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Friday, October 31, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Nov 06 2012)

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks deep-Sixer Philly again to stay unbeaten (Tue, 06 Nov 2012 07:55:20 GMT)
    Rasheed Wallace is slowly becoming the Knicks victory cigar, only to be called upon once a win is already secured. Only on Monday, Mike Woodson didn’t wait until the closing minutes to summon the veteran.

  • [New York Daily News] Ewing: Knicks talented, but no lock for a ring (Tue, 06 Nov 2012 03:30:25 GMT)
    The Big Fella had a good chuckle when asked about the current Knicks roster, one that features several players who put the “old” in “old school.”

  • 71 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Nov 06 2012)

    1. SeeWhyDee77

      I know it’s early..but thru the 1st 3 games I have surmised that the Knicks are pretty damn good..sans Stat. Who knows when he gets back..but rite now?? Sorry Jeremy Lin..I know I was a fan when u were ballin an no doubt u had a helluva run an u playin pretty well thus far this season. But u not that good on D and u are not as good a floor general as Felton, Kidd or Prigs. U can score an get assists..but we got THREE PG’s that can run the show, play D and shoot. Easiest 28 ppg Melo ever scored. Let me be clear..I’m not trying to sound anti Lin cuz I still love him. How could u NOT root for this kid? He is everything the NBA is not, seemingly, and succeeding at doing it. I’m just trying to accentuate the strengths we have at the 1 without him. Now, when Melo is out and the offense gets a little stagnant we will problee miss Lin’s takeover ability, but D’Antoni and Kidd has proven over their careers that team ball is nothing to scoff at. It works. So, we might not have a go to guy at those times, but the offense can still be successful considering the way guys are getting involved with Melo on the floor. And not 2 mention around him is nothing but a nice mix of defenders an shooters. Yup…pretty damn good. We’d still be good with Lin, but I think this set up is better overall.

    2. ess-dog

      It’s that killer Brewer/Chandler combo. But I have to admit, I underrated the Kidd effect. He really controls the flow out there. We look a lot like last years post-DAntoni team but the passing is even better. It’s especially great having Prig back up Ray.

      The team is just soooo different from the mid season ’10-’11 Knicks, it boggles the mind.

    3. Frank

      Brewer’s D is just tremendous. He’s always been known as a low-foul guy despite being a tenacious defender, and this year in 79 minutes he has only 2 fouls. That is ridiculous considering how much he challenges ballhandlers.

      And the offense – this offense is just so unbelievably different with 3 real point guards. Lin was great and all but he was mostly about finding his own shot (which was good too) – but watching these guys just fling it around so quickly is just musical to watch.

      It really feels like watching San Antonio’s offense from last year, with the added bonus of watching a better version of our own defense from last year.

      I know it’s only 3 games, but dude- a ~20 point margin against PHI and MIA is pretty awesome. Let’s just not get cocky and stop playing as precisely as we have been!

    4. d-mar

      I am liking Woody more and more as a coach, and frankly, when they signed him I was kind of meh. He really has this team focused from the start (a trait the pre-Woodson Knicks never showed) and I loved the fact that last night he didn’t call the standard timeout when they fell behind 14-4. And the players said they appreciated it as well. So he demands accountability and is tough on his players, but they respect him and he doesn’t act like a maniac a la Skiles or Stan Van Gundy.

      Perfect coach for this team

    5. Juany8

      Not to mention that Tyson Chandler, far and away our best player according to WP, hasn’t really played much. It would be one thing if Camby was replacing him (he’s another WP star) but it’s been Kurt Thomas, Rasheed Wallace, and even Melo playing some center.

      There’s also the fact that Melo, a player who is pretty much the symbol for all that WP advocates hate, is having career numbers in WP and WS so far, which both pretty much agree he’s playing like the superstar the Knicks payed for. Every positive WP piece on the Knicks couldn’t help but point out how much better the team would be giving Brewer and Novak Anthony’s minutes lol

    6. Frank O.

      Love how well the Knicks are playing.
      Can’t get too excited.
      But love the depth.
      Anyone wondering whether Shump should start over Brewer. At the moment, I’m not sure Shump is better.
      This team’s depth at the moment is pretty sick. Amare and Shump return and it’s gravy.

    7. Juany8

      d-mar:
      I am liking Woody more and more as a coach, and frankly, when they signed him I was kind of meh. He really has this team focused from the start (a trait the pre-Woodson Knicks never showed) and I loved the fact that last night he didn’t call the standard timeout when they fell behind 14-4. And the players said they appreciated it as well. So he demands accountability and is tough on his players, but they respect him and he doesn’t act like a maniac a la Skiles or Stan Van Gundy.

      Perfect coach for this team

      Woodson’s Hawks teams were killed for running the offense through Joe Johnson (Iso-Joe!) but that never took into account that the only other ball handler on that team was Mike Bibby. This Knicks team should make it blatantly obvious how hard it is for a wing to the the only competent ball handler on a team, at some point your only option against elite teams is to let the wing player do whatever he wants because no one else can even get open, and any pick and roll will be swiftly trapped.

      Woodson’s teams still improved every year he was the head coach there, it’s not like they were ever close to as talented as teams like the Celtics and Magic. Woodson is not a great in game adjuster, but he’s a great motivator and really connects with his more mercurial players. By having players like Kidd, Brewer, and Chandler, the Knicks also have players of running a smooth offense and defense regardless of who the coach is. I’d rather have Rick Carlisle or Doc Rivers of course, but Woodson is proving to be a very solid coach.

    8. er

      I was with you until this line, “How could u NOT root for this kid? He is everything the NBA is not, seemingly, and succeeding at doing it.” Can you explain what you mean by he is everything the NBA is not? Do you mean Asian?

