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Wednesday, September 3, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, May 01 2012)

  • [New York Daily News] Amar’e punches glass after Knicks loss (Tue, 01 May 2012 09:07:51 GMT)
    It wasn’t just the Heat, it was the stupidity. Amar’e Stoudemire may have literally punched the Miami Heat’s ticket to the second round after the Knicks’ forward suffered a lacerated left hand during a postgame tirade.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo licks wounds, exits Miami smiling (Tue, 01 May 2012 07:57:38 GMT)
    The last Knick to leave the blood-stained locker room Monday night was Carmelo Anthony. Fresh off a 30-point effort in a Game 2 loss that resulted in forward Amar’e Stoudemire lacerating his left hand afterward, Anthony departed behind dark sunglasses and a smile.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ hopes cut down after Amar’e tantrum (Tue, 01 May 2012 07:21:41 GMT)
    On the black, red and gray-striped carpeting in the Knicks’ locker room, a series of large red dots, maybe 30 in all and the size of pennies, led from the back door of the dressing room to an area not far from Amar’e Stoudemire’s locker.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks-Rangers conflict? Grab your remote control! (Tue, 01 May 2012 05:53:52 GMT)
    Stop whining. So, Monday night’s Knicks-Heat Game 2 on MSG started at 7, a half-hour earlier than the second game of Caps-Rangers on NBC Sports Network. Saturday afternoon was the same scenario, with hockey and hoops basically going head-to-head.

  • [New York Times] Game 2: Heat 104, Knicks 94: N.B.A. Playoffs — Knicks Lose Game 2 to Heat (Tue, 01 May 2012 05:31:37 GMT)
    LeBron James, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh combined for 65 points, and the Heat coasted to another easy victory and a 2-0 lead in their first-round playoff series.

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: For Knicks’ Mike Woodson, the Test Keeps Getting Tougher (Tue, 01 May 2012 07:19:14 GMT)
    Mike Woodson, the Knicks’ interim coach, now has to deal with Amar’e Stoudemire’s newly lacerated hand in addition to a 2-0 deficit against the Heat.

  • [New York Times] In Brooklyn, Finding Hope in the Hapless Nets (Tue, 01 May 2012 06:03:15 GMT)
    As the new colors and logo for the Brooklyn Nets were revealed, some sports fans in the borough were optimistic that the team could overcome its futile history.

  • [New York Times] For Amir Garrett, Basketball for St. John’s and Baseball With Reds (Tue, 01 May 2012 06:07:08 GMT)
    Amir Garrett is a 6-foot-6 freshman who played forward for the St. John’s basketball team and can also throw a fastball upward of 90 miles per hour.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Playoffs: Dwyane Wade Takes Advantage of Chances (Tue, 01 May 2012 05:10:56 GMT)
    Dwyane Wade, who figured the Knicks’ focus on LeBron James would leave openings for him, scored 25 points for the Heat.

  • [New York Times] Roundup: N.B.A. Playoffs: Celtics’ Rondo Suspended for Game 2 (Tue, 01 May 2012 05:09:07 GMT)
    David West, Danny Granger and George Hill led Indiana in scoring, and the Pacers beat the Magic on Monday to tie their first-round series at 1-1.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Roll to 2-0 Lead Over Mavericks (Tue, 01 May 2012 06:12:59 GMT)
    Oklahoma City Thunder dealt Dallas another heartbreaking loss in the NBA playoffs on Monday to take a 2-0 lead over last season’s champions in a series that is threatening to boil over.

  • [New York Times] Champion Mavs Head Home, Trailing Thunder 2-0 (Tue, 01 May 2012 07:31:07 GMT)
    Last postseason, Dirk Nowitzki and the Dallas Mavericks rode a wave of late-game comebacks to win the franchise’s first NBA title.

  • [New York Times] Knicks’ Stoudemire Cuts Hand After Loss (Tue, 01 May 2012 04:12:56 GMT)
    New York Knicks forward Amar’e Stoudemire suffered a badly cut hand from an incident following his team’s 104-94 defeat to the Miami Heat in the NBA playoffs on Monday and could miss time in the remainder of the series.

  • [New York Times] Knicks’ Stoudemire Cuts Up His Hand After Loss (Tue, 01 May 2012 03:03:41 GMT)
    New York Knicks forward Amar’e Stoudemire suffered a badly cut hand after his team’s 104-94 defeat to the Miami Heat in the NBA Eastern Conference playoffs on Monday.

  • [New York Times] Pacers Defeat Magic 93-78, Even Series 1-1 (Tue, 01 May 2012 02:24:52 GMT)
    David West had 18 points and 11 rebounds to help the Indiana Pacers beat the Orlando Magic 93-78 on Monday night and even the Eastern Conference first-round series at one game apiece.

  • [New York Times] Miami Turn the Heat Up on Knicks (Tue, 01 May 2012 03:58:25 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony scored 30 points for the New York Knicks but his team still came up short as Miami’s ‘Big Three’ took charge to lead the Heat to a convincing 104-94 victory in the NBA playoffs on Monday.

  • [New York Times] Heat 104, Knicks 94: Wade’s 25 Carries Heat Past Knicks (Tue, 01 May 2012 04:27:45 GMT)
    Dwyane Wade scored 25 points, Chris Bosh added 21 and Miami beat the Knicks on Monday for their N.B.A.-record-tying 12th straight postseason loss.

  • [New York Times] U.S. Men’s Team Drawn Into Tougher Olympic Pool (Tue, 01 May 2012 05:45:45 GMT)
    The United States will play Argentina, France and Tunisia in the first round of the Olympic men’s basketball tournament in London.

  • [New York Times] Knicks-Heat Photo Replay: Game 2 (Tue, 01 May 2012 04:54:46 GMT)
    Action from Miami’s 104-94 victory over the Knicks at American Airlines Arena, as the Heat took a 2-0 series lead.

  • 143 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, May 01 2012)

    1. Matt Smith

      Whoa, looking over last night’s thread, I almost forgot how quick everyone is to overreact as a Knicks fan (myself included).

      Can’t help but thinking a lot has to do with Woodson. We know what we’re getting from Amare. I used to think he doesn’t try on D, but now I’m convinced he just doesn’t know what he’s doing. He needs the ball in his hands, as does Melo. Put him in with a running second unit and hope he outscores the other team.

    2. Kikuchiyo

      Big Amar’e supporter, but this new “injury” is unforgivable, especially after missing last playoffs with a back injured on a hotdog dunk (and especially because the team is already depleted). Sadly, Amar’e, there were times this season when we all preferred a healthy Jeffries to you anyway.

      Miami beat the Knicks on the court in Miami, which is annoying but expected. But Miami also beat the Knicks psychologically, which is pathetic.

    3. afrikan_hermis

      Feel sorry for a good man…It’s now time for coach to play “JORDANSANITY ” Jerome Jordan IS, besides Tyson, the best talented, athletic big man with an indefensible BACK-TO-THE-BASKET SPINNING TURN AROUND FADE AWAY shot. He often finishes with ferocity at the rim and I have NEVER seen his shot blocked! That cannot be said about Jorts, Jeffries,and even Stat.He patrols the paint and confronts opposing intruders better. Pair his 9’6″ standing reach and 7’6″ wing span with Tyson and we can have an imposing TWIN TOWER dynamo a la LA Lakers! Whenever Tyson leaves the paint to confront a threat, JJ will be there to man the rim and vice versa. Suddenly Wade, Bosch, Lebron and Co will think twice to run back door or penetrate.And we won’t miss any offense as JJ is a ferocious finisher at the rim with a smooth 15′ stroke from the elbow, not to mention his shot blocking, shot altering abilities and better than 50+%FGA and 82+%FTA. We can even pair hm with Jeffries and Novac for a big front line with defense and offense when Melo or Tyson rests.Anybody with me on this?

    4. afrikan_hermis

      Matt Smith:
      Whoa, looking over last night’s thread, I almost forgot how quick everyone is to overreact as a Knicks fan (myself included).

      Can’t help but thinking a lot has to do with Woodson. We know what we’re getting from Amare. I used to think he doesn’t try on D, but now I’m convinced he just doesn’t know what he’s doing. He needs the ball in his hands, as does Melo. Put him in with a running second unit and hope he outscores the other team.

      am 1000+% with u dude. I can’t understand his substitutions, sometimes. It seems he is afraid to tell Stat he will be better off with the 2nd units, which makes plain common sense, just as he is afraid IMHO to tell JR that ” u commit more than one of those reckless and silly fouls in a game and you will sit” Winning regular season games is one thing. Winning a rugged high intensity IQ-based play off games IS another ball game!

    5. bobneptune

      i am cross posting this from the post game thread as a response to something interesting brian wrote @ 4 am:

      bobneptune
      May 1, 2012 at 8:58 am

      Brian Cronin:

      David Lee would fit in nicely with the current Knick personnel. He’d be the back-up 5 and he’d be a 4 who could actually help move the ball.

      please with the david lee stuff. i realize he is well liked here after putting up numbers in the d’antoni system on 30 win teams, but he is a horrible long contract, too.

      the only way he would make any sense here would be if big chief triangle came to ny. lee would make the almost perfect mid post initiator of the triangle as his best skills are catching the ball and a top passer for a 4/5. defense isn’t at a premium for the 5 in the triangle (wennington, longley, cartwright)

      putting lee in the mid post flanked by melo and shumpert on the right side forming the triangle with lin at the top of the key and chandler away from the ball (as far as humanly possible) might just work. this also allows chandler free run to crash the offensive boards from the weak side.

      lee’s deficiencies on the defensive end could be hidden by cross matching with chandler on the defensive end and chandler backstopping him.

      the more i think about it the better i like it.

      i just don’t see how amar’e and carmelo can play on the same floor at the same time. i’m sure amar’e punching the glass had everything to do with melo heaving up 26 shots while amar’e was 6-9 from the floor.

    6. New Guy

      I missed last night’s threads, so pardon me if this has already been mentioned (and I’m sure it has):

      This is the SECOND straight playoffs Amar’e has suffered a self-inflicted injury. IMO, the good will from signing here is erased with that repeated stupidity. He needs to be gone.

      I continue to maintain he is tradeable to at least one team: Washington. Team him with John Wall and let Nene do the dirty work. That’s just good enough to make them a lower tier playoff team, and they seem dumb enough to want to aim for that. They need to get Wall someone.

      There’s only two ways this could happen.

      The way we want: They amnesty Lewis, putting them far enough under the cap that we can trade him for nothing more than draft picks (which we desperately need).

      The way they would want: We trade him for Lewis, and have to suck up the 1 year on his contract to escape the 3 years of Amare’s. (And hopefully get draft picks as compensation for doing this.)

      I haven’t done the math yet, but it seems like option 1 would allow us to re-sign Lin, Novak, and Smith, whereas option 2 might not change our situation that much.

    7. afrikan_hermis

      Kikuchiyo: No.

      Kiku ( I love dat name.loll. my native Afrikan name is Kweku. Anyway i BELIEVE time will tell if am right. I REPEAT JJ IS the X-FACTOR coaching staff have overlooked since D’antoni turned away AS USUAL from him in favor of a big who can shoot the 3, just as he wasted Darko, Randolf, etc. And I believe some rubbed off on Woodson. I ‘ve been watching the Knicks from the glory days and I knew a guard called Woodson too. Like I say time will tell cos I believe If Woody have the guts to play JJ not at garbage times, he will erupt like a volcano to save his job for next season. IMO Phil Jackson, JVG and Doc Rivers will salivate to have JJ on their roster. Mark my word time will tell.

    8. johnlocke

      co-sign.

      Kikuchiyo:
      Big Amar’e supporter, but this new “injury” is unforgivable, especially after missing last playoffs with a back injured on a hotdog dunk (and especially because the team is already depleted). Sadly, Amar’e, there were times this season when we all preferred a healthy Jeffries to you anyway.

      Miami beat the Knicks on the court in Miami, which is annoying but expected. But Miami also beat the Knicks psychologically, which is pathetic.

    9. d-mar

      Sorry to repost, didn’t realize there was a new thread:

      The Amare thing makes me incredibly angry, but also incredibly sad. I was a huge fan when he came here and personally revitalized the franchise, saying and doing all the right things, becoming a part of the NY culture etc. And he seemed like a good guy also.

      Now his career is nosediving, and his punching the fire extinguisher is almost a coda. Do you remember at the beginning of the season when we were talking about having the best front line in the NBA with Chandler, Melo and STAT? Now all we’re talking about is what garbage we can dump Amare for.

      Just really depressing.

