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Saturday, September 20, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, May 08 2012)

  • [New York Daily News] Lawrence: Woodson brings winning attitude (Tue, 08 May 2012 07:00:41 GMT)
    As much as everyone wants to celebrate one Knick playoff victory, the one they finally got in Game 4 at the Garden to extend their season at least three more days, so much more is expected from a New York NBA franchise.

  • [New York Daily News] Exclusive: Woodson, Knicks talking deal (Tue, 08 May 2012 07:00:02 GMT)
    Mike Woodson is moving closer to having the interim tag removed from his job title.The Knicks have initiated talks that would keep Woodson as the team’s head coach for the foreseeable future, the Daily News has learned.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks not counting on Lin in Game 5 (Tue, 08 May 2012 03:47:06 GMT)
    Mike Woodson said during a conference call on Monday that he is “not counting on Jeremy Lin” to play in Game 5 against the Miami Heat on Wednesday.

  • [New York Daily News] Baron prognosis painful for Knicks (Tue, 08 May 2012 03:24:12 GMT)
    Baron Davis received the worst possible news on Monday when an MRI revealed that he tore the anterior cruciate and medial collateral ligaments in his right knee in the second half of the Knicks’ Game 4 victory.

  • [New York Daily News] Focusing on LinALL is Dolan-sanity  (Tue, 08 May 2012 02:42:54 GMT)
    Celebratory streamers, normally reserved for champions, not a basketball corpse desperately staving off elimination, had not been swept off the Garden floor Sunday. That was no concern to Al (Wiggie) Trautwig. He did what snake-oil salesmen do best.

  • [New York Times] Spurs 87, Jazz 81: Manu Ginobili Helps Spurs Hold Off Jazz (Tue, 08 May 2012 05:10:07 GMT)
    Manu Ginobili scored 17 points and the Spurs, the No. 1 seed in the Western Conference, finished off a first-round sweep of the Utah Jazz.

  • [New York Times] Spurs Can Recharge While Awaiting Next Opponent (Tue, 08 May 2012 09:09:49 GMT)
    The San Antonio Spurs were feeling good Monday night after sweeping their first-round Western Conference series with the Utah Jazz.

  • [New York Times] Clippers Edge Grizzlies in Overtime to Lead 3-1 (Tue, 08 May 2012 08:15:42 GMT)
    Blake Griffin scored a game-high 30 points to help the Los Angeles Clippers push the Memphis Grizzlies to the brink of elimination with a 101-97 overtime victory in their Western Conference quarter-final on Monday.

  • [New York Times] Streaking Spurs Seal Jazz Series 4-0 (Tue, 08 May 2012 06:33:53 GMT)
    The San Antonio Spurs swept into the second round of the NBA playoffs with an 87-81 win over the Utah Jazz on Monday, erasing bitter memories of last year’s embarrassing first-round exit.

  • [New York Times] CP3 Leads Clips Past Grizz in OT to 3-1 Lead (Tue, 08 May 2012 08:51:49 GMT)
    One day after Chris Paul’s 27th birthday, the All-Star point guard and his Los Angeles Clippers showed they’re growing up splendidly together.

  • [New York Times] Ginobili Ends Slump as Spurs Sweep Jazz 87-81 (Tue, 08 May 2012 03:28:03 GMT)
    Manu Ginobili broke out of his shooting slump with 17 points to lead the San Antonio Spurs to an 87-81 victory over the Utah Jazz on Monday night and a sweep of their first-round Western Conference series.

  • [New York Times] Streaking Spurs Seal Jazz Series 4-0 (Tue, 08 May 2012 03:27:44 GMT)
    The San Antonio Spurs swept into the second round of the NBA playoffs with an 87-81 win over the Utah Jazz on Monday, erasing bitter memories of last year’s embarrassing first-round exit.

  • 78 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, May 08 2012)

    1. d-mar

      I have all the confidence in the world that TD will rise to the occasion and play a flawless backup PG. And Novak will throw down a 360 reverse jam and JR Smith will only take good shots.

    2. KnicksFanInVA

      Someone brought this up on another blog regarding Lin. Wasn’t this similar to Brandon Roy’s situation? Didn’t he try to come back too early from meniscus tear? If so, it caused him to retire!

    3. johnlocke

      Fields will also make consecutive free throws multiple times, Amare will be early on his help D, JR will not only take good shots but make them and Tyson Chandler will catch every single pass thrown to him and finish them with And 1s..

      d-mar:
      I have all the confidence in the world that TD will rise to the occasion and play a flawless backup PG. And Novak will throw down a 360 reverse jam and JR Smith will only take good shots.

    4. ephus

      johnlocke:
      Fields will also make consecutive free throws multiple times, Amare will be early on his help D, JR will not only take good shots but make them and Tyson Chandler will catch every single pass thrown to him and finish them with And 1s..

      Jared Jeffries will make his offensive rebound putbacks and the refs will allow Josh Harrellson to play aggressive defense.

