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Saturday, October 25, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Aug 01 2012)

  • [New York Times] U.S. Find Supersonic Mode to Crush Tunisia (Wed, 01 Aug 2012 00:37:40 GMT)
    Tunisia slowed down the dazzling U.S. men’s basketball team in the first half before the Olympic champions found supersonic mode to record a 110-63 win on Tuesday that ended the second batch of games in Group A.

  • 55 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Aug 01 2012)

    1. er

      that makes no sense…..why would someone take less just to play with bro? they can do that shit at home

    2. ephus

      er:
      that makes no sense…..why would someone take less just to play with bro? they can do that shit at home

      By many published accounts, JR Smith has been subsidizing Chris Smith for years. He covered Chris Smith’s tuition at Louisville so that Pitino could use the scholarship on someone else. Any money that Chris Smith gets from the Knicks reduces JR’s burden.

      I expect that the NBA will put close scrutiny on this deal. To take it to the ridiculous extreme, a team could try to entice Dwight Howard by offering to also give Jahaziel Howard (his younger brother who played in Canada) $10 million/year.

    3. DS

      Wow, who knew nepotism would pervade our precious National Basketball Association the way it has pretty much every other institution on the planet?

    4. ephus

      If you make the most conspiratorial assumptions, the Knicks are spending $3.3 million and two roster spots to keep JR Smith.

      Much more likely is that they told JR Smith that they would bring Chris into the summer league and that he would have a “real chance” to make the roster. There really is not a lot of downside to wasting the 15th roster spot, especially since the Knicks could always cut Chris Smith if they needed to bring in another player on the veteran’s minimum.

    5. er

      haha true but if he makes more than like 350k league will probably investigate……anywhoo its no matter he will never see the court smh

      ephus: By many published accounts, JR Smith has been subsidizing Chris Smith for years.He covered Chris Smith’s tuition at Louisville so that Pitino could use the scholarship on someone else.Any money that Chris Smith gets from the Knicks reduces JR’s burden.

      I expect that the NBA will put close scrutiny on this deal.To take it to the ridiculous extreme, a team could try to entice Dwight Howard by offering to also give Jahaziel Howard (his younger brother who played in Canada) $10 million/year.

    6. ephus

      er:
      haha true but if he makes more than like 350k league will probably investigate……anywhoo its no matter he will never see the courtsmh

      The league minimum is $473K. That is much more than the difference between the Knicks’ offer to JR ($2.8 million) and the mini-MLE ($3.0 million).

    7. ephus

      BigBlueAL:
      I can only hope/assume it is a non-guaranteed contract like Copeland’s deal is.

      So long as the NBA approves the contract, I am absolutely indifferent to whether Chris Smith gets a guarantee or not. Giving him a guarantee does nothing to the Knicks’ roster flexibility.

      Of course, the NBA may be less willing to approve the contract if it is guaranteed, because that makes it look more like disguised compensation to JR Smith.

    8. Brian Cronin

      1 Shump
      2 Melo
      3 STAT
      4 Chandler
      5 JR
      6 Kidd
      7 Felton
      8 Camby
      9 Thomas
      10 Brewer
      11 Prigioni
      12 Copeland
      13 White
      14 Novak
      15 Second Smith

      Seriously? No Extra E?

    9. Brian Cronin

      They better at least cut Copeland for Extra E or some other back-up 4. There is seriously an opportunity on this team for a third-string 4/third-string 3 to possibly get some minutes. Not a great opportunity, but an opportunity nonetheless.

    10. ephus

      During the off-season, a team can have up to 20 players on the roster. So, they can sign Extra (or another back-up 4) and wait to see how things play out during training camp.

    11. Brian Cronin

      Oh, phew. Thanks, ephus. So long as this team goes into the season with a back-up 4, I don’t care if the 15th man is Copeland or Smith. If it keeps JR happy, then whatever, it is silly and amusing, but it doesn’t really bug me.

    12. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      1 Shump
      2 Melo
      3 STAT
      4 Chandler
      5 JR
      6 Kidd
      7 Felton
      8 Camby
      9 Thomas
      10 Brewer
      11 Prigioni
      12 Copeland
      13 White
      14 Novak
      15 Second Smith

      Seriously? No Extra E?

