Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, April 17, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Apr 10 2013)

  • [New York Post] Streaking Knicks spank Wizards for 1st Atlantic crown since ’94 (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:09:19 -0500)
    The Knicks hadn’t won a division title in almost two decades, hadn’t finished atop the Atlantic since Carmelo Anthony was 10 years old. The wait seemed interminable â?? and thanks to Anthony’s dominance and last night’s 120-99 thrashing of the Wizards, it’s finally over.
    Anthony poured…

  • [New York Post] Savor the night, but real goal awaits in playoffs (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 03:15:31 -0500)
    To the Yankees fan, winning a division title provides all the frenzied excitement and unexpected thrill of a delay-of-game warning. When you win 27 World Series, divisions are utterly bland.
    But to the Knicks fan, winning a division title â?? specifically the here and now of THIS division title, which last…

  • [New York Post] Knicks’ Kenyon Martin exits with sprained ankle (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 02:09:49 -0500)
    As if the Knicks’ big-man crisis wasn’t serious enough, power forward Kenyon Martin sprained his left ankle in their 120-99 Atlantic-Division clinching win over the Wizards Tuesday night and had to be helped off the Garden floor. X-rays were negative, and no timetable was given for his return.
    “He…

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Notebook: Melo maintains hot hand (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 02:01:08 EDT)
    From about the midway point of the third quarter to the end of the period against the Washington Wizards, Carmelo Anthony had his stamp on the entire New York Knicks’ offense in different ways.
    Melo threw Kenyon Martin an alley-oop for a dunk; he drove, hung in the air and finished a difficult layup; he had a putback layup; he spun on his defender in the low post and took off for a two-handed jam; he had a quick release off the dribble; out of a double team, he delivered a crafty, underhanded pass to Chris Copeland for a 3-pointer; he later hit a 3-pointer himself; and then he was able to get off an acrobatic layup as the buzzer sounded.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Small ball fuels franchise-record 20 3s (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 01:33:33 EDT)
    Thirty-two-point-two percent.
    That’s how poor the New York Knicks were shooting from 3-point range during their roughest stretch of the season, from Feb. 6 to March 17, when they posted a 7-11 record.
    During most of that time, the Knicks had five big men available: Tyson Chandler, Amar’e Stoudemire, Kenyon Martin, Marcus Camby and Kurt Thomas.
    Entering Tuesday night, they had only Martin and tied a franchise record for most 3-pointers in a game with 20 (on 36 attempts) in the midst of extending their league-best winning streak to 13 with a 120-99 victory over the Washington Wizards.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Knicks nab Atlantic Division title (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 00:52:31 EDT)
    Nineteen years is a long time.
    So you’d think maybe the New York Knicks would want to celebrate a little after clinching their first division title since 1994 on Tuesday.
    But other than a few blue T-shirts, there wasn’t much to commemorate the moment in the team’s locker room.
    Instead, the Knicks made it clear that they’re focused on loftier goals.
    “The big picture is winning a title,” coach Mike Woodson said. “That’s all I’m in it for.”
    The Knicks took a step toward that end Tuesday with a 120-99 win over the Washington Wizards.

  • [New York Times] Knicks Win 1st Atlantic Division Title Since 1994 (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:33:55 GMT)
    The Atlantic Division title has gone from preseason goal to late-season stepping stone.

  • [New York Times] Lakers Beat Hornets 104-96 to Stay in Hunt (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:28:06 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant looked around, drew in a breath and gathered himself. Time for one of the game’s best closers to get to work with the score tied to start the fourth quarter.

  • [New York Times] Warriors Top Wolves 105-89 to Clinch Playoff Spot (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 05:10:01 GMT)
    Klay Thompson scored 30 points, Stephen Curry added 24 points and 10 assists and the Golden State Warriors clinched a playoff berth by routing the Minnesota Timberwolves 105-89 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Shumpert’s Hair Design Runs Afoul of the League (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:52:20 GMT)
    Iman Shumpert sported an Adidas logo for a few days, until the N.B.A. invoked a league rule.

  • [New York Times] Knicks 120, Wizards 99: Knicks Rout Wizards to Win Atlantic Division Title (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:15:54 GMT)
    The Knicks rained 3-pointers and deployed backcourt pressure on the Wizards to win their 13th consecutive game and their first Atlantic Division title in nearly two decades.

  • [New York Times] Westbrook, Durant Lead Thunder Over Jazz 90-80 (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 03:49:15 GMT)
    Russell Westbrook scored 25 points, Kevin Durant added 21 and the Oklahoma City Thunder beat the Utah Jazz 90-80 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Nets 104, 76ers 83: Nets Cruise Toward Playoffs, With Evans Suddenly a Force (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 03:35:16 GMT)
    Thanks to a milestone performance from Reggie Evans, the Nets easily dispatched the 76ers on Tuesday to close in on the fourth seed in the Eastern Conference playoffs.

  • [New York Times] Goaltending Call on Final Shot Gives Rockets Win (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 03:34:13 GMT)
    Jermaine O’Neal was called for goaltending on James Harden’s last-second 3-point shot and the Houston Rockets defeated the Phoenix Suns 101-98 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Knicks Win 1st Atlantic Division Title Since 1994 (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 03:28:04 GMT)
    They hung nicely in the lockers, T-shirts that can only be won, not bought.

  • [New York Times] Heat 94, Bucks 83: Heat Tie Team Mark With 61st Win (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 03:01:36 GMT)
    The Heat tied a franchise single-season record by winning for the 61st time. Miami needs one more win or one San Antonio loss to clinch the top overall seed for the playoffs.

  • [New York Times] DeRozan Helps Raptors Hold Off Bulls 101-98 (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 02:58:12 GMT)
    DeMar DeRozan scored 20 points, Rudy Gay added 19 and the Toronto Raptors beat the Chicago Bulls 101-98 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Conley, Randolph Lead Grizzlies Past Bobcats (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 02:43:44 GMT)
    Mike Conley scored 20 points, Zach Randolph had 11 points and 13 rebounds, and the Memphis Grizzlies beat the Charlotte Bobcats 94-75 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Pacers Rally From 20 Down to Beat Cavaliers 99-94 (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 02:31:32 GMT)
    George Hill scored 27 points and David West added 15 to help the Indiana Pacers rally from a 20-point deficit for a 99-94 win over the Cleveland Cavaliers on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Lopez, Evans Lead Nets Past 76ers, 104-83 (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 02:22:08 GMT)
    Brook Lopez had 29 points and 11 rebounds, Reggie Evans added 17 points and 24 boards, and the Brooklyn Nets firmly held their ground in the Eastern Conference playoff race with a 104-83 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Jazz Lose Enes Kanter to Shoulder Injury (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 01:23:19 GMT)
    Utah Jazz center Enes Kanter will have surgery to repair damage on his dislocated left shoulder and will miss the rest of the season.

  • [New York Daily News] Back on Top: Melo’s scoring tear continues as Knicks clinch Atlantic Division (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:55:27 GMT)
    The sizzling Knicks tied a franchise record with 20 three-pointers to easily extend their winning streak to a baker’s dozen, cementing their first Atlantic Division crown since 1994 for their 13th consecutive victory, a 120-96 rout of the Wizards at the Garden.

  • [New York Daily News] Isola: Knicks can’t escape with division title unscathed (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:55:21 GMT)
    This time we were spared the confetti shower. So at least the Knicks learned from last year’s excessive celebration after the franchise posted its one and only playoff win in 11 seasons. Tuesday night’s reaction to the Knicks’ first Atlantic Division title in 19 years was appropriately subdued.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: Big men dropping like flies (Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:43:44 GMT)
    The Knicks have won enough games this season to clinch their first division title since 1994, but they continue to lose big men on a regular basis.

  • 119 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Apr 10 2013)

    1. mcliff05

      At this point the streak might actually be hurting more than helping. We have the Atlantic wrapped up and a 2.5 game lead over Indiana. All of our big men are banged up, so why not basically forfeit v. Chicago and bench melo, jr and chandler? I understand wanted to send a message to the Bulls after those first three horror shows, but its all about getting healthy right now.

    2. er

      Saw the Espn nbarank . What a joke with Melo at 9. He has had a better season than Kobe, wade and Westbrook. He’s right up there with CP3 and KD this year

    3. Juany8

      er:
      Saw the Espn nbarank . What a joke with Melo at 9. He has had a better season than Kobe, wade and Westbrook. He’s right up there with CP3 and KD this year

      He started off at 20 and espn likes to point out that Melo sucks at defense right before praising harden, Kobe, and Chris Paul. Look, Melo could have kept his .600 ts% for the season and people would have said he doesn’t rebound enough for a player playing PF. It’s a dumb ranking system made by people who would have unanimously said deron Williams would have been a better pickup than Carmelo for the Knicks.

    4. GHenman

      I’m worried about K-Mart. Knicks doctors would have diagnosed Kevin Ware with an ankle sprain and called him day to day.

    5. Gideon Zaga

      Hahaha reminds me of when D’antoni asked that Melo be traded for Deron Williams, what a dumb fuck.

