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Thursday, August 21, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Jun 05 2013)

  • [New York Times] Heat’s Wade Has 2nd Chance at Back-To-Back Titles (Wed, 05 Jun 2013 07:36:04 GMT)
    Dwyane Wade needed a moment to think before giving his answer.    

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Basketball: Hawks’ Letter Is Called a Mistake (Wed, 05 Jun 2013 05:06:24 GMT)
    The Hawks’ president, Bob Williams, said a letter to potential ticket buyers promoting Atlanta’s chances of signing Chris Paul and Dwight Howard was an “unfortunate” mistake.    

  • [New York Times] Sports of The Times: Video: The Valuable Lesson of Grant Hill (Wed, 05 Jun 2013 02:58:03 GMT)
    With his retirement after 19 N.B.A. seasons, Grant Hill leaves behind a legacy far more important than on-court statistics.    

  • [New York Times] Richie Phillips, Union Leader Who Helped and Hurt Umpires, Dies at 72 (Wed, 05 Jun 2013 02:21:22 GMT)
    Mr. Phillips quintupled the salaries of major league baseball umpires as their representative, but caused many of them to lose their jobs by having them resign en masse.    

  • [New York Times] Spurs and Heat, N.B.A. Finalists, Are Strangers in a Familiar Land (Wed, 05 Jun 2013 00:25:16 GMT)
    San Antonio and Miami have combined for nine finals appearances in the last 15 seasons, but it has been more than two years since they have faced off with all their stars playing.    

  • 78 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Jun 05 2013)

    1. Vinny L.

      We have an opportunity to make the mainstream sports media look like the fools they are (for ranking Knicks #25 for their next 3yr projections), by having a young & dangerous backcourt next year:

      Raymond/Nate
      Shump/JR
      Melo/Cope

      http://www.bleacherreport.com/articles/1661249-could-ny-knicks-replace-sixth-man-jr-smith-with-nate-robinson

      Hope the Knicks don’t screw it up!

      P.S.

      Knicks should be worried that nobody in JR’s entourage is telling him that its not cool to party and drink (or smoke) at least during the playoffs??? When you’re a free agent???

      I give Nate major props for at least being smart enough to know when to take advantage of an opportunity.

    2. Nick C.

      Are you Nate’s agent b/c you popped up after the season and have one and only one topic (other than bashing Prigioni)?

    3. Hubert

      ruruland: No, you’re right about Hibbert often not going vertical and also moving while attempting verticality.

      Well yeah, the fact that he was hip checking players while jumping straight up was a sleight of hand trick he pulled off. But I was going on and on about the fact that you go vertical while impeding progress in the restricted area doesn’t absolve you of the blocking foul. According to the rule book, it does.

    4. Hubert

      If we lose JR, I don’t think Nate is a terrible idea as a replacement. But hell I cannot fathom the idea of those two together, and I don’t think Mike Woodson wants to, either.

    5. Vinny L.

      No. I’m born & raised in NY and want to see NY win. Who are you? And And what’s your real name? What exactly is your problem with me like someone who’s productive IN THE PLAYOFF’s over Prigioni? What’s your agenda?

    6. Vinny L.

      @Hubert

      Read the rest of that article and check out survey andd comment section.

      Why can’t we have both (JR & Nate)?

    7. Hubert

      Vinny L.:
      @Hubert

      Read the rest of that article and check out survey andd comment section.

      Why can’t we have both (JR & Nate)?

      1. I’m not reading the comments of a bleacher report article. Ever.

      2. The answer is in the article you posted:

      “It should be noted that I am considering the two signings mutually exclusive. While the Knicks could indeed offer contracts to both guards, that would be redundant and a waste of resources.”

    8. Hubert

      Anyway…wouldn’t Nate be an excellent signing for the Pacers? Or is Nate + Lance also too much headache for one team?

      I don’t want Nate on the Knicks but I would absolutely hate seeing him on the Pacers ripping those discount double checks.

    9. Nick C.

      I’s suspicious of people that drop in out of nowhere with one and oly one thing they ever post about. My agenda is reality. Had you followed the playoffs and/or this board you might be aware that Prigioni was considered a vital part of the Knicks success since his insertion into the staring lineup. Nate had a nice game v. Brooklyn, He also set some sort of NBA playoff record for most shots in an 0fer. My passing viewing of Memphis indicated Quincy Pondexter was able to score. Nate is not the only player out there, just the only one self-promoting on Twitter and with a fan named Vinny. I would rather let those guys who were here and left stay gone and expand our horizons beyond recycling Isaiah’s trash.

      Vinny L.:
      No. I’m born & raised in NY and want to see NY win. Who are you? And And what’s your real name? What exactly is your problem with me like someone who’s productive IN THE PLAYOFF’s over Prigioni? What’s your agenda?

    10. Vinny L.

      Your hatred for Isaiahs kind clouds your judgement to the point where you can’t see anything positive. I’ve noticed a lot of Isaiahs picks going on to be very good players (Nate, Ariza etc.)

