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Thursday, July 31, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Jul 24 2012)

  • [New York Times] London Olympics — USA Basketball Team Takes Spain Seriously (Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:20:04 GMT)
    The men’s basketball exhibition game Tuesday against Spain and its imposing frontcourt should say a lot about the strength of the United States team heading into the London Olympics.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Basketball: Nets Sign Backup Guard C. J. Watson (Tue, 24 Jul 2012 05:15:56 GMT)
    The Nets have signed C. J. Watson to back up Deron Williams at point guard. General Manager Billy King announced the signing without disclosing terms.

  • 33 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Jul 24 2012)

    1. Brian Cronin

      I still can’t get over the idea of Jacque Vaughhn as the probable coach of the Magic. Did anyone here ever watch Vaughn during his NBA career and think, “Wow, that guy would make a good coach in the future.”

      A lot of current NBA coaches who were players I did think that about them when they were playing (Skiles, Doc Rivers, Terry Porter…okay, Porter turned out horrible, but still, he seemed like a good idea when he was a player!). I never got that vibe off of Vaughn.

    2. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      BigBlueAL:

      Also spare me the Atlanta Hawks north bullshit.Since when have we been too spoiled a fan base to be insulted to have to root for a 50 win team that probably wont get past the 2nd round??In the entire history of this franchise they have won 50 games in a season only 12 freaking times.12 times!!Out of 66 seasons!!

      You’re the kind of fan James Dolan must love.

      It’s like someone tells you he can have your car completely refinished and he brings it back with a new bumper and a wax job and tells you you’re supposed to be happy about it.

      Just because it’s better than it has been doesn’t mean the series of moves by management has been anything less than risky, short-sighted, and irresponsible.

      Amar’e's uninsured contract
      Trading the farm for Melo
      Felton over Lin (for personal, not business reasons)
      Balkman
      Ty Lawson, Kenneth Faried, etc.

      I don’t have to be happy with a 50 win team when I feel that the front office could have made it a 60 win team.

    3. Frank

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Felton over Lin (for personal, not business reasons)

      In your own words, total and absolute conjecture. We have no idea why we now have Felton over Lin. IMHO the reason that makes the most sense is that Felton will cost $45MM less over 3 seasons than Lin. Sounds like business.

      What about Balkman again? Is he even in the league anymore?

      Re: trading the farm for Melo – I was against the trade at the time (not because I didn’t want Melo – just not at that price), but I think that other than the 2014 draft pick, this has turned out ok. We have Felton back, for pete’s sake, Wilson Chandler is an average-replaceable player, and Gallo is good. Not great. Not difference-making (yet). Also replaceable. If it were me (and I wrote this 100x back then), I would have said WChandler + fat Eddy’s contract – take it or leave it, and we’ll sign Melo at FA if you leave it.

      I’m reasonably ok with this team right now. yes I’d be happier if Lin were here, and if we had our 2014 pick still, and if we had Ty Lawson. I think this team will win 55 games next year and be a serious contender to get to the ECF. In this era of LBJ/Wade/Bosh/Ray, that’s about all you can ask for. No amount of Gallinari or Ty Lawson would make us better than that.

    4. Frank

      Meanwhile – SWEET. Sounds like we just signed Ronnie Brewer. I’m a BIG fan. Great defender, and a great guy all around.

    5. peanutgallery

      Random comment about Felton…although he seemed to fit in with D’Antoni’s offense, now he probably looks forward to not running fast and furious under Woodson’s (and ‘Melo’s) style.

    6. Frank

      btw re: the Melo trade – remember that Wilson Chandler and Gallinari are basically making Melo $ now (combined). $ for $, I take Melo. I know THCJ disagrees, but I’m pretty sure that 99% of the smart basketball world would agree.

    7. formido

      I hope everyone saw ESPN’s article series on the Knicks’ separation from Lin. The first article in particular is fascinating:

      http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8180308/nba-jeremy-lin-six-degrees-separation-family

      It seems William Wesley is really consolidating his power. This article doesn’t even mention the JR Smith tweets about “family” and his retweeting the Howard Beck article immediately from the summer league stands while laughing in the company of Knicks management.

      Incidentally, I think Woodson’s association with the CAA family is merely pragmatic. By his words and actions, Woodson was a big Lin fan.

    8. thenamestsam

      Like the Brewer signing a lot. Very serviceable guy who can replace Shump effectively while he’s out. When he comes back we might be looking at a bit of a logjam in the backcourt but there are worse problems to have.

    9. Brian Cronin

      btw re: the Melo trade – remember that Wilson Chandler and Gallinari are basically making Melo $ now (combined). $ for $, I take Melo. I know THCJ disagrees, but I’m pretty sure that 99% of the smart basketball world would agree.