    6. thenamestsam

      er:
      Saw the Espn nbarank . What a joke with Melo at 9. He has had a better season than Kobe, wade and Westbrook. He’s right up there with CP3 and KD this year

      People get way too caught up in looking at the order when there are miniscule differences between the actual ratings. Look at the scores the players received. Top 10:

      Lebron 10.0
      Durant 9.86
      Paul 9.48
      Kobe 9.1
      Westbrook 8.98
      Wade 8.84
      Parker 8.79
      Harden 8.78
      Melo 8.69
      Duncan 8.46

      There’s essentially no difference between receiving an average rating from 111 people of 8.78 and 8.69, especially given the difficulties of saying who’s “better” between two basketball players when they play different positions, styles, etc. I think the right way to look at the list is in terms of groups of players. The voters seem to think the top-tier is Bron and KD, and despite Melo’s recent incandescence it’s hard to quibble with that. Then Chris Paul right below that, then a group that contains all the guys from Kobe to Melo. And I think that’s a pretty fair ranking for Melo. In a group with guys like Harden, Westbrook, Parker, Wade, Kobe seems basically appropriate. I’d put him more at the front of the group, but we should keep in mind that the voting was probably done at least a week ago, maybe 2 or 3.

      My two big quibbles with the list are first having Chris Paul as clearly the 3rd best player in the league. He may be that, but I don’t think he has the separation from the pack that the scores suggest. I look at that Clippers roster and think low 50s in wins is a bit of a disappointment. Second, Kobe should obviously be ranked lower. He’s been tragic on defense and the undisputed leader of the league’s most disappointing team. To me he’s clearly a notch below the Melo, Wade, Parker etc. group.

    7. johnno

      thenamestsam: My two big quibbles with the list are first having Chris Paul as clearly the 3rd best player in the league.

      I couldn’t agree more with you on this point. He has a reputation as a great defender but I watched the Olympics and, when he and Deron Williams were on the court together, they couldn’t stop ANYONE on the perimeter. I am biased, but I think that LeBron is the only player in the league who is clearly better than Melo at this point. Durant and Paul might be better overall, but the gap in the ratings between them and Melo is absurd.

    8. lavor postell

      johnno: I couldn’t agree more with you on this point.He has a reputation as a great defender but I watched the Olympics and, when he and Deron Williams were on the court together, they couldn’t stop ANYONE on the perimeter. I am biased, but I think that LeBron is the only player in the league who is clearly better than Melo at this point.Durant and Paul might be better overall, but the gap in the ratings between them and Melo is absurd.

      I agree with this wholeheartedly. Again Paul hijacks his team’s offense in order to get his more than any other player on the list. Yes the Clippers don’t exactly have the best halfcourt talent in the world, but it might help if Paul could you know trust his teammates in the fourth quarter, rather than every possession being a 24 second dribbling extravaganza. It does help that Paul is a ridiculously efficient shooter, but this is simply not a winning strategy come playoff time against a prepared and organized defense.

      I don’t think Durant is unquestionably the second best player in the league. Also how the fuck are Wade and Kobe ranked ahead of Melo, Harden, Duncan, Parker or Westbrook this season? Kobe is really doing some tremendous things offensively, but his defense has been an absolute travesty this season. Wade is still a great player, but really hasn’t been at a top-10 level this season, though it’s possible he can elevate his game to that for the playoffs.

    9. Keniman Shumpwalker

      lavor postell: I agree with this wholeheartedly.Again Paul hijacks his team’s offense in order to get his more than any other player on the list.Yes the Clippers don’t exactly have the best halfcourt talent in the world, but it might help if Paul could you know trust his teammates in the fourth quarter, rather than every possession being a 24 second dribbling extravaganza.It does help that Paul is a ridiculously efficient shooter, but this is simply not a winning strategy come playoff time against a prepared and organized defense.

      I don’t think Durant is unquestionably the second best player in the league.Also how the fuck are Wade and Kobe ranked ahead of Melo, Harden, Duncan, Parker or Westbrook this season?Kobe is really doing some tremendous things offensively, but his defense has been an absolute travesty this season.Wade is still a great player, but really hasn’t been at a top-10 level this season, though it’s possible he can elevate his game to that for the playoffs.

      Only one word needs to be used to explain these rankings and the negative perception of all things Knicks by the national media…NARRATIVE. CP3 & KD top the list of media darlings who get a free pass on their respective shortcomings because the media slobs them so much. Now, keep in mind that I’m not saying that Melo should be ranked ahead of those two guys (or on par with them, for that matter) but I do think the gap is much narrower than it is perceived to be.

    10. Hubert Davis

      mcliff05:
      At this point the streak might actually be hurting more than helping.We have the Atlantic wrapped up and a 2.5 game lead over Indiana.All of our big men are banged up, so why not basically forfeit v. Chicago and bench melo, jr and chandler?I understand wanted to send a message to the Bulls after those first three horror shows, but its all about getting healthy right now.

      I sort of agree. I’ve been banging the burnout drum for a while now, mostly because I remember how quickly our 18-6 finish to last season evaporated once the playoffs started.

      The placement of the Indiana game is very unfortunate, though. You can’t assume we will beat them. If we tank the Bulls game and lose to the Pacers, we have a 1 game lead with two to play and they own the tiebreaker. If we tank the Bulls game, lose to a frisky Cleveland team, and then lose to the Pacers, we’re the 3 seed.

      So we kind of have to go through with it. The only real opportunity to give everyone rest is the Bobcats game, which frankly we shouldn’t even make the flight to. But we don’t really have enough healthy bodies to pull what San Antonio did.

      Here’s what I would personally do for this 4 game in 5 night stretch:

      at Chicago – keep Chandler rested
      at Cleveland – give Kidd a night off
      vs Indiana – play everyone
      at Charlotte – (assuming we beat Indiana) leave Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler, and Jason Kidd in NY
      vs Atlanta – give JR a night off

    11. DRed

      You people are nuts if you think Melo is the ninth best player in the league. He’s obviously playing like a superstar right now, but he’s had long stretches this season where he wasn’t

    12. Hubert Davis

      Juany8: It’s a dumb ranking system made by people who would have unanimously said deron Williams would have been a better pickup than Carmelo for the Knicks.

      Speaking of which, 17 is still too high for Deron Williams.

    13. lavor postell

      DRed:
      You people are nuts if you think Melo is the ninth best player in the league. He’s obviously playing like a superstar right now, but he’s had long stretches this season where he wasn’t

      Hahaha. I’d say Melo’s been a top-5 player in the league this season easy. Just talking about this season. Who are the 8 players in the league who you think have been unequivocally better?

    14. er

      DRed: You people are nuts if you think Melo is the ninth best player in the league. He’s obviously playing like a superstar right now, but he’s had long stretches this season where he wasn’t

      i disagree, the only stretch i remember was with the bum knee

    15. er

      On another note, if you look at the eastern standings the Atlantic has 5 of the top ten spots. We are in the toughest division by far in the east. Think about the fact that the heat get to play the Wiz and bobcats and magic 12 games and the second best team is ATL?!?! eww

    16. DRed

      lavor postell: Hahaha.I’d say Melo’s been a top-5 player in the league this season easy.Just talking about this season.Who are the 8 players in the league who you think have been unequivocally better?

      The 9 other guys on that top 10 list have been uneqivocally better, and that’s coming from a dyed in the wool Kobe hater. Did january-March not happen where you are? Top 5 players don’t have 3 month stretches of mediocre basketball.

    17. Juany8

      DRed:
      You people are nuts if you think Melo is the ninth best player in the league. He’s obviously playing like a superstar right now, but he’s had long stretches this season where he wasn’t

      Correction: right now and earlier in the season he was playing like a top 3 player, only really comparable to Durant and Lebron in terms of impact. So with his bad stretches I don’t think it’s fair to call him the third best player in the league, but you have to pretend defense doesn’t exist to rank guys like harden, Kobe, and Chris Paul are significantly better than Melo. And compared to those guys Melo might as well be Scotty pippen on D

    18. Juany8

      DRed: The 9 other guys on that top 10 list have been uneqivocally better, and that’s coming from a dyed in the wool Kobe hater. Did january-March not happen where you are? Top 5 players don’t have 3 month stretches of mediocre basketball.

      So if Melo had just sat out instead of playing through pain he would have been more valuable because his average stats would be better. That’s some brilliant logic right there.

    19. IronBars

      DRed: The 9 other guys on that top 10 list have been uneqivocally better, and that’s coming from a dyed in the wool Kobe hater. Did january-March not happen where you are? Top 5 players don’t have 3 month stretches of mediocre basketball.

      Not going to debate most of those players because there simply isn’t enough time in the day for that. I just have to ask. Do you really believe Kobe has been unequivocally better than Melo this year? I can’t imagine Kobe’s biggest fans saying something so insane.

    20. er

      DRed: The 9 other guys on that top 10 list have been uneqivocally better, and that’s coming from a dyed in the wool Kobe hater. Did january-March not happen where you are? Top 5 players don’t have 3 month stretches of mediocre basketball.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2013/

      melos monthy splits kindly highlight the 3 bad months

      Split Value G GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
      November 15 15 530 136 290 33 75 86 109 31 105 31 11 8 45 48 391 .469 .440 .789 35.4 26.1 7.0 2.1
      December 9 9 341 99 207 29 68 66 75 9 43 15 13 6 17 28 293 .478 .426 .880 37.9 32.6 4.8 1.7
      January 12 12 492 128 305 37 95 71 85 18 75 50 7 6 28 36 364 .420 .389 .835 41.0 30.3 6.3 4.2
      February 11 11 427 97 239 24 80 75 92 15 76 37 5 3 38 34 293 .406 .300 .815 38.8 26.6 6.9 3.4
      March 12 12 400 95 236 13 51 81 96 31 82 21 12 5 35 38 284 .403 .255 .844 33.3 23.7 6.8 1.8
      April 5 5 186 80 131 17 29 26 31 16 41 12 1 3 6 14 203 .611 .586 .839 37.2 40.6 8.2 2.4

    21. lavor postell

      DRed: The 9 other guys on that top 10 list have been uneqivocally better, and that’s coming from a dyed in the wool Kobe hater. Did january-March not happen where you are? Top 5 players don’t have 3 month stretches of mediocre basketball.