      This goes to a deeper hatred that the establishment has for Dolan that I’ve thought about for a long time now but haven’t commented. I’m starting to think the establishment hates Dolan because he’s the owner more likely to give a kid a 2nd or 3rd shot. He roots for the underdog.

      The establishment doesn’t like this because they’re promoting cut backs – austerity – and the lie that nobody has anymore money to pay for these athlete’s (and welfare in America) lol… Yeah right! You have plenty of money to get Nate! LOL!

    11. flossy

      Nate Robinson and JR Smith are basically the same player. Having both of them on the team at once would moronic, since they both feel they deserve major minutes and a lot of shots.

      I’m going to go with the younger, better (especially on defense, where Nate is awful), 9″ taller version, thanks. There is a reason that Nate hasn’t been able to last even one full season with any team since the Knicks cut him loose the first time, and the Bulls don’t seem to be falling over themselves to bring him back despite his playoff “heroics.”

    12. Hubert

      Vinny L.:

      This goes to a deeper hatred that the establishment has for Dolan that I’ve thought about for a long time now but haven’t commented. I’m starting to think the establishment hates Dolan because he’s the owner more likely to give a kid a 2nd or 3rd shot. He roots for the underdog.

      Dude. Dolan *is* the establishment.

    13. Vinny L.

      I don’t understand how people can say JR and Nate are the same man when one man folded under pressure in the PLAYOFF’s and another man who is 8inches shorter SHOWED UP!

    14. johnno

      Vinny L.: the establishment hates Dolan

      Speaking of hatred of Dolan — he’s not the greatest owner in the world, but give the guy credit for one thing — he’s willing to spend money. Can you imagine how this board would have exploded if the Knicks had James Harden and then traded him away for $.50 on the dollar because they didn’t want to pay the luxury tax in a few years?

      Vinny L.: I’ve noticed a lot of Isaiahs picks going on to be very good players (Nate, Ariza etc.)

      David Lee?

    15. Vinny L.

      @Hubert

      I agree that Dolan is establishment, I’m arguing that he’s the “black” sheep of his own class specifically because he believes people from a disadvantaged spot deserves a shot and should be supported. Now I haven’t even looked up Dolan’s background and how he was raised. I’m just making assumptions off of his moves he’s made (Starks, Sprewell, Nate etc).

      I’m saying that Dolan is hated on a deeper level than the dumb moves he’s made. The establishment will never admit to this though…

    16. Spree8nyk8

      Nate on a strong defensive team works bc they can cover up his deficiencies there. It wouldn’t work here imo. Just not a good fit, and one post season stint doesn’t overhaul his body of work. I really hope this doesn’t happen.

    17. Nick C.

      I decided to be more Dolan like and give Nate a second look. Specifically his post-season this year. /36 14.5 FGA 4.7 Ast 2.9 TO 1.1 Steals 3.4 PF 17.4 Pts. Considering that he started 8/12 games mainly if not exclusively at PG, the 4.9 Ast sucks as does the A/TO ratio. The great shooting was a mirage based on one game v. Brooklyn. 3 pt% .338 TSP .539. EFG% .503. Nothing great. PER and WS/48 since some people care and its on the BBREf page 15.8 and 0.061 respectively.

      I have no idea if he is available but since I brought him up before Quincy Pondexter while having a 1.1/0.9 A-TO ratio/36 and 13.4 pts/36 did provide lights out shooting .453 from 3pt. .625 TSP. PER 14.5 WS/48 .141.

    18. BigBlueAL

      Isaiah Canaan being talked up alot lately about possibly being a target for the Knicks at #24.

    19. Z

      Vinny L.:
      @Hubert

      I’m arguing that he’s the “black” sheep of his own class specifically because he believes people from a disadvantaged spot deserves a shot and should be supported. (Starks, Sprewell, Nate etc).

      I think your confusing Starks and Sprewell for Vin Baker and Qyntel Woods…

    20. BigBlueAL

      d-mar:
      From Hahn:

      19 years ago today, Patrick Ewing hugged the garden.

      http://instagram.com/p/aLZkCiEEfT/

      Man, those were the days….

      June 5 is a pretty historic day in Knicks history. Not only winning Game 7 vs Indiana to reach the NBA Finals in 1994 but LJ’s 4pt play in 1999 occurred on June 5 too.

    21. Juany8

      I love Nate and wish him the best of luck this summer, but he’s only a net positive when you have a team in desperate need of some shot creation. That worked on the bulls, who had maybe 2 guys that could dribble the ball past half court and a great defensive team to make up for his lapses, but it wouldn’t help much on the Knicks. Put it this way, any shot Nate can create for himself, Jr and Felton are capable of doing just as well, and both are more consistent rebounders and defenders. Why would the Knicks ever give him the ball? prigs is a much better option for what he does, and if they’re going to being in a 3rd guard, they should bring in someone who can Play good defense while shooting some 3′a and starting the offense, aka the Derrick fisher role on the champion laker teams.

