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Wednesday, August 20, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Mar 13 2013)

  • [New York Times] Heat Streak Now 19, Top Hawks 98-81 (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 07:10:05 GMT)
    Only a few minutes after the Miami Heat’s winning streak reached 19 games, Erik Spoelstra laid down the next challenge.

  • [New York Times] Gasol Has 20 and Grizzlies Beat Blazers 102-97 (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 05:00:42 GMT)
    Zach Randolph returned from an ankle injury with 19 points and 10 rebounds, and the Memphis Grizzlies won their fifth straight game with a 102-97 victory over the Portland Trail Blazers on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Gasol Has 20 and Grizzlies Beat Blazers 102-97 (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 04:54:48 GMT)
    Zach Randolph returned from an ankle injury with 19 points and 10 rebounds, and the Memphis Grizzlies won their fifth straight game with a 102-97 victory over the Portland Trail Blazers on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] As Streak Gets to 19, Heat Can’t Hide They Are Loving It (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 04:24:35 GMT)
    The Miami Heat are one win away from becoming just the fourth team in the history of the NBA to enjoy 20 straight victories in a single season and try as they might, they just can’t quite hide the fact that it really is great fun beating all comers.

  • [New York Times] Dwight Howard Draws Boos, and Many Fouls (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 04:23:50 GMT)
    In Dwight Howard’s return to Orlando, he exploded for 39 points andALL 16 rebounds and the Lakers rolled to a win over the Magic.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Wade Scores 23 Points to Lead Heat to 19th Straight Win (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:45:10 GMT)
    After beating the Hawks on Tuesday, the Heat will attempt to become the fourth team to win at least 20 consecutive games in the same season on Wednesday at Philadelphia.

  • [New York Times] Nets 108, Hornets 98: This Time, Nets Beat a Lowly Opponent (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:37:31 GMT)
    A day after a dismal performance in defeat to Philadelphia, the Nets rebounded Tuesday with a rout of another last-place team, the New Orleans Hornets.

  • [New York Times] Howard Scores 39, Leads Lakers Past Magic 106-97 (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:21:46 GMT)
    Dwight Howard endured the worst reception of his NBA career on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Heat Streak Now 19, Top Hawks 98-81 (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:18:40 GMT)
    Standing at his locker after yet another victory, LeBron James finally acknowledged the obvious.

  • [New York Times] Mavs Beat Bucks 115-108 for 4th Straight Win (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:55:19 GMT)
    Vince Carter hit three key 3-pointers in the fourth quarter and scored 23 points off the bench as the Dallas Mavericks won their fourth straight with a 115-108 victory over the Milwaukee Bucks on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Rubio’s Triple-Double Lifts Wolves Over Spurs (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:33:45 GMT)
    Ricky Rubio had his first career triple-double with 21 points, 13 rebounds and 12 assists, leading the Minnesota Timberwolves to a 107-83 victory over the San Antonio Spurs on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Brook Lopez Helps Nets Beat Hornets, 108-98 (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:31:15 GMT)
    Brook Lopez scored 26 points and had a big dunk over twin brother Robin, Deron Williams added 21 points and 13 assists, and the Brooklyn Nets beat the New Orleans Hornets 108-98 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: N.B.A. Says Smith Shouldn’t Have Been Ejected From Monday’s Game (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:08:51 GMT)
    The league downgraded the flagrant foul assessed to J.R. Smith, to a “penalty oneâ? from a “penalty two,â? which triggers an automatic ejection.

  • [New York Times] Anthony â??Probably Probable’ Against Denver (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:06:32 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony’s knee continued to bother him as he prepared to play â?? perhaps â?? in Denver since forcing a trade from the Nuggets two years ago.

  • [New York Times] Cavs, Without Irving, Hold Off Wizards 95-90 (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 01:51:54 GMT)
    Dion Waiters scored 20 points, Alonzo Gee added 17 and the Cleveland Cavaliers held off a late run to beat the Washington Wizards 95-90 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Henderson Lifts Bobcats Over Celtics 100-74 (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 01:43:05 GMT)
    Gerald Henderson had a career-high 35 points, and the Charlotte Bobcats snapped a 10-game losing streak with a 100-74 win over the Boston Celtics on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Post] Back in Denver, Anthony mulls having knee drained (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:39:15 -0500)
    DENVER â?? The boos tonight will be heard from the Mile High City all the way to Boulder. Carmelo Anthony is back in town, but it couldn’t have come at a more depressing time for him.
    The most important D-word Anthony uttered last night after practice wasn’t Denver but…

  • [New York Post] Time running out for Woody to turn around his Knicks (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:32:21 -0500)
    DENVER â?? There is an irony to the grumbling, of course, and Mike Woodson understands it better than anyone. If it’s too simplistic to say that changing coaches can automatically change a team’s fortunes â?¦ well, we’ve seen different in our town.
    We’ve seen the Nets get a…

  • [New York Post] Knicks guard J.R. Smith has flagrant foul downgraded (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 01:49:55 -0500)
    DENVER â?? J.R. Smith was vindicated Tuesday when his flagrant 2 foul during the Knicks’ Golden State game Monday â?? an automatic ejection â?? was reversed to a lighter flagrant. But all that means is he will get some money back.
    Smith, as well as Carmelo Anthony, makes his first homecoming since…

  • [New York Daily News] Lawrence: Melo might turn out to be too Knicked up (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 06:33:30 GMT)
    Back in New York, the only thing that matters isn’t the reception Carmelo Anthony gets here when he plays his old team for the first time since he decided he needed to get out of town. Now, it’s all about whether Anthony, on a bum knee, can get the Knicks as far as he once got the Nuggets in the playoffs.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo’s knee could make for painful Denver return (Wed, 13 Mar 2013 06:32:44 GMT)
    There will be jeers and plenty of anger directed at Carmelo Anthony, who returns to Denver to face the Nuggets for the first time since forcing a trade to the Knicks 25 months ago. And yet, walking into a hostile environment is the least of Anthony’s worries.

