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Thursday, July 24, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Mar 06 2013)

  • [New York Daily News] Status of Melo’s knee injury still unclear (Wed, 06 Mar 2013 05:09:23 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony is either really embarrassed from tripping over himself, or his aching right knee could threaten to undermine the Knicks’ season long before LeBron James ever gets the chance to. Anthony is officially listed as questionable for Wednesday’s game against the Detroit Pistons, and it is possible the Knicks’ All-Star forward won’t be available for Thursday’s home game against the Oklahoma City Thunder.

  • [New York Daily News] Ex-Knicks Williams ailing with illness (Wed, 06 Mar 2013 04:57:18 GMT)
    “Once a Knick, Always a Knickâ? is more than just a marketing slogan stitched inside the uniforms of each player who wears orange and blue. For Ray Williams, it is a matter of life and death.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Hold Off Lakers’ Charge, 122-105 (Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:32:01 GMT)
    There are times when coach Scott Brooks figures the best way to get his Oklahoma City Thunder to stop turning the ball over is to simply stop talking about the problem in the hope it goes away.

  • [New York Times] NBA Capsules (Wed, 06 Mar 2013 06:02:54 GMT)
    Paul Pierce had 18 points and 11 rebounds, and Avery Bradley scored 22 points to lead the Boston Celtics to a 109-101 win over the Philadelphia 76ers on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Lawson’s 24 Points Lead Nuggets, 120-113 (Wed, 06 Mar 2013 05:53:41 GMT)
    Ty Lawson had 24 points and Danilo Gallinari added 23 for the Denver Nuggets as they won their sixth straight game, defeating the Sacramento Kings 120-113 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Hold Off Lakers’ Charge, 122-105 (Wed, 06 Mar 2013 05:44:52 GMT)
    Russell Westbrook had 37 points and 10 rebounds, Kevin Durant scored 26 and the Oklahoma City Thunder held off a second-half charge to beat the improving Los Angeles Lakers 122-105 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Celtics 109, 76ers 101: Pierce Helps Celtics Top Slumping 76ers (Wed, 06 Mar 2013 04:02:17 GMT)
    Paul Pierce had 18 points and 11 rebounds, and Avery Bradley scored 22 points to lead the Celtics to a 109-101 win over the Philadelphia 76ers on Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] Liberty Re-Sign F-C Kara Braxton (Wed, 06 Mar 2013 03:17:02 GMT)
    The New York Liberty have re-signed veteran forward-center Kara Braxton.

  • [New York Times] Knicks Are Still Struggling to Get Their Stars to Align (Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:44:01 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire have each played well this season for the Knicks. Just not when they’re on the court together.

  • 142 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Mar 06 2013)

    1. daJudge

      Sad news about Ray Williams, but nice to see the Knicks helping him out. He was an electric player for certain. Hope he pulls through.

    2. Sovereign

      Okay. Tickets have been secured for the 27th, when the Grizzlies come into MSG. Section 115 in MSG is where I’ll be at.

      Can’t wait!

    3. RicanKnick

      Why in the world is James “Flight” White starting for the NY Knicks??? Is he even a capable NBA player?? I think the NYK should’ve adressed that matter before the trade dateline…Just saying!!!

    4. thenamestsam

      er:
      funny that melo has not played kevin durant in almost 2 full years, crazy that he is on track to miss the matchup yet again. But when they were in the same division melos nuggs owned the thunder.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duranke01&p2=anthoca01

      True, although the Thunder weren’t exactly at the same place on the NBA landscape then that they are today.

      yoda4554:
      So that everyone is aware…

      http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=15rmyop&s=6

      Yup. I think people are sleeping on how much tougher our schedule is about to get. Our best wins in 2013 are San Antonio at home, @Boston and then…Atlanta at home? At a somewhat resurgent Washington? Golden State at home without Lee and BNogut? Not exactly an impressive slate of victories to choose from in the last 2 months. In the next two weeks alone we have OKC at home on a back-to-back, Utah at home, @Golden State, @Portland on a back-to-back, @ the Clips and @the Jazz. We’re either about to start ringing up those impressive victories or things are about to get pretty ugly. After the Pistons game they could easily have a 7 game losing streak without a really bad loss in the bunch.

    5. cgreene

      So according to Al Iannazone our dear Mike Woodson is going to start Felton, Shumpert, WHITE, KURT THOMAS and Chandler tonight. Anyone care to wager how much we will lose the 1st Q by?

      If that team played Kidd, JR, Novak, Amare, Camby or Kidd, JR, Amare, Kmart, Camby the first team would lose… by a wide margin.

      I want to punch myself in the face. Woodson is losing more credibility by the minute. I think the pressure has got to him.

    6. thenamestsam

      cgreene:
      So according to Al Iannazone our dear Mike Woodson is going to start Felton, Shumpert, WHITE, KURT THOMAS and Chandler tonight.Anyone care to wager how much we will lose the 1st Q by?

      If that team played Kidd, JR, Novak, Amare, Camby or Kidd, JR, Amare, Kmart, Camby the first team would lose… by a wide margin.

      I want to punch myself in the face.Woodson is losing more credibility by the minute. I think the pressure has got to him.

      Yeah, I mean I understand reserving some scoring punch for the 2nd team but it does seem we might want to put some on the 1st team as well. I mean that’s a group that would never, ever, ever play together on the court if the game was within 30 points in either direction, and for obvious reasons. And yet that’s who we’re going to start with? My mind is boggled.

    7. flossy

      cgreene:
      So according to Al Iannazone our dear Mike Woodson is going to start Felton, Shumpert, WHITE, KURT THOMAS and Chandler tonight.Anyone care to wager how much we will lose the 1st Q by?

      If that team played Kidd, JR, Novak, Amare, Camby or Kidd, JR, Amare, Kmart, Camby the first team would lose… by a wide margin.

      I want to punch myself in the face.Woodson is losing more credibility by the minute. I think the pressure has got to him.

      You cannot be serious. Felton, Shumpert, White,
      Kurt and Tyson is a joke of a lineup. What the fuck, man? Is there nobody within the Knicks organization who can say to him “by the way, watching that starting unit try to score will be slightly less enjoyable than watching two monkeys try to fuck a football.”

      If Melo is still out on Thursday and that lineup starts against the Thunder… wow. Talk about a bloodbath of epic proportions.

    8. cgreene

      Woodson’s explanation: “I am using them as a stop gap until I CAN put in JR and Amare”. As if there is some rule that he CAN’T.

    9. d-mar

      cgreene:
      Woodson’s explanation: “I am using them as a stop gap until I CAN put in JR and Amare”.As if there is some rule that he CAN’T.

      Felton may have 20 shots up before halftime. If I was the Pistons, I would be insulted by that starting lineup.

    10. Nick C.

      Perhaps it is a test study for can a team score without high usage “shot creators” on the floor?

    11. Owen

      I thought the Knicks proved that against the Heat this year already…

      The Knicks are actually 12-8 without Melo in the last two years, if you include the two games he got hurt in, against the Cavs and Utah. I guess, 11-8 since he was a +7 when he left the Utah game after 7 minutes. Will keep the Cavs game in the sample since he was a -15.

      I predict a stronger offensive performance than some are anticipating, although mostly because Detroit sucks….

      Nick C.:
      Perhaps it is a test study for can a team score without high usage “shot creators” on the floor?

    12. lavor postell

      I was a big proponent of keeping Woodson because I thought he earned with how we finished last season. That said how the fuck can that be your starting lineup and why when Melo is out, when STAT and Chandler lineups have been crushing teams can you not start Amar’e? It’s like he’s coaching us to try and become the best comeback team in the league.

      I mean people criticize Melo for being selfish (which is true sometimes), but you put him in a starting lineup with Felton, Shump, White and Chandler he’s going to have to be. If he hadn’t been on fire against Miami in that first quarter we are probably down 10 going into the second having scored like 12 points.

    13. RicanKnick

      If Melo can’t play, the starting line up should be: Felton, Kidd, Shump, STAT and Tyson….or Felton, Shump, Novak, STAT and Tyson….

    14. Seba

      Haha, Woody is totally trolling everyone with that starting lineup. Maybe he has supreme confidence in his team being able to overcome any slow start against a weak team and wants to save Amar’e + JR for the endgame. Or maybe he feels this is the last game where he gets to mess around before the sked gets really tough and wants to experiment and boost the confidence of our reserves… or maybe he just wants to keep us entertained by making us try in vain to figure out what in the name of Red Holzman he’s trying to do.

    15. lavor postell

      How is White getting minutes over Copeland? Has White ever helped to carry an NBA offense through a game like Cope actually has managed a couple of times this year? I think Woodson has a thing for with trying to develop guards that have great physical tools, but are raw and not very smart like JR and White. The difference is JR actually manages in spite of himself very often to contribute to the team, whereas White shouldn’t have a roster spot on the Kings or Bobcats.

    16. thenamestsam

      lavor postell:
      How is White getting minutes over Copeland?Has White ever helped to carry an NBA offense through a game like Cope actually has managed a couple of times this year?I think Woodson has a thing for with trying to develop guards that have great physical tools, but are raw and not very smart like JR and White.The difference is JR actually manages in spite of himself very often to contribute to the team, whereas White shouldn’t have a roster spot on the Kings or Bobcats.

      Yeah, I’m not sure how Copeland ended up so deeply buried. The guy obviously has huge glaring weaknesses, but he also has at least a couple NBA level skills. That is not something that can be said for James White as far as I can tell.

