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Saturday, August 30, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Sep 25 2012)

  • [New York Post] Shaq not sure Knicks improved in offseason (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 03:04:32 -0500)
    The Knicks won a playoff game last year for the first time in 11 years, and expectations are even higher this season after the team made a flurry of offseason acquisitions. But as four-time NBA champion center Shaquille O’Neal sees it, they are a long way off from being…

  • [New York Post] Wallace weighs Knicks’ interest (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 04:41:06 -0500)
    It’s up to Rasheed.
    The Knicks are willing to take a gamble on 6-foot-11 power forward Rasheed Wallace, who retired two seasons ago after finishing a disappointing one-year stint as a Celtic.
    But Wallace, who worked out with Knicks players Saturday at their training facility, still has not decided…

  • [New York Times] Brook Lopez and MarShon Brooks Consider Future With Nets (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 05:05:06 GMT)
    Brook Lopez and MarShon Brooks opened the Nets’ first team store in Brooklyn on Monday, which seems almost poetic until you consider how close they were to becoming former Nets.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Rasheed Wallace May Join Knicks’ Veteran Corps (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 04:51:28 GMT)
    Rasheed Wallace, 38, may come out of retirement to join the Knicks, his agent said Monday. Wallace’s last N.B.A. season was in 2010 with Boston, where he averaged 9 points a game coming off the bench.

  • [New York Daily News] Even if ‘Sheed joins, Shaq says Knicks as not hot as Heat (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 02:35:26 GMT)
    Two of NBA’s most dominant big men of their era – who shared a title with the 2005-06 Heat – have mixed opinions about whether the Knicks and coach Mike Woodson can ever bring a championship back to New York.

  • 30 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Sep 25 2012)

    1. thenamestsam

      Can someone explain to me the Knicks interest in Sheed? Does no one remember how he played two years ago on the Celtics? Look at the article Simmons wrote about him:

      http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100407&sportCat=nba

      I’ve honestly never seen a player as out of shape as he was that year with the exception of Eddy Curry. And I’ve never seen a player on a pretty good team so blatantly give so little of a fuck, no exceptions made. And that year was actually an encore performance, immediately proceeded by him quitting on his coach in Detroit. And now he has taken two years off and somehow this guy is someone we want on our roster? I find that very hard to believe.

      And on top of all that, he doesn’t even fill a need. We have 3 defensive bigs already. And yes, Sheed is more offensively gifted than any of them, but gifted doesn’t matter if you don’t understand how to utilize those skills, and someone who averages 6 3s per 36 while shooting 28%(!!!) definitely qualifies in my book. And besides if we want to go to an offensive lineup, the bigs should be Amare and Melo. This just doesn’t make any sense to me at all. Can someone please take a stab at explaining it?

    2. er

      i think its an early/april fools

      thenamestsam:
      Can someone explain to me the Knicks interest in Sheed? Does no one remember how he played two years ago on the Celtics? Look at the article Simmons wrote about him:

      http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100407&sportCat=nba

      I’ve honestly never seen a player as out of shape as he was that year with the exception of Eddy Curry. And I’ve never seen a player on a pretty good team so blatantly give so little of a fuck, no exceptions made. And that year was actually an encore performance, immediately proceeded by him quitting on his coach in Detroit. And now he has taken two years off and somehow this guy is someone we want on our roster? I find that very hard to believe.

      And on top of all that, he doesn’t even fill a need. We have 3 defensive bigs already. And yes, Sheed is more offensively gifted than any of them, but gifted doesn’t matter if you don’t understand how to utilize those skills, and someone who averages 6 3s per 36 while shooting 28%(!!!) definitely qualifies in my book. And besides if we want to go to an offensive lineup, the bigs should be Amare and Melo. This just doesn’t make any sense to me at all. Can someone please take a stab at explaining it?

    3. thenamestsam

      er:
      i think its an early/april fools

      So we might even say that the last 10 years has just been one extended April fool’s joke on an entire fanbase. The Knick’s dedication to comedy is admirable.

    4. Frank

      yeah i’m not totally sure what Sheed gets you right now. He’s admittedly out of shape, questionably motivated, old, and with decreasing production. I’d so much rather save that roster spot for a young hungry guy who might break out if given a chance. Not that there are that many of those.

      If we’re going to use a roster spot on a big, why not see if Greg Oden wants to come play for the minimum? He hasn’t signed with anyone yet, right? Give him a two year contract, let him basically rehab the entire 1st year, then see what he can give you the 2nd. At the very least he would be a trade chip if he can show anything.