      Chandler, Gallo and Felton combine to make less money than Melo this year. And the next. And the next. And…well, then Melo’s contract is up.

    10. Degree_Absolute

      Frank:
      Meanwhile – SWEET. Sounds like we just signed Ronnie Brewer. I’m a BIG fan. Great defender, and a great guy all around.

      If this is indeed true this is a really good pickup. He hustles his ass off on defense and is a very serviceable backup. My GF is a Bulls fan so I saw a lot of Brewer last year and for me he passed the eye test. He always seems to be around the ball making smart, game-changing plays in limited minutes. He is similar to both Landry and Jeffries in this regard. Good stuff.

    11. Jafa

      formido:
      It seems William Wesley is really consolidating his power. This article doesn’t even mention the JR Smith tweets about “family” and his retweeting the Howard Beck article immediately from the summer league stands while laughing in the company of Knicks management.

      Incidentally, I think Woodson’s association with the CAA family is merely pragmatic. By his words and actions, Woodson was a big Lin fan.

      It only makes sense that CAA is consolidating its power. It now has a track record of success – the team in Miami which they guided and put together just won the championship. Probably made it easier for them to convince Dolan that building the Knicks their way will yield similar results.

    12. Z-man

      Frank: What about Balkman again? Is he even in the league anymore?

      I think THCJ meant that it was a huge blunder to take Balkman over Rondo, obviously correct there.

      Re: Amare, point taken, and you could argue that it was compounded by not having the balls to amnesty him instead of Billups. I think this will be the year to decide how bad that signing was. Still, he and Melo both are expirings in 2 years, so it’s not cap-killing forever.

      Re: Melo, again, it was Gallo, etc., for Melo AND Chandler, who is a THJC all-time favorite and who just won the Knicks first DPOY since…ever? And we now have Felton back for half of what we were paying him. Seems like an OK deal to me. Re: the 2014 draft pick, where will we be picking, between 22-25?

      Re: Faried, horrific defender who would only get in the way here, vs. Shump, who actually filled a vital need as a perimeter defender. Put DeJuan Blair into this category as well, aren’t the Spurs and their genius coach trying to unload him and his PAWS40? Both of these guys, like your boy Landry, are fool’s gold.

    13. johnlocke

      Yes, we’re all geniuses in hindsight. Rondo was no lock to become a great pg coming out of college. He had big hands and could play defense. He averaged 11 pts and 5 assists as a sophomore at Kentucky — he was known as a good defender and rebounding guard who could pass but not shoot.

      Regarding Amare, there is no way anyone in the Knicks org could have amnestied the guy that was an MVP candidate and brought the Knicks back to the playoffs again.

      Shump is a much better fit for this team than Faried.

      Not saying Dolan hasn’t pullled some dumb moves, but the ones above are just Monday morning quarterbacking.

      Z-man: I think THCJ meant that it was a huge blunder to take Balkman over Rondo, obviously correct there.

      Re: Amare, point taken, and you could argue that it was compounded by not having the balls to amnesty him instead of Billups. I think this will be the year to decide how bad that signing was. Still, he and Melo both are expirings in 2 years, so it’s not cap-killing forever.

      Re: Melo, again, it was Gallo, etc., for Melo AND Chandler, who is a THJC all-time favorite and who just won the Knicks first DPOY since…ever? And we now have Felton back for half of what we were paying him. Seems like an OK deal to me. Re: the 2014 draft pick, where will we be picking, between 22-25?

      Re: Faried, horrific defender who would only get in the way here, vs. Shump, who actually filled a vital need as a perimeter defender. Put DeJuan Blair into this category as well, aren’t the Spurs and their genius coach trying to unload him and his PAWS40? Both of these guys, like your boy Landry, are fool’s gold.

    14. Frank

      Brian Cronin: Chandler, Gallo and Felton combine to make less money than Melo this year. And the next. And the next. And…well, then Melo’s contract is up.

      LOL but actually not true. Gallo+Chandler will make $17.9M this year, and Felton is getting $3.48 – so total of 21.4. Melo will make 20.4 this year.

      Meanwhile, one thing I am NOT so happy about today is that Hoopsworld has Felton getting 4 years with the 4th year being a player option? Really? And Kidd’s 3 years are all guaranteed? Blech.

      But I DO love the Ronnie Brewer pickup. I would not want to be trying to bring the ball up against Brewer+Shump ball-pressure. interesting thing about his shooting – apparently he had a childhood accident that makes it so he can’t get his elbow in on his jumper. oh well.

