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Saturday, November 29, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, May 01 2013)

  • [New York Times] Grizzlies Win 3rd Straight, 103-93 (Wed, 01 May 2013 08:21:40 GMT)
    The Memphis Grizzlies took advantage of Blake Griffin’s ankle injury and moved within a victory of clinching their first-round playoff series.    

  • [New York Times] Faried Leads Denver Past Warriors 107-100 (Wed, 01 May 2013 07:49:06 GMT)
    Kenneth Faried would like to punch a hole in Mark Jackson’s theory that he’s a dirty player who tried to hurt Stephen Curry.    

  • [New York Times] Slumping Clippers Seeking Solutions as Griffin Hobbles Out (Wed, 01 May 2013 07:48:36 GMT)
    The Los Angeles Clippers are sweating on the fitness of All-Star forward Blake Griffin, who aggravated an ankle injury during a first-round playoff loss to Memphis on Tuesday that leaves the team on the brink of elimination.    

  • [New York Times] Grizzlies Win 3rd Straight, 103-93 (Wed, 01 May 2013 06:53:44 GMT)
    The Memphis Grizzlies got down in the trenches again and grabbed home-court advantage from the Los Angeles Clippers.    

  • [New York Times] NBA Playoff Capsules (Wed, 01 May 2013 05:45:41 GMT)
    Kenneth Faried brought the energy and the Denver Nuggets rediscovered their toughness in time to stave off elimination Tuesday night with a 107-100 win over the Golden State Warriors.    

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Basketball: Greek Basketball Team Is Punished (Wed, 01 May 2013 05:04:32 GMT)
    Panathinaikos of Athens has been ordered to play four home games in the Euroleague behind closed doors and fined $131,000 for offenses during its quarterfinal series against Barcelona.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Lakers Want Howard To Remain With Team (Wed, 01 May 2013 04:31:45 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol and Coach Mike D’Antoni all believe Dwight Howard should stick with the Los Angeles Lakers.    

  • [New York Times] Faried Leads Nuggets Past Warriors 107-100 (Wed, 01 May 2013 04:28:02 GMT)
    Kenneth Faried put his foot down 48 hours after putting his size-16 sneaker through the wall in the visiting locker room in Oakland, sparking a debate about dirty play.    

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Why Burke Could Work in the N.B.A. (Wed, 01 May 2013 03:46:32 GMT)
    Trey Burke of Michigan does not have the size of Michael Carter-Williams or Marcus Smart, but his quickness and intelligence may help him make a mark in the N.B.A.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Playoffs â?? Celtics Rally Around Jason Collins (Wed, 01 May 2013 02:52:33 GMT)
    The Celtics gathered Tuesday for what could be their final practice of the 2012-13 season.    

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: N.B.A. Playoffs â?? Knicks Need the New J. R. Smith and Carmelo Anthony (Wed, 01 May 2013 01:27:28 GMT)
    This season, the Knicks have benefited from a more mature J.R. Smith and a more sharing Carmelo Anthony. Both went missing in Games 3 and 4 against Boston.    

  • [New York Daily News] J.R. takes another shot at Celts’ Terry (Wed, 01 May 2013 05:09:30 GMT)
    Jason Terry goes by the nickname “Jet,â? while the monikers Knicks fans will undoubtedly call the Boston Celtics guard will fall under the category of “parental discretion is advised.â?    

  • [New York Daily News] Smith: As Knick leader, Felton makes point (Wed, 01 May 2013 04:34:00 GMT)
    Felton got himself in top shape, and when the Knicks pulled off a sign and trade with Portland to bring him back this season, he knew it was the opportunity of a lifetime.    

  • [New York Daily News] Collins’ news is surprise to Kidd (Wed, 01 May 2013 03:30:35 GMT)
    Jason Collins regards Jason Kidd as such a trusted friend and teammate that he called the Knicks point guard before Collins revealed Monday that he is gay. “I was caught off guard,â? Kidd said on Tuesday.    

  • [New York Daily News] Kidd wins NBA sportsmanship award (Wed, 01 May 2013 00:09:00 GMT)
    Knicks guard Jason Kidd has become the first player to win back-to-back NBA sportsmanship awards. Kidd received 91 first-place votes from league players and 2,474 total points Tuesday to claim the Joe Dumars Trophy in his first season in New York.    

  • 81 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, May 01 2013)

    1. Hubert Davis

      Not going to lie, I have a little bit of irrational nervousness about tonight (just like I did before the series, when I was foolishly convinced the C’s were playing possum and would be themselves). I was wrong then and am wrong now, but I won’t feel confident until we’re up 18 in the 3rd!

