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Friday, November 28, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Aug 08 2012)

  • [New York Times] Blazers Name Stotts as New Head Coach (Wed, 08 Aug 2012 05:20:24 GMT)
    The Portland Trail Blazers named Terry Stotts as their new head coach Tuesday, injecting fresh blood to revive their stagnant franchise.

  • [New York Times] Basketball: French Women Reach Semis Over Czechs (Wed, 08 Aug 2012 00:53:24 GMT)
    The French women’s basketball team roared back from an 11-point deficit in the fourth quarter to overtake the Czech Republic 71-68 on Tuesday, advancing to the semi-finals of the Olympic tournament.

  • 92 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Aug 08 2012)

    1. New Guy

      ephus: I agree that it is not so simple, but the idea is to allow Felton/Kidd/Prigioni attack the defense so that ‘Melo can catch the ball in a position to score, instead of iso-Melo where he is trying to create his own shot.

      I don’t think that’s Woodson’s idea, if that’s what you’re implying. And I certainly don’t think it’s an idea Carmelo has demonstrated he is amenable to while a Knick. It’s definitely not the idea that led to his offensive outburst in April. And it surely doesn’t seem to be an idea that drove our personnel decision making this summer.

      What makes you think that’s an idea Carmelo and the Knicks want to implement? Frankly, it sounds precisely like the idea that was at the root of the Melo/MDA disagreement!

    2. Gideon Zaga

      I think the Idea as you put it should be to run the offense through Melo. That’s why even me has come to a conclusion that the Melo Amare synergy will never happen so frequently although I did see flashes last year with Melo to Anare passes and vice versa. Now think about this scheme: Felton brings the ball up, the floor is spaced with Melo in the corner, Tyson provably on the bench, and Brewer and JR/Novak also the perimeter. Felton runs pnr with Amare, now two things happen here. Felton either draws his defender and open lane for Amare or Felton gets a lane to the hoop. The only way Melo gets involved in this is if Melo’s defender helps off on Amare in the lane or Felton makes as early pass to Amare who then dumps it to a cutting Melo. Now if you read all this again you realize that in all scenarios Melo is the third option. The idea won’t work. Will he be enthused about being the third option, will his effort suffer? You have to understand egos have a lot to play in this game of basketball. On the contrary if they do this and they are winning I don’t think Melo will have a problem but if they lose you betterr believe iso Melo will clap his hands to hard in frustration everytime he doesn’t get the ball. The team is really fucked up. I actually believe Chauncey was the best person to handle this situation, he’s respected by both guys and knew how to run complex offense such as this and has the pedigree of Cp3 and a chip but hey we had a chance to get Tyson Chandler. Come on its Tyson Chandler.

    3. Z-man

      I’d rather watch Melo take 40 shots a game than watch opposing teams run a lay-up line on our D like they have for the last 10 years. Tyson Chandler was the f—ing DPOY, just set a record for shooting efficiency, and has a ring that he got playing with a very similarly-constructed team. That you would pine over the loss of the corpse of shoot-first PG Chauncey Billups is a joke. Has the pedigree of CP3?? You couldn’t name two more polar opposites as PGs than Billups and Paul.

    4. Gideon Zaga

      Say what you want about Chauncey but his intangibles trump those of Cp3 and almost all in the league. His shoot first skill was not his most valuable asset on this team, his leadership skill and ability to run the offense. Recognizing who was hot or who needed the ball at what part of the game was his biggest contribution. Plus he was the one guy who could keep Melo in line. I’m not mad or sad that we lost him cos we got Tyson but in the never ending story of Stat and Melo the best glue guy was clearly Billups.

    5. Gideon Zaga

      Plus look at what happened to the Clippers last year after they lost him, their team almost collapsed until he came back from rehab and was just sitting on the bench during games. I was in LA during this time so I heard Espn blab about it all the time. If not for him that team would have turned on Del Negro. Even before they lost him, when they lost Paul that team didn’t miss a beat. The guy is really good as Nash when it comes to having a coach on the floor.

    6. ephus

      During ‘Melo’s last half-season in Denver, Henry Abbott reported that George Karl was running lots of sets where ‘Melo was positioned in the corner as a catch-and-shoot option and was not happy about it. On the other hand, if ‘Melo plays off of the ball and gets screens and/or cuts towards the basket so that he can catch the ball in scoring position, he will be much more efficient. I would love to see ‘Melo getting at least some of his catches at the elbow after a 1/4 or 1/5 PnR or coming off of a pindown screen from Chandler. I think these sort of options could work and keep ‘Melo enthusiastic about the offense.

      The other play that I would like to see the Knicks attempt more often is the side PnR using ‘Melo/Stat.

    7. Z-man

      Oh, here we go with intangibles again. Why are we so sure that Kidd can’t keep Melo in line? He has no leadership skill and ability to run an offense? Or even Felton, who has never really played with a great team in the NBA but led this team to an NCAA championship by outplaying Deron Williams down the stretch? I would take a 38yo Kidd over a 38yo Billups every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

    8. Juany8

      Z-man:
      Oh, here we go with intangibles again. Why are we so sure that Kidd can’t keep Melo in line? He has no leadership skill and ability to run an offense? Or even Felton, who has never really played with a great team in the NBA but led this team to an NCAA championship by outplaying Deron Williams down the stretch?I would take a 38yo Kidd over a 38yo Billups every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

      Billups is fine offensively next to Melo, but he can’t really help Amar’e out much other than spacing the floor. Besides, Billups still thinks he’s mr. Big Shot and will just run up and jack 3’s at the beginning of possessions. Considering he’s a defensive liability at this point, I’m not sure he’s much better than Kidd for this team.

    9. Juany8

      ephus:
      During ‘Melo’s last half-season in Denver, Henry Abbott reported that George Karl was running lots of sets where ‘Melo was positioned in the corner as a catch-and-shoot option and was not happy about it.On the other hand, if ‘Melo plays off of the ball and gets screens and/or cuts towards the basket so that he can catch the ball in scoring position, he will be much more efficient.I would love to see ‘Melo getting at least some of his catches at the elbow after a 1/4 or 1/5 PnR or coming off of a pindown screen from Chandler.I think these sort of options could work and keep ‘Melo enthusiastic about the offense.

      The other play that I would like to see the Knicks attempt more often is the side PnR using ‘Melo/Stat.

      A Melo-Amar’e pick and roll never came about because of spacing issues. For long stretches of last year, Melo and Stoudemire were the best shooters on the floor (or at least the only guys defenses don’t want to leave open outside the paint). Since Amar’e also happens to be a poor interior passer, there was no way to get a shot at the rim with that play, teams just had to pack the defense and force Melo to take a jumper. When Amar’e was at the 5 though, the offense totally opened up and Melo and Amar’e had a lot of success playing off each other.

      Those 2 guys have never had a problem meshing, it’s Chandler and Amar’e that have the real synergistic problems. Neither is a good passer and Chandler can’t shoot at all, so the only way to involve both players is to make Stoudemire a weakside shooter (a stretch 4 basically) Unfortunately, while the offense is a little better with Stoudemire at center, the defense is worlds better when Chandler is there, and he is still useful offensively if you have good spacing.