    15. Juany8

      Degree_Absolute: If this is indeed true this is a really good pickup. He hustles his ass off on defense and is a very serviceable backup. My GF is a Bulls fan so I saw a lot of Brewer last year and for me he passed the eye test. He always seems to be around the ball making smart, game-changing plays in limited minutes. He is similar to both Landry and Jeffries in this regard. Good stuff.

      Ronnie Brewer is just a straight up upgrade from Fields. Neither can shoot, but Brewer is a better cutter from his time spent in Jerry Sloan’s offense and he’s an elite defender who won’t make as many mistakes as JR and Shumpert (due to Bball IQ/Age issues respectively). He also gives the team a backup 3 in big lineups, or someone else to defend Pierce/Granger/Lebron/Johnson besides Melo. If Shumpert improves a bit more as a “point”, a short term lineup of Shumpert-JR-Brewer-Melo-Chandler could be the best defensive unit in the league (especially now that Asik left the Bulls)

    16. Juany8

      Frank: LOL but actually not true. Gallo+Chandler will make $17.9M this year, and Felton is getting $3.48 – so total of 21.4. Melo will make 20.4 this year.Meanwhile, one thing I am NOT so happy about today is that Hoopsworld has Felton getting 4 years with the 4th year being a player option? Really? And Kidd’s 3 years are all guaranteed? Blech.But I DO love the Ronnie Brewer pickup. I would not want to be trying to bring the ball up against Brewer+Shump ball-pressure. interesting thing about his shooting – apparently he had a childhood accident that makes it so he can’t get his elbow in on his jumper. oh well.

      He shot decently well from range last year. It was his only year in the league where he was even decent from 3, but it’s hard to do worse than our guards last year (There was a point of the year where Bill Walker was our most efficient guard. Yet somehow Melo and Amar’e were to blame for all the problems lol)

    17. ephus

      In 2012-13, Gallo and Chandler will combine for $15.4 million, and ‘Melo will be $19.4 million.

      Brian Cronin: Chandler, Gallo and Felton combine to make less money than Melo this year. And the next. And the next. And…well, then Melo’s contract is up.

    18. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Frank: In your own words, total and absolute conjecture. We have no idea why we now have Felton over Lin. IMHO the reason that makes the most sense is that Felton will cost $45MM less over 3 seasons than Lin. Sounds like business.

      What about Balkman again? Is he even in the league anymore?

      You should go back and reread the articles that explained how the Knicks could cut him after year 2 and save tens of millions. There’s absolutely no explanation for cutting Lin aside from inside information (that we don’t have) about his knee or Dolan being a emotional, vindictive idiot. And since the first is terribly unlikely, I’m going to go with “Dolan is an idiot,” since Occam’s Razor would back me up on that.

      Also, the Balkman contract was a terrible move that could have cost us Novak (and Lin). Plus, I think he was an excellent player for his contracts. Stoned on the court, maybe, but a very efficient player.

    19. Z-man

      THCJ, to save the luxury tax on Lin would have required using the stretch providion, sacrificing $5 mill in cap space in 2016 and 2017 on a player not with the team. Which could have been the difference between making a big splash when all the current contracts expire or not. It was hardly a “save millions at no future cost” option. It is hypocritical for you to ignore that, yet at the same time bring up Balkman’s far smaller lingering cap hit as an example.

    20. Frank

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: You should go back and reread the articles that explained how the Knicks could cut him after year 2 and save tens of millions. There’s absolutely no explanation for cutting Lin aside from inside information (that we don’t have) about his knee or Dolan being a emotional, vindictive idiot. And since the first is terribly unlikely, I’m going to go with “Dolan is an idiot,” since Occam’s Razor would back me up on that.

      LOL – you should read my posts where I did the math to see how much it would cost us to use the stretch provision. I’ll do it again for remediation:

      2012-13 –> $5M salary, ~8M luxury tax = $13M total
      2013-14 –> $5M salary, ~8.5M luxury tax = $13.5M total
      2014-15 –> WAIVED, $5M salary, ~9M luxury tax = $14M total
      2015-16 –> $5M salary, dead $ on cap while trying to sign Kevin Love + others
      2016-17 –> $5M salary, dead $ on cap

      Total = $50.5M for 2 seasons played, + 2 seasons of dead money on cap when we may need every dollar to refill this roster.

      Call me crazy, but $25M/year + 2 seasons of dead money seems like a reasonable reason to let him go for business reasons.

      Re: the Balkman contract — I honestly don’t remember what that was all about. We just waived him right? We’d have had to pay him whether on the team or not.

    21. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: You should go back and reread the articles that explained how the Knicks could cut him after year 2 and save tens of millions. There’s absolutely no explanation for cutting Lin aside from inside information (that we don’t have) about his knee or Dolan being a emotional, vindictive idiot. And since the first is terribly unlikely, I’m going to go with “Dolan is an idiot,” since Occam’s Razor would back me up on that.