    17. Nick C.

      Owen:
      I thought the Knicks proved that against the Heat this year already…

      The Knicks are actually 12-8 without Melo in the last two years, if you include the two games he got hurt in, against the Cavs and Utah. I guess, 11-8 since he was a +7 when he left the Utah game after 7 minutes. Will keep the Cavs game in the sample since he was a -15.

      I predict a stronger offensive performance than some are anticipating, although mostly because Detroit sucks….

      They did annihilate Miami that game. I wasn’t necessarily predicting the line-up would totally suck, though with Kurt and White the “fuck we’re in the penalty @ the 8:52″ comments might be flying in the game thread. Really it is a brief real life test even if the comment was tongue in cheek. I suffered through Isaiah so I am not partial to the “ballers, athletes” etc. mindset.

    18. Brian Cronin

      I was a big proponent of keeping Woodson because I thought he earned with how we finished last season. That said how the fuck can that be your starting lineup and why when Melo is out, when STAT and Chandler lineups have been crushing teams can you not start Amar’e? It’s like he’s coaching us to try and become the best comeback team in the league.

      I mean people criticize Melo for being selfish (which is true sometimes), but you put him in a starting lineup with Felton, Shump, White and Chandler he’s going to have to be. If he hadn’t been on fire against Miami in that first quarter we are probably down 10 going into the second having scored like 12 points.

      Woody is interesting. I agree that with the finish they had last season, it would have been unthinkable to dump him unless it was for Phil Jackson. But yeah, while he is certainly far from a bad coach, I also think that his weaknesses are notable enough that you really have to wonder if they wouldn’t be better off with a change down the road.

    19. AHouston20

      Someone on

      jon abbey:
      FREE KENYON MARTIN

      Someone on twitter I think it may have been Beck said that Woodson said Martin is still behind Kurt and Camby in the rotation because he’s not as comfortable with defensive and offensive schemes Knicks are running yet. But I would agree with Abbey here and think even a Kenyon with limited understanding of the playbook would be better than Kurt fucking Thomas

    20. d-mar

      Maybe he’s starting Thomas because of that automatic jumper of his.

      Of course, it takes him 10 seconds to get it off.

    21. Knicks4Eva

      Hey now, Crazy-Eyes, er I mean KT is a Knick who has proved himself in blood shed when the NBA was still a contact sport.

      Now starting him, um, I can’t defend that.

    22. johnlocke

      Wasn’t Copeland in street clothes the other night? He could be injured. In either case, I think we’re the only team in the NBA with a starter (White) that averages ten minutes a game. I don’t get what it does. Teams are still scoring easily against us in the first and he’s adding nothing on offense. He should start Novak instead, if not Stat and JR. Felton, Kidd, Shump, Novak, Chandler is not great, but still better than Felton, Shump, White, Thomas, Chandler

      lavor postell:
      How is White getting minutes over Copeland?Has White ever helped to carry an NBA offense through a game like Cope actually has managed a couple of times this year?I think Woodson has a thing for with trying to develop guards that have great physical tools, but are raw and not very smart like JR and White.The difference is JR actually manages in spite of himself very often to contribute to the team, whereas White shouldn’t have a roster spot on the Kings or Bobcats.

    23. lavor postell

      johnlocke:
      Wasn’t Copeland in street clothes the other night? He could be injured. In either case, I think we’re the only team in the NBA with a starter (White) that averages ten minutes a game. I don’t get what it does. Teams are still scoring easily against us in the first and he’s adding nothing on offense. He should start Novak instead, if not Stat and JR.Felton, Kidd, Shump, Novak, Chandler is not great, but still better than Felton, Shump, White, Thomas, Chandler

      I could pretty much live with any lineup as long as it didn’t include White. He is probably the one guy on the team who has no role and no fit in any lineup. He can’t shoot the three which we focus on with our offensive sets and he’s not a particularly intelligent cutter from the weakside baseline, something that could actually make him somewhat valuable considering his athletic gifts.

    24. AnonymousODG

      Part of me wonders what sort of wisdom Woodson thinks he has tapped into by not starting his best players. This notion of bringing in a compromised starting unit to hold the line while using a stronger second unit to take advantage of the other team’s bench is only clever on the surface.

      Over the many decades of NBA, collegiate and high school basketball… that’s just not how you do it. What makes this team a unique exception? If Smith and STAT supposedly don’t play well with Melo being featured on the offense, that’s a problem Woodson is supposed to tackle directly, rather than run away from with this ridiculous lineup tinkering.

      This team is not unique in the face of basketball history. And it’s become apparent that this is nothing but Woodson’s fear of failing like D’Antoni did to mesh his best players together and haphazardly hoping for lightning in the bottle by not even attempting to do so.

    25. ruruland

      Owen:
      I thought the Knicks proved that against the Heat this year already…

      I predict a stronger offensive performance than some are anticipating, although mostly because Detroit sucks….

      Actually, the corollary is that the Knicks are a lot better without Melo because Ray Felton becomes a superstar in games against great teams that Melo misses.

      Also, we can apply +/- to show that the Knicks are significantly better without Amar’e (the +/- in Melo’s case does not count because he plays at the same time Chandler does)

      Therefore, they are worlds better without both of them.

      You could basically have any lineup in the league and so long as Chandler is playing it’ll be great. Melo and Stoudemire are the only players that diminish Chandler’s effect.

    26. ruruland

      lavor postell:
      I was a big proponent of keeping Woodson because I thought he earned with how we finished last season.That said how the fuck can that be your starting lineup and why when Melo is out, when STAT and Chandler lineups have been crushing teams can you not start Amar’e?It’s like he’s coaching us to try and become the best comeback team in the league.

      I mean people criticize Melo for being selfish (which is true sometimes), but you put him in a starting lineup with Felton, Shump, White and Chandler he’s going to have to be.If he hadn’t been on fire against Miami in that first quarter we are probably down 10 going into the second having scored like 12 points.

      Dude, it was proven in Miami. Plus, Anthony was a -15 in that one game.

      Knicks will dom with that lineup. Take as long as you need Melo, Knicks don’t need you on the WC trip!

    27. BigBlueAL

      I didnt think anything could top Isiah’s brilliant strategy of starting both Jerome James and Eddy Curry together for a 10 game stretch during the the 2006-7 season until seeing Woodson’s potential starting lineup tonight if Melo is out.

      Maybe Woodson is getting advice from Isiah on who to start?? lol

    28. Robtachi

      Sovereign:
      Okay. Tickets have been secured for the 27th, when the Grizzlies come into MSG. Section 115 in MSG is where I’ll be at.

      Can’t wait!

      My birthday game! I’ve been trying to get to that one any way I can.

    29. cgreene

      AnonymousODG:
      Part of me wonders what sort of wisdom Woodson thinks he has tapped into by not starting his best players.This notion of bringing in a compromised starting unit to hold the line while using a stronger second unit to take advantage of the other team’s bench is only clever on the surface.

      Over the many decades of NBA, collegiate and high school basketball… that’s just not how you do it.What makes this team a unique exception?If Smith and STAT supposedly don’t play well with Melo being featured on the offense, that’s a problem Woodson is supposed to tackle directly, rather than run away from with this ridiculous lineup tinkering.

      This team is not unique in the face of basketball history.And it’s become apparent that this is nothing but Woodson’s fear of failing like D’Antoni did to mesh his best players together and haphazardly hoping for lightning in the bottle by not even attempting to do so.

      THIS!

    30. stratomatic

      IMO Woodson in not a very good coach.

      All he did last year was keep the D’Antoni offense in place. He was already the defensive coach (and they weren’t that good defensively even with the addition of Chandler). The reason they played so much better for him was partly that they got healthier at PG, they added JR, and partly because Melo was not giving 100% for D’Antoni because he didn’t like the offense and wanted a coaching change.

      Furthermore, even though were coming off a tough period when D’Antoni left, there were actually already signs they were starting to jell and play better in some of the tough losses.

      This year they got off to a great start because Kidd was playing great and several other players were shooting 3s way above their long term average. It was luck combined with being a decent team.

      But now the other teams are adjusting, he has to make adjustments back, he has to make his own line up decisions etc.. the shooting has reverted to the mean, and it’s all falling apart because he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

      They have talent. So they will win games, but he isn’t helping and may be hurting at this stage.

    31. Owen

      I don’t know what I am doing other than noting that the Knicks have been just about as good a team without Melo as they have with him since he arrived, in a 20 game sample. Which is pretty surprising given that he is supposed to be such a superstar. And a lot of those wins happened without Amare too.

      But maybe it isn’t surprising. It does happen all the time in the NBA, the Celtics being the latest case….

      ruruland: Actually, the corollary is that the Knicks are a lot better without Melo because Ray Felton becomes a superstar in games against great teams that Melo misses.

      Also, we can apply +/- to show that the Knicks are significantly better without Amar’e (the +/- in Melo’s case does not count because he plays at the same time Chandler does)

      Therefore, they are worlds better without both of them.

      You could basically have any lineup in the league and so long as Chandler is playing it’ll be great. Melo and Stoudemire are the only players that diminish Chandler’s effect.

    32. er

      Owen: I don’t know what I am doing other than noting that the Knicks have been just about as good a team without Melo as they have with him since he arrived, in a 20 game sample. Which is pretty surprising given that he is supposed to be such a superstar. And a lot of those wins happened without Amare too. But maybe it isn’t surprising. It does happen all the time in the NBA, the Celtics being the latest case….