    2. DCrockett17

      The big thing in my mind is that we really have to limit any 3rd scoring option for the Cs (KG, Bass, Terry). Without a 3rd option who can give them an efficient 15 to 20 points they just can’t score enough. Well, they got those points in game 4 by pushing the ball and we cooperated by not getting back. We can’t blame that on JR Smith or Melo. That’s on whoever was on the floor.

      For all the Melo talk, I was most disappointed in the two open triples Jason Terry got in the 2nd half just from pushing the ball. If we haul ass back, match up, and run him off those shots we almost certainly win. If anything, we should be quicker up the floor.

      The Cs are having a hell of a time scoring against our set D, even with all the switching (allowing them to supposedly dictate matchups). They got several cheap baskets and one-on-ones just by pushing the ball up the floor.

      I thought that at the time, and the point was illustrated beautifully on Posting and Toasting yesterday.

    3. Mulligan

      We’re now 6-2 vs the celtics this year and they’ve barely pulled out their 2 wins. I’m a Knicks fan, so of course I’m irrationally nervous, but we’ve got this one. Game 1 was atrocious and we still pulled it out. We owned them in 2 & 3 and barely lost 4 while missing our 2nd best scorer. It would take a phenomenal (thanks Amar’e) collapse to lose game 5 at home.

    4. GHenman

      We would have one game 4 if Melo made one of those 2 free throws late in the game. Celtics just don’t have enough firepower to keep up with us, especially with a rested and focused JR.

    5. bocker84

      Hubert Davis:
      Not going to lie, I have a little bit of irrational nervousness about tonight (just like I did before the series, when I was foolishly convinced the C’s were playing possum and would be themselves).I was wrong then and am wrong now, but I won’t feel confident until we’re up 18 in the 3rd!

      I am so with the rest of you on this. Good God… how miserable of an existence is it to be a Knicks fan? We basically obliterated them for the first three games, lose the fourth game in OT after our best player misses TWO free throws (and an overall horrible game)… and we still have this niggling feeling that something is going to go horribly wrong causing us to be the first team to lose a 3-0 advantage.

      I believe I speak for everyone when I say UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    6. marechal

      After 2004, I will never feel comfortable when my team is up 3-0 against a Boston team.

    7. thenamestsam

      Mulligan:
      We’re now 6-2 vs the celtics this year and they’ve barely pulled out their 2 wins. I’m a Knicks fan, so of course I’m irrationally nervous, but we’ve got this one. Game 1 was atrocious and we still pulled it out. We owned them in 2 & 3 and barely lost 4 while missing our 2nd best scorer. It would take a phenomenal (thanks Amar’e) collapse to lose game 5 at home.

      This is where I am with it too. Coming into the series I really thought the Celtics still had something left and while I fully expected the Knicks to win I thought it was going to be a long and challenging series. But I was wrong. This Celtics team just really doesn’t have it any more. They’ve looked for an extra gear and it just isn’t there.

      Game 4 we’re missing JR, it’s a must win for them, not critical for us, they storm out to a 20 point lead, everything was going their way. That game was perfectly set up to be a huge blow out for them, and they ended up needing us basically choking to hang on and win in OT. We’ve seen the same basic pattern in every game so far: They have no answer when we turn up the level of play. When we start playing our best we’re going to outscore them by 10+ points per quarter. I would be legitimately shocked if the Knicks won by less than 15 points tonight.

    8. GHenman

      marechal: After 2004, I will never feel comfortable when my team is up 3-0 against a Boston team.

      Man, why’d you bring that up? As bad as that was, this would be much more painful. I’d probably have to stop following the Knicks for a few years.

    9. flossy

      There is no doubt in my mind that the Knicks will turn the lights out on the Celtics tonight. Boston had to have every last thing break their way (Melo couldn’t throw it in the ocean, JR Smith suspended, home court advantage) just to win in overtime on Sunday. After a few days to rest up, with Earl back and the game on our floor, this one is all but in the books.

    10. Hubert Davis

      Hey, don’t kill me. I told you it was irrational. I channel all my nervousness in life onto sports teams. Helps me function in every other area of life but makes me a wreck during a Knicks/Giants/Yankees game.

      Of course we’re going to do it, I’m just nervous about it anyway.

      The funny thing about me is I simultaneously hold two beliefs that are diametrically opposed:

      1. I truly believe we will win the championship this year; we will beat Miami in game 7 on the road and win the title in 5 games on MSG. I am bizarrely confident in this.

      However…

      2. I always fear we’re going to lose the next game!

    11. Hubert Davis

      Speaking of the west, would anyone be confident betting against Memphis right now?

      I remember watching the 7 game of our season, in Memphis, thinking that would make one hell of a finals.

    12. Brian Cronin

      You better believe San Antonio is worried as hell about Memphis making it to the Finals against them.