    5. Z

      KnicksFanInVA:
      Someone brought this up on another blog regarding Lin. Wasn’t this similar to Brandon Roy’s situation? Didn’t he try to come back too early from meniscus tear? If so, it caused him to retire!

      Not really. Roy had the same injury, but it was a congenital condition that caused him to retire. (by the end he had no cartilage in either knee, not just the one he partially tore).

    6. SeeWhyDee77

      So Woodson it is. I wonder how long a deal he’ll get. He deserves to lose the interim tag..I guess I shouldn’t judge him by his Atlanta years. He has proven to be a different coach in NY..until Amare went down and I can’t blame him I suppose. I am anxious to see what he can do with a healthy core of Lin, Stat, Melo, and Chandler..with reasonable time to fully implement his style. In spite of all my questions about his style and how Stat fits now..I do believe that Woodson has had a VERY tough task in taking over for D’Antoni. And the rash of injuries made it twice as hard. I’m saying that to say I do think he’s a very good coach..I just hope his offense doesn’t resemble the one he had in Atlanta next season.

      In other coaching queries…where does everyone think SVG and Ewing will end up? Is this the year 33 finally lands a gig?

    7. ephus

      If the Nets are having trouble filling the Barclays Center this summer, I would not be shocked if they hire JVG, SVG or Patrick Ewing as coach. Of course, if the Nets think they still have a chance at Dwight Howard, they will go no place near SVG.

    8. llcoolbp

      Ewing is interviewing for the bobcats job. Might work for his old friend/ arch nemesis, his airiness. That would be odd. But I’d be happy for the big guy since he really wants to coach. If they get Anthony Davis he’d be pretty good choice to help him develop.

      Stan will probably take a year off. Maybe go to tv like his brother. He should have no problem landing somewhere else.

    9. Frank

      Lots of interesting stuff (as usual) in Hahn’s Knicks Fix:
      http://www.msg.com/blogs/alan-hahn/the-knicks-fix–linsanity-2-0-.html

      including possibly playing around with a TC/STAT/Novak/Melo/JR lineup if/when Miami goes big with Miller/Battier/Wade/LBJ/Bosh. I guess Tyson would be on Bosh, STAT on Battier or Miller, JR on Wade, Novak on Battier/Miller, and Melo on LBJ. The JR/Melo backcourt might be our best offensive lineup with 3 bonafide 3 point threats and probably enough shot “creation” between Melo+JR. Have we seen this lineup yet? I don’t recall seeing it.

    10. Doug

      Frank:
      Lots of interesting stuff (as usual) in Hahn’s Knicks Fix:
      http://www.msg.com/blogs/alan-hahn/the-knicks-fix–linsanity-2-0-.html

      including possibly playing around with a TC/STAT/Novak/Melo/JR lineup if/when Miami goes big with Miller/Battier/Wade/LBJ/Bosh.I guess Tyson would be on Bosh, STAT on Battier or Miller, JR on Wade, Novak on Battier/Miller, and Melo on LBJ.The JR/Melo backcourt might be our best offensive lineup with 3 bonafide 3 point threats and probably enough shot “creation” between Melo+JR.Have we seen this lineup yet? I don’t recall seeing it.

      That is an Ultrazord lineup. Overwhelming offensive firepower. I have no idea how it will actually function.

    11. thenamestsam

      So Woodson is in for the longer term. I have to say I have mixed feelings about this. I do think he earned the job with the success of the team since taking over, but I’m worried that had more to do with an inevitable post-Dantoni bounce and less to do with Woodson’s specific credentials.

      I worry for a couple of reasons. For one, the defense was amazing after Woodson was promoted, but I think that had a lot to do with the increased energy around the team that would have happened with any new coach. We saw that energy, and consequently the defensive results, tailing off a lot after the first couple weeks. That reinforces the idea that it was more of a new coach bounce than anything specific Woody was doing, and I don’t think he will be able to get the team to maintain that energy on a regular basis in the regular season, so the gains on defense may not be as large as we initially hoped.

      The second, and larger concern, is his seeming lack of offensive acumen. He has had a lot to deal with in his short time as head coach given the constantly shifting roster situation, but for the most part he hasn’t impressed me on a tactical level offensively. We’ve struggled to make fairly simple in-game adjustments and we’ve been flummoxed by some of what the Heat have thrown at us. I think the biggest challenge for the team going forward is to make the weapons fit together offensively. To figure out a way for Chandler and Amare to coexist. For Lin and Melo to coexist. And not just coexist, but bring out each others strengths and make each other better. That is the key to pushing this team to the level of a true contender, and I’m not sure Woody is the guy. Maybe he can find a strong offensive minded assistant, but I’m worried that his strong preference is to run a simple isolation based offense.

    12. Frank

      btw, a stat that should have us feeling pseudo-ok about having Bibby be the starter ahead of Baron —
      In this series:
      Baron’s TOV% (TO’s per 100 poss) = 34 = OUCH
      Bibby’s TOV% = 14.8

      Bibby’s A/TO ratio for the year = 4
      Baron’s A/TO ratio for the year = 1.8

      Miami for the year – 1st in the league points off turnovers per game

      For at least this series, I think TOV% is very misleading. We don’t want Bibby using ANY possessions unless it is an open 3 – I think TOs/36 is much more useful since he is still the primary ballhandler bringing the ball up and initiating the offense. He has THREE turnovers in 82 minutes (1.3 TOs/36) as opposed to Baron, who has 13 TOs in 97 minutes (4.8 TOs/36).