    10. New Guy

      ephus:
      During ‘Melo’s last half-season in Denver, Henry Abbott reported that George Karl was running lots of sets where ‘Melo was positioned in the corner as a catch-and-shoot option and was not happy about it.On the other hand, if ‘Melo plays off of the ball and gets screens and/or cuts towards the basket so that he can catch the ball in scoring position, he will be much more efficient.I would love to see ‘Melo getting at least some of his catches at the elbow after a 1/4 or 1/5 PnR or coming off of a pindown screen from Chandler.I think these sort of options could work and keep ‘Melo enthusiastic about the offense.

      The other play that I would like to see the Knicks attempt more often is the side PnR using ‘Melo/Stat.

      I don’t think you’re wrong, in fact I agree with you. I’m just curious if you think it’s something Woodson is willing to implement, and why you think Melo would be “enthusiastic” about it.

    11. New Guy

      One of the more depressing moments of the Olympics, for me as a Knicks fan, was a play I saw in the last Argentina game. Melo and Kobe simultaneously set up on the same side of the post and called for the ball. Melo was in front so probably didn’t know Kobe was behind him. Kobe had deeper position and a size mismatch, so Williams waived off Melo to make an entry pass to Kobe. At this point he had some options to make himself a useful part of the play, but instead he shook his head in disbelief, donned his famous pouty face, and then slowly (and I mean SLOWLY) moped away from his position and walked to the opposite low blocks and didn’t even watch as Kobe did some stupid Kobe thing that he does. His head was turned away from the ball. And this was with Deron Williams and Kobe Bryant!

      The only type of offense I’ve seen him enthusiastic about as a Knick is the offense we ran last spring when Lin went down, and it’s not the one you’re describing. I love your idea, I just don’t think Melo shares the same vision, and it’s abundantly clear to everyone in the organization that if you’re not on board with what Carmelo Anthony wants, you’re not long for the Knicks.

      So I agree with Zaga. The idea (that our brass has in mind) is the 2001 Sixers.

    12. thenamestsam

      I think the biggest problem with using Melo off the ball a lot more is that it’s very hard for him to accept that when the team is struggling. When a team is winning (as with the Olympic team) it’s easy for guys to buy into their roles and accept fewer touches, fewer shots etc. But when a team struggles it’s much harder for guys with big egos (and a big ego is a prerequisite to become a star) to accept playing a smaller role. Especially if you’re in the situation Melo is in with the Knicks where every losing streak becomes a referendum on you personally.

      In my view that was a big part of the problem post-Linsanity this past year. The team was struggling through a very difficult part of the schedule and Melo was taking all the heat while simultaneously not seeing enough of the ball to really do something about it. Is it any wonder that he was getting frustrated?

      I’m sure they’ll try to use him off the ball a bit more this upcoming year, but when it comes down to it this is Melo’s team now 100%. He’s going to be blamed if they flop and he’s going to get the glory if they succeed. When the whole team is a referendum on your personal worth you’re going to want the ball.

    13. ephus

      I do not pretend to have access to Woodson’s thinking, so I do not hazzard a guess about what he will do this coming season. I think (admittedly based, in part, upon Ruru’s espoused understanding of what Camp ‘Melo wants for the coming season) that ‘Melo would like to get the easier scoring opportunities that would come from playing off of the ball, which would benefit ‘Melo in particular and the Knicks in general.

      In particular, I assume that Carmelo Anthony was as frustrated as anyone at Miami’s ability to deny him the ball at the elbow and in the post. OKC demonstrated that the pindown screen can be very effective in getting a scorer the ball at or near the elbow. I think ‘Melo would want the open looks that Durant had against San Antonio.

    14. Gideon Zaga

      +1

      New Guy:
      One of the more depressing moments of the Olympics, for me as a Knicks fan, was a play I saw in the last Argentina game.Melo and Kobe simultaneously set up on the same side of the post and called for the ball.Melo was in front so probably didn’t know Kobe was behind him.Kobe had deeper position and a size mismatch, so Williams waived off Melo to make an entry pass to Kobe.At this point he had some options to make himself a useful part of the play, but instead he shook his head in disbelief, donned his famous pouty face, and then slowly (and I mean SLOWLY) moped away from his position and walked to the opposite low blocks and didn’t even watch as Kobe did some stupid Kobe thing that he does.His head was turned away from the ball.And this was with Deron Williams and Kobe Bryant!

      The only type of offense I’ve seen him enthusiastic about as a Knick is the offense we ran last spring when Lin went down, and it’s not the one you’re describing.I love your idea, I just don’t think Melo shares the same vision, and it’s abundantly clear to everyone in the organization that if you’re not on board with what Carmelo Anthony wants, you’re not long for the Knicks.

      So I agree with Zaga.The idea (that our brass has in mind) is the 2001 Sixers.

    15. Gideon Zaga

      I actually agree with you on Kidd, Felton though is another issue. I seem as a guy with “I want to be the man” issues. Kidd though would be perfect in the Melo universe. Wish Amere was good passer out of the pnr all this would be solved.

      Z-man:
      Oh, here we go with intangibles again. Why are we so sure that Kidd can’t keep Melo in line? He has no leadership skill and ability to run an offense? Or even Felton, who has never really played with a great team in the NBA but led this team to an NCAA championship by outplaying Deron Williams down the stretch?I would take a 38yo Kidd over a 38yo Billups every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

    16. ephus

      Juany8: A Melo-Amar’e pick and roll never came about because of spacing issues. For long stretches of last year, Melo and Stoudemire were the best shooters on the floor (or at least the only guys defenses don’t want to leave open outside the paint).

      That should be less of a problem with this year’s roster. Kidd, Smith, Novak and even Kurt Thomas are all perimeter threats It might be tough to run the Melo/Stat PnR when they are on the floor with the starting lineup (Felton, Brewer and Chandler).

    17. er

      Man I hate watching euros play……flopping around like fish especially rudy fernadez…..I’d

    18. ruruland

      thenamestsam:

      he’s going to get the glory if they succeed.

      I guarantee you that won’t be the case as the Knicks win 53+ this season. yes, there will be some stories about how Melo is playing so well, but this board and the overall media narrative will be about how Melo’s teammates make Melo better and how they’ve picked him up.

    19. rkulish

      I think we should all remember the point guard hell that was last season. Sure, Linsanity was cool and all , but the Knicks started with Douglas, went to Shump, played Melo as like a point forward, had Lin, then had Baron/Bibby/Shump. There was no consistency in running the offense. No consistency to rotations and how/where guys would get the ball…with consistency these spacing, plays, etc. issues will work themselves out in some cases…

      If they stay healthy and have a steady point guard, things are going to be better. They will be able to figure out what works and what doesn’t. Felton will learn where Amar’e likes it best (sure did a damn good job of it in 10-11) and will be able to get Melo the ball where he can succeed. There is a lot of talent, experience and pedigree on this team. I am not saying they will win a championship but I fully expect them to be a top-4 team in the East that figures out a way to have its players in a position to succeed.

    20. ruruland

      New Guy:
      One of the more depressing moments of the Olympics, for me as a Knicks fan, was a play I saw in the last Argentina game.Melo and Kobe simultaneously set up on the same side of the post and called for the ball.Melo was in front so probably didn’t know Kobe was behind him.Kobe had deeper position and a size mismatch, so Williams waived off Melo to make an entry pass to Kobe.At this point he had some options to make himself a useful part of the play, but instead he shook his head in disbelief, donned his famous pouty face, and then slowly (and I mean SLOWLY) moped away from his position and walked to the opposite low blocks and didn’t even watch as Kobe did some stupid Kobe thing that he does.His head was turned away from the ball.And this was with Deron Williams and Kobe Bryant!