      Memphis/OKC is a fascinating matchup, in that I really don’t know who would win. I think OKC actually likely still pulls it off, but it will be tough and Memphis could definitely make it past them. And if they do, then San Antonio becomes a great matchup for Memphis.

      Honestly, Memphis matches up well against the Heat and the Knicks, as well.

    13. Garson

      Brian Cronin:

      Honestly, Memphis matches up well against the Heat and the Knicks, as well.

      Memphis vs Heat is an amazing matchup… Grizz take advantage of Miamis Weakness at PG , PF and C with one of the top 1 on 1 defenders in Allen to slow down LBJ/Wade… would think Spoelstra goes big as Gasol vs Bosh would be a Joke!

    14. Hubert Davis

      I feel like we would handle Memphis well as long as we didn’t insist on having Melo guard Gasol like we did in game 7 of the season!

      I don’t see OKC winning another round. I think they may struggle to close out this series, even.

      Memphis really seems to have San Antonio’s number.

      I think they win the west.

    15. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      You better believe San Antonio is worried as hell about Memphis making it to the Finals against them.

      Memphis/OKC is a fascinating matchup, in that I really don’t know who would win. I think OKC actually likely still pulls it off, but it will be tough and Memphis could definitely make it past them. And if they do, then San Antonio becomes a great matchup for Memphis.

      Honestly, Memphis matches up well against the Heat and the Knicks, as well.

      Durant has gotten better, but he had a ton if trouble just 2 years ago getting open against a very physical Memphis defense. They’re going to play up on him and dare him to take it inside and finish past their bigs. You won’t see the same Durant as in these past 2 games, where th Rockets are just letting him dunk on the whole team every few possessions. The fact that OKC has struggled the past 3 games against Houston is a bad sign, I think there’s a decent chance Houston wins tonight and pushes the series to 7. When they’ve been focused on defense the thunder offense has been getting shut down.

    16. Juany8

      Hubert Davis:
      I feel like we would handle Memphis well as long as we didn’t insist on having Melo guard Gasol like we did in game 7 of the season!

      I don’t see OKC winning another round.I think they may struggle to close out this series, even.

      Memphis really seems to have San Antonio’s number.

      I think they win the west.

      Don’t count out the Clippers yet. Denver and LA are still very much alive in the series, and San Antonio has had some minor injury issues with Ginobli and Parker. The west is totally open right now, even Golden State can just jack up 3’s and keep up with anyone. The Rockets are fucked, but they can make OKC’s life hell for this series and they’re building for the future anyways.

    17. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, Golden State’s three point shooting is the great equalizer. When they shoot over 40% (like they did in Games 2-4), they can beat anyone.

      It is just unlikely that they keep that up for more than one round. Heck, as you note, they might not even keep it up for the rest of this round.

    18. thenamestsam

      Juany8: Don’t count out the Clippers yet. Denver and LA are still very much alive in the series, and San Antonio has had some minor injury issues with Ginobli and Parker. The west is totally open right now, even Golden State can just jack up 3?s and keep up with anyone. The Rockets are fucked, but they can make OKC’s life hell for this series and they’re building for the future anyways.

      Agreed on the Clippers. People are way too quick to declare these series over. People were already matching the Clippers up with the Spurs when they were up 2-0, and now 3 games later everyone is ready to pencil Memphis into the finals. I think Memphis will finish the job, but it’s far from a sure thing. The Clippers are still the more talented team I think. Del Negro is absolutely brutal, but you never know when even a shitty coach will make that one dumb luck adjustment that flips a series on its head (OKC-Spurs last year being a prominent example).

      I’d say wide open is basically the only way to describe the West right now.

    19. Brian Cronin

      The wide open nature of the West is why I think that the Knicks are, right now, the second best bet to make the NBA Finals.

      I’d put it something like 60% for the Heat, 35% for the Knicks, 3% for Pacers and 2% for Bulls and 30% for Spurs and Thunder each, 20% for Grizzlies, 10% for Clippers, 5% for Nuggets and Warriors each

    20. flossy

      Memphis could be a latter-day ’04 Pistons, (in fact, the Grizzlies had the 17th best offense and 2nd best defense, and Detroit was 18th/2nd that year).

      But those kind of teams are the exception. I honestly think they don’t have the top-level talent to seriously contend, and their offense doesn’t have the right kind of role players (no shooters, no elite shot creators outside the low post) to make up for not having a LeBron, Durant, Melo, CP3 etc. kind of player.

      The West is wide open though, thanks to a glut of talented teams who have all been shaken out of their comfort zones a bit by injuries. But if Memphis somehow comes out of the West, they’ll get their doors blown off by the Heat (and I would take the Knicks against them too).

