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Thursday, July 31, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Jul 17 2012)

  • [New York Post] Felton to start (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 03:03:17 -0500)
    A week ago, the Knicks publicly declared they were poised to match the offer sheet Jeremy Lin received from the Rockets.
    Yesterday, with the Lin situation still unresolved â?? at least publicly â?? the team finalized a sign and trade to acquire point guard Raymond Felton from the Trail Blazers and an…

  • [New York Post] Years of distrust breed skepticism (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 03:32:04 -0500)
    Here is the Knicks’ biggest problem today, as the minutes officially melt away toward midnight, as the Jeremy Lin debate percolates, as their fans engage in the most spirited deliberation in the franchise’s history:
    Those fans?
    They don’t trust them.
    They won’t believe them when they explain…

  • [New York Post] Melo: Dolan on point (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 02:33:46 -0500)
    WASHINGTON â?? Knicks owner James Dolan wants Jeremy Lin to return to the team next season. Carmelo Anthony says so.
    “With Jeremy, I know he definitely would want to be back in New York, and with the team, Dolan definitely wants him back,â? Anthony said last night after Team USA’s…

  • [New York Post] Knicks feud with Rockets over phenom’s deadline (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 03:06:11 -0500)
    The Knicks’ season may not have ended with the playoffs loss to Miami because, by all appearances, they’re still playing games.
    In a snit over the Rockets reworking the offer sheet to Jeremy Lin, the Knicks are in no hurry to respond to the deadline to match or decline…

  • [New York Post] Losing Lin could mean big $ hits (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 01:17:31 -0500)
    The Knicks haven’t even publicly declared whether or not they will match Houston’s guaranteed three-year, $25 million offer sheet for Jeremy Lin. But their irate fans are already voicing displeasure with their hearts, their voices and their wallets.A petition on the website change.org aiming to prod…

  • [New York Daily News] Raissman: Clyde tries to dish Lin assist (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:33:18 GMT)
    Walt (Clyde) Frazier, a man of riddles and rhymes, appropriately described the Jeremy Lin situation, saying: “The plot thickens. Or sickens, for a lot of people.â? Frazieris urging the Knicks to match the three-year, $25.1 million offer sheet Houston bestowed on Lin.

  • [New York Daily News] That’s ridiculous! Melo says he wants Lin back ALL  (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:31:03 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony may think the Rockets’ backloaded offer to Jeremy Lin is “ridiculous,â? but he said Monday night he would love to see the Knicks match it and keep Linsanity in New York.

  • [New York Daily News] Lupica: Knicks see bad Lin-vestment (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:29:01 GMT)
    James Dolan and the Knicks make the right play by letting Jeremy Lin walk away. They make the right basketball decision and they made the right business decision as it relates to their basketball team, and not to Lin jerseys.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Lin decision most anticipated move since ‘The Decision’ (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:26:14 GMT)
    It is the most anticipated NBA decision since “The Decision.â? Only this time James Dolan won’t be sitting inside a gymnasium at the YMCA in Greenwich, Conn., declaring that Jeremy Lin is taking his talents to South Texas or the Garden.

  • [New York Daily News] New Knicks star Jason Kidd was feeling no pain (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 05:46:19 GMT)
    JASON KIDD admitted he “had a few drinksâ? before his Hamptons car crash and cops say he reeked of booze â?? but his mother-in-law insists “he’s no drunk.â?

  • [New York Daily News] Lin jerseys bound for bargain bin (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 04:54:18 GMT)
    If Jeremy Lin winds up in a Rockets uniform at 11:59 p.m. Tuesday, the business of Linsanity in New York City will experience a free-fall akin to a stock trader’s worst day on Wall Street. Think Gordon Gekko trying to unload Blue Star, only worse.

  • [New York Times] Jeremy Lin’s Future With New York Knicks Is Dividing Fans (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 08:11:34 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin has New York buzzing again, but this time fans are much more divided on his future with the Knicks, who must match a $25.1 million offer to him by Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Police Say Kidd Refused Alcohol Tests (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 05:07:22 GMT)
    Jason Kidd, the Knicks’ new point guard, declined tests to see how much alcohol he had drunk after his sport-utility vehicle plowed into a utility pole, the Southampton police said.

  • [New York Times] United States 80, Brazil 69: United States National Basketball Team Defeats Brazil, 80-69 (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 05:09:08 GMT)
    Although the United States national basketball team overcame a shaky start for a win in front of President Obama and Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., there were signs of weakness in the middle.

  • [New York Times] Obama Partial to Olympic Basketball’s ’92 ‘Dream Team’ (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 04:20:04 GMT)
    President Barack Obama weighed into the mini-controversy over all-time U.S. Olympic men’s basketball supremacy on Monday, saying he would take the 1992 “Dream Team” over the current crop of NBA superstars.

  • [New York Times] Basketball: Sluggish United States Beat Brazil (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 03:56:45 GMT)
    The U.S. men’s basketball team eased past Brazil 80-69 in an exhibition game on Monday, but their sluggish play and spotty shooting should banish any thoughts they will waltz to another Olympic gold medal in London.

  • [New York Times] For Knicks, Match Lin or Risk Regret if He Goes (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 04:32:19 GMT)
    This would have been such an obvious decision in February.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Knicks Add the Free-Agent Forward Copeland (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 01:07:49 GMT)
    The 6-foot-8 Chris Copeland, who has played mostly overseas, agreed to a one-year deal for the rookie minimum of $473,604.

  • 94 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Jul 17 2012)

    1. Frank O.

      from the last thread…

      jon abbey: but I think you’re misreading it. Lin’s impact in February is not in question, what’s in question is whether he can have anything like that kind of financial impact going forward. for instance, there have been a bunch of quotes from Modell’s people that they have 40,000 of his shirts still in stock that they already marked way down before this, and they still weren’t moving.

      Right. As I said it’s debatable. I need only look at myself. Would I buy a Lin jersey if I know he is an FA and may not return? Nope. I’d have to wait and see. Bottom line, it’s a bet. If he returns and he helps the Knicks to win, if MSG suddenly has people from Taiwan and China and other Asian populations watching them, buying their stuff and ensuring Lin is an All Star, that is a marketing bonanza. If the Knicks are a better team with him and go deep into the playoffs, even get tantalizingly close to the championship, they make even more money.
      Some of Linsanity died down late in the season as the Knicks struggled, as his play dropped off resulting from the knee, and as more and more players suffered injuries. A dip at that point is natural.
      So, I agree, this is uncertain. I agree it’s debatable. But I don’t think I’m misreading. I’m only suggesting that it is a bet. With this kind of resume, with Lin being a point guard, he would be drafted in the top 5 of any draft class. Paying him $5mill a year is not unheard of. And the year of the balloon payment, if he isn’t making the grade, you can move him as a very valuable expiring contract, no harm done.
      It is a gamble, but with your top three guys in their prime, now is the time to strike. You gamble now. Ray Felton doesn’t get that done, nor does Kidd. Now is the time to be bold.