      Hahaha and I’ve been praising Kobe for his play this year and there is not a chance he’s been more valuable or better than Melo. If defense is still part of the game than there isn’t a chance Kobe’s a top-10 player forget top-5.

      Wade in his prime was certainly better, but while he is still great is not capable of carrying a team through a regular season with a lot left in the tank. That’s not a criticism, it’s just a fact. He’s older.

      Westbrook and Harden I can see those arguments, but right now I’d rank them just below Melo, but certainly likely to surpass him if they continue to improve like they have.

      Paul and Durant might be better, but I don’t perceive it to be the margin most others do. Just my opinions.

    22. thenamestsam

      IronBars: Not going to debate most of those players because there simply isn’t enough time in the day for that. I just have to ask. Do you really believe Kobe has been unequivocally better than Melo this year? I can’t imagine Kobe’s biggest fans saying something so insane.

      Lol. I’m 100% in agreement with you about Kobe vs. Melo but I do have to ask you: Have you been exposed to Kobe’s biggest fans? There is very real section of Laker-dom who still think its sacrilege to suggest that anyone is better than Kobe.

    23. lavor postell

      thenamestsam: Lol. I’m 100% in agreement with you about Kobe vs. Melo but I do have to ask you: Have you been exposed to Kobe’s biggest fans? There is very real section of Laker-dom who still think its sacrilege to suggest that anyone is better than Kobe.

      Yeah remember it’s all about rings. Not the context those championships were won in or any basis on his current form.

    24. danvt

      There’s just something of the underdog in Carmelo. The run through the NCAA tournament as a freshman set the tone. He didn’t have the sons of former NBA players with him. He led that team.

      Since then he has been much maligned as a pro. For not ascending to the championship level, for being more of a scorer and less of a facilitator, etc. He may be flawed but he’s tough and he’s improving.

      The narrative about him will change if he wins a championship. I’m starting to believe it’s possible, which is all a fan can really ask for.

    25. er

      lavor postell: Yeah remember it’s all about rings. Not the context those championships were won in or any basis on his current form.

      lol so true…like shaq wasnt the most dominant force in the lig(hubie brown voice)

    26. lavor postell

      http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/57716/a-world-without-gallo-can-george-karls-nuggets-survive

      “And in the short-term, Anthony Randolph will get a chance to fill some of the power-forward minutes, as well. In news that will shock just about anyone who has watched Randolph play, Karl calls the perpetual project Denver’s “best big pick-and-roll defender,” at least when it comes to using his speed to attack ball handlers, trap them, and force more of those delicious opponent turnovers. “With Anthony and Corey Brewer, the way they run around, sometimes it doesn’t really make any sense,” Karl says. “But sometimes it kicks ass.”

      After seeing what Woodson has done with JR, I’d really wish he had gotten a chance to work with Randolph. That beard really has some magical powers.

    27. IronBars

      thenamestsam: Lol. I’m 100% in agreement with you about Kobe vs. Melo but I do have to ask you: Have you been exposed to Kobe’s biggest fans? There is very real section of Laker-dom who still think its sacrilege to suggest that anyone is better than Kobe.

      Good point. All the jaded NBA fans in New York gravitated towards Kobe during his dominance, but those same people are Lebron fans now. Hard to keep up.

      Can’t say I’ve met many real Laker/Kobe fans.

    28. flossy

      lavor postell:
      http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/57716/a-world-without-gallo-can-george-karls-nuggets-survive

      “And in the short-term, Anthony Randolph will get a chance to fill some of the power-forward minutes, as well. In news that will shock just about anyone who has watched Randolph play, Karl calls the perpetual project Denver’s “best big pick-and-roll defender,” at least when it comes to using his speed to attack ball handlers, trap them, and force more of those delicious opponent turnovers. “With Anthony and Corey Brewer, the way they run around, sometimes it doesn’t really make any sense,” Karl says. “But sometimes it kicks ass.”

      After seeing what Woodson has done with JR, I’d really wish he had gotten a chance to work with Randolph.That beard really has some magical powers.

      Hah! Oh, I miss Anthony “4 Loko” Randolph. What a gangly dunce. I’m not sure Woodson would have helped. He did manage to get through to JR Smith, but he never did manage to convince Josh Smith to get his shit together, so I wouldn’t call him the knucklehead whisperer or anything.

    29. Juany8

      lavor postell: Yeah remember it’s all about rings.Not the context those championships were won in or any basis on his current form.

      In fairness to Kobe, you don’t win 5 championships and make 7 finals with totally different teammates by accident. It’s not like shaq ever did anything without a superstar wing player (penny hard away, wade, and Kobe). Shaq and gasol have become a bit overrated, I think Kobe was equally responsible for all those championships.

      Look the only guys that have won championships in the last 30 years without at least one other star on the team are Tim Duncan and Hakeem Olajuwon. They are also 2 of the best defensive players of all time, there is not a single player currently in the NBA that could match their defensive impact in their primes. In fact, id take Kareem, Duncan, and Hakeem as the top 3 players ever. A player that you can build both a great offense and defense around is a once in a generation thing.

    30. danvt

      thenamestsam: Lebron 10.0
      Durant 9.86
      Paul 9.48
      Kobe 9.1
      Westbrook 8.98
      Wade 8.84
      Parker 8.79
      Harden 8.78
      Melo 8.69
      Duncan 8.46

      That being said, this is an awesome ranking for Melo, and having someone like that has been amazing for NYK. Notice how all those players are on winning teams.

    31. flossy

      Juany8: but you have to pretend defense doesn’t exist to rank guys like harden, Kobe, and Chris Paul are significantly better than Melo.

      You have to pretend defense doesn’t exist to know that Chris Paul is better than Melo? Are you serious?

    32. Juany8

      By the way I’d like to clarify that shaq was an absolute monster on offense, just totally ridiculous to watch. But he was never a particularly good defender, he’d be outright exposed in today’s pick and roll league. And as good as he was offensively, he became a liability late in games because the opponent could just foul him. So sure he was amazing, but so was Kobe, which is why they three peated together.

    33. Juany8

      flossy: You have to pretend defense doesn’t exist to know that Chris Paul is better than Melo?Are you serious?

      No, to think that there is some vast difference between them you have I ignore defense. Notice the “significant” qualifier. Chris Paul just doesn’t do much for a defense, like pretty much every other point guard. Chris Paul is the better player, but they’ve had basically the same career up to this point in the NBA, and Chris Paul’s best team ever only managed to match up with Melo’s. So for one to get constant MVP love and the other consistent “most overrated” hate is absurd. You’re not winning a ring if they’re your clear cut best players.

    34. Brian Cronin

      I’m still mad about how poorly D’Antoni handled Randolph. “Oh, you’re too stupid to realize that you need to be a post player? Okay, then instead of teaching you to do that, I guess I’ll just never play you so we just get nothing out of you.”

    35. flossy

      Juany8: No, to think that there is some vast difference between them you have I ignore defense. Notice the “significant” qualifier. Chris Paul just doesn’t do much for a defense, like pretty much every other point guard. Chris Paul is the better player, but they’ve had basically the same career up to this point in the NBA, and Chris Paul’s best team ever only managed to match up with Melo’s. So for one to get constant MVP love and the other consistent “most overrated” hate is absurd. You’re not winning a ring if they’re your clear cut best players.

      Well, Chris Paul is a significantly better offensive player that Melo. And if the argument in Melo’s favor overall is his defense, that’s going to be a short conversation for sure.

    36. lavor postell

      Juany8: In fairness to Kobe, you don’t win 5 championships and make 7 finals with totally different teammates by accident. It’s not like shaq ever did anything without a superstar wing player (penny hard away, wade, and Kobe). Shaq and gasol have become a bit overrated, I think Kobe was equally responsible for all those championships.

      Look the only guys that have won championships in the last 30 years without at least one other star on the team are Tim Duncan and Hakeem Olajuwon. They are also 2 of the best defensive players of all time, there is not a single player currently in the NBA that could match their defensive impact in their primes. In fact, id take Kareem,Duncan, and Hakeem as the top 3 players ever. A player that you can build both a great offense and defense around is a once in a generation thing.

      Definitely not trying to diminish Kobe at all and I agree with you that Shaq never really dominated defensively like he could have, though I think it’s fair to say Shaq didn’t exactly work as he could have at a lot of point during his time in Los Angeles. Kobe has won 1 MVP in his career and has never had a season like Lebron’s had for the past 6 seasons. I think it’s safe to say the championships argument in any debate over who the greater player is between those 2 should not hold any weight.

    37. mcliff05

      Hubert Davis: I sort of agree. I’ve been banging the burnout drum for a while now, mostly because I remember how quickly our 18-6 finish to last season evaporated once the playoffs started.The placement of the Indiana game is very unfortunate, though. You can’t assume we will beat them. If we tank the Bulls game and lose to the Pacers, we have a 1 game lead with two to play and they own the tiebreaker. If we tank the Bulls game, lose to a frisky Cleveland team, and then lose to the Pacers, we’re the 3 seed.So we kind of have to go through with it. The only real opportunity to give everyone rest is the Bobcats game, which frankly we shouldn’t even make the flight to. But we don’t really have enough healthy bodies to pull what San Antonio did.

      If Indiana wins out (including the last head to head) then the Knicks need to go 2-3 to keep the 2 seed with games against Cleveland, Charlotte and Atlanta. If you play Chicago hard on Thursday, you are not only risking injury against a very physical team but you also will be tired vs Cleveland on the back to back. If you rest players against the Bulls your making Clevelend a much more winnable game.