      It’s actually a perfect matchup for Bibby – Chalmers rarely does anything but shoot open 3s, and if MIA tries to exploit Bibby on defense, well, Chalmers shooting is better than LBJ and Wade taking the shots.

      Again – I feel terrible for Baron and I know he was giving us every last bit of game that he could, but this may actually be a blessing in disguise. The real question is who takes the backup PG minutes. TD makes me very nervous – I’d almost rather go with JR/Fields in the backcourt.

    13. TelegraphedPass

      A lot of attention is deservedly being paid to the stagnant nature of Woody’s offense but in regards to his playcalling we’ve seen some great moments. He and Pop have drawn up some of the strongest crunchtime plays this season.

      Remember the decoy play to free up Novak against the Bulls?

      That one sticks out as phenomenal.

    14. Frank

      TelegraphedPass:
      A lot of attention is deservedly being paid to the stagnant nature of Woody’s offense but in regards to his playcalling we’ve seen some great moments. He and Pop have drawn up some of the strongest crunchtime plays this season.

      Remember the decoy play to free up Novak against the Bulls?

      That one sticks out as phenomenal.

      He had some great out of bounds plays in this past game too – the two that come to mind are Melo’s shot with 0.9 left on the clock, and the dunk attempt by Melo that was blocked by Wade.

      I’m a big fan of Woodson. Remember, he’s had very little time to put all this stuff together considering injuries, lockout-shortened/no-practice season. Assuming he does get the job, I do hope he leaves some of D’Antoni’s stuff in there since obviously Lin did really well with it.

    15. johnlocke

      Bibby definitely has been better in this series — but we can’t play him 30+ minutes. If we did, you may start to see some of those turnover numbers increase. I just don’t see how we throw TD in there at this point in an elimination game against the Heat and expect him to be successful. That JR/Melo/Novak/Amare/TC line-up sounds pretty crazy…but I’d rather have that than TD out there. I think it all depends on how JR is playing. He’ll need to play much smarter basketball if he’s in the lead guard role.

      Frank:
      btw, a stat that should have us feeling pseudo-ok about having Bibby be the starter ahead of Baron —
      In this series:
      Baron’s TOV% (TO’s per 100 poss) = 34 = OUCH
      Bibby’s TOV% = 14.8

      Bibby’s A/TO ratio for the year = 4
      Baron’s A/TO ratio for the year = 1.8

      Miami for the year – 1st in the league points off turnovers per game

      For at least this series, I think TOV% is very misleading. We don’t want Bibby using ANY possessions unless it is an open 3 – I think TOs/36 is much more useful since he is still the primary ballhandler bringing the ball up and initiating the offense.He has THREE turnovers in 82 minutes (1.3 TOs/36) as opposed to Baron, who has 13 TOs in 97 minutes (4.8 TOs/36).

      It’s actually a perfect matchup for Bibby – Chalmers rarely does anything but shoot open 3s, and if MIA tries to exploit Bibby on defense, well, Chalmers shooting is better than LBJ and Wade taking the shots.

      Again – I feel terrible for Baron and I know he was giving us every last bit of game that he could, but this may actually be a blessing in disguise. The real question is who takes the backup PG minutes. TD makes me very nervous – I’d almost rather go with JR/Fields in the backcourt.

    16. KnickfaninNJ

      I remember reading somewhere in this forum a while ago that Woodson’s Atlanta team had much better offensive efficiency and worse defensive efficiency than you might expect from his reputation. The worst part of his Atlanta offense might have been that it was boring to watch, not that it was bad. The flaw that got him fired in Atlanta wasn’t his offense, it was his inability to win playoff games or even to look competitive in some of them. But the Knick’s performance against the Heat in the playoffs this is the same or better than it was in the regular season, despite probably more injuries to the team, which is better than what happened to him in playoffs with Atlanta. So, objectively, he is doing reasonably well in the playoffs this year. So I am hopeful about him as coach for the Knicks next year. Of course I would like team play that’s fun to watch, but stability and execution as a team are what the Knicks really need now.

    17. d-mar

      @12 – I feel the same way. I worry about his creativity and adaptability when the other team throws something new at us. When Miami started fronting Melo on every possession, we kept trying to lob the ball over the front, and then Miami would immediately send a 2nd defender over and our offense was a mess. Also, earlier in his tenure, an opponent threw a zone at us, and we were totally unprepared and lost the game.

      I think Woodson is not a bad coach, but he’s far from top tier.

    18. Frank

      The other thing we desperately need is to get our 3 point game on track. Melo and JR are shooting 15 and 21% on 3 pointers respectively (7 for 37 overall), which is roughly half their career shooting percentages. Some of these have been end-of-clock contested shots, but there have been a lot of wide open misses too. This series might be totally different if they were shooting, say, 12 for 37.