    2. Kikuchiyo

      The Kidd stuff is horrible. Really horrible.

      From the Daily News: “Although Wilson described the athlete as “cooperative,” he refused a Breathalyzer test and later refused blood tests at Southampton Hospital, where he was treated for minor injuries. After being booked, he was released and went home, where he took a sleeping pill. He had a bad reaction and was taken back to the hospital, a source said.”

      We’ve got people on this board and elsewhere whining about Lin’s character because he may have helped Houston amp up the deal (may have). But the PG who is here for “leadership” is in a haze of pills and booze, and very little has been said about that.

      I understand that signing Lin is a gamble, but it’s a gamble based on evidence. This young, smart PG led this team with almost the exact same players to several wins and can reasonably be said to have saved the season. The injury and some question marks about his long-term potential are reasonable concerns, but all that is being risked is Dolan’s tax money, which has been tossed out the window many times for far less worthy causes. And even that is three years away. What shape will Jason Kidd be in three years from now? Isn’t that, too, wasted money?

    3. chrisk06811

      makes you wonder if kidd’s deal has a morality clause. use it to cut him and go w/ Lin / Ray ray, anyone?

    4. ess-dog

      I really don’t see why the wouldn’t sign him. Excuse me if it’s been discussed already, but the Stretch Provision would get Dolan out of the amnesty tax in the 3rd year if Lin didn’t work out or was injured:

      “The Stretch Provision: The player’s remaining salary and his cap hit may be stretched across twice the number of seasons remaining on the contract, plus one (for example, the salary and cap hit for a player waived with two seasons remaining may be stretched across five seasons). This is entirely at the team’s discretion, but it applies only to contracts signed under the 2011 CBA.”

      You still lose that salary, but over 3 years. Dolan blew much more yearly on fatass Curry and others.

      If it’s a “basketball” decision only, then I don’t know what to say. Loss of faith in Grunny and not much faith in Woody (didn’t have a ton to begin with.)

      It also kind of just reeks of stubborn “let’s clean house” kind of deal. Get rid of all the leftover D’Antoni mess and do it OUR way.

      The thing is, this team will still be pretty good – 47 wins I’d say. They could even win the first round if they draw the right team and/or get lucky with injuries for once. And they’re actually more likable than what the Nets are putting together, with their two wretched contracts.

    5. StatsTeacher

      But Knicks are ignoring evidence: the “Linsanity” run featured a starting lineup of Chandler, Jeffries, Walker, Fields and Lin. Some of the most entertaining basketball in forever. 4 of those guys won’t be Knicks next year. The evidence is in, the Knicks FO is behaving illogically. And yes, the Knicks should void Kidd’s contract and sign Lin IMHO. I loved Kidd when he was a Bay Area phenom, but he has has had many issues. At Cal he played one year and essentially flunked out (probably not that unusual) but his famous comment, “I am going to turn my life around 360 degrees” still gets us math people rolling our heads.

      Kikuchiyo:
      The Kidd stuff is horrible. Really horrible.

      From the Daily News: “Although Wilson described the athlete as “cooperative,” he refused a Breathalyzer test and later refused blood tests at Southampton Hospital, where he was treated for minor injuries. After being booked, he was released and went home, where he took a sleeping pill. He had a bad reaction and was taken back to the hospital, a source said.”

      We’ve got people on this board and elsewhere whining about Lin’s character because he may have helped Houston amp up the deal (may have). But the PG who is here for “leadership” is in a haze of pills and booze, and very little has been said about that.

      I understand that signing Lin is a gamble, but it’s a gamble based on evidence. This young, smart PG led this team with almost the exact same players to several wins and can reasonably be said to have saved the season. The injury and some question marks about his long-term potential are reasonable concerns, but all that is being risked is Dolan’s tax money, which has been tossed out the window many times for far less worthy causes. And even that is three years away. What shape will Jason Kidd be in three years from now? Isn’t that, too, wasted money?

    6. johnlocke

      I’m starting to think it’s more than 50/50 the Knicks keep Lin. The Knicks clearly want to screw with the Rockets and are now arguing with them as to what the actual deadline is for making a decision on Lin. Why would they care what the deadline date was if they weren’t seriously thinking about bringing him back. Couple that with Melo’s tune change after the US-Brazil game and I’ll say it’s now 60/40 or even 70/30 odds that he is matched.

      In terms of how all these pieces could work: JKidd can play 2 guard, JR can come off the bench and Felton/Lin can battle it out for the starting position in training camp. Prigioni is insurance in case of injury and Shump/JR can both play minutes at the 2 or 3.

    7. JC Knickfan

      Geez man I’ve been work 1 hour 45 min and all I’ve been doing checking twitter and message boards.

      This shit is unhealthy. Hopefully ends tomorrow and no BS that offer sheet wasn’t delivered on Saturday.

    8. chrisk06811

      it’s stressful. no wonder j kidd needed a few drinks. I almost said knock down a few, but didn’t want someone to confuse that with jumpers. he really doesn’t do that any more.

    9. ephus

      If the Knicks keep Lin, I can easily see them making the following move during the off-season to get out from under the huge tax for 2014-15:

      Lin/Chandler to Philadelphia for Turner/Iguadola.

      Knicks would shift Melo to the 4 and Amar’e to the 5. Philadelphia will have Lin to play PG if Jrue Holliday does not return as a RFA, and can play Holliday and Lin together if he Holliday returns.

      With Iguodola and Shumpert as the wing defenders, Amar’e would not be called upon do much defensively other than play straight man-to-man in the post (and there are not a lot of post-up 5s anymore).

    10. chrisk06811

      Nets signed Humphries. Starting 5 of williams, johnson, Wallace, Humphries and lopez will be fun to watch. They still have brooks off the bench. And, they signed Jerry Stackhouse, incase pepsi wants to make another uncle drew commercial and save $$ on makeup.

      I’m not saying they are better than us, but I would watch them.

    11. thenamestsam

      It really has been an incredibly stressful and worrisome last couple days. If letting Lin walk would in some ways be the ultimate signifier of the dysfunction of this franchise, then a close second would have to be getting the fans all worked into a lather: signing petitions, claiming they’ll abandon the team forever, etc. and then matching. Either way we’re headed for a spectacularly Knick-ish moment tonight I think.