  • 51 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Mar 13 2013)

    1. Frank O.

      I think it’s utterly stupid that they play Melo at all.
      If they don’t feel they understand his injury, shut him down.
      You have too much invested in him; the Knicks have a terrible history in managing knees; and he’s not very good with one leg.
      Every team deals with injuries. This team won’t collapse and they will make the playoffs.
      They won’t get to the finals or even the east championship probably.
      So shut him down.
      Further, this season, oddly enough, the Knicks benefited from injuries in that they learned a lot about their bench. Let the guys play without Melo until his knee is good.
      And if we make the playoffs, which we will, he might be back, hopefully, to himself and maybe they win a series.
      But playing him in Denver is vanity. He needs to rest that knee, see some more people about it and get that well. He doesn’t need to be proving anything about NY and Denver.
      Move on.
      This guys is too important to the franchise to risk his knee.

    2. Nick C.

      It’s colossally stupid. Essentially this team for the next few years is built around him and Chandler. Felton and Shumpert are the sidekicks. JR may or may not stick around. That’s it. Other than that its Prigs, Novak, Cope and White who are to date 9-16th men. It all goes back to what one or more than one people have harped on about the short sightedness of this franchise and its ownership.

    3. stratomatic

      IMO Melo should not play. The last thing we need is permanent damage to his knee where he loses value.

      Quite honestly, I don’t even think it’s going to have a major impact on the team. If Amare was healthy and could be the #1 scorer, I KNOW it wouldn’t have much impact on the team.

      I’ve been tracking the Knicks performance with Melo in/out adjusted for home/away, strength of opponent, days rest etc… and he simply does not have a huge impact on the team’s results. That was also true of him in Denver. Fans, the media, and perhaps even basketball management wildly overestimate the value of scoring, shot creation, tough shot making etc..

      High usage/high efficiency scoring is incredibly difficult to replace, but not all scoring is tough to replace. Also, given that Melo is basically “average” at almost every other facet of the game, the loss is minor. He’s not a Durant, James, or Harden caliber scorer. He’s not even a Kobe/Wade caliber scorer and those guys do a LOT of other things better than Melo also.

      The smartest thing they could ever do (which won’t happen in 100 years) is get him healthy and trade him.

      The best hope for the Knicks is that he sees that he can’t win a championship here with so many other key pieces hurt or on the downside, realizes he will get the blame for the failure, and decides he wants out early. The faster this team rebuilds, the faster we’ll have HOPE for more than a 1st or 2nd round exit.

    4. d-mar

      I honestly don’t know why Melo would want to play in this game anyway. Based on the game against GS, it’s obvious he can’t perform at a high level, and it’s likely he’ll stink up the joint in Denver in front of a very happy bunch of fans.

    5. Frank O.

      I’m not into Melo bashing. He is what he is. I think the greatest problem is how the Knicks and others have used him.
      He’s been playing out of position all year because Woodson thought he created a mismatch at the four. But Melo has been creating mismatches at the 3 his entire career. He’s bigger and stronger than most three, and he dishes out pain, rather than absorbing it. And lord knows Tyson needs some back up at the four.
      Too many teams fall in love with Melo’s ability to get his own shot, but as has been pointed out near constantly since he arrived, his stats suffer for this ability.
      If the Knicks would balance out usage among some key players, and let Melo score within the offense – sure, feature him on the block as the three and let him bully ball – his efficiency would improve hugely.
      In the end, you can’t blame Melo for being what teams seem to want him to be. They ask him to score. They ask him to facilitate. They ask him to take over when they fail to get into their offense. They ask him to run the team when our guards are unable.
      All of this makes him look bad on the books.
      Play him at the 3. Put him out there with a Tyson, Camby, Melo front. And even work in a guy who can score like Copeland. Watch what happens.
      Meanwhile, let him get healthy. He doesn’t let the team down doing that. He let’s them down if he gets a more serious injury and can’t play for a long time, or is so diminished that he isn’t himself any more.
      But my point is in my admittedly inexperienced assessment, he’s used all wrong.

    6. thenamestsam

      d-mar:
      I honestly don’t know why Melo would want to play in this game anyway. Based on the game against GS, it’s obvious he can’t perform at a high level, and it’s likely he’ll stink up the joint in Denver in front of a very happy bunch of fans.

      I mean I think it’s pretty obvious why Melo would want to play. It’s silly to say based on one game that he can’t perform at a high level. I mean he had a terrible game and he certainly didn’t look healthy, but even if he’s not healthy he’s still going to believe that he’s capable of putting up a big game and leading his team to victory and of course, for him, to do it against his old team would mean a lot. Melo wouldn’t be Melo if his thought process went like “Well I sucked last game so I’m probably going to suck tonight and then my ex-fans are going to boo me, and basically I might as well sit out”.

      But from the Knicks perspective they really should be very careful. Treating this game as anything more than a normal regular season game is just prideful and while I understand the temptation will be great for Melo to give in to that as an individual, the organization should be capable of making more far-sighted decisions. If he’s not healthy he should sit. Honestly, the seeding in the East isn’t that important at this point. The difference between playing Atlanta and Boston is much, much smaller than the difference between having a healthy Melo or an unhealthy Melo.