      Nate isn’t a bad player, but his weaknesses would be more pronounced here and several players on the team already possess all the skills Nate has. Would love to get a wing player who can be counted on to hit open 3′s in the playoffs

    22. ruruland

      I disagree with the consensus here. As I’ll show in the next couple of weeks, there is a very strong correlation w/ JR between assisted baskets and efficiency (which is true across the league from year to year, but much more pronounced with JR)…..

      Nate is not a great passer for a pg. We get that. He is, however, a penetrator and shot creator.

      He is a much better creator than JR, and would reduce JR’s responsibilities with the ball in his hand.

      When did JR set his career highs in efficiency?

      Playing off the ball with Allen Iverson, a combo guard who shot more than he passed.

      JR was also much better paired with Chauncey Billups, another shoot-first combo guard.

      The key is that both of those guys reduced JR’s burden to create — he is, more often than not, poor in that role.

      He can do it, but only against proper match-ups.

      Pablo, Kidd and even optimized (reduced usage) Felton, none of those guys are going to alleviate the pressure on JR to try to score.

      Nate can.

      Here are some interesting lineup facts vis-a-vis Nate and the Bulls offense.

      With Nate on the bench, 16.5 % of the Bulls shots were 3-pointers.

      With Nate on the court, 21.4% of the Bulls shots were 3-pointers.

      The Bulls had a 106.5 offensive rating with Nate on the floor and a 101 offensive rating w/out him.

      That’s substantial.

      A fewer percent of the Bulls baskets were assisted with Nate in the game. However, with Nate in the game, mid-range shots were reduced, and paint attempts and 3-pointers increased.

    23. ruruland

      Juany8:
      I love Nate and wish him the best of luck this summer, but he’s only a net positive when you have a team in desperate need of some shot creation. That worked on the bulls, who had maybe 2 guys that could dribble the ball past half court and a great defensive team to make up for his lapses, but it wouldn’t help much on the Knicks. Put it this way, any shot Nate can create for himself, Jr and Felton are capable of doing just as well, and both are more consistent rebounders and defenders. Why would the Knicks ever give him the ball? prigs is a much better option for what he does, and if they’re going to being in a 3rd guard, they should bring in someone who can Play good defense while shooting some 3?a and starting the offense, aka the Derrick fisher role on the champion laker teams.

      Nate isn’t a bad player, but his weaknesses would be more pronounced here and several players on the team already possess all the skills Nate has. Would love to get a wing player who can be counted on to hit open 3?s in the playoffs

      Not true.

      Nate is more efficient at creating his own shot than both Felton and Smith.

    24. ruruland

      Juany8:
      I love Nate and wish him the best of luck this summer, but he’s only a net positive when you have a team in desperate need of some shot creation. That worked on the bulls, who had maybe 2 guys that could dribble the ball past half court and a great defensive team to make up for his lapses, but it wouldn’t help much on the Knicks. Put it this way, any shot Nate can create for himself, Jr and Felton are capable of doing just as well, and both are more consistent rebounders and defenders. Why would the Knicks ever give him the ball? prigs is a much better option for what he does, and if they’re going to being in a 3rd guard, they should bring in someone who can Play good defense while shooting some 3?a and starting the offense, aka the Derrick fisher role on the champion laker teams.

      Nate isn’t a bad player, but his weaknesses would be more pronounced here and several players on the team already possess all the skills Nate has. Would love to get a wing player who can be counted on to hit open 3?s in the playoffs

      In an ideal world, both Nate and Prigs are on the team, with Nate playing the 2-guard and Prigs running much of the offense.

    25. MeloDrama

      Given the multiple point guard looks the Knicks load up on and the 3-ball they love, Robinson seems like a fantastic fit.

    26. Z

      Nate is hard to grasp– he’s the kind of guy that New York should adore. An underdog; a fighter; an unreal athlete; a highlight reel; a ny draft pick… But he somehow never won New York over. Just as he hasn’t won over any other cities.

    27. KnickfaninNJ

      Nate won me over when he played here and I think he’s gotten better since then. But I am still not sure we need him and JR both on the team. Ruruland, I very much look forward to reading your inputs on this question, but please take defense into account. The bleacher report article had some statistics suggesting JRs defense compared to Nate outweighed any offensive deficit, and it didn’t even mention that JR often has the toughest defensive assignment while Nate almost certainly get the easiest assignment. I worry about that.

    28. Juany8

      ruruland: Not true.

      Nate is more efficient at creating his own shot than both Felton and Smith.

      Who cares if he’s a little more efficient, he’s not good enough to be a true second option behind Melo and Felton is better at running the pick and roll and pretty much every non scoring aspect of basketball. The bulls were DESPERATE for someone who could even dribble the ball, on that kind of team Nate has solid value because they need some kind of penetration. Nate might be a little better than JR as a bench spark plug (although I wouldn’t take one nice season as definitive proof of his turnaround) but he’s much worse at everything else. It’s kind of like the copeland debate, sure he can be a nice offensive player, but he sucks at everything else, so when you can get a somewhat less nice offensive player who can actually defend, you play him instead.