    10. bobneptune

      d-mar:
      Sorry to repost, didn’t realize there was a new thread:

      The Amare thing makes me incredibly angry, but also incredibly sad. I was a huge fan when he came here and personally revitalized the franchise, saying and doing all the right things, becoming a part of the NY culture etc. And he seemed like a good guy also.

      Now his career is nosediving, and his punching the fire extinguisher is almost a coda. Do you remember at the beginning of the season when we were talking about having the best front line in the NBA with Chandler, Melo and STAT? Now all we’re talking about is what garbage we can dump Amare for.

      Just really depressing.

      he needs disc surgery before any judgement can be made

    11. JK47

      We’re probably stuck with Amar’e now until that hideous contract expires. Even teams who might have been tempted to trade for him before have got to be scared off by this fiasco. The guy is a freaking laughing stock. He’s never going to hear the end of this, and deservedly so. So we’ll get to enjoy his mediocre play until 2015. Yay.

      The only hope is that this humiliating incident humbles him in some way and he starts acting like a grown man and a team player, not somebody who punches things made of glass because he didn’t get enough shots.

    12. JC Knickfan

      3 year is still alot years on Amare’s contract. I say reasonable that we could move his contract in 2014 at the trade deadline since there only be 1 year left on his contract. We probably HAVE to take some longer term contract back, but might get a reasonable player. Anything before that, I think will be crap deals.

      So next year he going to be on the team with Lin. 6th man seem like the best option with some cross over time with Melo. Lin has to manage floor to make it work during that times. The team probably good enough win Atlantic for 3 years straight, but as soon we run into Heat buzzsaw (and Chi-town?) we probably stuck in 2nd Rd mediocre.

      With virtually no draft picks – Lin needs become more like Tony Parker. I think he can be even better passer, but need manage his TO. Otherwise I pretty sure Melo hit his ceiling so our hope lies with this young padawan.

    13. Caleb

      bobneptune:
      i am cross posting this from the post game thread as a response to something interesting brian wrote @ 4 am:

      bobneptune
      May 1, 2012 at 8:58 am

      Brian Cronin:

      David Lee would fit in nicely with the current Knick personnel. He’d be the back-up 5 and he’d be a 4 who could actually help move the ball.

      please with the david lee stuff. i realize he is well liked here after putting up numbers in the d’antoni system on 30 win teams, but he is a horrible long contract, too.

      the only way he would make any sense here would be if big chief triangle came to ny. lee would make the almost perfect mid post initiator of the triangle as his best skills are catching the ball and a top passer for a 4/5. defense isn’t at a premium for the 5 in the triangle (wennington, longley, cartwright)

      Some perspective – David Lee played almost as well before MDA showed up – he had a year when he racked up a 65 TS% and the 2nd highest rebound rate in the league. He got more attention playing for MDA because he got more minutes and his per-game #s went up. His game might have improved a little bit with his extended range jumper, but don’t try and say he was a product of the system.

      I do think he’d be a good fit next to Chandler, and on this team. But for $16 million and no defense – not buying. (Whether it’s better than having Amare for the next 3 years, is another question).

      Not sure what you’re talking about re: the Bulls. Cartwright was easily a top-5 defensive center in the league, and Longley was also a very good defender. Those guys weren’t out there for their offense. Except Wennington who was out there mainly to be big.

    14. Caleb

      On Amare, I don’t have much to add. What he did speaks for itself.

      For Game 3, it hurts but not irreversibly. Assuming Chandler is at full strength, our D will be better without him. Jorts as backup will have his work cut out, keeping Bosh and Haslem off the glass, but that’s something he can do.

      On O, Knicks will need someone besides Melo to heat up, but it’s doable.

    15. JC Knickfan

      TD next season salary = $2,067,880 * 1.15 = $2,378,062

      So any role player we could trade for that salary if we include $3 million as of the deal?

    16. Caleb

      Haberstroh brings the numbers: for the season, Knicks are -1.3 points per 48 with Stoudemire on the court; +7.4 points per 48 without him.
      http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/13758/what-the-stoudemire-injury-means-for-heat

      True, he’s playing better than he did the first half of the year, and we aren’t running out Jeffries to replace him now, but I don’t see this injury as crippling us.

      Jorts will have to be functional as a backup – we’re running out of bodies – and we have to do a better job on rotations and keeping the Heat’s secondary players from hurting us. Some of it’s out of our hands – the Heat have been playing very well, and getting a little lucky. Overall I’d say the Knicks D was so-so last night – aside from Amare (especially, those pathetic half-strength fouls on LeBron), , it was pretty good through three quarters. Eventually Chandler ran out of gas and there was sort of a domino effect – we stopped closing out on the 3-point shooters in the 4th.

      But seriously, Mario Chalmers isn’t going to have 2 games like that in a row.

    17. johnlocke

      Lol– great minds, see my post above.

      Those Amare soft and-on-fouls really pissed me off. That and three FTs missed in a row.

      Caleb:
      Haberstroh brings the numbers: for the season, Knicks are -1.3 points per 48 with Stoudemire on the court; +7.4 points per 48 without him.
      http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/13758/what-the-stoudemire-injury-means-for-heat

      True, he’s playing better than he did the first half of the year, and we aren’t running out Jeffries to replace him now, but I don’t see this injury as crippling us.

      Jorts will have to be functional as a backup – we’re running out of bodies – and we have to do a better job on rotations and keeping the Heat’s secondary players from hurting us. Some of it’s out of our hands – the Heat have been playing very well, and getting a little lucky. Overall I’d say the Knicks D was so-so last night – aside from Amare (especially, those pathetic half-strength fouls on LeBron), , it was pretty good through three quarters. Eventually Chandler ran out of gas and there was sort of a domino effect – we stopped closing out on the 3-point shooters in the 4th.

      But seriously, Mario Chalmers isn’t going to have 2 games like that in a row.

    18. d-mar

      @19 Caleb, good rational perspective, I really wish Jeffries was 100%, because then we could really up our defensive intensity for longer stretches.

      I also think Woodson needs to devise a way to get Novak a few open looks. I know Miami’s defense is great, but guys like Ray Allen and Reggie back in the day get a million screens set to pop them for open looks. Not saying Novak should be the primary option, but we only attempted 15 threes last night. Need more diversity on offense than just Melo ISO’s.

    19. JC Knickfan

      @19
      April 15 game Stat did not play. Melo had 42 points/JR had 16 and we still lost by 8pts. I don’t think we ask more on offense.

      Defense
      If so-so = 52.1% FG, then what is bad? Man to man is not stopping Miami wings forays into the paint. Woodson better try some match zone this game like Dallas last year otherwise we just don’t have offense to match them.

    20. Z

      Re:traing Amar’e (from last thread), aren’t there a bunch of teams with caps space and no one to spend it on? The Nets wouldn’t even need to resign Wallace. They could just give us Morrow and cap space. Same for other teams and other scenarios, no?

    21. hoolahoop

      Amare is stifled by Melo. PG’s are stifled by Melo.
      He’ll jack up 30 shots, triple teamed, and not think anything of it.
      His team will lose and he’ll laugh, if he scored his twenty five.
      His team will win, and he’ll pout if he didn’t get enough touches.
      His new thing is he wants to dribble the ball upcourt.
      Melo will will win you a lot of games, but never bring you to the promised land. Never.
      He’s great to have when you need to get a shot off. One of the best NBA scorers when he’s in rhythm.
      Unfortunately, he doesn’t play well with others.

    22. Doug

      You guys scare me sometimes. Maybe it is that the relentless bad fortune of this season has put me in a state of zen. Maybe it’s that after Kevin Brown and AJ Burnett, self-inflicted punching injuries don’t shock me all that much. But how quickly everyone is willing to stick a knife between Amare’s ribs, light him on fire, and push him off the Brooklyn Bridge in cement shoes is disturbing.

      In a season full of crazy – not the good kind of crazy – another freak accident like this fire extinguisher incident is just piling on. Perhaps for some of you it is the last straw but I really cannot see how. Amare has never done anything to deliberately hurt the team – he’s never acted out or quit on the team or anything like that. And before you whine, “b-b-b-but Doug, LAST YEAR’S PLAYOFFS!” don’t act like half the league doesn’t do showboat dunks during warmups — I didn’t see any of you bitterly attacking Shump for doing between-the-legs dunks before games.

      The level of circlejerk on this board can be quite high sometimes. Some of you want David Lee back? The one guy who might be even less committed on defense than Amare? I think you all forgot how even D’Antoni soured on him because he routinely leaves his man on defense to position himself for rebounds. Some of you are hoping for to fleece another gullible NBA front office? When was the last time the Knicks ever did that?

      This whole season has been a wash as far as I’m concerned. I’m giving this team an offseason to get its collective and individual shit together. If things aren’t on the right track by then, I’ll probably join you in tarring and feathering Amare. However, for now y’alls just sound ridiculous.

    23. Caleb

      JC Knickfan:
      @19
      April 15 game Stat did not play.Melo had 42 points/JR had 16 and we still lost by 8pts. I don’t think we ask more on offense.

      Defense
      If so-so = 52.1% FG, then what is bad?Man to man is not stopping Miami wings forays into the paint. Woodson better try some match zone this game like Dallas last year otherwise we just don’t have offense to match them.

      The final #s were terrible, but I’d keep it in perspective.

      Some of it was the Heat hitting shots that are not high percentage. Lots of long jumpers.

      The first half, Chandler was a big presence and made life tough for Miami. When he ran out of steam, everything sort of fell apart. I’m guessing he can give us a full game’s worth on Thursday.

      I saw several breakdowns that were specifically on Amare. The team D was ok, but he let his man run right by him, or gave a completely lame help effort.

      In the 4th (maybe late in the 3rd), things just fell apart, but for most of the game I think our D was ok – Miami just played very well.

      Some things we’re just going to have to suffer – Smith will need help dealing with Wade in the post – but assuming Chandler is ok, I think we can defend this team.

    24. Bruno Almeida

      the problem is not “will Amare stay as down as possible or will he eventually get better”… it’s “Amare is fucking paid 65 million for the next 3 years with no possible equal value trade available”.

      he just doesn’t fucking cares, can’t you all see that? dude wants to score and be the big bad star, he was really happy before Melo came because he was the only star, he could shoot all he want and defend like shit and no one would criticize, while we toiled in mediocrity… after Carmelo came, he was the obvious star, and not surprisingly Amare started playing much worse.

      if he wanted to win, he would play defense, he has all the physical tools and has always had, the problem is his head, not his body.

      it is a matter of fitting together with Anthony and Chandler, but he is clearly the 3rd best player on this group and he should be the one to adapt… but instead of trying hard to do that, he goes fucking punching fire extinguishers.

      let’s trade him for whatever crap we can get, we’re better off without him when Lin comes back.

    25. bobneptune

      Caleb: Some perspective – David Lee played almost as well before MDA showed up – he had a year when he racked up a 65 TS% and the 2nd highest rebound rate in the league. He got more attention playing for MDA because he got more minutes and his per-game #s went up. His game might have improved a little bit with his extended range jumper, but don’t try and say he was a product of the system.

      >>>>BN

      lee’s ppg increased 100% and his usage increased 50% dantoni over isiah.

      lee didn’t get the crazy contract because he was scoring 10ppg under isiah

      Not sure what you’re talking about re: the Bulls. Cartwright was easily a top-5 defensive center in the league

      >>>>BN

      i have to ask you if you ever actually saw cartwright play. his strength of his game was on the offensive end. He was a “top 5″ defender???

      couldn’t block a shot and was an awful rebounder. had bulk in the post and could bother ewing because he practiced with him for years.

      longley was a complete stiff

    26. Caleb

      I saw Cartwright play many times, in-person and otherwise. He wasn’t a big rebounder but was an excellent defensive player – I don’t think you could find anyone who would say otherwise. I know he was famous for guarding Ewing, but that was just tabloid story line – he did a good job guarding all the bigs. Blocks aren’t that great a statistic. I don’t think Charles Oakley blocked 10 shots his whole career but I don’t think there was another PF better.

      Outside the superstars – Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing – not sure who was a better defender.

      re: DL, you’re just re-stating my main point. He played more and handled the ball more with D’Antoni in charge. That didn’t make him a better player, it just made him more well-known. I do think he got a little better and more versatile, but he was always terrific. Many people on this board predicted he would be a 20-10 guy if he go the PT.

    27. JK47

      Amar’e and his .128 WS/48 are not all that good in the first place, and that’s not even really taking his shitty defense into account. And now we’re supposed to put up with self-inflicted injuries in the midst of a playoff series too?

      I’m tired of hearing excuses for him. He was a good player when he had the best PG in a generation feeding him the ball, but as a Knick he had been a big disappointment even before this ridiculous incident. Two years here and he sure hasn’t done much.