      Well in some of those games Jeremy Lin was playing like Jesus Shuttlesworth. So theres that, and the sched has been pretty weak in the games hes missed. But i think the Ewing theory is real, where players pick up the slack when the best player is out …just from a human nature standpoint to show “hey this isnt a one man team”

    33. stratomatic

      Everyone arguing for Shumpert starting has to explain to me why they feel that way.

      As far as I am concerned, he has been terrible so far this year.

      Last year he was a terrible shooter with terrible shot selection, but he was at least a threat to score, you could see some upside, and he was an impact defender. This year he’s been all around bad on offense and not as good on defense.

      The only justification for starting him is that they don’t have a better alternative, especially now that they got rid of Brewer, who played solid defense and rarely made a bad play even though he didn’t score.

    34. BigBlueAL

      On a side note, first Granderson now Tex is out 8 to 10 weeks. I really need the Knicks to play deep into May this year because not sure I can handle watching the Yankees in April and early May.

    35. Owen

      Not sure you can bring these things up enough. At least I didn’t mention how much better the Nuggets have been without Melo right?

      Frank O.:
      Repetitive theme alert!

    36. AnonymousODG

      stratomatic:
      The only justification for starting him is that they don’t have a better alternative

      Ding, ding, ding?

      Talk about answering your own question.

    37. er

      Owen: Not sure you can bring these things up enough. At least I didn’t mention how much better the Nuggets have been without Melo right?

      how much better are the nuggets with out melo? They have yet to claim the 2 seed which melo nuggets did?

    38. stratomatic

      Owen:
      I don’t know what I am doing other than noting that the Knicks have been just about as good a team without Melo as they have with him since he arrived, in a 20 game sample. Which is pretty surprising given that he is supposed to be such a superstar. And a lot of those wins happened without Amare too.

      But maybe it isn’t surprising. It does happen all the time in the NBA, the Celtics being the latest case….

      Some things are easier replace than others.

      Melo is basically a high volume slightly above average efficiency scorer over his career. That’s not that tough to replace if you move the ball and the team has a couple of other guys that can create their own shot.

      What’s tough to replace is a great playmaker, a high volume high efficiency scorer, or game changing defender. There aren’t many of them.

      The fact that the Celts have been good without Rondo is a bit of a surprise to me, but I think that’s a case of the other Celts just rounding into top form late in the season like last year. I think if they had Rondo right now, they would be chasing down the Knicks.

    39. Frank O.

      Please. Let me assert a point here, for probably the 50th time.
      The Knicks struggle because of their back court most every game.
      Early in the season, Kidd and Felton played great and JR was a different guy. But one guy got old, quick, the other got hurt and the last is way more interested in his pipe.
      The result? You have two big men, Chandler and Amare, who need space and dishes to succeed, and the other is, however capable of getting his own shot, less efficient doing so going it alone.
      This is a toxic mix and the talent level we have isn’t going to overcome that hurdle against very good teams, and sometimes not even bad teams.
      The guards are the key.
      Personally, there is no way JR should have his usage where it is. Amare needs way more touches. There is no way Felton should be shooting as much as he does, those shots need to go to better shooters. There is also no way Melo should be going 40+ every damn night…Not playing as an undersized PF. Amare should be absorbing those extra minutes to put Melo in the 32-35 range.
      The guards have been mediocre at best over the season despite playing well early.
      We can say Melo this, Melo that. With him, without him. With Amare, with him.
      But at the end of the day, you have old, fragile, the pipe, and a young man coming off a terrible injury, all in the back court. Period.
      If you have a car with a flat, you can juice the engine, paint it up nice, but at the end you still have a car with a bad wheel.
      All this shit is so misdirected. At the core of it is anger that the Knicks paid too much for Amare and Melo, to the degree that they can’t afford a better back court.
      Get over it.

    40. er

      stratomatic: Some things are easier replace than others. Melo is basically a high volume slightly above average efficiency scorer over his career. That’s not that tough to replace if you move the ball and the team has a couple of other guys that can create their own shot. What’s tough to replace is a great playmaker, a high volume high efficiency scorer, or game changing defender. There aren’t many of them. The fact that the Celts have been good without Rondo is a bit of a surprise to me, but I think that’s a case of the other Celts just rounding into top form late in the season like last year. I think if they had Rondo right now, they would be chasing down the Knicks.

      lol you just said its not that tough to replace and then named 3 things you need to replace it

    41. Frank O.

      stratomatic: Some things are easier replace than others.

      Melo is basically a high volume slightly above average efficiency scorer over his career.That’s not that tough to replace if you move the ball and the team has a couple of other guys that can create their own shot.

      What’s tough to replace is a great playmaker, a high volume high efficiency scorer, or game changing defender.There aren’t many of them.

      The fact that the Celts have been good without Rondo is a bit of a surprise to me, but I think that’s a case of the other Celts just rounding into top form late in the season like last year. I think if they had Rondo right now, they would be chasing down the Knicks.

      I think Rondo is adding by subtracting. He is not well liked on that team. He is a bit weird, and I suspect they play better together when he is not there. There is a reason the Celts have shopped him around from time to time.

    42. ruruland

      Owen mentioned that the Thunder have improved their SRS without Harden by close to 40% and that the Rockets are 2.2 points better with Harden on the bench, right?

      Stratomatic is right, the Knicks are the same team with and without Melo. End of story.

    43. Owen

      Where did you see that about Tex?

      BigBlueAL:
      On a side note, first Granderson now Tex is out 8 to 10 weeks.I really need the Knicks to play deep into May this year because not sure I can handle watching the Yankees in April and early May.

    44. stratomatic

      er: how much better are the nuggets with out melo? They have yet to claim the 2 seed which melo nuggets did?

      I think a couple of teams in the west now are better than the teams Melo’s Denver team was chasing at the time and more importantly they don’t have a healthy younger Nene or Billups now either. The current Denver team is very young and inexperienced at multiple positions, but they haven’t lost much since the time Melo left. They are probably better than the Knicks right now.

    45. ruruland

      Frank O.:
      Please. Let me assert a point here, for probably the 50th time.
      The Knicks struggle because of their back court most every game.
      Early in the season, Kidd and Felton played great and JR was a different guy. But one guy got old, quick, the other got hurt and the last is way more interested in his pipe.
      The result? You have two big men, Chandler and Amare, who need space and dishes to succeed, and the other is, however capable of getting his own shot, less efficient doing so going it alone.
      This is a toxic mix and the talent level we have isn’t going to overcome that hurdle against very good teams, and sometimes not even bad teams.
      The guards are the key.
      Personally, there is no way JR should have his usage where it is. Amare needs way more touches. There is no way Felton should be shooting as much as he does, those shots need to go to better shooters. There is also no way Melo should be going 40+ every damn night…Not playing as an undersized PF. Amare should be absorbing those extra minutes to put Melo in the 32-35 range.
      The guards have been mediocre at best over the season despite playing well early.
      We can say Melo this, Melo that. With him, without him. With Amare, with him.
      But at the end of the day, you have old, fragile, the pipe, and a young man coming off a terrible injury, all in the back court. Period.
      If you have a car with a flat, you can juice the engine, paint it up nice, but at the end you still have a car with a bad wheel.
      All this shit is so misdirected. At the core of it is anger that the Knicks paid too much for Amare and Melo, to the degree that they can’t afford a better back court.
      Get over it.

      Jason Kidd is responsible for like half the Knicks wins this year. They have a great back-court and the best player in the NBA at center.

    46. stratomatic

      er: lol you just said its not that tough to replace and then named 3 things you need to replace it

      I said Melo is not that tough to replace because he has a specific limited skill set that isn’t tough to replace, but there are players that ARE tough to replace. The only one on the Knicks is Chandler.

    47. er

      stratomatic: I think a couple of teams in the west now are better than the teams Melo’s Denver team was chasing at the time and more importantly they don’t have a healthy younger Nene or Billups now either. The current Denver team is very young and inexperienced at multiple positions, but they haven’t lost much since the time Melo left. They are probably better than the Knicks right now.

      They are not better than the knicks. The knicks dont turn the ball over enough for denver to beat them. I think now in the west the top 3 teams are better than the 09-11 nuggets. The Grizz are about even or a little behind.

    48. ruruland

      stratomatic: I think a couple of teams in the west now are better than the teams Melo’s Denver team was chasing at the time and more importantly they don’t have a healthy younger Nene or Billups now either. The current Denver team is very young and inexperienced at multiple positions, but they haven’t lost much since the time Melo left. They are probably better than the Knicks right now.

      The current Nuggets team doesn’t have a single player that was on the Melo-Nuggets team. We’ve been over it a dozen times.

      Yet, Owen continues to make this point.

      Harden is clearly a much better comparison. And no, obviously Harden made both teams better, but we have to stoop to Owen’s sophistry and buffoonery because some people take him seriously around here.

    49. ruruland

      stratomatic: I said Melo is not that tough to replace because he has a specific limited skill set that isn’t tough to replace, but there are players that ARE tough to replace.The only one on the Knicks is Chandler.

      Yes, there are players literally rotting away at the end of benches on bad teams across the league that generate the double-teams Melo does.

    50. ruruland

      stratomatic: I think a couple of teams in the west now are better than the teams Melo’s Denver team was chasing at the time and more importantly they don’t have a healthy younger Nene or Billups now either. The current Denver team is very young and inexperienced at multiple positions, but they haven’t lost much since the time Melo left. They are probably better than the Knicks right now.

