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Saturday, November 1, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Feb 21 2012)

  • [New York Post] Jeremy’s stat-stuffer still a Net loss (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:31:42 -0500)
    It was clear from the opening tip Deron Williams was looking forward to his rematch last night with Jeremy Lin and the Knicks. Lin burst onto the scene against Williams and the Nets on Feb. 4, when he came off the bench to score 25 points and dish out seven…

  • [New York Post] It’ll take time to make pieces fit together again (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 03:08:02 -0500)
    Carmelo Anthony wasn’t trying to be the hero last night. He wasn’t trying to reclaim his role as the Knicks’ main man, the guy who needs to take all the shots and make all the big baskets.
    Instead, the highest paid Knick at $18.5 million just tried…

  • [New York Post] Melo return a letdown as Deron torches Knicks (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:31:23 -0500)
    The fears Carmelo Anthony would hurt the wonderful chemistry the Knicks created under Jeremy Lin proved true last night in a Garden stinker.
    Nets point guard Deron Williams, who was the first victim of Linsanity 17 days ago, exacted his revenge with a 100-92 Brooklyn-style beating of Lin’s lackluster…

  • [New York Post] D’Antoni doesn’t recall Melo backing Jeremy (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:32:20 -0500)
    Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni disputed a perception Carmelo Anthony vouched for Jeremy Lin and campaigned to the coaching staff to play the young point guard.
    That notion was reported by ESPN last week, and Lin seemed to confirm it when he said he believed Anthony “vouched” for him.
    “I…

  • [New York Post] Davis’ underwhelming Knicks debut no threat to Linsanity (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:32:04 -0500)
    Mike D’Antoni had a chance to end a controversy before it began when Baron Davis made his Knicks debut last night at the Garden against the Nets.
    But, when the Knicks coach was asked whether he had talked to Davis about understanding his redefined role within the Linsanity surrounding…

  • [New York Post] Knicks oughta deal Melo to L.A. for Gasol (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 03:20:12 -0500)
    A sacrosanct source refutes last week’s Fox report the Lakers and Timberwolves were discussing a trade involving Pau Gasol for Derrick Williams and two draft picks. I’m informed no conversation between the teams has taken place in two months.
    Sure, the subject could be revived as the March…

  • [New York Times] Nets 100, Knicks 92: All the Parts, and Not Enough Points (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:17:16 GMT)
    Though they were the first team to fall to Jeremy Lin’s surprising prowess, the Nets spoiled the returns of Carmelo Anthony and Baron Davis with a victory aided by 38 points from Deron Williams.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Rose Returns and Bulls Slip Past Hawks (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:09:08 GMT)
    Derrick Rose, who had been sidelined because of back pain, returned to the Bulls and scored 23 points in a victory against the Hawks.

  • [New York Times] Deron Williams of Nets Turns Tables on Jeremy Lin (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:09:08 GMT)
    Being the first victim of Linsanity never sat well with Deron Williams, who responded with 38 points in his team’s victory Monday over Jeremy Lin and the Knicks.

  • [New York Times] Lin’s High School Teammates Witness the Buzz Firsthand (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:09:08 GMT)
    A large contingent from Palo Alto High School has been on hand to see Jeremy Lin play.

  • [New York Times] Udoh Lifts Warriors Past Clippers 104-97 (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:29:40 GMT)
    Monta Ellis scored 32 points, Ekpe Udoh had a season-high 19 points and eight rebounds in place of ill starting center Andris Biedrins, and the Golden State Warriors topped the Los Angeles Clippers 104-97 on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Lakers Ride Huge 1st Quarter Past Blazers 103-92 (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:23:44 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant scored 28 points, Andrew Bynum had 14 points and 19 rebounds, and the Los Angeles Lakers roared to a 30-point lead early in the second quarter before holding on for a 103-92 victory over the Portland Trail Blazers on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Nuggets Hold Off Timberwolves in OT, 103-101 (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 05:17:45 GMT)
    Arron Afflalo hit a tiebreaking floater in the lane with 33.7 seconds remaining in overtime and reserve Al Harrington scored a season-high 31 points as the short-handed Denver Nuggets beat the Minnesota Timberwolves 103-101 Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Melo, Lin Partnership Off to Rough Start (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:42:39 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony made his long-awaited return to the Knicks Monday but his partnership with Jeremy Lin failed to fire as New York fell 100-92 to the New Jersey Nets.

  • [New York Times] Parker Lifts Spurs to 11th Straight Win, 106-102 (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:53:43 GMT)
    Tony Parker scored 23 points and Matt Bonner hit five 3-pointers and the San Antonio Spurs defeated the Utah Jazz 106-102 Monday night for their 11th consecutive victory.

  • [New York Times] Gortat, Nash, Frye Lead Suns Over Wizards 104-88 (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:47:40 GMT)
    Marcin Gortat scored 20 points, Steve Nash had 12 points, 11 assists and seven rebounds in three quarters, and the Phoenix Suns beat Washington 104-88 on Monday night for their 10th straight win over the Wizards.

  • [New York Times] Lowry Scores 24, Rockets Hold Off Grizzlies 97-93 (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:00:13 GMT)
    Kyle Lowry scored 24 points, Kevin Martin added 22 and Courtney Lee hit four key free throws down the stretch as the Houston Rockets held off the Memphis Grizzlies 97-93 on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Nowitzki’s 26 Help Lead Mavs Over Celtics, 89-73 (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:00:08 GMT)
    Dirk Nowitzki had 26 points and moved into the top 20 on the NBA career scoring list and the Dallas Mavericks beat the short-handed and struggling Boston Celtics 89-73 Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Howard Scores 28 to Lead Magic Over Bucks 93-90 (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 03:45:11 GMT)
    Dwight Howard had 28 points and 16 rebounds, Jameer Nelson added 15 points and the Orlando Magic beat the Milwaukee Bucks 93-90 Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Hang On to Beat Hornets 101-93 (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 03:48:10 GMT)
    Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook scored 31 points apiece and the Oklahoma City Thunder beat the New Orleans Hornets 101-93 Monday night for their 10th straight home win.

  • [New York Times] Injured Ginobili Sidelined for Two Weeks, Spurs Say (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 03:27:41 GMT)
    The streaking San Antonio Spurs will be without starting guard Manu Ginobili for two weeks after an examination confirmed he has a strained left oblique, the National Basketball Association team said Monday.

  • [New York Times] Williams Has 38, Nets Handle Linsanity This Time (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:38:44 GMT)
    Linsanity started against the New Jersey Nets, and this time All-Star guard Deron Williams was determined not to be embarrassed by the Harvard guy again.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Carmelo Anthony Back in Knicks’ Starting Lineup (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:18:13 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony will be in the starting lineup, and Baron Davis is likely to make his Knicks debut in Monday night’s game against the Nets.

  • [New York Times] Former Top Pick Oden Has 3rd Microfracture Surgery (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 03:26:34 GMT)
    Greg Oden has suffered yet another setback with his troublesome knees.

  • [New York Times] Rose Returns to Power Bulls Past Hawks (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 03:15:34 GMT)
    Derrick Rose made an immediate impact on his return to the Chicago Bulls lineup on Monday as last season’s Most Valuable Player scored a game-high 23 points in a 90-79 victory over the visiting Atlanta Hawks.

  • [New York Times] Anthony, Davis Join the Linsanity (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 01:32:36 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony rejoined the Knicks’ starting lineup Monday night and was part of the Linsanity for the first time since it began sweeping New York.