      To be fair, what can Extra E do that Novak can’t? He’s a better defender but he’s still below average overall. Not to mention that neither Grunwald or Woodson ever had him on THEIR team. It’s starting to appear Woodson is planning on using Novak and Melo as backup 4’s, with Brewer and JR being able to help back up the wing spots (especially once Shump comes back). Also wouldn’t surprised me if Grunwald did a minor trade near the deadline to solidify the top of the lineup (maybe Prigioni is actually legit, Kidd is playing like it’s the 2011 playoffs, so Novak, Felton, and Brewer get traded for someone like Jeff Green or Luis Scola?)

    13. ephus

      Juany8: Also wouldn’t surprised me if Grunwald did a minor trade near the deadline to solidify the top of the lineup (maybe Prigioni is actually legit, Kidd is playing like it’s the 2011 playoffs, so Novak, Felton, and Brewer get traded for someone like Jeff Green or Luis Scola?)

      Because he was acquired off of the Amnesty waiver wire, Scola cannot be traded until next July.

    14. Nick C.

      I know we were all fond of Extra E – but didn’t his shooting drop off dramatically after the first month or so? To be fair I think he hurt his hand or elbow or thumb, but still that doesn’t stop anyone from bringing it up in other contexts. Then he went and had a pretty crappy year this season (again there were some injuries but still). My assumption is he falls under the Baron Davis rule of pickups “he’s cheap and if he sucks you cut him”. Are Martrell Webster, Travis Outlaw, Rasual Butler or other such players available?

    15. Juany8

      ephus: Because he was acquired off of the Amnesty waiver wire, Scola cannot be traded until next July.

      Oh I didn’t know that, to be honest I was just throwing out names of decent players available if the Knicks decide they have TOO much depth. Imagine if they somehow pulled off a Taj Gibson? In that case, it might actually be a good thing if Amar’e is injured lol!

    16. SeeWhyDee77

      Ok..so I’m sittin here at work just randomly lookin at the stats of some of our players during downtime..an I hate 2 say this cuz I kno imma catch hell 4 it..but we need 2 get Stat more involved. Like..we really need him scoring. Over his career..when he’s scoring he’s been a devastatingly consistent performer…and his teams won. Granted he had Nash feeding him..but his best years were: 26 an 9 with .559 shooting, 25 an 9 with .590 shooting and 25 and 8 with .502 shooting. In those years his teams won 62, 55, an 42 (1st NY season) games. I guess what I’m tryina say is when he’s got it goin his teams do well so now that Felton’s back Woodson an Melo would do well to incorporate him more. Last season was putrid on Stat’s parts by his standards an yes I know he will never be that super explosive beast we’ve all seen before. But the bottom line is in this league there is nothin like a big who can get buckets and FT’s..and Stat can still do that if we feed him properly. Hopefully Woodson, Melo, Felton an Stat cand find a way 2 make it work

    17. johnlocke

      Stat’s biggest issue last year (on offense) was his inability to make the mid-range jumper with any kind of consistency. That shot sets up his whole game and teams just started giving it to him and he gladly obliged by bricking these jumpers for the majority of the season.

      SeeWhyDee77:

      But the bottom line is in this league there is nothin like a big who can get buckets and FT’s..and Stat can still do that if we feed him properly. Hopefully Woodson, Melo, Felton an Stat cand find a way 2 make it work

    18. ephus

      Johnlocke,

      Before last season, Amar’e bulked up because he expected to play a lot in the pivot. Once Chandler was acquired, Stat was moved back to his traditional 4. For the first two-thirds of the season, Amar’e consistently missed open elbow jumpers that were set up when the ball reversed to him on the weakside. Because he was missing those shots, teams did not switch on the off-ball pin-down picks that were designed to open him up at the elbow. Plus, the missed mid-range jumper is the shot least likely to lead to an offensive rebound.

      In the last third of the season, Stat lost the extra weight and started to return to his previous offensive form. He still was not making his elbow jumpers, but he was getting to the rim after the catch at the elbow.

      If the offense creates open elbow jumpers for Stat and he fails to convert, that is on him, not the offensive scheme. If he is not a threat from that spot, he loses most of his offensive value because teams can slough off of him to stop his penetration and clog the lane when others drive.