      The only type of offense I’ve seen him enthusiastic about as a Knick is the offense we ran last spring when Lin went down, and it’s not the one you’re describing.I love your idea, I just don’t think Melo shares the same vision, and it’s abundantly clear to everyone in the organization that if you’re not on board with what Carmelo Anthony wants, you’re not long for the Knicks.

      So I agree with Zaga.The idea (that our brass has in mind) is the 2001 Sixers.

      This is the kind of read that really makes me want to stop visiting message boards.

    21. JK47

      Amar’e shot .319 on jumpers last year. I’m firmly in the pessimist camp now, but there’s just no way his jump shot could be THAT stanky again. He shot .336 on shots from 3 to 9 feet. That’s just inexplicable.

      I mean, really, what the hell is up with that? That is just some putrid shooting. And it’s not like he gives you a whole lot apart from his offense. For all the obsessing about Melo around here, the other ill-advised max contract on this team played far worse.

    22. Unreason

      JK47:
      Amar’e shot .319 on jumpers last year.I’m firmly in the pessimist camp now, but there’s just no way his jump shot could be THAT stanky again.He shot .336 on shots from 3 to 9 feet.That’s just inexplicable.

      I mean, really, what the hell is up with that?That is just some putrid shooting.And it’s not like he gives you a whole lot apart from his offense.For all the obsessing about Melo around here, the other ill-advised max contract on this team played far worse.

      His shot was unbelievably bad, his handle was shaky at best, and his team D was miserable. Of those, I think his shot and handle have the best chance of improving by a fair amount this season. I’ve never seen a reason to doubt his effort, so, for me, there’s some reason to hope.

    23. ruruland

      New Guy,

      I dvr’d the game. Kobe gets the post-out and Melo clears out to the other block where he battles Scola for an offensive rebound attempt, exactly what he should have done.

      Furthermore, his face turns from the camera from the moment Kobe clears him out. There was no “shaking his head in disbelief” or even a chance to observe if he had a “pouty face”.

      You made up a little story and filled in all appropriate Melo caricature descriptions. Just disgusting.

      Melo has accepted the role as floor-spacing spot-up guy on Team USA since MDA came aboard, and he’s done quite well in it.

    24. ruruland

      New Guy: I don’t think you’re wrong, in fact I agree with you.I’m just curious if you think it’s something Woodson is willing to implement, and why you think Melo would be “enthusiastic” about it.

      Ignorance. Done trying to help people like you understand.

    25. New Guy

      Child I’ve been watching basketball since before you were born. I never needed your help understanding a fucking thing.

      The theme of the thread is about Melo supposedly wanting or being enthused about getting open looks. The ignorance is willfully dismissing his role in eliminating most of the people who were on this team whose careers (whether lengthy like MDA’s, or brief like Lin’s) indicate they were likely to assist in that goal.

    26. thenamestsam

      ruruland: I guarantee you that won’t be the case as the Knicks win 53+ this season. yes, there will be some stories about how Melo is playing so well, but this board and the overall media narrative will be about how Melo’s teammates make Melo better and how they’ve picked him up.

      I guess it depends how we define success and failure. If they win 53 games and get dumped in the 1st round I would put that in the failure column. If this team has an unqualified succesful season – say 58 wins and a trip to the ECF, I believe Melo will get his due. There are some in the media who are strongly anti-Melo but you could have said the same about Lebron until this past year. Then he wins and its glowing column after glowing column. If you’re the star and your team wins you will get accolades.

    27. JK47

      Even the most wildly optimistic posters here have no hope whatsoever that this team could actually compete for a title. The most optimistic hopes and dreams have this year’s team winning 53 games and making the ECF.

      Which is fine– I mean, 53 wins and the ECF would represent progress, after all. The problem is that the team has no viable means of improving after this season, and most of the key players on the team will soon be heading into serious decline phase. Does anybody think the 2013-2014 Knicks or 2014-2015 Knicks are going to be anything other than a declining team?

      There’s no future for this bunch. The future is now, and “now” isn’t all that exciting, to be completely honest. We can talk about Melo getting more assisted baskets and Stat’s jumper returning to form all we want, but it’s all pretty moot when you get down to it. The architects of this team have shot their wad, burned every asset they have and come up with a team that probably has about 50 wins and a second round playoff exit as its likely ceiling. Epic fail.

    28. ruruland

      New Guy:
      Child I’ve been watching basketball since before you were born.I never needed your help understanding a fucking thing.

      The theme of the thread is about Melo supposedly wanting or being enthused about getting open looks.The ignorance is willfully dismissing his role in eliminating most of the people who were on this team whose careers (whether lengthy like MDA’s, or brief like Lin’s) indicate they were likely to assist in that goal.

      I don’t know how many times this has to be explained, but I’m not going over it again.

      If you want to believe that Melo actively wanted Lin and MDA gone, or wanted them gone because he doesn’t want good looks, just as you imagined Melo petulantly throwing a fit during the Olympics, that’s your prerogative.

    29. ephus

      JK47: The architects of this team have shot their wad, burned every asset they have and come up with a team that probably has about 50 wins and a second round playoff exit as its likely ceiling. Epic fail.

      I see some opportunities for improvement going forward:

      1. CAA gets Chris Paul to NY. This would require a trade at the deadline, likely for Chandler/Shumpert/Felton (?). The odds are pretty low, because (a) CP3 has not made any noises about leaving LA, (b) the Hawks and Mavericks will have the ability to make a better offer and cap space in the next off-season, and (c) since Paul’s toast, Amar’e has lost much of his luster as a potential teammate.

      2. Shumpert becomes a star. When I look at Shump-Shump, I dream of a sane Spree. Shump clearly can be an elite defensive player, but I am probably kidding myself in thinking that he can be an elite slasher/scorer. If he develops, he could carry the Knicks to a higher level and/or be a great trading chip.

      3. Amar’e recovers to former glory. If Amar’e is an elite finisher again, he could become a tradable asset. At some point, his contract may be short enough and Amar’e healthy enough that it could be insured or teams would be willing to risk taking him without insurance.

      4. Knicks hit it big in 2013 Draft. Obviously, this is a complete wildcard, and the Knicks are likely to be picking in the high teens to mid-twenties. There are a lot more Balkmans than Rondos at this level.

      5. Chandler regains a semblance of an offensive game. If Chandler demanded as much defensive attention as even Mozgov, it would really help.

      6. James White is the next coming of John Starks. Now I am just dreaming.

    30. ruruland

      JK47:
      Even the most wildly optimistic posters here have no hope whatsoever that this team could actually compete for a title.The most optimistic hopes and dreams have this year’s team winning 53 games and making the ECF.

      Which is fine– I mean, 53 wins and the ECF would represent progress, after all.The problem is that the team has no viable means of improving after this season, and most of the key players on the team will soon be heading into serious decline phase.Does anybody think the 2013-2014 Knicks or 2014-2015 Knicks are going to be anything other than a declining team?