    5. Juany8

      Frank:
      yeah i’m not totally sure what Sheed gets you right now. He’s admittedly out of shape, questionably motivated, old, and with decreasing production. I’d so much rather save that roster spot for a young hungry guy who might break out if given a chance.Not that there are that many of those.

      If we’re going to use a roster spot on a big, why not see if Greg Oden wants to come play for the minimum? He hasn’t signed with anyone yet, right? Give him a two year contract, let him basically rehab the entire 1st year, then see what he can give you the 2nd.At the very least he would be a trade chip if he can show anything.

      Funny thing is people were complaining about JR Smith’s brother lol. The only player who I can think of who would be a worse pickup is Eddy Curry…

    6. er

      dont mean to rehash this too much but espn has pau, blake and bynum ahead of melo.

      i honestly dont understand these, not to mention dwill and westbrook

    7. Juany8

      er:
      dont mean to rehash this too much but espn has pau, blake and bynum ahead of melo.

      i honestly dont understand these, not to mention dwill and westbrook

      I can understand Bynum and Griffin pretty easily, they’re both younger and Griffin is a monster in the making (although pretty funny that Melo gets called out for his defense when Griffin is clearly worse) Pau has been declining the past 2 years though, and is on the wrong side of 30. He’s also going to be the 4th offensive option on his team, while not being an elite defender. Deron Williams hasn’t shown he’s even all that good since he got to New Jersey, the pass he gets for stinking it up there is becoming ridiculous.

    8. massive

      I understand Pau Gasol being ahead of Carmelo Anthony. He’s (IMO) the best passing big man in the game, and he still gets you a double-double every night. Andrew Bynum and Griffin, both double-double players, are also understandable.

      But D-Will and Russell Westbrook? That makes no sense to me. D-Will just played some of the worst basketball in his career, his team misses the playoffs, and people think he’s better than Melo (All-Star starter in the same conference, put up his career 2nd best WS/48, actually won a playoff game)? That’s stupid. And again, Russell Westbrook is just a bigger and more-athletic version of Allen Iverson (well, he plays better D than AI).

    9. massive

      The thing that pisses me off about Deron Williams is the whole “well who was he passing the ball to” argument. Great PGs find ways to elevate the game of their teammates. If he didn’t get drafted with Chris Paul, he wouldn’t be so popular.

    10. Juany8

      massive:
      The thing that pisses me off about Deron Williams is the whole “well who was he passing the ball to” argument. Great PGs find ways to elevate the game of their teammates. If he didn’t get drafted with Chris Paul, he wouldn’t be so popular.

      The no teammates argument is also laughable when you stop to consider what Nash had to work with. Westbrook is at least an elite defender that can defend both guard spots (really useful when you have to go through D-Wade, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, and Kobe to win a championship) Now I will say the Williams was far better when he was in Utah, but it’s starting to seem like some part of that was due to Jerry Sloan’s coaching

    11. d-mar

      Also, if you’re gonna make Melo some kind of villain for chasing out D’Antoni, then do the same for D-Will, who very publicly tried to get Sloan fired in Utah.

    12. Z-man

      Juany8: Westbrook is at least an elite defender that can defend both guard spots (really useful when you have to go through D-Wade, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, and Kobe to win a championship)

      Don’t forget Jeremy Lin.

    13. Brian Cronin

      Also, if you’re gonna make Melo some kind of villain for chasing out D’Antoni, then do the same for D-Will, who very publicly tried to get Sloan fired in Utah.

      Yeah, I’ve always found it absurd how arbitrarily people use the “driving off a coach = player is a bad person” meme. Magic freakin’ Johnson, anyone?

    14. yoda4554

      Yes, Deron Williams is coming off a personal-low in TS% last year; it was still better than Melo’s. He also still has another non-scoring elite skill, his playmaking, which Melo lacks. He’s not good defensively, but he’s no worse for his position than Melo. (WS ranking him worse than Melo last year is entirely on DRtg, which is mostly about Tyson Chandler being better than Johan Petro.)

      Pau Gasol is also coming off a personally poor TS% year–which was markedly better than Melo’s. He’s also among the best passers at his position, an excellent rebounder, and has a history of being a solid-if-unspectacular defender, none of which is really true for Melo. He’ll be wasted for the Lakers this year, which is why I sort of feel like Denver’s going to flip a center and two forwards for him mid-year, but he’s still really good.

      Blake Griffin is worse defensively than Melo–but he’s also a higher efficiency scorer, a vastly better rebounder, and an equally good ballhandler/playmaker. Andrew Bynum, when healthy, has always been a vastly more efficient scorer, a vastly better rebounder, and a vastly better defender than Melo.