      Knicks need to worry about getting healthy and having consistent shooting and defense, simple truth is that if they had made their open shots (Kidd especially lol) and not given up a bunch of stupid buckets (that lance Stephenson performance in game 6 still haunts me) they probably would have advanced despite their poor health. Adding another volatile bench player who can’t defend and isn’t going to be a primary scoring option doesn’t help you much. Of course in case of an injury, this all changes drastically

    29. d-mar

      sive player who can actually defend, you play him instead.

      Knicks need to worry about getting healthy and having consistent shooting and defense, simple truth is that if they had made their open shots (Kidd especially lol) and not given up a bunch of stupid buckets (that lance Stephenson performance in game 6 still haunts me) they probably would have advanced despite their poor health. Adding another volatile bench player who can’t defend and isn’t going to be a primary scoring option doesn’t help you much. Of course in case of an injury, this all changes drastically

      I hear you about Stephenson, I got crucified on this board for saying we got beat by a scrub, as everyone insisted he’s a rising star, but I think in the Miami series you saw the real Lance. Even the one good game he had, he made some absurd low percentage shots.

      In our biggest game of the season, we got beat by a knucklehead. Yuch.

    30. Glew

      While I see how some people suggest Nate would be a net negative and its clearly debatable whether JR is or not as well, I think we gotta go with players that do not get injured, have a high potential and play with heart. I think Nate showed he has those qualities in the playoffs and would be coming for the vet min to mini mid level. Who else is there that wants to be in NY and could come in and be better? If Prigs does decide to come back running him into the ground at 25-30 mins a game should not even be considered an option. I don’t think a rookie PG at 24th overall should be considered an option either.

    31. Douglas

      d-mar: I hear you about Stephenson, I got crucified on this board for saying we got beat by a scrub, as everyone insisted he’s a rising star, but I think in the Miami series you saw the real Lance. Even the one good game he had, he made some absurd low percentage shots.

      In our biggest game of the season, we got beat by a knucklehead. Yuch.

      I fall somewhere in the middle. I think he’s just wildly inconsistent. There’s Good Lance and then there’s Bad Lance.

    32. flossy

      I have a sinking feeling that by November we’ll have added Chris Smith, Nate Robinson and Tony Mitchell to this crew of nobel laureates, leading Mike Woodson to regrow his hair just so he can tear it out in frustration.

    33. KnickfaninNJ

      Weirdly enough, I was thinking about Nate and thinking he might work for Miami. He could back up Wade. If he can play on Chicago’s defense, he can play in Miami’s and they will still have a good defense. They’re capped out, and he might be cheap enough. Any thoughts?

    34. Z

      BigBlueAL: June 5 is a pretty historic day in Knicks history.Not only winning Game 7 vs Indiana to reach the NBA Finals in 1994 but LJ’s 4pt play in 1999 occurred on June 5 too.

      It was also June 5th by the time I finally cried myself to sleep in 1993…

    35. massive

      I actually hate Green’s game for this team. He looks like another “give me the ball” Monta Ellis type of player. Rarely ever does he score off the ball, and that’s a problem when you have Melo, Felton, Stoudemire, and JR Smith on this team. And he is not a good defender. I don’t want anymore of Jeff Teague and Jrue Holiday lighting us up on back to back nights, or Stephen Curry scoring 54 points on us in our building.

      Here’s what this team should be looking for in this draft:

      1) A back-up PG that will eventually supplant Raymond Felton like Ty Lawson/Eric Bledsoe (Schroeder, Canaan, Larkin all fit this role).
      2) A 3&D type like Sefolosha (Reggie Bullock and Allen Crabbe fit this role).
      3) A serviceable and young big like Taj Gibson (Olynyk and Dieng fit this role, but I’d rather we somehow get our hands on T-Rob).

      We don’t need a scorer off the bench like Erick Green appears to be at the next level. We don’t need Nate Robinson. Our 3rd ranked offense does not need more scorers. We need perimeter defense, a better medical staff, and rebounding. And unless a miracle happens, Amar’e is who we are relying on to be our 2nd scoring option (who’s good enough to be a first when healthy), and that will take a miracle by itself.

    36. ruruland

      KnickfaninNJ:
      Nate won me over when he played here and I think he’s gotten better since then.But I am still not sure we need him and JR both on the team. Ruruland,I very much look forward to reading your inputs on this question,but please take defense into account.The bleacher report article had some statistics suggesting JRs defense compared to Nate outweighed any offensive deficit,and it didn’t even mention that JR often has the toughest defensive assignment while Nate almost certainly get the easiest assignment. I worry about that.

      JR is a much better in sort of a fast, semi-transition freelance offense where there is penetration around him and he can find spots on the court.

      His success with Allen Iverson should not be ignored. I think he’d do great with a guy like Robinson creating havoc.