      SeeWhyDee77:
      I know it’s early..but thru the 1st 3 games I have surmised that the Knicks are pretty damn good..sans Stat. Who knows when he gets back..but rite now?? Sorry Jeremy Lin..I know I was a fan when u were ballin an no doubt u had a helluva run an u playin pretty well thus far this season. But u not that good on D and u are not as good a floor general as Felton, Kidd or Prigs. U can score an get assists..but we got THREE PG’s that can run the show, play D and shoot. Easiest 28 ppg Melo ever scored. Let me be clear..I’m not trying to sound anti Lin cuz I still love him. How could u NOT root for this kid? He is everything the NBA is not, seemingly, and succeeding at doing it. I’m just trying to accentuate the strengths we have at the 1 without him. Now, when Melo is out and the offense gets a little stagnant we will problee miss Lin’s takeover ability, but D’Antoni and Kidd has proven over their careers that team ball is nothing to scoff at. It works. So, we might not have a go to guy at those times, but the offense can still be successful considering the way guys are getting involved with Melo on the floor. And not 2 mention around him is nothing but a nice mix of defenders an shooters. Yup…pretty damn good. We’d still be good with Lin, but I think this set up is better overall.

    9. johnlocke

      Ha, knew that one was coming…

      Juany8: According to them, the clear cut 3 favorites for the title are San Antonio, Miami, and Denver. I’ll wait for Denver to win a game before I stop mocking their predictions lol

    10. johnlocke

      Ruru posted a NYMAG article about Woodson a couple days ago…great read and would recommend it, if you haven’t already checked it out. Nice insight into his influences and coaching philosophy

      d-mar:
      I am liking Woody more and more as a coach, and frankly, when they signed him I was kind of meh. He really has this team focused from the start (a trait the pre-Woodson Knicks never showed) and I loved the fact that last night he didn’t call the standard timeout when they fell behind 14-4. And the players said they appreciated it as well. So he demands accountability and is tough on his players, but they respect him and he doesn’t act like a maniac a la Skiles or Stan Van Gundy.

      Perfect coach for this team

    11. johnlocke

      LOL. I think he means unselfish perhaps? What started to irk me about Lin and I was a big fan and wanted him to come back, was that I started to notice traces of selfishness and ‘big-headedness’ on the court that was the opposite of his unselfish, team-first words off the court. The whole contract contradiction of “I wanted to retire a Knick”, but then signing a poison pill contract also speaks to this in my mind. I have conflicting emotional feelings on Lin, although I think he will be a very good player.

      er:
      I was with you until this line, “How could u NOT root for this kid? He is everything the NBA is not, seemingly, and succeeding at doing it.” Can you explain what you mean by he is everything the NBA is not? Do you mean Asian?

    12. er

      I agree, i have problems with him as a player. I just hate how some athletes are put on a pedestal just because they are in the media eye. Even if he meant unselfish, how the hell do you know who is selfish and unselfish in the nba. Sort of the like the Tebow thing, everyone always says what a great kid he is, thats fine and good but what about all of the other “great kids” in the NFL tebow aint the only one. I guess im just fed up with all negs being highlighted while positives are kept under wraps except for certain players.

      johnlocke:
      LOL. I think he means unselfish perhaps? What started to irk me about Lin and I was a big fan and wanted him to come back, was that I started to notice traces of selfishness and ‘big-headedness’ on the court that was the opposite of his unselfish, team-first words off the court. The whole contract contradiction of “I wanted to retire a Knick”, but then signing a poison pill contract also speaks to this in my mind. I have conflicting emotional feelings on Lin, although I think he will be a very good player.

    13. er

      i meant to say no problems lol

      er:
      I agree, i have problems with him as a player. I just hate how some athletes are put on a pedestal just because they are in the media eye.Even if he meant unselfish, how the hell do you know who is selfish and unselfish in the nba. Sort of the like the Tebow thing, everyone always says what a great kid he is, thats fine and good but what about all of the other “great kids” in the NFL tebow aint the only one. I guess im just fed up with all negs being highlighted while positives are kept under wraps except for certain players.

    14. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      As long as we all agree that Kidd will not maintain his .628 WP48, nor Brewer his .357, nor Wallace his (absurd) .321 (he having cracked league average ONCE in his career, as a rookie in ’01), nor Smith his .283.

      This is a team severely outplaying expectations. Unsurprisingly, having a good point guard helps (as it did during the Lin run), but there is absolutely no way that this continues over the course of the season. And of course, confirmation bias will mark the analysis of those losses just as it does these wins.

    15. KnickfaninNJ

      THCJ,

      I am not sure they are severely outplaying expectations. This is better than I expected, and probably better than you expected, but this forum overall was pretty optimistic about the Knicks for this year, probably the most optimistic I ever seen it. The Knicks won at a 45 game clip last year and most people thought they would be better and perhaps much better, which would imply winning at least 50 games. For a 50 game winning type team beating a Phillie team without Bynum and Richardson should not be so surprising. Beating a Miami team at MSG by a lot I agree is surprising, but just being competive with them, not so much. And Wages of Wins predicted good things for them.

      So outplaying expectations, probably. Severely outplaying them, may be not.

    16. flossy

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      As long as we all agree that Kidd will not maintain his .628 WP48, nor Brewer his .357, nor Wallace his (absurd) .321 (he having cracked league average ONCE in his career, as a rookie in ’01), nor Smith his .283.

      This is a team severely outplaying expectations. Unsurprisingly, having a good point guard helps (as it did during the Lin run), but there is absolutely no way that this continues over the course of the season. And of course, confirmation bias will mark the analysis of those losses just as it does these wins.

      Are you suggesting this team might not win 82 games with a 19 point average margin of victory?

    17. mokers

      I think we can all agree that the Knicks won’t make it look this easy all year, but I think they will be competitive in most games they can keep teams under 90. I think it is the team defense in the first three games that is giving people optimism. Add in Camby soon and Shumpert in a few months and we will be able to throw a lot of bodies at people.