    7. Frank O.

      And, btw, for all the hammering D’Antoni took here for his perceived inflexibility, this board has been far less critical of Woodson’s rigid adherence to some truly flawed experiments:
      1. Melo at the four as noted above, and playing him too many minutes.
      2. Overusing JR, who while he has had moments, has generally hurt the team through his very high volume low efficiency scoring.
      3. His under utilization of Stat with Tyson and Melo so that they could learn to play together.
      4. Underplaying Prigs
      5. Starting two empty jersey’s and conceding the 1st quarter almost every game.
      6. Not giving Copeland, a pretty efficient scorer, more minutes to help him develop.

      D’Antoni also got killed here for his play calling, but I think we’ve seen enough of Woodson to know he is perhaps as bad, if not worse.
      Add to that that his offense is boring and unimaginative and entirely predictable.
      And he continues the Knicks trend over the past decade of being totally unprepared game to game to stop or contain the other team’s most dangerous element.
      I like Woodson. I think he has some strengths. But I don’t feel he has managed this group very well, and a lot of the knocks on him prior to coming to the Knicks continue to be knocks.

    8. thenamestsam

      Frank O.:
      And, btw, for all the hammering D’Antoni took here for his perceived inflexibility, this board has been far less critical of Woodson’s rigid adherence to some truly flawed experiments:

      I think there’s a lot to criticize Woodson for, as you rightly point out. I’d add to the list the fact that the Knicks defense has gotten worse overall since he took over, which is damning considering both Dantoni’s reputation and the fact that the worst habit of this defense (the stupid switching) seems to be Woody’s choice.

      But the bottom line is that the overall record since he started is still pretty damn good. The Knicks are 56-29 in the regular season since he started, which is just less than a 55 win pace. Given the injuries over that time period, I think that’s pretty good. It’s about what you’d expect given the talent on hand, and with the exception of a few coaches it’s hard to get more than that from an NBA coach. Given all that, I think his choices are still rightfully being given some deference. If the Knicks disappoint the rest of the season the grumbles will start to grow in volume.

    9. johnlocke

      Frank O. with all due respect were you around for the last game thread. A prayer offering was sent up to open Woody’s eyes on most of the above… the thing is that unlike with D’Antoni we’re winning so we’re not ready to crucify the guy, but many of us have several issues with his stubborness and inflexibility

      Frank O.:
      And, btw, for all the hammering D’Antoni took here for his perceived inflexibility, this board has been far less critical of Woodson’s rigid adherence to some truly flawed experiments:
      1. Melo at the four as noted above, and playing him too many minutes.
      2. Overusing JR, who while he has had moments, has generally hurt the team through his very high volume low efficiency scoring.
      3. His under utilization of Stat with Tyson and Melo so that they could learn to play together.
      4. Underplaying Prigs
      5. Starting two empty jersey’s and conceding the 1st quarter almost every game.
      6. Not giving Copeland, a pretty efficient scorer, more minutes to help him develop.

      D’Antoni also got killed here for his play calling, but I think we’ve seen enough of Woodson to know he is perhaps as bad, if not worse.
      Add to that that his offense is boring and unimaginative and entirely predictable.
      And he continues the Knicks trend over the past decade of being totally unprepared game to game to stop or contain the other team’s most dangerous element.
      I like Woodson. I think he has some strengths. But I don’t feel he has managed this group very well, and a lot of the knocks on him prior to coming to the Knicks continue to be knocks.

    10. d-mar

      thenamestsam: I mean I think it’s pretty obvious why Melo would want to play. It’s silly to say based on one game that he can’t perform at a high level. I mean he had a terrible game and he certainly didn’t look healthy, but even if he’s not healthy he’s still going to believe that he’s capable of putting up a big game and leading his team to victory and of course, for him, to do it against his old team would mean a lot. Melo wouldn’t be Melo if his thought process went like “Well I sucked last game so I’m probably going to suck tonight and then my ex-fans are going to boo me, and basically I might as well sit out”.

      But from the Knicks perspective they really should be very careful. Treating this game as anything more than a normal regular season game is just prideful and while I understand the temptation will be great for Melo to give in to that as an individual, the organization should be capable of making more far-sighted decisions. If he’s not healthy he should sit. Honestly, the seeding in the East isn’t that important at this point. The difference between playing Atlanta and Boston is much, much smaller than the difference between having a healthy Melo or an unhealthy Melo.

      BTW, I’m not a Melo hater by any stretch, if that’s how it came across. I just think it could get really ugly tonight if he’s struggling as badly as he did against GS, and could really hurt him mentally going forward.

    11. er

      I think you guys are viewing this game rationally with a totally irrational team. They will probably come out and beat the doors off of denver. This is the same team that struggles with philly and turns around and goes toe to toe with the heat and thunder and swept the spurs. I expect a knick win tonight and better melo( he probably came back the game before just to get the rust off for this game)

    12. stratomatic

      Frank O.:
      I’m not into Melo bashing. He is what he is. I think the greatest problem is how the Knicks and others have used him.
      He’s been playing out of position all year because Woodson thought he created a mismatch at the four. But Melo has been creating mismatches at the 3 his entire career.

      Melo’s offensive stats are clearly better at the 4 than than the 3, but the Knicks give up rebounding and defense. So I don’t think it’s a failure as much as it is probably a long term wash. IMO it should depend on the team’s need and the matchup on any specific night.

    13. thenamestsam

      er:
      I think you guys are viewing this game rationally with a totally irrational team. They will probably come out and beat the doors off of denver. This is the same team that struggles with philly and turns around and goes toe to toe with the heat and thunder and swept the spurs. I expect a knick win tonight and better melo( he probably came back the game before just to get the rust off for this game)

      Honestly, I agree. Teams struggle in Denver because with the altitude it makes it very hard to match up with them given how deep they are, how fast they play, their energy level etc. But the Knicks will be super fired up for this game tonight. If anybody watched the Lakers last night they looked locked in from the opening tip and it clearly meant something to not only Dwight but also his teammates to come out and have a good game. I expect the Knicks to come out with a lot of energy and at least make it a very difficult game.