      Anyway on judgement day my final thoughts are that I have no problem with showing some financial discipline. I’d be happy to see the team run in a smarter, more conservative way than it has in the past, and the mistakes that have led to Dolan paying outrageous luxury tax bills for horrible teams in lost seasons shouldn’t be used as a justification for potentially making the same kind of mistake now.

      But if you want to be a financially responsible franchise that can’t mean some of the time. In order to be a contender while not going crazy you have to find value somewhere, and the two best ways are by finding either guys who are dramatically under-paid at the max, or young guys who are forced to be underpaid by the rules. The Knicks gave up on the 2nd path long ago, and gave up on the first path the second they were rejected by Lebron. If you want to build a contender while showing some restraint you can’t be paying Amare and Melo ~40MM combined. You can’t sign every 38 year old in the league to a 3 year deal. You can’t trade every single draft pick away and never give yourself a chance to grab some young talent.

      The Knicks abandoned the pretension and the possibility of financial sanity long ago. Trying to take back that decision now doesn’t make sense to me.

    12. Caleb

      The stretch provision lets you stretch the salary cap hit over 3 years – does that mean it stretches the luxury tax hit as well? That would make a big dollar difference.

      Everyone knows I think this decision is a no-brainer anyway, but that would make it even more so. A negative-brainer? Math people?

    13. Caleb

      Like someone mentioned on the other thread, the Rockets bumped their offer to Lin by $5 million – the Knicks just signed Felton for $3+ million of that difference… so we’re talking maybe $1.5 million in extra salary. Will that tip the decision? If it does you know we are talking about insane people.

      I know, I know…

    14. Frank

      Caleb:
      The stretch provision lets you stretch the salary cap hit over 3 years – does that mean it stretches the luxury tax hit as well? That would make a big dollar difference.

      Everyone knows I think this decision is a no-brainer anyway, but that would make it even more so. A negative-brainer? Math people?

      Yep- I posted about this yesterday or the day before. The team using the stretch provision WILL pay the $ to the player over the “Stretched” period of time, and MAY elect to defer the cap charge over the same amount of time. So yes – if the Knicks waive Lin after 13-14, they would pay him his 14-15 salary (~15M) over 3 years (5M/year), and their total cap # (which determines the lux tax hit) would be only 5M/year as well. That could save the Knicks as much as 37.5MM in tax in 14-15 ($15MM salary decrease to $5MM, so $10MM cap charge saved, *3.75 for each dollar over $20MM over tax line = 37.5MM).

      It’s really a no-brainer to re-sign him. If they don’t, it’s a personal, non-money issue. From a basketball-on-the-floor perspective, I guess they may think he sucks and isn’t worth it anyway — but even in that case, he’s STILL an asset that you can’t let get away for zero.

    15. PaulStreetBoy

      what a horrible franchise! we are now paying attention to Melo’s tune changes in order to figure out what the heck is going on! Grunwald is upsetting me the way he is handling this situation. I thought Knicks had the strictest PR, yet both Melo and JR come up with the stupidest remarks.

      Melo’s tune change after the US-Brazil game and I’ll say it’s now 60/40 or even 70/30 odds that he is matched.

    16. yehudi3000

      If Kris Humphries getting 24 mil for 2 years so lin defenetly worth 25 mil foe 3 years….

      i think lakers and nets goong to pay much higher luxary tax in the next 3 years.

    17. ephus

      With the Humphries signing, the Nets have guaranteed that they will be taxpayers this year, and again next year unless they trade away assets for no salary coming back. The Nets have 5 players each making over $10 million/year for the next two years

      Williams @ $17/$19 million
      Johnson @ $19/$21 million
      Wallace @ $10/$10 million
      Humpries @ $11/$13 million
      Lopez @ $13/$15 million

      Nets are investing this money to try to build a fan base.

    18. johnlocke

      Frank if the below is true, that you’re right that it’s a no-brainer unless Woody has zero faith in him, or Dolan is still really PISSED even after a few days have passed. The thing is Lin is going to get his money anyway, so is Dolan really ‘punishing’ him by not matching?
      I’d rather stick it to the Rockets and match Lin, leaving them with no point guard options, if I were a vindictive owner

      Frank: Yep- I posted about this yesterday or the day before. The team using the stretch provision WILL pay the $ to the player over the “Stretched” period of time, and MAY elect to defer the cap charge over the same amount of time.So yes – if the Knicks waive Lin after 13-14, they would pay him his 14-15 salary (~15M) over 3 years (5M/year), and their total cap # (which determines the lux tax hit) would be only 5M/year as well.That could save the Knicks as much as 37.5MM in tax in 14-15 ($15MM salary decrease to $5MM, so $10MM cap charge saved, *3.75 for each dollar over $20MM over tax line = 37.5MM).

      It’s really a no-brainer to re-sign him. If they don’t, it’s a personal, non-money issue.From a basketball-on-the-floor perspective, I guess they may think he sucks and isn’t worth it anyway — but even in that case, he’s STILL an asset that you can’t let get away for zero.

    19. johnlocke

      Ephus —
      How come no one has talked about this ‘stretch provision’ until now?
      Is your line of thinking on how it works in line with Frank’s?

      ephus:
      With the Humphries signing, the Nets have guaranteed that they will be taxpayers this year, and again next year unless they trade away assets for no salary coming back.The Nets have 5 players each making over $10 million/year for the next two years

      Williams @ $17/$19 million
      Johnson @ $19/$21 million
      Wallace @ $10/$10 million
      Humpries @ $11/$13 million
      Lopez @ $13/$15 million

      Nets are investing this money to try to build a fan base.

    20. Frank

      johnlocke: How come no one has talked about this ‘stretch provision’ until now?

      LOL, Brian has been screaming it from the rafters for 2 days now if you look back at his posts. I asked Larry Coon, Zach Lowe, Hahn, Ian Begley, Jared Zwerling etc. etc. to comment on it as early as sunday, but no one has mentioned it until today.

      johnlocke:
      Frank if the below is true, that you’re right that it’s a no-brainer unless Woody has zero faith in him, or Dolan is still really PISSED even after a few days have passed. The thing is Lin is going to get his money anyway, so is Dolan really ‘punishing’ him by not matching?
      I’d rather stick it to the Rockets and match Lin, leaving them with no point guard options, if I were a vindictive owner

      I’m actually feeling like Dolan is pissed both at Lin and at the Rockets – and is leaving them both to twist in the wind until the last minute. This 3 day waiting period really HAS hurt the Rockets if the Knicks match since Felton and Brooks both disappeared from the market in the last 48h.

