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Friday, October 31, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Jun 26 2012)

  • [New York Times] Middle School: The New Recruiting Battleground (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 07:39:17 GMT)
    The high caliber of high school basketball around Washington, and the pressure on coaches, has fostered a fierce recruiting environment focused on players in middle school and even fifth grade.

  • [New York Times] Heat Fans Hail a Championship (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 07:09:21 GMT)
    The Miami Heat celebrated their second franchise championship with a massive parade, followed by a festive gathering at AmericanAirlines Arena.

  • [New York Times] Spoelstra Gave Heat a Trophy Before ‘Real’ Trophy (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 08:18:33 GMT)
    Erik Spoelstra has come full circle.

  • [New York Times] Heat Celebrate in the Streets of Miami (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 03:33:11 GMT)
    The NBA championship trophy was center stage, bathed in white light and sitting on a pedestal. And each Miami Heat player offered it a different greeting.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Smith Declines Option Year, Could Re-Sign with Knicks (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 03:56:28 GMT)
    J.R. Smith declined his option year with the Knicks, but could still return to the team on a new contact.

  • [New York Post] Knicks still likely to sign J.R. in free agency (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 04:05:32 -0500)
    J.R. Smith will become a free agent Sunday as he has decided not to exercise the opt-in clause on his contract at today’s deadline, according to sources.
    The Knicks remain confident he will re-sign with them for the 20-percent raise that is allowable, according to a source. With…

  • [New York Post] Coach sure Lin will return after L.A. star dinners (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 02:54:17 -0500)
    Mike Woodson may have sealed the deal in Hollywood with Jeremy Lin.
    Woodson returned from a five-day bonding session in Los Angeles with Lin, Carmelo Anthony and Tyson Chandler, and is more positive than ever Lin will re-sign with the Knicks this July.
    In his first in-person interview since being…

  • [New York Post] Kidd open to giving Knicks, Nets an assist (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 02:20:01 -0500)
    There is a chance that the Knicks and the Brooklyn Nets will be in pursuit of Jason Kidd, and the 39-year-old point guard admits that is an intriguing scenario.
    “It’s a possibility, I wouldn’t rule that out, to come back here to New York to finish my career…

  • [New York Newsday] Lin bonding with Melo, Chandler (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 01:14:39 EDT)
    Jeremy Lin has been working out in California and recently had dinner with Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler and Mike Woodson on the West Coast.

  • [New York Daily News] Isola: Knicks reach twit’s end with Amar’e? (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 07:08:27 GMT)
    Amar’e Stoudemire has been on such a bad run lately that pretty soon no one in or outside the Knicks’ organization will want to take credit for recruiting him to New York.

  • [New York Daily News] Raissman: Amar’e should chill with anti-social media (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 07:07:25 GMT)
    When it comes to the media, James (Guitar Jimmy) Dolan is known for running an uptight organization. Some would even dare suggest there is some paranoia involved, at least if you think having Knicks PR operatives shadowing reporters is strange.

  • [New York Daily News] Donnie Walsh back with Pacers (Tue, 26 Jun 2012 00:42:26 GMT)
    Ex-Knicks president Donnie Walsh, ousted by Garden chairman Jim Dolan last June after he was offered a 40% pay cut, is returning to the Indiana Pacers.

  • 58 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Jun 26 2012)

    1. Frank

      2FOR18:
      Anyone know anything about Khris Middleton?Draft Express has the Knicks taking him.I don’t like what I see in the stats, or the write up, at all.He sounds like a homeless man’s version of melo.

      http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Khris-Middleton-6332/

      Chad Ford’s writeup on him indicates that some execs think he is a young Richard Hamilton. That sounds better than homeless man’s Melo.

      That said – I think we need more pure shooters on this team even if we end up resigning both JR and Novak.

    2. New Guy

      From Larry Coon’s Twitter last night:

      “Full explanation coming tomorrow on the Knicks, Lin, the arbitration decision, the appeal, and why the Knicks are in big trouble.”

      Can’t wait. Probably some inside information that indicates the NBA’s appeal will succeed.

    3. 2FOR18

      Frank: Chad Ford’s writeup on him indicates that some execs think he is a young Richard Hamilton. That sounds better than homeless man’s Melo.

      That said – I think we need more pure shooters on this team even if we end up resigning both JR and Novak.

      Who does Ford have the Knicks taking?

    4. danvt

      I don’t think the Knick are in “big trouble” if the NBA wins the appeal. It might work out even better. You know, in the back of everybody’s mind the idea of giving Dolan a higher credit limit does seem a bit scary. As long as we have the inside track and can get Lin back we’re looking good. That is, as long as everyone stays healthy, which was really our undoing last year. I like Novak and JR, and obviously they won jobs last year, but they’re bench players. This team goes as far as Carmelo, Amar’e, Tyson, and Jlin take us next year, no matter what the arbitrator says. God, I hate this ffin legal purgatory though. Another July of us sitting here wondering what this team is gonna look like and getting NO ANSWERS. It’s enough to make you wanna ditch the whole league.

    5. d-mar

      Well if this doesn’t motivate the Knicks players for next season, nothing will:

      “Dwyane Wade and LeBron James took a shot at the Knicks during a postgame interview on NBA TV after the Heat clinched the NBA title. They discussed the doubt after the Heat trailed Indiana and Boston. Wade giggled and said: “Don’t forget New York. They said we can lose to New York, too.” To which LeBron added, “They said that would be a tough series.” More laughing ensued. “Nobody who knew anything about basketball said that,” Barkley then said, which had the panel hysterical.”