    19. johnlocke

      It’s going to get worse next year…as JR and Novak are most likely gone…and not a lot of knock-down 3 pt shooters at what we can afford on the market. This is a HUGE problem going forward. We were already near the bottom of the league for 3pt shooting % and take so many 3s per game. You get a lot of those shots in a Melo iso offense…

      Frank:
      The other thing we desperately need is to get our 3 point game on track.Melo and JR are shooting 15 and 21% on 3 pointers respectively (7 for 37 overall), which is roughly half their career shooting percentages. Some of these have been end-of-clock contested shots, but there have been a lot of wide open misses too.This series might be totally different if they were shooting, say, 12 for 37.

    20. Frank

      Woodson apparently just said that Lin is OUT for the series, even if it goes 7 games. Doctors and Lin uncomfortable with health of the knee (via Al Iannazzone).

      Oh well. There goes Linsanity 2.0.

    21. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Frank:
      Woodson apparently just said that Lin is OUT for the series, even if it goes 7 games.Doctors and Lin uncomfortable with health of the knee (via Al Iannazzone).

      Oh well. There goes Linsanity 2.0.

      A huge sigh of relief on my end. They’re not going to win the series, with or without him. It’s a knee injury, for f__’s sake. Why would they rush him back?

    22. Frank

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: A huge sigh of relief on my end. They’re not going to win the series, with or without him. It’s a knee injury, for f__’s sake. Why would they rush him back?

      For once we agree. Would’ve been epic to see him play in the Garden in game 6 though.

    23. johnlocke

      We still have Corps-anity!

      Frank: For once we agree. Would’ve been epic to see him play in the Garden in game 6 though.

    24. Mulligan

      What do folks think of trying out a Jorts – Melo – Novak – JR -Bibby lineup? Or would that be too weak defensively? Maybe Chandler – Jorts – Melo – Novak – JR/Bibs? Something to add an extra 3 point threat in Jorts to possibly open up the court and get Novak some better looks? Just for little stretches. Has this lineup been played out there? Where would I go to find out?

    25. Frank O.

      I too am pleased the Knicks are thinking big picture with Lin. Not only is he important to the team on the court, but the franchise will benefit financially from this guy being around. Further, Lin also needs to think about his prospects and another injury would kill his earning potential.
      Further, Lin had trouble against the Heat when his legs were largely healthy. The Heat bring an athleticism that would challenge Lin immensely.
      Either way, this game will be intense and the Knicks will need to keep it close, or else we may be looking at another blow out. The Knicks simply aren’t the same team on the road, although survival is a huge incentive and this team plays well with back pressed to the wall.
      It might be the biggest upset of the year should the Knicks win this next game.

      Last thing: The number and types of injuries we are seeing this year, on the Knicks and elsewhere, is a huge indictment of the NBA management and their desire for this truncated season, and also their desire to add more games.
      Clearly, the wear and tear of typical NBA play is too great for many of these guys…and should they decided to go with a longer season, you are going to see a drop in intensity and effort day-to-day as players take into account the wear and tear that would come from a longer season.

    26. Nick C.

      I dont know about Jorts opening anything up. He barely shot any threes after he came back and made even less, skewing the stats with a 2/3 in the final game v. Charlotte. Maybe the threes was a D’Antoni thing rather than his own style so to speak because he rarely seems to venture far from the paint.

    27. TelegraphedPass

      Nick C.: I dont know about Jorts opening anything up. He barely shot any threes after he came back and made even less, skewing the stats with a 2/3 in the final game v. Charlotte. Maybe the threes was a D’Antoni thing rather than his own style so to speak because he rarely seems to venture far from the paint.

      No, I remember Jorts impressed the Knicks’ staff at his pre-draft workouts with his perimeter shooting. That’s a big part of the reason we drafted him. He rarely took jumpers while playing for Kentucky, so many teams didn’t know about his perimeter game, but obviously D’Antoni was interested in a big who could knock down NBA 3s consistently.

      My point is, Jorts’ shooting wasn’t simply a product of DA’s schemes, though they certainly helped. He had great touch. Remember, he was recovering from a broken hand so some shooting inconsistency was only to be expected.

    28. ephus

      During game 4, the Heat did not respect Jorts at the corner 3. They had whoever was playing him keep one foot in the lane, even when the ball was at the top of the key. In other words, if Woodson puts Jorts in the game, he is not going to stretch the defense unless he hits multiple 3 pointers. Plus, if you have Jorts in the game and put him in a corner, he gives you no offensive rebounding.

      I think Woodson will have to play Jorts some, but he is more likely to have a Chandler/Jeffries role — setting picks and hitting the offensive boards — than a stretch 4 role.

    29. stratomatic

      If Woodson gets the job we are going to be arguing about the merits of getting an offensive assistant by the middle of next year. Not that it matters. Soon after that we’ll be arguing about how to break up the team and rebuild when Amare’s contract can’t be moved and the owner is too stupid to trade Melo.