      There’s no future for this bunch.The future is now, and “now” isn’t all that exciting, to be completely honest.We can talk about Melo getting more assisted baskets and Stat’s jumper returning to form all we want, but it’s all pretty moot when you get down to it.The architects of this team have shot their wad, burned every asset they have and come up with a team that probably has about 50 wins and a second round playoff exit as its likely ceiling.Epic fail.

      Nah. They should win more than 53 games. And if you get to the ECF, you have a chance.

      They aren’t building a team that will be favored to win a title, but with Miami and OKC that’s an extremely unlikely scenario in the first place.

      Everyone agrees with you about Lin. I just think most folks are done talking about it.

    31. thenamestsam

      ruruland:
      New Guy,

      I dvr’d the game. Kobe gets the post-out and Melo clears out to the other block where he battles Scola for an offensive rebound attempt, exactly what he should have done.

      Furthermore, his face turns from the camera from the moment Kobe clears him out. There was no “shaking his head in disbelief” or even a chance to observe if he had a “pouty face”.

      You made up a little story and filled in all appropriate Melo caricaturedescriptions. Just disgusting.

      Melo has accepted the role as floor-spacing spot-up guy on Team USA since MDA came aboard, and he’s done quite well in it.

      Do you have the game time for this play? I’d like to take a look for myself.

    32. JK47

      @30

      Did I mention or even allude to Jeremy Lin? No, I did not. I’m sorry I don’t share your wild-eyed optimism, but I’m as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.

      @29
      Those are all incredibly far-fetched scenarios. Scenario #1 does not even improve the team much, because the Knicks would probably be a pretty goddamn awful defensive team if you remove their two best defenders.

    33. ephus

      We will see in the first half of the season whether Ronnie Brewer can be provide the sort of wing defense that Shumpert did in the second half of last season. If he can, then the Knicks defense (with Paul and without Chandler) would rely upon the ability of the Knicks to play straight assignments when Amar’e was on the floor.

      As I wrote in my post, I do not think that any of my scenarios are particularly likely, but there is at least a ray of hope in each of them. And hope is a good thing!

    34. New Guy

      ruruland: I don’t know how many times this has to be explained, but I’m not going over it again.

      If you want to believe that Melo actively wanted Lin and MDA gone, or wanted them gone because he doesn’t want good looks, just as you imagined Melo petulantly throwing a fit during the Olympics, that’s your prerogative.

      Thanks for your permission. Don’t need it, though.

      And I did not say he threw a fit, enough with your petulant straw man arguments.

      IMO, he was visibly displeased, and his effort after being denied the ball was noticeably lackluster. I’ve seen turtles get to the low block in less time than it took him.

      FYI, no one here needs to have anything explained to them, especially not from someone who makes correlation equals causation arguments and gets a synergy subscription and comes back saying “it confirmed everything I previously thought was true”.

      We have differing views of the god you worship. Accept that you won’t convert us all.

    35. thenamestsam

      ruruland: 3:52 third quarter.

      Thanks. I remembered the play, I just couldn’t remember when in the game it was. For anyone who wants to see it, it’s online if you have the right cable providers. It’s around the 1:14:45 mark of this video:

      http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/basketball/mens-group-a-argentina-vs-united-states.html.

      It’s not HD by any means, but I have to say that not surprisingly it seems like you’re both seeing what you want to see to some extent. Melo does seem to shake his head and he doesn’t exactly sprint over to the other side of the court, but he isn’t really facing away from the play, he turns his head several times as he’s clearing out to the other side. I also don’t see how you could determine that he’s making a pouty face. I certainly couldn’t see that, and determining that he’s moping seems like mostly your own bias. I will admit that he doesn’t really hustle back once Kobe turns it over either.

      My conclusion: He definitely seems somewhat frustrated by the play and to call the whole thing made up seems incorrect to me. On the other hand it’s the kind of momentary thing that happens all the time in any sport. A teammate gets in your way, you get momentarily frustrated at them, shake your head, and then you get back in the game. To me Melo’s willingness to take a back-seat on this team and to play exactly the role required of him has been very impressive and a five second sequence where he’s a less than perfect teammate hardly seems like a big deal in contrast.

    36. New Guy

      thenamestsam: To me Melo’s willingness to take a back-seat on this team and to play exactly the role required of him has been very impressive and a five second sequence where he’s a less than perfect teammate hardly seems like a big deal in contrast.

      I agree, it just struck me because we’re talking about a zebra changing his stripes for a brief period. That was admittedly just one glimpse, but those were his old stripes. (I’m going by your description now. You’re right, Sam, my biases led to an exaggerated memory two days later.)

      It’s like a Sopranos character being different for two episodes, but then he does one thing that reminds you of who he is and you know the change was temporary and insincere and one episode later he’s the same guy you remember.

    37. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      New Guy: It’s like a Sopranos character being different for two episodes, but then he does one thing that reminds you of who he is and you know the change was temporary and insincere and one episode later he’s the same guy you remember.

      Great reference.

    38. ephus

      Based on my review of the play, I think New Guy is wrong to call ‘Melo another Christopher Moltisanti. Here is the context:

      On the prior play, ‘Melo grabbed the defensive rebound, gave the ball to Williams and established deep low post position with Kobe on the wing. Kobe cleared to the top of the key, but Kobe’s man scraped back down and stole the ball from ‘Melo when he went into his move. Carmelo clearly thought he was fouled, and was staring at the ref as he retreated.

      USA stole the ball in transition and ‘Melo got a pass on the wing at the three point line. He absolutely wanted to go back into the post. After two backdown dribbles, he passed out to Williams and tried to reset deeper. But, in the meantime, Kobe had come across the lane and set even deeper post position, so Williams waived ‘Melo out. ‘Melo slowly crossed the lane, but I do not think anyone could see his face clearly, let alone conclude he had made a “pouty face.” When Kobe got stripped on his move (meaning USA got stripped on two straight post-ups without a foul call), Melo was slow getting back on defense.

      I understand how New Guy could conclude that ‘Melo was not giving full effort, but I do not think the evidence is there that he was frustrated with his teammates. It is at least as plausible that he was frustrated with refs for failing to call a foul on either of the prior two plays. As a Knick, Melo has frequently become distracted by “bad” calls and failed to hustle back on defense. This is a bad habit, but I consider it a lesser sin than pouting because he did not get the offense he wanted.

      Even if ‘Melo was frustrated at Kobe rather than the refs, since part of his desire for the ball in the post was to get revenge for his failure on the prior post-up, I can understand why he would be upset that Kobe cut across the lane to take away his post-up opportunity.

      So, I concur with thenamestsam @36.

    39. Juany8

      It’s incredible that Melo is actually playing well and doing everything you’d want from him, yet people go out of their way to point out one (questionable) bad moment he had. Lebron basically shit on Chalmers on the court during the playoffs, nobody really cared since they won the freaking championship. Melo possibly makes a pouty during one play and that’s proof that he’s going to continue with his bad habits? Why are people so desperate to see Melo fail, he’s basically putting up the numbers Bernard King put up with the Knicks, it’s not Melo’s fault he’s not Lebron or Kevin Durant

    40. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Can we just all agree that it doesn’t matter how good he is in the Olympics since he’ll never win an NBA championship?

    41. ephus

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Can we just all agree that it doesn’t matter how good he is in the Olympics since he’ll never win an NBA championship?

      Juwan Howard says never is a really long time.