    6. SeeWhyDee77

      2FOR18:
      Anyone know anything about Khris Middleton?Draft Express has the Knicks taking him.I don’t like what I see in the stats, or the write up, at all.He sounds like a homeless man’s version of melo.

      http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Khris-Middleton-6332/

      I don’t like it. I’m tellin everyone who will listen..Hollis Thompson should be the pick. Legit 6’8″ wing who can shoot and play defense and generally doesn’t make bad decisions. The only way I can see us not scooping Thompson up is if Machado is available or there’s a physical frontcourt player who can defend and rebound worth taking. I read Chad Ford’s latest mock as well and he has us takin Crowder from Marquette. While I am intrigued by his combination of effort, defense/rebounding, physicality, and perimeter game..I don’t like that pick either. I can see him being a healthy Quentin Richardson…but he’s listed at 6’6′ 235 but he measured just under 6’4″ in socks. No. The best pick is Thompson if Machado or that physical frontcourt player isn’t available. The combination of having Thompson and JR Smith may even enable us to sweeten the pot in any possible Douglas deal. With the ruling going in our favor, we should give the mid level to Kidd or Felton and look to secure additional quality depth by seeing if we can package Fields in a S&T with Douglas. There are teams out there that love Fields as much as we do..and if we draft a wing like Thompson we can afford to move Fields and get quality in return. Let’s face it, the only other players on the roster that can bring back somethin worthwhile are Melo, Chandler, Lin, and Shump. And we all know they are not going anywhere.

    7. thenamestsam

      d-mar:
      Well if this doesn’t motivate the Knicks players for next season, nothing will:

      Yeah. I actually got a kick out of that. You can see the video here at about the 6:35 mark:

      http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2012/06/22/0041100405_gt_post_lebron_wade.nba/

      It’s a “confront your own bias” moment to realize that for as much as we were all talking up the Knicks chances around here the Heat weren’t too worried. Seeing how cavalier they are about it is pretty hysterical to me. At the same time I do hope Melo saw that and realized that these guys who have been considered his peers were literally laughing about how easy it is to beat his team. Get a little fire in his belly.

      danvt:
      I like Novak and JR, and obviously they won jobs last year, but they’re bench players.This team goes as far as Carmelo, Amar’e, Tyson, and Jlin take us next year, no matter what the arbitrator says.

      I agree with this. Obviously it’s great that the arbitrator ruled in our favor, and it’s a very good thing to have depth over 82 games. But ultimately this was going to be a playoff team either way, and in the playoffs it’s your top 7 or 8 guys who are going to determine your fate. If those guys really are good enough then we have a chance. If not, then the difference between having Landry Fields or JKidd as your 4th guard isn’t going to swing it for you. It’s just not.

    8. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      SeeWhyDee77: I don’t like it. I’m tellin everyone who will listen..Hollis Thompson should be the pick. Legit 6’8? wing who can shoot and play defense and generally doesn’t make bad decisions. The only way I can see us not scooping Thompson up is if Machado is available or there’s a physical frontcourt player who can defend and rebound worth taking. I read Chad Ford’s latest mock as well and he has us takin Crowder from Marquette. While I am intrigued by his combination of effort, defense/rebounding, physicality, and perimeter game..I don’t like that pick either. I can see him being a healthy Quentin Richardson…but he’s listed at 6’6? 235 but he measured just under 6’4? in socks. No. The best pick is Thompson if Machado or that physical frontcourt player isn’t available. The combination of having Thompson and JR Smith may even enable us to sweeten the pot in any possible Douglas deal. With the ruling going in our favor, we should give the mid level to Kidd or Felton and look to secure additional quality depth by seeing if we can package Fields in a S&T with Douglas. There are teams out there that love Fields as much as we do..and if we draft a wing like Thompson we can afford to move Fields and get quality in return. Let’s face it, the only other players on the roster that can bring back somethin worthwhile are Melo, Chandler, Lin, and Shump. And we all know they are not going anywhere.

      http://wagesofwins.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/2012-Draft-Model3.png

      Machado would be great, but I will jump ship permanently if they pick Thompson or Middleton. They’re both “projects” who put up awful numbers in college.

    9. New Guy

      thenamestsam: If not, then the difference between having Landry Fields or JKidd as your 4th guard isn’t going to swing it for you. It’s just not.

      I disagree. Teams attack your weakness in the playoffs. And opposing teams light up at the sight of Landry Fields on the floor.

    10. 2FOR18

      SeeWhyDee77: I don’t like it. I’m tellin everyone who will listen..Hollis Thompson should be the pick. Legit 6’8? wing who can shoot and play defense and generally doesn’t make bad decisions. The only way I can see us not scooping Thompson up is if Machado is available or there’s a physical frontcourt player who can defend and rebound worth taking. I read Chad Ford’s latest mock as well and he has us takin Crowder from Marquette. While I am intrigued by his combination of effort, defense/rebounding, physicality, and perimeter game..I don’t like that pick either. I can see him being a healthy Quentin Richardson…but he’s listed at 6’6? 235 but he measured just under 6’4? in socks. No. The best pick is Thompson if Machado or that physical frontcourt player isn’t available. The combination of having Thompson and JR Smith may even enable us to sweeten the pot in any possible Douglas deal. With the ruling going in our favor, we should give the mid level to Kidd or Felton and look to secure additional quality depth by seeing if we can package Fields in a S&T with Douglas. There are teams out there that love Fields as much as we do..and if we draft a wing like Thompson we can afford to move Fields and get quality in return. Let’s face it, the only other players on the roster that can bring back somethin worthwhile are Melo, Chandler, Lin, and Shump. And we all know they are not going anywhere.