      What is this experience non-sense?

    51. ruruland

      Owen:
      Never mind, saw it….

      Go away and change the subject because I brought the Harden point up. We all know how it works by now.

    52. er

      stratomatic: I said Melo is not that tough to replace because he has a specific limited skill set that isn’t tough to replace, but there are players that ARE tough to replace. The only one on the Knicks is Chandler.

      lol

    53. ruruland

      stratomatic: I said Melo is not that tough to replace because he has a specific limited skill set that isn’t tough to replace, but there are players that ARE tough to replace.The only one on the Knicks is Chandler.

      Why do you think the Knicks are basically a 60+ win team with Melo on the floor, and a sub.500 team without him this year?

    54. AnonymousODG

      stratomatic: Melo is basically a high volume slightly above average efficiency scorer over his career.That’s not that tough to replace if you move the ball and the team has a couple of other guys that can create their own shot.

      You can only paint Melo as pedestrian in talent by completely ignoring that he is the 2nd highest scorer in the league leading the NBA’s 3rd highest team in offensive efficiency while simultaneously being the complete focus of the other team’s best ball defender and constant double teams. The nearsightedness of your comment is apparent with simple context.

      Suggesting Melo’s contributions can be easily compensated for by simple ball movement and shot creation is almost offensive.

    55. er

      ruruland: The current Nuggets team doesn’t have a single player that was on the Melo-Nuggets team. We’ve been over it a dozen times. Yet, Owen continues to make this point. Harden is clearly a much better comparison. And no, obviously Harden made both teams better, but we have to stoop to Owen’s sophistry and buffoonery because some people take him seriously around here.

      this is in acurate my main man Tywon Lawson is still there

    56. d-mar

      Amazing that we’re still going over this Melo/Nuggets BS. Absolutely fucking amazing.

    57. er

      stratomatic: I said Melo is not that tough to replace because he has a specific limited skill set that isn’t tough to replace, but there are players that ARE tough to replace. The only one on the Knicks is Chandler.

      The funniest part of this comment is that Tyson is the definition of a limited player. Dont get me wrong I love the guy, but god help him if he is not catching a perfectly thrown lob or the ball right in front of the rim.

    58. ruruland

      Also, it can be plainly demonstrated that if we brought down Melo’s usage to 25-27 % by reducing the number and proportion of challenging shots ( the mid-range jumpers he has to take in the offense with the clock going down) he would be extremely efficient.

      For example, if Melo reduced his isolations by 10 percent of total offensive plays, and if he simply maintained everything else (being an elite pick and roll player, an elite post-player) his true shooting efficiency would rise into the high the 580s/590s.

      Melo is well above average to elite in virtually every offensive shot type per Synergy, especially when we consider assisted baskets, it’s just that his usage is extremely high and is weighted toward those isolation shots.

      And this is where we get into opportunity cost and interactions effects.

      The Knicks best chance to score with 10 seconds or less on the clock outside of continuity offense is when Melo has the ball in his hands. That’s why he takes such a high percentage of his teams shots in those situations.

      It’s best for the Knicks, it destroys Melo’s efficiency.

    59. thenamestsam

      Yay, people are saying mean things about Melo so Ruru is here to post useless sarcastic comment after useless sarcastic comment. Great contribution.

      I don’t think it’s that shocking that teams sometimes play better for short stretches without their superstars. As er said above it motivates a lot of the other players to pick up the slack, and on top of that I think it makes a big difference in terms of focus. Without their superstars teams know they don’t have that margin for error and they tend to play with a little extra energy and tenacity I think. Plus I do think it’s probably true that the contributions of stars like Melo and Rondo are somewhat overrated by the general public.

      I also think it’s pretty clear that even if there can be some marginal short term gains it obviously lowers the ceiling on those teams. Yes, the Celtics are playing pretty great right now, but their ceiling is clearly lower than it was before. I don’t think anyone is as afraid to play them in a playoff series as they would be with Rondo. And yes, the Knicks may be 12-8 or whatever (depending on how you count it) over the last 2 years without Melo, but I sincerely doubt they could keep that up over any sort of long stretch without him. As teams started to scout what the Melo-less Knicks were doing offensively and adapt to it the offense would dry up mighty quick.

    60. ruruland

      er: this is in acurate my main man Tywon Lawson is still there

      Yes, Ty. True. can’t forget Ty, starting to play really well again.

    61. jon abbey

      er: The funniest part of this comment is that Tyson is the definition of a limited player. Dont get me wrong I love the guy, but god help him if he is not catching a perfectly thrown lob or the ball right in front of the rim.

      and his effort on D has been sporadic at best this year. amazing when he gives his all, but that has not been especially often so far this season.

    62. Frank O.

      ruruland: Jason Kidd is responsible for like half the Knicks wins this year. They have a great back-court and the best player in the NBA at center.

      *snicker*

    63. Frank O.

      ruruland:
      Also, it can be plainly demonstrated that if we brought down Melo’s usage to 25-27 % by reducing the number and proportion of challenging shots ( the mid-range jumpers he has to take in the offense with the clock going down) he would be extremely efficient.

      For example, if Melo reduced his isolations by 10 percent oftotal offensive plays, and if he simply maintained everything else (being an elite pick and roll player, an elite post-player) his true shooting efficiency would rise into the high the 580s/590s.

      Melo is well above average to elite in virtually every offensive shot type per Synergy, especially when we consider assisted baskets, it’s just that his usage is extremely high and is weighted toward those isolation shots.

      And this is where we get into opportunity cost and interactions effects.

      The Knicks best chance to score with 10 seconds or less on the clock outside of continuity offense is when Melo has the ball in his hands. That’s why he takes such a high percentage of his teams shots in those situations.

      It’s best for the Knicks, it destroys Melo’s efficiency.

      And this is part of what I was saying about that back court. He’s being asked to do too much, and then being criticized for it.

    64. ruruland

      thenamestsam:
      Yay, people are saying mean things about Melo so Ruru is here to post useless sarcastic comment after useless sarcastic comment. Great contribution.

      Hey, I’ve tired of it as much if not more than anyone else.

    65. ruruland

      Frank O.: And this is part of what I was saying about that back court. He’s being asked to do too much, and then being criticized for it.

      Right.

    66. thenamestsam

      ruruland: Hey, I’ve tired of it as much if not more than anyone else.

      Then stop doing it? You’re (in my opinion) the most knowledgeable basketball fan who posts here and posts like #69 rebut their points while moving the conversation forward. There’s no need for the posts that only serve to mock other people.

    67. ruruland

      Melo’s Synergy profile compared to extremely efficient more limited offensive players around the league.

      Carmelo Anthony
      Isolation: .87ppp (ranks 44th in league) accounts for 28% of total plays.

      P&R Ballhandler: 1.04 ppp (ranks 4th in league) accounts for 11.7 % of plays

      Post-up: .98 ppp (ranks 13th in league) accounts for 18 % of total plays

      P&R Roll man: 1.5 ppp (ranks second in league) accounts for 2% of plays

      Spot-up: 1.11 (ranks 66th in league) accounts for 16.3 % of total plays .

      Off-screen: 1.06 (ranks 20th) accounts for 5 %

      Cut: .88 ( ranks 188th) accounts 2.4%

      Orebound: 1.24 (ranks 18th) accounts for 3.6%

      Transition: 1.16 (ranks 118th) accounts for 8.4 %

      Other plays: .58 (ranks 37th) accounts for 3.8 %

    68. thenamestsam

      Frank O.: And this is part of what I was saying about that back court. He’s being asked to do too much, and then being criticized for it.

      Well said. Very few players have the energy and ability to really do it all on the basketball court (in fact I’d say there’s really currently only 1). One of the most interesting things with Harden this year to me has been that in shifting to a higher usage and more minutes it hasn’t been his efficiency that has suffered, but his defense. He was significantly better than given credit for on D last year, but he has completely fallen apart this year on that end. Think that has anything to do with the greater workload he is carrying on the offensive side?

    69. ruruland

      thenamestsam: Then stop doing it? You’re (in my opinion) the most knowledgeable basketball fan who posts here and posts like #69 rebut their points while moving the conversation forward. There’s no need for the posts that only serve to mock other people.

      I’ve done that so many times though with a few posters here. It just seems more efficient to try to shoot them down early instead of re-hashing the same arguments they’ve never, and I mean never, acknowledged.

      Very difficult to try to move conversation forward (as I’d love to ) when people are stuck in the past and stuck in old arguments that have been roundly defeated and aren’t even applicable to current state of affairs.

    70. ruruland

      What middling/somewhat high (22-27%) usage, high efficiency players do you folks want to compare Melo with before the game starts tonight? I’ll post a few if you don’t have any in mind.

    71. DRed

      Why don’t other high volume, high efficiency superstars have the same problem that Melo does? Basically what you’re arguing is that if you ignore the things that Melo is bad it, he’s totally awesome. Which is true, except that he does do those other things, and that lowers his value.

      Granted, it’s true that Melo’s mere presence on the court makes everyone else a better shooter, so you have to factor in the value he’s created by making Ray Felton and JR Smith such ruthlessly efficient scorers this year, but I still don’t think that makes up for his lack of elite efficiency, relatively poor rebounding, and his inconsistent defense and passing.