      The wild card is Amar’es return. Woodson will have a lot of work to do withe the rotations, but it seems like there will be a good foundation there if STAT wants to put the effort on defense.

    18. stratomatic

      I don’t see how Shumpert is better than Brewer at this stage. Brewer is also a terrific defender and he plays offense within his skill range. He’s WAY more mature as a player. Shumpert is still prone to youthful idiocy when it comes to shot selection etc… Long term Shumpert may develop into a better player, but IMO it would be a mistake to give Brewer’s minutes to Shumpert now.

    19. Frank

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: As long as we all agree that Kidd will not maintain his .628 WP48, nor Brewer his .357, nor Wallace his (absurd) .321 (he having cracked league average ONCE in his career, as a rookie in ’01), nor Smith his .283.

      The amazing thing about this dominant 3 game stretch is that we didn’t even need guys playing out of their minds to this extent.

      We have shot 43 for 95 (45.3%) from 3 point range, which amazingly is only the 5th best % in the league so far according to B-R. Even if we were shooting just 33.6% from 3 like we did as a team in 11-12 and so had shot 32 for 95 (33 fewer points scored), our scoring margin would still be +9 per game. Obviously it’s not that simplistic a calculation (ie. more missed shots might lead to better scoring opportunities for other team etc.), but even so, our shooting way above expectations just means we’re blowing teams out as opposed to just winning comfortably.

      We’ve obviously had a very hot streak in terms of scoring, but the defense is what has really stood out to me. In the 3rd and 4th quarter last night, I swear it looked like Miami’s defense or late 90s NYK defense. And like coaches always say (and I do believe), defense can be consistent and should not be as fickle as shooting hot streaks.

    20. d-mar

      flossy: Are you suggesting this team might not win 82 games with a 19 point average margin of victory?

      LOL, leave it our very own Danny Downer to throw cold water on a very promising start to the season

    21. Gideon Zaga

      Shumpert has a better jumpshot though and you will see it first hand when he gets back. Plus Hopla is also mentoring that shot so yeah u better believe shump comes back better than Brew.

      stratomatic:
      I don’t see how Shumpert is better than Brewer at this stage.Brewer is also a terrific defender and he plays offense within his skill range.He’s WAY more mature as a player. Shumpert is still prone to youthful idiocy when it comes to shot selection etc…Long term Shumpert may develop into a better player, but IMO it would be a mistake to give Brewer’s minutes to Shumpert now.

    22. Frank

      In related news, looks like Shump will not return until January or February. That is definitely the smart way to go — no need to rush when we have so much depth on the team. It’ll give him a chance to work on his game while rehabbing, learn any new schemes. I’d love for him and Brewer to talk so Brewer can show him how to play suffocating D without fouling. Shump last year – 3.7 fouls/36. Brewer career 1.7 fouls/36.

      http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/shump_the_DaRUG2EcruxKNZshnbEGSL?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Knicks

    23. stratomatic

      I wouldn’t count Denver out just yet. They were better than the Knicks last year with more or less the same team they have now except that all those kids are a year older. They also picked up a talented shooter in the draft . The Lakers and OKC got off to a bad start also, but no one is counting them out.

      The Nuggets may not be as good as the Knicks this season (it’s close), but I would change places in a minute if I was a long term investor. This year is going to be the best the Knicks have to offer. Then the decline starts. The Nuggets may not peak for another 3-5 years.

    24. Frank

      Big break for our game on Friday – Shawn Marion out with a sprained L MCL. Looks like maybe Vince or Crowder trying to guard Carmelo. Could be ugly.

    25. Gideon Zaga

      Here we go with the negativity already. Cant even be happy for a week. Knick fans. Hmmm.

      stratomatic:

      This year is going to be the best the Knicks have to offer. Then the decline starts.The Nuggets may not peak for another 3-5 years.

    26. stratomatic

      Gideon Zaga:
      Shumpert has a better jumpshot though and you will see it first hand when he gets back. Plus Hopla is also mentoring that shot so yeah u better believe shump comes back better than Brew.

      The biggest downside in Shumpert’s game last year was his poor shot selection and scoring efficiency. That’s what I mean about Brewer playing within his skill set. He KNOWS what he’s good at and sticks with it. Shumpert shoots everything.

    27. Gideon Zaga

      Who knows maybe the stars maybe aligning, hey if it did for LeBron maybe it will for Melo too.

      Frank:
      Big break for our game on Friday – Shawn Marion out with a sprained L MCL.Looks like maybe Vince or Crowder trying to guard Carmelo. Could be ugly.

    28. Frank

      stratomatic: The biggest downside in Shumpert’s game last year was his poor shot selection and scoring efficiency.That’s what I mean about Brewer playing within his skill set.He KNOWS what he’s good at and sticks with it. Shumpert shoots everything.

      Shumpert played at GaTech for one of the worst coaches in college and was asked to do everything, then came into the NBA and played for one of the least disciplined coaches/systems in the league in D’Antoni and whatever horrific version of SSOL we were trying to run early in the year. If you look at his month by month splits, his shot distribution improved markedly over time — in Jan/Feb (when his TS was 45 and 47%), he was taking about 13 shots/36 – of those he took somewhere between 4-4.5 long J’s (16-23ft) per 36. By the March/April, he was down to about 10 shots/36, and basically all the decrease in shots came from no longer taking long J’s – down to 1.8 long 2’s per 36. He also took slightly more shots at the rim and slightly fewer mid-range (10-15ft) jumpers. Somebody, perhaps the Son of Wood, said something and he listened.

      Brewer? He came into the league and played straightaway for Jerry Sloan, playing alongside Deron Williams. He had to do very little “shot creation” and had a coach that would not put up with random freelancing.

      I love Brewer, and hope that he is Shump’s floor. If he’s the floor, that’s not too bad.