    28. New Guy

      hoolahoop:
      Amare is stifled by Melo. PG’s are stifled by Melo.
      He’ll jack up 30 shots, triple teamed, and not think anything of it.
      His team will lose and he’ll laugh, if he scored his twenty five.
      His team will win, and he’ll pout if he didn’t get enough touches.
      His new thing is he wants to dribble the ball upcourt.
      Melo will will win you a lot of games, but never bring you to the promised land. Never.
      He’s great to have when you need to get a shot off. One of the bestNBA scorers when he’s in rhythm.
      Unfortunately, he doesn’t play well with others.

      Not today. Melo doesn’t deserve our ire right now.

    29. Caleb

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartwbi01.html

      I might be remembering his D as a little better than it was. He was on the downside by the time he got to Chicago and didn’t move that well any more. But he was still a good defensive player. He played more than 25 mpg for 3 world champions and he wasn’t in the lineup to be a big part of the O. His first year with the Bulls was the only year his usage rate cracked 18, and his TS% their championship years was .562, .522 and .497.

    30. New Guy

      Doug:
      You guys scare me sometimes. Maybe it is that the relentless bad fortune of this season has put me in a state of zen. Maybe it’s that after Kevin Brown and AJ Burnett, self-inflicted punching injuries don’t shock me all that much. But how quickly everyone is willing to stick a knife between Amare’s ribs, light him on fire, and push him off the Brooklyn Bridge in cement shoes is disturbing.

      In a season full of crazy – not the good kind of crazy – another freak accident like this fire extinguisher incident is just piling on. Perhaps for some of you it is the last straw but I really cannot see how. Amare has never done anything to deliberately hurt the team – he’s never acted out or quit on the team or anything like that. And before you whine, “b-b-b-but Doug, LAST YEAR’S PLAYOFFS!” don’t act like half the league doesn’t do showboat dunks during warmups — I didn’t see any of you bitterly attacking Shump for doing between-the-legs dunks before games.

      The level of circlejerk on this board can be quite high sometimes. Some of you want David Lee back? The one guy who might be even less committed on defense than Amare? I think you all forgot how even D’Antoni soured on him because he routinely leaves his man on defense to position himself for rebounds. Some of you are hoping for to fleece another gullible NBA front office? When was the last time the Knicks ever did that?

      This whole season has been a wash as far as I’m concerned. I’m giving this team an offseason to get its collective and individual shit together. If things aren’t on the right track by then, I’ll probably join you in tarring and feathering Amare. However, for now y’alls just sound ridiculous.

      Well said. And I’m aware that I’m one of the people who sounds ridiculous. I envy your zen.

    31. hoolahoop

      New Guy: Not today.Melo doesn’t deserve our ire right now.

      Bullshit. Now is exactly the time. I’m sick and tired of this team revolving around a selfish ballstopper.

    32. Kikuchiyo

      Doug, I’m not a crazy on this. Amar’e is not the reason the Knicks lost these games, and his accident is a bit stupidity and a bit bad luck. It’s not a sign that he’s quit on the team or that he’s a selfish jerk or that he doesn’t care to play defense. But it is a sign of bad judgment. Really bad judgment at a very crucial time. I don’t want him traded. But I think part of his contract is for leadership and poise. I feel the same way about Chandler’s annoying complaint techs and Melo’s questionable response to D’Antoni. You can’t win if you lose your cool. (Once again, Detroit—Rasheed—is the outlier.)

      Amar’e was amazing last year and a pretty good leader most of this year. This is just a terrible, terrible lapse.

    33. Doug

      Kikuchiyo:
      Doug, I’m not a crazy on this. Amar’e is not the reason the Knicks lost these games, and his accident is a bit stupidity and a bit bad luck. It’s not a sign that he’s quit on the team or that he’s a selfish jerk or that he doesn’t care to play defense. But it is a sign of bad judgment. Really bad judgment at a very crucial time. I don’t want him traded. But I think part of his contract is for leadership and poise. I feel the same way about Chandler’s annoying complaint techs and Melo’s questionable response to D’Antoni. You can’t win if you lose your cool. (Once again, Detroit—Rasheed—is the outlier.)

      Amar’e was amazing last year and a pretty good leader most of this year. This is just a terrible, terrible lapse.

      I don’t think your stance is crazy at all. In fact, I think I agree with just about all of it. It was an inexplicable moment of madness on Amare’s part, but it was an accident. If his giant fist lands an inch to the right or the left, we might be laughing the whole thing off. To me this lapse in judgment is his first major strike with the Knicks. But like you said, I don’t want him traded over it. It’s pretty irrational to call for him to be traded in a salary dump as if he’s Stephon Marbury.

    34. TelegraphedPass

      hoolahoop: Bullshit. Now is exactly the time. I’m sick and tired of this team revolving around a selfish ballstopper.

      ZZZZZZZZ

      This has advanced beyond the realm of willfully ignorant. There is too much information about his playing ability out there for you to make these statements as an adult.

    35. TelegraphedPass

      I really kind of like Bargs+Kleiza for STAT, as Ruru suggested in the previous thread.

      Bargnani is a worse rebounder and p&r option, but MUCH better suited to the half-court game. And somehow Bargs is a much better defender than STAT.

    36. johnlocke

      Wow – you must be really riled up! This is the longest post I’ve seen from you in quite some time =). But to be fair the dude punched glass in the playoffs when were down 0-2 and heading home. The David Lee commentary is over the top. I think it’s fair to have a debate about whether it makes sense to get a more complementary team around Melo/Chandler/Lin and if Amare will ever fit. Arguably getting a big that can defend, rebound and shoot the outside shot (a Kurt Thomas redux) and a sharpshooter like Morrow, Korver, etc (assuming we lose Novak/JR) would be more useful to the team as currently constructed. In either case, Amare most likely wouldn’t be moved until closer to the trade deadline next year…for yet another new roster. I think we’re all tired of the ‘we need to just wait till next year’ comments…since we’ve been saying that for at least 5 years now

      Doug:
      You guys scare me sometimes. Maybe it is that the relentless bad fortune of this season has put me in a state of zen. Maybe it’s that after Kevin Brown and AJ Burnett, self-inflicted punching injuries don’t shock me all that much. But how quickly everyone is willing to stick a knife between Amare’s ribs, light him on fire, and push him off the Brooklyn Bridge in cement shoes is disturbing.

      In a season full of crazy – not the good kind of crazy – another freak accident like this fire extinguisher incident is just piling on. Perhaps for some of you it is the last straw but I really cannot see how. Amare has never done anything to deliberately hurt the team – he’s never acted out or quit on the team or anything like that. And before you whine, “b-b-b-but Doug, LAST YEAR’S PLAYOFFS!” don’t act like half the league doesn’t do showboat dunks during warmups — I didn’t see any of you bitterly attacking Shump for doing between-the-legs dunks before games.

      </blockquo

    37. Eternal OptiKnist

      You guys are really hilarious re: STAT. Have you ever considered for a moment that perhaps he is not complete trash physically…have you considered that perhaps there is another player in town that hijacked his team? That he’s been reduced to such an insignificant role that he’s hurting mentally (this game is about confidence)? Do you not appreciate the fact that he’s kept everything in-house, not vented his frustration to the media…has tried to be the good citizen and fit in despite playing differently than he’s played his entire career? He’s seemed to me to always be a pro and a guy that sacrifices for the good of the team. He screwed up last night, and i’m frustrated by it and upset for the team, but i’m not going to crucify him for it…i guarantee u he’s sick over it. We’ve all done things in the heat of the moment without considering the ramifications…don’t lie..you have…and they were probably even dumber…the NY Post just didn’t report it the next day. If the team wants to move in another direction because they have a new fancy that they want to cater to…fine….its clear he no longer fits in. His coach and system have been run out of town. Does his defense frustrate me? You bet. Does his rebounding infuriate me? No question. But these are all weaknesses in his game that have always been there. However, he’s always impacted the game in a positive way despite that. That is no longer the case as he is a distant 3rd option. The guy has been a winner his whole career..and dont give me the Steve Nash BS..he did just fine with Felton. I’m not rehashing the Melo trade..far from it. I accept that the team placed their bets on other players and the best thing may be to move Amare..its a business..it “is what it is”. But please…all of you on this board who were probably chanting MVP last season…show some motherfucking respect.

    38. TelegraphedPass

      @40 You’re injecting way too much emotion into this. You are assuming people are inquiring about STAT trades specifically because of this incident. The discussion has been going on all year. STAT is factually a bad defender. He always has been. Nobody is saying STAT is done. He isn’t. His offense is still dynamic and efficient, especially now that we aren’t giving him a ton of iso plays. He’s a player who scores off cuts and PnRs and this team isn’t a great fit for him the way the offense is currently structured. He’s older than Melo and his defensive and rebounding limitations are also concerning, so why is it blasphemous to explore trades?

      This “Show some respect!” tagline is practically offensive. Because he played well last year, he’s immune from trade talk? Unless you’re a guaranteed franchise like LeBron or Wade or Chris Paul, you are tradeable. It isn’t meant to disparage STAT. The point is to build a better team.

    39. thenamestsam

      I’m very disappointed by the overall energy level the Knicks have shown in this series. We’re not as good as the Heat, and the refs certainly haven’t helped us any, but I really feel like the Knicks have been lackadaisical so far in the series. The swarming ultra-aggressive defense that we saw at the team’s best during the regular season has been completely absent so far.

      Last night Lebron and Wade made only 1 shot over 12 feet between the two of them. Neither had their jumpers working at all. Before the series I figured that if those guys didn’t make jumpers, they would struggle to score, and yet in a game where they made only 1, we still allowed them to crack 100, and to score at will down the stretch. Yes, losing Shump obviously hurt us in that regard, but the whole team is playing with way less energy and intensity than they did when Woodson first took over.

      I still (somehow) believe this series is winnable, but the team needs to play with a completely different attitude and energy at MSG than they have on the road so far.

    40. johnlocke

      I don’t think I’ve ever thrown my laptop out the window because I had a bad day. This is like a model having a bad fashion show and clawing her face. His body has allowed him to make $100M …it was worse than ‘screwing up’ …it was pretty damn stupid. Having said that, that’s not the reason I think we should look into trading the guy….just don’t think he’s a great fit…some of that is on Woodson, but a lot of it is on his terrible defense

      Eternal OptiKnist:
      We’ve all done things in the heat of the moment without considering the ramifications…don’t lie..you have…and they were probably even dumber…

    41. johnlocke

      100% agree…read this, after I posted my comment.

      TelegraphedPass:
      @40 You’re injecting way too much emotion into this. You are assuming people are inquiring about STAT trades specifically because of this incident. The discussion has been going on all year. STAT is factually a bad defender. He always has been. Nobody is saying STAT is done. He isn’t. His offense is still dynamic and efficient, especially now that we aren’t giving him a ton of iso plays. He’s a player who scores off cuts and PnRs and this team isn’t a great fit for him the way the offense is currently structured. He’s older than Melo and his defensive and rebounding limitations are also concerning, so why is it blasphemous to explore trades?

      This “Show some respect!” tagline is practically offensive. Because he played well last year, he’s immune from trade talk? Unless you’re a guaranteed franchise like LeBron or Wade or Chris Paul, you are tradeable. It isn’t meant to disparage STAT. The point is to build a better team.

    42. Bruno Almeida

      TelegraphedPass:
      @40 You’re injecting way too much emotion into this. You are assuming people are inquiring about STAT trades specifically because of this incident. The discussion has been going on all year. STAT is factually a bad defender. He always has been. Nobody is saying STAT is done. He isn’t. His offense is still dynamic and efficient, especially now that we aren’t giving him a ton of iso plays. He’s a player who scores off cuts and PnRs and this team isn’t a great fit for him the way the offense is currently structured. He’s older than Melo and his defensive and rebounding limitations are also concerning, so why is it blasphemous to explore trades?

      This “Show some respect!” tagline is practically offensive. Because he played well last year, he’s immune from trade talk? Unless you’re a guaranteed franchise like LeBron or Wade or Chris Paul, you are tradeable. It isn’t meant to disparage STAT. The point is to build a better team.

      exactly.

      dude gets paid 20 million a year to play basketball, not to punch fire extinguishers.

    43. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Matt Smith:
      Whoa, looking over last night’s thread, I almost forgot how quick everyone is to overreact as a Knicks fan (myself included).

      Overreact? This team, a playoff team that “underperformed” in the regular season, just got handed a 35 point loss and then a 10 point loss. Oh, and they lost one of their max contract, “superstar” players for the rest of the series because he couldn’t handle his emotions like a grown-up. There’s no first round pick this year. Or 2014. Or 2016. And Carmelo can’t win a game with his average efficiency hero ball. And James Dolan still owns the team, so the string of terrible basketball decisions will continue for the foreseeable future.