    37. ruruland

      massive:
      I actually hate Green’s game for this team. He looks like another “give me the ball” Monta Ellis type of player. Rarely ever does he score off the ball, and that’s a problem when you have Melo, Felton, Stoudemire, and JR Smith on this team. And he is not a good defender. I don’t want anymore of Jeff Teague and Jrue Holiday lighting us up on back to back nights, or Stephen Curry scoring 54 points on us in our building.

      Here’s what this team should be looking for in this draft:

      1) A back-up PG that will eventually supplant Raymond Felton like Ty Lawson/Eric Bledsoe (Schroeder, Canaan, Larkin all fit this role).
      2) A 3&D type like Sefolosha (Reggie Bullock and Allen Crabbe fit this role).
      3) A serviceable and young big like Taj Gibson (Olynyk and Dieng fit this role, but I’d rather we somehow get our hands on T-Rob).

      We don’t need a scorer off the bench like Erick Green appears to be at the next level. We don’t need Nate Robinson. Our 3rd ranked offense does not need more scorers. We need perimeter defense, a better medical staff, and rebounding. And unless a miracle happens, Amar’e is who we are relying on to be our 2nd scoring option (who’s good enough to be a first when healthy), and that will take a miracle by itself.

      But one could argue that the playoffs exposed the Knicks need for more creativity.

      The Knicks offense is very difficult to defend on short notice, but once a team has a general handle on what to take away and what to give, it becomes much easier to slow down.

      The Knicks have the illusion of multiple options, when in fact, the majority of those options stem from defenders trying to deny penetration or double-teaming Melo.

      More Amar’e and more Copeland make a HUGE difference, of course, but all things being equal, I’d say a creative guard/wing would be about the second thing on my list.

    38. yellowboy90

      I am starting to get on the Mike Muscala hype train. Instead of playing the 5 play him at the 4.

    39. GHenman

      I think if we drafted Green, he and Shumpert would make one of the best backcourts in the league in a few years. He is a very intelligent player who I’m sure would have better assist numbers if he had better teammates. He’s more of a poor man’s Steph Curry than a Monta Ellis. His only question mark is his D, but we have Shumpert to take the tough assignments.

    40. flossy

      ruruland: JR is a much better in sort of a fast, semi-transition freelance offense where there is penetration around him and he can find spots on the court.

      His success with Allen Iverson should not be ignored. I think he’d do great with a guy like Robinson creating havoc.

      We all watched Nate Robinson play here for years, and I assure you, he is no Iverson.

    41. GHenman

      yellowboy90: offensively I see green as George Hill type

      George Hill? He led the nation in scoring! Draft Express has alot of good video on him.

    42. ruruland

      flossy: We all watched Nate Robinson play here for years, and I assure you, he is no Iverson.

      Understood. But he lives in the lane and is completely unpredictable. Nate doesn’t compare as a scorer in general, few ever have (and we don’t have to get into the usage thing again but his impact offensively belied his efficiency), but Robinson’s assist rate the last two years was higher than Felton and Prigioni’s this year (31.4 to 27 and 27.5).

      A 108 ppp combined with a 30 % assist rate certainly gives him a MUCH better offensive profile than any guard the Knicks had on the roster last year — it’s not really close.

      IDK, 18.5/6.5 with low assists per 36 last year, with a 17/7 two years ago in Golden State, those lines look pretty damn good to me.

      He’s a much, much, better, more aware passer than he was in NY.

      He’s just a better player. Fortunately, he hasn’t strung together enough good years for people to trust him yet, which greatly reduces his market value.

      If he does what he did the last two years the next two years, he’ll be a full MLE go or beyond.

      The list of 18/6 per 36 guys in the NBA is pretty small –

    43. flossy

      ruruland: Understood. But he lives in the lane and is completely unpredictable. Nate doesn’t compare as a scorer in general, few ever have (and we don’t have to get into the usage thing again but his impact offensively belied his efficiency), but Robinson’s assist rate the lasttwo yearswas higher than Felton and Prigioni’s this year (31.4 to 27 and 27.5).

      A 108 ppp combined with a 30 % assist rate certainly gives him a MUCH better offensive profile than any guard the Knicks had on the roster last year — it’s not really close.

      IDK, 18.5/6.5 with low assists per 36 last year, with a 17/7 two years ago in Golden State, those lines look pretty damn good to me.

      He’s a much, much, better, more aware passer than he was in NY.

      He’s just a better player. Fortunately, he hasn’t strung together enough good years for people to trust him yet, which greatly reduces his market value.

      If he does what he did the last two years the next two years, he’ll be a full MLE go or beyond.

      The list of 18/6 per 36 guys in the NBA is pretty small –

      So why didn’t GS keep him around? Why are the Bulls even considering letting him go, if he’s only getting a mini-MLE contract, at most, and Derrick Rose is such a question mark?

    44. KnickfaninNJ

      No one can make an offer yet and everyone is playing poker, so I wouldn’t assume Chicago is uninterested

    45. ruruland

      flossy: So why didn’t GS keep him around?Why are the Bulls even considering letting him go, if he’s only getting a mini-MLE contract, at most, and Derrick Rose is such a question mark?