    29. daJudge

      Can the defense continue to be consistent and engaged? I was a huge doubter, but really it has been very good since Woodson took over, so I think so. Also, our rebounding should improve a bit once Camby plays. Stat will hopefully return and return (at least initially) as a five off the bench, with a second unit built around him. He could absolutely thrive in that situation. I was so down and negative, but things have really looked promising. JR looks great BTW. Just a side note, they beat Philly bad and Novack failed to hit a shot and Thomas missed three elbow jumpers that he has made since BC. All in all, I really do not see how this team could have performed any better over the first three games.

    30. SeeWhyDee77

      er:
      I was with you until this line, “How could u NOT root for this kid? He is everything the NBA is not, seemingly, and succeeding at doing it.” Can you explain what you mean by he is everything the NBA is not? Do you mean Asian?

      I could have been more clear lol. Historically Asian players haven’t prospered in the NBA, but that not what made me make that comment. I meant that he’s an overlooked, undrafted player with serious holes in his game from an Ivy League school. Athletically he’s not quite on the average NBA PG level. Even better he is not the seemingly pompous, standoffish kid that most players seem to be..and he has overcome all his limitations and circumstances to become what many more gifted players never become. I apologize for my lack of tact or thoroughness in my comment. I hope I didn’t offend anyone

    31. SeeWhyDee77

      And I forgot to add that Lin is not the self entitled kid most NBA players appear to be as well

    32. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      KnickfaninNJ:
      THCJ,

      I am not sure they are severely outplaying expectations.This is better than I expected, and probably better than you expected,but this forum overall was pretty optimistic about the Knicks for this year, probably the most optimistic I ever seen it. The Knicks won at a 45 game clip last year and most people thought they would be better and perhaps much better, which would imply winning at least 50 games.For a 50 game winning type team beating a Phillie team without Bynum and Richardson should not be so surprising.Beating a Miami team at MSGby a lot I agree is surprising, but just being competive with them, not so much. And Wages of Wins predicted good things for them.

      So outplaying expectations, probably.Severely outplaying them, may be not.

      +19 is not severely outplaying expectations? If they are the 60-win team that ruruland claims them to be, they should expect about a, what, +7.5 margin of victory over the course of the season.

      The ’96 Bulls had a +13.4 margin between offensive and defensive rating. So far, the ’13 Knicks have a +21.7. Do you really think that they’re even on the level of the ’96 Bulls? Because that’s what it would take to be “outplaying expectations,” much less “severely outplaying” them.

    33. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      SeeWhyDee77: Athletically he’s not quite on the average NBA PG level.

      I see no reason to take this comment as anything but conjecture. How does he score his points? Asian smarts?

    34. knicknyk

      SeeWhyDee77: I could have been more clear lol. Historically Asian players haven’t prospered in the NBA, but that not what made me make that comment. I meant that he’s an overlooked, undrafted player with serious holes in his game from an Ivy League school. Athletically he’s not quite on the average NBA PG level. Even better he is not the seemingly pompous, standoffish kid that most players seem to be..and he has overcome all his limitations and circumstances to become what many more gifted players never become. I apologize for my lack of tact or thoroughness in my comment. I hope I didn’t offend anyone

      Where did you get this notion that athletically he isn’t quite at the NBA PG level. What of his play has shown to you that he is unathletic. You are not the first person to say this and it drives me mad when I hear it.

    35. Garson

      Is there a way to track passes by possession? Would love to see the Knicks number compared to the rest of the league and past Knicks teams.

      If there isnt a stat like this… there should be.

    36. johnlocke

      Agreed. The stats actually suggested he was one of the most athletic point guards in the draft coming out of Harvard… (rebound rate, steal rate, etc). This has continued to play out in the D-League and the NBA. I also think Linsanity (albeit understandably) when to his head a little bit…and he admitted as much. I’ll never forget his: “The guys came it close for ME in the 4th quarter” comment in Philly. And the guys included Stat and Melo.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I see no reason to take this comment as anything but conjecture. How does he score his points? Asian smarts?

    37. knicknyk

      johnlocke:
      Agreed. The stats actually suggested he was one of the most athletic point guards in the draft coming out of Harvard… (rebound rate, steal rate, etc). This has continued to play out in the D-League and the NBA. I also think Linsanity (albeit understandably) when to his head a little bit…and he admitted as much. I’ll never forget his: “The guys came it close for ME in the 4th quarter” comment in Philly. And the guys included Stat and Melo.

      What is wrong with that statement? I see nothing wrong with what he said at all. It seems odd to me that Lin isn’t allowed to say things like that where as others are? Or am I misunderstanding you.

    38. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I see no reason to take this comment as anything but conjecture. How does he score his points? Asian smarts?

      How do Steve Nash and Tony Parker? If you can’t see a clear cut difference between someone like Kyle Lowry and someone like Lin athletically, I don’t know what to tell you. PG’s clearly don’t need athleticism to score or pass, although they do need it to defend.

      By the way, even if the Knicks efficiency differential drops by 10 points (a calamitous, 20 game like drop in record) they’ll still clear 55 wins easily. That’s while Tyson Chandler, by any measure one of our top 2 players, has been getting Steve Novak/Jason Kidd at 40 years old minutes. Even when the Knicks experience an inevitable drop off, they should still be a top 3 defensive team, and they have ways to get better. Even Ruruland didn’t predict the Knicks would be the best team ever, if they get 55+ wins and make the ECF I’m sure that would be pretty acceptable

    39. johnlocke

      No issue with him or any athlete saying it…what I think there was though at a certain point was a perception gap. Just my feeling — obviously I don’t know. Lin started out humble and he was constantly praised for being humble and a team player — which he definitely was; however, I think Linsanity went to his head a little bit, and I thought he played selfishly in stretches in the back-half and said things, such as the quote, which were not consistent w/ the perception. And besides Dolan being a moron/sensitive, also think that could have played a role in why he’s no longer on the team…

      knicknyk: What is wrong with that statement? I see nothing wrong with what he said at all. It seems odd to me that Lin isn’t allowed to say things like that where as others are? Or am I misunderstanding you.