    30. stratomatic

      Woodson was let not let go in Atlanta because because of the team’s inability to get further in the playoffs. He was let go because ownership felt his ISO heavy offense wasn’t creative enough to get the job done in the playoffs and needed a fresh look.

    31. Brian Cronin

      For what it is worth, Woodson denies that he has had any contact with the Knicks regarding an extension. Denials should always be taken with a grain of salt, but here, I dunno why he would deny the story.

    32. TelegraphedPass

      Still insane to me that the best offer NO got for Chris Paul was a pick and Eric Gordon. Mind-boggling. I would have been absolutely in for a Melo-CP swap.

      At this point, I’m not sure how many realistic Melo deals I would be able to support. Deron Williams, I suppose.

      It seems Woody is committed to making Melo and STAT figure out how to fuse their offenses together. Short of the Potara earrings I’m not sure how likely that is, but Melo is certainly capable of making it work. But that still doesn’t fix the STAT+Chandler problem. Sigh.

    33. stratomatic

      A LOT of players shot way below their norms from beyond the arc this year. In the beginning of the season it made a lot of sense because of the shortened camp. But I would have guessed that most of them would have gotten a lot sharper as the season wore on. I have since been told that that’s not necessarily the case. A lot of best 3 point shooters work on their shot at practice and on off days but there have been way fewer of those this year where they could just put up a 1000 shots if they wanted to work on their game.

    34. KnickfaninNJ

      stratomatic:
      Woodson was let not let go in Atlanta because because of the team’s inability to get further in the playoffs. He was let go because ownership felt his ISO heavy offense wasn’t creative enough to get the job done in the playoffs and needed a fresh look.

      The two things you mention sound basically the same. That is, you seem to be saying that not only did Atlanta not do well in the playoffs, but that management concluded Woodson’s coaching style was to blame. So they fired him. I don’t disagree with this.

    35. d-mar

      TelegraphedPass:
      Still insane to me that the best offer NO got for Chris Paul was a pick and Eric Gordon. Mind-boggling. I would have been absolutely in for a Melo-CP swap.

      At this point, I’m not sure how many realistic Melo deals I would be able to support. Deron Williams, I suppose.

      It seems Woody is committed to making Melo and STAT figure out how to fuse their offenses together. Short of the Potara earrings I’m not sure how likely that is, but Melo is certainly capable of making it work. But that still doesn’t fix the STAT+Chandler problem. Sigh.

      That Melo for D-Will trade is an intriguing idea – it solves the Nets problem of having a marquee star signed long term to open Brooklyn, and we get a star PG in return that we could extend. Of course, then what happens to Lin?

    36. stratomatic

      TelegraphedPass:
      Still insane to me that the best offer NO got for Chris Paul was a pick and Eric Gordon. Mind-boggling. I would have been absolutely in for a Melo-CP swap.

      At this point, I’m not sure how many realistic Melo deals I would be able to support. Deron Williams, I suppose.

      It seems Woody is committed to making Melo and STAT figure out how to fuse their offenses together. Short of the Potara earrings I’m not sure how likely that is, but Melo is certainly capable of making it work. But that still doesn’t fix the STAT+Chandler problem. Sigh.

      There is a huge difference between getting Melo and Stat to work together and the combination making sense.

      When you combine players the goal is to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.

      For example: Nash/Amare

      Amare benefited from having a great PG get him the ball in great spots so he could finish at the rim or get open looks near the foul line. That’s partly why his TS% was higher in those days.

      Nash benefited from having one of the most athletic and best P&R finishers in the league to draw attention and get other players open so he could pile up assists.

      There are loads of combinations like that where 1 + 1 = 2.25.

      Amare and Melo are both #1 scorers. Neither is a very good playmaker (or willing enough in Melo’s case). So they don’t benefit much from each other. In fact, they reduce each other’s value because the primary attribute of each is their scoring ability and they wind up taking fewer shots each than they would have as the #1 scorer combined with a #2 with other great qualities.

      1 + 1 = 1.75

      Amare + CP3 + Chandler would absolute crush Amare + Melo + Chandler and not just because CP3 is better player than Melo.

      It’s a WAY better fit for both Amare and Chandler to have a great PG with them. Melo not so much because he scores off the…

    37. stratomatic

      KnickfaninNJ: The two things you mention sound basically the same. That is, you seem to be saying that not only did Atlanta not do well in the playoffs, but that management concluded Woodson’s coaching style was to blame.So they fired him. I don’t disagree with this.

      To clarify my point, had Atlanta lost and ownership had a lot of confidence in Woodson coaching on offense, he would not have been fired. They essentially felt his offensive schemes were a huge part of the problem. Hence he got fired.

    38. ephus

      Brian Cronin:
      For what it is worth, Woodson denies that he has had any contact with the Knicks regarding an extension. Denials should always be taken with a grain of salt, but here, I dunno why he would deny the story.

      The rumors and the denial can all be true, if the Knicks are talking with Woodson’s agent.