      I think they’ll match at the last minute, and laugh as Morey trots out 4 PFs and Toney Douglas as his starting lineup (of course Morey will get the last laugh and win the lottery next year). Then it’ll be makeup time between the rest of the can’t-keep-my-mouth-shut Knicks, the FO, and Lin. And it’ll all blow over by training camp.

    21. thenamestsam

      ephus:
      With the Humphries signing, the Nets have guaranteed that they will be taxpayers this year, and again next year unless they trade away assets for no salary coming back.The Nets have 5 players each making over $10 million/year for the next two years

      Williams @ $17/$19 million
      Johnson @ $19/$21 million
      Wallace @ $10/$10 million
      Humpries @ $11/$13 million
      Lopez @ $13/$15 million

      Nets are investing this money to try to build a fan base.

      Assuming that’s the starting 5 Wallace would be the LOWEST paid member on a yearly basis. How wild is that?

    22. ephus

      johnlocke:
      Ephus —
      How come no one has talked about this ‘stretch provision’ until now?
      Is your line of thinking on how it works in line with Frank’s?

      Frank has it precisely correct, although the tax implications shift depending on how far the rest of the roster puts the Knicks are over the tax line. If Lin were a total fiasco (and untradable), they could waive and stretch after next season, which would extend the payments over 5 years ($4 million/year in salary – plus associated tax payments).

      But the “stretch provision” requires that the Knicks waive Lin, which would mean they would only get 1 or 2 years of performance for $25 million in salary plus the associated tax ($12 million if waived after year 1, $20 million if waived after year 2).

      In all, the “waive and stretch” option limits the possible downside if Lin is horrible, but it probably would not come into play if Lin were a rotation PG (because he would be traded instead).

    23. ephus

      BTW, Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak said last night that the Lakers likely will not use their mini-MLE this off-season. The Lakers are already at $90 million for this season and are looking at an even bigger payroll next season because Kobe moves up to $30 million. The extra $3 million MLE would cost $3 million in tax this year, but around $12 million in tax next year.

    24. johnlocke

      Well given that, if enough Knicks fans actually understand these intricacies, there will probably be riots outside MSG if the Knicks don’t match….doesn’t sound like there is a real down-side and there is no way the Knicks can ‘punish’ Lin (unless you think going to live in a cheap city like Houston for tons of money is punishment), but they can punish the Rockets by matching. Hopefully Dolan doesn’t fuck this up.

      ephus: Frank has it precisely correct, although the tax implications shift depending on how far the rest of the roster puts the Knicks are over the tax line. If Lin were a total fiasco (and untradable), they could waive and stretch after next season, which would extend the payments over 5 years ($4 million/year in salary – plus associated tax payments).

      But the “stretch provision” requires that the Knicks waive Lin, which would mean they would only get 1 or 2 years of performance for $25 million in salary plus the associated tax ($12 million if waived after year 1, $20 million if waived after year 2).

      In all, the “waive and stretch” option limits the possible downside if Lin is horrible, but it probably would not come into play if Lin were a rotation PG (because he would be traded instead).

    25. johnno

      I think that the Nets own the Rockets first round pick next year which would mean that Prokhorov, not Morey, would get the last laugh. If I didn’t hate the Nets so much, I would be rooting hard for that to happen…

      Frank: (of course Morey will get the last laugh and win the lottery next year).

    26. ephus

      johnno: I think that the Nets own the Rockets first round pick next year which would mean that Prokhorov, not Morey, would get the last laugh. If I didn’t hate the Nets so much, I would be rooting hard for that to happen…

      No. The Nets shipped that pick to the Hawks as part of the Joe Johnson deal. More importantly, it is lottery, so if the Rockets miss the playoffs, they are keeping the pick.

      2013 first round draft pick to Atlanta
      Houston’s own 2013 1st round pick to Atlanta via Brooklyn (top 14 protected in 2013, top 14 protected in 2014, top 14 protected in 2015 and top 14 protected in the 2016 Draft). If Atlanta via Brooklyn does not receive a 1st round pick from Houston by the 2016 Draft, then Houston will convey their own 2017 2nd round pick and cash to Atlanta via Brooklyn. [Brooklyn- Houston - Los Angeles Lakers, 12/15/2010 and then Atlanta-Brooklyn, 7/11/2012]

      Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed#ixzz20tZjyTxb

    27. ess-dog

      ephus:
      With the Humphries signing, the Nets have guaranteed that they will be taxpayers this year, and again next year unless they trade away assets for no salary coming back.The Nets have 5 players each making over $10 million/year for the next two years

      Williams @ $17/$19 million
      Johnson @ $19/$21 million
      Wallace @ $10/$10 million
      Humpries @ $11/$13 million
      Lopez @ $13/$15 million

      Nets are investing this money to try to build a fan base.

      This still only looks like about a 33 win team to me.

    28. thenamestsam

      johnlocke:
      Well given that, if enough Knicks fans actually understand these intricacies, there will probably be riots outside MSG if the Knicks don’t match….doesn’t sound like there is a real down-side and there is no way the Knicks can ‘punish’ Lin (unless you think going to live in a cheap city like Houston for tons of money is punishment), but they can punish the Rockets by matching. Hopefully Dolan doesn’t fuck this up.

      The thing is the fanbase as a whole definitively does not understand the intricacies of this. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard someone in the last couple days mention something incorrect about how Lin affects the future cap situation I’d have enough to pay his tax burden myself. The majority of the fanbase thinks that signing Lin is going to prevent us from having the future flexibility to sign a different PG and a large chunk of them think that PG is going to be CP3. Hell, the NBA cap is confusing enough if you’re a diehard. If all you know is what you hear in a 30 second soundbite on sportscenter how could you possibly even begin to make sense of it?

    29. ephus

      Larry Coon, the epitome of an informed observer on salary cap issues, says it is a no brainer that the Knicks should match.

      http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=8173221&_slug_=nba-new-york-knicks-match-houston-rockets-offer-jeremy-lin&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fstory%3fid%3d8173221%26_slug_%3dnba-new-york-knicks-match-houston-rockets-offer-jeremy-lin

      That does not mean that the Knicks will match, but cooler heads are coming forward.

    30. Degree_Absolute

      We are not going to match Lin’s offer sheet. I am begging you all to not get my hopes up. I don’t want to have another post-Scott Kazmir trade meltdown like I did a decade ago.

    31. johnlocke

      Very true. Hopefully Dolan’s Brain > Dolan’s bitterness/anger

      thenamestsam: The thing is the fanbase as a whole definitively does not understand the intricacies of this. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard someone in the last couple days mention something incorrect about how Lin affects the future cap situation I’d have enough to pay his tax burden myself. The majority of the fanbase thinks that signing Lin is going to prevent us from having the future flexibility to sign a different PG and a large chunk of them think that PG is going to be CP3. Hell, the NBA cap is confusing enough if you’re a diehard. If all you know is what you hear in a 30 second soundbite on sportscenter how could you possibly even begin to make sense of it?