      I don’t think Chicago views Rose as a question mark from last year.

      And I don’t think many teams viewed what Robinson did in GS as sustainable. They were wrong.

      List of 18/6 or 17/7 per 36 guys or better the last two years (must be qualified)

      Deron Williams (18.8/7.7, 20.8/8.7)
      Holliday (17/7.7)
      Rose (22/8)
      *Kyrie Irving is not on the list
      FWIW, Lebron is just short of making the list (though he had higher assist rate than Nate last year)
      John Wall (20/8)
      Westbrook 24/7.5
      Ty Lawson
      Paul
      *Curry did not make list**
      Parker

    46. ruruland

      Robinson a poor man’s Ty Lawson? Or was Lawson a poor man’s Robinson last year?

      2012-13
      Robinson ppp: 1.08
      Lawson ppp: 1.05

      Robinson assist rate: 31.4
      Lawson assist rate: 30.2

      Robinson usage: 25.1
      Lawson usage: 22.3

      2011-12
      Robinson assist rate: 31.8
      Lawson: 30.2

      2012-13 +/-

      Robinson also has superior +/- numbers the last two seasons (Denver has consistently been better with Lawson on the bench, oddly enough).

    47. ruruland

      nate Robinson vs Kyrie Irving

      Robinson ppp 1.08/31.4 assist rate usage 25.1
      Irving ppp 1.07/32.8 assist rate usage 30.2

      Uh, not as good as Irving of course without the great upside, but was basically as efficient as Irving last year. (obviously that’s not sustainable at 30 usage as the No.1 option, but there you go).

      Nate Robinson at the mini-MLE would be a HUGE steal.

    48. yellowboy90

      I wonder how much time JR actually works to improve his game during the summer. His shot has just been off since he came to Ny

    49. ruruland

      Juany8: Who cares if he’s a little more efficient, he’s not good enough to be a true second option behind Melo and Felton is better at running the pick and roll and pretty much every non scoring aspect of basketball. The bulls were DESPERATE for someone who could even dribble the ball, on that kind of team Nate has solid value because they need some kind of penetration. Nate might be a little better than JR as a bench spark plug (although I wouldn’t take one nice season as definitive proof of his turnaround) but he’s much worse at everything else. It’s kind of like the copeland debate, sure he can be a nice offensive player, but he sucks at everything else, so when you can get a somewhat less nice offensive player who can actually defend, you play him instead.

      Knicks need to worry about getting healthy and having consistent shooting and defense, simple truth is that if they had made their open shots (Kidd especially lol) and not given up a bunch of stupid buckets (that lance Stephenson performance in game 6 still haunts me) they probably would have advanced despite their poor health. Adding another volatile bench player who can’t defend and isn’t going to be a primary scoring option doesn’t help you much. Of course in case of an injury, this all changes drastically

      IDK about the idea that Nate can’t defend. Felton can’t defend much, either.

      Also, Copeland made significant progress on defense and rebounding.

      I’m interviewing Copeland either the 20th, 21st or 22nd of the month.

      Let me know if you guys have anything

    50. ruruland

      yellowboy90:
      I wonder how much time JR actually works to improve his game during the summer. His shot has just been off since he came to Ny

      He spends time working on the wrong stuff, i.e. the step back jumper.

    51. Z

      ruruland: His success with Allen Iverson should not be ignored. I think he’d do great with a guy like Robinson creating havoc.

      Your desire to recreate the 2007 Nuggets in 2013 New York would make more sense if the 2007 Nuggets were worth recreating at all.

    52. Z

      ruruland: I’m interviewing Copeland either the 20th, 21st or 22nd of the month.

      Let me know if you guys have anything

      “Did you have posters of Lee Nailon in your room growing up?”

    53. ruruland

      Z: Your desire to recreate the 2007 Nuggets in 2013 New York would make more sense if the 2007 Nuggets were worth recreating at all.

      Iverson, Smith and Melo were quite good together. Team was 10th in defensive rating. If they had merely average role players around them, a couple guys who could shoot, that would have been a hell of a team.

      Add a Nene (who was injured in 2007-08) a real shooting guard, like the Nuggets did the next year, they’d have been in business.

      Billups wasn’t all that much different in terms of impact than Iverson that season.

    54. ruruland

      Z: Your desire to recreate the 2007 Nuggets in 2013 New York would make more sense if the 2007 Nuggets were worth recreating at all.

      Would never want to run a balanced offense around Nate Robinson.

      The Knicks have a lot going for them when healthy. Robinson gives them something they don’t have — a guard who can score 30 efficient points working primarily off the dribble.

      When he’s the 3rd or 4th guy a defense has to think about, that can be pretty huge deal in a playoff series.

      Robinson had a .600 TS, avg 18/4 through the Bulls first 8 playoff games.

      The Knicks didn’t have anyone on their playoff roster, not Shumpert, Smith or Felton, who had anything close to that kind of stretch.