    19. ruruland

      ephus:
      Johnlocke,

      Before last season, Amar’e bulked up because he expected to play a lot in the pivot.Once Chandler was acquired, Stat was moved back to his traditional 4.For the first two-thirds of the season, Amar’e consistently missed open elbow jumpers that were set up when the ball reversed to him on the weakside.Because he was missing those shots, teams did not switch on the off-ball pin-down picks that were designed to open him up at the elbow.Plus, the missed mid-range jumper is the shot least likely to lead to an offensive rebound.

      In the last third of the season, Stat lost the extra weight and started to return to his previous offensive form.He still was not making his elbow jumpers, but he was getting to the rim after the catch at the elbow.

      If the offense creates open elbow jumpers for Stat and he fails to convert, that is on him, not the offensive scheme.If he is not a threat from that spot, he loses most of his offensive value because teams can slough off of him to stop his penetration and clog the lane when others drive.

      Great post. 2011-2012 was pretty clearly an anomaly for the guy…….

      3-9 feet was down 13-18 percent from the past 4 years.

      10-15 feet was down 5-10 percent…

      16-23 feet was down 7-13 percent….

      Pretty incredible considering the up-tick in at the rim percentage.

      Fluke.

      How much better is the Knicks offense if Amar’e simply finishes similar to his 4 year averages?

    20. johnno

      Seriously, does anyone really care who takes the 15th spot on the roster? Whoever it is isn’t likely to suit up for many games, much less see playing time in a non-blowout situation. Also, who cares if his deal is guaranteed or not. If he’s guaranteed the league minimum and someone really worthwhile comes along, they’ll eat the $450K he’s guaranteed.

      BigBlueAL: I can only hope/assume it is a non-guaranteed contract like Copeland’s deal is.

    21. Juany8

      Brian Cronin: Hell, if CAA got Paul to New York, I’d be totally cool with them changing the name to that.

      Lol, this, more than perhaps anything, shows why they should have kept Lin. If Chris Paul insists he wants to come to New York (or at least makes it his preferred destination) a package of Lin, Shump, and Novak/JR with a pick or 2 thrown in somehow would be pretty damn attractive if you’re going to lose him anyways. A starting 5 of Lin, Shump, Novak, Griffin, and Jordan would at least be sellable no?

    22. Juany8

      ruruland: Great post. 2011-2012 was pretty clearly an anomaly for the guy…….

      3-9 feet was down 13-18 percent from the past 4 years.

      10-15 feet was down 5-10 percent…

      16-23 feet was down 7-13 percent….

      Pretty incredible considering the up-tick in at the rim percentage.

      Fluke.

      How much better is the Knicks offense if Amar’e simply finishes similar to his 4 year averages?

      This is where I wish Synergy and Hoopdata numbers could be combined. I’m interested to know what Amare’s percentages on jumpers were in years past, but specifically in spot up situations vs. Isolation and pick and pop. Last year he had very few pick and pop situations, and the lane was too clogged with Chandler inside (and Fields outside) for him to isolate consistently well, which he did often his first year in New York.

      Instead, like ephus mentioned, most of his jumpers were him spotting up or curling off of Melo/Chandler action. It might be that he was not at all used to that style of play (Pau Gasol also had some difficulties as a straight spread 4 next to Bynum) and it certainly doesn’t help that both Chandler and Amar’e are poor interior passers. At the same time, I know everyone likes to point at Melo and Amar’e, but wouldn’t it be nice if the third leg of our “big 3″ could make even a 10 foot jumper? It would lower his overall efficiency sure, but other than THCJ consider that a problem if it meant teams couldn’t pack the paint?

    23. Brian Cronin

      Lol, this, more than perhaps anything, shows why they should have kept Lin. If Chris Paul insists he wants to come to New York (or at least makes it his preferred destination) a package of Lin, Shump, and Novak/JR with a pick or 2 thrown in somehow would be pretty damn attractive if you’re going to lose him anyways. A starting 5 of Lin, Shump, Novak, Griffin, and Jordan would at least be sellable no?