  • [New York Times] Bulls Roll Behind Rose (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 01:28:22 GMT)
    Derrick Rose scored 23 points in his return from back pain, and the host Chicago Bulls beat the struggling Atlanta Hawks, 90-79, on Monday.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Baron Davis' debut signals key for bench (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:33:00 EDT)
    NEW YORK — Mike D’Antoni had searched for an answer at backup point guard all season, and Monday night against the Nets, it looked like he found one in Baron Davis, who made his season debut.
    Even though the Knicks lost 100-92 to the Nets, Davis showed promise with his ability to get into the paint off the pick-and-roll. Davis played 10 minutes as a sub (a number that should float around 15 to 20 consistently), scoring on a 3-pointer and collecting an assist on a Steve Novak three in the second quarter.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Everybody hates Kris; Morrow loses teeth (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:18:21 EDT)
    NEW YORK — Clearly there’s something about Kris Humphries that gets under people’s skin.
    The crowd booed Kim Kardashian’s ex all night, Carmelo Anthony tripped him and Tyson Chandler followed him halfway into the Nets’ huddle.

    Chris Trotman/Getty ImagesAnthony Morrow lost four teeth after taking an elbow from Carmelo Anthony.
    The Knicks downplayed the incidents after the Nets won 100-92 at the Garden on Monday night.
    “[It was] just nerves and [being] tired and we just don’t like getting beat,” Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni said.

  • [New York Daily News] Harsh Deron reality trumps Linsanity (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:52:29 GMT)
    It started when Mike D’Antoni reached down the bench for Jeremy Lin and inserted him into a game against the Nets on Feb. 4. That was the start of Linsanity.

  • [New York Daily News] Deron goes Linsane, spoils Melo’s return (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:51:43 GMT)
    It wasn’t the return of Carmelo Anthony or even Baron Davis that derailed Jeremy Lin and the Knicks Monday night. It was the return of Deron Williams. The Lin phenomenon started 16 days ago at Madison Square Garden.

  • [New York Daily News] Deron proves his point vs. Lin (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:51:30 GMT)
    Deron Williams helped create the craze at the Garden, but Monday he shut up the Linsaniacs. Until further notice – or if he doesn’t bolt for Dallas in the summer — he’s still the best point guard in the metro area.

  • [New York Daily News] Lin talk boosts NBA ratings (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 05:54:25 GMT)
    Until further notice, Jeremy Lin will not only be driving local ratings for Knicks telecasts on Madison Square Garden Network, but for the NBA’s national TV partners as well.

  • [New York Daily News] DavisanityALL falls flat at Garden  (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 05:45:30 GMT)
    The newest point guard to enter the Knicks lineup lifted his warmup shirt during a timeout with 2:11 left in the first quarter at the Garden Monday night and revealed a No. 85 on his white jersey.

  • [New York Newsday] Knicks can't stop Deron Williams, fall to Nets (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:35:00 EST)
    The debate that Carmelo Anthony can't play with Jeremy Lin should be heating up in three, two, one . . .

  • [New York Newsday] Davis makes brief debut in Knicks' loss (Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:21:26 EST)
    Not long ago, Baron Davis was going to be the one who saved the Knicks.

  • 114 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Feb 21 2012)

    1. er

      I hope the Knicks do that melo for gasol trade so all the media can get off his back….Kobe would love that and I’m sure the Knicks would too

    2. Nick C.

      Too bad about Greg Oden.
      Melo for Gasol maybe I am not up on my rosters but that leaves LAL with Bynum and what to play 4/5. The NYK would have to made another move unless a frontcourt of Stat, Gasol and T-1000 would work or one of them wants the McHale role circa 1983ish.

    3. rururuland2

      Sarcasm? Every loss in NY creates a new trade rumor. It’s just an awful market for a team for so many reasons (and great for a few others).

      Why would Melo want to leave NY after one game with this new team? Why would the Knicks give up on this new team after just one game with all of its players, especially given its 8-2 record in the last 10 games without half as much talent it has now in most of those contests?

      Why would the Lakers trade a big for a wing, when their biggest issue is a disproportionate amount of usage between its relatively ineffecient wing Kobe, and its much more effecient bigs?

      Lakers need a pg, not another wing, certainly not at the cost of its biggest strength.

      What makes you think Gasol would be a better fit in MDA’s system?

      How on earth would you manage Gasol, Amar’e and Chandler? Obvious diminishing marginal returns for both teams.

      If you say you’ll just make another tade, you never make one trade under the assumption that you can make another (so that the roster makes sense) there’s too great a risk both in the cost of doing business, losing leverage and the disruption to chemistry as you try to make the deal.

      Most importantly, why do you think that trading Melo would change how the media (both local and national) would treat the Knicks?

      There’s always going to be at least one scapegoat in New York no matter how well they do and how far they go.

      Melo will never be able to get that target off his back, I’d venture to say, even if he gets a chip.

      If you trade Melo, it’s just going to be someone else, or spread evenly to a few guys.

      Knicks fans are lying to themselves if they think they wouldn’t turn on a non-star team (without an obvious target) if it didn’t start getting great results in a relatively short amount of time.

      The only cannibals in this market are the consumers (“fans”) giving credence to the intentionally disruptive yellow journalism tactics of the hack media.

    4. rururuland2

      Nick C.: Too bad about Greg Oden.Melo for Gasol maybe I am not up on my rosters but that leaves LAL with Bynum and what to play 4/5. The NYK would have to made another move unless a frontcourt of Stat, Gasol and T-1000 would work or one of them wants the McHale role circa 1983ish.

      So it’s safe to say that you believe that the team is a failure after last night’s game?

    5. er

      I think that’s why no one wanted to play here they saw how pat Ewing was treated by the fans and media…it’s not for the weak for sure….I wasn’t really advocating that trade I was kinda making fun of that article

      Last nights game was bound to happen for many reasons…pissed of dwill…integrating new players no shump etc

      Let’s see if everyone jus blames the boogieman melo

    6. jon abbey

      er:

      Let’s see if everyone jus blames the boogieman melo

      he wasn’t the only reason, but he was fucking terrible.

    7. er

      He was bad but not fucking terrible..he was way to passive and deferred way too much to amare…he needs to tune the fans out and look for his shot more in the upcoming games…no way he should be fourth in fg attemts

      jon abbey: he wasn’t the only reason, but he was fucking terrible.

    8. jon abbey

      no, he was awful. too passive early on, then missed shot after turnover after missed shot after turnover. it would have been a bad (read ‘typical’) game for Bill Walker, but for an All-Star, it was terrible.

      this doesn’t mean I hate Melo, it doesn’t mean I love Melo, not every game is a referendum on a guy’s entire career. but he needs to get better, quickly.

    9. rururuland2

      jon abbey: he wasn’t the only reason, but he was fucking terrible.

      But let’s put it into context. He was terrible because the ball was slipping out of his hands, he missed at least 3 layups and he didn’t get a couple of calls he should normally get.

      The results were bad, yes, just as they’ve been Amar’e.

      But when you look at the quality of shots, the high-quality decisions, and how good of a fit he looked at times with his off-ball movement and penetration against rotating defenders, well, I thought all of those were much more important than the end results.

      There’s 9 years of data that suggest that Melo will get those results, especially with the kinds of easy opportunities he’s never really consistently gotten before.

      It wasn’t as though Melo was turning the ball over as a result of over-isolating; not like his shots were missed because they were too heavily contested.

      Those two things would raise red flags in this offense.

    10. er

      Yea the Tos stunk but the dude has been out for 2 weeks…let’s hope he can get in a groove the next two games…he usually feasts on lbj too lol

      jon abbey:
      no, he was awful. too passive early on, then missed shot after turnover after missed shot after turnover. it would have been a bad (read ‘typical’) game for Bill Walker, but for an All-Star, it was terrible.

      this doesn’t mean I hate Melo, it doesn’t mean I love Melo, not every game is a referendum on a guy’s entire career. but he needs to get better, quickly.

    11. rururuland2

      jon abbey: no, he was awful. too passive early on, then missed shot after turnover after missed shot after turnover. it would have been a bad (read ‘typical’) game for Bill Walker, but for an All-Star, it was terrible. this doesn’t mean I hate Melo, it doesn’t mean I love Melo, not every game is a referendum on a guy’s entire career. but he needs to get better, quickly.