      I do not agree with people who say we should fall to the 3 to line up against Atlanta. Atlanta is .5 game behind Chicago and has a slightly easier schedule (@PHI, MIL, TOR, @NY) vs (NY, TOR, @MIA, @ORL, @WAS) respectively.

      And Melo was ranked too low, this season I would’ve had him at 4. But the more ammo for him in the playoffs the better. I like my Knicks angry and motivated.

    38. d-mar

      Here’s a playoff scenario we can all dream about:

      Knicks get 2 seed, Hawks drop to 7 seed. Knicks win series 4-1

      Pacers and Celtics beat the crap out of each other and one team prevails in a grueling 7 game series

      Bulls beat the Nets, Miami beats the Bucks

      Derrick Rose returns for round 2, and the Bulls extend Miami to 6 or 7 games, with tons of physical play and bumps and bruises for both teams.

      Knicks advance to conference finals in a 6 game series with Boston or Indy

      Miiami vs. NY, Eastern Conference Finals, with Miami beat up from the Chicago series.

      We can dream, can’t we?

    39. Hubert Davis

      lavor postell:
      http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/57716/a-world-without-gallo-can-george-karls-nuggets-survive

      “And in the short-term, Anthony Randolph will get a chance to fill some of the power-forward minutes, as well. In news that will shock just about anyone who has watched Randolph play, Karl calls the perpetual project Denver’s “best big pick-and-roll defender,” at least when it comes to using his speed to attack ball handlers, trap them, and force more of those delicious opponent turnovers. “With Anthony and Corey Brewer, the way they run around, sometimes it doesn’t really make any sense,” Karl says. “But sometimes it kicks ass.”

      After seeing what Woodson has done with JR, I’d really wish he had gotten a chance to work with Randolph.That beard really has some magical powers.

      I’m sorry, it’s just wrong that Denver has Anthony Randolph and Corey Brewer. They even got the guys in the Melo trade that didn’t go to them. Bastards.

      Sometimes I imagine if we had just kept Wilson Chandler instead of Landry Fields…sigh.

    40. Hubert Davis

      Juany8: .

      Look the only guys that have won championships in the last 30 years without at least one other star on the team are Tim Duncan and Hakeem Olajuwon. They are also 2 of the best defensive players of all time, there is not a single player currently in the NBA that could match their defensive impact in their primes. In fact, id take Kareem,Duncan, and Hakeem as the top 3 players ever. A player that you can build both a great offense and defense around is a once in a generation thing.

      I’m curious if you overlooked Dirk accidentally or if you are counting Chandler as his second star.

    41. johnno

      DRed: Did january-March not happen where you are? Top 5 players don’t have 3 month stretches of mediocre basketball.

      I guess that we should ignore the fact that, for the last 6 weeks, Kobe and Harden have shot 42 and 39% from the field respectively and that, for the first three months of the season Westbrook was below 41%. But Melo just scores a lot because he takes a lot of shots! He’s not efficient! No? If you look at the top 40 guys in the league in terms of how many shots they’ve taken this year, only 8 have a higher points per shot average and only 6 of the top 20 have a higher adjusted field goal percentage. I don’t think much of the PER rating but even that has him in the top 6. In other words, he is one of the MOST efficient high usage guys in the game. Here’s another way of looking at it — If Melo’s not top 10 in the league, Mike Woodson is the greatest coach of all time. His best player is no better than the 15th or 20th best player in the league, yet his team is competing on an equal basis with the best teams with two guys in the top 10 — they have an 8-4 record against teams with 50 or more wins.

    42. stratomatic

      Personally, I think it couldn’t be more obvious that the rank is James, Durant, and CP3 as #1, #2, and #3. After that it gets murkier because player stats are partly the result of their teammates. If Wade and Bosh weren’t playing with James, they would have bigger roles and have more more impressive numbers.

      I don’t there’s any way I would even have Melo in the top 10.

      He’s the most versatile scorer in the league and among the best at creating his own shot, but he’s not an elite shooter and scoring is pretty much the only thing he’s above average at. He’s pretty much average at everything else and because he works so hard trying to create shots and score points, he turns the ball over a lot. He also loses focus at times and doesn’t defend at all, walks up the court etc..

    43. mcliff05

      stratomatic: Personally, I think it couldn’t be more obvious that the rank is James, Durant, and CP3 as #1, #2, and #3. After that it gets murkier because player stats are partly the result of their teammates. If Wade and Bosh weren’t playing with James, they would have bigger roles and have more more impressive numbers. I don’t there’s any way I would even have Melo in the top 10. He’s the most versatile scorer in the league and among the best at creating his own shot, but he’s not an elite shooter and scoring is pretty much the only thing he’s above average at. He’s pretty much average at everything else and because he works so hard trying to create shots and score points, he turns the ball over a lot. He also loses focus at times and doesn’t defend at all, walks up the court etc..

      Look at the league-wide turnover percentages for high utility players and get back to me. Spoiler alert: He does not turn the ball over alot. What does Harden do thats ‘above average’ other than scoring? I swear people fall all over themselves to find reasons to hate on Melo.

    44. er

      mcliff05: *high usage. Ok I think Im done correcting myself haha

      that guy doesnt watch the knicks….KD is a turnover machine leads the league i think

    45. stratomatic

      Brian Cronin:
      I’m still mad about how poorly D’Antoni handled Randolph. “Oh, you’re too stupid to realize that you need to be a post player? Okay, then instead of teaching you to do that, I guess I’ll just never play you so we just get nothing out of you.”

      I felt the same exact way until Adelman and Karl glued him to the bench also.

      This is the deal with Randolph.

      He’s immensely talented, but he has a very low basketball IQ. It’s hard for a coach to trust that he will run both the offensive and defensive sets the way he’s supposed to, make defensive switches, not do an unimaginably stupid thing at a critical point in the game etc.. From I’ve been told, he also does NOT work hard in practice. He has an attitude of entitlement. Coaches don’t like to move players up the pecking order unless they prove they deserve it because it messes with the team chemistry.

    46. johnno

      stratomatic: he turns the ball over a lot

      Want to see the list of guys who rank 2,3,4 and 5 in the league in turnovers per game? Harden, Kobe, Durant and Westbrook. LeBron at 13 and Wade at 20 also turn the ball over more than Melo.

    47. Hubert Davis

      stratomatic:

      He’s the most versatile scorer in the league and among the best at creating his own shot, but he’s not an elite shooter and scoring is pretty much the only thing he’s above average at.He’s pretty much average at everything else and because he works so hard trying to create shots and score points, he turns the ball over a lot.He also loses focus at times and doesn’t defend at all, walks up the court etc..

      The problem with this line of thinking is you have to name 7 players who are in his class offensively and play better defense. Automatically you have lost Kobe & Harden, whose defense makes Melo look like LeBron. So you’ve taken Melo, Kobe, and Harden out of your top 10 already. I would love to see this list you have in mind.

    48. stratomatic

      mcliff05: Look at the league-wide turnover percentages for high utility players and get back to me.Spoiler alert: He does not turn the ball over alot.What does Harden do thats ‘above average’ other than scoring?I swear people fall all over themselves to find reasons to hate on Melo.

      The problem with this logic is that it doesn’t account for assists.

      A player should only have a very high ball handling and usage rate if he’s a very efficient scorer (generating positive value from his scoring) or generates more than enough assists to offset his TOs.

      If you are scoring a ton at average efficiency, turning the ball over at an average rate, but not getting many assists relative to the amount of time you handle the ball, the net is NOT positive.

      I agree, that for the amount of time Melo handles the ball trying to score, it’s inevitable he will have more TOs, but without 5-6 assists also, he is NOT generating the value you think. The standard usage stat is FLAWED in this regard.

    49. er

      stratomatic: The problem with this logic is that it doesn’t account for assists. A player should only have a very high ball handling and usage rate if he’s a very efficient scorer (generating positive value from his scoring) or generates more than enough assists to offset his TOs. If you are scoring a ton at average efficiency, turning the ball over at an average rate, but not getting many assists relative to the amount of time you handle the ball, the net is NOT positive. I agree, that for the amount of time Melo handles the ball trying to score, it’s inevitable he will have more TOs, but without 5-6 assists also, he is NOT generating the value you think. The standard usage stat is FLAWED in this regard.

      how do you get this? Melo probably leads the league in hockey assists this year out of double teams.

    50. stratomatic

      Hubert Davis: The problem with this line of thinking is you have to name 7 players who are in his class offensively and play better defense.Automatically you have lost Kobe & Harden, whose defense makes Melo look like LeBron.So you’ve taken Melo, Kobe, and Harden out of your top 10 already.I would love to see this list you have in mind.

      I have my spreadsheets at home, but the list is quite large.

      On Melo’s great nights, he’s an absolutely super elite player (as all the great shot creators are when they get hot). But the NET of it all is how you measure value. On that basis, his down periods are quite a bit below average. People don’t realize how many games he’s costing. When he’s 5-17 people don’t think in terms of he cost us 7-8 points tonight.

      They only remember the games he singlehandedly wins doing things few players in the NBA can even dream about.

      And, yes, I do have both Kobe and Harden over him and I’m definitely not a Kobe fan. I think he’s overrated also. Everyone on that ESPN list and others are above him.

    51. stratomatic

      er: how do you get this? Melo probably leads the league in hockey assists this year out of double teams.

      LMAO.

      There is a direct relationship between assists and hockey assists.

      Yes, Melo gets some hockey assists, but so do all the other high usage scorers like James, Durant, Bryant, Wade etc… The thing is there is more value in the actual assists than the hockey assist and those other players are getting more of them.