      That’s potentially HUGE playoff support for Melo.

    55. Brian Cronin

      While it is true that Shump and Felton are never going to give you a performance like that, I don’t think it is unreasonable for JR to do it. He just hasn’t done it so far in the playoffs during most of his career. I don’t think there’s anything specific to his game to suggest that he couldn’t do it next year. He’s just had some really bad playoffs in a row (okay, some really bad playoffs in a row). He can still turn it around!

      But sure, if Nate wants to come to New York to get Jason Kidd’s minutes, then I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I just don’t see why Nate would choose to do that. As others have noted, there are other good teams that can offer him a larger role.

    56. yellowboy90

      I don’t see the problem adding nate if he wants to play for 3m. Besides 1 of Nate, Felton, and Smith has to have it going ona given night.

    57. Brian Cronin

      The problems with signing any free agent, though, is what type of situation it puts the Knicks in with Prigs and Cope. Luckily, both guys are restricted free agents. Unluckily, the Knicks can’t go much over the vet minimum to sign either one of them. So we have to hope that no other team thinks Prigs or Cope are worth the vet minimum.

    58. KnickfaninNJ

      Rutland,

      I’m curious what Copeland plans to work on over the summer, maybe you could ask him that.

    59. Frank

      ruruland: I’m interviewing Copeland either the 20th, 21st or 22nd of the month.

      Let me know if you guys have anything

      That’s awesome – thanks again Ruru. The Dean Oliver interview was really good. I don’t have any specific questions for Cope, but the main general question I have is about defensive awareness in general– essentially that he (and Amare/Melo) is generally a pretty good one-on-one defender, and he himself has said that he needs to work on defensive awareness (ie. to not get backdoored all the time, defensive positioning, help defense, etc.). In an offseason, how does one work on those things? Is it all film study? Do you need 6 or 10 guys on the court to work on those things? Just curious.

      Z: “Did you have posters of Lee Nailon in your room growing up?”

      That’s really selling Cope short. Yes they’re the same size. Yes, neither of them rebounds much. But Cope shot 42% on nearly 6 3 pointers/36 this year, whereas Nailon’s career 3 point percentage was 11%. Cope’s ability to play pick/pop as well as PNR, or even be the outlet corner 3 guy makes him so much more valuable on the offensive end. Nailon’s career TS was only 50.9, whereas Cope was at 58.3 despite a higher usage. Totally different players.

      In fact – if you look at B-R and input just these simple per-36 criteria – 18 points/36, USG >24, 3PA/36 >4, TS>58, this is what you get:

      http://bkref.com/tiny/0fFlV

      For those too lazy to click, the only guys on that list are: LBJ, Dirk, Pierce, Durant, Glen Rice, Danny Granger, Rashard Lewis, Copeland. In fact, I think Rashard Lewis (and to a lesser extent Glen Rice) is a pretty good comparison for Cope.

      http://bkref.com/tiny/bGHtK

      btw I love Nate and think he’d be great- but I don’t give up Cope to sign him…

    60. Frank

      I know I go on and on about Copeland here, but I really think this board is greatly underestimating how good an offensive player he is. He averaged 1.04 PPP (per Synergy) on high usage, and considering that usage, that is fantastic. Other high-usage guys he was more efficient than:

      Paul Pierce (0.93)
      Dirk Nowitzki (1.03)
      James Harden (1.01)
      Dwyane Wade (0.96)
      Stephen Curry (1.01)
      David Lee (0.96)

      Now of course most of these guys handle the ball a lot more than Cope, so their PPP is affected by turnovers more than Cope. But still — when you make 42% of six 3PA/36 and are the #10 PNR player in the league, you’re going to be very efficient.

      And for all the hemming and hawing about his rebounding – our team TRB% was 49.2 without him on the floor, and 49.1 with him on the floor per NBAwowy. Pretty sure that’s not going to be a statistically significant difference. And when he was on the floor with Tyson, we were actually a very good rebounding team with an ORB% of 30.9 and TRB of 52. Surprisingly, with Tyson on court and Cope OFF court, our ORB% was only 27 — so possibly Cope stretching the floor and pulling 1 big out of the basket area led to more offensive rebounds. Or Cope shooting and even missing 3′s led to more offensive rebounds, since we know that 3′s lead to more O-Rebs than any shots other than shots right at the basket.

      There’s no way we can let Cope walk this offseason even if we have to blow our whole mini-MLE on him. He’s mana from heaven just like Jeremy Lin, but is probably a better player, and certainly a better fit for this team.

    61. Nick C.

      I like Cope. I blathered about him needing PT in the Indy series. But I also liked Extra-E. Where does he fit in on the three point shooter F continuum? I’m thinking guys like Novak, Battier, Miller, Korver, Kwahi Leonard (?), Lewis, Ryan Anderson, Martell Webster. Travis Outlaw and presumably more.