      I think it’s really harsh to say Melo was too passive early.

      If that is really how Knicks fans feel about a guy trying to integrate himself into an offense that was doing pretty well with the ball in Lin’s hands 80 percent of the time and after not seeing the floor for two weeks, a guy absolutely murdered for doing too much pre-Lin, well, it’s just impossible for Melo to do right.

    12. jon abbey

      I disagree that Melo’s decisions were generally high-quality, I’m not convinced he can find the balance between being the sole focal point of the offense and being another cog in the wheel.

      and I don’t know why it’s so hard for NY to recognize which players are out there on offense, and who should be getting the shots and who should be trying not to shoot except in emergencies. Melo passing up an open 20 footer with 8 seconds on the shot clock to end up with a jumper from Jeffries is not a high quality decision (as a general, not a specific, example but this kind of thing has happened time and again this season).

    13. er

      No he needs to be more aggressive tho…Im not being harsh on him I like him I’m just saying he could have gotten his shot a few more times …he should be @ at least 15-17 a game….he did well feeding amare tho

      rururuland2: I think it’s really harsh to say Melo was too passive early.

      If that is really how Knicks fans feel about a guy trying to integrate himself into an offense that was doing pretty well with the ball in Lin’s hands 80 percent of the time and after not seeing the floor for two weeks, a guy absolutely murdered for doing too much pre-Lin, well, it’s just impossible for Melo to do right.

    14. jon abbey

      rururuland2: I think it’s really harsh to say Melo was too passive early.
      it’s just impossible for Melo to do right.

      I think it might be, but we’ll see. it’s about balance, and we’ll see if he can do it or not.

    15. rururuland2

      jon abbey: I disagree that Melo’s decisions were generally high-quality, I’m not convinced he can find the balance between being the sole focal point of the offense and being another cog in the wheel. and I don’t know why it’s so hard for NY to recognize which players are out there on offense, and who should be getting the shots and who should be trying not to shoot except in emergencies. Melo passing up an open 20 footer with 8 seconds on the shot clock to end up with a jumper from Jeffries is not a high quality decision (as a general, not a specific, example but this kind of thing has happened time and again this season).

      If Melo takes a 20-footer early in the clock he’s going to get killed on this board and everywhere else. maybe not from you but that’s the reality

      I agree in a sense that he shouldn’t pass up looks, but you hear it from Breen and implictly most in the media about shot selection.

      JR Smith took an early open 3 last night and Breen called it a bad shot. I think that generally reflects most folks perception of things.

    16. Nick C.

      rururuland2: So it’s safe to say that you believe that the team is a failure after last night’s game?

      I’m not sure where you got that inference. Without even going there the trade makes no sense. Eventually one tires of saying ‘cmon it’s one game etc., he was rusty, JR and Baron just got on the court etc. etc.

    17. PC

      We had way too many rusty players on the floor last night and no Shumpert to put a clamp on DWill. When the opposing PG makes 8 threes, you lose. Simple.

      The Knicks need to shoot better from the line and Chandler can’t get into pissing matches with opponents and end up on the bench all game. Poor effort from everyone, no energy.

    18. Owen

      “There’s 9 years of data that suggest that Melo will get those results, especially with the kinds of easy opportunities he’s never really consistently gotten before.”

      Not sure that’s what nine years of data suggest. And I don’t really know how where this idea he has never gotten easy opportunities comes from. Playing next to Andre Miller, Allan Iverson, Chauncey Billups isn’t exactly like playing with Smush Parker. Even Anthony Carter was a decent bench point. He would have been a godsend to the Knicks before we threw Lin into the mix.

      The depressing thing about talking about Melo is that Stat is a million times more of a problem. Untradeable and playing way way worse….

    19. d-mar

      We and the media were all obsessed with Melo’s return – how would he fit in, would he continue to be the alleged ball hog he’s been his whole career, would he disrupt the great chemistry the Knicks have had since Linsanity? Would he play team ball or “hero ball” ? Then we lose to a team where the PG is coming down the court and chucking up (and making) 3 pointers with 20 sec. left on the shot clock.

      Now not to suggest that should be our offense, but the best scorer on our team is Melo, and there will be games where he needs to take over, like when our 3 pointers aren’t falling (see NO and Nets games) Right now, he’s probably thinking too much every time he touches the ball, which is not a good thing.

    20. Grymm

      I thought Melo just looked like a guy who was told 16 hours a day for the last 2 weeks that he was going to screw the offense up when he came back. Also, as his first game back from injury, he may have been a little hesistant to really push it. You never know how you’ll feel the day after.

      Lin was chasing around one of the best PGs in the league who was on fire through heavy screens a night after playing almost the entire game. Him having difficulty closing out doesn’t surprise me at all. The fouls on DWill 3ptrs looked like a tired team who was frustrated.

      I thought the worst game, though, was Tyson. He took himself out of the game with stupid fouls and that’s much worse than a missed shot or two.

      Baron Davis didn’t injure himself so I think that’s an above average game from him.

    21. er

      I totally agree, 11 shots is absurd…he did a good job feeding stat but damn he didn’t really wanna put up any jumpers and when he went in the paint he got no calls…but like you said everyone keeps saying the dude don’t pass so maybe he’s thinking too much and that is. Not good

      d-mar:
      We and the media were all obsessed with Melo’s return – how would he fit in, would he continue to be the alleged ball hog he’s been his whole career, would he disrupt the great chemistry the Knicks have had since Linsanity? Would he play team ball or “hero ball” ? Then we lose to a team where the PG is coming down the court and chucking up (and making) 3 pointers with 20 sec. left on the shot clock.

      Now not to suggest that should be our offense, but the best scorer on our team is Melo, and there will be games where he needs to take over, like when our 3 pointers aren’t falling (see NO and Nets games) Right now, he’s probably thinking too much every time he touches the ball, which is not a good thing.

    22. Caleb

      Owen:

      The depressing thing about talking about Melo is that Stat is a million times more of a problem. Untradeable and playing way way worse….

      Very true but if you want to be an optimist, you can say that maybe he’s going to be the 4th or 5th best player on the team going forward… even with this version of Amare, that’s not a bad mix.

      That said, I doubt it’s on the table but Carmelo for Gasol would be an upgrade. Gasol is the better player and fit isn’t really an issue – at this point in his career, Amare is fine as a 25-30 mpg player and probably doesn’t deserve much more.

    23. Gideon Zaga

      I really expected Melo to take over late last night, draw a foul and and-1s and pound his chest while scowling at the fans. Clearly is psyche took a hit. People forget that Melo played with Lin during the break out game and still didn’t look bad. But now look at the guy, trying to fit in. He can’t even take over cos of what the NY Post will write. Such a sad story, NY is not for the weak. Guy should have taken Kobe’s advice, he knows what he’s talking about. No wander no one wants to come here except Eli. Good thing Lebron Chickened out, that his anti-4th quarter play would left him buying groceries online. Though it’s one game, I hope the guy shakes of the naysayers or even the sayers and just do what Melo do. He will be killed either way, why not justify the killing.

    24. PC

      Another huge area of concern is this growing issue with Lin and the refs. He seems to not only be getting fouled – but absolutely hacked whenever he tries to penetrate.

      Not sure why he isn’t getting the calls….

    25. Caleb

      Anyway it will be interesting to see how this whole thing shakes out. It”s tough to gel on the fly, especially with the brutal schedule we have in the next 2 months. But barring catastrophe this team will make the playoffs and then we’ll see what’s what.

      I think we might see some non-star trades. The Knicks basically have 12 viable rotation players* (plus Douglas, if he can get back to what he was his first 160 games in the league), so they might be able to make a quantity for quality move. They can browse shooting guards and power forwards, but I don’t know who’s out there as a realistic trade target. Dare to dream, maybe Eric Gordon, if the Hornets think he’s out of there (and our doctors think he has a future). Anyone know if we would have Bird rights on him?