      You’re preaching to the choir on that one. ;)

    24. BigBlueAL

      johnno:
      Seriously, does anyone really care who takes the 15th spot on the roster?Whoever it is isn’t likely to suit up for many games, much less see playing time in a non-blowout situation.Also, who cares if his deal is guaranteed or not.If he’s guaranteed the league minimum and someone really worthwhile comes along, they’ll eat the $450K he’s guaranteed.

      He was beyond awful during Summer League. Signing someone’s brother as a favor despite him being awful is horrible (unless it was LeBron’s brother cause whatever he wants you do, not for JR freaking Smith). I mean if its just a training camp invite whatever which is why if its non-guaranteed deal fine. But to actually carry him on the roster during the season?? That would be a freaking joke.

    25. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, it is a joke, but eh, David Wingate cashed a paycheck from the Knicks for two seasons when he was as washed up as you possibly could be just because he was Ewing’s pal. You’re not used to seeing your non-star players getting the same treatment that someone like Ewing got, but it is the same principle. Is it ridiculous? Sure, but eh, if it is just the 15th man and he is not keeping them from having someone actually good on the team, I can’t complain too much.

      And this all predicates on him actually making the team, which is surely no guarantee.

    26. BigBlueAL

      BTW we had this debate when the 15th man came down to Ewing Jr and Extra E and alot of people were saying just keep Ewing for good karma and stuff regardless that he wasnt the better player since who cares who the 15th man is.

      Well it was a good thing they kept Extra E and not Ewing that season because he became a pretty important part of the team. So while the 15th man isnt that big a deal it is still nice to have a 15th man who good possibly help the team not keep a 15th man who couldnt even contribute to the Summer League team.

    27. Count de Pennies

      Juany8: If Chris Paul insists he wants to come to New York (or at least makes it his preferred destination) a package of Lin, Shump, and Novak/JR with a pick or 2 thrown in somehow would be pretty damn attractive if you’re going to lose him anyways.

      Did I miss something? Why do I keep reading that the Knicks could have easily packaged Lin in a deal for Chris Paul?

      It’s hardly an ironclad certainty that the Clips – owned by one of the NBA’s most notorious skinflints – would have wanted to take on Lin and his 5/5/15 million dollar contract. The frugal Sterling has let much better players than Lin walk away for less than that.

    28. BigBlueAL

      Brian Cronin:
      Yeah, it is a joke, but eh, David Wingate cashed a paycheck from the Knicks for two seasons when he was as washed up as you possibly could be just because he was Ewing’s pal. You’re not used to seeing your non-star players getting the same treatment that someone like Ewing got, but it is the same principle. Is it ridiculous? Sure, but eh, if it is just the 15th man and he is not keeping them from having someone actually good on the team, I can’t complain too much.

      And this all predicates on him actually making the team, which is surely no guarantee.

      Well like you said, one player you are making happy is the greatest player in franchise history and the other is JR freaking Smith. Plus at least Wingate was a veteran NBA player (12 years at the time he signed with the Knicks) who had previously played on a team that made the NBA Finals and he was part of the rotation on that team who had a specific role at least (defensive wing off the bench).

      Whatever I know in the end its nothing to get worked up about but this potential move actually pisses me off more than letting Lin go lol

    29. Juany8

      BigBlueAL:
      BTW we had this debate when the 15th man came down to Ewing Jr and Extra E and alot of people were saying just keep Ewing for good karma and stuff regardless that he wasnt the better player since who cares who the 15th man is.

      Well it was a good thing they kept Extra E and not Ewing that season because he became a pretty important part of the team.So while the 15th man isnt that big a deal it is still nice to have a 15th man who good possibly help the team not keep a 15th man who couldnt even contribute to the Summer League team.

      To be fair, I doubt Extra E lit up summer league. And Adam Morrison and Josh Selby just dominated so… Let’s face it, JR probably could have got more than 2.8 somewhere out there (seriously, there were some stupid fucking teams this summer), with Shump out he is a very important part of the rotation

    30. Z-man

      Sorry, Juany, I think the Clips laugh at that package unless Lin turns out to be so good, why bother trading for Paul anyway?