    52. Frank

      stratomatic: A player should only have a very high ball handling and usage rate if he’s a very efficient scorer (generating positive value from his scoring) or generates more than enough assists to offset his TOs.

      look, we all know that assists is a terrible measure of whether someone creates better shots for others – so to say he’s not a net positive based on his low assists is just… well… not right. My guess since there are no available stats on this, is that Melo is top 5 in the league total assists + hockey assists.

      The proof is in how well the TEAM plays when he’s on the floor.

      From a TEAM standpoint, the offense is a net +8 when Melo is on the floor. For those who think that Tyson is the reason the offense is so great, the offense is even better when Melo is ON the floor and Tyson is OFF (1.14 PPP —> 1.16 PPP).

      And as great as Lebron is, Melo’s offensive +/- is better than Lebron’s (~+7).

      Now there’s no doubt that Lebron’s a better defensive player– but of course we’re just talking about offense here.

      by the way, why do we even talk about PPS? That just favors guys that go to the free throw line a lot and doesn’t penalize guys for turning the ball over. PPP is so superior.

    53. Keniman Shumpwalker

      I wonder if someone here can cull the number of shots Melo has missed at the rim and rebounded himself from Synergy or some such. I would love to see what his efficiency numbers would look like if we factored those in and adjusted them per Jon Abbey (a missed shot which is rebounded by the shooter and put back in counts as 1-1 with no rebounds). It’d be really interesting to see.

    54. nicos

      stratomatic: The problem with this logic is that it doesn’t account for assists.

      A player should only have a very high ball handling and usage rate if he’s a very efficient scorer (generating positive value from his scoring) or generates more than enough assists to offset his TOs.

      If you are scoring a ton at average efficiency, turning the ball over at an average rate, but not getting many assists relative to the amount of time you handle the ball, the net is NOT positive.

      I agree, that for the amount of time Melo handles the ball trying to score, it’s inevitable he will have more TOs, but without 5-6 assists also, he is NOT generating the value you think.The standard usage stat is FLAWED in this regard.

      But Melo is both solidly above average in TS% (.563 vs. .535) and in turnover % (9.02 vs. 11.31) so you’re getting a whopping 35% of your possessions converted at a well above average rate. And he draws as many double teams as anyone in the league. A huge chunk of the 3rd best offense in the league is running through him so it’s pretty hard to say he’s overrated. I think you could put him anywhere from say 5 to 15 and be able to make a reasonable case so 9 seems pretty fair to me.

    55. Frank

      stratomatic: There is a direct relationship between assists and hockey assists.

      and you know this because…?

      geez i feel like THCJ here but that is total conjecture. You have zero idea what the relationship is because that data has never been even remotely available to the general public.

    56. stratomatic

      Listen guys, I knows this is a Knicks blog and we are all diehard Knicks fans. I’ve been a fan since Frazier, Reed, Bradley, Monroe etc… It’s been a long time since we’ve won and we are all craving victory. But if you want to discuss players objectively, you have to learn to set aside your fandom. There is no freaking way Melo is anywhere near as good at the hype he gets because he scores a lot of points and create a lot of shots for himself. He’s a solid player that has some incredible stretches. He had them for Denver also. But he’s not an elite player or even a top 10 player. The Knicks are doing well because they are very deep and are getting some good value out of Kidd, Prigs, Martin and a few other role players earlier in the season. Without that, they’d be a .500 club.

    57. Frank

      stratomatic: The thing is there is more value in the actual assists than the hockey assist and those other players are getting more of them.

      and i don’t really understand where you get this either… an assist (whether an assist or hockey assist) is a pass that leads to a made basket — which means that there was a made basket. they’re exactly the same, just with a teammate in between. If Melo causes the double team, makes the correct pass, then Kidd makes the correct next pass, how is Melo not just as responsible for the made shot as Kidd is? In fact I’d say it’s easier to make the Kidd pass than the Melo pass because Melo is being double-teamed, and has to be good enough to warrant the double-team in the first place.

    58. er

      stratomatic: Listen guys, I knows this is a Knicks blog and we are all diehard Knicks fans. I’ve been a fan since Frazier, Reed, Bradley, Monroe etc… It’s been a long time since we’ve won and we are all craving victory. But if you want to discuss players objectively, you have to learn to set aside your fandom. There is no freaking way Melo is anywhere near as good at the hype he gets because he scores a lot of points and create a lot of shots for himself. He’s a solid player that has some incredible stretches. He had them for Denver also. But he’s not an elite player or even a top 10 player. The Knicks are doing well because they are very deep and are getting some good value out of Kidd, Prigs, Martin and a few other role players earlier in the season. Without that, they’d be a .500 club.

      lol this is funny dude. Just for shits and giggles though can you name me any non top 10 player who has incredible stretches like this

    59. Frank

      stratomatic: But if you want to discuss players objectively, you have to learn to set aside your fandom. There is no freaking way Melo is anywhere near as good at the hype he gets because he scores a lot of points and create a lot of shots for himself.

      lol now we’ve moved onto the “I’m right because I’m right” argument.

      I’m not sure Melo is a “top 10″ player either, but if he’s not, he’s not far off it. Who are your 10 that are better?

    60. nicos

      Frank: look,
      by the way, why do we even talk about PPS?That just favors guys that go to the free throw line a lot and doesn’t penalize guys for turning the ball over.PPP is so superior.

      I largely agree but you have to make allowances for guys like Paul and LBJ who’ll rack up turnovers while running the offense- their assist rate more than makes up for the extra turnovers so comparing their ppp to someone like Novak or to a lesser extent Melo can be pretty misleading as well.

    61. stratomatic

      Frank: and you know this because…?

      geez i feel like THCJ here but that is total conjecture.You have zero idea what the relationship is because that data has never been even remotely available to the general public.

      Let me ask you, do you think James, Durant, Bryant, Wade and every other player that often gets double teamed doesn’t also get hockey assists?

      Given that those guys use those opportunities to get MORE actual REAL assists, I would venture to say it’s close to certain they get as many or more hockey assists than Melo also.

      THere was a detailed article on the Heat a couple of months ago where they discussed hockey assists and the Heat. It’s something they focus on. James is off the charts (as he is with assists for his position). So yes, I know because there are stats on the subject and some teams keep them.

    62. Frank

      hmm. Ian Begley just tweeted that the Knicks are now looking for a FA big man. I guess bye-bye James White.

    63. er

      stratomatic: Let me ask you, do you think James, Durant, Bryant, Wade and every other player that often gets double teamed doesn’t also get hockey assists? Given that those guys use those opportunities to get MORE actual REAL assists, I would venture to say it’s close to certain they get as many or more hockey assists than Melo also.THere was a detailed article on the Heat a couple of months ago where they discussed hockey assists and the Heat. It’s something they focus on. James is off the charts (as he is with assists for his position). So yes, I know because there are stats on the subject and some teams keep them.

      I would venture to say that non of these guy save for lebron have as many hockey assists as melo. Melo is basically a post player who can shoot. He establishes position on the block, waits for double then passes. Those other guys are more or less off the dribble players who suck in the doubles that way then pass. These passes though are usually to shooters in the corner which creates the assist

    64. BigBlueAL

      Knicks have already announced that Chandler and KMart are out tomorrow and Camby is doubtful. So I guess Cope is the starting C.

    65. Frank

      Frank: So yes, I know because there are stats on the subject and some teams keep them.

      And you have seen these stats? Or did you just read about someone talking about them nonspecifically?

      Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree on this. No doubt that Melo’s 8.6 Assist rate looks bad. My assumption is that if you add up his hockey+regular assist rate then his overall assisting probably looks pretty good. And agree that LBJ makes some amazing passes that skip the whole hockey assist thing.

    66. stratomatic

      Frank: and i don’t really understand where you get this either… an assist (whether an assist or hockey assist) is a pass that leads to a made basket — which means that there was a made basket. they’re exactly the same, just with a teammate in between. If Melo causes the double team, makes the correct pass, then Kidd makes the correct next pass, how is Melo not just as responsible for the made shot as Kidd is? In fact I’d say it’s easier to make the Kidd pass than the Melo pass because Melo is being double-teamed, and has to be good enough to warrant the double-team in the first place.

      1) Since there IS a correlation between assists and hockey assists (passing skills), the value of hockey assists to some extent is already captured in various regression models that have calculated the value of regular assists.

      2) I would argue it’s way harder to do what Chris Paul does than it is to simply pass when the double team comes and for someone else to then make the assist pass. So yes, technically you can argue that the value of assists is a variable. For example, a Rubio assist is often VERY valuable because it leads to a very easy shot very often. Other assists lead to jumpers. Hockey assists are low on the overall value scale. It’s the great direct passes and passers that are highly valuable.

    67. johnlocke

      I think we can all acknowledge a couple things: 1) Carmelo is on a ridiculous tear right now that only elite players are capable of going on; 2) For whatever reason – injuries, etc – his career averages are right in line with this season’s averages – the hype is generated by this winning streak and mainly, finally having a winning team in NYC.

      The one thing that stands out is that he’s a much improved three point shooter – he’s managed to both increase his attempts and accuracy at the same time. The fact that he’s a much improved outside shooter with the ability to get red-hot from the outside is what really makes him such a nightmare to defend. This also helps him in avoiding turnovers. He is clearly an elite offensive player.

      On the defensive end, he is a very good defensive player at the PF position, despite all the doubling the Knicks do in the post; and probably average at the SF position.

      Paul and Lebron’s game is more efficient and well-rounded offensively and defensively, Kevin Durant’s is much more efficient with high usage – those guys are in the top-tier of the elite. What Kobe is doing at 35 years of age is just unheard of, since MJ. Melo is in the next tier…whether he’s 5th, or 8th is really not that big of a deal. Let’s just appreciate it, and be happy there is a top 10 player on the Knicks….finally!