    14. KnickfaninNJ

      I hope thenamestam and er are right, but bear in mind that the sword cuts both ways. Denver has a lot of ex-Knicks who might also be motivated to show what they can do.

    15. Hubert Davis

      Frank O.:
      Too many teams fall in love with Melo’s ability to get his own shot, but as has been pointed out near constantly since he arrived, his stats suffer for this ability.
      If the Knicks would balance out usage among some key players, and let Melo score within the offense – sure, feature him on the block as the three and let him bully ball – his efficiency would improve hugely.
      In the end, you can’t blame Melo for being what teams seem to want him to be. They ask him to score. They ask him to facilitate. They ask him to take over when they fail to get into their offense. They ask him to run the team when our guards are unable.
      All of this makes him look bad on the books.
      Play him at the 3. Put him out there with a Tyson, Camby, Melo front. And even work in a guy who can score like Copeland. Watch what happens.

      I can’t help but wonder if you’re describing the role he refused to accept under Mike D’Antoni.

    16. Frank O.

      johnlocke:
      Frank O. with all due respect were you around for the last game thread. A prayer offering was sent up to open Woody’s eyes on most of the above… the thing is that unlike with D’Antoni we’re winning so we’re not ready to crucify the guy, but many of us have several issues with his stubborness and inflexibility

      my point was only that with D’Antoni, the knives were out quickly.
      One game thread, where the team was utterly destroyed is just that.
      With D’Antoni, there was a campaign, active and strong here, against him.
      I do agree that some of this is that the team has a winning record since he took over. But I would suggest some of this is despite his efforts.
      Too often his strategy appears to be play Melo to death, call few plays, and just hand it to JR and Melo and hope for the best.
      With the talent and experience on this team, it should be winning more often than not. D’Antoni never had the talent level or experience.
      And here is the key: D’Antoni got very little slack from folks here for the level of talent and experience he had, but Woodson is getting slack because of the the talent level he has.

      I think ruru is right sometimes when he says people aren’t seeing beyond winning and losing.
      You can win games and show a deeply flawed team with problems ranging from the players to the coaches to org; you also can lose games and see great strides and improvement and hope for the future.
      These are not absolutes.
      Because Woodson has been getting wins doesn’t necessarily mean he’s getting the most out of this team.
      unfortunately, the kind of winning being done allows for the perpetuation of some flawed thinking, IMHO, that will prevent this team from making any noise in the playoffs.

      Of course, abbey may be right in that this all was foretold when the Knicks failed to secure Lebron, which was probably well beyond their control.

    17. Frank O.

      stratomatic: Melo’s offensive stats are clearly better at the 4 than than the 3, but the Knicks give up rebounding and defense.So I don’t think it’s a failure as much as it is probably a long term wash. IMO it shoulddepend on the team’s need and the matchup on any specific night.

      I don’t think his stats are better because he’s playing the 4 necessarily. his statsd hsave improved enormously because his three pt shooting.
      His career average is .332. This year it’s .381. Further, for his career, he averaged only 2.8 3 pters per 36; now he’s averaging 6.2 3 pters per 36.
      I seriously doubt this has as much to do with whether he’s guarded by a slower 4. Perhaps 4s are less willing to guard that far out, but my impression is he’s a way better shooter from long range this year, and taking three times as many shots, and doing it with people in his face.
      He’s actually getting the the FT line slightly less and his overall FG% is significantly less than his career (career .455, this year .438).
      No, I think it’s all about the long jay.

    18. Frank O.

      Hubert Davis: I can’t help but wonder if you’re describing the role he refused to accept under Mike D’Antoni.

      That definitely occurred to me as well as I wrote it. I have no doubt that Melo was unhappy under D’Antoni’s system. And I suspect there was some sabotage, although we’ll never know that is absolutely true.

      But Melo was shaped by years of coaching, whether it was the year at Syracuse, where it was Melo left and Melo right and Melo, Melo, Melo, or in Denver where he was a volume scorer.
      I think in Denver, the expectations of the coaching staff were similar. Ruru could address that with some authority, I suspect, given he followed his career in Denver. But from the statistics, he appeared to be a volume scorer on a team that expected him to be just that.
      Chicken and egg.

    19. Frank

      Are we really getting on Woodson for playing Melo at the 4? There were entire threads dedicated to how much better Melo was playing there and how STAT should come off the bench. And if you look at 82games, Melo has a net + 12.7 PER when playing the 4 (and a net +13.5 at the 3) — that’s not shabby even with whatever weaknesses you want to read into PER.

      Overall, I would agree that Melo is not as important to this team as Tyson Chandler is, mostly because TC is way more important to the defense than Melo is to the offense. But if you look at on/off court numbers, Melo is clearly a net positive on offense. And if you take both Melo and Tyson off the floor at the same time, the offense craters.

      I agree that knowing nothing about what’s actually going on inside his knee, I would be tempted to give him 2-3 weeks off at least to see if noninvasive treatments or even draining the knee might make it better.

    20. Hubert Davis

      thenamestsam: HoIf anybody watched the Lakers last night they looked locked in from the opening tip and it clearly meant something to not only Dwight but also his teammates to come out and have a good game.

      I didn’t watch it. Assuming you did. How did he end up with 39 free throw attempts??? That is a monster number. Did they go hack – a – dwight? Was he just completely overpowering and that was all they could resort to? Was there a heavy whistle? I’m very curious.

    21. Hubert Davis

      I should have just googled. Sorry.

      “The majority of them came as the Magic tried to employ an intentional foul strategy. It backfired, though, as the All-Star center hit on 16 of 20 attempts in the second half.”