    39. Brian Cronin

      What’s weird about the Hawks situation is that they went in house for Woodson’s replacement (forever severing the long relationship between Woodson and Larry Drew, as Drew obviously talked down his old friend to the owners). So you have problems with your offense, so you go to a guy who works…for your offense?! Drew was the point guard coach! I mean, I suppose you could argue that Drew is responsible for Jeff Teague making “the leap” this year, but I think that’s a hard argument to make when Drew benched Teague for much of the 2010-11 season. If anything, Drew’s offense when it came to the playoffs looked just like Woody’s offense. Iso-Joe, Iso-Jamal, Iso-Josh Smith. Even now, against the Celtics, it is Iso-Joe, Iso-T-Mac, Iso-Josh.

    40. TelegraphedPass

      stratomatic, let’s see if I’ve got this right:

      So STAT and Melo can’t work because you can’t have two “#1 scorers” together who aren’t great playmakers. Westbrook and Durant are a terrible idea then. I see. That Ray Allen and KG together was probably an awful plan too.

      Between STAT and Melo, Melo is the less willing playmaker? Oh

      Melo and STAT have problems together, that myself and ruru and Owen and others have gone into, but your explanation of it isn’t accurate.

    41. Brian Cronin

      Looking for news about Woodson, it amused me to see Brandon Knight tweeting news links about the Knicks coaching debate (because Knight played for John Calipari, one of the possible candidates for the job). I like to see players actually engaged in NBA news.

      Of course, today just had to have a story about Charles Woodson break (the Packers want him to play safety and he’s willing to do so), so a “Woodson” search is not suitably narrow! :)

    42. BigBlueAL

      I always thought Woodson got fired from Atlanta because alot of the players didnt like him anymore including mainly Josh Smith. Isnt that the reason they hired Drew because he was the well-liked assistant??

    43. Brian Cronin

      It was a combination of the two, but mostly the offense.

      Woodson was having problems with the players but he was also having run-ins with the GM and the owners (always smart to get into arguments with your boss) but Drew was also telling ownership what he felt Woodson was doing wrong and how he could improve on it (which is why Woodson now hates him and they haven’t spoken since).

      A final part of the situation (not having to do with Woodson’s firing so much as Drew’s hiring) was that the Hawks owners are cheap and Drew came cheap. I believe he is the lowest paid coach in the NBA.

    44. BigBlueAL

      Brian Cronin:
      It was a combination of the two, but mostly the offense.

      Woodson was having problems with the players but he was also having run-ins with the GM and the owners (always smart to get into arguments with your boss) but Drew was also telling ownership what he felt Woodson was doing wrong and how he could improve on it (which is why Woodson now hates him and they haven’t spoken since).

      A final part of the situation (not having to do with Woodson’s firing so much as Drew’s hiring) was that the Hawks owners are cheap and Drew came cheap. I believe he is the lowest paid coach in the NBA.

      Funny part is the Hawks were 2nd in offensive efficiency in Woodson’s last season and have been 20th and 16th under Drew.

    45. KnickfaninNJ

      I looked up Woodson’s record in 2009-2010, his last season with the Hawks. His team went 54-28 and was 2nd of 30 teams in offensive rating (111.9) and 13th of 30 teams in defensive rating (106.7) per basketballreference.com. They won their first round against Milwaukee, averaging 94 points a game (not low for playoff basketball), but then were blown out by Orlando in four straight playoff games, on average scoring 82 points per game and giving up more than 107 a game to Orlando. He was fired after that.

      Management may have claimed or even thought that Woodson’s offensive schemes were bad (and I do remember them as boring), but I am convinced the real reason he was fired is that his bosses were embarrassed by the debacle with Orlando. There really isn’t much statistical support for the view that his offense was at fault for the loss to Orlando. It’s possible score 82 points a game in the playoffs and still look competitive (although I agree, you are unlikely to win). But there isn’t anyway you can give up 107 a game and not look bad. So if anything, Woodson’s defensive schemes were at fault, rather than his offensive ones. And the regular season offensive and defensive ratings support this.

    46. Brian Cronin

      That’s always been the case with Woodson. His defenses on the Hawks were overrated and his offense underrated. You might remember the articles here about how it was weird to see Woodson hired as a defensive specialist when his Hawks were not known for their defense.

      And yeah, Al, it is absolutely hilarious that Drew has done so much worse on offense. Drew really amazes me. The guy never seems to have a clue. At least he’s smart enough to make sure all the stars on the team like him.

    47. Brian Cronin

      I hope Woodson has some sort of handshake agreement with Smith that Smith will return if Woodson comes back. Because boy, Woodson sure does love him some JR Smith. And it would seem weird for a guy to give so much attention to a player who won’t be here next year. So here’s hoping Woody knows something we don’t.

    48. Frank

      @47 – that Orlando team that blew them out was also the same Orlando team that nearly won the championship the year before, and that lost in a good series to the big 3 Celtics in the conference finals in 09-10 after winning 59 games in the regular season. Sure, you never want to get blown out, but Orlando was just a better team with better players.