      I like Thompson a lot more than this Middleton guy, as Thompson can shoot, but for some reason he’s not in the mocks I’ve seen.
      I like Kevin Jones if they go for a rebounder type.

    11. thenamestsam

      New Guy: I disagree.Teams attack your weakness in the playoffs.And opposing teams light up at the sight of Landry Fields on the floor.

      My point is that unless we have serious injury problems again Landry wasn’t seeing the floor in any serious capacity in the playoffs either way. Lin, Shump, Melo, Amare, Tyson, JR, Novak are probably the top 7 with or without the ruling by the arbitrator (I guess there’s a chance they may have lost Novak, but the difference between him and 3 pt shooter X they would have replaced him with is probably small). The real difference is that now we should have a more adequate 4th guard than Landry. But we’re talking about a guy who’s going to ideally be getting 5-8 minutes a game. It’s not completely irrelevant, and obviously with injuries that guy can be forced into a more prominent role, but the questions surrounding both the fit and the fundamental quality of the actual top guys are way, way more important than the quality of the 4th guard. That”s what I was trying to say.

    12. New Guy

      I see.

      Unfortunately it seems Landry is always getting more than the 5-8 minutes he would ideally get.

      Overall, though, with our top 2 not being as good as the other top twos, I think we need some decisive edges filling out the rotation. So I don’t agree with the idea that we’ll go as far as Amar’e and Carmelo take us. Well, I don’t want to agree with it b/c I think think we all know they’re not going to take us all the way, so to get where we want to go it’s vital we nail those 5-8 spots. Glen has done an outstanding job of that so far.

    13. Frank

      2FOR18: Who does Ford have the Knicks taking?

      Jae Crowder from Marquette. I kinda don’t see it – he’s really small but maybe he can shoot it well enough to make it in the league. He certainly sounds like he has all the other qualities.

      New Guy:
      From Larry Coon’s Twitter last night:

      “Full explanation coming tomorrow on the Knicks, Lin, the arbitration decision, the appeal, and why the Knicks are in big trouble.”

      Can’t wait.Probably some inside information that indicates the NBA’s appeal will succeed.

      Hopefully it’s not the same nonsense he was spouting on ESPNradio over the weekend — which basically is that he expects the NBA will hang the Knicks out to dry by waiting the maximum time to file an appeal and dragging the whole thing out. I’m no lawyer and certainly have no insight into Stern’s thinking, but I am of the opinion that it makes him look bad and the league in general look terrible to have that kind of uncertainty hanging over two of the best stories in the NBA last year (Novak and Lin). With all the bad press from the lockout which was then followed by such a great playoffs, I can’t imagine Stern wants to flop back to terrible press again. There’s very little to be lost for the league to agree to give Lin/Novak/Billups/Hickson their bird rights for this free agent period and have whatever appeal process result take effect from that point forward. Berman and Hahn have suggested that the settlement could be that these 4 get their EB rights but hereon out EB rights don’t go with waived contracts — but I can’t imagine the NBPA agreeing to that — they just won the initial arbitration so why would they agree to a reversal of that without even a hearing?

    14. SeeWhyDee77

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: http://wagesofwins.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/2012-Draft-Model3.png

      Machado would be great, but I will jump ship permanently if they pick Thompson or Middleton. They’re both “projects” who put up awful numbers in college.

      I agree Machado would be awesome. As far as Thompson goes..Georgetown’s offense doesn’t really have room for individual stats. But it’s been noted that Thompson’s real weaknesses are ball handling and physical strength- which can both be easily improved. He has a great shot from anywhere, he’s athletic..albeit not super athletic, and he has a great BBall IQ. In my book that makes him a younger cheaper version of Fields but with a better shot. And that’s exactly why I think we should pick him up if Machado or some physical/defending/rebounding big isn’t there. If Machado isn’t there it’s not that big of a deal because of the Bird Rights ruling. I’m not suggesting Thompson because I think he’s a world beater cuz I don’t..i’m suggesting it because in theory it should give us a little more roster flexibility going forward as our backs are kinda against the wall cap wise. In this situation..Thompson fits because of our draft position and the prospects most likely to be available at our spot.

    15. ephus

      I agree with Frank that the NBA is not likely to screw around on process in order to put the Knicks in limbo on July 11. Given the frayed relationship with the union, it would make sense to compromise on process (if not substance) so that we get to a resolution before decisions have to be made. The NBA would also risk that the union or the Knicks would run to federal court seeking an injunction to stop all free agent signings until this issue is decided.

    16. New Guy

      See, I can see Stern being a **** like that. On a scale of 1 to overturning the Chris Paul trade, this is a 2. Plus he is fighting perception that the league rigged the lottery, and naturally all the idiot conspiracy theorists are implying the NBA let the Knicks win this one (led by Bill Simmons, who somehow has the nerve to complain that a decision about a thing called BIRD RIGHTS went in our favor when the whole rule was made up to let his team circumvent the cap….Sorry, I’m rambling).