    22. ruruland

      stratomatic: Melo’s offensive stats are clearly better at the 4 than than the 3, but the Knicks give up rebounding and defense.So I don’t think it’s a failure as much as it is probably a long term wash. IMO it shoulddepend on the team’s need and the matchup on any specific night.

      Do you not realize I post here? Why would you think you could get away with making things up?

      This first statement is completely false.

    23. KnickfaninNJ

      I liked Woodson a lot at first, but less so now. The team seemed to like him and play hard for him. And they still seem to play hard for him. They dive on the floor and go after loose balls with vigor. The team clearly needs scoring, but his response to this has been disappointing to me. It seems his response to this need is to play his top scorers more minutes and get them the ball more often. I would rather seem him get on the team about getting open shots and movement. It’s not clear to me he’s doing that. And his reliance on Melo and JR seems to be making the rest of the team (except Amare) more passive on offense. This doesn’t make him a horrible coach, just more like a run of the mill coach.

    24. ruruland

      stratomatic:

      I’ve been tracking the Knicks performance with Melo in/out adjustedfor home/away, strength of opponent, days rest etc… and he simply does not have a huge impact on the team’s results. That was also true of him in Denver.

      So, what have you come up with? Please provide some data.

      You realize that not only have we discussed about this in-depth here, citing studies that actually looked at how his presence impacted his teammates, but it’s really easy to look up his record in Denver.

      Neither of those things support your premise.

      But why don’t you show us what you’ve found about Melo’s impact on the Knicks vis-a-vis sos, home/away, etc.

      You wouldn’t have made that up as well, would you have?

    25. Hubert Davis

      ruruland: Do you not realize I post here? Why would you think you could get away with making things up?

      This first statement is completely false.

      I actually assumed you get text alerts when statements like that get posted. It was either that or Spidey Sense.

    26. ruruland

      KnickfaninNJ:
      I liked Woodson a lot at first, but less so now.The team seemed to like him and play hard for him.And they still seem to play hard for him. They dive on the floor and go after loose balls with vigor. The team clearly needs scoring, but his response to this has been disappointing to me. It seems his response to this need is to play his top scorers more minutes and get them the ball more often.I would rather seem him get on the team about getting open shots and movement. It’s not clear to me he’s doing that.And his reliance on Melo and JR seems to be making the rest of the team (except Amare) more passive on offense.This doesn’t make him a horrible coach, just more like a run of the mill coach.

      Without Amar’e, the Knicks have basically three players that can create their own shot. Two of them, Felton and JR, are very inefficient in that regard, though they each have value.

      Without Amar’e, most nights the offense demands Melo shoot the ball a lot.

      You are not going to organically increase the usage of Chandler, Kidd, Shumpert, or Novak to try to balance the offense.

      That’s why Amar’e, playing with Melo, was so very important from the very beginning, allowing both players to decrease their usage to the benefit of each other and the team.

      Anyone who has studied the numbers, Melo’s shot distribution, etc, comes to the conclusion that at lower usage levels, by taking out a chunk of his isolations, which are the shots the Knicks offense relies on too much in the half-court to create open shots for others, he’d become much more efficient on paper.

      People who don’t look at the numbers, like stratomatic, don’t realize how good Carmelo is in so many plays situations, and are unable to apply any logic to the situation whatsoever.

    27. Hubert Davis

      On this Melo at the 4 thing, I’ve been thinking this all year. It’s never had to be an either the 4 or the 3 exclusively thing, but that’s what Woodson made it.

      Melo is a great player at the 3 and he is a great player at the 4. Mix it up. Why be so rigid that Melo is guarding Dwight Howard and Marc Gasol just so he can play at the 4 (both of those things happened)?

      I never really bought into Woodson. I attributed his success to great man management and a post-D’Antoni honeymoon. But he is clearly part of Dolan’s “family” and he is never going anywhere. He changed agents at Dolan’s request. He doesn’t squeal to the media He has his trust. That’s what’s valued here.

      He will never get fired for things like “I can’t adjust to the fact that Miami is fronting Melo until game 1 of the playoffs is over”, “Doc Rivers is constantly abusing my predictable defensive philosophy but I won’t change it”, or “I played an injured star 34 minutes in a blowout because I thought we could make a run.”

    28. stratomatic

      Frank O.: I don’t think his stats are better because he’s playing the 4 necessarily. his statsd hsave improved enormously because his three pt shooting.
      His career average is .332. This year it’s .381. Further, for his career, he averaged only 2.8 3 pters per 36; now he’s averaging 6.2 3 pters per 36.
      I seriously doubt this has as much to do with whether he’s guarded by a slower 4. Perhaps 4s are less willing to guard that far out, but my impression is he’s a way better shooter from long range this year, and taking three times as many shots, and doing it with people in his face.
      He’s actually getting the the FT line slightly less and his overall FG% is significantly less than his career (career .455, this year .438).
      No, I think it’s all about the long jay.

      1. His stats were way better at the 4 last year also.

      2. I read an article that said the reason Woodson wants to use him at the 4 is that the advanced stats guy that the Knicks are using is TELLING Woodson that Melo has been better both last year and this year at the 4.

      I think part of his improved outside shooting is that some PFs are reluctant to come out and challenge his outside shot to the same degree because he’s too quick for them. Not so with SFs

    29. stratomatic

      ruruland:
      Anyone who has studied the numbers, Melo’s shot distribution, etc, comes to the conclusion that at lower usage levels, by taking out a chunk of his isolations, which are the shots the Knicks offense relies on too much in the half-court to create open shots for others, he’d become much more efficient on paper.

      People who don’t look at the numbers, like stratomatic, don’t realize how good Carmelo is in so many plays situations, and are unable to apply any logic to the situation whatsoever.