      I don’t know – it’s hard to find good coaches that really make a difference. As much as I can’t stand Phil Jackson and his smarminess, I guess it’d be hard to argue if he came. But to not hire a guy because he hasn’t been able to take a team to the next level? Doc Rivers was the worst coach in the world before Garnett and Ray Allen got gifted to him. Rick Carlisle was a guy that couldn’t repeat the success of Larry Brown in Detroit and was fired because of it until he got Dirk, Tyson, and co. I don’t know – unless you get Greg Popovitch or Phil Jackson, I’m not sure you can say that anyone you get is going to be better than Woodson.

    49. Frank

      One thing I will say about Woodson – why would you spill the beans about Lin’s availability today? At least wait to make the definitive announcement until gameday to make Spoelstra and co. spend some of their prep time on the possibility that Lin might play.

    50. Brian Cronin

      Doc Rivers was the worst coach in the world before Garnett and Ray Allen got gifted to him.

      He won a Coach of the Year Award his first year as a coach.

      Rick Carlisle was a guy that couldn’t repeat the success of Larry Brown in Detroit and was fired because of it until he got Dirk, Tyson, and co.

      Also won Coach of the Year in his first year as a coach, and was hired by the Pacers right after the Pistons let him go. Then he got hired by the Mavericks a year after the Pacers let him go. Carlisle has always been a well=respected coach, just not as well-respected as 2003 Larry Brown (two years removed from also winning the Coach of the Year award and taking an iffy Sixers team to the NBA Finals).

      I’m not disputing your point overall (I, too, think Woody should get a chance if Jackson isn’t coming), but I don’t think your examples are great ones.

    51. johnlocke

      I’m sure Lin is feeling a lot of pressure to play and fielding a ton of questions, he just wanted to take some of that pressure off of him. His statement also doesn’t preclude Lin actually coming back if fully healthy, in shape, etc for game 6 or 7 lol

      Frank:
      One thing I will say about Woodson – why would you spill the beans about Lin’s availability today?At least wait to make the definitive announcement until gameday to make Spoelstra and co. spend some of their prep time on the possibility that Lin might play.

    52. Frank

      Brian Cronin: He won a Coach of the Year Award his first year as a coach.

      Doc won for a 41-41 team — then did not improve the team the next 4 seasons (44 wins was his high-water mark) and then was fired after a 1-10 start. In Boston, his record was worse every year he was there (45–>33–>24 wins) until the big 3 showed up.

      Carlisle basically had the same resume as Woodson – can get a team to the 2nd round of the playoffs and then lost, and it looked even worse when Larry Brown took the same team and won a championship with it! (with Woodson on his staff).

      I get your point, but my overall point is that an inability to get past the 2nd round or whatever round short of a ring only matters until it doesn’t. Same with coaches as it is for players (Dirk).

    53. TelegraphedPass

      Frank: I get your point, but my overall point is that an inability to get past the 2nd round or whatever round short of a ring only matters until it doesn’t. Same with coaches as it is for players (Dirk).

      This. Ultimately, postseason success comes down to health and matchups. Sometimes great players and coaches just aren’t fortunate enough for the chips to fall their way. Everyone has their flaws, but I don’t think it’s at all accurate to say there is a single concrete mentality or image of a champion. A lot of that is revisionist.

      Before the 2011 Playoffs, Pau Gasol was considered the best overall PF in the league by many and Dirk was “too soft” to win. Two months later everything flipped.

    54. Brian Cronin

      . His statement also doesn’t preclude Lin actually coming back if fully healthy, in shape, etc for game 6 or 7

      Woodson said today, ”Speaking with medical and Jeremy, he will not play in this series,”

    55. Brian Cronin

      Doc won for a 41-41 team — then did not improve the team the next 4 seasons (44 wins was his high-water mark) and then was fired after a 1-10 start. In Boston, his record was worse every year he was there (45–>33–>24 wins) until the big 3 showed up.

      Carlisle basically had the same resume as Woodson – can get a team to the 2nd round of the playoffs and then lost, and it looked even worse when Larry Brown took the same team and won a championship with it! (with Woodson on his staff).

      I get your point, but my overall point is that an inability to get past the 2nd round or whatever round short of a ring only matters until it doesn’t. Same with coaches as it is for players (Dirk).

      Oh yeah, judging a coach just by that is silly, agreed. Same as it is silly for judging players by it.

    56. BigBlueAL

      Still amazes me that Don Nelson never once coached a team to the NBA Finals. All those wins and some pretty good teams but not once could he make it to the NBA Finals.

    57. ephus

      BigBlueAL:
      Still amazes me that Don Nelson never once coached a team to the NBA Finals.All those wins and some pretty good teams but not once could he make it to the NBA Finals.

      Looking back at Nelson’s teams, I do not see any that should have achieved more than they did. The 80s Bucks were not as talented as either the Celtics or the Sixers. The late 80s Warriors were not as talented as the Lakers. Nelson should have been able to do something with the Knicks, but he lost Ewing when he tried to install Anthony Mason as the point forward. Nelson’s 2002 Dallas team was talented, but that was the final good year for Shaq/Kobe.