      However, it’s not the Knicks pushing this, right? It’s the NBPA. We’re just in the crosshairs.

    17. SeeWhyDee77

      If all the pieces fall in place..meaning we can land Felton or Kidd in free agency..and draft Thompson and move Fields and Douglas for improved depth..then Thompson’s ball handling becomes less of an issue at least in year 1. It also puts the onus on Stat and Melo to pass more especially if Novak returns along with Smith. That’s alot of shooting. Not to mention Jorts also has a decent J.

    18. New Guy

      This whole thing makes the league look bad, IMO. They’re picking on the little guys, waiver wire pickups. And they go on and on about designing a system that allows teams to keep their players, but now they want to basically force guys to leave their team.

      LeBron James and Dwyane Wade make a mockery of your system and that’s OK. But let’s bring the hammer down on Steve Novak and Jeremy Lin.

    19. thenamestsam

      New Guy:
      I see.

      Unfortunately it seems Landry is always getting more than the 5-8 minutes he would ideally get.

      Overall, though, with our top 2 not being as good as the other top twos, I think we need some decisive edges filling out the rotation.So I don’t agree with the idea that we’ll go as far as Amar’e and Carmelo take us.Well, I don’t want to agree with it b/c I think think we all know they’re not going to take us all the way, so to get where we want to go it’s vital we nail those 5-8 spots.Glen has done an outstanding job of that so far.

      That’s a fair point. To the extent that they can use that extra ~3M that this ruling has earned them to get someone who does significantly improve roster spots 5-8 then I agree it will be of value. I’m just not sold that the names I’m hearing thrown around are really going to do that. Ray Allen is the one guy who I really think is good enough to be a significant addition, but I think he ends up in Miami. Nash isn’t taking 3M. Other than that the guys getting bandied about: Odom, JKidd, Felton, etc. aren’t exactly quickening my pulse. Can they bounce back enough to contribute? Maybe, but I don’t think it’s really a slam dunk. But you’re right that Glen has done a great job of picking the right guys so far. Maybe I should have more faith.

    20. Frank

      New Guy:
      See, I can see Stern being a **** like that.On a scale of 1 to overturning the Chris Paul trade, this is a 2.Plus he is fighting perception that the league rigged the lottery, and naturally all the idiot conspiracy theorists are implying the NBA let the Knicks win this one (led by Bill Simmons, who somehow has the nerve to complain that a decision about a thing called BIRD RIGHTS went in our favor when the whole rule was made up to let his team circumvent the cap….Sorry, I’m rambling).

      However, it’s not the Knicks pushing this, right?It’s the NBPA.We’re just in the crosshairs.

      I guess we’ll know pretty soon, but I just don’t see Stern basically screwing one of the league’s flagship franchises (at least in name if not results) — not to mention the hottest international NBA story to come on in, well forever, in Jeremy Lin. They will settle, and I would be highly surprised if the four players did not keep their EB rights. The Union has the arbitration win, which definitely puts them in the driver’s seat, especially since the Union also has to sign off on the eventual 3-person panel. They are not going to let someone obviously pro-league into that room.

      Meanwhile, as much as Stern’s block of the CP3 trade caused waves, it sure feels like it was a good solid management move now. They got Eric Gordon on a rookie contract, salary relief in Chris Kaman’s expiring, a young player with some upside in Aminu, plus the #10 pick in a strong draft. The Houston/Laker pupu platter was a sure road to #12 picks in the draft for the next few years (ie. like Houston has been doing under Morey’s “brilliant” leadership).

    21. ephus

      Great article on Grantland explaining the Lin decision, including the most insight I have seen on Dam’s reasoning.

      http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/30639/explaining-the-lin-decision

      I take it that the author has seen the briefs that each side submitted and Dam’s opinion, even though they are not publicly available. Dam apparently accepted that “by means of a trade” is a broader term than “Traded Player” and includes players who changed teams by being claimed off of waivers.

      In looking at the article, I realize there is a very good argument for the Knicks on appeal. A player gets Early Bird rights if

      prior to becoming a Veteran Free Agent, played under one or more Player Contracts covering some or all of each of the two (2) preceding Seasons, and who either exclusively played with his Prior Team during such two Seasons, or, if he played for more than one Team during such period, changed Teams only (i) by means of trade, or (ii) by signing with his Prior Team during the first of the two (2) Seasons.

      Under the NBA’s argument, a player who is claimed off of waivers is in a worse position than a player who clears waivers. Assume that in year 1, Player X is claimed off of waivers by the Knicks and Player Y clears waviers and is signed by the Knicks. After Year 2, under the NBA’s argument, Player X would not have Early Bird rights (because he did not play exclusively for the Knicks for two years, did not change teams “by means of a trade” and did not “sign” with the Knicks during the first year — he was assigned to the Knicks without “signing”) but Player Y would have Early Bird rights (because he would have signed with the Knicks during the first season).

    22. Frank

      I’m actually not so sure why the league is making much of a deal out of this,other than that it will encourage MLE-level deals (which as Brian has pointed out before, they are REALLY afraid of) on a 1 or 2 contract per 5 year frequency — how often does this really happen? You would think they would want to reward teams for finding diamonds in the rough ie. good management. But it won’t really lead to problems with bigger contracts, since teams could always sign high-priced waived players to a non-bird exception-type contract (ie. Billups can get up to 120% of his 11-12 salary) regardless of the current issue in arbitration.