    32. johnlocke

      Yes I read that, very good and clear article. The more I think about it, Knicks could also just be bluffing the Rockets that they won’t match, so they don’t get another restructured contract with even worse terms and of course to screw the Rockets. I will be very surprised if they don’t match.

      ephus:
      Larry Coon, the epitome of an informed observer on salary cap issues, says it is a no brainer that the Knicks should match.

      http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=8173221&_slug_=nba-new-york-knicks-match-houston-rockets-offer-jeremy-lin&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fstory%3fid%3d8173221%26_slug_%3dnba-new-york-knicks-match-houston-rockets-offer-jeremy-lin

      That does not mean that the Knicks will match, but cooler heads are coming forward.

    33. 2FOR18

      ephus:
      If the Knicks keep Lin, I can easily see them making the following move during the off-season to get out from under the huge tax for 2014-15:

      Lin/Chandler to Philadelphia for Turner/Iguadola.

      Knicks would shift Melo to the 4 and Amar’e to the 5.Philadelphia will have Lin to play PG if Jrue Holliday does not return as a RFA, and can play Holliday and Lin together if he Holliday returns.

      With Iguodola and Shumpert as the wing defenders, Amar’e would not be called upon do much defensively other than play straight man-to-man in the post (and there are not a lot of post-up 5s anymore).

      Man, that’s about as unDolan as a trade can be. Two stars for 2 guys he never heard of.

    34. formido

      Funny to see Lin’s style of play considered too risky. As far as I know, he has no history of being injury prone. He does appear to be fearless. He’s gonna get a lot of bruises and bloody noses. He’s also tough. He’ll play though them the same way Iverson or Kobe does.

      Meniscus tears are glorified overuse injuries. They often heal on their own, and some athletes don’t even have theirs anymore. Lin played through it for awhile but in a compressed season there was no time for healing.

      Shumperts injury is both more career minimizing and correlated with further career minimizing injuries, but we still were loathe to lose him to the suns, even for Nash. Fans hope. Unless they have other reasons to not like a player, possibly having nothing to do with basketball risks.

      Iverson was universally heralded for his brave and tough style of play. I’m pretty sure Lin deserves the same credit.

    35. 2FOR18

      thenamestsam: Assuming that’s the starting 5 Wallace would be the LOWEST paid member on a yearly basis. How wild is that?

      Did you see Wallace’s quotes about not liking NY, and how he’s gonna stay in Jersey and hire someone to drive him to the games?
      So at least melo’s not the only one who needs a lesson from Jeter in media/fan relations.

    36. 2FOR18

      johnlocke:
      Well given that, if enough Knicks fans actually understand these intricacies, there will probably be riots outside MSG if the Knicks don’t match….doesn’t sound like there is a real down-side and there is no way the Knicks can ‘punish’ Lin (unless you think going to live in a cheap city like Houston for tons of money is punishment), but they can punish the Rockets by matching. Hopefully Dolan doesn’t fuck this up.

      This is why there is virtual rioting on here. Brian has been all over this stretch provision. If our local sportswriters spent more time reading this blog instead of working their (imaginary?) anonymous sources, the entire fan base would be much better informed.

    37. Degree_Absolute

      johnlocke: The more I think about it, Knicks could also just be bluffing the Rockets that they won’t match, so they don’t get another restructured contract with even worse terms

      Once the Knicks have the actual offer sheet in hand, I would be really surprised if the Rockets are allowed make any further changes. If they could, I don’t think deals would ever be finalized in restricted free agency.

    38. 2FOR18

      ess-dog: This still only looks like about a 33 win team to me.

      I’ll take the over on that. Looks like a 42-45 win team to me.

    39. Count de Pennies

      johnlocke: Hopefully Dolan doesn’t fuck this up.

      I learned a long time ago not to harbor such impossible hopes.

      O, that way madness lies; let me shun that;
      No more of that.

    40. Frank

      btw, as far as the meme that Lin didn’t play well under Woodson – his per-36 numbers in that 7 game stretch:
      17 points, 6.9 assists, 5.1 rebounds, 1.3 steals (4.8 TOs- ouch)
      FG% 43% and 3P% 29% BUT — FTA/FGA of 0.57 (would have been #1 among all PGs) which = TS% of 59 for that stretch.

      He only averaged 11.5 FGA/36 – probably exactly the right amount.

      he was VERY GOOD under Woodson – and probably was playing injured while putting up those numbers.

    41. ruruland

      Frank:
      btw, as far as the meme that Lin didn’t play well under Woodson – his per-36 numbers in that 7 game stretch:
      17 points, 6.9 assists, 5.1 rebounds, 1.3 steals (4.8 TOs- ouch)
      FG% 43% and 3P% 29% BUT — FTA/FGA of 0.57 (would have been #1 among all PGs) which = TS% of 59 for that stretch.

      He only averaged 11.5 FGA/36 – probably exactly the right amount.

      he was VERY GOOD under Woodson – and probably was playing injured while putting up those numbers.

      Exactly, heavy doses of high pnr, too. Why would the isolation coach wait for Lin to go down to implement his system?

    42. johnlocke

      Yup and it’s funny when you read loudmouth journalists like Stephen A, who has the loudest column saying Knicks shouldn’t match. This is the same guy that after that Lakers game wrote: “now that we know Jeremy Lin is the real deal, it’s up to Melo and D’Antoni to adapt” as his subheadline.

      http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7565385/stephen-smith-new-york-knicks-mike-dantoni-carmelo-anthony-make-jeremy-lin-thing-work

      Frank:
      btw, as far as the meme that Lin didn’t play well under Woodson – his per-36 numbers in that 7 game stretch:
      17 points, 6.9 assists, 5.1 rebounds, 1.3 steals (4.8 TOs- ouch)
      FG% 43% and 3P% 29% BUT — FTA/FGA of 0.57 (would have been #1 among all PGs) which = TS% of 59 for that stretch.

      He only averaged 11.5 FGA/36 – probably exactly the right amount.

      he was VERY GOOD under Woodson – and probably was playing injured while putting up those numbers.

    43. formido

      It’s interesting to see the schism in opinion between informed and uninformed fans. In forums like this, it’s 80-90% for bringing Lin back. On more plebeian forums, it’s worse than 50-50.