    31. Brian Cronin

      To be fair, I doubt Extra E lit up summer league. And Adam Morrison and Josh Selby just dominated so… Let’s face it, JR probably could have got more than 2.8 somewhere out there (seriously, there were some stupid fucking teams this summer), with Shump out he is a very important part of the rotation

      I think the whole “JR passed up more money” thing is a bit overblown, since while yes, he could have gotten the mini-MLE elsewhere that’s all he would have gotten – the mini-MLE for X amount of years. Here, he got just slightly less in the first year that he would have gotten elsewhere but then he’ll get a lot more than the mini-MLE next season when he turns down his player option and re-signs for the MLE.

      So in the short term, he passed up an extra $200,000, but over two years, he’ll make nearly $2 million more as a Knick. Over three years, he’ll make nearly $4 million more as a Knick, etc etc.

      And that’s not even getting into the matter of whether Chris Smith actually does get a roster spot, in which case he might not be giving up any money this year.

    32. Juany8

      Count de Pennies: Did I miss something? Why do I keep reading that the Knicks could have easily packaged Lin in a deal for Chris Paul?

      It’s hardly an ironclad certainty that the Clips – owned by one of the NBA’s most notorious skinflints – would have wanted to take on Lin and his 5/5/15 million dollar contract. The frugal Sterling has let much better players than Lin walk away for less than that.

      The problem with Lin’s contract is the luxury tax implications, not the 15 at the end. For a non-tax team like the clippers would probably be, Lin’s contract is very reasonable, and you get someone to at least excite the fan base if Chris Paul leaves (and Sterling, as you pointed out, is exactly the kind of owner that would value profits over logic). Considering Chris Paul is getting a fully max contract, Sterling would probably save money with that trade.

      Now I’m not saying that this would be a sure thing, but it’s not THAT unlikely, and for a player of Paul’s caliber you certainly take some risks. Even if it wasn’t Paul, maybe Dwight at some point starts considering an option like the Knicks? No package would be as good as Chandler and Lin would it? Seriously Lin was a pretty nice trade piece, even if all the veterans the Knicks brought in play pretty well, they can only go down from here on out. Amar’e, Melo, and JR are the only players on the team who could noticeably improve with some maturity (and the pressure of the New York media) but none of them are getting traded any time soon. Lin was the rare player more marketable than his skills would suggest, and he actually had some solid skill (He’s not freaking Tebow or Jimmer lol)

    33. ephus

      On Chris Paul — If he insists at mid-season that he is not going to resign with the Clippers and wants to be traded to New York and threatens to go to Atlanta (which will have cap room) as a free agent during the off season if he is not traded, the Clippers will be put to the test. The best Knicks package (Felton, Shumpert and Chandler) does not give full value for Paul, but it is better than letting him walk for free.

      All of this idle speculation is because (1) Chris Paul made the infamous toast at ‘Melo’s wedding that Paul, Stat and ‘Melo would team up in NY, (2) CP3 is repped by CAA and (3) CP3 declined to extend his deal this offseason.

      I would be really surprised if Paul made this power play. He would have to burn his bridges in Los Angeles and it would get ugly. On the other hand, Donald Sterling is just about the easiest NBA owner to take on in a PR contest.

    34. Juany8

      Z-man:
      Sorry, Juany, I think the Clips laugh at that package unless Lin turns out to be so good, why bother trading for Paul anyway?

      Because he’s a free agent? You think the Clippers want to rebuild after signing Griffin to a mammoth extension and overpaying for Jordan? Look at what teams are offering for Dwight Howard, I’d much rather have Lin, Shump, and Novak at their salaries than Brooks Lopez and some late round picks. Who’s going to be throwing in players better than Shump and Lin? The Rockets? Trust me, I love Morey and all but as soon as the word “potential” starts being replaced with “production” for all those young players, their trade value will plummet. After this Dwight scenario is over, Chris Paul is going to be left totally available with New York as his preferred destination.

    35. ephus

      Juany8: After this Dwight scenario is over, Chris Paul is going to be left totally available with New York as his preferred destination.

      The threat only works if Sterling buys that Paul would rather go to Atlanta for a 4 year contract with 4.5% raises than stay in LA for a 5 year contract with 7.5% raises. Even then, Sterling might try to call his bluff or prefer the cap space to the Knicks package.

    36. Brian Cronin

      Because he’s a free agent?