      If there are still a couple of people ESPN ranks above him that they oughtn’t (e.g. Westbrook), the list of people ranked lower than him that are better is longer: just among SFs (the league’s weakest position), Iguodala is clearly better (blows him away defensively, and is around even at everything else other than taking lots of shots) and for the same reasons, though to a lesser extent, Gerald Wallace is also superior; if you want a #1-scoring option with questionable D, Paul Pierce at least has a consistently high efficiency, going well back to before KG/Allen. It’s not clear, either, that Melo is better than Luol Deng or Shawn Marion, who are probably a little better at defense than Melo is at offense and no worse at offense than Melo is at defense.

    15. yellowboy90

      Brian Cronin: Yeah, I’ve always found it absurd how arbitrarily people use the “driving off a coach = player is a bad person” meme. Magic freakin’ Johnson, anyone?

      But Magic had a smile and Melo… Oh wait Melo smiles too. Never mind. LOL.

    16. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Magic Johnson also might be the best player of all-time, maybe better than Jordan. You’re allowed to choose your own coach when you’re as good as he was.

    17. ruruland

      yoda4554:
      Yes, Deron Williams is coming off a personal-low in TS% last year; it was still better than Melo’s.He also still has another non-scoring elite skill, his playmaking, which Melo lacks.He’s not good defensively, but he’s no worse for his position than Melo.(WS ranking him worse than Melo last year is entirely on DRtg, which is mostly about Tyson Chandler being better than Johan Petro.)

      Pau Gasol is also coming off a personally poor TS% year–which was markedly better than Melo’s.He’s also among the best passers at his position, an excellent rebounder, and has a history of being a solid-if-unspectacular defender, none of which is really true for Melo.He’ll be wasted for the Lakers this year, which is why I sort of feel like Denver’s going to flip a center and two forwards for him mid-year, but he’s still really good.

      Blake Griffin is worse defensively than Melo–but he’s also a higher efficiency scorer, a vastly better rebounder, and an equally good ballhandler/playmaker.Andrew Bynum, when healthy, has always been a vastly more efficient scorer, a vastly better rebounder, and a vastly better defender than Melo.

      If there are still a couple of people ESPN ranks above him that they oughtn’t (e.g. Westbrook), the list of people ranked lower than him that are better is longer: just among SFs (the league’s weakest position), Iguodala is clearly better (blows him away defensively, and is around even at everything else other than taking lots of shots) and for the same reasons, though to a lesser extent, Gerald Wallace is also superior; if you want a #1-scoring option with questionable D, Paul Pierce at least has a consistently high efficiency, going well back to before KG/Allen.It’s not clear, either, that Melo is better than Luol Deng or Shawn Marion, who are probably a little better at defense than Melo is at offense and no worse at offense than Melo is at…

      Looking forward to some chats this year, Yoda. Man this is going to be fun.

    18. BigBlueAL

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Magic Johnson also might be the best player of all-time, maybe better than Jordan. You’re allowed to choose your own coach when you’re as good as he was.

      Its pretty remarkable how good his stats were even in his short comeback season in 1996.

    19. Juany8

      I’m not disputing Magic’s greatness, but can someone who was a defensive liability really be considered the best player of all time? Jordan was an absolute monster on defense, but I’d probably take Kareem if I was starting a franchise with any one player. I’d rather have someone who can be dominant on offense and defense, even if Magic and Jordan were better offensive players overall

    20. Z-man

      Juany8: I’m not disputing Magic’s greatness, but can someone who was a defensive liability really be considered the best player of all time? Jordan was an absolute monster on defense, but I’d probably take Kareem if I was starting a franchise with any one player. I’d rather have someone who can be dominant on offense and defense, even if Magic and Jordan were better offensive players overall

      Magic and Bird were transcendent players on both ends. Neither were great man defenders, but they were just as much the quarterback/free safety of their respective defenses as they were of their offenses. To call Magic a defensive liability is not accurate. He was almost always in the right place at the right time and made sure that everyone else was in the right place at the right time. If “making teammates better” is the most important of the GOAT criteria, you could make a very strong argument for Magic.

      I personally agree that Magic was not as great as Jordan or Kareem, but if we were drafting players in their primes and I got stuck with Magic, I wouldn’t be upset in the least.

    21. Z-man

      You could also argue that Magic may be the only player besides LeBron that could have made the HOF at all 5 positions.

    22. Juany8

      Z-man: Magic and Bird were transcendent players on both ends. Neither were great man defenders, but they were just as much the quarterback/free safety of their respective defenses as they were of their offenses. To call Magic a defensive liability is not accurate. He was almost always in the right place at the right time and made sure that everyone else was in the right place at the right time. If “making teammates better” is the most important of the GOAT criteria, you could make a very strong argument for Magic.