    72. ruruland

      thenamestsam: Well said. Very few players have the energy and ability to really do it all on the basketball court (in fact I’d say there’s really currently only 1). One of the most interesting things with Harden this year to me has been that in shifting to a higher usage and more minutes it hasn’t been his efficiency that has suffered, but his defense. He was significantly better than given credit for on D last year, but he has completely fallen apart this year on that end. Think that has anything to do with the greater workload he is carrying on the offensive side?

      Yeah, Owen claimed the other day that Harden was a two-way superstar. Sort of laughable honestly, forget the eye test, he is 294th in Synergy and the Rockets defense is 2.4 points better with him on the bench, . He gambles a hell of a lot though and that really helps them in transition.

      But yeah, he’s definitely a sieve which is different than in year’s past with fewer minutes and reduced burden.

    73. Frank O.

      thenamestsam: Well said. Very few players have the energy and ability to really do it all on the basketball court (in fact I’d say there’s really currently only 1). One of the most interesting things with Harden this year to me has been that in shifting to a higher usage and more minutes it hasn’t been his efficiency that has suffered, but his defense. He was significantly better than given credit for on D last year, but he has completely fallen apart this year on that end. Think that has anything to do with the greater workload he is carrying on the offensive side?

      It may also have something to do with the coaches philosophy. The rockets are an offensively focused team. One could easily argue thunder was more balanced

    74. ruruland

      DRed:
      Why don’t other high volume, high efficiency superstars have the same problem that Melo does?

      Hold the phone, how many high-efficiency, high-volume players are there in the league?

      Melo LEADS the NBA in usage, so, point in fact, he takes more shots than anyone else in the league.

      The question is what are the kinds of shots he takes that others aren’t taking.

      Lebron and Durant are on their own planets. Surely there are other players in the league we can compare Melo to to get a sense of his value.

      Also, Melo’s rebound numbers are low as we’ve pointed out time after time after time, but he’s also done a stellar job face blocking out larger opponents all year. Melo isn’t big enough or a high enough leaper to both block out his man and jump over traffic for a rebound, but he does the former very well, and it gives his teammates the chance to swoop in.

      No coincidence that the Knicks are a better rebounding team with Melo on the floor by nearly two rebounds per 48 minutes, even when they have bigger lineups when he goes to the bench.

    75. AnonymousODG

      thenamestsam: Well said. Very few players have the energy and ability to really do it all on the basketball court (in fact I’d say there’s really currently only 1). One of the most interesting things with Harden this year to me has been that in shifting to a higher usage and more minutes it hasn’t been his efficiency that has suffered, but his defense. He was significantly better than given credit for on D last year, but he has completely fallen apart this year on that end. Think that has anything to do with the greater workload he is carrying on the offensive side?

      I thought it was common knowledge that Houston doesn’t play defense. Not because they can’t, but because they don’t care when they score at such a high clip.

    76. Frank O.

      ruruland:
      What middling/somewhat high (22-27%) usage, high efficiency players do you folks want to compare Melo with before the game starts tonight? I’ll post a few if you don’t have any in mind.

      Amare falls into the usage range, but I don’t consider him middling.

    77. ruruland

      DRed:
      Why don’t other high volume, high efficiency superstars have the same problem that Melo does?Basically what you’re arguing is that if you ignore the things that Melo is bad it, he’s totally awesome.Which is true, except that he does do those other things, and that lowers his value.

      Granted, it’s true that Melo’s mere presence on the court makes everyone else a better shooter, so you have to factor in the value he’s created by making Ray Felton and JR Smith such ruthlessly efficient scorers this year, but I still don’t think that makes up for his lack of elite efficiency, relatively poor rebounding, and his inconsistent defense and passing.

      What I’m saying is that there are very few high-usage players in the league for a reason. Among those pool of high usage players, you have a few who are extremely efficient, and then you have Melo, who takes far more difficult shots than Lebron, Durant and Harden in the half-court.

      That simply cannot be disputed.

      Now, a 5 % reduction in usage to get to Harden’s usage numbers is pretty significant. Melo probably wouldn’t be a .606 TS guy on 28.8 usage, but he’d be much closer to .600 TS just given the efficiency with which he shots in most of these shots that aren’t so closely associated with extreme usage players.

    78. jon abbey

      ruruland: Also, Melo’s rebound numbers are low as we’ve pointed out time after time after time, but he’s also done a stellar job face blocking out larger opponents all year. Melo isn’t big enough or a high enough leaper to both block out his man and jump over traffic for a rebound, but he does the former very well, and it gives his teammates the chance to swoop in.

      No coincidence that the Knicks are a better rebounding team with Melo on the floor by nearly two rebounds per 48 minutes, even when they have bigger lineups when he goes to the bench.

      yeah, it’s become increasingly clear to me this year how dubious individual rebounding totals are, team totals are what should be looked at (and offensive and defensive separated from each other).

    79. ruruland

      Frank O.: Amare falls into the usage range, but I don’t consider him middling.

      Yes, he does, and nearly 60% of his makes are assisted, with Melo it’s about 41%.

      That’s actually a superb number for Amar’e, but we can see over his history and those of high un-assisted players that it would be virtually impossible to increase his usage above 30%, let alone 34%, without dramatically decreasing his assisted basket %, and therefore decreasing his shooting efficiency.

      But his self-created post-up offense make a big difference from the past.

    80. Frank O.

      Melo usg% 31.1, TS% .559
      Middling small forwards:
      Copeland usage% 21.7, TS% .580
      Pierce usg% 25.3 , TS% .545
      George usg% 22.3, Ts% .537
      Corey Brewer usg% 21, TS% .505
      Josh smith usg% 24.4, TS% .492

      That’s pretty much it.
      Copeland surprised me. Lots of garbage time, but an NBA caliber scorer.

    81. DRed

      ruruland: What I’m saying is that there are very few high-usage players in the league for a reason. Among those pool of high usage players, you have a few who are extremely efficient, and then you have Melo, who takes far more difficult shots than Lebron, Durant and Harden in the half-court.

      That simply cannot be disputed.

      How do you know that Melo takes more difficult shots? That may be true, but how are you defining that? And why don’t those other players take as many bad shots? Could it be that they’re better at creating good shots, and therefore more valuable than Carmelo?

    82. Frank O.

      ruruland: Yes, he does, and nearly 60% of his makes are assisted, with Melo it’s about 41%.

      That’s actually a superb number for Amar’e, but we can see over his history and those of high un-assisted players that it would be virtually impossible to increase his usage above 30%, let alone 34%, without dramatically decreasing his assisted basket %, and therefore decreasing his shooting efficiency.

      But his self-created post-up offense make a big difference from the past.

      The counter argument of course is that just because Melo can create his own shot, it doesn’t mean he should. This is where guards And coaches fail. You’d probably see Melo’s assisted scoring increase over the 50% level, along with his efficiency, on a Nash, Paul or even Williams run team.
      If it didn’t, then people could argue he’s simply a ball hog taking dumb shots.
      I forget. Who were his guards over in Denver?

    83. ruruland

      DRed: How do you know that Melo takes more difficult shots?That may be true, but how are you defining that?And why don’t those other players take as many bad shots?Could it be that they’re better at creating good shots, and therefore more valuable than Carmelo?

      Isolations have a lower ppp than basically any shot in the league. Melo takes a lot of them because he has to create offense for a team with many low usage, non-shot creators or extremely poor self-shot creators (Felton, Smith).

      That’s why when we look at how Melo fares in other shot situations, he’s actually extremely efficient.

      His usage is high and weighted towards challenging self-created shots.

      If someone told Melo, hey, reduce your isolation attempts by 50% (to something closer to average for middling usage wing like 15-17%) let others on the team take more of those shots,
      Melo would still be a high usage player, (I would guess somewhere in the 26-27 % range without doing the math) and extremely efficient given how well he shoots on all of these other shot types.

      Hold on, let me prove this to you, give me a few minutes.

    84. DRed

      I mean, my main criticism of Carmelo as a scorer is that he takes too many bad shots. I’m not sure how saying ‘yeah, but his usage is the highest in the league’ excuses that. That seems to prove my point. He should stop shooting so much-after all, don’t the players he passes to have the highest eFG over the last 3 seasons?

    85. Owen

      I drafted Tex five days ago in a fantasy league and that was news to me.

      What exactly is your Harden point?

      Sure the Thunder got better. Is that because Harden isn’t awesome?

      If he isn’t it’s pretty hard to explain why the Rockets are better than us this year. Because it can’t be Asik. He can’t score. And it can’t be Lin because Melo drove him off the team.

      Seriously, how are the Rockets better than us if Harden is such a non-essential piece?

      ruruland: Go away and change the subject because I brought the Harden point up. We all know how it works by now.

    86. Donnie Walsh

      ruruland: Hey, I’ve tired of it as much if not more than anyone else.

      Seriously, man, it’s hard to take anything you say seriously. You either have some weird agenda to promote or you are an obsessive psychopath– neither of which are traits that breed trust in readership. I have never been around anybody so into the acts of another human being. I have kids and I’m not even as into them as you are into Carmelo Anthony. Hell, does Carmelo Anthony himself even know (or care) about his synergy comparisons, his PPP, or his usage% v eFG%

      I have the feeling that if Carmelo Anthony’s knee were to keep him out for the rest of the season and playoffs you would root for the Knicks to get swept in the 1st round.

    87. ruruland

      Frank O.: The counter argument of course is that just because Melo can create his own shot, it doesn’t mean he should. This is where guards And coaches fail. You’d probably see Melo’s assisted scoring increase over the 50% level, along with his efficiency, on a Nash, Paul or even Williams run team.
      If it didn’t, then people could argue he’s simply a ball hog taking dumb shots.
      I forget. Who were his guards over in Denver?