    21. er

      Brian Cronin: You better believe San Antonio is worried as hell about Memphis making it to the Finals against them. Memphis/OKC is a fascinating matchup, in that I really don’t know who would win. I think OKC actually likely still pulls it off, but it will be tough and Memphis could definitely make it past them. And if they do, then San Antonio becomes a great matchup for Memphis.Honestly, Memphis matches up well against the Heat and the Knicks, as well.

      yea okc has NO chance against the Grizz. Prince, Allen, Arthur,Davis are light years ahead of Parsons,Delfino and Garcia on D

    22. flossy

      Brian Cronin:
      The wide open nature of the West is why I think that the Knicks are, right now, the second best bet to make the NBA Finals.

      I’d put it something like 60% for the Heat, 35% for the Knicks, 3% for Pacers and 2% for Bulls and 30% for Spurs and Thunder each, 20% for Grizzlies, 10% for Clippers, 5% for Nuggets and Warriors each

      I think that’s pretty generous for the Knicks. I think they have a chance, but let’s be honest, it’s like 90-10. But if you think about what the Heat have done this year, that’s still a good place to be. No other team in the East has a prayer (unless some serious injury stuff happens).

    23. er

      flossy: Memphis could be a latter-day ’04 Pistons, (in fact, the Grizzlies had the 17th best offense and 2nd best defense, and Detroit was 18th/2nd that year). But those kind of teams are the exception. I honestly think they don’t have the top-level talent to seriously contend, and their offense doesn’t have the right kind of role players (no shooters, no elite shot creators outside the low post) to make up for not having a LeBron, Durant, Melo, CP3 etc. kind of player.The West is wide open though, thanks to a glut of talented teams who have all been shaken out of their comfort zones a bit by injuries. But if Memphis somehow comes out of the West, they’ll get their doors blown off by the Heat (and I would take the Knicks against them too).

      who do you have if its mem vs SA?

    24. flossy

      er: who do you have if its mem vs SA?

      That would be a great series. I’d give the Spurs a slight edge if Manu can play more minutes, but it’s an interesting match up.

    25. marechal

      When did Doc become such a whiner? His new comment: “Just like the Knicks probably shouldn’t use the reason we won is b/c JR Smith didn’t play. But they did.”

      Right. How about not having Amar’e?

    26. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      Yeah, Golden State’s three point shooting is the great equalizer. When they shoot over 40% (like they did in Games 2-4), they can beat anyone.

      It is just unlikely that they keep that up for more than one round. Heck, as you note, they might not even keep it up for the rest of this round.

      It only has to be one round though lol, San Antonio gets knocked out and all of the sudden Memphis waltzes into the Finals as an eighth seed. Or ginobli gets injured, the warriors squeak by a hobbled spurs team, and then Curry starts making enough step back 3’s to challange whoever makes it to the WCF. They have the worst chances sure, but anyone who remembers how Curry got famous in college knows that dude is the best shooter ever. It’s just amazing how much better he’s gotten as a passer and defender, he was pegged as a shooting guard in a point guard’s body.

    27. Hubert Davis

      Juany8: Don’t count out the Clippers yet.

      You should say: “don’t count out Chris Paul just yet”. I counted out the rest of those guys after game 3. Griffin isn’t ready for this stuff, injured or not. They’ve looked out of their league for 3 straight games now. Can Chris Paul pull off a miracle? Maybe. God bless him if he does.

      That’s the funny thing about the playoffs: a team like the Clips looked so formidable in the regular season but right now I’m amazed that Paul carried these guys to 56 wins.

      How hilarious is it that ESPN ran at article a few weeks ago saying he was better than Carmelo Anthony *right now*?

    28. Brian Cronin

      I think that’s pretty generous for the Knicks. I think they have a chance, but let’s be honest, it’s like 90-10. But if you think about what the Heat have done this year, that’s still a good place to be. No other team in the East has a prayer (unless some serious injury stuff happens).

      Even the best teams should only have a 65/35 advantage in any given series, so when you toss in the fact that the Bulls could theoretically beat the Heat, and I don’t think 60% is too low.

      But yeah, fair enough, the Knicks should probably be around 30%, since the Pacers should have a better shot then what I’m giving them.

    29. Brian Cronin

      It only has to be one round though lol, San Antonio gets knocked out and all of the sudden Memphis waltzes into the Finals as an eighth seed. Or ginobli gets injured, the warriors squeak by a hobbled spurs team, and then Curry starts making enough step back 3?s to challange whoever makes it to the WCF. They have the worst chances sure, but anyone who remembers how Curry got famous in college knows that dude is the best shooter ever. It’s just amazing how much better he’s gotten as a passer and defender, he was pegged as a shooting guard in a point guard’s body.