    40. knicknyk

      johnlocke: What is the difference between Kyle Lowry & Lin athletically? Please. Are we seriously having this argument now that Lin is unathletic when there are actual BAM scores that prove that he is extremely athletic and the reason why people call him athletic is because of his race??!!

      I think this is nonsense. Him being “selfish” has nothing to do with him not being here. If anything it is because the NY media was way to dedicated to the “Linsanity” story line. It appears that the Knicks are trying to build a specific type of culture & with the media’s obsession with Lin that would have provided to much of a distraction & taken away from that.

      And to be fair just because the media builds you up to be something that doesn’t mean that is what you are. Look at JR Smith for example he has his faults but the way he is portrayed by the media is sometimes overly harsh. Frankly I could careless if Lin was a total asshole. I know absolutely nothing about him (neither do you unless you know him personally) besides what I saw on the court & that is what I liked. Everything else is noise & irrelevant to my analysis of him.

      What is the difference between Kyle Lowry & Lin athletically? Please. Are we seriously having this argument now that Lin is unathletic when there are actual BAM scores that prove that he is extremely athletic and the reason why people call him unathletic is because of his race??!!

    41. johnlocke

      Not sure why you dedicated that diatribe to me…but I stated in my posts above that stats suggest he is athletic. I also said I liked him as a player. I was talking about my emotional affinity for him as a player not being as high as it once was and yes, as a fan emotional affinity for players is something that is relevant. Regarding his ‘big head’ there have been multiple sources who have directly and indirectly referenced their view that they thought Linsanity was getting to his head a bit, including Lin himself.

      knicknyk: I think this is nonsense. Him being “selfish” has nothing to do with him not being here. If anything it is because the NY media was way to dedicated to the “Linsanity” story line. It appears that the Knicks are trying to build a specific type of culture & with the media’s obsession with Lin that would have provided to much of adistraction & taken away from that.

      And to be fair just because the media builds you up to be something that doesn’t mean that is what you are. Look at JR Smith for example he has his faults but the way he is portrayed by the media is sometimes overly harsh. Frankly I could careless if Lin was a total asshole. I know absolutely nothing about him (neither do you unless you know him personally) besides what I saw on the court & that is what I liked. Everything else is noise & irrelevant to my analysis of him.

      What is the difference between Kyle Lowry & Lin athletically? Please. Are we seriously having this argument now that Lin is unathletic when there are actual BAM scores that prove that he is extremely athletic and the reason why people call him unathletic is because of his race??!!

    42. Juany8

      stratomatic:
      I wouldn’t count Denver out just yet.They were better than the Knicks last year with more or less the same team they have now except that all those kids are a year older. They also picked up a talented shooter in the draft .The Lakers and OKC got off to a bad start also, but no one is counting them out.

      The Nuggets may not be as good as the Knicks this season (it’s close), but I would change places in a minute if I was a long term investor.This year is going to be the best the Knicks have to offer. Then the decline starts.The Nuggets may not peak for another 3-5 years.

      You’re ignoring Denver’s actual cap situation. Right now they have Lawson, McGee, Gallinari, and Chandler and Miller locked up longterm. Those 5 players will account for roughly $53 million in cap space each year for the next 2-3 years. Unfortunately they have Andre Iguodala’s contract coming off the season next year, and unless he has a terrible year for Denver there is not way he’s signing for less than $10 million a year. So Iguodala alone will move the Nuggets right up into luxury tax territory, money I’m not sure the Nuggets ownership is willing to spend.

      Even if they are willing to splurge on Iguodala, how the hell do they pay Faried and Koufos? Both players are likely going to get more than the mid-level, and Faried might be getting 8+. That’s without having ANY guarantee that the team as built can even get past the second round this year and avoid becoming the Joe Johnson Atlanta Hawks. The Nuggets’ main appeal so far has been the cap friendly contracts of all their young players, as well as the fact that they haven’t faced a lot of scrutiny, so nobody questioned when they lost in the first round the past 2 years to teams that weren’t legitimate contenders. Joe Johnson’s Hawks were once young and full of potential too….

    43. Juany8

      knicknyk: I think this is nonsense. Him being “selfish” has nothing to do with him not being here. If anything it is because the NY media was way to dedicated to the “Linsanity” story line. It appears that the Knicks are trying to build a specific type of culture & with the media’s obsession with Lin that would have provided to much of adistraction & taken away from that.

      And to be fair just because the media builds you up to be something that doesn’t mean that is what you are. Look at JR Smith for example he has his faults but the way he is portrayed by the media is sometimes overly harsh. Frankly I could careless if Lin was a total asshole. I know absolutely nothing about him (neither do you unless you know him personally) besides what I saw on the court & that is what I liked. Everything else is noise & irrelevant to my analysis of him.

      What is the difference between Kyle Lowry & Lin athletically? Please. Are we seriously having this argument now that Lin is unathletic when there are actual BAM scores that prove that he is extremely athletic and the reason why people call him unathletic is because of his race??!!