      I’d say there’s a lot to be upset about. Luckily, I don’t give a damn anymore. No more attaching my own emotions to the successes of multi-millionaire athletes who wouldn’t give me (nor any of you, barring those with press credentials) the time of day if you stopped them on the street. But hey, that’s just my opinion. If you want to get upset because a few rich basketball players are upset that they can’t get the glory of the win (and the consequent spike in income that comes with said win), you might want to think harder about your relationship with those players.

    44. Eternal OptiKnist

      @41 No man, this has nothing to do with emotion, because I’m being rational enough to see the writing on the wall that he doesn’t fit any more and its probably better at this point that he be moved. I’m sure people are upset about glass-gate and i’m not begrudging that! What I’m reacting to are the “He was a good player when he had the best PG in a generation feeding him the ball, but as a Knick he had been a big disappointment”, the “The guy is a freaking laughing stock…we’ll get to enjoy his mediocre play until 2015. Yay” comments. Perhaps you’re not reading the entire thread…or last night’s thread…or so many threads before this. Sorry you’re offended by the ‘show some respect’ line…but please be clear..its show some ‘motherfucking’ respect. I want to make sure my point gets accross.

    45. JK47

      He wasn’t really very good last year either. He had a .134 WS/48 and saw his TS% fall off by 50 points.

    46. formido

      Miami is really good and the Knicks got bad reffing and terrible luck. You can’t do anything about that and nothing should be done. With normal or good luck, this current team is really, really good. Wait until next year.

      Keep calm and carry on.

    47. Eternal OptiKnist

      johnlocke: I don’t think I’ve ever thrown my laptop out the window because I had a bad day. This is like a model having a bad fashion show and clawing her face. His body has allowed him to make $100M …it was worse than ‘screwing up’ …it was pretty damn stupid. Having said that, that’s not the reason I think we should look into trading the guy….just don’t think he’s a great fit…some of that is on Woodson, but a lot of it is on his terrible defense

      I find it amazing you’ve never reacted emotionally to something thats had bad consequences because you didnt think it through..perhaps you are Jesus. Go back and read my post, I agree that we should look to trade him.

    48. Bruno Almeida

      Eternal OptiKnist:
      @41No man, this has nothing to do with emotion, because I’m being rational enough to see the writing on the wall that he doesn’t fit any more and its probably better at this point that he be moved. I’m sure people are upset about glass-gate and i’m not begrudging that! What I’m reacting to are the “He was a good player when he had the best PG in a generation feeding him the ball, but as a Knick he had been a big disappointment”, the “The guy is a freaking laughing stock…we’ll get to enjoy his mediocre play until 2015. Yay” comments.Perhaps you’re not reading the entire thread…or last night’s thread…or so many threads before this.Sorry you’re offended by the ‘show some respect’ line…but please be clear..its show some ‘motherfucking’ respect.I want to make sure my point gets accross.

      oh, right, so we should put on a pedestal the guy who, despite getting paid 20 million a year to play basketball, getting treated like the motherf**** king of New York City, will probably miss the rest of this series because he PUNCHED A FIRE EXTINGUISHER out of anger? is that showing respect to this fan base, the same respect you expect the fan base to give him regardless of his actions?

      this is something my 12 year old cousin does when he loses on videogames.

    49. ruruland

      thenamestsam:
      I’m very disappointed by the overall energy level the Knicks have shown in this series. We’re not as good as the Heat, and the refs certainly haven’t helped us any, but I really feel like the Knicks have been lackadaisical so far in the series. The swarming ultra-aggressive defense that we saw at the team’s best during the regular season has been completely absent so far.

      Last night Lebron and Wade made only 1 shot over 12 feet between the two of them. Neither had their jumpers working at all.Before the series I figured that if those guys didn’t make jumpers, they would struggle to score, and yet in a game where they made only 1, we still allowed them to crack 100, and to score at will down the stretch. Yes, losing Shump obviously hurt us in that regard, but the whole team is playing with way less energy and intensity than they did when Woodson first took over.

      I still (somehow) believe this series is winnable, but the team needs to play with a completely different attitude and energy at MSG than they have on the road so far.

      Right, one thing stat heads don’t understand is that sometimes you can have a high possession game where one team takes 20-25 shots 5-7 seconds into the clock. THe other team can’t get those same shots but they get a lot of possessions.

      How many of those Lebron/Wade shots were transition?

      By my count 8 of their 19 combined makes —they were 11-28 in the half-court

      How many easy back-door plays/post-ups did Fields give up to Wade?
      By my count 4.

      By contrast, 12 of Melo’s 26 shots came with 7 seconds or less on the shot clock. Not one of his attempts came on a fastbreak or in true transition.

    50. Eternal OptiKnist

      Bruno Almeida: oh, right, so we should put on a pedestal the guy who, despite getting paid 20 million a year to play basketball, getting treated like the motherf**** king of New York City, will probably miss the rest of this series because he PUNCHED A FIRE EXTINGUISHER out of anger? is that showing respect to this fan base, the same respect you expect the fan base to give him regardless of his actions?this is something my 12 year old cousin does when he loses on videogames.

      I’m not sure what you are not getting, maybe you can give your 12-year old cousin your seat at the computer and i can try to explain it to him. I’m not asking for a pedestal, i’m actually saying its fine to move in another direction, but stop trashing a guy who hurt himself and his team by doing something stupid that he most assuredly regrets. How bout this, cheify? Amare hurt his team’s chances of winning what? a single game in an unwinnable series by accidentally injuring himself while venting frustration? Another member of this team actually admitted not playing to his ability and cost us the chance of a higher seed and perhaps winning a series….ON FUCKING PURPOSE!!!!!!!

    51. Bruno Almeida

      Eternal OptiKnist: I’m not sure what you are not getting, maybe you can give your 12-year old cousin your seat at the computer and i can try to explain it to him.I’m not asking for a pedestal, i’m actually saying its fine to move in another direction, but stop trashing a guy who hurt himself and his team by doing something stupid that he most assuredly regrets.How bout this, cheify?Amare hurt his team’s chances of winning what? a single game in an unwinnable series by accidentally injuring himself while venting frustration?Another member of this team actually admitted not playing to his ability and cost us the chance of a higher seed and perhaps winning a series….ON FUCKING PURPOSE!!!!!!!

      Amare has a 20 million a year salary, I don’t think he needs or cares about our respect.

      he sure doesn’t look like he does.

      so ok, let’s shut down Chandler, who’s playing sick, because we have no chance anyway, so why try? if this is an unwinnable series, why get on court then?

    52. Doug

      Bruno Almeida: oh, right, so we should put on a pedestal the guy who, despite getting paid 20 million a year to play basketball, getting treated like the motherf**** king of New York City, will probably miss the rest of this series because he PUNCHED A FIRE EXTINGUISHER out of anger? is that showing respect to this fan base, the same respect you expect the fan base to give him regardless of his actions?

      this is something my 12 year old cousin does when he loses on videogames.

      If “putting Amare on a pedestal” means not losing my shit and foaming at the mouth demanding he be banished from the franchise, then of course I’m putting him on a pedestal.

      This may sound cold to you, but professional athletes don’t owe us anything. They have virtually nothing in common with us as human beings. Do you think that choosing to support a professional sports franchise actually entitles you to something? A pro athlete will never share your deep-rooted geographical tribalism, no matter how much you want them to. They don’t play to win for the fans, they play to win for each other. As fans we are really inconsequential if you want to be perfectly pragmatic about it.

      You have no effect on Amare’s life and Amare’s life has no effect on yours. Don’t pretend like it’s otherwise.

    53. Eternal OptiKnist

      Bruno Almeida: Amare has a 20 million a year salary, I don’t think he needs or cares about our respect.he sure doesn’t look like he does.so ok, let’s shut down Chandler, who’s playing sick, because we have no chance anyway, so why try? if this is an unwinnable series, why get on court then?

      Amare actually seems to be pretty well-driven to succeed, i actually get the sense that he really wants to do whats in his power to live up to his salary and the expectations of the city, even if it meant giving up control of the team. I could be wrong, but thats just my perception. You’ve obviously missed the point of the whole ‘unwinnable series’ part of my post…let me know when your cousin is around.

    54. Bruno Almeida

      Doug: If “putting Amare on a pedestal” means not losing my shit and foaming at the mouth demanding he be banished from the franchise, then of course I’m putting him on a pedestal.

      This may sound cold to you, but professional athletes don’t owe us anything. They have virtually nothing in common with us as human beings. Do you think that choosing to support a professional sports franchise actually entitles you to something? A pro athlete will never share your deep-rooted geographical tribalism, no matter how much you want them to. They don’t play to win for the fans, they play to win for each other. As fans we are really inconsequential if you want to be perfectly pragmatic about it.

      You have no effect on Amare’s life and Amare’s life has no effect on yours. Don’t pretend like it’s otherwise.

      I just said this, I don’t think he cares about me or owes me nothing, but I don’t owe him anything too.

      as much as what you said is true, a lot of professional basketball players are very committed to at least honoring the huge salaries they get paid, and the fact that those salaries only exist because people actually watch basketball and cheer for their teams.

      being out for the series where your team most needs you because you can’t control your anger doesn’t seem to me like an honorable attitude.

    55. Bruno Almeida

      Eternal OptiKnist: Amare actually seems to be pretty well-driven to succeed, i actually get the sense that he really wants to do whats in his power to live up to his salary and the expectations of the city, even if it meant giving up control of the team.I could be wrong, but thats just my perception.You’ve obviously missed the point of the whole ‘unwinnable series’ part of my post…let me know when your cousin is around.

      oh, that’s an awesome offence, you’re surely really smart huh?

      my goodness.

    56. Eternal OptiKnist

      Do you guys think its at all possible for this offseason for Charles Oakley to spend the entire summer with Amare, a la Jack Nicholson in Anger Management? You know, just change his mindset and production in the defense/rebounding department? If he’s not going to get P&R opportunities (or the ball, in general) and can’t be traded, he’ll need to reinvent his game. Hopefully the Oakman doesnt sleep in the nude.

    57. TelegraphedPass

      @48 Oh yeah, I get what you’re saying now. Yeah, there will always be people here who overreact and call guys washed up prematurely or make similarly obtuse statements. I just try to ignore them. I’m numb after losing Shump anyways.

      STAT is still really really freaking good offensively. Especially if you look at his post-ASG splits. Anyone calling STAT merely a product of DA or Nash doesn’t really grasp team offense.

    58. johnlocke

      Reacting emotionally and doing something that is almost tantamount to ruining your tools of trade are two different things entirely. If we had just gotten swept I would have understood…we lost two games to arguably the best team in the NBA with a sick Chandler and injured Shump. What the hell was he thinking?? You can’t be seriously trying to defend what he did last night…. if you are, you’re not going to convince me its defensible.

      Eternal OptiKnist: I find it amazing you’ve never reacted emotionally to something thats had bad consequences because you didnt think it through..perhaps you are Jesus.Go back and read my post, I agree that we should look to trade him.

    59. Eternal OptiKnist

      johnlocke: Reacting emotionally and doing something that is almost tantamount to ruining your tools of trade are two different things entirely. If we had just gotten swept I would have understood…we lost two games to arguably the best team in the NBA with a sick Chandler and injured Shump. What the hell was he thinking?? You can’t be seriously trying to defend what he did last night…. if you are, you’re not going to convince me its defensible.

      There’s a difference between defending it and understanding it. It was stupid and i’m not defending it, but unlike so many others here, im not now looking at him as the spawn of satan. Totally a stupid thing to do…i agree.

    60. Bruno Almeida

      johnlocke:
      Reacting emotionally and doing something that is almost tantamount to ruining your tools of trade are two different things entirely.If we had just gotten swept I would have understood…we lost two games to arguably the best team in the NBA with a sick Chandler and injured Shump. What the hell was he thinking?? You can’t be seriously trying to defend what he did last night…. if you are, you’re not going to convince me its defensible.

      yeah, that’s it… and the series is headed to New York, where this team will have a friendlier whistle and the crowd behind it.

      but now, we’ll have to start Jeffries or J.R Smith and hope LeBron punches a wall or something.

    61. Bruno Almeida

      and by the way, I always said that I thought this team was headed for a sweep against Miami, but one thing is to play and lose 4 games, the other is to do stupid things and kill our chances to do anything.

    62. johnlocke

      No surprise here — by the way that Office Space/Amare GIF is truly hilarious.