    23. Frank

      New Guy:
      This whole thing makes the league look bad, IMO.They’re picking on the little guys, waiver wire pickups.And they go on and on about designing a system that allows teams to keep their players, but now they want to basically force guys to leave their team.

      LeBron James and Dwyane Wade make a mockery of your system and that’s OK.But let’s bring the hammer down on Steve Novak and Jeremy Lin.

      +100000000000

    24. ephus

      I think the fate of the amnestied players (Billups) is a much bigger deal for the NBA than what happens with Lin/Novak. If the Clippers can use full Bird Rights to resign Billups, then they will have been able to bring in Billups at $3 million but get a $12 million Bird Exception. If Billups had been waived by the Knicks (rather than amnestied), the Clippers would not have had the cap room to claim him off of waivers.

    25. iserp

      Perhaps they could amend the CBA allowing amnestied players to have early bird rights based on the waiver bid instead of their salary. That would eliminate any possibility to gain unfair advantage through this method.

      Not that it is going to happen…

    26. ephus

      Under the NBA’s way of looking at it, amnestied players get non-Bird Rights rather than Early Bird or Full Bird rights. As I think about it, the threat is that a team will sign an amnestied player for one year, then give him a one year max contract and turn it around as an expiring.

    27. Frank

      ephus:
      Under the NBA’s way of looking at it, amnestied players get non-Bird Rights rather than Early Bird or Full Bird rights.As I think about it, the threat is that a team will sign an amnestied player for one year, then give him a one year max contract and turn it around as an expiring.

      ah, that is smart. you really must be a lawyer.

    28. New Guy

      ephus:
      Under the NBA’s way of looking at it, amnestied players get non-Bird Rights rather than Early Bird or Full Bird rights.As I think about it, the threat is that a team will sign an amnestied player for one year, then give him a one year max contract and turn it around as an expiring.

      They can still do that anyway, regardless of this ruling. Any player on a one year deal can sign for 120% of the salary he was making (the amnestied amount).

      No Bird Rights, Clippers can offer Chauncey up to 17 million

      With Bird Rights, Clippers can offer Chauncey up to 21 million

      (source: http://www.clipsnation.com/2012/6/23/3113871/arbitrator-grants-the-clippers-chauncey-billups-bird-rights-why-it-doesnt-matter-)

      Is the extra $4 million really that threatening? No one amnestied is likely to take advantage of that extra bump.

    29. Frank

      Actually, I think the lawyers missed the whole waived players and Bird Rights thing, but they did anticipate ephus’s idea above — from Larry Coon’s cbafaq.com:

      97. When can’t a player be traded? Can players be given “no-trade” clauses in their contracts?

      A “no-trade” clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player’s consent…… etc etc

      There are two additional circumstances in which a trade requires the player’s consent:

      When the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team’s qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, his Larry Bird/Early Bird rights are not traded with him. The player becomes a Non-Bird free agent instead.

      So in essence – if Chauncey were to sign a 1 year max deal, he would effectively have a no-trade clause throughout that deal AND would lose bird rights if traded. So while the Clips could pull it off with his consent, it would be bad for Chauncey $-wise and he would have to agree to it.

    30. 2FOR18

      melo says he’s lost 12 pounds since the end of the season. That’s good news if true; maybe he’ll be able to jump next season.

      Randy Foye supposedly has expressed interest in the Knicks. I’d rather have his consistent averageness than JR’s knuckle headedness.

    31. Frank

      2FOR18:
      melo says he’s lost 12 pounds since the end of the season.That’s good news if true; maybe he’ll be able to jump next season.

      Randy Foye supposedly has expressed interest in the Knicks.I’d rather have his consistent averageness than JR’s knuckle headedness.

      You very well might get both.

      Re: JR – signing him to a non-Bird deal starting at ~3M is a no-brainer. He’s only 26-27 years old and has all kinds of talent. My feeling is that with a full year of Woodson’s tutelage, he will start to reign in some of his bad habits. I’m actually less concerned about his offensive bad habits than I am with his defensive bad habits. Except for the fact that he didn’t shoot the 3 well, I thought he was ok on offense. I don’t have any data on this but it sure seemed like most of his maddening step-back shots from 21 feet were at the end of the shot clock when you’re trying to get any reasonable shot off. I thought he gave great effort at the defensive end and on the boards — the only thing is that he takes a ton of stupid gambles on defense and fouls jumpshooters too much. These are things that can be worked on and coached. He’s got great size and quickness and can be a great asset on that side of the ball if he can just get it together (I know, people have been saying that since he was a rookie).

    32. ephus

      If the Knicks hold on to their Lin/Novak Early Bird rights, they likely will have only one slot above the veteran’s minimum. If they lose, likely they will have none. Bringing in Foye would mean hoping that you could get a backup PG with the veteran’s minimum.

    33. Frank

      Mini-MLE wish list:

      1) Steve Nash
      2) Ray Allen
      3) Andre Miller
      4) Jason Kidd
      5) Gerald Green
      6) Marcus Camby
      7) Grant Hill
      8) Kirk Hinrich
      9) Raymond Felton

      Vet’s minimum wish list:

      1) Lamar Odom
      2) Mikael Pietrus
      3) Anthony Parker
      4) Matt Barnes
      5) Bill Walker

      I’m assuming Jeffries is coming back.