      There is a big difference between NBA-level athleticism and elite-NBA athleticism. I’d say Lin is more athletic than guys like Parker and Chris Paul, but not near the Rose-Westbrook-Rondo dominant levels. Obviously, the lack of athleticism compared to those guys hasn’t been a problem for players like Kidd, Nash, and even someone like Calderon so I don’t know why you are getting so worked up over people suggesting he’s not that athletic. The Rockets had 2 PG’s that were more athletic than Lin in Lowry and Dragic (oh look he’s white, rascism!) so I’m not exactly impressed that he rebounds and steals pretty well. So does Jason Kidd at 40 years old lol

    44. knicknyk

      Juany8: There is a big difference between NBA-level athleticism and elite-NBA athleticism. I’d say Lin is more athletic than guys like Parker and Chris Paul, but not near the Rose-Westbrook-Rondo dominant levels. Obviously, the lack of athleticism compared to those guys hasn’t been a problem for players like Kidd, Nash, and even someone like Calderon so I don’t know why you are getting so worked up over people suggesting he’s not that athletic. The Rockets had 2 PG’s that were more athletic than Lin in Lowry and Dragic (oh look he’s white, rascism!) so I’m not exactly impressed that he rebounds and steals pretty well. So does Jason Kidd at 40 years old lol

      I don’t understand why you are talking about rebounds and steals as a sign of athleticism.

      What I was referring to was his draft combine numbers & bam scores etc. From the various articles I read it stated that Lin was one of the top athletes in his draft class. Whether that makes him more athletic than Lowry or Dragic or whatever I can’t say I don’t have access to the tests (unless you do) but if you don’t it is all perception that informs ones opinion.

    45. knicknyk

      johnlocke:
      Not sure why you dedicated that diatribe to me…but I stated in my posts above that stats suggest he is athletic.I also said I liked him as a player. I was talking about my emotional affinity for him as a player not being as high as it once was and yes, as a fan emotional affinity for players is something that is relevant. Regarding his ‘big head’ there have been multiple sources who have directly and indirectly referenced their view that they thought Linsanity was getting to his head a bit, including Lin himself.

      I’m not getting worked up about anything. All of these statements that Lin had a big head came out during FA where there was so much misinformation and the Knicks were embarking on there PR campaign. I took all of it with a grain of salt. Nobody was calling him big headed until he wanted to get paid which I knew from months before would be a big problem considering how the media was building him up to be some saint.

    46. Z-man

      Loving the dialogue here, nice to have you back in the mix, THCJ! Wonder if Z is silently lurking our there, dying to comment but afraid of being a hyocrite. Ted Nelson, are you around? Caleb? Owen?

      I love when JKidd says “It’s just basketball.” Even when the Mecca is filled with 20,000 of the NBA’s most knowledgable fans, its best players, coaches, analysts, etc., one thing is for sure, Kidd has the most sophisticated basketball mind in the building. His impact on this team thus far cannot be overstated.

      Linsanity was mega-exciting for sure, but watching this team just pulverize opponents is jaw-dropping. I agree with THCJ that the numbers are unsustainable (as were Lin’s early numbers) but this team is a beast. Doug Collins didn’t stop at saying things like “they got hot” or “we just didn’t have it.” He was freakin’ impressed. I’m sure the Heat took notice, too.

      Felton reminds me of an innings-eating #3 starter in a pitching rotation. You could say that he is our most indespensible player for the regular season. If he goes down, that would put enormous pressure on Kidd and Prigs to play bigger minutes and to have expanded offensive roles. Felton seems like a guy who can eat up 30 mpg at the point, bang through screens, mix it up in the paint, chug to the hoop enough to open things up for others, use his body on switcches to bigger players, etc., without wearing down. He plays an ugly brand of basketball, reminds me of Derek Harper a bit.

      When evaluating Sheed, consider that he is essentially replacing Jorts. I was really impressed with how he used his length to defend even when he was out of position. Jorts could never have done that.

    47. jon abbey

      the last four times the Knicks started 3-0, they averaged over 55 wins. I realize this is pretty much meaningless, but it feels good to type anyway, especially with too many days between games (although this is great for getting in some practice time, of course).

    48. SeeWhyDee77

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I see no reason to take this comment as anything but conjecture. How does he score his points? Asian smarts?

      Ridiculous. Maybe I should have said typical instead Of average. But we all know he’s not a top athlete. Deron Williams is not a top athlete. But he still scores. Why are u arguing what we all know is true? I never said he was a poor athlete or unathletic. I am just tryina illustrate that he had to climb further up because he has so many knocks on his game. Shit Stockton wasn’t a great athlete but he still got u 16ppg. Melo isn’t noted as a great athlete. C’mon! Do u really wanna suggest that I’m sayin anything but he’s not the most gifted athlete that probably has to work harder to get his points? I throw a compliment about Lin and you’re spinning it as a diss. Am I missing something? Let me re-state since it makes u uncomfortable. Lin is not the type of athlete where it makes it easy for him to score. He has short area quickness but he’s Mario Chalmers athletically. This has nothing to do with him being Asian. Felton is not crazy athletic either. U gonna attack me for saying that?

    49. SeeWhyDee77

      knicknyk: Where did you get this notion that athletically he isn’t quite at the NBA PG level. What of his play has shown to you that he is unathletic. You are not the first person to say this and it drives me mad when I hear it.

      Please see my last post as parts of it apply here as well. I never said Lin was unathletic. Again.maybe I could have been clearer but I was trying to point out that he doesn’t have the same gifts as a lot of NBA PG’s. Therefore his rise to where he is should be appreciated even more. You’re not shocked when a CP3 excels..or even a Ray Felton. You expect those guys to 1) Be given a shot and 2) Do well once they get it. Is that so hard to see? No one thought Lin was gonna EVER be this good but now I get punished for stating he obvious about his game.

    50. Z-man

      knicknyk: I’m not getting worked up about anything. All of these statements that Lin had a big head came out during FA where there was so much misinformation and the Knicks were embarking on there PR campaign. I took all of it with a grain of salt. Nobody was calling him big headed until he wanted to get paid which I knew from months before would be a big problem considering how the media was building him up to be some saint.