      One of the sillier arguments against is that the sample of evidence is too poor. It’s a “gamble”. Can you imagine? Think of the cost in combined salary and opportunity cost when a team chooses to rebuild through the draft. For the Knicks, Lin is a bird in the hand whose evidence is the gold standard, actual NBA games; compare to the poor evidence and opportunity teams gamble on in the draft every year.

    44. Z

      ephus:

      Lin/Chandler to Philadelphia for Turner/Igoudala

      Didn’t I read here that Igoudala had been traded to the Raptors?

    45. Frank

      btw, list of players that have put up 19/8/4 per 36 in last 20 years:
      1) CP3
      2) Nash
      3) Gary Payton
      4) Baron Davis
      5) Russell Westbrook
      6) Rod Strickland
      7) Jeremy Lin

      http://bkref.com/tiny/ArwDD

      I’m going to go crazy if they don’t match him. Seriously working myself into a frenzy here. Even if he is the post-Woodson J-Lin for the rest of his life, he’s still worth it considering the off-court stuff.

    46. Z

      Caleb:
      you know we are talking about insane people.

      I know, I know…

      It’s strange that no one has reported that Isiah Thomas is the one advising Dolan on this… At least that’s a positive shift.

    47. flossy

      2FOR18: Did you see Wallace’s quotes about not liking NY, and how he’s gonna stay in Jersey and hire someone to drive him to the games?
      So at least melo’s not the only one who needs a lesson from Jeter in media/fan relations.

      Meh. Many Knicks players don’t reside in the 5 boroughs either, at least not in-season. Get back to me when Wallace calls Brook Lopez’s contract ridiculous.

    48. Degree_Absolute

      formido: compare to the poor evidence and opportunity teams gamble on in the draft every year.

      To be fair, you typically don’t have to invest 25 million guaranteed right off the bat with draft picks. I can understand the hesitation about paying him that much, but it is pretty clear that he is currently at least a solid rotation player with upside. He may even be better than that. With excitement that he brings along the marketing potential, not matching would be pretty stupid.

    49. garfangle

      If I was Dolan I would consider three scenarios for Lin before the 2014-2015 season if I wanted to minimize the lux tax impact:

      1) A bust: waive him and spread his $15M salary over three years.

      2) An average player: trade him to another team based on expiring contract.

      3) Linsanity proven: Retain him and see if you can dump/trade one of your other pricey players in Melo/Stat/Chandler or get rid over Felton/Kidd/Novak together.

    50. Aharon

      It’s normal that I’m updating this page every five minutes and that I had trouble sleeping last night, right guys?

    51. StatsTeacher

      I spent some time on the Houston Blogs this am. Houston has gone all in on getting Lin, they have no PG’s. If the Knicks match, Douglas (!!) will be their opening night PG, a very scary thought. They did an excellent poker move, they want Lin and made a play that puts the Knicks in an awful spot. They caught the Knicks flat footed. They realized the “float out” offer of 5/5/9/9 was a joke and put together a different one. Why make a RFA an offer if you don’t really want him/have no chance at him? GS does that all the time, and they never land RFA’s. I actually wonder, at this point, what Lin wants. Run Linsanity unchecked in Houston, or try and keep the 9 armed Knick monster happy.

    52. Degree_Absolute

      StatsTeacher: Houston has gone all in on getting Lin, they have no PG’s. If the Knicks match, Douglas (!!) will be their opening night PG, a very scary thought.

      I would get the whole vindictive/crush your enemy approach if it was an Eastern conference rival, but it doesn’t seem realistic to me with Houston. We play these guys twice a year so I don’t see the real benefit for the Knicks to clampdown on Houston’s negotiating ability while we scoop up all the other PG options AND match Lin. If anything it hurts us in a future deal. Am I missing something?

    53. johnlocke

      Yes, the wrath of Dolan!

      Degree_Absolute: I would get the whole vindictive/crush your enemy approach if it was an Eastern conference rival, but it doesn’t seem realistic to me with Houston.We play these guys twice a year so I don’t see the real benefit for the Knicks to clampdown on Houston’s negotiating ability while we scoop up all the other PG options AND match Lin.If anything it hurts us in a future deal.Am I missing something?

    54. Frank

      Degree_Absolute: I would get the whole vindictive/crush your enemy approach if it was an Eastern conference rival, but it doesn’t seem realistic to me with Houston.We play these guys twice a year so I don’t see the real benefit for the Knicks to clampdown on Houston’s negotiating ability while we scoop up all the other PG options AND match Lin.If anything it hurts us in a future deal.Am I missing something?

      1) show that we will defend our RFAs so other teams are less likely to do it in the future
      2) just to piss them off

      I actually don’t mind the Felton trade even if we re-sign Lin (I hate it if that’s WHY we didn’t re-sign Lin). 1st – it came with Kurt Thomas, one of my favorite Knicks of the last 20 years. Second, we are collecting a lot of mid-priced contracts that are good assets in future trades. There are literally ZERO good free agent PGs on the market next year other than Calderon and Jarrett Jack.

      Someone’s PG is going to go down with an injury this year, and that might open up an opportunity to trade one of the 26 we have.

    55. 2FOR18

      Degree_Absolute: I would get the whole vindictive/crush your enemy approach if it was an Eastern conference rival, but it doesn’t seem realistic to me with Houston.We play these guys twice a year so I don’t see the real benefit for the Knicks to clampdown on Houston’s negotiating ability while we scoop up all the other PG options AND match Lin.If anything it hurts us in a future deal.Am I missing something?

      James Dolan.

      I’m actually getting more optimistic about this thanks to the general “tune change”. By now, even Dolan must understand the mitigation of the tax risks due to the stretch provision. I’m hoping the delay is simply due to Dolan being a big baby and wanting to let Houston and Lin twist in the wind.

      And I need to get a life for worrying about tune changes and stretch positions.

    56. StatsTeacher

      I agree, why are the Knicks playing it out this way? They are even disputing the deadline! As for if Houston did anything “unethical” I don’t believe so. As a union rep. rule #1 is “What does the fuckin’ contract SAY” cause that is all that matters. Changing an alleged oral deal is done daily in contract negotiations. One thing I have noticed in FA signings is the Western Conference is on the uptick, and Houston is playing in a nightmare division, while the East is Miami and then a huge fall off. Knicks are # 2 seed if they match, unknown if they don’t. 4th 5th?

      Degree_Absolute: I would get the whole vindictive/crush your enemy approach if it was an Eastern conference rival, but it doesn’t seem realistic to me with Houston.We play these guys twice a year so I don’t see the real benefit for the Knicks to clampdown on Houston’s negotiating ability while we scoop up all the other PG options AND match Lin.If anything it hurts us in a future deal.Am I missing something?