      *everyone but Bibby & Jordan, and I guess Jordan might even have some value in a trade.

    26. er

      Great grocery line about lbj

      Gideon Zaga:
      I really expected Melo to take over late last night, draw a foul and and-1s and pound his chest while scowling at the fans. Clearly is psyche took a hit. People forget that Melo played with Lin during the break out game and still didn’t look bad. But now look at the guy, trying to fit in. He can’t even take over cos of what the NY Post will write.Such a sad story, NY is not for the weak. Guy should have taken Kobe’s advice, he knows what he’s talking about. No wander no one wants to come here except Eli. Good thing Lebron Chickened out, that his anti-4th quarter play would left him buying groceries online. Though it’s one game, I hope the guy shakes of the naysayers or even the sayers and just do what Melo do. He will be killed either way, why not justify the killing.

    27. hoolahoop

      I’m the first to get down on Melo, but I’d give him a pass for last night’s game. They didn’t lose because of him.
      First game back, looked rusty. More important, his attitude was right – to just play in the flow of the team. Too bad it wasn’t a positive, winning experience for him. I’m scared it the knicks lose a few he’ll feel the need to revert to his old style of doing everything.
      For now, let’s give him a chance. Soon enough, we’ll see which Melo we have.

    28. d-mar

      PC:
      Another huge area of concern is this growing issue with Lin and the refs. He seems to not only be getting fouled – but absolutely hacked whenever he tries to penetrate.

      Not sure why he isn’t getting the calls….

      Agreed, we didn’t lose that game because of the refs, but I thought some of the non-calls were astounding. There was one play where Melo drove to the basket, took a little 3 ft. runner, got hit on the arm and the shot was 2 ft. short. No call. And that foul on Tyson when he was grappling with Humphries was awful.

    29. Caleb

      @25 I don’t think it’s a psych issue – just think Melo was not 100 percent physically, and obviously rusty from not playing.

      The stuff that drives me crazy is his total obliviousness on defense. I was watching him more closely because of the convo here yesterday, and he’s just completely blind to what anyone but his man is doing. Like the late foul when he was about 2 seconds late with help in the lane… or when Morrow (?) drove the length of the court, right past Melo and Melo didn’t even turn his head because he didn’t see him.

    30. Gideon Zaga

      You’re fucking crazy, Melo is far better than Gasol. Are u kidding? Off course a post up big will help NY but it’s not an upgrade, it’s actually useless or even stupid. Please.

      Caleb: Very true but if you want to be an optimist, you can say that maybe he’s going to be the 4th or 5th best player on the team going forward… even with this version of Amare, that’s not a badmix.

      That said, I doubt it’s on the table but Carmelo for Gasol would be an upgrade. Gasol is the better player and fit isn’t really an issue – at this point in his career, Amare is fine as a 25-30 mpg player and probably doesn’t deserve much more.

    31. Bruno Almeida

      Owen:
      “There’s 9 years of data that suggest that Melo will get those results, especially with the kinds of easy opportunities he’s never really consistently gotten before.”

      Not sure that’s what nine years of data suggest. And I don’t really know how where this idea he has never gotten easy opportunities comes from. Playing next to Andre Miller, Allan Iverson, Chauncey Billups isn’t exactly like playing with Smush Parker. Even Anthony Carter was a decent bench point. He would have been a godsend to the Knicks before we threw Lin into the mix.

      The depressing thing about talking about Melo is that Stat is a million times more of a problem. Untradeable and playing way way worse….

      exactly.

      as much as I hate Carmelo’s contract, it sickens me to watch Amare play matador defense and drive right into defenders on the lane, it’s absolutely irritating to think that he would be overpaid if he had Kris Humphries contract right now.

    32. Gideon Zaga

      Plus Gasol is such a head case mentally, and seems to be 2nd guy on a championship team. He cant handle being the man and always seems to be put down by Kobe. The guy won’t be able to handle the almighty new york media when they jump on him for being down when his gf breaks up with him or trade rumours hit. Plus every time I watch the guy play i feel like he should be singing at the opera house I attend. Not really the toughest guy. And to say he is better than Melo is blatantly disrespectful. Melo is always underappreciated, I cant wait till the playoffs when most of you see how a scoring wing who can score regardless of the defense is a premium in this league. See how Dallas Dirk-legged their way to the finals.

    33. Grymm

      KnicksFanInVA: What about this trade?http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7n7d3bsLakers: Dwight and STAT.Magic: Gasol and Melo.Knicks: Bynum, QRich, and Turkoglu.

      Stat is not tradeable. His contract is uninsured and he’s underperforming. Besides, it would make the Knicks worse. Bynum probably can’t play along side of Tyson. Turk is a bad contract.

      This thread seems to have an awful lot of “sky is falling”. The Stat issue is lingering, but everything else seems extremely knee-jerk.

    34. KnicksFanInVA

      Gideon Zaga:
      How does one refrain from insulting you. Please tell me.

      You’re telling me we wouldn’t be solid with a line up of:

      Chandler
      Bynum
      Turkoglu
      Fields
      Lin

      Amare is done. Mentally or physically, he is not what used to be at all. Why not at least explore what we can get for him?

    35. KnicksFanInVA

      Grymm: Stat is not tradeable.His contract is uninsured and he’s underperforming.Besides, it would make the Knicks worse.Bynum probably can’t play along side of Tyson.Turk is a bad contract.

      This thread seems to have an awful lot of “sky is falling”.The Stat issue is lingering, but everything else seems extremely knee-jerk.

      Everyone can be traded. We got rid of Zach Randolph when he was still considered a cancer.

    36. Gideon Zaga

      I’m telling you I will banned again if I say the things I want to say to you. Are you kidding? let’s leave it at that.

      KnicksFanInVA: You’re telling me we wouldn’t be solid with a line up of:

      Chandler
      Bynum
      Turkoglu
      Fields
      Lin

      Amare is done. Mentally or physically, he is not what used to be at all. Why not at least explore what we can get for him?

    37. Grymm

      I’m sure Amare’s tradeable if you throw in some first rounders and expect little in return. There are few if any other franchises who can eat $80M out of pocket if the lack of explosion he’s showing now is his microfractures catching up to him. As he is now, he’s a non-rebounding, non-defending big who can hit an 18ft sometimes and not finish at the rim. His offensive game is slightly better than JJs right now.

      What I hope is that the offseason weight is an issue. You can’t put on 20lbs of muscle in 6 months. That’s probably mostly weight he put on from resting his back. Along with that, I hope his legs are still not in game shape. If that’s the case, he can play his way back into shape by the playoffs. If it’s his back/knees, all bets are off.

    38. Z-man

      Wow, this is one hyper fan base! You’d think that this game were a referendum on the team, rather than what it really was: a second game of a back-to-back after an emotional win over the defending champs against a team that was looking for revenge to the point that it seemed like a playoff game 7 to them. Their future HOF in his prime PG, who was embarassed in the game that started all this Lin stuff, makes 8 3-pointers, several of the off-the-dribble variety. Oh, and the Knicks are incorporating 2 high-profile guys into the lineup, one off of a groin injury, one who hasn’t played in a year, and their starting C was a game-time decision with a sore wrist and back.

      On the way back from the KB get-together (thanks, MikeK, mosest but fun turnout despite the outcome) I heard Bill Daughtry sum up the game perfectly: The Knicks were playing “getting to know you” ball and the Nets were playing “getting even with you” ball. That was this game in a nutshell.

      I can’t believe how nuts people sound on the basis of this relatively meaningless loss. Get a grip, y’all! Seriously, how many teams have won a game in which an opposing player made at least 8 3’s? Also, was that a record for 4-pt plays? Did you see the likes of Gaines hitting backbreaker shots? Even champoinship teams lose a few games like this every year, without all the “getting to know you” stuff, etc.