      I look at ALL the numbers all day long every day.

      The problem with your logic is that it assumes that all of Melo’s isolations, long 2s etc.. are involuntary actions that were forced upon him because he’s the primary scoring option.

      1. That is not true. He often voluntarily goes into that mode early in the clock or is forced to as a result of dribbling (instead of passing) and running enough time off the clock that shooting a tough shot becomes the wise thing to do.

      2. Guys like Durant, James, Harden, Wade, Kobe (the guys I mentioned) all have similar roles yet remain extremely efficient.

      3. His impact on the team in terms of point differential adjusted for strength of schedule, home/away, and rest is not large and has been marginal for his entire career. This is well known in gambling circles where people have to adjust betting lines for injuries and have a good line on the precise impact/value of players.

    30. ruruland

      Even playing through the knee injury, Melo is an elite offensive player by the numbers, without considering he draws the top defensive wing defender every game, consistent double teams and weak-side tilts that few players in the game receive, which naturally increases his value merely by his presence on the floor.

      These are the numbers of a great offensive player, not an average one. Consider that there are about 400 players rated by Synergy.

      Melo is 4th in the NBA pick and roll ball-handling with 156 plays.

      Melo is 15th in the entire league in post scoring efficiency with 252 plays.

      Melo is No.1 in the league in pick and roll scoring as the roll man, albeit it at just 28 plays.

      Melo is 24th in scoring off screens.

      He is 28th in offensive rebound efficiency.

      He’s 47th in isolation scoring, which still puts him in the 12th percentile .

      He’s 72 in spot-up scoring, which puts him in the 18th percentile.

      Compare Melo to other high-efficiency wings excluding Lebron and Durant. What you’ll find is that Melo is generally more efficient in most shot categories than even very efficient wings — taking more attempts in in the similarly efficient areas — the difference is that no on takes anywhere near as many isolation as Melo does.

      Melo is excellent at creating high-efficiency shots for himself when we look at the raw volume of numbers, the problem is that he’s having to create such a high percentage of them in isolation.

      You could knock Melo’s isolation attempts down 20-30%, and he would still have a usage around 30 (albeit with a TS% around .575-580).

    31. ruruland

      stratomatic: I look at ALL the numbers all day long every day.

      The problem with your logic is that it assumes that all of Melo’s isolations, long 2s etc..are involuntary actions that were forced upon him because he’s the primary scoring option.

      1. That is not true.He often voluntarily goes into that mode early in the clock or is forced to as a result of dribbling (instead of passing) and running enough time off the clock that shooting a tough shot becomes the wise thing to do.

      2. Guys like Durant, James, Harden, Wade, Kobe (the guys I mentioned) all have similar roles yet remain extremely efficient.

      3. His impact on the team in terms of point differential adjusted for strength of schedule, home/away, and rest is not large and has been marginal for his entire career. This is well known in gambling circles where people have to adjust betting lines for injuries and have a good line on the precise impact/value of players.

      3. Now I know where your claim comes from. I’ve actually addressed the gambling line fallacy previously as it came out in the Ballard article (which is what you’re referring to).
      The person Ballard cited in his article was flat out wrong in terms of the Knicks performance w/out Melo against the spread.

    32. ruruland

      stratomatic: I look at ALL the numbers all day long every day.

      The problem with your logic is that it assumes that all of Melo’s isolations, long 2s etc..are involuntary actions that were forced upon him because he’s the primary scoring option.

      1. That is not true.He often voluntarily goes into that mode early in the clock or is forced to as a result of dribbling (instead of passing) and running enough time off the clock that shooting a tough shot becomes the wise thing to do.

      2. Guys like Durant, James, Harden, Wade, Kobe (the guys I mentioned) all have similar roles yet remain extremely efficient.

      3. His impact on the team in terms of point differential adjusted for strength of schedule, home/away, and rest is not large and has been marginal for his entire career. This is well known in gambling circles where people have to adjust betting lines for injuries and have a good line on the precise impact/value of players.

      2) Melo shoots a lot more than Durant and Harden in the half-court. The volume of his other more efficient play types is either in their range or exceeds it.

      Melo does go into isolation earlier in the clock. Much of the time it creates the defensive attention needed to generate shots for others.

      Melo’s usage is roughly 5 % higher than Durants and Hardens, with lower turnover %, and it
      s even higher than that when we consider half-court usage.

      There is no way to argue with the fact that both Harden and Durant have much more balance in shot creation around them.

      Now, if we reduced Melo’s usage to their levels, Melo would not be shooting +.600 TS (because of Harden and Durant’s insane ft rates), but he would be much closer to them with a lower turnover rate.

      Melo has no problem creating or having other shot types created for him that far exceed the average wing.

      The volume of isolation plays put him…

    33. ruruland

      I should say, much closer to Harden’s .600 TS, he would never approach Durant’s ridiculous .650 TS on 28-29 usage.

    34. ruruland

      stratomatic: I look at ALL the numbers all day long every day.

      The problem with your logic is that it assumes that all of Melo’s isolations, long 2s etc..are involuntary actions that were forced upon him because he’s the primary scoring option.

      1. That is not true.He often voluntarily goes into that mode early in the clock or is forced to as a result of dribbling (instead of passing) and running enough time off the clock that shooting a tough shot becomes the wise thing to do.

      Melo set his career high in scoring efficiency, prior to really developing a consistent 3-pt threat, when his usage was 30.2, the lowest it’s been since he turned 20.

      Who did Anthony play with that year? Allen Iverson, who also happened to have the most efficient shooting year of his career playing alongside Melo, with the lowest usage of his career.

      There’s no way that’s a coincidence.

      Guess what?

      With a decreased need to shot create, Melo shot create less and became more efficient ((on paper). He’s a much better all-around offensive player now than he was then.