      Melo’s assisted baskets were very high with Andre Miller early in his career, prior to him developing a three-point shot. He actually was one of the dunk leaders early in his career, with a lot of off-ball movement.

      But as the team’s he played rely more and more on his half-court shot creation, and brought on worse or less consistent passers, the more Melo’s shot-creation game developed and the greater responsibility he had in the offense.

      Melo with Miller in ’05-’06 when he was amongst the league leaders in dunks and assisted baskets among high usage players:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pKhie5JC7A

    88. johnlocke

      There was an article that was posted sometime back showing that a big reason for Melo’s lower efficiency is that he takes more contested shots than other high usage stars, and that on uncontested shots he actually shoots a higher %. The question then would be why is he shooting more contested shots? Ruru is saying that because we either over-rely on Melo in situations with the shot clock counting down (which I’d agree we do)…Melo doesn’t have another high usage guard like Westbrooke or Wade who can help by taking the pressure off in situation where the shot clock is running down. He has J.R. who also defers to Melo. Melo also teams to take more ‘heat checks’ and generally has worse shot selection than a Durant or Lebron…probably better shot selection than Kobe. Some of it falls on Melo, some of it is because of lack of help, I’d say it probably has more to do with the latter than the former, but I’d need to look at the stats, if they were available.

      DRed: How do you know that Melo takes more difficult shots?That may be true, but how are you defining that?And why don’t those other players take as many bad shots?Could it be that they’re better at creating good shots, and therefore more valuable than Carmelo?

    89. ruruland

      Donnie Walsh: Seriously, man, it’s hard to take anything you say seriously. You either have some weird agenda to promote or you are an obsessive psychopath– neither of which are traits that breed trust in readership. I have never been around anybody so into the acts of another human being. I have kids and I’m not even as into them as you are into Carmelo Anthony. Hell, does Carmelo Anthony himself even know (or care) about his synergy comparisons, his PPP, or his usage% v eFG%

      I have the feeling that if Carmelo Anthony’s knee were to keep him out for the rest of the season and playoffs you would root for the Knicks to get swept in the 1st round.

      It takes me less than a minute to get Melo’s pbr numbers, synergy numbers etc. Poor kids.

    90. ruruland

      Owen:
      I drafted Tex five days ago in a fantasy league and that was news to me.

      What exactly is your Harden point?

      Sure the Thunder got better. Is that because Harden isn’t awesome?

      If he isn’t it’s pretty hard to explain why the Rockets are better than us this year. Because it can’t be Asik. He can’t score. And it can’t be Lin because Melo drove him off the team.

      Seriously, how are the Rockets better than us if Harden is such a non-essential piece?

      Jesus, I’m thinking you may be dealing with early on-set dementia . It’s obvious you can’t remember anything, but you can’t read, either?

    91. ruruland

      DRed: How do you know that Melo takes more difficult shots?That may be true, but how are you defining that?And why don’t those other players take as many bad shots?Could it be that they’re better at creating good shots, and therefore more valuable than Carmelo?

      Think about what you are saying here.

      Those two things seem related, don’t they?

      Could it be that Melo is passing out of situations his teammates are well-equipped to score in and then shooting when they aren’t?

      For example, how many times do we see Melo pass the ball with 7 seconds or less on the clock out on the perimeter?

      He doesn’t pass up low efficiency opportunities. If you watch Harden, he does all the time in the half-court.

    92. ruruland

      Frank O.:
      Melo usg% 31.1, TS% .559
      Middling small forwards:
      Copeland usage% 21.7, TS% .580
      Pierce usg% 25.3 , TS% .545
      George usg% 22.3, Ts% .537
      Corey Brewer usg% 21, TS% .505
      Josh smith usg% 24.4, TS% .492

      That’s pretty much it.
      Copeland surprised me. Lots of garbage time, but an NBA caliber scorer.

      I’m hoping to contrast Melo with higher efficiency guys so I can compare their shot type/distribution.

    93. Frank O.

      ruruland: Melo’s assisted baskets were very high with Andre Miller early in his career, prior to him developing a three-point shot. He actually was one of the dunk leaders early in his career, with a lot of off-ball movement.

      But as the team’s he played rely more and more on his half-court shot creation, and brought on worse or less consistent passers, the more Melo’s shot-creation game developed and the greater responsibility he had in the offense.

      Melo with Miller in ’05-’06 when he was amongst the league leaders in dunks and assisted baskets among high usage players:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pKhie5JC7A

      What really freaks me out is three-fifths of that team is now in a Knicks uni.

    94. DRed

      ruruland: Think about what you are saying here.

      Those two things seem related, don’t they?

      Could it be that Melo is passing out of situations his teammates are well-equipped to score in and then shooting when they aren’t?

      For example, how many times do we see Melo pass the ball with 7 seconds or less on the clock out on the perimeter?

      He doesn’t pass up low efficiency opportunities. If you watch Harden, he does all the time in the half-court.

      I have no idea how many low efficiency opportunities Harden passes up in the half court. I don’t watch Rockets games. I generally think players should pass up low efficiency opportunities, unless there are like 2 or 3 seconds on the shot clock. I do know that Harden has a shit ton more assists than Melo does, so maybe his extra passing isn’t a terrible thing.

      As for your question, I have no idea how often Melo passes from the perimeter with 7 seconds or less on the shot clock.

    95. Frank O.

      ruruland: I’m hoping to contrast Melo with higher efficiency guys so I can compare their shot type/distribution.

      Well, there aren’t any at his position other than Lebron and Durant.
      Harden usg 27.1, TS 606
      Ginobli usg 23.6, TS 589
      Mayo 21.1, TS 574
      Wade 27.4, 573
      Bryant 29.9, 573
      Crawford 24.7, 558
      Griffin 24.2, 578
      Lee 22, 556
      Parker 26.9, 595
      Paul 23.6, 590
      Curry 24.9, 583
      Irving 28.9, 567

    96. ruruland

      How about we compare Melo with Gallo?

      Carmelo Anthony
      Isolation: .87ppp (ranks 44th in league) accounts for 28% of total plays.
      P&R Ballhandler: 1.04 ppp (ranks 4th in league) accounts for 11.7 % of plays
      Post-up: .98 ppp (ranks 13th in league) accounts for 18 % of total plays
      P&R Roll man: 1.5 ppp (ranks second in league) accounts for 2% of plays
      Spot-up: 1.11 (ranks 66th in league) accounts for 16.3 % of total plays .
      Off-screen: 1.06 (ranks 20th) accounts for 5 %
      Cut: .88 ( ranks 188th) accounts 2.4%
      Orebound: 1.24 (ranks 18th) accounts for 3.6%
      Transition: 1.16 (ranks 118th) accounts for 8.4 %
      Other plays: .58 (ranks 37th) accounts for 3.8 %

      Danilo Gallinari Synergy profile

      Isolation .91 (27th) 22%
      P&R balhandler .78 (79th) 9.3%
      P&R Rollman .86 (91st) 5.6%
      Spot up 1.12 (61st) 25.6%
      Off-screen . 82 (72) 3.6%
      Hand-off .66 (58) 3.5 %
      Cut 1.41 (17th) 3.2%
      O rebound 1.27 (11th) 3.3%
      Transition 1.33 (28th) 14.5%
      All other: .69 (16th) 4.9 %

    97. AnonymousODG

      johnlocke:
      There was an article that was posted sometime back showing that a big reason for Melo’s lower efficiency is that he takes more contested shots than other high usage stars, and that on uncontested shots he actually shoots a higher %. The question then would be why is he shooting more contested shots?

      What article was this? There was also an article sometime back that said Melo was ahead of Lebron and Durant in offensive player efficiency. Then again, that was back when he was draining threes like nobody’s business. The answer to your question is a rather obvious one though: he’s shooting more contested shots because the Knicks’ backcourt and JR are playing much worse than they were.

    98. ruruland

      DRed: I have no idea how many low efficiency opportunities Harden passes up in the half court.I don’t watch Rockets games.I generally think players should pass up low efficiency opportunities, unless there are like 2 or 3 seconds on the shot clock.I do know that Harden has a shit ton more assists than Melo does, so maybe his extra passing isn’t a terrible thing.

      As for your question, I have no idea how often Melo passes from the perimeter with 7 seconds or less on the shot clock.

      37% of Melo’s shots come in the last 8 seconds of the shot clock.

      27% of Harden’s shots come in the last 8 seconds of the shot clock.

      That obviously has a dramatic effect on efficiency, as we can see shots later in the clock are much less efficient. Melo

      http://www.82games.com/1213/12HOU6.HTM

      http://www.82games.com/1213/12NYK10.HTM

      If we take a loot at efficiency by shot clock situation, Melo compares pretty favorably to Harden.

    99. Owen

      I don’t disagree that there is something to be learned in these areas. I think we dumb stat types have finally cottoned to the fact that there are hidden tradeoffs when it comes to rebounding on both ends. Clearly you give up an enormous amount by crashing the o-boards in terms of transition opportunities for the other team. And there is definitely a diminishing returns issue with d-rebounding.

      That said, I don’t really know where that leaves Melo and his poor rebounding. I guess the thought is that Melo’s poor r-rate as a pf doesn’t really matter since we are doing so well as a team. I would be curious to know how things would look on that front if Jason Kidd weren’t out on the court. He is less than a percentage point behind Melo in that dept.

      jon abbey: yeah, it’s become increasingly clear to me this year how dubious individual rebounding totals are, team totals are what should be looked at (and offensive and defensive separated from each other).