      That’s what amazes me about Durant, really, is that he can shoot threes like Curry (not as good as Curry, of course, but that similar “if I get a speck of daylight, I’m shooting it and odds are I’m making it”) while having the ability to also dunk over four players in transition. It’s a rare skill set.

    30. Hubert Davis

      Brian Cronin:
      The wide open nature of the West is why I think that the Knicks are, right now, the second best bet to make the NBA Finals.

      I’d put it something like 60% for the Heat, 35% for the Knicks, 3% for Pacers and 2% for Bulls and 30% for Spurs and Thunder each, 20% for Grizzlies, 10% for Clippers, 5% for Nuggets and Warriors each

      I’d probably go 85% Heat, 13% Knicks, 1.999% Pacers, 0.001% Field in the East.

    31. Hubert Davis

      Hubert Davis:
      How hilarious is it that ESPN ran at article a few weeks ago saying he was better than Carmelo Anthony *right now*?

      “He” being Blake Griffin.

    32. jon abbey

      marechal:
      When did Doc become such a whiner? His new comment: “Just like the Knicks probably shouldn’t use the reason we won is b/c JR Smith didn’t play. But they did.”

      Right. How about not having Amar’e?

      good point, Boston is definitely being hurt by us not having Amar’e. :)

    33. er

      Brian Cronin: That’s what amazes me about Durant, really, is that he can shoot threes like Curry (not as good as Curry, of course, but that similar “if I get a speck of daylight, I’m shooting it and odds are I’m making it”) while having the ability to also dunk over four players in transition. It’s a rare skill set.

      Hes like lebron, not the same obviously but both guys have rare physical and skill packages. Lebron , the athletic frieght train who plays pg in his spare time. And KD 6’11 with a 7’6 wingspan who plays like a 2 guard with a great jumpshot and all of the athletic ability. Crazy

    34. Hubert Davis

      marechal:
      When did Doc become such a whiner? His new comment: “Just like the Knicks probably shouldn’t use the reason we won is b/c JR Smith didn’t play. But they did.”

      Right. How about not having Amar’e?

      In what context was this said?

    35. marechal

      Sorry, missed part of the quote. He was basically saying Boston should not complain about not having Rondo, while implying (or stating) that the Knicks have claimed they lost Game 4 due to no JR (which I don’t think anyone in the team did, other than JR himself).

    36. er

      Hubert Davis: In what context was this said?

      i mean its true though. They can say it wouldnt have been so easy with Rondo, which i wouldnt have any issue with

    37. DS

      The day they give out the Citizenship Award is an off day for awards. I wonder if Denver being (sort of) on the ropes helps Woodson against “the favorite,” Karl for COY.

      Sucks that the All-Rookie Team is all about offense to the extent where Prigs won’t get serious consideration for 2nd team, but not about offense to the extent where Cope, the #9 scoring rook could get serious consideration either. ‘Melo 2nd All-NBA and J.R. 6MOY doesn’t feel like enough recognition for this team.

    38. DS

      Brian Cronin:
      All the awards were voted on before the playoffs began.

      I don’t think I’d ever heard that, but it makes sense. That’s lame.

    39. flossy

      DS: I don’t think I’d ever heard that, but it makes sense.That’s lame.

      COTY is a regular season award and Karl still deserves to win it. With 57 wins Denver had the best record in their franchise history, and they did it without a single All-Star or All-NBA player.

    40. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      flossy: COTY is a regular season award and Karl still deserves to win it.With 57 wins Denver had the best record in their franchise history, and they did it without a single All-Star or All-NBA player.

      So All-Stars and All-NBA teams are indicative of high player value? Come on, dude. Those awards are grandfathered in each and every year.

      Allen Iverson made 7 NBA teams and 11 All-Star games, by my quick count. Do you really think he’s that good a player for that long?

    41. jon abbey

      yeah, awards based on the regular season are especially hilarious/meaningless in the NBA, where a lot of the league is still in second gear in April. the best is when the alleged MVP proceeds to get destroyed by the actual best player in the playoffs, a la David Robinson/Olajuwon, Malone/Jordan, or Rose/LeBron.

    42. lavor postell

      jon abbey:
      yeah, awards based on the regular season are especially hilarious/meaningless in the NBA, where a lot of the league is still in second gear in April. the best is when the alleged MVP proceeds to get destroyed by the actual best player in the playoffs, a la David Robinson/Olajuwon, Malone/Jordan, or Rose/LeBron.

      Olajuwon really was something else in those years. A seriously underrated player in the history of the game. I will never forget him schooling Robinson and Shaq in those playoffs.

    43. Juany8

      jon abbey:
      yeah, awards based on the regular season are especially hilarious/meaningless in the NBA, where a lot of the league is still in second gear in April. the best is when the alleged MVP proceeds to get destroyed by the actual best player in the playoffs, a la David Robinson/Olajuwon, Malone/Jordan, or Rose/LeBron.