    68. stratomatic

      Frank: And you have seen these stats? Or did you just read about someone talking about them nonspecifically?

      Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree on this.No doubt that Melo’s 8.6 Assist rate looks bad. My assumption is that if you add up his hockey+regular assist rate then his overall assisting probably looks pretty good.And agree that LBJ makes some amazing passes that skip the whole hockey assist thing.

      I did not see the actual team data, but I saw an analysis of it that put it into perspective relative to other players and teams.

      And yes, I agree hockey assists have value. But they are NOT unique to Melo. So why give him credit for them when there are many other players that get double teamed and get more assists and plenty of hockey assist. The hockey assist (like the Kobe assist lmao) is a rationalization fans use to try to make their favorite players look better than their actual stats.

    69. Count de Pennies

      Frank:
      hmm. Ian Begley just tweeted that the Knicks are now looking for a FA big man.I guess bye-bye James White.

      Who the hell is still available at this late date?

      If Grunwald manages to conjure up a serviceable big man out of thin air, the NBA Executive of the Year award would be insufficient recognition for such a feat. That’d be a magic act worthy of top billing at the swankiest hotel on the Vegas strip.

    70. thenamestsam

      nicos: A huge chunk of the 3rd best offense in the league is running through him so it’s pretty hard to say he’s overrated.

      Frank:

      The proof is in how well the TEAM plays when he’s on the floor.

      From a TEAM standpoint, the offense is a net +8 when Melo is on the floor.For those who think that Tyson is the reason the offense is so great, the offense is even better when Melo is ON the floor and Tyson is OFF (1.14 PPP —> 1.16 PPP).

      And as great as Lebron is, Melo’s offensive +/- is better than Lebron’s (~+7).

      To me these two comments basically get to the bottom line. We’re talking about a top 3 offense in the league. From an eye-test perspective Carmelo is clearly at the heart of that offense. And from a statistical perspective that offense is much better when Carmelo is on the court. How much clearer could it be that the guy is one of the very best offensive players in the league?

      If you want to make the argument that defense is WAY underrated because we can’t measure it and that actually the top 10 players in the league should include more guys who are defensive dynamos (Marc Gasol, Iggy, Duncan) I’m sympathetic to that. I don’t fully agree but it’s something to talk about. But if you’re going to have a list composed of offense first guys (Kobe, Harden, etc.) and say Melo’s not up there, I think you’re crazy. The Knicks offense is significantly better than the Lakers offense. Is it because the Knicks offensive talent surrounding Melo is way above the offensive talent surrounding Kobe? I think that’s a pretty damn hard case to make.

    71. johnlocke

      The hockey assist isn’t unique to Melo. But the ball movement, threes and low turnover offense it creates is more descriptive of the Knicks offense than any other in the league. That is to say, given the Knicks offense and roster of shooters, Melo is the cog at the center of the offense for both his offense and everyone else’s – and the hockey assist is a key variable in that success. Yes, it’s not the same as the direct assist. We saw last night when Shump threw two poor passes to Novak and someone else that messed up the flow, but given the fact that the Knicks have capable passers throughout the team, there’s no reason for Melo to try to be a point forward.

      stratomatic:

      And yes, I agree hockey assists have value.But they are NOT unique to Melo. So why give him credit for them when there are many other players that get double teamed and get more assists and plenty of hockey assist. The hockey assist (like the Kobe assist lmao)is a rationalizationfans use to try to make their favorite players look better than their actual stats.

    72. Frank

      Count de Pennies: Who the hell is still available at this late date?

      If Grunwald manages to conjure up a serviceable big man out of thin air, the NBA Executive of the Year award would be insufficient recognition for such a feat. That’d be a magic act worthy of top billing at the swankiest hotel on the Vegas strip.

      Speaking of- it’ll be interesting to see whether Copeland gets any significant offers this summer. He’s restricted but boy is he showing something. 20 p/36, 59 TS, 42.5 from 3- great on PNR, can post, shoot it from deep, and can even drive it a little. Yes he’s doing this mostly on secondary or even tertiary defenders, but the same thing could have been said about harden. I can see someone floating out an offer bigger than the mini MLE.

    73. er

      johnlocke: given the fact that the Knicks have capable passers throughout the team, there’s no reason for Melo to try to be a point forward.

      thank you………….ppl forget before lin last year melo was avg somthing like 4.5 assists

    74. DRed

      Among guys who average 30+ minutes a night Carmelo is 38th in the league in TS%. Granted, its a crude way of looking at it, but given that his primary skill is scoring, wouldn’t he be higher on that list if he was a top 5 or 10 player?

    75. Zanzibar

      Count de Pennies:
      Who the hell is still available at this late date?

      Felton returns to the Knicks and acquits himself reasonably well. Then Kurt returns and with one blood-and-guts performance propels the Knicks on a 13 game win streak. Camby joins the reunion party. Sensing a theme? Who’s available…wait for it…out of the darko steps…Milicic! It’s fate, mustn’t tempt it. He’s well-rested and hitting his prime years. Hey at least he’s got youth on his side. If you have trouble swallowing this, just hope Felton stays healthy or we may have to seek out the Marbury man.

      “I do not agree with people who say we should fall to the 3 to line up against Atlanta. Atlanta is .5 game behind Chicago and has a slightly easier schedule (@PHI, MIL, TOR, @NY) vs (NY, TOR, @MIA, @ORL, @WAS) respectively.” (McCliff)

      Also I read Boston is the 6th seed if Celtics and Hawks finish with the same record. So Knick fans should be rooting for Boston tonight?

    76. er

      DRed:
      Among guys who average 30+ minutes a night Carmelo is 38th in the league in TS%. Granted, its a crude way of looking at it, but given that his primary skill is scoring, wouldn’t he be higher on that list if he was a top 5 or 10 player?
      Lol…..what’s the rank by usage rate????? This is “crude” as you put it….the guys who shoot 5 shots in 30 mins are in here ya no lol

    77. MJG1789

      Does it really matter whether Melo is tops in the “hockey assist” department? Based on the evidence, Melo destroying other teams appears to be highly correlated with winning. Since Tyson Chandler hasn’t even been playing, and when he has played he’s been awful of late, where did the Atlantic Division Title come from? Ronnie Brewer’s psychic network? Of course basketball is a team game and of course players contribute in varying ways – but to look at this winning streak and come to the conclusion that therefore Melo is NOT an elite player – I mean, you’ve been attending the church of David Berri of the Latter Day Saints too long. “Who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?” The fact that a new scientific method produces counterintuitive results is not an argument against its veracity, as we know from quantum mechanics. But if the new method produces results that are plainly stupid and wrong, then the response shouldn’t be to defend the method harder. It should be to analyze the flaws in the method.

    78. Z-man

      The WoW methodology has been debunked by Juany8 and ruru in nearly every way imaginable, why do we even bother discussing it anymore?

      Sure, it has its hits (like PER and every other advanced metric) but synergy analysis and sites like 82games.com are so far ahead of WP, it isn’t even worth the time bludgeoning it.

    79. Z-man

      Re: Melo, as many have said about LeBron, the only thing that really counts is how he performs in the playoffs. In a few days, the question of whether he is a top-5 player or not will be definitively answered. If he plays deep into the playoffs and plays like he has played on this winning streak, he’s the 2nd best player in the league. If he is just so-so or there one game, gone the next, you have to move him down the list. No excuses this year. Let the games begin!

    80. yellowboy90

      Hakim Warrick is out there. I think Sims is available also. Warrick is not a “big man” but he could fit a need. It sucks that whoever they get won’t really have the time to get acclimated to the team schemes on offense or Defense.

    81. DRed

      johnno: I guess that we should ignore the fact that, for the last 6 weeks, Kobe and Harden have shot 42 and 39% from the field respectively

      The season has gone on for longer then the last six weeks. Over that time, Harden, a SG, has a TS% 4.5% higher than Melo. He’s amuch more efficient scorer

    82. er

      DRed: The season has gone on for longer then the last sixweeks. Over that time, Harden, a SG, has a TS% 4.5% higher than Melo. He’s amuch more efficient scorer

      Isn’t harden shooting like 43% from the field while leading the league in ft attempts?

    83. DRed

      Z-man:
      The WoW methodology has been debunked by Juany8 and ruru in nearly every way imaginable, why do we even bother discussing it anymore?
      Sure, it has its hits (like PER and every other advanced metric) but synergy analysis and sites like 82games.com are so far ahead of WP, it isn’t even worth the time bludgeoning it.

      Juany is the guy who doesn’t think chris paul is significantly better than Melo. . .

    84. BigBlueAL

      For the people here who always downgrade Melo and refuse to give him any respect and have hated him since the day he was traded here, how do you react during these past few games when he has been amazing?? When he keeps making shot after shot do you just sit there emotionless?? Do you actually get pissed when he keeps on scoring?? Do you even watch the games??

      I understand not believing he is a Top 5 or 10 player in the NBA but man the haters here cant let him get praise and adulation even during this amazing stretch. Always pointing out his flaws and the players who are allegedly better than him. Must be miserable being a Knick fan who hates Melo with a passion these past couple of weeks lol.

    85. nyk8806

      Zanzibar: Count de Pennies:
      Who the hell is still available at this late date?

      Based on the vintage of big men we’ve been getting, I would expect we could land someone like Othella Harrington or hell, bring back McDyess! Jerome James anyone?

    86. thenamestsam

      jon abbey:
      I can’t wait to see Harden exposed in the playoffs.

