Z-man:
I really get annoyed when people (like Bill Simmons) disparage the quality of basketball in the late 50?s-early ’70?s. There were plenty of great players back then and most of them were in top shape for that era. Teams scored 120 points a game without the 3-pt line, so the game was very physically demanding. They grew up in schoolyards and driveways with no ESPN highlights to emulate for footwork, one-on-one moves, etc. College coaches were absolute dictators back then and most frowned on any type of play that diverged from team fundamentals. Without role models and modern fitness/medical/coaching advances, and enough income to not have to worry about working during the off season, Hakeem might have been Walt Bellamy or Nate Thurmond back then. Wilt was taller, longer, stronger, faster and more athletic than any of the guys you mentioned. Russell and wilt were both world class high-jumpers in track and field. Remamber that there were only 12 teams in the entire league, so these 4 made up a third of the league’s centers.

LeBron is the latest evolutionary manifestation of the Jordan-DR J-Connie Hawkins-Elgin Baylor continuum. Wilt and Russell only had George Mikan to emulate, i.e. they had to figure it out for themselves. Who’s to say that Russell, maybe the fiercest competitor in basketball history, would not have become a 6’9? Jordan or LeBron if he had grown up practicing their moves on the playground instead of having George Mikan’s game jammed down his throat?

Regarding comparing Nash to Magic, are you serious? Magic played center, CENTER, in game 7 of the NBA finals and had one of the great games that a center has ever had in NBA history. Nash can’t even defend people at his own position, much less any other. And where did you get the information about Magic and Bird always guarding the other team’s weakest player BECAUSE THEY WERE POOR DEFENDERS? You are the…

LeBron is the latest evolutionary manifestation of the Jordan-DR J-Connie Hawkins-Elgin Baylor continuum. Wilt and Russell only had George Mikan to emulate, i.e. they had to figure it out for themselves. Who’s to say that Russell, maybe the fiercest competitor in basketball history, would not have become a 6’9″ Jordan or LeBron if he had grown up practicing their moves on the playground instead of having George Mikan’s game jammed down his throat?

Regarding comparing Nash to Magic, are you serious? Magic played center, CENTER, in game 7 of the NBA finals and had one of the great games that a center has ever had in NBA history. Nash can’t even defend people at his own position, much less any other. And where did you get the information about Magic and Bird always guarding the other team’s weakest player BECAUSE THEY WERE POOR DEFENDERS? You are the very first person I ever heard say that.

Z-man: Magic and Bird were transcendent players on both ends. Neither were great man defenders, but they were just as much the quarterback/free safety of their respective defenses as they were of their offenses. To call Magic a defensive liability is not accurate. He was almost always in the right place at the right time and made sure that everyone else was in the right place at the right time. If “making teammates better” is the most important of the GOAT criteria, you could make a very strong argument for Magic.

I personally agree that Magic was not as great as Jordan or Kareem, but if we were drafting players in their primes and I got stuck with Magic, I wouldn’t be upset in the least.

I’d say Magic was a top 5 player of all time pretty easily, but freaking Steve Nash is good at being in the right place and quarterbacking a defense, if you can’t actually guard anyone what does it matter? He was usually put on the opponent’s weakest player, as was Bird. This isn’t like Amar’e not trying on D, these are just guys who simply couldn’t keep up with other strong offensive players no matter their effort level (seriously, picture Bird trying to guard Lebron lol).

Personally, I’d take a big men who was dominant on both ends over just about anyone, which is why I’d seriously consider putting Tim Duncan over even Magic and Bird. As it is, I’d probably take Hakeem over anyone except Kareem, the guy was the best defensive player of all time! (Bill Russell played against fat, unathletic white people, Hakeem played against Shaq, Robinson, Kareem, and Ewing)

Juany8: I’m not disputing Magic’s greatness, but can someone who was a defensive liability really be considered the best player of all time? Jordan was an absolute monster on defense, but I’d probably take Kareem if I was starting a franchise with any one player. I’d rather have someone who can be dominant on offense and defense, even if Magic and Jordan were better offensive players overall

Magic and Bird were transcendent players on both ends. Neither were great man defenders, but they were just as much the quarterback/free safety of their respective defenses as they were of their offenses. To call Magic a defensive liability is not accurate. He was almost always in the right place at the right time and made sure that everyone else was in the right place at the right time. If “making teammates better” is the most important of the GOAT criteria, you could make a very strong argument for Magic.

I personally agree that Magic was not as great as Jordan or Kareem, but if we were drafting players in their primes and I got stuck with Magic, I wouldn’t be upset in the least.

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The Honorable Cock Jowles:
Magic Johnson also might be the best player of all-time, maybe better than Jordan. You’re allowed to choose your own coach when you’re as good as he was.

Its pretty remarkable how good his stats were even in his short comeback season in 1996.