    39. Brian Cronin

      Honestly, with this many quality players involved in the rotation, the Knicks likely should at least be considering trades. It shouldn’t be off the table due to fears about gelling. The problem is that I can’t think of any realistic trade opportunities out there.

      As for last night’s loss, it was annoying, but whatever, they hit a lot of threes and the Knicks missed a bunch of threes. We saw against New Orleans that if the Knicks aren’t hitting a decent amount of threes then they are likely going to lose. When Melo gets fully healthy, he might help change that, but for now, that’s the Knicks’ MO (Make Outside shots).

    40. Z-man

      Furthermore, Amare, Melo and Chandler aren’t going anywhere this year. I don’t understand why anyone is even entertaining these possibilities. It ain’t happening. Period. This is your team for the rest of this year. Move on.

      Another thing: Landry played a good game statistically, but Venus de Milo could shoot better from the FT line right now. He put up a brick the likes of which I have never seen from a supposed SG. How hard is it to put arc on a FT? You would think a Stanford grad could figure that out. Clearly he wasn’t a physics major. I don’t know what is uglier, a Jeffries lay-up foray or a Fields FT (his 3-pt form is only slightly less ugly.)

    41. Brian Cronin

      The Knicks’ free throw shooting period has been ugly as of late.

      Lin’s hit the same percentage from three-point land on Sunday as he did from the line!

      The Knicks have whiffed on both free throws on multiple occasions (Melo being the most recent culprit). You have to hit your free throws, people!

    42. jon abbey

      Brian Cronin:
      The problem is that I can’t think of any realistic trade opportunities out there.

      can Orlando do better than Chandler/Melo for Howard/Turkoglu? I’d even consider throwing in Lin for Nelson if absolutely necessary, Nelson’s deal is up the same time as Chris Paul’s (after next season).

    43. Z-man

      Brian Cronin: Honestly, with this many quality players involved in the rotation, the Knicks likely should at least be considering trades. It shouldn’t be off the table due to fears about gelling. The problem is that I can’t think of any realistic trade opportunities out there.As for last night’s loss, it was annoying, but whatever, they hit a lot of threes and the Knicks missed a bunch of threes. We saw against New Orleans that if the Knicks aren’t hitting a decent amount of threes then they are likely going to lose. When Melo gets fully healthy, he might help change that, but for now, that’s the Knicks’ MO (Make Outside shots).

      I don’t think that is necessarily true, Brian, I think the Knicks have a lot of ways to beat teams. They can go big or small, 3-pt shooters or rebounder/defenders, etc. Deron’s 3-pt binge was a record for opposing players at the Garden, I think, so hardly a statement on how to beat the Knicks. Bottom line is, we are 8-2 in our last 10 games, so I don’t get the crazy trade talk after one lackluster loss given all that I mentioned above.

    44. Z-man

      jon abbey: can Orlando do better than Chandler/Melo for Howard/Turkoglu? I’d even consider throwing in Lin for Nelson if absolutely necessary, Nelson’s deal is up the same time as Chris Paul’s (after next season).

      Come on, jon, you must know that it simply ain’t happening. Why can’t we just enjoy this team for a little while?

    45. Brian Cronin

      can Orlando do better than Chandler/Melo for Howard/Turkoglu? I’d even consider throwing in Lin for Nelson if absolutely necessary, Nelson’s deal is up the same time as Chris Paul’s (after next season).

      Yeah, Chandler + either STAT or Melo for Howard/Hedu is the only one I can even sort of see. I just don’t know what the heck they are thinking in Orlando, ya know? And as you note, they might insist on Lin, and I don’t think I’d trade Lin before we know how good he can be over a full season.

    46. Caleb

      Brian, that’s basically what I’m saying.. Knicks could do 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 and maybe get a real upgrade at SG or PF. Of course depends who is made available. Or, they could move a player or two for a draft pick, rather than be #11 and #12 in the rotation.

      Gideon, you’re in the minority here if you think Melo is a better or more valuable player than Gasol.

    47. Bruno Almeida

      jon abbey: can Orlando do better than Chandler/Melo for Howard/Turkoglu? I’d even consider throwing in Lin for Nelson if absolutely necessary, Nelson’s deal is up the same time as Chris Paul’s (after next season).

      I’d rather trade Amare, but that’s probably more realistic with Melo on the trade…

    48. Caleb

      @52 I know it’s a little risky making a trade and assuming you can make another, but I’d just offer Melo for Howard straight up. I still don’t think they’d get a better offer, unless the Lakers deal everyone is talking about, is real.

      And in that case you could do a lot better for Chandler, than Turkoglu.

    49. Grymm

      I don’t think there is any way Lin could be traded. Even if he had a max contract, the amount of interest/viewership he creates is huge. Who owns the team? MSG and Cablevision who directly profit from that viewership. He’s a cash cow.

      Also, Orlando might view Stat’s contract as worse than Turks.

      I’d like to see how this team is playing in 3 weeks once they’ve actually had some practices.

    50. thenamestsam

      I’m surprised people are so down after that game. Sometimes the other team makes a bunch of shots and you lose a game. It happens. Sometimes it even happens for your team (like on Sunday when they shot the lights out in the 4th Q). It doesn’t mean you need to disband the team. There were plenty of positive signs, especially the way the ball was moving for the first ten minutes or so. Let Melo get back his groove and the offense should click nicely.

      That being said, I can’t help worrying about Amare. I was personally subscribing to the theory that his early season struggles were due to the lack of a PG, and that Lin would rejuvenate him, but it just hasn’t happened. I know his brother just died and I feel for the guy, but at some point the most logical explanation for his play this season stops being all the other stuff and starts being the simplest one. He’s done as an impact player. This isn’t a knee-jerk reaction based on last night. It’s based on everything he has done this year. I really hope I’m wrong, and I still might be. There are other great players who are just rounding into form (Dirk for example) after early struggles but watching Amare every night he just doesn’t seem like the same guy. I don’t think you could get much for him, but I certainly think he’s the guy to look to trade, and I do think this team should be trying to make a trade given how overstuffed the rotation is.

    51. Gideon Zaga

      I really don’t care if I’m in the minority, Paula Gasol is simply not better than Carmelo Anthony.

      Caleb:

      Gideon, you’re in the minority here if you think Melo is a better or more valuable player than Gasol.

    52. Caleb

      I know people are gnashing their teeth about FTs but the Knicks are 11th in the league at 75.9%. League average is just under 75, same as the last 25 years.

      Orlando is tearing it up at 65%.

    53. Caleb

      Gideon Zaga:
      I really don’t care if I’m in the minority, Paula Gasol is simply not better than Carmelo Anthony.

      Somehow I’m not convinced! But I will leave it that.

    54. er

      I had a convo at work about melo..and I really thought about it….if you are not gonna let him have free rein to take shots….good shots albeit then u should move on from him….if u think about it he is the only scorer in the league who has everyone monitor every shot he takes…and that is why he’s here to SCore he’s not great at anything else…he’s not a point forward he’s a scoring forward…so the Knicks either let him and lin dominate the offense or trade him

    55. jon abbey

      SebastianPruiti @SebastianPruiti

      In isolations, Iman Shumpert is forcing turnovers 25.5 percent of the time…

    56. Gamecockerbocker

      Am I the only one who thinks the biggest reason we lost last night was because Chandler couldn’t keep himself in the game? We’re just a completely different team defensively when he’s not on the court.

    57. Frank

      Caleb:
      Brian, that’s basically what I’m saying.. Knicks could do 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 and maybe get a real upgrade at SG or PF. Of course depends who is made available. Or, they could move a player or two for a draft pick, rather than be #11 and #12 in the rotation.

      I thought we were done with the crazy fantasy basketball trade chatter? WE ARE NOT TRADING TYSON CHANDLER. WE ARE NOT TRADING CARMELO ANTHONY. NO ONE WILL TAKE AMARE STOUDEMIRE.