      “Because of the size of the gash and amount of stitches needed to close the gruesome wound Monday night on the side of Amar’e Stoudemire’s left hand, the Knicks are not expecting their starting power forward to return for the series vs. Miami, The Post has learned” — NYPost

    63. bobneptune

      Caleb:
      http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartwbi01.html

      I might be remembering his D as a little better than it was. He was on the downside by the time he got to Chicago and didn’t move that well any more. But he was still a good defensive player. He played more than 25 mpg for 3 world champions and he wasn’t in the lineup to be a big part of the O. His first year with the Bulls was the only year his usage rate cracked 18, and his TS% their championship years was .562, .522 and .497.

      i’m not sure what that link shows other than he was an awful rebounder and shoot blocker.

      he did play with 2 of the best wing defenders of all time.

      as to better defending centers of his era…. how about:

      mark eaton
      caldwell jones
      moses
      mutombo
      kareem
      george johnson
      jack sikma
      hakeem
      ewing
      robinson
      tree rollins
      bill walton
      robert parish
      alonzo mourning
      bob lanier
      artis gilmour

      we could go on and on……..

    64. Eternal OptiKnist

      Bruno Almeida: and by the way, I always said that I thought this team was headed for a sweep against Miami, but one thing is to play and lose 4 games, the other is to do stupid things and kill our chances to do anything.

      We should have never been the 7th seed to begin with. Our “chances to do anything” were killed in the beginning of March #quitness

    65. Bruno Almeida

      Eternal OptiKnist: We should have never been the 7th seed to begin with.Our “chances to do anything” were killed in the beginning of March #quitness

      well, the quitting on D’Antoni was pathetic, but this is not only on Anthony… Amare too was much better and much focused on the few games he played with Woodson, and even with this decent stretch his overall production is still crap.

    66. Owen

      Yeah, that GIF is genius….

      Ruruland – I thought we weren’t posting about Melo? Or with Amare out are the playoffs officially over?

      “By contrast, 12 of Melo’s 26 shots came with 7 seconds or less on the shot clock. Not one of his attempts came on a fastbreak or in true transition.”

    67. Bruno Almeida

      Owen:
      Yeah, that GIF is genius….

      Ruruland – I thought we weren’t posting about Melo? Or with Amare out are the playoffs officially over?

      “By contrast, 12 of Melo’s 26 shots came with 7 seconds or less on the shot clock. Not one of his attempts came on a fastbreak or in true transition.”

      one thing I don’t get about this… in my point of view, most of the blame for Melo having to shoot 12 times with 7 seconds or less on the shot clock is his own fault…

      if he moved better without the ball, or if he didn’t hold the ball for so long, that wouldn’t be an issue.

      of course, much of this has to do with having no PG, and it will get worse without Amare, but let’s not absolve Anthony of all the blame.

    68. hoolahoop

      Eternal OptiKnist: You guys are really hilarious re: STAT. Have you ever considered for a moment that perhaps he is not complete trash physically…have you considered that perhaps there is another player in town that hijacked his team? That he’s been reduced to such an insignificant role that he’s hurting mentally (this game is about confidence)? Do you not appreciate the fact that he’s kept everything in-house, not vented his frustration to the media…has tried to be the good citizen and fit in despite playing differently than he’s played his entire career? He’s seemed to me to always be a pro and a guy that sacrifices for the good of the team.

      YES!

    69. er

      you know that will never happen here, he will always get some so theres that

      Bruno Almeida: one thing I don’t get about this… in my point of view, most of the blame for Melo having to shoot 12 times with 7 seconds or less on the shot clock is his own fault…

      if he moved better without the ball, or if he didn’t hold the ball for so long, that wouldn’t be an issue.

      of course, much of this has to do with having no PG, and it will get worse without Amare, but let’s not absolve Anthony of all the blame.

    70. hoolahoop

      Of course, there’s no one to blame but Amare for his accident. But this is also is another Melo casualty. In a game that Amare goes 6-9, he has to watch “ME”-lo hoisting up 26 shots.
      Melo just doesn’t get it. A lot of posters in this forum don’t get it. You don’t win championships playing selfish, iso, hero ball.

    71. david

      The negativity around here is silly. We are just up against a much better basketball team and one with which we match up badly. Had we faced the Pacers or the Hawks, we would look pretty good — I thought we played quite well in Game 2, just not well enough to beat a much better team. When this year’s Heat team is on, they are the best defensive team of the post-hand check rule era. You need very specific tools to beat them — a back to the basket big (Nowitski), get to the basket scoring pgs (terry and barea) and three point shooting. A team built around a scoring SF is going to have difficulty as they have Lebron on D and are crazy good at rotating if he gets beat.

      I expect them to roll through the playoffs, although I think they might have trouble with San Antonio if they make the finals — they have the exact right build to beat this Heat team.

    72. TelegraphedPass

      hoolahoop: Of course, there’s no one to blame but Amare for his accident. But this is also is another Melo casualty. In a game that Amare goes 6-9, he has to watch “ME”-lo hoisting up 26 shots.Melo just doesn’t get it. A lot of posters in this forum don’t get it. You don’t win championships playing selfish, iso, hero ball.

      Stop it. This is absurd.

      What does this even mean? Did we not see Kobe repeat less than 3 years ago? Is Melo not in the top 3 forwards in assist percentage this year anyways? What is wrong with you?

    73. TelegraphedPass

      TelegraphedPass: Stop it. This is absurd.What does this even mean? Did we not see Kobe repeat less than 3 years ago? Is Melo not in the top 3 forwards in assist percentage this year anyways? What is wrong with you?

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_f=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ast_pct

    74. johnlocke

      Simple solution to that would be Woodson playing them separately for the minutes each is out, or bringing amare off the bench (beating a dead horse) …but he didn’t do any of that. That’s on the coach in my opinion. That’s not on Carmelo.

      hoolahoop:
      Of course, there’s no one to blame but Amare for his accident. But this is also is another Melo casualty. In a game that Amare goes 6-9, he has to watch “ME”-lo hoisting up 26 shots.
      Melo just doesn’t get it. A lot of posters in this forum don’t get it. You don’t win championships playing selfish, iso, hero ball.

    75. JK47

      So, there is no one else to blame but Amar’e, but it is Melo’s fault too. Okay got it.

    76. TelegraphedPass

      And ME-lo is a snooze-worthy name pun. It’s about as hilarious as LeQuit and the like.

    77. TelegraphedPass

      JK47: So, there is no one else to blame but Amar’e, but it is Melo’s fault too. Okay got it.

      #NarrativeLogic

    78. Caleb

      bobneptune: i’m not sure what that link shows other than he was an awful rebounder and shoot blocker.

      he did play with 2 of the best wing defenders of all time.

      as to better defending centers of his era…. how about:

      mark eaton
      caldwell jones
      moses
      mutombo
      kareem
      george johnson
      jack sikma
      hakeem
      ewing
      robinson
      tree rollins
      bill walton
      robert parish
      alonzo mourning
      bob lanier
      artis gilmour

      we could go on and on……..

      Kareem might have been locking down the lane at the 9th street Y but I don’t think there are 5 players on that list who were even in the NBA during Bill’s championship years.

      You had said cartwiright was a terrible defender and only out there for his scoring. You can see from bball reference that’s not true. I’m sorry we have to rely on our memories about the D.

      Sorry you seem to be in such a bad mood.

    79. d-mar

      hoolahoop:
      Of course, there’s no one to blame but Amare for his accident. But this is also is another Melo casualty. In a game that Amare goes 6-9, he has to watch “ME”-lo hoisting up 26 shots.
      Melo just doesn’t get it. A lot of posters in this forum don’t get it. You don’t win championships playing selfish, iso, hero ball.

      Find me the clip or clips where Melo takes on the entire Heat defense and refuses to pass to wide open shooters. The Heat are playing him pretty much straight up, and when they double, it’s only from the weak side.

      I heard Cowherd say this morning that until Melo realizes that scoring 19 and winning is better than scoring 30 and losing, he’ll never be a championship-caliber player. That is just plain idiotic, I’m pretty sure Melo would rather score less and win more.

    80. max fisher-cohen

      johnlocke:
      I don’t think I’ve ever thrown my laptop out the window because I had a bad day. This is like a model having a bad fashion show and clawing her face. His body has allowed him to make $100M …it was worse than ‘screwing up’ …it was pretty damn stupid. Having said that, that’s not the reason I think we should look into trading the guy….just don’t think he’s a great fit…some of that is on Woodson, but a lot of it is on his terrible defense

      He was walking down the hall and, clearly with out recognizing that there was a fire extinguisher box there, he punched the wall. I, for one, have punched other people, punched doors, punched basketballs, and probably punched a lot of other things when I lose. I don’t see this as anything but a freak accident.

      Stoudemire carried this team last year. He comes back in the fall, and we’ve built a team that seems designed to see him fail. No point guard, a SF who dominates the ball, and a center who can’t spread the floor. Further, he is injury plagued all year. Is it any wonder he’s struggled? Perhaps rather than trying to sell him at the absolute low point of his career, we might try to do some things to give him a chance of being successful?

      Stoudemire’s #s are also impacted by the fact that he only really played with the good version of the Knicks for about 13 games this season. Most of his minutes came on a team without Davis, JR Smith and Novak getting minutes. Instead, he was playing with TD, Bill Walker, an embarrassingly bad version of Mike Bibby, and a version of Iman Shumpert that couldn’t make a jump shot. When your guards shoot 20% from three as a group, you’re going to struggle.

    81. JK47

      How many other players in the league need such perfect conditions for success like Amar’e? It seems like he’s the most context-dependent player in the league or something.

      Make sure he’s on a team with a great point guard and lots of shooters to spread the floor, a center who can also spread the floor and no other high-usage teammates, then he’ll be good. There are plenty of other star players in this league who are pretty damn good without being surrounded with completely optimal companion pieces.

      The truth is that Amar’e is extremely one-dimensional, and thus not really all that valuable.

    82. Doug

      JK47: The truth is that Amar’e is extremely one-dimensional, and thus not really all that valuable.

      More like “The truthiness is that Amare is extremely one-dimensional and thus not really all that valuable.”

      You have the right to be irrational and contextless because of what happened last night but at least TRY not be so reductionist about things.

    83. johnlocke

      My biggest issue with Stoudemire is his lousy effort on defense. Once again, everyone is focusing on the offense, but besides game 1 when a confluence of incidents occurred for us to lose the game in the 2nd quarter… our issue is poor defense. We’ve allowed 100 points 2 games in a row. We won’t win doing that. The Heat are a great defensive team, they are not a juggernaut offensive team. None of your points below address the other 50% of the game. He carried the Knicks last year yes — he also played Center and was still poor on defense, but luckily the league doesn’t have many great offensive centers. In either case, I’m pretty sure we won’t trade him in the off-season, we will wait until the trade deadline, when it’s proven once again, that he doesn’t play well with Melo and Chandler. Hopefully his trade value will have improved by then. Two roadmaps to a championship in my mind – 1 or 2 Top 5-10 players (we don’t have that) or a really good balanced team with a very good player (Melo) that plays great defense. Amare is not going to learn to play defense after 10 years in the league. I have nothing against him personally, he’s just a bad match with what we have now — and Tyson, Melo or Lin aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. Regarding you punching walls, etc…if you got paid $20M per year to use your hands, I hope you’d have a greater sense of accountability to yourself and your organization/company. Were the hell was all that anger when he was giving and ones away to Lebron on touch fouls?

      <a href="#comment-
      Stoudemire’s #s are also impacted by the fact that he only really played with the good version of the Knicks for about 13 games this season. Most of his minutes came on a team without Davis, JR Smith and Novak getting minutes. Instead, he was playing with TD, Bill Walker, an embarrassingly bad version of Mike Bibby, and a version of Iman Shumpert that couldn’t make a jump shot…

    84. JK47

      What dimension does Amar’e have besides scoring at the rim? Perimeter shooting? His jump shot has been awful all season. Passing? No. Defense? Ahem, no. Rebounding? He’s mediocre at that. Describe to me how he is not one-dimensional.

    85. TelegraphedPass

      JK47: How many other players in the league need such perfect conditions for success like Amar’e? It seems like he’s the most context-dependent player in the league or something.Make sure he’s on a team with a great point guard and lots of shooters to spread the floor, a center who can also spread the floor and no other high-usage teammates, then he’ll be good. There are plenty of other star players in this league who are pretty damn good without being surrounded with completely optimal companion pieces.The truth is that Amar’e is extremely one-dimensional, and thus not really all that valuable.

      Just because a player is somewhat one-dimensional doesn’t make him less valuable, especially when he’s as good at that one dimension as STAT is. He’s a dominant scorer. You can build a highly efficient offense around his talents. But as you say: He needs very specific conditions to operate at full capacity.

      STAT may not be a very great all-around player, but he’s one of the best scorers in the league when given the chance to showcase.