      Even if you do not think ‘Melo will win with this version of the Knicks, he is virtually certain to have years left after the conclusion of his current contract.

    42. knicknyk

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Can we just all agree that it doesn’t matter how good he is in the Olympics since he’ll never win an NBA championship?

      I wouldn’t say never, although it does seem unlikely that the team as it is right now can win it all. I think we will maximize our potential in the regular season finishing with a high seeding. In the playoffs I envision Woodson being out coached by Spoelstra or Rivers and our team being unable to score.

    43. knicknyk

      Juany8:
      It’s incredible that Melo is actually playing well and doing everything you’d want from him, yet people go out of their way to point out one (questionable) bad moment he had. Lebron basically shit on Chalmers on the court during the playoffs, nobody really cared since they won the freaking championship. Melo possibly makes a pouty during one play and that’s proof that he’s going to continue with his bad habits? Why are people so desperate to see Melo fail, he’s basically putting up the numbers Bernard King put up with the Knicks, it’s not Melo’s fault he’s not Lebron or Kevin Durant

      I don’t think anyone is desperate to see him fail. At least that wasn’t the vibe that I was getting from the discussion.

    44. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ephus: Juwan Howard says never is a really long time.

      Even if you do not think ‘Melo will win with this version of the Knicks, he is virtually certain to have years left after the conclusion of his current contract.

      Juwan Howard’s contribution to that championship was making sure Norris Cole had a fresh diaper for every long plane ride. What I mean is that he will never play significant minutes on a championship team, mostly because as long as he keeps his usage high, he’ll command a salary that will inhibit his team from signing more valuable players to help out. You know — like Jeremy Lin.

    45. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Juwan Howard’s contribution to that championship was making sure Norris Cole had a fresh diaper for every long plane ride. What I mean is that he will never play significant minutes on a championship team, mostly because as long as he keeps his usage high, he’ll command a salary that will inhibit his team from signing more valuable players to help out. You know — like Jeremy Lin.

      Kobe Bryant and Chris Bosh say hi. Melo never winning a championship has as much to do with the super teams in OKC and Miami than anything his skills can accomplish. He’s not as good as Lebron or Durant, but he doesn’t have teammates as good as Wade/Bosh or Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka. Maybe if Amar’e went back to his Suns efficiency while actually caring about defense, and if Chandler developed a jumper, and if Lin stayed on the team and lived up to his potential… Oh well, there’s a solid chance this team makes the ECF, then who knows? Maybe Lebron falls down the stairs on the way to the stadium or something. It happened with Rose this year…

    46. New Guy

      Juany8:
      It’s incredible that Melo is actually playing well and doing everything you’d want from him, yet people go out of their way to point out one (questionable) bad moment he had. Lebron basically shit on Chalmers on the court during the playoffs, nobody really cared since they won the freaking championship. Melo possibly makes a pouty during one play and that’s proof that he’s going to continue with his bad habits? Why are people so desperate to see Melo fail, he’s basically putting up the numbers Bernard King put up with the Knicks, it’s not Melo’s fault he’s not Lebron or Kevin Durant

      1. I don’t want him to fail, I just expect him to.

      2. Yes, I think he is a diva and he acts out on the court. And because no one in the organization has the power to do anything about it (Thanks, Dolan) we’re going to see a lot of pandering to what he wants to keep him happy rather than what’s best for the team. If this current power structure had been in place last summer, I fully believe we would have drafted Josh Selby instead of Iman Shumpert.

      3. I know you only said numbers, but this guy is no Bernard King.

    47. knicknyk

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Juwan Howard’s contribution to that championship was making sure Norris Cole had a fresh diaper for every long plane ride. What I mean is that he will never play significant minutes on a championship team, mostly because as long as he keeps his usage high, he’ll command a salary that will inhibit his team from signing more valuable players to help out. You know — like Jeremy Lin.

      I think it is unfair to blame not matching Lin on Melo’s salary. After all we could have matched and it wouldn’t have affected our ability to make more moves, all it caused was increased luxury tax. Not matching Lin was all on knicks management failing to handle his free agency properly. I was talking to someone and they brought up the Sasha Pavlovic incident with Cleveland, there are some parallels that is for sure.

    48. New Guy

      ephus:
      I understand how New Guy could conclude that ‘Melo was not giving full effort, but I do not think the evidence is there that he was frustrated with his teammates.It is at least as plausible that he was frustrated with refs for failing to call a foul on either of the prior two plays.As a Knick, Melo has frequently become distracted by “bad” calls and failed to hustle back on defense.This is a bad habit, but I consider it a lesser sin than pouting because he did not get the offense he wanted.

      </bloc

      This is a fair point. It's a shame he historically has let multiple perceived injustices affect his effort to the point that when two of them happen on the same play we might incorrectly guess what he's acting out over.

    49. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: Kobe Bryant and Chris Bosh say hi. Melo never winning a championship has as much to do with the super teams in OKC and Miami than anything his skills can accomplish. He’s not as good as Lebron or Durant, but he doesn’t have teammates as good as Wade/Bosh or Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka. Maybe if Amar’e went back to his Suns efficiency while actually caring about defense, and if Chandler developed a jumper, and if Lin stayed on the team and lived up to his potential… Oh well, there’s a solid chance this team makes the ECF, then who knows? Maybe Lebron falls down the stairs on the way to the stadium or something. It happened with Rose this year…

      Ah yeah. Chandler not having a jumper really put a dent on his impact in the 2011 Playoffs.

      What I really want is for the best rebounder on the team to be taking 12 foot shots. Sounds like a great strategy.

    50. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      New Guy: 1. I don’t want him to fail, I just expect him to.

      2. Yes, I think he is a diva and he acts out on the court.And because no one in the organization has the power to do anything about it (Thanks, Dolan) we’re going to see a lot of pandering to what he wants to keep him happy rather than what’s best for the team.If this current power structure had been in place last summer, I fully believe we would have drafted Josh Selby instead of Iman Shumpert.

      3. I know you only said numbers, but this guy is no Bernard King.

      BUT JOSH SELBY COULD BE A SUPERSTAR!!!!!!!!!!!

    51. ephus

      If Chandler does not improve his offense at all, he is still a major plus. But if he had a 12 foot jumper and/or one post move, he would be able to pick up more clean up points and keep his defender honest. Near the end of the season, he picked up a lot of offensive fouls because everyone knew that Chandler had to take the ball all the way to the rim. Earlier in his career, he had a mid-range shot.

      TC has already said that he is looking to improve his offense during this off-season by working on precisely these issues.

    52. JK47

      Look at all the teams in history who have won an NBA title, then tell me which of those teams had a Carmelo Anthony-caliber player as their star.

      The answer will be something like “none.”

    53. thenamestsam

      Everytime you discuss Carmelo Anthony in any context on this site it ends in a discussion of whether he’s good enough to lead an NBA championship team. Can’t there be one Melo discussion that doesn’t turn into a referendum on his overall worthiness as a basketball player?

    54. ephus

      JK47: Look at all the teams in history who have won an NBA title, then tell me which of those teams had a Carmelo Anthony-caliber player as their star.The answer will be something like “none.”

      At a minimum, 1975 Golden State Warriors (Rick Barry), 1978 Washington Bullets (Elvin Hayes), 1979 Seatle Sonics (Dennis Johnson or Gus Williams) and 2004 Detroit Pistons (Rasheed Wallace).