    35. ruruland

      stratomatic: 1. His stats were way better at the 4 last year also.

      2. I read an article that said the reason Woodson wants to use him at the 4 is that the advanced stats guy that the Knicks are using is TELLING Woodson that Melo has been better both last year and this year at the 4.

      I think part of his improved outside shooting is that some PFs are reluctant to come out and challenge his outside shot to the same degree because he’s too quick for them. Not so with SFs

      Why would I waste my time arguing with someone who thinks power forwards guard Carmelo Anthony (which is completely false with a few rare exceptions in few isolated games where the opposing coach quickly realizes his mistake)?

      Stratomatic, you are out of your element.

    36. KnickfaninNJ

      ruruland: Without Amar’e, the Knicks have basically three players that can create their own shot. Two of them, Felton and JR, are very inefficient in that regard, though they each have value.

      Without Amar’e, most nights the offense demands Melo shoot the ball a lot.

      You are not going to organically increase the usage of Chandler, Kidd, Shumpert, or Novak to try to balance the offense.

      That’s why Amar’e, playing with Melo, was so very important from the very beginning, allowing both players to decrease their usage to the benefit of each other and the team.

      Anyone who has studied the numbers, Melo’s shot distribution, etc, comes to the conclusion that at lower usage levels, by taking out a chunk of his isolations, which are the shots the Knicks offense relies on too much in the half-court to create open shots for others, he’d become much more efficient on paper.

      People who don’t look at the numbers, like stratomatic, don’t realize how good Carmelo is in so many plays situations, and are unable to apply any logic to the situation whatsoever.

      I agree that few Knicks can create their own shot. They need team work, ball movement and passing to open up opportunities for them. My point was that the Knicks under Woodson don’t seem to do it enough. They only time recently I remember them doing this enough was when the Knicks recently had neither Carmelo nor Amare and still won handily, which might be said to be the exception that proves the rule.

    37. ruruland

      Ball movement is a byproduct of forcing the defense to help, either by penetration or creating attention with the ball near the basket.

      The Knicks had great ball movement against the Jazz because the Jazz guards were consistently getting beat off the dribble, forcing their teammates to help.

    38. KnickfaninNJ

      Ruruland,

      I don’t remember that from the game, but I am sure you are right. And it may be that the Knicks can’t defeat every teams guards off the dribble consistently (for example, Miami is difficult). But they don’t even seem to try to do this a lot of times. The only goal of their offense a lot of times seems to be to be to get Melo or JR the ball when they are covered one on one. Woodson ought to be pushing them to try harder to do this.

    39. ruruland

      KnickfaninNJ:
      Ruruland,

      I don’t remember that from the game, but I am sure you are right. And it may be that the Knicks can’t defeat every teams guards off the dribble consistently (for example, Miami is difficult).But they don’t even seem to try to do this a lot of times. The only goal of their offense a lot of times seems to be to be to get Melo or JR the ball when they arecovered one on one.Woodson ought to be pushing them to try harder to do this.

      They run a lot of pick and roll with Felton.

    40. Owen

      Ruruland – Ball movement is a byproduct of forcing the defense to help?

      I feel like I am living in an alternate universe reading these posts, where the only way to play basketball is to send Carmelo Anthony, God of Isolation, against the enemy hordes…..

      Look, there are lots of different ways to play basketball. They don’t all require someone to stand 18 feet from the basket and pound the ball into the floor.

      Melo is a volume scorer who has yet to show he can score with elite efficiency ten years into his career. He has shown the ability to score without committing turnovers, the ability to pass, but never both at the same time. He does nothing else very well on the basketball court and his career offensive rating is only 108. He is also past his prime with a body that doesn’t seem to be able to withstand his style of play.

      In a world where scoring on half court set pieces is the only thing that matters, Carmelo might be a very valuable asset. But that’s not how basketball works.

      I just don’t understand your passion for this guy. He is nothing more than a fringe third tier NBA star on the wrong side of the age curve. There are buckets of guys in the NBA who are better than he is. Maybe not at drawing double teams. But at playing basketball.

      I just hope the Knicks come to their senses and trade him soon for someone cheaper, better and younger.

    41. ruruland

      Owen:
      Ruruland – Ball movement is a byproduct of forcing the defense to help?

      I feel like I am living in an alternate universe reading these posts, where the only way to play basketball is to send Carmelo Anthony,God of Isolation, against the enemy hordes…..

      Look, there are lots of different ways to play basketball. They don’t all require someone to stand 18 feet from the basket and pound the ball into the floor.

      Melo is a volume scorer who has yet to show he can score with elite efficiency ten years into his career. He has shown the ability to score without committing turnovers, the ability to pass, but never both at the same time. He does nothing else very well on the basketball court and his career offensive rating is only 108. He is also past his prime with a body that doesn’t seem to be able to withstand his style of play.

      In a world where scoring on half court set pieces is the only thing that matters,Carmelo might be a very valuable asset. But that’s not how basketball works.

      I just don’t understand your passion for this guy. He is nothing more than a fringe third tier NBA star on the wrong side of the age curve. There are buckets of guys in the NBA who are better than he is. Maybe not at drawing double teams. But at playing basketball.

      I just hope the Knicks come to their senses and trade him soon for someone cheaper, better and younger.

      Ok.

    42. ruruland

      Owen:
      Ruruland – Ball movement is a byproduct of forcing the defense to help?

      I feel like I am living in an alternate universe reading these posts, where the only way to play basketball is to send Carmelo Anthony,God of Isolation, against the enemy hordes…..

      Look, there are lots of different ways to play basketball. They don’t all require someone to stand 18 feet from the basket and pound the ball into the floor.