      To be fair I don’t know that Lebron counts considering he shit his pants in the Finals the next series. If anything Dirk should have won that year, he was far and away the best player in that playoffs.

    44. airchibundo507

      all the more reason for the league to recognize playoff MVP; that award would be held in higher regard than regular season MVP

    45. nicos

      flossy: COTY is a regular season award and Karl still deserves to win it.With 57 wins Denver had the best record in their franchise history, and they did it without a single All-Star or All-NBA player.

      I don’t know- Pretty much everybody had Denver winning 50+ games so it’s not like they overachieved that much esp. since outside of Gallo at the end of the year they didn’t get killed by injuries. The Knicks had 10(!) guys who weren’t on the roster last year play at least 18 games and all of them besides Sheed and Camby started at least 11 games. Plus they had significant injury issues and still grabbed the two seed so I’d put Woodson ahead of Karl. I’d put Pop and Thibs above him too.

    46. Kahnzy

      nicos: I don’t know- Pretty much everybody had Denver winning 50+ games so it’s not like they overachieved that much esp. since outside of Gallo at the end of the year they didn’t get killed by injuries. The Knicks had 10(!) guys who weren’t on the roster last year play at least 18 games and all of them besides Sheed and Camby started at least 11 games. Plus they had significant injury issues and still grabbed the two seed so I’d put Woodson ahead of Karl.I’d put Pop and Thibs above him too.

      Pop could win it every year. I think Thibs is a bit overrated though. Sure he gets his guys playing hard and you could argue that that group overachieved a bit this year…but he manages to do these things at the expense of his player’s health. He runs them into the ground, then when they go down he just does it again with the replacement guy.

      Pop, on the other hand, gives up (mostly) meaningless regular season games to extend the careers of his most important players. NBA coaches are, generally, a very short-sighted lot. Maybe they have to be, what with the whole “you only hire a coach so you can fire him” mentality of the league. Whatever setup Pop has with the Spurs allows him to actually think ahead; something most NBA coaches either can’t or won’t do for whatever reason(s).

    47. Hubert Davis

      Anybody else going tonight? I picked up a pair of bar stool seats at face.

    48. er

      Kahnzy: Pop could win it every year. I think Thibs is a bit overrated though. Sure he gets his guys playing hard and you could argue that that group overachieved a bit this year…but he manages to do these things at the expense of his player’s health. He runs them into the ground, then when they go down he just does it again with the replacement guy. Pop, on the other hand, gives up (mostly) meaningless regular season games to extend the careers of his most important players. NBA coaches are, generally, a very short-sighted lot. Maybe they have to be, what with the whole “you only hire a coach so you can fire him” mentality of the league. Whatever setup Pop has with the Spurs allows him to actually think ahead; something most NBA coaches either can’t or won’t do for whatever reason(s).

      Pop is the man. He should have a few more COYs than he has fa sure

    49. DS

      There was a Times article on Thibs’s work ethic about a year ago that made me respect him a great deal.

    50. thenamestsam

      Hubert Davis:
      Anybody else going tonight?I picked up a pair of bar stool seats at face.

      I’ll be there. Very excited.

      Kahnzy:

      Pop, on the other hand, gives up (mostly) meaningless regular season games to extend the careers of his most important players. NBA coaches are, generally, a very short-sighted lot. Maybe they have to be, what with the whole “you only hire a coach so you can fire him” mentality of the league. Whatever setup Pop has with the Spurs allows him to actually think ahead; something most NBA coaches either can’t or won’t do for whatever reason(s).

      I think this is really the point with Pop. His greatness transcends something like CotY which often boils down to which team was most underrated by the media at the start of the year. If, as most media members seem to, you base your CotY vote on just achievement minus your own expectations then Pop is never in great position to win it because everyone knows his team is going to be good every year. The fact that everyone knows that is the true testament to Pop. CotY doesn’t tell you much about coaching quality. A lot of terrible coaches have won them and a lot of really good coaches haven’t. You really need to assess coaching on a different time scale. Coach of the half decade would be a more telling award perhaps, and Pop might have a couple of those.

      One guy not mentioned in this thread who I really think deserves CotY votes is Spoelstra. Obviously he has the talent to work with but it was far from obvious one year ago today whether that talent would ever fit quite right. Now they’re a seamless juggernaut. 67 wins, 27 game winning streak. Deserving of serious credit in my eyes.

    51. PC

      airchibundo507: all the more reason for the league to recognize playoff MVP; that award would be held in higher regard than regular season MVP

      They do. Finals MVP. The MVP of the playoffs has to win the thing ,right?