      I’ve been the anti-Lin around here of late, but tried not to be unfair about it. Lin is actually very athletic, so to call him otherwise is just not accurate. He’s strong, fast, quick, agile, and can jump. He also is not a primadona by any stretch, so to call him that based on an interpretation of a post-game remark or his signing the best contract out there is also not fair. My criticisms were about his play. I think he is a below-average on-ball defender, a below-average perimeter shooter, a turnover-prone right hand dominant ballhandler, an injury waiting to happen based on his style of play, and a possible sideshow/distraction. All of which considered together with the amount he would cost and the fact that Felton was available for a fraction of the cost was why I had no problem with not matching.

      I would go so far as to say that when Lin is playing well, he is one of the most aesthetically pleasing guys to watch in the league. He has superb body control and a Nash-like elegance to his play. That was as compelling to me as anything during the Linsanity stretch. Even when both are having excellent games, Felton’s game has a much uglier look to it. Just my opinion.

    51. Z-man

      Felton is showing a great level of explosion to the hoop and is finishing pretty well. Wish he could figure out how to get to the FT line more, but maybe it is more conducive to staying healthy if he doesn’t. Whatever, so far so good for Ray-Ray.

    52. daJudge

      “+19 is not severely outplaying expectations? If they are the 60-win team that ruruland claims them to be, they should expect about a, what, +7.5 margin of victory over the course of the season. (THCJ)” Well, they are certainly severely outplaying my own expectations. Of course, we are not talking about a +19 for the whole year, but only an incredibly small sample w/i peculiar circumstances. THCJ–do you think anyone on this site believes that this 3 game point differential is sustainable for even 10 games, let alone a year—of course not. You of anyone on this site understand that the sample is so small that it is not predictive. Even I get that intuitively. Nevertheless, there are signs that if they continue to play according to this script (finally a script), they will no doubt increase their point differential. Do you agree with that premise? By how much, it’s tough to say. Also, just because the small sample is not predictive statistically (I’m trying, really), it doesn’t logically lead to the conclusion that same is irrelevant. That conclusion would simply be stupid. To me, and I think I posted this last year, a mere three point swing in point differential over a season is highly significant in the standings and is predictive. Also, the boys have gotten off to one of their best starts in many, many years. That is not a small sample. If you factor in their play since Coach Woodson took the reins, the numbers are probably highly significant.

    53. knicknyk

      Z-man I don’t care what you think about Lin. The conversation wasn’t about his skill set. Let’s keep this conversation on track. I don’t know why you posted that diatribe to me. The part where you say he is an athlete and not a prima donna post that to Juany and John locke respectively not me. Sigh.

    54. johnlocke

      Lin on whether Linsanity got to his head:

      “If I’m being honest, in some ways, yes,” Lin reportedly said. “I fought it every day. But I think subconsciously it had its effect, everyone catering to you. People were saying only good things for so long that when people said negative stuff, it was like, ‘Whoa, what’s going on?’ “

    55. knicknyk

      johnlocke:
      Lin on whether Linsanity got to his head:

      “If I’m being honest, in some ways, yes,” Lin reportedly said. “I fought it every day. But I think subconsciously it had its effect, everyone catering to you. People were saying only good things for so long that when people said negative stuff, it was like, ‘Whoa, what’s going on?’ ”

      Yeah I remember him saying that. So how does this statement translate to him being a selfish player though? I don’t remember any times where he was selfish. I remember the statement you made reference to after the philly game where he said “I had a terrible game, but the guys kept it close for me”. I don’t see what is wrong with that statement it isn’t like he pretended he had a good game.

      And I have watched all of his games in Houston on LP & I haven’t seen any sign of him being selfish and not wanting to share the ball with Harden or the rest of his teammates. In fact NBA bloggers say one of the reasons why the Harden/Lin backcourt has been playing so well is because both are unselfish/high BBIQ players.

      I guess I have just not heard anybody call him selfish before lol, turnover prone, unathletic, d-league player but never selfish. Just some food for thought.

    56. knicknyk

      Still don’t understand why people care so much about James Dolan’s money. LOL. Baffles my mind the amount of people worried about his cheque book. Maybe the people who care so much are secretly his wife or his accountant. Will never understand that.

    57. Z-man

      knicknyk: Z-man I don’t care what you think about Lin. The conversation wasn’t about his skill set. Let’s keep this conversation on track. I don’t know why you posted that diatribe to me. The part where you say he is an athlete and not a prima donna post that to Juany and John locke respectively not me. Sigh.

      And who gives a fuck what you think? Every time someone posts something even slightly negative about Lin, you have a hissyfit. I was actually trying to agree with you in that criticisms of Lin’s attitude, ego, greed, motivation, as well as his athleticism, are misguided and irrelevant. I was trying to explain that, in contrast, criticisms of his shooting, defense, and durability are justifiable, since they ultimately affect team success. I’ll try to dumb things down for you for you next time.

      And as to next time, what entitles you to be a moderator of the discussion on this site? I’m as tired of your BS as you are of mine, so as long as you keep writing, I’ll keep answering you however I see fit. If you don’t like it, feel free to ignore, respond, or find another blog.

    58. SeeWhyDee77

      johnlocke:
      Agreed. The stats actually suggested he was one of the most athletic point guards in the draft coming out of Harvard… (rebound rate, steal rate, etc). This has continued to play out in the D-League and the NBA.

      Wait..that’s kind of well..I just don’t think stats, advanced or not, can tell u how athletic a guy is. Rebound rate? What about Charles Oakley? Is Kidd’s current play on defense suggesting he’s still very athletic? Or is he simply out working, out thinking and using all his tools? Let me ask everybody this: Who do you consider to be more athletic? Lin or D Will? They’re close to the same size rite? Would anybody here consider Dirk or Bird more athletic than skilled? I think people take athletic ability too serious when it comes to actually being able to play basketball. Anthony Randolph. Sebastian Telfair. Ronnie Fields. Gerald Green. Dejuan Wagner. Smush Parker. Great athletes, bad basketball players. I simply stated that considering everything involved from athletic ability, undrafted Ivy League PG status and other holes in his game, that where Lin is now is remarkable. And i’m not aiming this at u john..just using what u said to further illustrate my point. I don’t understand why folks don’t see what I see. It has been insinuated here that I say Lin doesn’t have great athletic ability because he’s Asian as if i’m using race to drive a point. Could it be the fact that people see an Asian doing what he does and are surprised because he’s Asian? Jeremy Lin is a basketball player to me. That’s it. I’m gonna look at him the same way I look at every other bball player. When Jason Williams was in his prime, I didn’t say ha ha look at that white boy playin like a black boy..y’know? Why is it with Lin people are so sensitive, for lack of a better term?