    100. ruruland

      I forget to add, Gallo is .9 ppp on post-ups, 36th in league and accounts for 4.5 % of his plays.

      Gallo is a very good offensive player, and his numbers have trended more towards self-creation the last two years, which has damaged his efficiency but probably made his team better.

      However, before you get into the fact there is less balance in the Knicks offense and more attention given to Melo, he’s better in basically every category.

      Here is the difference: 60% of Melo’s attempts or of the self-created variety, which are almost always going to be under 1 ppp for even the best players (Melo’s amazing pick and roll ballhandler efficiency notwithstanding) .

      Gallo? 38% of his shot attempts are of the self-created variety.

      Melo has 570 more of these kinds of plays than Gallo does.

    101. ruruland

      Owen:
      I don’t disagree that there is something to be learned in these areas. I think we dumb stat types have finally cottoned to the fact that there are hidden tradeoffs when it comes to rebounding on both ends. Clearly you give up an enormous amount by crashing the o-boards in terms of transition opportunities for the other team. And there is definitely a diminishing returns issue with d-rebounding.

      That said, I don’t really know where that leaves Melo and his poor rebounding. I guess the thought is that Melo’s poor r-rate as a pf doesn’t really matter since we are doing so well as a team. I would be curious to know how things would look on that front if Jason Kidd weren’t out on the court. He is less than a percentage point behind Melo in that dept.

      Melo isn’t a poor rebounder. He’s giving up his body so his teammates can grab rebounds.

      His +1.9 rr on the floor is identical to Kidds.

    102. Frank O.

      AnonymousODG: What article was this?There was also an article sometime back that said Melo was ahead of Lebron and Durant in offensive player efficiency.Then again, that was back when he was draining threes like nobody’s business.The answer to your question is a rather obvious one though: he’s shooting more contested shots because the Knicks’ backcourt and JR are playing much worse than they were.

      Indeed. I’ve been saying this for some time, yet there seems to be an overwhelming desire among some to simply blame Melo because he makes huge coin for the failings so obviously attributable to the guard play.
      One feeds the other, however. People argue that because of Melo’s price tag – and Amare’s – our guards have to be patchwork to stay under cap.
      Problem is the salary thing is a few years dated now and all we would need would be just competent guard play, not 4 for 18 guard play that includes an inability to keep a defender in front of him…
      But people blame Melo.
      I’ve never been a huge Melo fan. I loved the young players we had. I wanted to see them develop. But that’s old shit, and I think it’s silly to hold a grudge against a guy who got what the market bore.
      And for the most part, the bastard plays hard and long.

    103. Owen

      It could be early on-set dementia. Or i may not read your posts as closely as I should. Not really sure where you are even going with that response to be honest.

      Who is responsible for Houston’s success then? Or is it just a flukey team interaction thing?

      Because I am looking up and down that lineup and there isn’t a single boldfaced name on it, or anyone over 30.

      Is Patrick Beverly the secret superstar carrying that team? Or is he just running it up against the other teams second squad?

      Shed a little light from your synergy account…..

      ruruland: Jesus, I’m thinking you may be dealing with early on-set dementia . It’s obvious you can’t remember anything, but you can’t read, either?

    104. DRed

      ruruland: 37% of Melo’s shots come in the last 8 seconds of the shot clock.

      27% of Harden’s shots come in the last 8 seconds of the shot clock.

      That obviously has a dramatic effect on efficiency, as we can see shots later in the clock are much less efficient. Melo

      http://www.82games.com/1213/12HOU6.HTM

      http://www.82games.com/1213/12NYK10.HTM

      If we take a loot at efficiency by shot clock situation, Melo compares pretty favorably to Harden.

      Knicks shot % in the last 8 seconds

      Chandler-23
      Amare-39
      JR-37
      Kidd-44
      Novak-38
      Prigioni-38
      Wallace-49
      Felton-39
      Copleland-36

      So it loks like Melo takes an essentially average % of his shots later in the shot clock. I would guess that taking about a third of your shots in the last third of the shot clock is not exceptional. What it seems to me is that Melo takes lots of shots late in the shot clock because he takes lots of shots

      The Rockets seem to put an emphasis on shooting early. That’s why Harden has fewer shots late in the shot clock.

    105. max fisher-cohen

      ruruland: Yes, there are players literally rotting away at the end of benches on bad teams across the league that generate the double-teams Melo does.

      Ruru, this is a straw men, and you’ve been using this tactic more and more. You misrepresent other people’s points, exaggerating them to absurdity, and then go all indignant on them. It’s a bully’s tactic. Yeah, it’s stupid to suggest that Chris Copeland is the same as Carmelo Anthony just as it’s stupid to suggest that Ty Lawson is the same as Ray Felton. But no one is making such an extreme point.

      Read stratomatic’s post again:

      stratomatic: Melo is basically a high volume slightly above average efficiency scorer over his career. That’s not that tough to replace if you move the ball and the team has a couple of other guys that can create their own shot.

      What’s tough to replace is a great playmaker, a high volume high efficiency scorer, or game changing defender. There aren’t many of them.

      So to paraphrase, stratomatic is saying that if you have other talented players who while maybe not as great as volume scorers, can combine to consume the shots of the volume scorer (while presumably doing other things better), then you won’t be hurt much from losing a player like Carmelo. If I remember correctly, that is essentially the same argument YOU made when the Nuggets closed out 2010/11 so well without Melo.

      Yeah, you put Melo on the Bobcats, and he might get them 10-15 more wins across a season, but you put him on the Spurs, Miami, or OKC, and he’s not going to have much of an impact since those teams already have players who use their possessions really efficiently.

    106. ruruland

      Owen:

      Because I am looking up and down that lineup and there isn’t a single boldfaced name on it, or anyone over 30.

      Before we acknowledged that you’re attempting to parrot arguments that in the past you dismissed, what do you think is a better indicator, +/- or w/l record in players absence?

      No 2: (Post 57) “The current Nuggets team doesn’t have a single player that was on the Melo-Nuggets team. We’ve been over it a dozen times.
      Yet, Owen continues to make this point.
      Harden is clearly a much better comparison. And no, obviously Harden made both teams better, but we have to stoop to Owen’s sophistry and buffoonery because some people take him seriously around here.”

    107. ruruland

      DRed: Knicks shot % in the last 8 seconds

      Chandler-23
      Amare-39
      JR-37
      Kidd-44
      Novak-38
      Prigioni-38
      Wallace-49
      Felton-39
      Copleland-36

      So it loks like Melo takes an essentially average % of his shots later in the shot clock. I would guess that taking about a third of your shots in the last third of the shot clock is not exceptional.What it seems to me is that Melo takes lots of shots late in the shot clockbecause he takes lots of shots

      The Rockets seem to put an emphasis on shooting early.That’s why Harden has fewer shots late in the shot clock.

      Now take a look at assisted % on those attempts for those other players and compare to Melo. 8 seconds shots are less effective because they tend to be unassisted attempts.

      That does not mean that team’s take unassisted attempts — there is no change in the shot type for guys like Chandler or even Amar’e as he is now.

    108. ruruland

      max fisher-cohen: Ruru, this is a straw men, and you’ve been using this tactic more and more. You misrepresent other people’s points, exaggerating them to absurdity, and then go all indignant on them. It’s a bully’s tactic. Yeah, it’s stupid to suggest that Chris Copeland is the same as Carmelo Anthony just as it’s stupid to suggest that Ty Lawson is the same as Ray Felton. But no one is making such an extreme point.

      Read stratomatic’s post again:

      So to paraphrase, stratomatic is saying that if you have other talented players who while maybe not as great as volume scorers, can combine to consume the shots of the volume scorer (while presumably doing other things better), then you won’t be hurt much from losing a player like Carmelo. If I remember correctly, that is essentially the same argument YOU made when the Nuggets closed out 2010/11 so well without Melo.

      Yeah, you put Melo on the Bobcats, and he might get them 10-15 more wins across a season, but you put him on the Spurs, Miami, or OKC, and he’s not going to have much of an impact since those teams already have players who use their possessions really efficiently.

      You mean diminishing returns is a thing? Would the Spurs go 82-0 with Lebron and Durant in place of whomever?

      Of course not, you’re still missing the points I’ve made here and I’m tired of repeating myself.

    109. Frank O.

      The key to the poor play, btw, rests with JR, who has a high usage but extremely low efficiency. Usg, 22.7 and TS of 497, or 49th out of 62 SGs.
      Coupled with is moments of boneheadedness, he is killing us.

    110. ruruland

      MFC, obviously a team with balanced usage and efficiency wouldn’t need a high usage player, but you’ve yet to consider a how a previously high-usage player would fit into a situation that demands less usage of him.

      Not all players, obviously, can become moderately efficient high-usage players, but based on efficiency in lower-usage situations, high usage players can become more efficiency when decreasing usage, depending on the change in shot type.

      Look at Boston’s big 3.

      If we look at Melo’s shot type profile, he’d fit in great in a less-usage situation given how efficient he is certain situations.

      Strato is arguing that high-volume scoring is a particular skill, when a deeper look reveals that there are only shot types and needs.

    111. DRed

      ruruland: You mean diminishing returns is a thing? Would the Spurs go 82-0 with Lebron and Durant in place of whomever?