    55. Jafa

      thenamestsam:
      Everytime you discuss Carmelo Anthony in any context on this site it ends in a discussion of whether he’s good enough to lead an NBA championship team. Can’t there be one Melo discussion that doesn’t turn into a referendum on his overall worthiness as a basketball player?

      Maybe the reason it all comes back to his ability to lead a team to an NBA championship is because he now plays for a franchise that has not won an NBA championship in 40 years!

      If Shumpert was our best player, we would be endlessly analyzing whether or not he could lead us to a championship.

    56. JK47

      @55

      Three of those four teams were pre-modern era, so if you have to go back that far to find examples I think it proves my point rather than yours.

      That leaves one team in the modern era, the 2004 Pistons, who had as their star player not Rasheed Wallace but Chauncey Billups, who had a .198 WS/48 that year, almost 40 points higher than Melo’s career high. Billups played at this level for around 6 seasons:

      WS/48
      2003 .204
      2004 .198
      2005 .202
      2006 .254
      2007 .216
      2008 .257

      Think Melo is ever gonna go on a run like that? I don’t. Chauncey >>>>>> Melo.

    57. thenamestsam

      Jafa: Maybe the reason it all comes back to his ability to lead a team to an NBA championship is because he now plays for a franchise that has not won an NBA championship in 40 years!

      If Shumpert was our best player, we would be endlessly analyzing whether or not he could lead us to a championship.

      I’m not denying its importance or interest as a topic. It just seems to me like it should also be possible to have a discussion about him without it being about that topic. But as soon as you say his name the discussion inevitably becomes about that.

    58. max fisher-cohen

      Detroit is the only modern example of guys who were viewed as second tier stars or role players and still put together a championship run. Dallas is close as well. I think the Knicks’ ceiling is to be a Detroit/Dallas level team. Both those teams had a number of very lucky events that led them to a championship, which is why they are once a decade type occurrences. So if we say there’s a ten percent chance the Knicks play at Dallas/Detroit level, and there’s a 10% chance that a team at that level steals a championship, you get a 1 in 100 chance next year the Knicks win a title. To me, that’s a fair appraisal of their chances, and it’s not a terrible place to be given

      When you look at how, due to age, their window gets significantly smaller each year after next though, and how they’ve given up almost all youth and picks (thus making the impending rebuild process all the more painful), it seems like a bad gamble. If OKC and Miami are going to be unstoppable the next couple years, why not be more patient and save assets whose values can grow, and then in 2014, when Wade is a scrub due to injuries and Harden or Ibaka have moved to another team, aim to peak?

    59. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ephus:
      If Chandler does not improve his offense at all, he is still a major plus.But if he had a 12 foot jumper and/or one post move, he would be able to pick up more clean up points and keep his defender honest. Near the end of the season, he picked up a lot of offensive fouls because everyone knew that Chandler had to take the ball all the way to the rim.Earlier in his career, he had a mid-range shot.

      TC has already said that he is looking to improve his offense during this off-season by working on precisely these issues.

      While I don’t disagree that a player having more efficient moves is a bad thing, you act like he’s offensive challenged. This is a guy who set an ALL-TIME RECORD for TS% last season!

      It did not matter at ALL that he was offensively limited because no one could stop him. Maybe he picked up some needless offensive fouls, but when you have a player who can be that dominant with a 5-foot range, you don’t tell him to change. You let him do the things that he does exceptionally well, and you ride him to the playoffs.

      Chandler is not in any way the problem with this team, and asking him to play farther from the rim is only going to make it harder for him to do the things that he’s amazing at: rebounding and putting back missed shots. Why would you want him to have fewer opportunities to do something that few players can prevent him from doing?

    60. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      JK47:
      @55

      Three of those four teams were pre-modern era, so if you have to go back that far to find examples I think it proves my point rather than yours.

      That leaves one team in the modern era, the 2004 Pistons, who had as their star player not Rasheed Wallace but Chauncey Billups, who had a .198 WS/48 that year, almost 40 points higher than Melo’s career high.Billups played at this level for around 6 seasons:

      WS/48
      2003 .204
      2004 .198
      2005 .202
      2006 .254
      2007 .216
      2008 .257

      Think Melo is ever gonna go on a run like that?I don’t.Chauncey >>>>>> Melo.

      I still think Wallace was more important than Billups, but the Pistons were less a case of “no star players” than a case of “no easily-identifiable star players.” Billups and Wallace were superstars without flash, but it doesn’t make them any less great than they actually were.

    61. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: While I don’t disagree that a player having more efficient moves is a bad thing, you act like he’s offensive challenged. This is a guy who set an ALL-TIME RECORD for TS% last season!

      It did not matter at ALL that he was offensively limited because no one could stop him. Maybe he picked up some needless offensive fouls, but when you have a player who can be that dominant with a 5-foot range, you don’t tell him to change. You let him do the things that he does exceptionally well, and you ride him to the playoffs.

      Chandler is not in any way the problem with this team, and asking him to play farther from the rim is only going to make it harder for him to do the things that he’s amazing at: rebounding and putting back missed shots. Why would you want him to have fewer opportunities to do something that few players can prevent him from doing?

      You’re a fucking moron.

    62. er

      dirk nowitski

      JK47:
      Look at all the teams in history who have won an NBA title, then tell me which of those teams had a Carmelo Anthony-caliber player as their star.

      The answer will be something like “none.”

    63. er

      watching the olympics also reaffirms that kd is not that good on d….even though the pundits are pushing that he is

    64. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ruruland: You’re a fucking moron.

      l o l

      Are you going to tell me that Chandler needs an amazing shooter like Carmelo to be good at offensive rebounding and put-back dunks? Or that he “clogs the paint?”

    65. thenamestsam

      New Guy:
      So much for Kobe getting his role reduced now.

      Haha, he’s going bananas. Those last two 3s were two of the most absurd shots I’ve ever seen anyone put up, and he actually made one of them. As long as he keeps playing in his role a hot Kobe will be huge. If he thinks it means he should have the ball more it could hurt them.

    66. er

      lol you cant just accept that the guy is really good at bball

      New Guy:
      Melo w a vicious two handed dunk, too.He is officially Bizarro Anthony this tournament.

    67. ephus

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: l o l

      Are you going to tell me that Chandler needs an amazing shooter like Carmelo to be good at offensive rebounding and put-back dunks? Or that he “clogs the paint?”

      No, I am saying that Chandler already spends most of the possession outside of the lane, and he would be more valuable if he was a threat in that position. If he could make the same sort of jumpers that Faried does, he would score more, increase the team’s scoring efficiency, and open up the rim for others because his defender would have to play him honestly.

    68. JK47

      er:
      dirk nowitski

      Hold on a second. Are you telling me that Dirk Nowitzki and Carmelo Anthony are anything resembling equals as basketball players? Because if you are I now know that I can go ahead and ignore anything you ever say again.

    69. ruruland

      JK47: Hold on a second. Are you telling me that Dirk Nowitzki and Carmelo Anthony are anything resembling equals as basketball players? Because if you are I now know that I can go ahead and ignore anything you ever say again.

      *Uses uncontextualized WS/48 as argument for every response on topic*

      yes, Dirk’s prime is clearly better than Melo’s so far, but Melo’s has only just begun. Let’s see what his advanced numbers say after the season.