    34. johnlocke

      I think JKidd and Lamar Odom/Pietrus are the most likely outcomes

      Frank:
      Mini-MLE wish list:

      1) Steve Nash
      2) Ray Allen
      3) Andre Miller
      4) Jason Kidd
      5) Gerald Green
      6) Marcus Camby
      7) Grant Hill
      8) Kirk Hinrich
      9) Raymond Felton

      Vet’s minimum wish list:

      1) Lamar Odom
      2) Mikael Pietrus
      3) Anthony Parker
      4) Matt Barnes
      5) Bill Walker

      I’m assuming Jeffries is coming back.

    35. johnlocke

      “Amar’e Stoudemire has been fined $50K for his inappropriate tweet. Stoudemire will make $60,820 PER QUARTER next season”

      –about $5K per word, wow! I think we’re going to see a reduction in tweets, going to miss JR’s pictures the most (then again it’s JR, so I probably won’t)

    36. Frank

      @37
      from Howard Beck’s twitter –

      HowardBeckNYT: Good: Melo lost 12 lbs. Bad: had 12 lbs to lose

      Excellent article by LZ Granderson on ESPN re: Amare – while I think this whole controversy re: Amare is unfortunate, I think Granderson’s take on it is right on: that Amare needs to focus and not get drawn into things like this. The obvious event was the hand injury after the Miami game, but we saw it all the time on the court too — celebrating after a dunk while the other team is running down the floor in transition etc. Melo is the same way, getting into trash talk with whoever while throwing the ball inbounds to nobody. I don’t know whether Shump learned it from them, but he picked up at least 2 techs this year for showboating after dunks.

      No one begrudges these guys some preening or trash talking, but it can’t come at the expense of their focus on the task at hand.

    37. johnlocke

      KG talks trash all the time, playing with passion is fine….not playing defense with full effort and intelligence or doing stupid things that hurt the team (like punching walls/glass or anything at all) during the playoffs is what really annoys me. If he plays defense with energy, gets some of those chase down blocks he got with us the first year, I can live with talking trash / preening after dunking all over somebody

      Frank:
      @37
      from Howard Beck’s twitter –

      HowardBeckNYT: Good: Melo lost 12 lbs. Bad: had 12 lbs to lose

      Excellent article by LZ Granderson on ESPN re: Amare – while I think this whole controversy re: Amare is unfortunate, I think Granderson’s take on it is right on: that Amare needs to focus and not get drawn into things like this.The obvious event was the hand injury after the Miami game, but we saw it all the time on the court too — celebrating after a dunk while the other team is running down the floor in transition etc.Melo is the same way, getting into trash talk with whoever while throwing the ball inbounds to nobody.I don’t know whether Shump learned it from them, but he picked up at least 2 techs this year for showboating after dunks.

      No one begrudges these guys some preening or trash talking, but it can’t come at the expense of their focus on the task at hand.

    38. ruruland

      Hey John,

      Like I said, this is another transformational off-season for Melo. Wax unveiling and other shenanigans aside, it’s probably the most focused one he’s had, and he’s had I would say 4 great off-seasons in his career that allowed him to get to another level.

      I don’t think last off-season was great but there was a lot going on. Melo decided to be a big part of the player-created summer league during the lockout (Team Melo).

      He did, however, spend a lot of time improving his pick and roll ballhandling skills in preparation for running MDA’s offense. He was one of the better pick and roll scorers in the NBA last year, and probably could have averaged 5+ assists had the Knicks surrounded him with just average spot up shooting (pre-Novak.Lin,Smith).

      In fact, when MDA changed Melo’s position in the offense and took away the vast majority of his pnr (and the iso/post-up was not a true part of the offense and was never embraced) I think that was probably the second biggest reason behind the fallout. Losing was the first, and both guys were frustrated with how poor the offense was functioning and each had different visions of how to solve it.

      Anyhow….

      I’ve had some time the last month to really dig into Synergy. And pretty much everything I’ve learned has confirmed what I thought I knew.

      I’m planning on a big post tonight, but basically what I found was that when Melo played with Lin (Woodson and MDA) his shot distribution was inverted in comparison to the rest of his season.

      No player in the league that I’ve come across has a higher distribution of shots in post and up and iso. When you factor in pnr, it was around 60% of Melo’s offense last year.

      With Lin, more than 60% of his offense came in the form of assisted basket attempts.

      WHat I’ve found, as I knew all along, was that while Melo is an elite post-up/iso player, he’s still less efficient with those shots than he is in assisted basket scenarios — and by…

    39. ephus

      Frank: I don’t know whether Shump learned it from them, but he picked up at least 2 techs this year for showboating after dunks.

      I am still bitter about those two technical fouls, which came in two overtime games (Boston (loss) and Chicago (win)). With a year under his belt, Shumpert should avoid those Ts, both because he will know to woof less and the refs will give him more leeway.

      IMO, Woodson more focus more and fewer unforced errors than MDA. Some of that may be the wake-up effect of firing a coach, but I think Woodson was a more effective communicator. MDA appeared to have two gears at the end: ignoring the veterans and yelling at the rookies/role players.

    40. ruruland

      Anyhow, as you’ll see tonight, playing with Lin allowed Melo to play much more off the ball. While I would suspect he’ll have more of an even split in terms of self-created shots alongside Lin (as opposed to 40% as it was last year) that’s a huge difference in terms of efficiency.

      But what really sealed my opinion on this was how effectively Lin played with Melo in pnr, cuts, and transition….. In fact, with Lin, Melo’s TS% in off-ball scenarios was 60% TS, which is actually lower than it’s been the previous 3 years.