      Exposed…as what? He went from coming off the bench to being indisputably the best player on a team that’s 44-34 in a very tough conference. They’re one of the youngest teams ever to make the playoffs. Personally, he’s a 23 year old who regardless of how you want to stack things up is clearly one of the top 3 shooting guards in the league.

      Are they going to get swept in the first round? Yup, probably. Maybe they survive 5 games. OKC is the 2nd best team in the league. I don’t really see what he’s going to do in the playoffs that would invalidate the massively successful season he has already had. Is the massive hate for this guy just because he’s somebody the Berrites love? Because he shoots a lot of free throws?

    87. jon abbey

      thenamestsam: Exposed…as what? He went from coming off the bench to being indisputably the best player on a team that’s 44-34 in a very tough conference. They’re one of the youngest teams ever to make the playoffs. Personally, he’s a 23 year old who regardless of how you want to stack things up is clearly one of the top 3 shooting guards in the league.

      Are they going to get swept in the first round? Yup, probably. Maybe they survive 5 games. OKC is the 2nd best team in the league. I don’t really see what he’s going to do in the playoffs that would invalidate the massively successful season he has already had. Is the massive hate for this guy just because he’s somebody the Berrites love? Because he shoots a lot of free throws?

      it’s not massive hate, I just think people overvalue his worth because of his TS%. there’s a reason Presti kept Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka all over him, and I think that was the correct move.

      I also think Asik and Parsons don’t get enough credit for how key they’ve been this season for Houston’s success. Harden is lucky to have a defensive center like Asik behind him, certainly.

    88. Robtachi

      stratomatic:
      Listen guys, I knows this is a Knicks blog and we are all diehard Knicks fans. I’ve been a fan since Frazier, Reed, Bradley, Monroe etc… It’s been a long time since we’ve won and we are all craving victory. But if you want to discuss players objectively, you have to learn to set aside your fandom.There is no freaking way Melo is anywhere near as good at the hype he gets because he scores a lot of points and create a lot of shots for himself.He’s a solid player that has some incredible stretches. He had them for Denver also. But he’s not an elite player or even a top 10 player.The Knicks are doing well because they are very deep and are getting some good value out of Kidd, Prigs, Martin and a few other role players earlier in the season. Without that, they’d be a .500 club.

      What a stupid argument. Name one team from the past 30 years that was any good with just one great player and no good value from role players.

      I’ll wait…

    89. yellowboy90

      James Singleton name is being thrown out there. I think Kurt is getting his front office job a little early.

    90. Count de Pennies

      stratomatic: Listen guys, I knows this is a Knicks blog and we are all diehard Knicks fans. I’ve been a fan since Frazier, Reed, Bradley, Monroe etc… It’s been a long time since we’ve won and we are all craving victory. But if you want to discuss players objectively, you have to learn to set aside your fandom. There is no freaking way Melo is anywhere near as good at the hype he gets because he scores a lot of points and create a lot of shots for himself.

      BigBlueAL: Must be miserable being a Knick fan who hates Melo with a passion these past couple of weeks lol.

      I think what you’re seeing here is one of the peculiar affectations of the NYC sports fan.

      It’s OK to root for “the laundry” but loving the star players who wear that laundry is somehow deemed crude and unsophisticated.

      It’s OK to irrationally live and die with the fortunes of your team but when it comes to expressing any appreciation for the team’s marquee talent, only the strictest standards of rational objectivity will do.

      You see this with many Giants fans who constantly feel the need to remind other Giants fans that Eli is not “elite” and, two Super Bowl MVPs notwithstanding, that there are at least 4-5 QBs in the NFL who are unquestionably better.

      You saw this for many years with Yankee fans who felt compelled to point out that Jeter was never the best shortstop in the AL.

      And now Knick fans are being admonished by other Knicks fans on a Knicks board that only the likes of Kevin Durant and James Harden are truly worthy of the praise that some of us foolishly lavish on Melo.

      Well, fuck that. This is sports; I’m a sports fan. I like Melo and choose to regard him as one of the 3-4 best players in the NBA. If your statistical model does not support that viewpoint, I really don’t give a shit.

    91. DRed

      I root for Melo to do well every game. Why am I not a Knicks fan if I don’t think he’s one of the 10 best players in the NBA?

    92. maxwell_3g

      BigBlueAL:
      For the people here who always downgrade Melo and refuse to give him any respect and have hated him since the day he was traded here, how do you react during these past few games when he has been amazing??When he keeps making shot after shot do you just sit there emotionless??Do you actually get pissed when he keeps on scoring??Do you even watch the games??

      I understand not believing he is a Top 5 or 10 player in the NBA but man the haters here cant let him get praise and adulation even during this amazing stretch.Always pointing out his flaws and the players who are allegedly better than him.Must be miserable being a Knick fan who hates Melo with a passion these past couple of weeks lol.

      i have never been a melo fan, but I can place him in the top 10 after watching him all year. probably around 7 or 8. im not sure kobe and harden are better, but i think duncan might be overlooked here. maybe rondo too, IMO. but my change of heart with Melo, besides recency, of course, is based on a) his ability to play pretty solid defense at the PF position, b) his improved rebounding, expecially on offense, and c) his willingness to move the ball (which has been very evident furing our hot streak)

    93. alsep73

      So, anyone know anything of note about James Singleton?

      https://twitter.com/FisolaNYDN/status/322118374832345088

      And if Kurt is the player being cut, I hope he gets some kind of Starks-esque front office gig as a reward for past service, including the Utah game. But we need big bodies, now.

      Speaking of, if there are equivalent talents at point guard and big man available when our first-round pick comes up, which do we need more?

    94. Count de Pennies

      DRed:
      I root for Melo to do well every game. Why am I not a Knicks fan if I don’t think he’s one of the 10 best players in the NBA?

      Dude, I’m not the fan police. It’s not my self-appointed duty to ferret out just who is or is not a “real” Knicks fan.

      I fully allow that’s it’s possible to love the Knicks while being lukewarm on Melo. I have no problem with that and I certainly won’t question anyone’s fanhood on account of it.

      What I do find odd is that there are people who feel compelled to jump in here whenever Melo gets kudos to remind everyone not to get too effusive in their praise; to always bear in mind that Melo will never be in the class of LeBron or even Durant, Harden, and an aging Kobe.

      If this happened on occasion, I’d think it nothing more than the typical fan forum debate. But it seems to happen every fucking time someone here has the temerity to say anything good about Melo or – heaven forbid – include him in the pantheon of the NBA’s top players.

      As I noted above, it’s not unique to Melo. It seems to be a NY sports thing, this need to run down your favorite team’s star players. I pretty much have this same argument with many of my Giants fan friends about Eli, even two Super Bowl wins later.

    95. Juany8

      jon abbey: it’s not massive hate, I just think people overvalue his worth because of his TS%. there’s a reason Presti kept Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka all over him, and I think that was the correct move.

      I also think Asik and Parsons don’t get enough credit for how key they’ve been this season for Houston’s success. Harden is lucky to have a defensive center like Asik behind him, certainly.

      In a year or two, when he develops more of a mid range game and can be elite without requiring calls (I’m terrified of what happens to his free throw rate in the playoffs) Harden is going to be just a spectacular offensive player. All time good on that end perhaps. He’s just so good at making decisions and playing on or off the ball, it’s quite awesome to watch.

      On the other hand…. He’s an outright liability on defense and has an absolutely maddening habit of passing up shots late in the clock or when he’s having a bad game. That’s why TS% is such a stupid stat to go by, it encourages players to make suboptimal decisions with respect to wins for purely selfish reasons. The stat guys see it as progress that players are worrying more about efficiency than volume, I see one silly fantasy stat replacing another, neither of which has much bearing on what actually happens or matters within an offense.

      I also have to say that Asik has been almost as good as Tyson Chandler this year. He sets the some of the best screens in the league (non-Boston’s ridiculously illegal screens-division) and is just awesome to watch on the boards. He’s slowed down a bit on defense compared to last year now that he has to play more minutes, but he’s still one of the top 2 or 3 defenders in the whole league. There’s a reason why Asik manages to have a positive differential when even Harden doesn’t, the Rockets bench isn’t that good lol.

    96. smokinjoe

      er:
      Saw the Espn nbarank . What a joke with Melo at 9. He has had a better season than Kobe, wade and Westbrook. He’s right up there with CP3 and KD this year

      In his past five games , Carmelos scored 40.6 points per game on 61.1 percent shooting. He’s hit 55.6 percent of his 3s and pulled down 8.1 rebounds per game. what was all this talk about Lebrons amazing 5 game stretch??

    97. mcliff05

      Count de Pennies:
      I think what you’re seeing here is one of the peculiar affectations of the NYC sports fan.

      It’s OK to root for “the laundry” but loving the star players who wear that laundry is somehow deemed crude and unsophisticated.

      It’s OK to irrationally live and die with the fortunes of your team but when it comes to expressing any appreciation for the team’s marquee talent, only the strictest standards of rational objectivity will do.

      You see this with many Giants fans who constantly feel the need to remind other Giants fans that Eli is not “elite” and, two Super Bowl MVPs notwithstanding, that there are at least 4-5 QBs in the NFL who are unquestionably better.

      You saw this for many years with Yankee fans who felt compelled to point out that Jeter was never the best shortstop in the AL.

      And now Knick fans are being admonished by other Knicks fans on a Knicks board that only the likes of Kevin Durant and James Harden are truly worthy of the praise that some of us foolishly lavish on Melo.

      Well, fuck that. This is sports; I’m a sports fan. I like Melo and choose to regard him as one of the 3-4 best players in the NBA. If your statistical model does not support that viewpoint, I…

      +1. I’ve never understood this seemingly exclusive mentality to NY teams.