      I’m hoping another GM sees this value and we can make a good trade. Or that he can rework his game along with Carmelo to make a more fluid offense. I like STAT, and would like him to stick around, but I’m definitely a bit interested in a STAT-Bargs swap.

    86. Bruno Almeida

      JK47:
      How many other players in the league need such perfect conditions for success like Amar’e? It seems like he’s the most context-dependent player in the league or something.

      Make sure he’s on a team with a great point guard and lots of shooters to spread the floor, a center who can also spread the floor and no other high-usage teammates, then he’ll be good. There are plenty of other star players in this league who are pretty damn good without being surrounded with completely optimal companion pieces.

      The truth is that Amar’e is extremely one-dimensional, and thus not really all that valuable.

      yeah, excuses keep getting made all the time to protect him… oh, he needs a PG, he needs spacing, he needs 3 pt shooters around him, he needs a Center who plays outside the paint, he needs an up-tempo offense, he needs to be healthy, he needs to have a coach who coddles him and to feel loved, bla bla bla

      other true stars create good conditions for their teammates; Amare needs the very best ones possible to be effective.

    87. ruruland

      Doug:

      You have the right to be irrational and contextless because of what happened last night but at least TRY not be so reductionist about things.

      I will say this about JK’s post: Amar’e is a multi-dimensional scorer with a point guard. I don’t know if there’s another player, let alone forward in this league who plays better on the move or shoots better catching in shooting rhythm.

      So there is extreme value in those aspects. You can build a great offensive team around him — and I don’t think you need Steve Nash. You just need a good pick and roll point guard like Felton and floor spacing — all of these things have been mentioned time and again and I think they’re true.

      But here is the critical point in all of this: YOU CANNOT build a great defensive team and great offensive team with Amar’e.

      He’ll never be anywhere near as effective with a rim protecting big. There isn’t a rim protecting defensive big who stretches the floor in the NBA outside of Garnett (perhaps).

      So, you cannot maximize Ama’re’s offensive ability without fundamentally limiting your ability to create a defensive team.

      That’s the biggest issue.

      The fact that he’s not a shot creator or supreme attention creator also limits his overall offensive value, even though the metrics haven’t been developed to capture that effect quite yet. One day they will.

      With Melo, you don’t have any of those problems.

      Moving Melo to the 4 and trading Amar’e for a versatile three has to be possible, and it’s the way to go.

      A core of Chandler, Melo, Lin, Shumpert, with versatile two-way players around that can defend on the switch, make open 3pt shots, beat their opponent in rotation would make the Knicks virtually impossible to guard.

      With Lin and Melo you have two distinct offense initiators and creators that must be defended in completely different…

    88. Bruno Almeida

      ruruland: I will say this about JK’s post: Amar’e is a multi-dimensional scorer with a point guard. I don’t know if there’s another player, let alone forward in this league who plays better on the move or shoots better catching in shooting rhythm.

      So there is extreme value in those aspects. You can build a great offensive team around him — and I don’t think you need Steve Nash. You just need a good pick and roll point guard like Felton and floor spacing — all of these things have been mentioned time and again and I think they’re true.

      But here is the critical point in all of this: YOU CANNOT build a great defensive team and great offensive team with Amar’e.

      He’ll never be anywhere near as effective with a rim protecting big. There isn’t a rim protecting defensive big who stretches the floor in the NBA outside of Garnett (perhaps).

      So, you cannot maximize Ama’re’s offensive ability without fundamentally limiting your ability to create a defensive team.

      That’s the biggest issue.

      The fact that he’s not a shot creator or supreme attention creator also limits his overall offensive value, even though the metrics haven’t been developed to capture that effect quite yet. One day they will.

      With Melo, you don’t have any of those problems.

      Moving Melo to the 4 and trading Amar’e for a versatile three has to be possible, and it’s the way to go.

      A core of Chandler, Melo, Lin, Shumpert, with versatile two-way players around that can defend on the switch, make open 3pt shots, beat their opponent in rotation would make the Knicks virtually impossible to guard.

      With Lin and Melo you have two distinct offense initiators and creators that must be defended in completely different…

      let’s hope Indiana crashes against Orlando so we can offer them Amare for Paul George and George Hill

    89. johnlocke

      To put further stress on my point above regarding the importance of defense….we have won 6 games all season where the other team scored 100 pts or more …6!

    90. Will the Thrill

      Melo at the 4 was good for the time we had him there, but there is no way he can play there all year. Even if he does a good job defending some of the bigger guys, he will really struggle rebounding on both ends just because of his height (even worse than Amar’e). Also, against teams with big power forwards in the post (Griffin, Gasol, Aldridge, Bosh, maybe Amare :o , et. al) I believe he will struggle defensively, also.

      ruruland: Moving Melo to the 4 and trading Amar’e for a versatile three has to be possible, and it’s the way to go.

    91. Will the Thrill

      I don’t know why but I’m way more worried about Shumpert than Amar’e returning to form, or even this series with Miami.

    92. max fisher-cohen

      I agree that your defense will always be hurt as a result of Stoudemire, and if we could trade him at this point for enough to get this team to a championship level, I’d be all for it. I don’t see that as a possibility though. At best, you MIGHT get enough to replace the production we’re almost definitely going to lose from JR Smith and Novak evacuating the premises. I see that as a 50 win team.

      Stoudemire, more than ever now, is a moneyball player. He has lots of flaws that are driving his value way down in the eyes of those who use conventional criterion, but if you put him in the right position to succeed, he can totally outplay his value on the trade market. No, he’ll never be a $20m man, but as we wasted our amnesty clause on Billups (the one major demerit on Grunwald’s track record — not finding a way to move sign Chandler without wasting the amnesty clause) viewing things through that lens is useless.

      I agree that if you were going to start a team and you were picking between Anthony and Stoudemire as primary scorers, because of the defense he’s exhibited this year, Anthony would be the easy selection, but the bottom line is we’re not, and if the decision moving forward is between trading Stoudemire for another overpaid player with similar holes in his game (maybe Kevin Martin? Just as much a sieve on defense as STAT), and trading Melo at the absolute pinnacle of his trade value, the only option (again, if you’re shooting for a championship) is to trade Melo for some younger high risk, high reward players that suit STAT’s style. At least if it doesn’t work out, you amp up STATs trade value before moving him. Example of a potential trade:

      Knicks get: Paul George, Nic Batum (sign and trade), Dahntay Jones
      Indiana gets: Carmelo Anthony, Jamal Crawford
      Portland gets: Lance Stephenson, George Hill, 2 Indiana first round picks

      Lin, Nic Batum, Paul George, Stoudemire, Chandler.

      sixth man: Shumpert

    93. nicos

      ruruland: I will say this about JK’s post: Amar’e is a multi-dimensional scorer with a point guard. I don’t know if there’s another player, let alone forward in this league who plays better on the move or shoots better catching in shooting rhythm.

      So there is extreme value in those aspects. You can build a great offensive team around him — and I don’t think you need Steve Nash. You just need a good pick and roll point guard like Felton and floor spacing — all of these things have been mentioned time and again and I think they’re true.

      But here is the critical point in all of this: YOU CANNOT build a great defensive team and great offensive team with Amar’e.

      He’ll never be anywhere near as effective with a rim protecting big. There isn’t a rim protecting defensive big who stretches the floor in the NBA outside of Garnett (perhaps).

      So, you cannot maximize Ama’re’s offensive ability without fundamentally limiting your ability to create a defensive team.

      That’s the biggest issue.

      The fact that he’s not a shot creator or supreme attention creator also limits his overall offensive value, even though the metrics haven’t been developed to capture that effect quite yet. One day they will.

      With Melo, you don’t have any of those problems.

      Moving Melo to the 4 and trading Amar’e for a versatile three has to be possible, and it’s the way to go.

      A core of Chandler, Melo, Lin, Shumpert, with versatile two-way players around that can defend on the switch, make open 3pt shots, beat their opponent in rotation would make the Knicks virtually impossible to guard.

      With Lin and Melo you have two distinct offense initiators and creators that must be defended in completely different…

      Do you think Melo can handle a full year of banging at the four and still maintain his offensive production?

    94. Doug

      Bruno Almeida: let’s hope Indiana crashes against Orlando so we can offer them Amare for Paul George and George Hill

      lol I always get those two confused for each other.

      In any case, after how much of a cruel anomaly this season has been, I think the team as it is deserves a long look when everyone is healthy. Remember, the Knicks were manhandling teams when Lin, Amare, and Melo were all healthy and playing together.

      The onus is on Woodson, if he’s re-signed, to devise an offensive system that will make everything mesh together. If he can’t do it, then he’s not our coach of the future. (D’Antoni definitely could do it, given enough time. This is the first time I’ve kind of missed him.) I’m going to give it one offseason and the first half of next season for everything to mesh. ESPECIALLY the long-awaited Melo-Amare PnR. Waiting for that play to develop is like watching Power Rangers and waiting for an episode where the Ultrazord shows up. If the offense not working by next midseason, I will join the chorus of voices chanting for Amare to be traded for complementary pieces.

      Someone on P&T brought up Memphis or Dallas as potential models for the Knicks offense. The offensive efficiency numbers seem to be almost identical. Memphis has a diverse group of players and everyone gets to do their own thing. Randolph gets postups, Gay gets isos, Gasol gets pick and pops, and Conley gets to come of screens. Dallas has a whole assortment of plays they run with Dirk: PnRs, pick and pops, curls and isos. There’s no reason why given an offseason Amare can’t be integrated into an offense in a similar way. If Woodson is worth his salt as a coach, he’ll figure something out. If he doesn’t, get rid of him.

      There’s no need to make knee jerk decisions just because they’d feel cathartic. There are plenty of reasons to have rational, measured optimism…

    95. Doug

      Will the Thrill:
      I don’t know why but I’m way more worried about Shumpert than Amar’e returning to form, or even this series with Miami.

      What encourages me the most is that Tony Allen also tore an ACL early in his career. In this case Shump’s youth and beastly physical gifts will probably go a long way to expediting his healing process.

    96. nicos

      Melo looks tired to me- at least compared to the energy level he showed during that great run with Amar’e out. Maybe it’s Amar’e's presence, I guess we’ll see in the next two games. But I have my doubts as to whether he can defend the post on a regular basis and still have the energy to be really successful on offense.

      Two: I’m not sure Melo and Lin are a good mix- Melo needs the ball in his hands to get his rhythm and Lin clearly likes to dominate the ball. At no point this year did they play well together.

    97. Doug

      max fisher-cohen: Just as much a sieve on defense as STAT), and trading Melo at the absolute pinnacle of his trade value, the only option (again, if you’re shooting for a championship) is to trade Melo for some younger high risk, high reward players that suit STAT’s style. At least if it doesn’t work out, you amp up STATs trade value before moving him.

      This is a great point; STAT’s trade value (especially after Glass 1: Amare 0) is in a trough right now. It’d be a mistake to trade him right away.

    98. ruruland

      nicos: Do you think Melo can handle a full year of banging at the four and still maintain his offensive production?

      Without a doubt. I think the thing that wears him down more than banging is chasing small forwards around all day.

      He would actually stay fresher and keep the pop in his legs over the full season.

      And Max, speaking of moneyball and supply/demand, there is a dearth of players capable of doing what Amar’e can do in said situations. There are plenty of wings who can make open jump shots and defend — you find them in every draft.

      So, while the uninsurable aspect, the salary number and the injury history are problems, it’s very difficult to imagine him being untradeable.

      I posted about 5 or 6 scenarios I think are plausible and would give the Knicks a much more synergistic roster and more flexibility.

      There have been worse contracts than traded.

    99. ruruland

      Doug: . ESPECIALLY the long-awaited Melo-Amare PnR. Waiting for that play to develop is like watching Power Rangers and waiting for an episode where the Ultrazord shows up.

      lmao, we saw a dunk out of it last night.

    100. ruruland

      nicos:
      Melo looks tired to me- at least compared to the energy level he showed during that great run with Amar’e out.

      He looked tired to you? Hmm. 45 minutes chasing Lebron around and creating all of your own offense takes a bit of energy (let’s remember that Melo guarded Lebron way out on the perimeter, Lebron guarded Melo maybe half the time)…..

    101. johnlocke

      Interesting proposal. I think a rule of thumb is you never trade your best player unless you are in rebuild mode (you’ll never get someone better). You end up with teams like the Nuggets with lots of good players but no stars. Given that we already have Melo, we have more ability to trade Amare for fit and not superstar talent. Trades that have been suggested that I think could make sense are: Amare for Humphries, Gerald Wallace and Morrow, or Amare for Ryan Anderson and Hedo Turkoglu — these are both teams looking for a star player, w/ pt guards capable of running the pick and roll. We can trade Amare for depth and fit.