      I personally agree that Magic was not as great as Jordan or Kareem, but if we were drafting players in their primes and I got stuck with Magic, I wouldn’t be upset in the least.

      I’d say Magic was a top 5 player of all time pretty easily, but freaking Steve Nash is good at being in the right place and quarterbacking a defense, if you can’t actually guard anyone what does it matter? He was usually put on the opponent’s weakest player, as was Bird. This isn’t like Amar’e not trying on D, these are just guys who simply couldn’t keep up with other strong offensive players no matter their effort level (seriously, picture Bird trying to guard Lebron lol).

      Personally, I’d take a big men who was dominant on both ends over just about anyone, which is why I’d seriously consider putting Tim Duncan over even Magic and Bird. As it is, I’d probably take Hakeem over anyone except Kareem, the guy was the best defensive player of all time! (Bill Russell played against fat, unathletic white people, Hakeem played against Shaq, Robinson, Kareem, and Ewing)

    23. Z-man

      I really get annoyed when people (like Bill Simmons) disparage the quality of basketball in the late 50′s-early ’70′s. There were plenty of great players back then and most of them were in top shape for that era. Teams scored 120 points a game without the 3-pt line, so the game was very physically demanding. They grew up in schoolyards and driveways with no ESPN highlights to emulate for footwork, one-on-one moves, etc. College coaches were absolute dictators back then and most frowned on any type of play that diverged from team fundamentals. Without role models and modern fitness/medical/coaching advances, and enough income to not have to worry about working during the off season, Hakeem might have been Walt Bellamy or Nate Thurmond back then. Wilt was taller, longer, stronger, faster and more athletic than any of the guys you mentioned. Russell and wilt were both world class high-jumpers in track and field. Remamber that there were only 12 teams in the entire league, so these 4 made up a third of the league’s centers.

      LeBron is the latest evolutionary manifestation of the Jordan-DR J-Connie Hawkins-Elgin Baylor continuum. Wilt and Russell only had George Mikan to emulate, i.e. they had to figure it out for themselves. Who’s to say that Russell, maybe the fiercest competitor in basketball history, would not have become a 6’9″ Jordan or LeBron if he had grown up practicing their moves on the playground instead of having George Mikan’s game jammed down his throat?

      Regarding comparing Nash to Magic, are you serious? Magic played center, CENTER, in game 7 of the NBA finals and had one of the great games that a center has ever had in NBA history. Nash can’t even defend people at his own position, much less any other. And where did you get the information about Magic and Bird always guarding the other team’s weakest player BECAUSE THEY WERE POOR DEFENDERS? You are the very first person I ever heard say that.

    24. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Nash is an amazing player, but… hand-check. It’s just not the same game. I put Stockton ahead of Nash just because of the era he dominated in.

    25. ruruland

      Z-man:
      I really get annoyed when people (like Bill Simmons) disparage the quality of basketball in the late 50?s-early ’70?s. There were plenty of great players back then and most of them were in top shape for that era. Teams scored 120 points a game without the 3-pt line, so the game was very physically demanding. They grew up in schoolyards and driveways with no ESPN highlights to emulate for footwork, one-on-one moves, etc. College coaches were absolute dictators back then and most frowned on any type of play that diverged from team fundamentals. Without role models and modern fitness/medical/coaching advances, and enough income to not have to worry about working during the off season, Hakeem might have been Walt Bellamy or Nate Thurmond back then. Wilt was taller, longer, stronger, faster and more athletic than any of the guys you mentioned. Russell and wilt were both world class high-jumpers in track and field. Remamber that there were only 12 teams in the entire league, so these 4 made up a third of the league’s centers.

      LeBron is the latest evolutionary manifestation of the Jordan-DR J-Connie Hawkins-Elgin Baylor continuum. Wilt and Russell only had George Mikan to emulate, i.e. they had to figure it out for themselves. Who’s to say that Russell, maybe the fiercest competitor in basketball history, would not have become a 6’9? Jordan or LeBron if he had grown up practicing their moves on the playground instead of having George Mikan’s game jammed down his throat?

      Regarding comparing Nash to Magic, are you serious? Magic played center, CENTER, in game 7 of the NBA finals and had one of the great games that a center has ever had in NBA history. Nash can’t even defend people at his own position, much less any other. And where did you get the information about Magic and Bird always guarding the other team’s weakest player BECAUSE THEY WERE POOR DEFENDERS? You are the…

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