      As a proficient pnr point guard, there are areas where Lin can help Melo that Melo’s never had help in before…. And with the emergence of his spot-up 3 point shot the last few years, I expect a career high in scoring efficiency from Melo next season.

    41. Frank

      @44 – will be very interesting to see your writeup since to my memory Melo’s numbers were quite poor when playing with Lin (basically Feb/Mar), although my feeling is that those were not necessarily representative of his potential with Lin — his 3P% was just horrible (~27-28%) during that time, and that was also when he had a bunch of injuries.

      Watching some of the Lin highlights again, it is clear to me that he was wearing down by the end of his season — he looked a whole lot quicker in February than he did in March. Some of that is probably defenses gearing up against him. But it was amazing to see him run the break and also his pinpoint passing in transition and on lobs. we really missed that in April and May.

    42. ephus

      If ‘Melo really has lost 12 pounds, I would expect it to help him in three separate manners next season:

      1. Better finishing at the rim. Ruru has the stats from Synergy, but my observations were that ‘Melo was not particularly efficient finishing at the rim because he did not elevate well. Even with his offensive rebounding of his own misses (which ‘Melo excels at because of his quick re-jumps), he did not convert on post-ups and cuts to the basket as well as I expected. Give him 3 more inches of elevation on each jump, and he is converting a higher percentage.

      2. More transition opportunities. A more fit ‘Melo should get two or three additional transition opportunities per game. This was a big part of Bernard King’s game, and an easy way for a wing player to increase offensive efficiency.

      3. Better stamina. In numerous games, ‘Melo was unable to sustain hot early scoring because he became noticably winded. Shots became shorter and flatter. He made fewer forays to the rim.

      Finally, a more lithe ‘Melo should be better prepared to counter the fronting in the post that Miami used to take him out of his game. Lobs to the basket and secondary screens will work more effectively if ‘Melo is more mobile.

    43. ruruland

      Frank:
      @44 – will be very interesting to see your writeup since to my memory Melo’s numbers were quite poor when playing with Lin (basically Feb/Mar), although my feeling is that those were not necessarily representative of his potential with Lin — his 3P% was just horrible (~27-28%) during that time, and that was also when he had a bunch of injuries.

      His numbers were awful with Lin. He was 4/22 in offensive rebound attempts!!!! His isolation/post-ups were around 43 TS%….

      However, roughly 60% of his shots were of the assisted attempt variety.. Even Melo struggled with those from his career averages (just 59.6 TS), but it shows you the potential….The assisted basket percentage with Lin was higher than it was with Andre Miller.

      However, when we extrapolate his 3 years averages (of the various shot types during this time) his projected TS would have been a career high. I want to run the numbers again but it looks like it’s in the 59 area….

      It’s the distribution that matters…. And not since Andre Miller has Melo had the chance to really vary his offense off the ball.

      He’ll still be an elite high volume post-up/iso guy, and that will still help the Knicks generate offense.. But with a 10-12 percent decrease (a real 30% decrease) in those shot attempts I expect him to improve his iso/post-ups (the same rationale for why lower usage players, on average, have higher efficiency. The fact that Melo has been a top 50ish post-up/iso guy despite it being such a high-volume/predictable play, speaks to Melo’s talent more than anything else)

      I see an assisted basket ratio that’s much more in line with the other elite wings, and because of it, we’ll see an efficiency that’s much closer to those great wings as well.

    44. ruruland

      ephus:

      1.Better finishing at the rim.Ruru has the stats from Synergy, but my observations were that ‘Melo was not particularly efficient finishing at the rim because he did not elevate well.Even with his offensive rebounding of his own misses (which ‘Melo excels at because of his quick re-jumps), he did not convert on post-ups and cuts to the basket as well as I expected.Give him 3 more inches of elevation on each jump, and he is converting a higher percentage.

      2.More transition opportunities.A more fit ‘Melo should get two or three additional transition opportunities per game.This was a big part of Bernard King’s game, and an easy way for a wing player to increase offensive efficiency.

      The struggles Melo had around the rim last year were confounding to a lot of people. He’s carried that 250-260 much better in the past, though I think most of us know he’s been too heavy the last two years.

      Sure, his best years around the rim have occurred when he was lighter on his feet……no doubt.

      ’09 he came into camp light and was having a monster year (on extreme iso/post-up) before the elbow and knee injuries.

      And the knee, ankle, wrist, groin injuries all played a part last year, too. If only because they kept Melo off his feet and out of shape……

      I think he’s getting lighter to stay healthy (and each of his potential monster years have been thrown off by injury)

      But the decrease in shot creation with a true pg in Lin will preserve energy for cuts and transition — areas where he’s really efficient (against the league average)….

      I think somtimes people underestimate the energy Melo often expends grappling for position inside, especially against 20 minute defensive specialists whose only job is to make Melo work…. Anyone who’s wrestled or boxed knows how exhausting that kind of activity can be……

    45. johnlocke

      I don’t know what his weight was, but I was re-watching Melo’s first game with the Knicks against the Bucks…and he looked noticeably much much svelter than he did this season….(he had some of his best offensive numbers in those 30 or so games with the Knicks — ignoring the playoffs w/ the exception of game 2 of course) and that was without Lin, and with D’Antoni

      ruruland: The struggles Melo had around the rim last year were confounding to a lot of people. He’s carried that 250-260 much better in the past, though I think most of us know he’s been too heavy the last two years.