      And I love the Seinfeld/Ruru!

    98. Z-man

      jon abbey: hey! I was taking apart Berri-babble before Juany8 and ruru even got here… :)

      Apologies, jon, I actually was thinking you when I wrote what I did. To be fair, your critique has been longstanding and pretty spot on (imo), but more given to conjecture. Juany has been a bit more analytical in debunking the overall methodology as unscientific (mainly due to the corrupt nature of box score stats) and ruru had put in countless hours to dissect and present synergy-type stats in refuting some underlying assumptions of WoW. But no question, you have been in the vanguard of the anti-WoW gang on this site.

      I’m less zealous than you re: Berri, and do feel that his work has some merit; I just think is is about as flawed as PER, WS, and other measures of individual player’s value to winning games.

    99. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      jon abbey: it’s not massive hate, I just think people overvalue his worth because of his TS%. there’s a reason Presti kept Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka all over him, and I think that was the correct move.

      Because he had an awesome SG already (Sefalosha) and got another excellent one in return (Martin). Are you kidding me with this bullshit?

      Also, WP48 superstar Andre Drummond having one of the best frontcourt games of the season tonight.

    100. Z-man

      Count de Pennies:
      I think what you’re seeing here is one of the peculiar affectations of the NYC sports fan.

      It’s OK to root for “the laundry” but loving the star players who wear that laundry is somehow deemed crude and unsophisticated.

      It’s OK to irrationally live and die with the fortunes of your team but when it comes to expressing any appreciation for the team’s marquee talent, only the strictest standards of rational objectivity will do.

      You see this with many Giants fans who constantly feel the need to remind other Giants fans that Eli is not “elite” and, two Super Bowl MVPs notwithstanding, that there are at least 4-5 QBs in the NFL who are unquestionably better.

      You saw this for many years with Yankee fans who felt compelled to point out that Jeter was never the best shortstop in the AL.

      And now Knick fans are being admonished by other Knicks fans on a Knicks board that only the likes of Kevin Durant and James Harden are truly worthy of the praise that some of us foolishly lavish on Melo.

      Well, fuck that. This is sports; I’m a sports fan. I like Melo and choose to regard him as one of the 3-4 best players in the NBA. If your statistical model does not support that viewpoint, I really don’t give a shit.

      Love when you chime in, Count, do it more often, please!

      When I was a kid the ’69-’70 Knicks had Frazier, Willis, Bradley, DaveD and Barnett, NOBODY debated whether the individual players were great or just good. Ah, the good ol’ days! Why can’t we just appreciate how well the TEAM has been playing? When it comes right down to it, all players are role players, and on this team, Melo has been playing his role (DEVASTATE opposing defenses by scoring every conceivable manner from 0-25 feet) freakin’ splendidly. I’m cool with that!

    101. AnonymousODG

      stratomatic:
      He’s the most versatile scorer in the league and among the best at creating his own shot, but he’s not an elite shooter and scoring is pretty much the only thing he’s above average at.He’s pretty much average at everything else and because he works so hard trying to create shots and score points, he turns the ball over a lot.He also loses focus at times and doesn’t defend at all, walks up the court etc..

      This is most assuredly, the dumbest post I have ever read on Knickerblogger.net. This notion about Melo giving up turnovers is just completely wrong. Like underwear-on-your-head wrong. Melo is better than them at protecting the ball despite his high usage. Harden, Kobe, Durant, Westbrook and James turn over the ball at much higher rates than Melo. Wade and Parker are about the same. Only Paul and Duncan protect the ball better.

      I don’t know what “elite shooting” is supposed to mean, only that you probably have some warped, arbitrary and hypocritical sense of the concept where Harden and Westbrook get passes for their terrible efficiency but Melo doesn’t — never mind that Melo is a superior 3 pt shooter than all but two of these top 10 NBA guys (Lebron, Durant).

      And scoring being something he’s only above average at???? You’re just embarrassing yourself at this point. He isn’t just above average, he’s the leading scorer in the league.

      As for defense, even casual idiot fans aren’t going to use this against placing Melo on this list when you have guys like Kobe and Harden there.

    102. johnno

      Count de Pennies: You see this with many Giants fans who constantly feel the need to remind other Giants fans that Eli is not “elite” and, two Super Bowl MVPs notwithstanding, that there are at least 4-5 QBs in the NFL who are unquestionably better.

      Perfect analogy. Eli is not nearly as “efficient” as Brady and his brother, makes more than they do, isn’t as consistent as they are, etc., etc. I for one couldn’t care less whether Eli is the best or worst quarterback in the league. All I know is that those two unlikely, unbelievable, ridiculous super bowl runs were about as much fun as I have EVER had as a sports fan. As a result, Eli will forever be one of my favorite athletes of all time. If Melo takes the Knicks on a similar magic carpet ride, he, too will be one of my all-time favorites, regardless of whether he is “efficient” in doing it.

    103. ruruland

      AnonymousODG: This is most assuredly, the dumbest post I have ever read on Knickerblogger.net.This notion about Melo giving up turnovers is just completely wrong.Like underwear-on-your-head wrong.Melo is better than them at protecting the ball despite his high usage.Harden, Kobe, Durant, Westbrook and James turn over the ball at much higher rates than Melo.Wade and Parker are about the same.Only Paul and Duncan protect the ball better.

      I don’t know what “elite shooting” is supposed to mean, only that you probably have some warped, arbitrary and hypocritical sense of the concept where Harden and Westbrook get passes for their terrible efficiency but Melo doesn’t — never mind that Melo is a superior 3 pt shooter than all but two of these top 10 NBA guys (Lebron, Durant).

      And scoring being something he’s only above average at????You’re just embarrassing yourself at this point.He isn’t just above average, he’s the leading scorer in the league.

      As for defense, even casual idiot fans aren’t going to use this against placing Melo on this list when you have guys like Kobe and Harden there.

      “Underwear on your head wrong.” That is great.

      In fact, Melo has the 22nd lowest to % for players with 30 or above usage since 1977. There have been 150 such seasons in that span.

      Jordan owns 7 of the seasons ahead of him.

      Melo’s turnover % is legitimately great, and even better when we look at his assisted basket %.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder

    104. ruruland

      In fact, Melo has the lowest turnover % in the NBA for players who are assisted on fewer than 55% of their baskets this year.

      Who is No. 1?

      J.R. Smith.

      http://hoopdata.com/advancedstats.aspx

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=mp_per_g_req&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=tov_pct&order_by_asc=&offset=100

    105. ruruland

      Juany8: In a year or two, when he develops more of a mid range game and can be elite without requiring calls (I’m terrified of what happens to his free throw rate in the playoffs) Harden is going to be just a spectacular offensive player. All time good on that end perhaps. He’s just so good at making decisions and playing on or off the ball, it’s quite awesome to watch.

      On the other hand…. He’s an outright liability on defense and has an absolutely maddening habit of passing up shots late in the clock or when he’s having a bad game. That’s why TS% is such a stupid stat to go by, it encourages players to make suboptimal decisions with respect to wins for purely selfish reasons. The stat guys see it as progress that players are worrying more about efficiency than volume, I see one silly fantasy stat replacing another, neither of which has much bearing on what actually happens or matters within an offense.

      I also have to say that Asik has been almost as good as Tyson Chandler this year. He sets the some of the best screens in the league (non-Boston’s ridiculously illegal screens-division) and is just awesome to watch on the boards. He’s slowed down a bit on defense compared to last year now that he has to play more minutes, but he’s still one of the top 2 or 3 defenders in the whole league. There’s a reason why Asik manages to have a positive differential when even Harden doesn’t, the Rockets bench isn’t that good lol.

      Great post.

    106. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      maxwell_3g: b) his improved rebounding, expecially on offense

      What? His offensive rebounding is at his career average. Overall rebounding too.

    107. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: What? His offensive rebounding is at his career average. Overall rebounding too.

      Jowles, you know that Oliver found that found each percent of usage to be worth 0.6 points to the individual player, or 0.12 points at the team level per 100 possessions?

      Witus found it to be .25 points per 100 possessions.

      #skillcurve

    108. The Infamous Cdiggy

      Count de Pennies: Dude, I’m not the fan police. It’s not my self-appointed duty to ferret out just who is or is not a “real” Knicks fan.

      I fully allow that’s it’s possible to love the Knicks while being lukewarm on Melo. I have no problem with that and I certainly won’t question anyone’s fanhood on account of it.

      What I do find odd is that there are people who feel compelled to jump in here whenever Melo gets kudos to remind everyone not to get too effusive in their praise; to always bear in mind that Melo will never be in the class of LeBron or even Durant, Harden, and an aging Kobe.

      If this happened on occasion, I’d think it nothing more than the typical fan forum debate. But it seems to happen every fucking time someone here has the temerity to say anything good about Melo or – heaven forbid – include him in the pantheon of the NBA’s top players.

      As I noted above, it’s not unique to Melo. It seems to be a NY sports thing, this need to run down your favorite team’s star players. I pretty much have this same argument with many of my Giants fan friends about Eli, even two Super Bowl wins later.

      It took one of my college buddies and fellow Giants fan until RIGHT after Super Bowl 46 to FINALLY admit Eli is Elite. Did he have a bit of a down year this year? Sure (Nicks being hurt really affected the pass game). But that man is money in the 4th quarter, can make all the throws needed, and has beat Media-Darling-Supreme Tom “PrettyBoy” Brady twice for the rings.

      There are times I’ve had my reservations about Melo, as has many of us. I think mentally there may still be another level he can climb to. But he’s been on an absolute tear – let Melo be Melo, as long as stays engaged on D.

    Comments are closed.