    58. cypes

      1st of all LETS GO KNICKS!hey guys i gotta let all you know that this site is a blessing for me as a knick fan i found this site at the start of the season im a newyorker livin in va ive been following the knicks since 82’83 this season was a blast we had high expectations when the season started but to be honest being the knick fan that i am i really never believed we could win wit no dee-fense in the past decade we have had a alot of names n alot of changesnever keepn our team together for long this time i truly believe we have the core of a real good team lin/tyson/stat/melo/shump/ is a solid talented core we need to at least try to give woody at least 3 years wit training camp and c what we got we can only get better THE SKY IS THE LIMIT

    59. BigBlueAL

      ephus: Looking back at Nelson’s teams, I do not see any that should have achieved more than they did.The 80s Bucks were not as talented as either the Celtics or the Sixers.The late 80s Warriors were not as talented as the Lakers.Nelson should have been able to do something with the Knicks, but he lost Ewing when he tried to install Anthony Mason as the point forward.Nelson’s 2002 Dallas team was talented, but that was the final good year for Shaq/Kobe.

      I dont remember his Buck teams at all but they won 50 games for 7 straight seasons including winning 60, 59 and 57 games during that stretch. But yeah cant blame them for not getting past the 76ers or Celtics during that time (one of those 2 teams eliminated them every year during that stretch).

    60. ephus

      Those teams were led by Marques Johnson, Sidney Moncrief and Bob Lanier. Their problem was that their best players were not as good as the best players on the Sixers (Erving and pre-injury Andrew Toney) or the Celtics (Bird, Parrish, McHale and Dennis Johnson).

    61. ephus

      And, on the Sixers after 1982, Moses Malone. I’m telling you, if Andrew Toney had not gotten hurt, the 1980s Sixers would be remembered as a better team than the 1980s Celtics. Of course, with a healthy Toney, they would have had Cheeks/Toney/Erving/Barkley/Malone and never made the trade for Jeff Ruland. (Ruru – that’s your cue)

    62. chrisk06811

      If we are worried about Woodson coaching O, we should hire an offensive minded assistant. What is Dan D’Antoni doing these days?

      I wish I could take credit for this, but Carton and Boomer beat me to the fact that Woodson sounds exactly like Tone Loc.

    63. TelegraphedPass

      “I don’t feel like I have a deficiency that’s bad. Anything I do, I just do it with confidence.” -Iman Shumpert

      Bless you, Shump. I’ll love you forever. Probably. Never leave me tho.

    64. jon abbey

      Frank:
      One thing I will say about Woodson – why would you spill the beans about Lin’s availability today?At least wait to make the definitive announcement until gameday to make Spoelstra and co. spend some of their prep time on the possibility that Lin might play.

      so you mean watching film of the last time he played there and collectively giggling?

    65. nicos

      ephus:
      And, on the Sixers after 1982, Moses Malone.I’m telling you, if Andrew Toney had not gotten hurt, the 1980s Sixers would be remembered as a better team than the 1980s Celtics.Of course, with a healthy Toney, they would have had Cheeks/Toney/Erving/Barkley/Malone and never made the trade for Jeff Ruland.(Ruru – that’s your cue)

      I always thought that Fo, Fo, Fo team in ’83 was as good (if not better) than the more celebrated ’86 Celtics or ’87 Lakers.

    66. ephus

      nicos: I always thought that Fo, Fo, Fo team in ’83 was as good (if not better) than the more celebrated ’86 Celtics or ’87 Lakers.

      +1. From 1980 – 1983, the Sixers defeated the Celtics three out of four years and advanced to the Finals. While its true that Larry Bird raised his game to another level from 84-86, if Toney stays healthy, the Sixers would have been a strong contender.

    67. ephus

      2FOR18:
      Is Woodson a CAA guy?

      No, he is repped by Keith Glass, who has his own boutique agency, Off The Glass.

    68. formido

      Presumably. Probably like they were giggling watching footage of Melo earlier in this series.

      jon abbey: so you mean watching film of the last time he played there and collectively giggling?

    69. er

      lol wow what a comeback

      formido:
      Presumably. Probably like they were giggling watching footage of Melo earlier in this series.

    70. er

      he did have 30 in game 2 just sayin

      formido:
      Presumably. Probably like they were giggling watching footage of Melo earlier in this series.

    71. Brian Cronin

      Presumably. Probably like they were giggling watching footage of Melo earlier in this series.

      Again, this is why I am thrilled that we have no ardent STAT defenders here. It is bad enough that a post making fun of Lin is somehow countered with a post making fun of Melo (what possible connection is there there? It is not even like Jon is some big Melo defender), imagine if every STAT joke led to a Lin insult or a Melo insult! It’d be insane.

    72. er

      i agree its boring me…the joy at bashing melo is old, the lin comment was obviously tongue n cheek

      Brian Cronin: Again, this is why I am thrilled that we have no ardent STAT defenders here. It is bad enough that a post making fun of Lin is somehow countered with a post making fun of Melo (what possible connection is there there? It is not even like Jon is some big Melo defender), imagine if every STAT joke led to a Lin insult or a Melo insult! It’d be insane.

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