      Our starting five for the next 3+ seasons will be Jeremy Lin, Fields or Shumpert, Melo, Amare, and Chandler. Period. We are NOT going to be suiting up Bynum and DH12 next to each other.

      We had one loss to a team that shot 50% on 30 3’s. As ruruland pointed out in the last thread, when you do that, you WIN probably >95% of the time. And still the game was in doubt in the 4th quarter, and if we had had some of the awful calls/non-calls go our way, then maybe we pull it out. Geez.

      I can maybe see some minor trades, but who are you going to trade and for what? Fields might have some value, but given he is Lin’s BFF and that we control his rights going forward, it would have to be a pretty lopsided trade talent-wise to consider that. Everyone else is a rental – Novak, Jefferies, JR, Baron, Walker, etc. are all on 1 year deals. Out of those, only Walker comes with RFA-status for the recipient team. Who is going to give an “upgrade” piece or #1 pick in the deepest draft in years for a bunch of 1-year minimum salary rentals? In other words, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

      Look, I’d love for us to trade a guy or two for some draft picks, but it’s just not realistic. What we need more than anything is roster stability and some practice time to figure out the best way to use all the talent on this roster. JR SMITH DOESN’T EVEN KNOW ANY PLAYS YET.

    58. Caleb

      @66 I mostly agree.. having Chandler half the time, and Shumpert none of the time, is the main reason we lost. Our defense collapsed and we couldn’t stop a terrible Nets team.

    59. hoolahoop

      To make a real run at the title, the knicks really need to be beating under .500 teams to get 6th seed or better. But, this is only one game. Beating the Hawks will be good for the psyche. The Miami game may be a blood bath. LBJ and Wade probably can’t wait to get their hands on Linsanity.

    60. d-mar

      Just a quick note from the NBA last night: that paradigm of team basketball, the Denver Nuggets, the team some Knicks fans wish we had, won last night by resorting to “hero ball” by of all people, Al Harrington, who took almost a third of their shots. Sharing the rock and the ball moving around the perimeter and guys hitting open shots is a beautiful thing, but on some nights it ain’t happening. That’s when we’ll need Melo to (gasp) ISO and see if he can get it going.

    61. Bruno Almeida

      d-mar:
      Just a quick note from the NBA last night: that paradigm of team basketball, the Denver Nuggets, the team some Knicks fans wish we had, won last night by resorting to “hero ball” by of all people, Al Harrington, who took almost a third of their shots. Sharing the rock and the ball moving around the perimeter and guys hitting open shots is a beautiful thing, but on some nights it ain’t happening. That’s when we’ll need Melo to (gasp) ISO and see if he can get it going.

      look, I agree with you that sometimes hero ball is a necessary evil, but that doesn’t justify doing it all the time.

      ball movement and sharing the rock is still the way to go, iso’s should be a last resort at most.

    62. Caleb

      @67 You’re missing the point – we are probably not trading our big salary guys but we have 12 or 13 viable rotation players so there is the opportunity to trade multiple players for a single better player at our weak positions.

      Let’s say, Fields + Harrelson + Douglas for a solid starter. Not crazy.

      Or, get a pick or two. Why wouldn’t you take a 2nd rounder for your 12th man who doesn’t play?

    63. d-mar

      Bruno Almeida: look, I agree with you that sometimes hero ball is a necessary evil, but that doesn’t justify doing it all the time.

      ball movement and sharing the rock is still the way to go, iso’s should be a last resort at most.

      I’m not advocating iso’s all the time, just saying it may be an option on some nights, and we have to live with that.

    64. formido

      This is the second game in the last three where the refs absolutely swallowed their whistles on fouls against Lin. Both times against terrible teams, conveniently not on national TV.

    65. Frank

      d-mar:
      Just a quick note from the NBA last night: that paradigm of team basketball, the Denver Nuggets, the team some Knicks fans wish we had, won last night by resorting to “hero ball” by of all people, Al Harrington, who took almost a third of their shots. Sharing the rock and the ball moving around the perimeter and guys hitting open shots is a beautiful thing, but on some nights it ain’t happening. That’s when we’ll need Melo to (gasp) ISO and see if he can get it going.

      Speaking of Denver (and now that I’ve read that K-Mart interview in SI)- I’m trying to think back on the evolution of Melo’s image in the media, and trying to think whether anyone who didn’t obviously have an agenda has ever said anything bad about him.

      You have George Karl, who acts like Phil Jackson but doesn’t have the 11 or 12 rings to make it ok when he rips his players in the media. It’s nice to have a scapegoat when you don’t win. Oh, and by the way, it’s the coach’s job to get the players to buy in and be happy about it. That’s why you have zero chips and why Phil has 11.

      You have role players like Afflalo and others who passive-aggressively talked about how awesome the team dynamic was when Melo left so that HE could increase his usage to career-high levels with a career low TS (at least since his rookie year).

      and on.

      But if you talk to guys who were reasonably established players – no one had anything bad to say about Melo. K-Mart, Billups, JR, etc. He didn’t mail it in when the crowd was booing him. And now he has to deal with the NY media’s rush to judgment –

      Anyway, just thinking out loud.

    66. jon abbey

      Frank: I thought we were done with the crazy fantasy basketball trade chatter? WE ARE NOT TRADING TYSON CHANDLER. WE ARE NOT TRADING CARMELO ANTHONY. NO ONE WILL TAKE AMARE STOUDEMIRE.

      well, Dwight Howard is going somewhere, and since he’s only willing to sign an extension with a handful of teams, it would be crazy for us not to be in the middle of that if at all possible.

    67. Z-man

      Caleb: @67 You’re missing the point – we are probably not trading our big salary guys but we have 12 or 13 viable rotation players so there is the opportunity to trade multiple players for a single better player at our weak positions. Let’s say, Fields + Harrelson + Douglas for a solid starter. Not crazy. Or, get a pick or two. Why wouldn’t you take a 2nd rounder for your 12th man who doesn’t play?

      These are reasonable to discuss. Trading Melo, Amare or Chandler isn’t at all probable either this year or next. When people start throwing their names around in trade discussions, and Lin’s, it’s just like discussing colonizing the Moon.

    68. Owen

      “In isolations, Iman Shumpert is forcing turnovers 25.5 percent of the time…”

      That is an amazing stat.

      Carmelo can’t touch Gasol imo. We can talk about it when Melo clears .160 WS per 48 in a full year. And re “(seems to be 2nd guy on a championship team.” Being the second best player on a championship team is hardly a bad thing (not that I think he was)

      Denver was playing in the second half without Lawson, Nene, Gallinari, and Fernandez, so I wouldn’t draw any conclusions from the hero ball episode. Amazing win though, especially after a devastating loss the night before. And not to summon THCJ from his slumber but Faried had a pretty tidy outing, 10 points on 5 shots, 14 rebounds, +6, one turnover, 5 blocks and steals…..

    69. Frank

      Caleb:
      @67 You’re missing the point – we are probably not trading our big salary guys but we have 12 or 13 viable rotation players so there is the opportunity to trade multiple players for a single better player at our weak positions.

      Let’s say, Fields + Harrelson + Douglas for a solid starter. Not crazy.

      Or, get a pick or two. Why wouldn’t you take a 2nd rounder for your 12th man who doesn’t play?

      That’s obviously more reasonable – I think I was responding to the crazy trades with Orlando that were so clearly never going to happen.

      Dangerous to trade away young cheap restricted players with talent and bird rights given our cap position going forward though. Depending on who is available, I’d be a little iffy on trading away Fields or Harrellson for an average player that costs 3x as much.

    70. JK47

      This team has got to have the most whiny, entitled fan base ever. Let’s trade away everybody every time we lose.