    70. ruruland

      New Guy:
      Melo w a vicious two handed dunk, too.He is officially Bizarro Anthony this tournament.

      melo was top 5 in dunks in 2005 and 2006, and that went away when his game became predominately isos in congested paint.

      But his baseline drive, power dunk is actually vintage Melo. The weight loss (no carb diet change) should allow him to finish those plays like he used to just a few years ago.

      This was just as his game was really emerging. You’ll notice the lack of tilt you see today on many of his wing touches:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El2pD8aucnw

      And as I’ve always said, the weight issue is absolutely a valid one for the ubiquitious Melo critics.

    71. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ruruland: *Uses uncontextualized WS/48 as argument for every response on topic*

      yes, Dirk’s prime is clearly better than Melo’s so far, but Melo’s has only just begun. Let’s see what his advanced numbers say after the season.

      But Dirk’s been better than Carmelo since he was 22. Carmelo isn’t even close. He’s a high efficiency high volume shooter. Ten-consecutive-year All-NBA player who actually deserves it. Carmelo will have to become LeBron James to come close to Dirk’s sustained greatness.

    72. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: l o l

      Are you going to tell me that Chandler needs an amazing shooter like Carmelo to be good at offensive rebounding and put-back dunks? Or that he “clogs the paint?”

      Tyson Chandler shot distribution and percentages as well as TS%
      http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Tyson%20Chandler

      McGee
      http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=JaVale McGee

      Gortat
      http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Marcin Gortat

      Ibaka
      http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Serge Ibaka

      Koufus
      http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kosta Koufos

      Amare
      http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Amare Stoudemire

      Gibson
      http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Taj Gibson

      Bogut

      http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Andrew Bogut

      There are surely more centers and pf who finish in the 65-70% range at the rim.

      If any them decided to cut out all other aspects of their offensive games, and take all 5 of their 6 field goal attempts PER GAME (30 mpg) at the rim, many of them would have efficiency close to Chandler.

      Now, if you took away all of those self-created shots at the basket, their at-basket efficiency could get close to Chandler.

      Now, that’s not to say that Chandler isn’t a very good screen and roll player and finisher — he clearly is — but many NBA big men are going to get 4-6 basket attempts that they will finish at a similar rate.

      But their overall efficiency is dragged down by the other, often quality shots they take in the 3-9 foot area — those that Chandler dare not try.

      IF a player were to not play defense and instead stand on offense wand wait for the ball to come to him, taking however many cherry-picked layups on offense per game, would he be a DOMINANT offensive players????

      I think we can reasonably extend THCJ absurd argument to its hypothetical end.

    73. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: But Dirk’s been better than Carmelo since he was 22. Carmelo isn’t even close. He’s a high efficiency high volume shooter. Ten-consecutive-year All-NBA player who actually deserves it. Carmelo will have to become LeBron James to come close to Dirk’s sustained greatness.

      Dirk is a lower volume shooter than Melo. He shot distribution is also different. But it’s absolutely true that in Dirk’s prime he was a more efficient mid-range offensive player and just a better shooter in all areas.

      I think it’s quite unlikely Melo tops out at a .612 TS like Dirk did, primarily because Melo isn’t going to shoot 92% from the line, but with a change in shot distribtuion like I’ve talked about, Melo will be able to fall in the .570-580 efficiency range on higher volume than Dirk, more assists than Dirk, and a superior rebound rate at his position.

      Their ability to create defensive titls is very similar, however.

    74. d-mar

      I’m really sorry to change the subject from the never ending referendum on Melo, but watching the game today it is so evident that LeBron plays on an entirely different level than not just the opposition but his teammates as well, and these are some of the best players in the NBA. His game has evolved where he is now more Magic than Jordan, but a better rebounder and finisher. And his confidence is at an all time high as well.

      As long as he stays healthy and surrounds himself with a decent supporting cast, I just don’t see how the Heat can lose to anyone for years to come.

    75. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: But Dirk’s been better than Carmelo since he was 22. Carmelo isn’t even close. He’s a high efficiency high volume shooter. Ten-consecutive-year All-NBA player who actually deserves it. Carmelo will have to become LeBron James to come close to Dirk’s sustained greatness.

      And Dirk is a top 15-20 player of all-time. I don’t see Melo ever jumping into that list, even though I’m quite confident he will put together some great years and has some amazing playoff runs in him, he’ll be statistically better than what he has been so far (but similarly great at a tangible level) in the right conditions.

      I already know what your argument is, and I think it’s clear that players with a range of skill and scoring versatility can have a wider fluctuation in efficiency depending on how they’re used and what their shot distrubution looks like.

      Role players take the same kind of shots regardless of where they play, and thus there is less variance in their efficiency. Same goes for most star players, actually.

      Not many can do all that Melo can do off and on the ball.

      But, you’d have seen Lebron shotting efficiency skyrocket if he was even more involved off the ball with Nash or another good passing point guard.

    76. ephus

      d-mar: As long as he stays healthy and surrounds himself with a decent supporting cast, I just don’t see how the Heat can lose to anyone for years to come.

      Look upon my works and despair.

    77. thenamestsam

      d-mar:
      I’m really sorry to change the subject from the never ending referendum on Melo, but watching the game today it is so evident that LeBron plays on an entirely different level than not just the opposition but his teammates as well, and these are some of the best players in the NBA. His game has evolved where he is now more Magic than Jordan, but a better rebounder and finisher.And his confidence is at an all time high as well.

      As long as he stays healthy and surrounds himself with a decent supporting cast, I just don’t see how the Heat can lose to anyone for years to come.

      I’ve been feeling the same way. Immediately after the finals I felt like people were getting ahead of themselves talking of a dynasty, but the Olympics are swaying me more in that direction.

      Your mention of the confidence is right on point. He knows he’s the best player on the team and everyone else knows it too. He completely sets the tone for the team, drives the tempo, opens up shots for his teammates constantly. I mean he’s drawing double teams when the other guys on the floor are CP3, Kobe, Melo, KLove etc. Even knowing how great a passer he is other teams are willing to leave an All-NBA player open just to get a second man on him. As Doc Rivers mentioned during the halftime show today he’s completely dominating the tournament while averaging 12 points a game. It has been fun to watch.

    78. New Guy

      ruruland: melo was top 5 in dunks in 2005 and 2006, and that went away when his game became predominately isos in congested paint.

      But his baseline drive, power dunk is actually vintage Melo. The weight loss (no carb diet change) should allow him to finish those plays like he used to just a few years ago.

      This was just as his game was really emerging. You’ll notice the lack of tilt you see today on many of his wing touches:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El2pD8aucnw

      And as I’ve always said, the weight issue is absolutely a valid one for the ubiquitious Melo critics.

      Thanks again, Will McAvoy.

    79. massive

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: While I don’t disagree that a player having more efficient moves is a bad thing, you act like he’s offensive challenged. This is a guy who set an ALL-TIME RECORD for TS% last season!

      It did not matter at ALL that he was offensively limited because no one could stop him. Maybe he picked up some needless offensive fouls, but when you have a player who can be that dominant with a 5-foot range, you don’t tell him to change. You let him do the things that he does exceptionally well, and you ride him to the playoffs.