      I think Stoudemire’s value in this league is not as low as you think. In either case, I doubt he gets traded until closer to the trade deadline where he’ll be healthy Amare. It’s really hard to win when your PF, a key help defender on hedges/picks and penetration is playing porous defense, unless your offense is amazing. That’s a way to rack up wins in the regular season, but not to win a championship IMHO.

      max fisher-cohen:
      Example of a potential trade:

      Knicks get: Paul George, Nic Batum (sign and trade), Dahntay Jones
      Indiana gets: Carmelo Anthony, Jamal Crawford
      Portland gets: Lance Stephenson, George Hill, 2 Indiana first round picks

      Lin, Nic Batum, Paul

    102. ruruland

      nicos:

      Two: I’m not sure Melo and Lin are a good mix- Melo needs the ball in his hands to get his rhythm and Lin clearly likes to dominate the ball.At no point this year did they play well together.

      But this is a situation where you can see huge growth. Young point guards can develop a lot. Melo, historically, has been most efficient when he is fed some easy looks (before he had 3pt shot).

      Moreover, there should be create synergy with Lin playing off the ball with Melo– in fact, we saw it quite a bit in the limited amount of Melo isos when they played together — Lin getting open 3s and then driving against wrong-footed defenders.

      What we haven’t seen is much success between Lin and Amar’e. That would make both of them ineffective (if Lin can’t find Ama’re as a roller and Amar’e doesn;t free up Lin in the screen game)

      You want diversity in the offense that also can aslo be complementary — with Lin and Melo you have two separate attacks.

      With Lin and Amar’e you get one that may not be effective.

    103. TelegraphedPass

      I highly doubt Brooklyn (it feels so weird to say this now) agrees to sending both Hump and Gerald Wallace with BBP. I’m assuming BBP is the necessary part of the deal, as we need shooters and he’s a fantastic one. My guess is they’re willing to surrender either Kris or Gerald but not both. Still, you’ve got to think they seriously consider pairing D-Will with STAT. They could build a pretty strong team with that tandem. Then they retain Brook Lopez and get approximately all of the points and none of the rebounds.

    104. ruruland

      johnlocke:
      Interesting proposal. I think a rule of thumb is you never trade your best player unless you are in rebuild mode (you’ll never get someone better).You end up with teams like the Nuggets with lots of good players but no stars. Given that we already have Melo, we have more ability to trade Amare for fit and not superstar talent. Trades that have been suggested that I think could make sense are: Amare for Humphries, Gerald Wallace and Morrow, or Amare for Ryan Anderson and Hedo Turkoglu — these are both teams looking for a star player, w/ pt guards capable of running the pick and roll. We can trade Amare for depth and fit.

      Some of those might be long shots. Anderson is being exposed as a complementary player, so maybe Orlando considers that. but if they don’t, Is there really any reason to doubt they wouldn’t do an Amar’e for Jason Richardson/Hedo Turkoglu deal???

      Not great defensively, but that’s a huge upgrade offensively and ADDS diversity without running into diminishing returns problems.

      I love the Morrow/Wallace deal. brian is concerned that there’s a huge market for Wallace which would inflate his cost. I truly doubt that.

      The beauty of that deal, if it’s done ASAP, is that it might allow NJ to re-sign Williams. For the Knicks, you have the Nets sign Wallace to a 2 or 3 year deal at the max, 13-14 million dollars.

      You bring in a moneyball player that’s a perfect fit for the roster with Melo at the 4, and you free up money to sign Novak.Smith.

    105. ruruland

      TelegraphedPass:
      I highly doubt Brooklyn (it feels so weird to say this now) agrees to sending both Hump and Gerald Wallace with BBP. I’m assuming BBP is the necessary part of the deal, as we need shooters and he’s a fantastic one. My guess is they’re willing to surrender either Kris or Gerald but not both. Still, you’ve got to think they seriously consider pairing D-Will with STAT. They could build a pretty strong team with that tandem. Then they retain Brook Lopez and get approximately all of the points and none of the rebounds.

      That’s what I’m thinking.

      you bring in 85 percent of the salary and all of a sudden you have flexibility to sign at least JR Smith and perhaps Novak.

      Starters: lin, shump, wallace, melo, chandler

      bench: pg, Morrow, Novak, Smith, Jordan, Harrelson

      that’s filthy, perfectly synergistic, incredibly versatile on both ends of the court. that’s a team that would have a real chance at beating Miami.

    106. Doug

      ruruland: lmao, we saw a dunk out of it last night.

      Why don’t we run that play like ALL the time??

      Also, while your proposed Nets trade makes me uncomfortable at this point, Morrow and Novak on the floor at the same time would be ungodly. Together they could erase deficits or blow games wide open within seconds.

    107. Brian Cronin

      The concern with Wallace is not his market, it is the fact that the Knicks would have to give him a raise on his already over-priced $9.5 million a year contract to make salaries work and at least three years (probably four or five) to get him to agree to it (remember, he has already opted out of a 2-year/$18 million contract, so he is not signing for 2 years/$20 million), and I don’t think he is worth that. I’d just as soon keep STAT.

    108. yellowboy90

      I am scared Of Hedo. He doesn’t do well outside of orlando. I like the idea of Ariza and okafor. I do not know if this is allowed but I bet teams will want the Knicks to pay some of the money if they traded Amar’e.

    109. ruruland

      Doug: Why don’t we run that play like ALL the time??

      Also, while your proposed Nets trade makes me uncomfortable at this point, Morrow and Novak on the floor at the same time would be ungodly. Together they could erase deficits or blow games wide open within seconds.

      It’d be a sight. I like Amar’e a lot, too. So I get it.

    110. TelegraphedPass

      Would you rather have Hump or Wallace, though? I’m not sure I love getting Wallace over Humphries. Hump’s energy and rebounding is tremendous, and makes up for his defensive weaknesses.

      Hump is a decent scorer in the post too. Not anything good enough to be a primary option by any means, but you can run a couple post plays each game for him. His Synergy numbers in the post look pretty solid too.

      I’m concerned about Wallace’s scoring numbers recently, as well as his slightly declining rebounding.

    111. Brian Cronin

      Would you rather have Hump or Wallace, though? I’m not sure I love getting Wallace over Humphries. Hump’s energy and rebounding is tremendous, and makes up for his defensive weaknesses.

      Hump is a decent scorer in the post too. Not anything good enough to be a primary option by any means, but you can run a couple post plays each game for him. His Synergy numbers in the post look pretty solid too.

      I’m concerned about Wallace’s scoring numbers recently, as well as his slightly declining rebounding.

      Hump and Morrow for STAT would be great. Hump, they’d have to give a big money contract to, as well. The difference is that Hump is probably worth $40 million for four years right now (and he might actually get it from another team).

    112. Bruno Almeida

      ruruland: That’s what I’m thinking.

      you bring in 85 percent of the salary and all of a sudden you have flexibility to sign at least JR Smith and perhaps Novak.

      Starters: lin, shump, wallace, melo, chandler

      bench: pg, Morrow, Novak, Smith, Jordan, Harrelson

      that’s filthy, perfectly synergistic, incredibly versatile on both ends of the court. that’s a team that would have a real chance at beating Miami.

      I like that move, but I’m concerned that Wallace may be going downhill too fast, his production has declined big time… some of it has to do with changing teams and everything, but it’s kind of a red flag.

      I’d still do the trade anyway, specially if it keeps Novak and Smith.

      I’d rather see a younger wing or a cheaper PF in place of Wallace, but nobody will give us that for this version of Amare.

    113. TelegraphedPass

      Doug: Why don’t we run that play like ALL the time??Also, while your proposed Nets trade makes me uncomfortable at this point, Morrow and Novak on the floor at the same time would be ungodly. Together they could erase deficits or blow games wide open within seconds.

      I’ve been watching a lot more Nets basketball recently, and his stats don’t show how much Morrow has grown as a scorer. He’s much more comfortable putting the ball on the floor this year. I’ve noticed the team run a solid amount of post plays for Morrow, and he’s making them count. I never thought he would be the type of player to use the post as a reliable method of scoring, but his length makes it tough for opposing 2s to cover him on that jumper.

      He’s also a decent defender. Horrible at fighting through screens from what I’ve seen, and still super skinny, but defends intelligently given his limitations. I would love to see him in blue and orange next season.

    114. ruruland

      yellowboy90:
      I am scared Of Hedo. He doesn’t do well outside of orlando. I like the idea of Ariza and okafor. I do not know if this is allowed but I bet teams will want the Knicks to pay some of the money if they traded Amar’e.

      Ariza is an inconsistent 3pt shooter but would get a lot more spot up ops in New York.

      Okafor has a little bit of a post up game — is an average defender for center but a plus defender for pf.

      The reason I love the Wallace deal is of course that Wallace is still 29, just two years removed from posting 585 ts (586 year before), and is the perfect kind of scorer on a Melo/Lin team.

      Decent shooter, but great in transition, posting up, facing up and driving by against rotation, and offensive rebounds.

      When you move Melo to the 4, you give Wallace the opportunity to play against power forwards on offense (and he can guard 3 positions himself)……

      When you throw in what he does defensively, the steals the blocks and the man-defense, even if he’s the 28-year old Wallace, he’s the perfect player on this team.

      Plus, you add shooting in Morrow and give Jordan an opportunity.

    115. Bruno Almeida

      Brian Cronin: Hump and Morrow for STAT would be great. Hump, they’d have to give a big money contract to, as well. The difference is that Hump is probably worth $40 million for four years right now (and he might actually get it from another team).

      we could ask for Hump, Morrow and Farmar (he’s way better than TD as a backup PG, is shooting 3s really well and has playoff experience), that would be a very fair trade for us, and would help us maximize the talent we already have on this roster imo.

    116. ruruland

      TelegraphedPass:
      Would you rather have Hump or Wallace, though? I’m not sure I love getting Wallace over Humphries. Hump’s energy and rebounding is tremendous, and makes up for his defensive weaknesses.

      Hump is a decent scorer in the post too. Not anything good enough to be a primary option by any means, but you can run a couple post plays each game for him. His Synergy numbers in the post look pretty solid too.

      I’m concerned about Wallace’s scoring numbers recently, as well as his slightly declining rebounding.

      Portland sucked the life out of him. Not only was he redundant with their other players, but he played in an extremely slow-paced environment.

      Moreover, it would allow him to play against 4s on offense. Humphries would be great, too.

    117. nicos

      ruruland: But this is a situation where you can see huge growth. Young point guards can develop a lot. Melo, historically, has been most efficient when he is fed some easy looks (before he had 3pt shot).

      Moreover, there should be create synergy with Lin playing off the ball with Melo– in fact, we saw it quite a bit in the limited amount of Melo isos when they played together — Lin getting open 3s and then driving against wrong-footed defenders.

      What we haven’t seen is much success between Lin and Amar’e. That would make both of them ineffective (if Lin can’t find Ama’re as a roller and Amar’e doesn;t free up Lin in the screen game)

      You want diversity in the offense that also can aslo be complementary — with Lin and Melo you have two separate attacks.

      With Lin and Amar’e you get one that may not be effective.

      Melo with Lin as starter: 15.8 pts on .469% TS. Amar’e with Lin as starter: 16.9 pts on .571 TS%. And in case you think that’s because it includes Melo’s crappy play during the last days of D’A, his numbers were worse (14 pts. on .459% TS after Woodson took over). Yeah, Lin and Melo chemistry should improve but so should the Lin/Amar’e Chemistry. The Knicks ran plenty of pnr with Amar’e with Chandler on the floor during that stretch and it worked fine. The advantage of having Lin/Amar’e pnr as your first option is it generates good shots for both players and keeps the ball in the hands of your point guard who is a better and much more willing passer than Melo. Lin adjusting to Amar’e on the pnr (rather than Chandler, who he preferred) is less of an adjustment than playing off of the ball while Melo iso’s/posts.
      If you can something good for Amar’e, do it- his defense and esp. his health make him suspect but as long as your point guard isn’t Toney Douglas he should never be getting outshot by Melo 2 to 1.

    118. nicos

      That should read If you can get something good for Amar’e.

      And I posted this last night but it bears repeating- Wallace’s rebound rate has dropped from 14.7 to 10.7 in the last two years and his free throw attempts from 6.3 to 3.9- those are real red flags of a real athletic decline- not somebody you really want to overpay for.

    119. TelegraphedPass

      The weird thing about how dominant STAT is in the PnR is that he sets really weak screens. Go and watch video of Stoudemire screens. It’s like halfway between setting and slipping a screen. That’s why he gets so few touches. Sure, an incredible passer like Rondo, Nash, or CP would have no problem threading the needle to hit STAT off of those screens but most PGs just don’t feel comfortable making that pass. Especially against a Heat team flying around intercepting passes and starting the transition.