    71. Brian Cronin

      Just a quick note from the NBA last night: that paradigm of team basketball, the Denver Nuggets, the team some Knicks fans wish we had, won last night by resorting to “hero ball” by of all people, Al Harrington, who took almost a third of their shots. Sharing the rock and the ball moving around the perimeter and guys hitting open shots is a beautiful thing, but on some nights it ain’t happening. That’s when we’ll need Melo to (gasp) ISO and see if he can get it going.

      If the Knicks played like the Nuggets did last night after Andre Miller was ejected (the “hero ball you’re referring to), they’d lose pretty much every game. Denver played terribly in that game once Miller was out and they were relying on Harrington, Afflalo and Brewer to be their scorers (just read that sentence back again – Harrington, Afflalo and Brewer – yikes!). Luckily for them, as incompetent as they were, Minnesota was worse. That game was a battle of who could suck more. To wit, Denver’s third-string point guard (playing only because Lawson was injured and Miller was ejected), got a pass picked off at the end of overtime and Denver up three. Martell Webster was all alone with the ball and decided to go in for a dunk with less than a second left rather than taking a game-tying three.

      If Denver was healthy, that scenario would not have happened (mostly because they would have won the game easily and not needed any “heroics” from Harrington). One good thing about Denver’s injury woes (and there really is little good about their injury woes – losing two of your three best players while you’re in the midst of one of the toughest stretches of the season is not good) is that at least they’re getting a chance to get a look at Kenneth Faried, and he has responded extremely well.

    72. Brian Cronin

      As Jon notes, Orlando almost certainly is trading Howard this season. Los Angeles, meanwhile, sure seems to want to trade Gasol. So when you have two names like that out on the trade market, how can you possibly say “Nah, let’s not even think about getting either of those two guys”? It is not a knock on Amar’e or Melo (and certainly not a knock on Chandler), but if guys like Howard and Gasol are available and you have assets that could get them, how can you not be in on it?

    73. Garson

      2 comments today.

      1. Dont understand why Woodson didnt set the midcourt “lin” doubleteam trap on deron from the opening tip till the end of the game. the team clearly had one player that can beat you and we let him do it.

      2. I am getting sick of hearing the ” we need practice, training camp, gelling time … etc” excuse after we hit a bump or bring in new guys. When they inserted lin last week and played amazing, they didnt need any practice or time to gel. BS excuse , stop is already

    74. er

      They didn’t exactly dominate all of those games or did u forget already

      Garson:
      2 comments today.

      1. Dont understand why Woodson didnt set the midcourt “lin” doubleteam trap on deron from the opening tip till the end of the game. the team clearly had one player that can beat you and we let him do it.

      2. I am getting sick of hearing the ” we need practice, training camp, gelling time … etc” excuse after we hit a bump or bring in new guys. When they inserted lin last week and played amazing, they didnt need any practice or time to gel. BS excuse , stop is already

    75. Ben R

      Kaman is on the block maybe an Amare for Kaman swap. The Hornets get a name to help legitimize themselves we get cap relief to possibly keep Smith. Or an Amare for Okafor trade, both have bad contracts, but we could use the defense from Okafor and they could probably use the offense and star power from Amare. This is not a reaction to the loss I’ve been begging to trade Amare since the end of last season.

      I agree about keeping open to getting true superstars like Howard or Gasol. I don’t think we should look to move Tyson or Melo but when top 10 quality players become available you at least have to listen.

    76. Frank

      JK47:
      This team has got to have the most whiny, entitled fan base ever.Let’s trade away everybody every time we lose.

      +11111111111111

    77. Brian Cronin

      I agree about keeping open to getting true superstars like Howard or Gasol. I don’t think we should look to move Tyson or Melo but when top 10 quality players become available you at least have to listen.

      Exactly. It’s not about dumping guys, it’s about picking up star players who are currently on the trade block. These types of players aren’t available too often and when they get traded, they tend to lead to championships.

    78. ephus

      Ben R:
      Kaman is on the block maybe an Amare for Kaman swap. The Hornets get a name to help legitimize themselves we get cap relief to possibly keep Smith. Or an Amare for Okafor trade, both have bad contracts, but we could use the defense from Okafor and they could probably use the offense and star power from Amare. This is not a reaction to the loss I’ve been begging to trade Amare since the end of last season.

      I agree about keeping open to getting true superstars like Howard or Gasol. I don’t think we should look to move Tyson or Melo but when top 10 quality players become available you at least have to listen.

      Of all the teams that would not take STAT’s contract, the NBA-owned Hornets have to be at the top of the list. We just have to hope that the positive signs from STAT on offense last night (which were mixed in with a lot of negatives) are the begining of him regaining his explosiveness on offense.

    79. Bruno Almeida

      JK47:
      This team has got to have the most whiny, entitled fan base ever.Let’s trade away everybody every time we lose.

      I was saying “trade Amare” when we were on the 7-game winning streak.

    80. d-mar

      Brian Cronin: If the Knicks played like the Nuggets did last night after Andre Miller was ejected (the “hero ball you’re referring to), they’d lose pretty much every game. Denver played terribly in that game once Miller was out and they were relying on Harrington, Afflalo and Brewer to be their scorers (just read that sentence back again – Harrington, Afflalo and Brewer – yikes!). Luckily for them, as incompetent as they were, Minnesota was worse. That game was a battle of who could suck more. To wit, Denver’s third-string point guard (playing only because Lawson was injured and Miller was ejected), got a pass picked off at the end of overtime and Denver up three. Martell Webster was all alone with the ball and decided to go in for a dunk with less than a second left rather than taking a game-tying three.

      If Denver was healthy, that scenario would not have happened (mostly because they would have won the game easily and not needed any “heroics” from Harrington). One good thing about Denver’s injury woes (and there really is little good about their injury woes – losing two of your three best players while you’re in the midst of one of the toughest stretches of the season is not good) is that at least they’re getting a chance to get a look at Kenneth Faried, and he has responded extremely well.

      OK, I’ll admit I just looked at the box score and didn’t realize all the injuries they were dealing with. Maybe D-Will jacking up 3’s with 20 sec. left on the shot clock is a better example. Just saying some nights when the offense isn’t working you may have to rely on a hot hand or the dreaded ISO.

    81. Caleb

      Frank: Depending on who is available, I’d be a little iffy on trading away Fields or Harrellson for an average player that costs 3x as much.

      No reason to argue about that – no point in moving guys to move them.

      But the roster is good enough that it’s not so much about the future. Iif you can bring in an above-average starter, next to Lin, Carmelo and Chandler… and still have a full rotation – then it’s ok to move a few guys whose ceiling is more like a mid-rotation player, a/k/a Fields & Harrelson.

    82. Shad0wF0x

      I’m still convinced that Stoudemire’s back is still hurt one way or another. His posture is just all wrong when you watch him play.

    83. Gamecockerbocker

      Talk about a locker room cancer. “@carmeloanthony: Comin together is the beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success.”

    84. Gamecockerbocker

      Also, if Amare can just get back to shooting 40% on his jumpers, his offensive game won’t look nearly as bad. I don’t know why the hell he fades away coming off screens, but every time he does it I want to throw the remote through my television. He’s a way better shooter when he’s going straight up-and-down… I don’t get why he changes his shooting form from shot to shot. Also, as someone above noted, he does look like his back is still hurting him or at least bothering him to some degree… he stands straight up and dribbles the ball at armpit level when he attacks the rim and I don’t think he would be driving like that if his back was fine.

    85. Brian Cronin

      One thing I don’t get, though, and I wonder if anyone hear has any guesses about it – why haven’t we seen Melo at the 4?

      It’s something that we all thought we would see when the Knicks traded for him, and yet it has not happened at all. Why is that?

      Wouldn’t a Lin/Fields/Smith/Melo/Chandler lineup be pretty impressive? Melo certainly has the body to be a 4.

    86. ephus

      CapB:
      I think they should play Chandler at 5, Melo at 4, Jefferies at the 3 with Smith and Lin.