    57. Caleb

      Who knows what will happen, but the Knicks MIGHT be hemming and hawing, as part of a long-term strategy.

      I mean, it seems obvious that they were pissed at the new deal – there’s too much noise, too many sources there. And Grunwald running around Vegas trying to avoid the subpoena is a pretty funny image. But even once a decision is made, it helps the franchise overall to be seen as at least somewhat concerned about cost. Partly just PR with the other owners, and partly the Nixonian aspect – be unpredictable to your enemies.

    58. JC Knickfan

      Frank:
      btw, as far as the meme that Lin didn’t play well under Woodson – his per-36 numbers in that 7 game stretch:
      17 points, 6.9 assists, 5.1 rebounds, 1.3 steals (4.8 TOs- ouch)
      FG% 43% and 3P% 29% BUT — FTA/FGA of 0.57 (would have been #1 among all PGs) which = TS% of 59 for that stretch.

      He only averaged 11.5 FGA/36 – probably exactly the right amount.

      he was VERY GOOD under Woodson – and probably was playing injured while putting up those numbers.

      This version Lin with less TO better 3pt shooting is I’m asking for. It’s far from a stretch.

    59. JC Knickfan

      Frank: 1) show that we will defend our RFAs so other teams are less likely to do it in the future
      2) just to piss them off

      I actually don’t mind the Felton trade even if we re-sign Lin (I hate it if that’s WHY we didn’t re-sign Lin). 1st – it came with Kurt Thomas, one of my favorite Knicks of the last 20 years.Second, we are collecting a lot of mid-priced contracts that are good assets in future trades.There are literally ZERO good free agent PGs on the market next year other than Calderon and Jarrett Jack.

      Someone’s PG is going to go down with an injury this year, and that might open up an opportunity to trade one of the 26 we have.

      I rather kept JJ over Kurt. 30 years old to 40 next season. Not trade for Felton and get 2 guard instead to play backup to JR.
      Lin/Kidd at PG and give Garbage minutes that other guy.

    60. johnlocke

      According to Stephen A. Smith — and the Knicks could be feeding him garbage, but he does have solid sources, even though he’s an idiot loudmouth — he says 2% chance the Knicks match. Reasons basically come down to they’re pissed at Lin and thinks he has a big head and that he’s not worth the money—absolutely asinine reasons. I’m really going to be pissed if they lose Lin, less so b/c I’m in love with Lin and more so, b/c it will confirm the utter stupidity and juvenile behavior that surrounds this franchise that I have a stupidly, one-way relationship of love with.

      Caleb:
      Who knows what will happen, but the Knicks MIGHT be hemming and hawing, as part of a long-term strategy.

      I mean, it seems obvious that they were pissed at the new deal – there’s too much noise, too many sources there. And Grunwald running around Vegas trying to avoid the subpoena is a pretty funny image. But even once a decision is made, it helps the franchise overall to be seen as at least somewhat concerned about cost. Partly just PR with the other owners, and partly the Nixonian aspect – be unpredictable to your enemies.

    61. Frank O.

      It is in the Knicks interest to wait til the 11th hour to match.
      The longer Houston waits, the less likely it is that they can land a point guard. With Felton off the market there aren’t many options out there.

      It comes down to this: If Grunwald is making the calls, Lin gets signed and they are screwing the Rockets; and if Dolan is making the call, the Knicks let Lin go for nothing AND use the morality clause to get rid of Kidd.

    62. Frank O.

      JC Knickfan: I rather kept JJ over Kurt. 30 years old to 40 next season.Not trade for Felton and get 2 guard instead to play backup to JR.
      Lin/Kidd at PG and give Garbage minutes that other guy.

      except Kurt can hit a shot.

    63. Frank

      Frank O.: except Kurt can hit a shot.

      Kurt is one of the best mid-long range jumpshooters in the league, no joke. And he can still play D.

    64. StatsTeacher

      Wow, this sounds like SAS garbage. When the dust settles, the real reason(s) for LinWatch (stolen from the Dreamshake Houston blog) should become clear. To date, Lin has never acted in any way that SAS is suggesting.

      johnlocke:
      According to Stephen A. Smith — and the Knicks could be feeding him garbage, but he does have solid sources, even though he’s an idiot loudmouth — he says 2% chance the Knicks match. Reasons basically come down to they’re pissed at Lin and thinks he has a big head and that he’s not worth the money—absolutely asinine reasons. I’m really going to be pissed if they lose Lin, less so b/c I’m in love with Lin and more so, b/c it will confirm the utter stupidity and juvenile behavior that surrounds this franchise that I have a stupidly, one-way relationship of love with.

    65. MeloDrama

      The Knicks will match Lin. Mark my words.

      What’s coming out of SAS’ mouth seals it. It’s the narrative Dolan wants. “The basketball people have decided to let Lin go, but DOLAN may veto and change his mind.”

      It accomplishes all of his goals. He gets to ride in like the white knight and save Linsanity at the 11th hour, pushing those stat geeks who work for him aside.

      He rattles Lin’s cage and screws with the Rockets.

      He lets the world know just how much he’s willing to pay to please his fans; they won’t take his spending here for granted, as they would otherwise. They know the contract. Heck, the world does.

      Steals the headlines from the Nets. Bolsters Lin’s celebrity and that of his team.

      Smith’s wording seals it. They’re stressing that ‘Dolan’ may change his mind. This is what he wants.

    66. MeloDrama

      Also note Hahn’s words of reason, citing why they should match, while the rumors are they won’t. He’s their mouthpiece.

    67. 2FOR18

      Frank O.:
      It is in the Knicks interest to wait til the 11th hour to match.
      The longer Houston waits, the less likely it is that they can land a point guard. With Felton off the market there aren’t many options out there.

      It comes down to this: If Grunwald is making the calls, Lin gets signed and they are screwing the Rockets; and if Dolan is making the call, the Knicks let Lin go for nothing AND use the morality clause to get rid of Kidd.

      LOL. Dolan using a morality clause? After the Truck Party and Auncha-gate?

    68. JC Knickfan

      Frank: Kurt is one of the best mid-long range jumpshooters in the league, no joke. And he can still play D.

      Kurt was my favorite Knick during the Marbury era so I do have some love from his first go around.

      I did double check Kurt definitely had better shooting % last year. Honestly how much Portland games did you watch make that assessment on defense. Personal I found impossible make assessment w/o watching last year game checking out his positioning to offensively player and if he boxing for rebounds.
      We did saw all charges JJ got and uses long body very nice on defense. Yes he is bad on offense, but I’m think more about offense/defense subbing for Stat.

      Also Copeland Known for Defense?