      The fact of the matter is NBA players/coaches don’t think “that guy is leading the league in TS%. Let’s go gameplan to stop him.” While Tyson Chandler’s TS% is the all-time record, he did it on the 2nd lowest usage he put up in his career, and it only lead to 11.3 points a game on the league’s 17th ranked offense. That’s hardly an unstoppable player. There’s nothing wrong with him making the most of his opportunities, but Tyson Chandler is only a threat to score when left wide open or if they run a pick and roll with him as the dive man.

      Interestingly enough, the Knicks were 12-1 in games in which he scored 15+ points. Another interesting stat is that they were 18-2 when he had a USG% over 15. So I guess you do have a point; give the ball to your most efficient scorer, and you will win games. He doesn’t need to be shooting 12 footers with those kinds of results. And if Amar’e gets his jumper back, there will be even less reason for him to shoot. But still, I don’t think Tyson Chandler is unstoppable offensively.

    80. nicos

      massive: The fact of the matter is NBA players/coaches don’t think “that guy is leading the league in TS%. Let’s go gameplan to stop him.” While Tyson Chandler’s TS% is the all-time record, he did it on the 2nd lowest usage he put up in his career, and it only lead to 11.3 points a game on the league’s 17th ranked offense. That’s hardly an unstoppable player. There’s nothing wrong with him making the most of his opportunities, but Tyson Chandler is only a threat to score when left wide open or if they run a pick and roll with him as the dive man.

      Interestingly enough, the Knicks were 12-1 in games in which he scored 15+ points. Another interesting stat is that they were 18-2 when he had a USG% over 15. So I guess you do have a point; give the ball to your most efficient scorer, and you will win games. He doesn’t need to be shooting 12 footers with those kinds of results. And if Amar’e gets his jumper back, there will be even less reason for him to shoot. But still, I don’t think Tyson Chandler is unstoppable offensively.

      And his usage was low despite them trying to get him the ball a ton- he was the primary screener in a screen and roll offense for most of the season. I’d also like to see how many of the guard’s turnovers occurred trying to force the ball into Chandler. Still, he absolutely had a great season and having a guy with a TS% that high is really valuable even at low usage.

    81. ruruland

      massive: The fact of the matter is NBA players/coaches don’t think “that guy is leading the league in TS%. Let’s go gameplan to stop him.” While Tyson Chandler’s TS% is the all-time record, he did it on the 2nd lowest usage he put up in his career, and it only lead to 11.3 points a game on the league’s 17th ranked offense. That’s hardly an unstoppable player. There’s nothing wrong with him making the most of his opportunities, but Tyson Chandler is only a threat to score when left wide open or if they run a pick and roll with him as the dive man.

      Interestingly enough, the Knicks were 12-1 in games in which he scored 15+ points. Another interesting stat is that they were 18-2 when he had a USG% over 15. So I guess you do have a point; give the ball to your most efficient scorer, and you will win games. He doesn’t need to be shooting 12 footers with those kinds of results. And if Amar’e gets his jumper back, there will be even less reason for him to shoot. But still, I don’t think Tyson Chandler is unstoppable offensively.

      The whole idea is that you’re not going to get more than 5-6 dunks a game, perhaps maybe 8-10 total opportunities at the high end, counting fouls and turnovers.

      I’d be shocked if many of those wins were against playoff teams, bad teams give up more of the easy stuff.

    82. ruruland

      nicos: And his usage was low despite them trying to get him the ball a ton- he was the primary screener in a screen and roll offense for most of the season.I’d also like to see how many of the guard’s turnovers occurred trying to force the ball into Chandler.Still, he absolutely had a great season and having a guy with a TS% that high is really valuable even at low usage.

      Being a very effective screener and finisher is valuable. Being an above average offensive rebounder is valuable. Not being able to make offensive plays outside of three feet diminishes his overall offensive value.

      There is nothing in advanced stats that accounts for what a player cannot do within a team context.

      I don’t think it would be unreasonable to speculate that for every possession on offense that Chandler finishes or sets a solid screen that leads to an opening, there is a possessions where his inability to put any pressure at all on the defense allows his defender to help off on other player.

      I still think he’s an overall net plus on offense, but I would take a less efficient finisher who had a wider range of skills on offense over Chandler.

      Chandler limitations made Amar’e a jump-shooter last year with Chandler in the game, and we know what Amar’s jump shooting numbers look like.

      While I think Amar’e returns to normal next year where he can function as a spacing four with Chandler, it’s no coincidence Amar’e had a HUGe slip in efficiency with Chandler at center, as the Knicks were 12 ppg worse on offense with the two on the court.

    83. Bruno Almeida

      Juany8:

      (Quo

      come on, that’s just stupid.

      if Melo EVER has a year like Bernard’s 83-84 season, I’ll go to my classes naked for a whole week.

      Bernard carried Bill Cartwright, old Ray Williams, grandma-old Truck Robinson and Rory freaking Sparrow to the playoffs, won against a pretty good Detroit team and took the series with the eventual league champions Celtics to 7 games, when they had Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ and everybody else.

      and he scored 27 ppg while having a .619 TS%, even though he was a pretty mediocre free throw shooter and never shot any threes…

      comparing Bernard to Melo is just stupid, I’m sorry.

    84. er

      Dude get your panties out of a bunch. I never said anyone was equal…..dirk has clearly had a better career. At the same time he is a few years older and melo has time to catch him in a few areas. The reason I brought him up is because both are known as potent scorers and not great defenders and or leaders at times. (Yes I know dirk has been more effecient) Also Dirk has had plenty of detractors over his career, another reason for comparison. He also

      JK47: Hold on a second. Are you telling me that Dirk Nowitzki and Carmelo Anthony are anything resembling equals as basketball players? Because if you are I now know that I can go ahead and ignore anything you ever say again.

    85. er

      @ jk47 you can get your panties out of a bunch on dirk. I never said melo was better, I was moreless comparing them as their games are way more about just scoring,(yes I know dirk is more effecient) but he is also a few years older and melo stil has 5-7 good years in him. I was also comparing the never ending scrutiny that both have faced until dirk won

    86. Juany8

      Bruno Almeida: come on, that’s just stupid.

      if Melo EVER has a year like Bernard’s 83-84 season, I’ll go to my classes naked for a whole week.

      Bernard carried Bill Cartwright, old Ray Williams, grandma-old Truck Robinson and Rory freaking Sparrow to the playoffs, won against a pretty good Detroit team and took the series with the eventual league champions Celtics to 7 games, when they had Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ and everybody else.

      and he scored 27 ppg while having a .619 TS%, even though he was a pretty mediocre free throw shooter and never shot any threes…

      comparing Bernard to Melo is just stupid, I’m sorry.

      So he had one great season in his career and it’s obvious he’s the better player? Melo’s career isn’t close to over yet, and he showed signs of improvement from his time on the Nuggets the past 2 years. No Melo hasn’t had a season close to Bernard’s best, but when one guy is one of the favorite Knicks ever for one good season, and Melo’s barely played 82 regular season games with the Knicks, you’d think you could at least wait for a full proper season with the guy before condemming him to sucking. Let’s face it, even if Melo does shoot a .590 TS% and gets 4 assists per game, this team STILL isn’t beating Miami. And everyone will be right about the Knicks’ championship hopes despite being dead wrong about Melo.

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