      Of course not, you’re still missing the points I’ve made here and I’m tired of repeating myself.

      Oh bullshit-you consistently misstate others arguments, beat the stuffing out of a strawman you set up, and then crow about how everyone else is a coward who is afraid to debate you. You take more unprovoked shots at other posters than anyone on this board. If you’re going to be a disingenuous bully, don’t whine when people call you out on it.

    112. max fisher-cohen

      ruruland: You mean diminishing returns is a thing? Would the Spurs go 82-0 with Lebron and Durant in place of whomever?

      Of course not, you’re still missing the points I’ve made here and I’m tired of repeating myself.

      Are you saying you agree?

    113. ruruland

      DRed: Oh bullshit-you consistently misstate others arguments, beat the stuffing out of a strawman you set up, and then crow about how everyone else is a coward who is afraid to debate you.You take more unprovoked shots at other posters than anyone on this board.If you’re going to be a disingenuous bully, don’t whine when people call you out on it.

      The only strawman is you mistaking intentionally absurd satire as strawmen.

      Owen and Jowles are the only two people I attack here. And yes, they are cowards, among other things.

    114. Owen

      “The current Nuggets team doesn’t have a single player that was on the Melo-Nuggets team. We’ve been over it a dozen times.
      Yet, Owen continues to make this point.”

      Well, Lawson. And Miller, in a roundabout way. But they have Gallo. Who they traded Melo for and who is basically as good as Melo. And who, at the time of the trade, had basically identical numbers by many measures. And who is a lot younger and cheaper.

      I really don’t want to argue why they are better than they were with Melo and better than the Knicks with Melo. Just the fact that that is how things stand right now is enough for me bring it up. It seems like a necessary corrective to all the Melo praise you have been trying to forcefeed us for three years…..

    115. ruruland

      Owen:
      “The current Nuggets team doesn’t have a single player that was on the Melo-Nuggets team. We’ve been over it a dozen times.
      Yet, Owen continues to make this point.”

      Well, Lawson. And Miller, in a roundabout way. But they have Gallo. Who they traded Melo for and who is basically as good as Melo. And who, at the time of the trade, had basically identical numbers by many measures. And who is a lot younger and cheaper.

      I really don’t want to argue why they are better than they were with Melo and better than the Knicks with Melo. Just the fact that that is how things stand right now is enough for me bring it up. It seems like a necessary corrective to all the Melo praise you have been trying to forcefeed us for three years…..

      Maybe I shouldn’t argue with an Alzheimer’s patient.

    116. Owen

      Taking the high road. Fair enough.

      Look, when you have suitable response to why the Nuggets are so good despite losing a putative NBA superstar let me know….

    117. ruruland

      Owen:
      Taking the high road. Fair enough.

      Look, when you have suitable response to why the Nuggets are so good despite losing a putative NBA superstar let me know….

      Again, answered that plenty of times from a variety of angles.
      just stop.

    118. DRed

      ruruland: Again, answered that plenty of times from a variety of angles.
      just stop.

      What sort of coward can’t answer a simple question?

    119. ruruland

      Owen:
      Taking the high road. Fair enough.

      Look, when you have suitable response to why the Nuggets are so good despite losing a putative NBA superstar let me know….

      Surely you can take find any one of many responses on this subject by using the site’s search tool.

      Why are the Thunder better than last year, and why are the Rockets worse with Harden on the floor?

    120. Donnie Walsh

      ruruland: Maybe I shouldn’t argue with an Alzheimer’s patient.

      Nothing against Arizona State, but I’m pretty sure Owen’s intellectual résumé can stand up to yours.

    121. ruruland

      Donnie Walsh: Nothing against Arizona State, but I’m pretty sure Owen’s intellectual résumé can stand up to yours.

      Only if his (supposed) “intellectual résumé” were on par with his intellect, if that’s where you want to go with this.

    122. DRed

      ruruland: Surely you can take find any one of many responses on this subject by using the site’s search tool.

      Why are the Thunder better than last year, and why are the Rockets worse with Harden on the floor?

      Why are the Knicks so much better with Stat off the court? Is it possible that basic +/- statistics are widely known to be flawed? Maybe you should change the subject again and start talking about how everyone else is a coward. Or maybe start whining about how you’ve answered this all before. Or maybe claim you’ll get back to me later, but then just go off into a bunch of personal attacks. At best, you can cherry pick some stats that make your favorite players look good, make up some bullshit to explain away any weaknesses they have, and then totally fail to apply to the same standards to players you dislike, all the while boasting about how smart you are and belittling anyone who disagrees with you. Oh, and do it through the maximum number of posts possible.

    123. ruruland

      DRed: Why are the Knicks so much better with Stat off the court?Is it possible that basic +/- statistics are widely known to be flawed?Maybe you should change the subject again and start talking about how everyone else is a coward. Or maybe start whining about how you’ve answered this all before.Or maybe claim you’ll get back to me later, but then just go off into a bunch of personal attacks.At best, you can cherry pick some stats that make your favorite players look good, make up some bullshit to explain away any weaknesses they have, and then totally fail to apply to the same standards to players you dislike, all the while boasting about how smart you are and belittling anyone who disagrees with you.Oh, and do it through the maximum number of posts possible.

      When you don’t follow the threads it’s easy to get lost or to miss certain things people said in response to others and why they use a certain framework for rebuttals or whatever.

      I’ve never boasted about how smart I am, only that I’ve been able to apply certain reasoning methods, deduction and different kinds of analysis to make pretty accurate predictions, which anyone could have done had they simply looked at what I looked at.

      What specifically haven’t I answered or given my best to respond to, or are you not actually interested in my response?

    124. DRed

      ruruland: When you don’t follow the threads it’s easy to get lost or to miss certain things people said in response to others and why they use a certain framework for rebuttals or whatever.

      I’ve never boasted about how smart I am, only that I’ve been able to apply certain reasoning methods, deduction and different kinds of analysis to make pretty accurate predictions, which anyone could have done had they simply looked at what I looked at.

      What specifically haven’t I answered or given my best to respond to, or are you not actually interested in my response?

      Accurate predictions like Marcus Camby will play 65 games because he knows how to take care of himself? Or that JR will have a near career year? Or Ray Felton won’t shoot like total shit all season? Or that JR and Novak would be the best 3 point shooting combo in basketball? Get the fuck over yourself, ruru. You have no intellectual consistency at all. If you’re going to take shots at, say, James Harden for his on floor/off floor numbers you can’t turn around and write a bunch of self congratulatory crap about how right you were about Amar’e when his on floor/off floor numbers are much worse than Harden’s. I get it, he’s a great hedger on defense, as you point out ad nauseum (and of course, you’re the only one to notice or care about things like that, because the rest of us aren’t true Knicks fans like you), but you have no consistency at all in your arguments. I legitimately like that you’re optimistic, which is a rare thing on the internet, but you seem totally unaware of how often you’re wrong or contradict yourself and you’re a pompous ass to anyone who disagrees with you.

    125. ruruland

      DRed: Accurate predictions like Marcus Camby will play 65 games because he knows how to take care of himself?Or that JR will have a near career year?Or Ray Felton won’t shoot like total shit all season? Or that JR and Novak would be the best 3 point shooting combo in basketball? Get the fuck over yourself, ruru.You have no intellectual consistency at all.If you’re going to take shots at, say, James Harden for his on floor/off floor numbers you can’t turn around and write a bunch of self congratulatory crap about how right you were about Amar’e when his on floor/off floor numbers are much worse than Harden’s.I get it, he’s a great hedger on defense, as you point out ad nauseum (and of course, you’re the only one to notice or care about things like that, because the rest of us aren’t true Knicks fans like you), but you have no consistency at all in your arguments.I legitimately like that you’re optimistic, which is a rare thing on the internet, but you seem totally unaware of how often you’re wrong or contradict yourself and you’re a pompous ass to anyone who disagrees with you.

      I have been wrong on a few things. I did not expect JR to be used on the ball so much.

      You clearly haven’t paid attention to our arguments about Harden or +/-, but since you’ve gone and done a little home work I’m sure you can find it, and than apologize when you’re done.

    126. jon abbey

      Donnie Walsh: Nothing against Arizona State, but I’m pretty sure Owen’s intellectual résumé can stand up to yours.

      this is a lame, low blow, and if you really think where someone goes to college has much to do with how ‘intellectual’ they are a couple of decades later, I genuinely feel bad for you.

    127. jon abbey

      and to be fair, the Alzheimer’s crack was equally lame, although I understand the frustration.

    128. DRed

      What specifically haven’t I answered or given my best to respond to, or are you not actually interested in my response?

      You clearly haven’t paid attention to our arguments about Harden or +/-, but since you’ve gone and done a little home work I’m sure you can find it, and than apologize when you’re done.

      This is classic ruru. Pretend to take the high road, but turn into a condescending prick when someone asks you a question. Oh, why doesn’t anyone seriously engage you in dialogue? Forgive me for not being too interested in your response. Is it because I’m a coward or because I’m too stupid to grasp your genius. After all, you were the one who was right about Camby, Brewer, JR, Felton, Novak and Melo. Oh no-you were wrong (and let’s be real here, you were comically wrong about Camby, JR and Ray Ray) about how all of them would perform? My bad, I guess you just got a few things wrong. But otherwise you were really accurate. I blame it all on not realizing JR would be on the ball so often. And on the fact that Chandler doesn’t take that jumper from the elbow.

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