    52. thenamestsam

      PC: They do. Finals MVP.The MVP of the playoffs has to win the thing ,right?

      Yeah this is how I feel about it too. If there was a Playoffs MVP it would go to the best player on the winning team 99% of the time. Since finals MVP already goes to the best player on the winning team 95% of the time there really isn’t any need for the other award. It would go to the same player in almost every case. In the last 20+ years the only one that I think almost certainly would have turned out differently is 2007 when Parker won Finals MVP, but Duncan was clearly more important overall and probably would have gotten Playoffs MVP. Other than that you’re just making another trophy for the Finals MVP to lug around, and their arms are usually full as it is.

    53. llcoolbp

      Thibs was a former assitant under JVG during the much loved late 90’s teams, for that he gets a lifetime pass in my book. Pop is in another league. A true chessmaster. Woodson really did well this year juggling all the injuries and basically running a unigue 2 (sometimes 3) point guard offense. He deserves credit. COY should be between woodson, Pop, and Thibs. Karl’s team already had high expectations coming into the year. No doubt he’s a great coach, but the other 3 were a little better this year, IMHO.

    54. llcoolbp

      thenamestsam: I’ll be there. Very excited. I think this is really the point with Pop. His greatness transcends something like CotY which often boils down to which team was most underrated by the media at the start of the year. If, as most media members seem to, you base your CotY vote on just achievement minus your own expectations then Pop is never in great position to win it because everyone knows his team is going to be good every year. The fact that everyone knows that is the true testament to Pop. CotY doesn’t tell you much about coaching quality. A lot of terrible coaches have won them and a lot of really good coaches haven’t. You really need to assess coaching on a different time scale. Coach of the half decade would be a more telling award perhaps, and Pop might have a couple of those. One guy not mentioned in this thread who I really think deserves CotY votes is Spoelstra. Obviously he has the talent to work with but it was far from obvious one year ago today whether that talent would ever fit quite right. Now they’re a seamless juggernaut. 67 wins, 27 game winning streak. Deserving of serious credit in my eyes.

      begrudgingly, good point about spoelstra. Grantland did a long piece on him during the offseason. He seems like a good guy also. It’s just so hard for me to like/praise anyone associated with the heat.

    55. llcoolbp

      anyway, super pumped about tonights game. I’m stuck at work, but will likely catch the second half. I’ll need the game thread to keep me up to date.

    56. ruruland

      nicos: I don’t know- Pretty much everybody had Denver winning 50+ games so it’s not like they overachieved that much esp. since outside of Gallo at the end of the year they didn’t get killed by injuries. The Knicks had 10(!) guys who weren’t on the roster last year play at least 18 games and all of them besides Sheed and Camby started at least 11 games. Plus they had significant injury issues and still grabbed the two seed so I’d put Woodson ahead of Karl.I’d put Pop and Thibs above him too.

      The Knicks led the league in games missed due to injury ahead of like 5 lotto teams, contrary to what MFC wrote earlier in the year ( and I like a lot of what MFC writes here, he does a great job)

    57. Hubert Davis

      I’d probably vote for Spoelstra, too.

      4Q of G4 is on NBATV right now. Can’t believe we didn’t sweep these guys.

      Oh well, will be worth it to serenade them home tonight.

    58. flossy

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: So All-Stars and All-NBA teams are indicative of high player value? Come on, dude. Those awards are grandfathered in each and every year.

      Allen Iverson made 7 NBA teams and 11 All-Star games, by my quick count. Do you really think he’s that good a player for that long?

      They’re somewhat indicative, yes, although obviously imperfect (as is every metric!).

      The lack of all-stars is basically another way of saying the team doesn’t have the kind of established, high-usage scorers around whom you can design an offense and surround with role players to produce a good team the conventional sense. Ty Lawson is the closest they have, but he’d have to increase his usage by about 50% to approach the scoring responsibilities of someone like Anthony or Durant. Players like that are crutches that coaches can fall back on, but Karl managed to take a large group of medium-usage role players, distribute their responsibilities quite well, design an offense that played to their strengths and masked their weaknesses, and win more games than the Nuggets had ever won before. I think that speaks well of his coaching during the regular season.

    59. ruruland

      flossy: They’re somewhat indicative, yes, although obviously imperfect (as is every metric!).

      The lack of all-stars is basically another way of saying the team doesn’t have the kind of established, high-usage scorers around whom you can design an offense and surround with role players to produce a good team the conventional sense.Ty Lawson is the closest they have, but he’d have to increase his usage by about 50% to approach the scoring responsibilities of someone like Anthony or Durant.Players like that are crutches that coaches can fall back on, but Karl managed to take a large group of medium-usage role players, distribute their responsibilities quite well, design an offense that played to their strengths and masked their weaknesses, and win more games than the Nuggets had ever won before.I think that speaks well of his coaching during the regular season.