    59. er

      damn bro you from the uk? i havent seen “cheque” in a while lol

      knicknyk:
      Still don’t understand why people care so much about James Dolan’s money. LOL. Baffles my mind the amount of people worried about his cheque book. Maybe the people who care so much are secretly his wife or his accountant. Will never understand that.

    60. SeeWhyDee77

      lol..I just realized how funny how a player who is no longer a Knick is still a very polarizing figure for Knick fans. Yes Linsanity was awesome. Yes he arguably had one of the greatest 20 or so game run ever. But we argue over this dude like he’s Jesus in hi-tops!! He’s a very nice player who starts for the Rockets. He is not a centerpiece. He has a higher ceiling..but his game is more flawed than Felton’s at this point. Melo is hands down our best player, but even he doesn’t deserve this type of fervor. Serious. Like I said earlier..I love J Lin. I think he saved our season last season. But even I knew it was a matter of time before a defense crushed him. What I appreciated most is he had the balls as a young PG to tell Melo to run the play. It would have been great to watch him grow as a Knick. But as currently constructed..our PG situation is better sans Lin. It fits better. If Melo wasn’t a Knick and Woodson wasn’t our coach, I would think otherwise. All 3 of our PG’s I believe are better defensively (if only slightly in Priggy’s case), and they are better at setting everybody else up. Melo is scoring the easiest 28 ppg he has ever scored as a result. We’re seeing a more efficient and engaged Melo which I’m sure we all agree is a dangerous thing for the rest of the league. One thing people should be sure to remember is, just because u get assists it doesn’t mean u are running the show properly. Stephon Marbury anyone? 20 points and 8 apg are not indicative of the right kind of PG play. Lin’s not Marbury. I’m just saying as good as he has been, he’s not a fit with the player who is and should be our centerpiece. So maybe folks should stop whooning over him for now. The only thing he does consistently better than Felton is score. And do we REALLY need our PG to be a scorer?

    61. SeeWhyDee77

      SeeWhyDee77:
      Lin’s not Marbury. I’m just saying as good as he has been, he’s not a fit with the player who is and should be our centerpiece. So maybe folks should stop whooning over him for now.

      I have no idea how swooning became whooning lol

    62. SeeWhyDee77

      Gotta correct myself. Just realized Melo’s at 26 ppg not 28. Sorry. But it’s still easy for him now.

    63. Brian Cronin

      lol..I just realized how funny how a player who is no longer a Knick is still a very polarizing figure for Knick fans. Yes Linsanity was awesome. Yes he arguably had one of the greatest 20 or so game run ever. But we argue over this dude like he’s Jesus in hi-tops!! He’s a very nice player who starts for the Rockets.

      Huh? You brought Lin up. No one was talking about him until you brought him up. If you think it is silly to argue about him, don’t bring him up.

    64. knicknyk

      Z-man: And who gives a fuck what you think? Every time someone posts something even slightly negative about Lin, you have a hissyfit. I was actually trying to agree with you in that criticisms of Lin’s attitude, ego, greed, motivation, as well as his athleticism, are misguided and irrelevant. I was trying to explain that, in contrast, criticisms of his shooting, defense, and durability are justifiable, since they ultimately affect team success. I’ll try to dumb things down for you for you next time.

      And as to next time, what entitles you to be a moderator of the discussion on this site? I’m as tired of your BS as you are of mine, so as long as you keep writing, I’ll keep answering you however I see fit. If you don’t like it, feel free to ignore, respond, or find another blog.

      LOL. My goodness what is all this. News to me that I am throwing up a hissy fit. Who said I was tired of your BS. Matter fact why are we talking about BS in the first place. I wasn’t even referring specifically to you I see this everywhere on twitter. Still even after season started. People so concerned with Dolans money. And it isn’t even just knick fans it is fans in general who say things like “we spent to much money on DeMar DeRozan player I need to see more”. It is so very funny to me some of the things I hear fans say. Anyway, take it down a notch.

    65. knicknyk

      er:
      damn bro you from the uk? i havent seen “cheque” in a while lol

      LOL. No I am not from the UK I am just an atrocious speller. I type a lot of papers so believe it or not that has actually made my spelling worse. It actually should be check I guess. I really don’t know because like I said I am a terrible speller.

    66. AvonBarksdale

      I don’t think production will fall off, adjust your expectations ladies and gents i believe this will be even better than the most optimistic speculation hinted at….spurs game should be great test. 3 games is a big enough sample size when it’s the whole team involved, HUSTLING. If felton or melo or stat even slack off for one quarter i see woodson playing copeland, pablo, kidd, etc. no more quitting from OUR KNICKS this year.

    67. SeeWhyDee77

      Brian Cronin: Huh? You brought Lin up. No one was talking about him until you brought him up. If you think it is silly to argue about him, don’t bring him up.

      lol rite. I was coming from the point of view where as soon as Lin is mentioned it causes so much tension BC. I gave an honest assessment of Lin and what we have now in comparison to what we would have had with him and a few folks here took it in a direction it was not meant to go in. That’s what was silly. You almost have to bring Lin up when you talk about what we’re getting from the 1 thus far. Especially when you consider that Lin did so much for the team last season and was not retained.

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