    62. Zanzibar

      flossy:
      I have a sinking feeling that by November we’ll have added Chris Smith, Nate Robinson and Tony Mitchell to this crew of nobel laureates….

      I have a sinking feeling at the start of the 2015-16 season 60% of our available cap might be consumed by JR, Nate, Novak, Felton and Carmelo Harrington.

    63. Zanzibar

      yellowboy90:
      I wonder how much time JR actually works to improve his game during the summer. His shot has just been off since he came to Ny

      4 of the last 4 seasons JR has been below the league average FG%
      3 of the last 4 seasons JR has been below the league average 3FG%
      3 of the last 4 seasons JR has been below the league average FT%

      And..uh..shooting is his forte? The reason why we need him? And those numbers were for the regular season – his playoff stats make his regular season performance look like that of Kevin Durant. JR might fit on a team that plays the transition game. That’s not us. This off-season will be defined more by who we don’t sign than who we sign. No to JR, no to Nate, no to KMart. Let me summarize: NO, NO, NO. Keep those serpents out of the locker room.

    64. KnickfaninNJ

      Zanzibar: I have a sinking feeling at the start of the 2015-16 season 60% of our available cap might be consumed by JR, Nate, Novak, Felton and Carmelo Harrington.

      I am hoping that these sinking feelings on your part and flossy’s are based on Knicks history from before Grunwald. Grunwald has been great at finding reasonable players on the cheap, and he also seems to want a coherent team with players for all the needed roles. My major worry is that he has been so good at that that other teams are going to offer our own free agents too much for us to match. Prigioni and Copeland are bigger worries than Smith, because the Knicks can probably actually pay Smith enough to actually keep him if they want.

    65. ruruland

      Zanzibar: I have a sinking feeling at the start of the 2015-16 season 60% of our available cap might be consumed by JR, Nate, Novak, Felton and Carmelo Harrington.

      You really think Carmelo is an Al Harrington clone?

    66. ruruland

      Zanzibar: 4 of the last 4 seasons JR has been below the league average FG%
      3 of the last 4 seasons JR has been below the league average 3FG%
      3 of the last 4 seasons JR has been below the league average FT%

      And..uh..shooting is his forte? The reason why we need him? And those numbers were for the regular season – his playoff stats make his regular season performance look like that of Kevin Durant. JR might fit on a team that plays the transition game. That’s not us. This off-season will be defined more by who we don’t sign than who we sign. No to JR, no to Nate, no to KMart. Let me summarize: NO, NO, NO. Keep those serpents out of the locker room.

      JR has shot poorly the last few years, he’s played way too much on the ball. His spot up numbers are still good.

      Knicks went 8-0 with Kenyon at center, and I think one can make the case that he saved the Knicks season.

      So, you’ve got the serpents, an Al Harrington clone, a guy making max money not playing, and the Knicks won 54 games last year?

      Let me guess, all Chandler and Jason Kidd?

    67. johnno

      jon abbey: and Brewer, never forget Brewer

      Could you imagine how good they would have been if they kept Ronnie AND Corey and Landry Fields? Wow…

    68. Juany8

      johnno: Could you imagine how good they would have been if they kept Ronnie AND Corey and Landry Fields?Wow…

      And they probably could have drafted Faried if they tried! We could have a team of 5 players with no prayer of ever making a shot beyond the paint, but at least WP will say we’re set for 65 wins.

    69. Zanzibar

      ruruland: You really think Carmelo is an Al Harrington clone? Let me guess, all Chandler and Jason Kidd?

      Whoa don’t lump me in with the WP48 crowd! I believe I have established my bona fides on this board in that regard. Did I not a year ago post that Tyson was overrated and a #10 center while all of you were fawning over the guy? And so I’m not surprised our fashion maven is playing now more like Tyson Beckford than Tyson Chandler. Regarding Melo, the operative phrasing was “2015-16″ season. Once he loses a step and energy to bang in the block, yes he’ll be Harrington. I was all for the Melo trade and still believe it was a good trade. At the time, I had hoped we could have paired him with Paul, Dwill, or Howard. I’d feel sorry for Melo wasting his prime years without another top player but he could have mitigated that issue in part by joining the Knicks as a free agent. As it is, I’m not unhappy with the way Melo has played since joining the Knicks.

      As for JR, Nate, KMart – these are the type of players you rent for a 1/2 season or a season but no more. They’re like an hourly rate motel room or the person you meet there. No long-term commitment no matter how enjoyable the brief encounter. KMart was as popular as poison ivy with GMs before we signed him; he knew he had to change his ways to stay in the league. But the dye on the leopard’s spots eventually wears off. JR’s got some kind of mental problem which will prevent him from taking the next step. And I kept hearing that JR’s shot creator and that’s why we need him on the team. Now you’re saying no, let’s play him off the ball. We can find better defender/shooters to do that (Raja Bell, Delfino) for the vet’s min who don’t arrive with a carousel full of baggage and require a 4-year commitment. Discussed JR earlier thread so won’t elaborate but I leave you with this: DPOY:Chandler…

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