      Melo is a volume scorer who has yet to show he can score with elite efficiency ten years into his career. He has shown the ability to score without committing turnovers, the ability to pass, but never both at the same time. He does nothing else very well on the basketball court and his career offensive rating is only 108. He is also past his prime with a body that doesn’t seem to be able to withstand his style of play.

      In a world where scoring on half court set pieces is the only thing that matters,Carmelo might be a very valuable asset. But that’s not how basketball works.

      I just don’t understand your passion for this guy. He is nothing more than a fringe third tier NBA star on the wrong side of the age curve. There are buckets of guys in the NBA who are better than he is. Maybe not at drawing double teams. But at playing basketball.

      I just hope the Knicks come to their senses and trade him soon for someone cheaper, better and younger.

      Thanks, Owen. Your insights are unique and valuable. I really love how you’re able to take a claim I make, and not just address it directly, but either build on it or refute it with evidence and sound arguments.

      With fair use in mind, would you allow me to copy and past your post across the rest of the internet?

    43. mcliff05

      P>I just don’t understand your passion for this guy. He is nothing more than a fringe third tier NBA star on the wrong side of the age curve. There are buckets of guys in the NBA who are better than he is. Maybe not at drawing double teams. But at playing basketball.I just hope the Knicks come to their senses and trade him soon for someone cheaper, better and younger.

      3rd tier NBA star. That made me laugh. I’d love to rewind the tape and hear what you had to say about Paul Pierce, Dwayne Wade, Dirk and countless other players before they had championship calibur teams around them. Hell, Karl Malone was probably a 4th tier NBA star because he was a ball stopper right? The fact is, you look better when your on a good team, and you look bad when your on a bad team. Knicks go 18-5, Melo is a legit MVP contender with #3 PER. Now he’s barely allstar worthy and should be traded immediately.

      Melo’s biggest criticism is that he isnt as good an all around player as Lebron. So go root for the Heat.

    44. ruruland

      mcliff05: 3rd tier NBA star.That made me laugh.I’d love to rewind the tape and hear what you had to say about Paul Pierce, Dwayne Wade, Dirk and countless other players before they had championship calibur teams around them.Hell, Karl Malone was probably a 4th tier NBA star because he was a ball stopper right?The fact is, you look better when your on a good team, and you look bad when your on a bad team.Knicks go 18-5, Melo is a legit MVP contender with #3 PER.Now he’s barely allstar worthy and should be traded immediately.

      Melo’s biggest criticism is that he isnt as good an all around player as Lebron.So go root for the Heat.

      No, he’s a fringe third-tier star.

    45. Owen

      I am not mad Melo isn’t Lebron. I am mad he isn’t Paul Millsap.

      I have thought Dwyane Wade was the best shooting guard in the NBA since 2007. Better than Kobe. I thought Dirk was a historically great power forward the whole way. There is a reason he was the centerpiece of the greatest offensive team of all time.

      Paul Pierce is not an elite NBA baller. But he has been pretty damn good and I wish Carmelo were as good as he was at his peak.

      I have never thought Melo was great. Not on the Knicks, Not on the Nuggets. And I have said as much for as long as I have posted here, long before he was a Knick. .

      Melo is just not in the same galaxy as an elite NBA player, now or historically. He has exactly one skill, volume scoring.

      Ruruland has now logged two solid years of posting about how Melo’s efficiency is about to explode. Seriously. He has written the same thing about how the breakout is around the corner at least fifty times.

      But the truth is 30 year old players in their 11th year simply don’t breakout. Melo is what he is. And even if he did breakout and post the 60% ts% ruru says is coming, he still wouldn’t be that great.

      Doesn’t pass. Doesn’t board. Doesn’t defend.

      Half the time he isn’t even trying that hard, or harassing the refs while the ball goes the other way. Or throwing the ball to the other team on the inbound.

      Not sure I would feel as strongly about this if Ruru weren’t trying to pimp him all the time but I honestly can’t wait for the Melo era to be over. I hope he is out by 2015.

    46. ruruland

      Owen:
      I am not mad Melo isn’t Lebron. I am mad he isn’t Paul Millsap.

      I have thought Dwyane Wade was the best shooting guard in the NBA since 2007. Better than Kobe. I thought Dirk was a historically great power forward the whole way. There is a reason he was the centerpiece of the greatest offensive team of all time.

      Paul Pierce is not an elite NBA baller. But he has been pretty damn good and I wish Carmelo were as good as he was at his peak.

      I have never thought Melo was great. Not on the Knicks, Not on the Nuggets. And I have said as much for as long as I have posted here, long before he was a Knick. .

      Melo is just not in the same galaxy as an elite NBA player, now or historically. He has exactly one skill, volume scoring.

      Ruruland has now logged two solid years of posting about how Melo’s efficiency is about to explode. Seriously. He has written the same thing about how the breakout is around the corner at least fifty times.

      But the truth is 30 year old players in their 11th year simply don’t breakout. Melo is what he is. And even if he did breakout and post the 60% ts% ruru says is coming, he still wouldn’t be that great.

      Doesn’t pass. Doesn’t board. Doesn’t defend.

      Half the time he isn’t even trying that hard, or harassing the refs while the ball goes the other way. Or throwing the ball to the other team on the inbound.

      This is perfect example of Owen’s most recognizable posting trait: cognitive dissonance. That or you consciously cannot understand or remember what I’ve been posting about since I’ve been here.

      His assist and rebounding profiles are basically identical to Kevin Durant’s over the past 4 years.

    47. Owen

      So we are comparing a 25 year old Carmelo to a 20 year old Durant? Funny that you dropped out five years ago, when his rebounding went below 10%.

      The data mining continues. It’s just a joke.

      The Knicks have a better chance of winning this game than you do of winning this argument.

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