      Also, the Balkman contract was a terrible move that could have cost us Novak (and Lin). Plus, I think he was an excellent player for his contracts. Stoned on the court, maybe, but a very efficient player.

      So, being that you’re technically a Nuggets fans, given that they have basically all the players you like, I’m assuming you believe they’ll go further than the Knicks this season….

      If not, I’d like to know how they’re going to improve moving forward given how close they are to the apron and the fact that their owner is not likely to go into the tax.

    22. Frank

      btw THCJ should be happy to see that Brewer was the #8 SG last year by WP48 (during a very off year for him), and the year before, was #2 behind Dwyane Wade with a WP48 of 0.245 (1 spot ahead of one Landry Fields).

      This is really a great move for the Knicks. If he could only shoot.

    23. thenamestsam

      I’m worried about the offense because we have a lot of bad shooters on this team, and good spacing may be very tough to come by, but this should be a very good to potentially excellent defensive team, and I like that we’ve added a lot of guys who I think are really competitive types who bring it every night. We weren’t a great team by any stretch of the imagination last year but we also lost a lot of games we should have won by just not being ready to compete every night and the bad seed cost us the chance to make any kind of run. We should be a much improved regular season team at least.

    24. dogrufus

      Frank: In your own words, total and absolute conjecture. We have no idea why we now have Felton over Lin. IMHO the reason that makes the most sense is that Felton will cost $45MM less over 3 seasons than Lin. Sounds like business.

      What about Balkman again? Is he even in the league anymore?

      Re: trading the farm for Melo – I was against the trade at the time (not because I didn’t want Melo – just not at that price), but I think that other than the 2014 draft pick, this has turned out ok.We have Felton back, for pete’s sake, Wilson Chandler is an average-replaceable player, and Gallo is good. Not great. Not difference-making (yet).Also replaceable. If it were me (and I wrote this 100x back then), I would have said WChandler + fat Eddy’s contract – take it or leave it, and we’ll sign Melo at FA if you leave it.

      I’m reasonably ok with this team right now. yes I’d be happier if Lin were here, and if we had our 2014 pick still, and if we had Ty Lawson.I think this team will win 55 games next year and be a serious contender to get to the ECF.In this era of LBJ/Wade/Bosh/Ray, that’s about all you can ask for.No amount of Gallinari or Ty Lawson would make us better than that.

      LOL. Only among the few shills on this board is the jury still out on whether this was the stupidest move of all time. Lin is already clearly better than Felton will ever be. The stretch provision could have more or less obviated the luxury tax payments you’re clutching your pearls over as if you were Dolan’s sole heir. Lin would have been tradable as a highly valuable asset and possibly even brought back picks if we wanted to cut salary.

      But no, let’s be excited about our completely maxed out 50 win team that has no hope of improving or winning more than 1-2 playoff series.

      Sorry if I can’t get excited about 55 when we were already about that good last year and…

    25. dogrufus

      Frank:
      btw re: the Melo trade – remember that Wilson Chandler and Gallinari are basically making Melo $ now (combined).$ for $, I take Melo. I know THCJ disagrees, but I’m pretty sure that 99% of the smart basketball world would agree.

      Really? In which years are they making 20+ million?

      Oh, none?

      So what you meant to say when you said they’re making Melo money is, they’re not making anything fucking close to Melo money?

      That’d be about the level of accuracy and realism usually found in your posts, so it makes sense.

    26. Frank

      dogrufus: Really? In which years are they making 20+ million?

      Melo = $20M in 2012-13.
      Chandler+Gallo = $18M in 2012-13. That’s pretty close.

      dogrufus: The stretch provision could have more or less obviated the luxury tax payments you’re clutching your pearls over as if you were Dolan’s sole heir.

      If you read my post above, you would have seen that even using the stretch, Lin would cost the Knicks $25MM/year played and also have cost 2 years of $5M dead cap space. So it is a risk.

      dogrufus: Lin would have been tradable as a highly valuable asset and possibly even brought back picks if we wanted to cut salary.

      Really. First of all, trading him means taking back salary also, which means ~$45MM in luxury tax payments. Second, who is going to give us a good offer when they know we are under a $45MM anvil? Third, if he’s awesome, then we don’t want to trade him and he costs ~$50MM that year. Ouch. If he’s average, then who wants a $15MM average player who you don’t have control of the next year? If he sucks, then who wants a sucky $15MM player?

      The only offers you will get for him in trade are bad trades. That is most likely the calculation that Grunwald made.

      If you took 1 second to actually think out what you write, you would save all of us time.

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