      A big part of the reason STAT isn’t getting touches is our PG play. Melo is getting those touches because an entry pass is much easier than slipping a bounce pass between two defenders. Baron is able and willing to make those passes, and to a certain extent so is Bibby, but both those guys are hobbled and limited. All of our other PGs are unable or unwilling to make that pass, and STAT’s attempts suffer because of it.

      Not only is that killing STAT’s offense, but after failing to complete a PnR with STAT we’re forced to generate a good look with 10 seconds left on the clock. The ball then almost always ends up in the hands of Melo or JR, leading to poor looks and incorrect judgment of those guys’ offensive abilities.

    120. ruruland

      TelegraphedPass:
      The weird thing about how dominant STAT is in the PnR is that he sets really weak screens. Go and watch video of Stoudemire screens. It’s like halfway between setting and slipping a screen. That’s why he gets so few touches. Sure, an incredible passer like Rondo, Nash, or CP would have no problem threading the needle to hit STAT off of those screens but most PGs just don’t feel comfortable making that pass. Especially against a Heat team flying around intercepting passes and starting the transition.

      A big part of the reason STAT isn’t getting touches is our PG play. Melo is getting those touches because an entry pass is much easier than slipping a bounce pass between two defenders. Baron is able and willing to make those passes, and to a certain extent so is Bibby, but both those guys are hobbled and limited. All of our other PGs are unable or unwilling to make that pass, and STAT’s attempts suffer because of it.

      Not only is that killing STAT’s offense, but after failing to complete a PnR with STAT we’re forced to generate a good look with 10 seconds left on the clock. The ball then almost always ends up in the hands of Melo or JR, leading to poor looks and incorrect judgment of those guys’ offensive abilities.

      great post

    121. nicos

      TelegraphedPass:
      The weird thing about how dominant STAT is in the PnR is that he sets really weak screens. Go and watch video of Stoudemire screens. It’s like halfway between setting and slipping a screen. That’s why he gets so few touches. Sure, an incredible passer like Rondo, Nash, or CP would have no problem threading the needle to hit STAT off of those screens but most PGs just don’t feel comfortable making that pass. Especially against a Heat team flying around intercepting passes and starting the transition.

      A big part of the reason STAT isn’t getting touches is our PG play. Melo is getting those touches because an entry pass is much easier than slipping a bounce pass between two defenders. Baron is able and willing to make those passes, and to a certain extent so is Bibby, but both those guys are hobbled and limited. All of our other PGs are unable or unwilling to make that pass, and STAT’s attempts suffer because of it.

      Running pnr with Stat does take some getting used to- he doesn’t set hard screens and then roll directly to the basket like Chandler. He tends to slip and then move in tandem with the guard. Once they’re moving together he’s incredible at finding space- it takes a little longer to develop but he stays in the play so much longer than Chandler that he can get a lot more shots up. It took Felton about three weeks to figure it out but once he did, they ran it really well. Bibby can move towards the hoop at all which makes it tough to run it with him. Davis still hasn’t adjusted to the fact that he’s a step slower than he used to be but has run it well at times. My issue last night was that Stat was successful just about every time he iso’d (esp. with Novak and Melo at the 3/4 Miami can’t rotate anyone inside and Stat can beat both Haslem and Bosh off of the dribble) and they just didn’t try to get him the ball enough.

    122. ruruland

      nicos: Running pnr with Stat does take some getting used to- he doesn’t set hard screens and then roll directly to the basket like Chandler.He tends to slip and then move in tandem with the guard. Once they’re moving together he’s incredible at finding space- it takes a little longer to develop but he stays in the play so much longer than Chandler that he can get a lot more shots up.It took Felton about three weeks to figure it out but once he did, they ran it really well.Bibby can move towards the hoop at all which makes it tough to run it with him.Davis still hasn’t adjusted to the fact that he’s a step slower than he used to be but has run it well at times.My issue last night was that Stat was successful just about every time he iso’d (esp. with Novak and Melo at the 3/4 Miami can’t rotate anyone inside and Stat can beat both Haslem and Bosh off of the dribble) and they just didn’t try to get him the ball enough.

      Stat should have gotten more isos. The continuity plays with the multiple side pnr and dribble hand-offs was not getting him looks consistently.

    123. johnlocke

      Agreed…but we lost that game on the defensive end folks. Take a look at the shooting % and spots on the floor Miami was taking and making shots from. We actually played well offensively for the most part. We were terrible at guarding cuts to the basket (thanks Fields) pushing guards off the block (thanks JR), contesting shots at the rim (thanks amare) and fouling for and ones (thanks amare). We’re supposed to be a top 5 defensive team, we have not been one so far — missing Shump is HUGE…but that doesn’t explain all the defensive lapses

      nicos: Running pnr with Stat does take some getting used to- he doesn’t set hard screens and then roll directly to the basket like Chandler.He tends to slip and then move in tandem with the guard. Once they’re moving together he’s incredible at finding space- it takes a little longer to develop but he stays in the play so much longer than Chandler that he can get a lot more shots up.It took Felton about three weeks to figure it out but once he did, they ran it really well.Bibby can move towards the hoop at all which makes it tough to run it with him.Davis still hasn’t adjusted to the fact that he’s a step slower than he used to be but has run it well at times.My issue last night was that Stat was successful just about every time he iso’d (esp. with Novak and Melo at the 3/4 Miami can’t rotate anyone inside and Stat can beat both Haslem and Bosh off of the dribble) and they just didn’t try to get him the ball enough.

    124. Will the Thrill

      I know we always compare Gallo to Melo but imagine how well Gallo would play with Melo. He thrives off of driving past rotating defenders and can also spread the floor well will his 3 pointers (I believe his 3′s will improve with the open shots he’d get).

    125. nicos

      johnlocke:
      Agreed…but we lost that game on the defensive end folks. Take a look at the shooting % and spots on the floor Miami was taking and making shots from. We actually played well offensively for the most part. We were terrible at guarding cuts to the basket (thanks Fields) pushing guards off the block (thanks JR), contesting shots at the rim (thanks amare) and fouling for and ones (thanks amare). We’re supposed to be a top 5 defensive team, we have not been one so far — missing Shump is HUGE…but that doesn’t explain all the defensive lapses

      Oh, I agree I was just responding to posters who seemd to be suggesting that Amar’e was a poor pnr player and that he was somehow responsible for Melo being forced to take shots late in the clock. To me the biggest problem has been using Chandler on Bosh- which has pulled Chandler outside and left Amar’e as the rotating big inside. What do you think is going to happen with Amar’e guarding Bosh? Is he going to score 100? Make Bosh beat you and use Chandler to limit LBJ and Wade. It’s a moot point now as Amar’e's probably not playing again this series but other than the first they played Miami Chandler hasn’t really shut down Bosh this year anyway so it just makes no sense to me.

    126. Doug

      TelegraphedPass:
      The weird thing about how dominant STAT is in the PnR is that he sets really weak screens. Go and watch video of Stoudemire screens. It’s like halfway between setting and slipping a screen. That’s why he gets so few touches. Sure, an incredible passer like Rondo, Nash, or CP would have no problem threading the needle to hit STAT off of those screens but most PGs just don’t feel comfortable making that pass. Especially against a Heat team flying around intercepting passes and starting the transition.

      STAT has been slipping screens his entire career. It’s one of the reasons why he’s so unstoppable as a dive man. By not setting a hard screen, he gains an extra step to the basket. He loses his man, he catches the ball in space, buckets follow. However, the timing has to be precise and there has to be chemistry with the point guard. Nash always got him the ball at the right moment, and the results were always devastating.

      D’Antoni was a proponent of slipping screens and he probably ingrained it in STAT from the beginning. He had David Lee routinely slip screens off the PnR with Chris Duhon his first year here.

      You all remember how awful Amare looked the first 20 games of last season before him and Felton got on the same page. Amare was a turnover machine, losing his handle on the drive, passes bouncing off his legs. However, once he and Felton began to click… voila, nine game 30+ points streak.

      Asking Amare to start setting hard screens is asking him to become a different type of PnR roll man than he’s achieved his greatest success with his entire career. Slipping screens isn’t the problem. Point guard chemistry is. Lock Lin and STAT in a gym for a month and have them run high screen and rolls until they get each other’s timing down.

    127. Doug

      nicos: Running pnr with Stat does take some getting used to- he doesn’t set hard screens and then roll directly to the basket like Chandler. He tends to slip and then move in tandem with the guard. Once they’re moving together he’s incredible at finding space- it takes a little longer to develop but he stays in the play so much longer than Chandler that he can get a lot more shots up. It took Felton about three weeks to figure it out but once he did, they ran it really well. Bibby can move towards the hoop at all which makes it tough to run it with him. Davis still hasn’t adjusted to the fact that he’s a step slower than he used to be but has run it well at times. My issue last night was that Stat was successful just about every time he iso’d (esp. with Novak and Melo at the 3/4 Miami can’t rotate anyone inside and Stat can beat both Haslem and Bosh off of the dribble) and they just didn’t try to get him the ball enough.

      lol whoops I basically repeated everything you said re: STAT and slipping screens.

    128. bobneptune

      Caleb: Kareem might have been locking down the lane at the 9th street Y but I don’t think there are 5 players on that list who were even in the NBA during Bill’s championship years.

      You had said cartwiright was a terrible defender and only out there for his scoring. You can see from bball reference that’s not true. I’m sorry we have to rely on our memories about the D.

      Sorry you seem to be in such a bad mood.

      [

      they all played during mr bill's career and were all far superior defenders. how can a man who doesn't rebound an ounce and never blocks a shot ever be considered a "top 5 defender" as a center.

      I mean i didn't even mention mooks like yalie chris dudley who was so much better a defender than cartwright it isn't even a discussion.

      the same year as cartwright's first championship with the bulls:

      kevin willis
      parish
      bol/jayson williams
      ewing
      tree rollins
      jack sikma
      david robinson
      mark eaton
      hakeem
      james donaldson
      herb williams
      kevin duckworth

      not to mention guys like:

      smits
      brad daughtry

    129. 2FOR18

      ruruland:

      There are plenty of wings who can make open jump shots and defend — you find them in every draft.

      Ha, that’s why so many didn’t want to pay max $ to melo. Thanks for getting on board!

    130. 2FOR18

      ruruland: Ariza is an inconsistent 3pt shooter but would get a lot more spot up ops in New York.

      Okafor has a little bit of a post up game — is an average defender for center but a plus defender for pf.

      The reason I love the Wallace deal is of course that Wallace is still 29, just two years removed from posting 585 ts (586 year before), and is the perfect kind of scorer on a Melo/Lin team.

      Decent shooter, but great in transition, posting up, facing up and driving by against rotation, and offensive rebounds.

      When you move Melo to the 4, you give Wallace the opportunity to play against power forwards on offense (and he can guard 3 positions himself)……

      When you throw in what he does defensively, the steals the blocks and the man-defense, even if he’s the 28-year old Wallace, he’s the perfect player on this team.

      Plus, you add shooting in Morrow and give Jordan an opportunity.

      You would almost be duplicating last year’s Dallas team:
      Chandler = Chandler
      Melo = Dirk
      Wallace = Marion
      Lin = Kidd
      Morrow = Terry

    131. Juany8

      The truth about Amar’e is that he can’t be diving to the rim as the roll man with penetrators as bad as JR and Baron Davis, and having Chandler out there makes it really hard to find the spacing to do anything. His offense can still get back to elite levels with a full training camp with Lin in this offense, but the effort on rebounding and defense are honestly pretty pathetic at this point. The Bulls consistently bench Boozer at the end of games because of his defense, and although Amar’e is a better offensive player it is really hard to beat good teams if one of your bigs is basically standing around half the game. I was hoping Amar’e would simply pick up the effort for the playoffs and become passable, but when he simply watched Dwyane Wade dunk while he stood 2 feet from the basket, I gave up all hope

    132. 2FOR18

      nicos: Oh, I agree I was just responding to posters who seemd to be suggesting that Amar’e was a poor pnr player and that he was somehow responsible for Melo being forced to take shots late in the clock.To me the biggest problem has been using Chandler on Bosh- which has pulled Chandler outside and left Amar’e as the rotating big inside.What do you think is going to happen with Amar’e guarding Bosh? Is he going to score 100? Make Bosh beat you and use Chandler to limit LBJ and Wade.It’s a moot point now as Amar’e’s probably not playing again this series but other than the first they played Miami Chandler hasn’t really shut down Bosh this year anyway so it just makes no sense to me.

      I agree. Not sure what Woodson is thinking

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