      For what it is worth, Z-Man’s point there was not “why trade Paul” but “why trade Lin if he is good enough to trade for Paul.” I think that Lin even at the peak of Linsanity was only roughly as good as Paul, so I’d always take Paul if I had a shot at him.

    37. ephus

      As I move on to stage 5 of my Linsanity grief, I have accepted that he is not coming back and stopped looking at all of the moves that would have been possible if only the Knicks had matched.

      In addition, if the Knicks had matched, Lin would have a veto over a trade to the Clippers. A RFA who is retained by matching an offer sheet cannot be traded without his permission for a full year. The Nets signed Brook Lopez to his extension before he signed an offer sheet just to avoid the need to get his approval for a trade to Orlando.

      If Chris Paul wants to Bigfoot his way to NY, it is conceivable that he (and his friends at CAA) could make it happen. The Knicks could offer enough to make the Clippers consider the trade, if they believe that CP3 really would walk to Atlanta.

    38. Z-man

      Juany8: Who’s going to be throwing in players better than Shump and Lin?

      Shump is recovering from an extremely serious injury and surgery. Lin has a whopping 26 meaningful games under his belt. Neither shot well enough for anything meaningful to be concluded regarding whether they will progress or revert to their less-than-stellar college numbers. I love the guy, but if Shump’s shooting doesn’t improve, he’s basically Ronnie Brewer with a better handle, and if he doesn’t recover 100% from ACL/meniscus surgery (I did some research and it is far from a guarantee that he will) then he is not worth much in a trade. If Lin’s shooting, defense and left hand don’t improve/stabilize, he tops out at Brandon Jennings.

      All I’m saying is let’s wait and see how these guys do in November before we start driving ourselves crazy with Chris Paul fantasies.

    39. thenamestsam

      ephus:

      If Chris Paul wants to Bigfoot his way to NY, it is conceivable that he (and his friends at CAA) could make it happen.The Knicks could offer enough to make the Clippers consider the trade, if they believe that CP3 really would walk to Atlanta.

      I just don’t see how this is going to work. It’s the nets-magic situation all over again. Paul can ask to come to NY until he’s blue in the face but since he won’t be able to come here as a free agent he can’t threaten to come here no matter what. Given that, other teams are going to get in on the bidding. In the situation you’re laying out Paul has acknowledged that he would also sign in Atlanta. Wouldn’t they beat the Knicks weakass offer?

      The bottom line is that unless the player can also get to their preferred destination as a free agent they have no leverage to force their way there. Other teams will beat the offer and dare the player to leave the money on the table to go to a destination that isn’t even their first choice. The only way it happens is if the Clips gm decides to do CP3 a solid. And as we’ve seen with Howard, expecting the gm you’re strong arming to do you a favor is an unreliable strategy.

    40. massive

      Well, we can offer Tyson Chandler to a third team in exchange for draft picks, prospects, and a good player that we can send back to the Clippers. “Anything is possible,” to quote KG. You just have to think outside the box. In reality, the odds are that CP3 doesn’t sign here. I think it’s more likely that the Knicks work a 3 team trade for Dwight Howard, albeit both are very unlikely possibilities. I just don’t think CAA is gonna sit by and let Carmelo not win a championship (or at least be as good as post 2008 Boston).

      Just speaking hypothetically, is a rotation of CP3, Brewer, Melo, Amar’e, Camby, Smith, and Novak good enough to win a championship if LeBron doesn’t get hurt? Assuming we keep Novak, of course. I think we’d be the 4th best team in the NBA behind Miami, OKC, and SAS.

    41. Brian Cronin

      Just speaking hypothetically, is a rotation of CP3, Brewer, Melo, Amar’e, Camby, Smith, and Novak good enough to win a championship if LeBron doesn’t get hurt? Assuming we keep Novak, of course. I think we’d be the 4th best team in the NBA behind Miami, OKC, and SAS.

      Yes, that team could win a title definitely.

    42. knicknyk

      knicknyk:
      Did it work?

      Excellent. Brian thank you so much. I was a long time lurker and was never able to post for some months but now I can. Love this site, particularly the comments and the insight that drives the posts. Much better than the ESPN blogs. Very excited. Thanks again for figuring out the problem for me Brian. Much appreciated.

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