      The big question with that line up is whether Melo, Smith and Lin would face too many double-teams because teams could ignore Chandler and Jeffries unless they were at the rim.

    87. Bulleya1

      I am blown away at how trigger happy one loss to the nets has made a lot of folks here.
      Some of the trade scenarios being mentioned here are just ridiculous!!
      How about having some faith that this team will turn the corner real soon and begin to gel? This is the best team we’ve had in a LONG time. I dare any one of you die hard knicks fans to deny how exciting these past few weeks have been. All great teams require some time to gel, and this team is no different. Have faith.. The guys are playing hard. They will continue to get better..

    88. rururuland2

      JK47:
      This team has got to have the most whiny, entitled fan base ever.Let’s trade away everybody every time we lose.

      Thanks

    89. Frank

      rururuland2:
      The visceral ignorance of some on this board never ceases to astound me.

      And these are supposedly the enlightened Knick fans! No wonder Isiah and almost every other GM in NYC not named Donnie Walsh thinks you can’t rebuild here.

      We just need to have a little patience. The last time there was a lockout, lots of unanswered questions, and a Knick team that wasn’t playing up to potential – I sort of remember a run to the finals that year.

      I truly feel like we just need to get in to the playoffs with some momentum. 6 seed or better, great. 7-8 seed, oh well. But I can bet you Chicago and Miami do NOT want to face us in round 1. Top to bottom we have more talent than Chicago and at least equal talent to Miami, which is not the usual 1-8 or 2-7 dynamic. We have a bunch of guys who have been there in big playoff games (for better or for worse – at least they’ve been there) – Chandler, Amare, Melo, JR Smith, Baron Davis. It’s not some young upstart team like Memphis was last year. It’ll be a war in round 1 if it’s NYK/CHI or NYK/MIA.

    90. Owen

      “visceral ignorance”?

      Trying hard to figure out what that might be. I guess what you are trying to say is our ignorance is so strong it actually stirs your guts. Strong stuff our ignorance.

      I guess visceral ignorance was what I was feeling during all those years with Isiah running the show.

    91. rururuland2

      Brian Cronin: I

      If Denver was healthy, that scenario would not have happened (mostly because they would have won the game easily and not needed any “heroics” from Harrington). One good thing about Denver’s injury woes (and there really is little good about their injury woes – losing two of your three best players while you’re in the midst of one of the toughest stretches of the season is not good) is that at least they’re getting a chance to get a look at Kenneth Faried, and he has responded extremely well.

      Not buying it.

      Nene is certainly not a top player on the Nuggets sans Melo.

      Gallo puts up efficient numbers (because he avoids many offensive situations at the overall cost to his teammates) and is a good player, but really doesn’t have the impact of a Lawson, Miller, Harrington and on a per minute basis Andersen.

      It’s a 12-deep team that has not regressed so much because of injuries, as the players who’ve replaced the injured players have played as well as the injured players did before; the regression has come from the guys who were carrying them during their early season.

      Harrington was a having a career year early, Miller was playing out of his mind, Lawson and Fernandez were playing much better.

      Brewer has done more than an adequate job replacing Gallo in the starting lineup. Koufous and Faried have outplayed Mosgov.

    92. rururuland2

      Owen:
      “visceral ignorance”?

      Trying hard to figure out what that might be. I guess what you are trying to say is our ignorance is so strong it actually stirs your guts. Strong stuff our ignorance.

      I guess visceral ignorance was what I was feeling during all those years with Isiah running the show.

      viscerally expressed ignorance, if you’d prefer, which I suppose is an upgrade from the kind of ignorance expressed when one is trying to formulate cogent thoughts.

      Thought it’s often hard to distinguish here.

      Nice attempt, grammarian, but visceral modifying ignorance works just fine by any standard, so long as you know there is more than one definition of visceral, which you clearly didn’t.

      Surprise.

    93. Frank

      Hey ruruland – and this is not meant to be passive aggressive – I’ve been on your side re: most of the Melo-bashing and agree with much of what you write– just wondering how you ended up on this site – you obviously followed the Nuggets closely for the last several years – are you a Melo fan that got transported here with him, or an anti-Karl guy? It’s been great (for me at least) to hear more nuanced stuff about the Denver team since Denver and NYK will be linked for the next decade after this trade.

    94. rururuland2

      Frank: And these are supposedly the enlightened Knick fans! No wonder Isiah and almost every other GM in NYC not named Donnie Walsh thinks you can’t rebuild here.

      We just need to have a little patience. The last time there was a lockout, lots of unanswered questions, and a Knick team that wasn’t playing up to potential – I sort of remember a run to the finals that year.

      I truly feel like we just need to get in to the playoffs with some momentum.6 seed or better, great. 7-8 seed, oh well. But I can bet you Chicago and Miami do NOT want to face us in round 1. Top to bottom we have more talent than Chicago and at least equal talent to Miami, which is not the usual 1-8 or 2-7 dynamic.We have a bunch of guys who have been there in big playoff games (for better or for worse – at least they’ve been there) – Chandler, Amare, Melo, JR Smith, Baron Davis. It’s not some young upstart team like Memphis was last year.It’ll be a war in round 1 if it’s NYK/CHI or NYK/MIA.

      All the great signs were there last night.

      Maybe it’s been so long that Knicks fans can’t recognize them.

      There was significantly more offensive potential last night, potential very close to being realized, than there was during any game previous to Melo and JR.

      The narrow-sightedness and disregard for subtext (when looking at the crude quantitative analysis) is just as bad as entitled state of mind you speak of…..

    95. formido

      rururuland2: All the great signs were there last night.

      Indeed. The start of the game was fantastic. That’s the potential of this team. These overreactions are bizarre.

    96. rururuland2

      Frank:
      Hey ruruland – and this is not meant to be passive aggressive – I’ve been on your side re: most of the Melo-bashing and agree with much of what you write– just wondering how you ended up on this site – you obviously followed the Nuggets closely for the last several years – are you a Melo fan that got transported here with him, or an anti-Karl guy? It’s been great (for me at least) to hear more nuanced stuff about the Denver team since Denver and NYK will be linked for the next decade after this trade.

      I was born in Denver, grew up a Nuggets fan through the very worst of seasons.

      Melo, to me, is the homegrown star Knicks fans always talk about having one day (or perhaps will have with lin), the one who came and helped turn everything around, the one you’ve pinned your hopes to, the one you’ve seen get knocked down only to rise back just when you think he couldn’t.

      Melo is an extremely resilient, tough player who I have a great deal of admiration for, as is beyond obvious at this point.

      I’ve mostly separated myself from the Nuggets fanbase because of the sheer hatred they formed for Melo and everyone else who’s left town.

      They are laundry-worshipers of the worst sort. No respect for the great players who did their best there, a total lack of institutional memory.

      To me that’s not fandom at all.

    97. rururuland2

      formido: Indeed. The start of the game was fantastic. That’s the potential of this team. These overreactions are bizarre.

      Right?

      You have to look beyond the end result sometimes. When you look at the different dynamics in play from last night, I think you’d be extremely encouraged.

      Frankly I’d be very surprised if the Knicks don’t put up a monster offensive game tomorrow. I’ll go out on a limb and say it will be one of their 3 most efficient offensive performances of the year.
      They’ll ride that confidence into Miami and it’ll be a great game. If I was a sharp I’d look very favorably against the spread both Wednesday and Thursday,given what was on display Tuesday and how many will misperceive through boxscore reading.

    98. hoolahoop

      SJK:
      @93 I second this. If you watch video of Stat from last year, his 39 point game against Boston for example, he looks like a completely different player. More athletic, quicker, and more reactive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxRkTKlsnLA

      Wow!!!!!!!! That’s not Amare this year.
      He’s got to be hurt. That also explains why he so tentative on defense. He probably hurts when he gets hit.
      He’s also not aggressive like he was last year. That may be another sign he feels his limitations.

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