      Absolutely. I don’t think there are more than 5 coaches in the league who could coax 57 wins out of that team.

      I don’t think they could be successful playing any other way.

    60. thenamestsam

      flossy: Players like that are crutches that coaches can fall back on

      I think crutch is a very good way to put it. Having a player who can eat up 35% of your possessions in a fairly efficient fashion while on the floor like Carmelo Anthony makes a coach’s job significantly easier. A large percentage of the Knicks offensive possessions involve a plan as simple as give the ball to Melo on the post/elbow and let him attack or draw a double and kick. All those simple possessions take a burden off a coach. Not trying to discredit Woody in any way, but I do think Karl’s regular season performance given the makeup of his team is very impressive. Their style may not be well suited to the playoffs (although I really wish we had gotten a chance to see what they could do with a healthy Gallo) but getting them to 57 wins and a 3 seed in the West is a very impressive achievement.

    61. jon abbey

      ruruland: The Knicks led the league in games missed due to injury ahead of like 5 lotto teams, contrary to what MFC wrote earlier in the year ( and I like a lot of what MFC writes here, he does a great job)

      well, that’s not really fair unless you analyze the numbers more, since they intentionally shuttled in a bunch of antique big men hoping one or two would stick.

    62. Mars

      i need to see a chandler martin front court today. i understand woodson likes melo at the 4 but we need a traditional line up with melo at the 3 sometimes.

    63. jon abbey

      coaches are so player dependent, it’s pretty hard to judge most of them in a vacuum. even the universally loved Popovich has been lucky to have his career almost totally overlap with top 10 alltime player Tim Duncan. the year before Duncan got to SA, the Spurs under Popovich went 17-47. I can’t imagine a Thibodeau team with that bad of a record, although I totally agree he burns his guys out a bit unnecessarily.

    64. ruruland

      jon abbey: well, that’s not really fair unless you analyze the numbers more, since they intentionally shuttled in a bunch of antique big men hoping one or two would stick.

      Perhaps. Looking forward to your posts when you realize how important Amar’e is to the team in a few weeks ;)

    65. jon abbey

      ruruland: Perhaps. Looking forward to your posts when you realize how important Amar’e is to the team in a few weeks ;)

      heh, we’ll see. GS looking better immediately without D-Lee is not helping your case there. :)

    66. Kahnzy

      Hubert Davis:
      Hope you’re all wearing black, too.Funeral tonight.

      I would love to see the Knicks postgame press conference with all of them in black. JR should have a R.I.P Terry shirt or something. Would be totally classless, but hilariously so.

    67. Kahnzy

      yellowboy90: I see your 40+ and raise you a triple double.

      I see your triple double and raise you 64 points+, breaking Jordan’s playoff game record (we don’t have to be serious with these predictions, do we?)

      In all seriousness, I want to see Melo atone for game 4 as much as anyone; I just hope he either does it within the flow of the offense and not force it like he did Sunday, or has a game like his 50 in Miami at which point you don’t need any offensive flow.

    68. Juany8

      jon abbey:
      coaches are so player dependent, it’s pretty hard to judge most of them in a vacuum. even the universally loved Popovich has been lucky to have his career almost totally overlap with top 10 alltime player Tim Duncan. the year before Duncan got to SA, the Spurs under Popovich went 17-47. I can’t imagine a Thibodeau team with that bad of a record, although I totally agree he burns his guys out a bit unnecessarily.

      They lost Robinson and tanked. So it’s not a bad mark on Poppivich I would say

    69. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      flossy: They’re somewhat indicative, yes, although obviously imperfect (as is every metric!).

      The lack of all-stars is basically another way of saying the team doesn’t have the kind of established, high-usage scorers around whom you can design an offense and surround with role players to produce a good team the conventional sense.Ty Lawson is the closest they have, but he’d have to increase his usage by about 50% to approach the scoring responsibilities of someone like Anthony or Durant.Players like that are crutches that coaches can fall back on, but Karl managed to take a large group of medium-usage role players, distribute their responsibilities quite well, design an offense that played to their strengths and masked their weaknesses, and win more games than the Nuggets had ever won before.I think that speaks well of his coaching during the regular season.

      Confirmation bias all over the place.

      “A team without a high-usage scorer cannot win 57 games. The Nuggets won 57 games. Therefore, the players are not responsible for their output; George Karl is.”

      It’s a tenuous argument at best. The ’04 and ’05 Pistons did the same thing. ’07 Spurs had 3 scorers who shared the volume equally.

      I know ruruland will tell me that I need to watch a basketball game, but the argument always fits the point of view…

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