    69. 2FOR18

      I’ve always liked Kurt, but Jeffires’ ability to guard all 5 positions will be missed, especially with Shump probably not being 100% until next season. I think we’re OK down low with Chandler and Camby.

    70. Z

      2FOR18: LOL. Dolan using a morality clause?After the Truck Party and Auncha-gate?

      Is there really a morality clause? (If so, wasn’t Eddy Curry’s sexual harassment of his limo driver in some violation of it??)

      But I don’t think Kidd should be concerned. Dolan likes his his characters flawed. They remind him of his youth.

    71. ephus

      If Kurt Thomas is playing more than spot minutes, something has gone horribly wrong this season.

    72. JC Knickfan

      Who going to backup Stat then?
      Woodson seem like 10 man rotation, but could be less with normal schedule.

    73. Caleb

      @74 Melo will play a lot of minutes at the 4 – if we had a real SF I coudl see him play primarily 4. He killed at that position offensively, and IMO better defensively without having to chase smaller players.

    74. DRed

      Caleb:
      @74 Melo will play a lot of minutes at the 4 – if we had a real SF I coudl see him play primarily 4. He killed at that position offensively, and IMO better defensively without having to chase smaller players.

      Melo’s best position is probably the 4, because it stops him from taking stupid long jumpshots, which is probably the worst part of his game on offense. In retrospect, we should have amnestied Amare. Rooting for this team is getting depressing.

    75. arthurprescott2

      Still think its overly optimistic to say that Dolan arranged all this and is slickly using the his media mouthpieces to put himself into a better position. That said, if Lin does come back, how does a 23 year-old kid handle coming back to a team whose “mouthpieces” and players (just JR really) tried to assassinate his character?

      If this was some kind of intricate move on Dolan’s part as suggested upthread to rattle Lin’s cage and mess with Houston, I might have to applaud the execution. This would be a good recovery from the initial overreaction.

    76. JC Knickfan

      In offense/defense subbing scenario still seem best we resign JJ. Who going be new charge master? Our Nick Collison/Battier person? Yes flopper if you must.

      I guess TC/Camby/Melo/JR/Kidd might best defensive lineup until Shump comes back?

    77. MeloDrama

      arthurprescott2:
      Still think its overly optimistic to say that Dolan arranged all this and is slickly using the his media mouthpieces to put himself into a better position. That said, if Lin does come back, how does a 23 year-old kid handle coming back to a team whose “mouthpieces” and players (just JR really) tried to assassinate his character?

      If this was some kind of intricate move on Dolan’s part as suggested upthread to rattle Lin’s cage and mess with Houston, I might have to applaud the execution. This would be a good recovery from the initial overreaction.

      It might not even be that intricate. He could have got angry, said ‘screw this guy’, then relented and told Grunwald “Fine, I’ll spend the money, but I’m taking the damn credit.”

    78. Caleb

      I don’t think it’s an elaborate ruse – I think the initial tantrum was real – but I think there is now or was a real debate within the Knick organization, and there may be some strategy at work in the last day or two.

    79. arthurprescott2

      Hmmm I guess I’m premising “intricate” on the assumption that Dolan/minions manipulated multiple media mouthpieces into taking a softer stance (or even going against their original stance) and asked them (in the initial stages) to strongly imply character flaws and teammate resentment as well as implications that Woodson doesn’t like the kid’s game/fit within the system.

    80. johnlocke

      Ian O’Connor obliterates Stephen A Smith in the match or ditch debate on ESPN radio:

      He basically sets him up by asking, if you could get rid of that third year at $15M, would you match. Stephen A says yes, then Ian brings up trading of Amare, Lin or Chandler in year 3 to nullify tax concerns, trading Lin after year 1 …and doesn’t even need to mention the stretch provision which is a third alternative to dealing with that third year.

      http://espn.go.com/espnradio/newyork/play?id=8170864

    81. 2FOR18

      I wonder if the hold up is that the Knicks want to match, but due to the anti-Lin leaks/quotes and Lin’s best friends from the team being gone, he doesn’t want to come back. So now all parties are trying to come up with some type of way Houston can compensate the Knicks for not matching.

    82. MeloDrama

      2FOR18:
      I wonder if the hold up is that the Knicks want to match, but due to the anti-Lin leaks/quotes and Lin’s best friends from the team being gone, he doesn’t want to come back.So now all parties are trying to come up with some type of way Houston can compensate the Knicks for not matching.

      Think this is the least likely, to be honest. Gonna guess that as angry as he may be with Lin, Dolan isn’t signing off on ‘any’ dealings with Houston and Morey.

    83. ruruland

      2FOR18:
      I wonder if the hold up is that the Knicks want to match, but due to the anti-Lin leaks/quotes and Lin’s best friends from the team being gone, he doesn’t want to come back.So now all parties are trying to come up with some type of way Houston can compensate the Knicks for not matching.

      silly. This isn’t recess.

    84. Frank

      Beck just tweeted that Lin will be a Rocket. He does not write anything without solid sources.

      It’s over.

    85. thenamestsam

      WOW! According to Beck it’s over. Not matching. Fuck this team. Fuck them long and fuck them hard.

    86. johnlocke

      Yeh, just saw that. Fuck, I really fucking hate Dolan, what a fucking asshole. Felton better have his fat ass in amazing shape and Kidd better be sober the entire season. Fuck! Really sucks being a Knick fan.

      Frank:
      Beck just tweeted that Lin will be a Rocket. He does not write anything without solid sources.

      It’s over.

    87. arthurprescott2

      Felton really loses out here. If he has one bad game, people are going to be jumping all over him. He might not be so happy to be back in NYC.

    88. 2FOR18

      Fuk Dolan. Once and for all.

      T minus 8 and counting for the 2500 word post from ruru about how much better melo is gonna be with Kidd/Felton than Lin, complete with video evidence of Felton and melo doing sit-ups, and claims about how Miami is on the verge of a reckonin’!

    89. johnlocke

      Our offense sucked last year…so you bring back the same team, but add Kidd and Felton while getting rid of the most efficient isolation player and the only player on this team with real upside? I really hate being a Knick fan right now. Dolan spends shitloads of money on fucking Steve Francis and Tracy McGrady and Marbury when they’re in their mid 30s and loses a 23 year old starting PG for nothing. What a fucking jackass.

      2FOR18:
      Fuk Dolan.Once and for all.

      T minus 8 and counting for the 2500 word post from ruru about how much better melo is gonna be with Kidd/Felton than Lin, complete with video evidence of Felton and melo doing sit-ups, and claims about how Miami is on the verge of a reckonin’!

    90. Degree_Absolute

      Well, see you guys in three years. I am done with this iteration of the Knicks.

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