      Sure, his best years around the rim have occurred when he was lighter on his feet……no doubt.

      ’09 he came into camp light and was having a monster year (on extreme iso/post-up) before the elbow and knee injuries.

      And the knee, ankle, wrist, groin injuries all played a part last year, too. If only because they kept Melo off his feet and out of shape……

      I think he’s getting lighter to stay healthy (and each of his potential monster years have been thrown off by injury)

      But the decrease in shot creation with a true pg in Lin will preserve energy for cuts and transition — areas where he’s really efficient (against the league average)….

      I think somtimes people underestimate the energy Melo often expends grappling for position inside, especially against20 minute defensive specialists whose only job is to make Melo work…. Anyone who’s wrestled or boxed knows how exhausting that kind of activity can be……

    46. Nick C.

      The Melo with Lin stuff is interesting because I recall a lot of grousing about Lin missing or waving off Melo on post ups along with dissatisfaction with spotting up for corner threes. Was there a change when MDA left? I would add Melo getting over the nagging injuries but I think Lin wasn’t playing when Melo was playing hurt.

    47. ruruland

      johnlocke:
      I don’t know what his weight was, but I was re-watching Melo’s first game with the Knicks against the Bucks…and he looked noticeably much much svelter than he did this season….(he had some of his best offensive numbers in those 30 or so games with the Knicks — ignoring the playoffs w/ the exception of game 2 of course)and that was without Lin, and with D’Antoni

      He was not in great shape coming into the ’10 season which is one reason he got off to awful start to the season IMO…. Maybe it was all the distractions, but it took him a good 30-40 games to get right.

      This is what a perfectly in-shape Melo looks like after a great off-season (from the beginning of ’09):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwIQIkBIJo8

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0o2YJ3jIac

      before the wrist injury against Dallas in late December, Melo was averaging over 30 ppg on 48% from the field with a .581 TS….. And he was playing more iso/post-up than he did last year…

    48. ruruland

      Nick C.:
      The Melo with Lin stuff is interesting because I recall a lot of grousing about Lin missing or waving off Melo on post ups along with dissatisfaction with spotting up for corner threes. Was there a change when MDA left? I would add Melo getting over the nagging injuries but I think Lin wasn’t playing when Melo was playing hurt.

      There were times when Lin would miss Melo cutting to the basket, as clearly Melo made an effort to fit into the offense off the ball and get easy baskets in that fashion, but there was a HUGE uptick in cut attempts, and pick and roll roll man attempts when Melo played with Lin……

      I don’t think the problem was with Melo taking corner 3s… It was with an offense that was not structured for ANY Melo iso/post-ups or high pnrs… Remember, Melo trained in the offseason to be the team’s primary ballhandler in the pnr, and he was actually really efficient in that role (not as good as Lin of course), but when MDA took Melo off the ball completely, combined with the losing streak and the outside pressure… just a potent mixture.

    49. ruruland

      Basketball knowledge: Berri>Dunlap

      “For the Bobcats, they get a much needed shooter in their backcourt. In a recent interview after a pre-draft workout, new coach Mike Dunlap told reporters that was the team’s biggest need.

      “Definitely, shooters,” Dunlap said. “The ability to make the 3[-pointer] is really important because it allows you to play inside. What happens [in the absence of quality shooting] is the defense collapses and it gets crowded in there.”

    50. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ruruland:
      Basketball knowledge: Berri>Dunlap

      “For the Bobcats, they get a much needed shooter in their backcourt. In a recent interview after a pre-draft workout, new coach Mike Dunlap told reporters that was the team’s biggest need.

      “Definitely, shooters,” Dunlap said. “The ability to make the 3[-pointer] is really important because it allows you to play inside. What happens [in the absence of quality shooting] is the defense collapses and it gets crowded in there.”

      No shit. You’d rather have a player who was good at shooting than a player who wasn’t. What analysis!

      Tell me, then, why Marcus Denmon will go undrafted.

    51. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: No shit. You’d rather have a player who was good at shooting than a player who wasn’t. What analysis!Tell me, then, why Marcus Denmon will go undrafted.

      I honestly can’t believe you would set this trap on yourself.

      Do you not see the different ways your argument will backfire?

      Denmon is going to be a late pick for the same reason guys like Novak and Eddie House were mid-to-late second rounders.

      The biggest reason is that they aren’t shot creators. They don’t add any value outside of their ability to make shots. GM’s understand this much better than the folks in the Berri club.

      While they will look like amazing players by metrics that are currently available to the public, their teammates will have to do a lot of heavy lifting for them to provide that value.

      And what’s with the obfuscation of the point Dunlap is making, the same principle we’ve argued on this board since I’ve been around (and assuredly much longer than that)?

      You claim to be a stats guy, but you resort to sophistry most of the time. Sounds like someone who has a dogma problem and can’t think himself out of it.

    52. Kurt

      I think really MDA would have and might be best as a Tex Winter/Del Harris style assistant coach/sage. He did well with olympic squad as assistant. His problems of communication, in-game adjustments, and management are head coach functions rather than assistant coach.

      IMO, Woodson more focus more and fewer unforced errors than MDA.Some of that may be the wake-up effect of firing a coach, but I think Woodson was a more effective communicator.MDA appeared to have two gears at the end: ignoring the veterans and yelling at the rookies/role players.

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