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Friday, September 19, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Feb 12 2013)

  • [New York Post] Melo sounds off on Shumpert rumors (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 06:00:37 -0500)
    Carmelo Anthony reiterated that it’s nonsense if Knicks general manager Glen Grunwald makes a deal at the Feb. 21 trade deadline.
    “I love this team, I love the chemistry on this team â?? if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it,” Anthony said last night at the Knicks’ charity…

  • [New York Post] Knicks’ J.R. Smith gets bowled over (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 05:28:47 -0500)
    J.R. Smith was having a swell time last night, posing for pictures and flirting with models at the Chelsea Piers Knicks Bowl-a-thon.
    It was a far cry from Sunday, when the Clippers’ Jamal Crawford may have won the Sixth Man of the Year Award in one afternoon, torching Smith…

  • [New York Post] LeBron seizes control of MVP race from Melo (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 03:09:47 -0500)
    They can chant “MVP! MVP!â? from the Garden rafters for however long they want whenever Carmelo Anthony steps to the free-throw line. Maybe Anthony and the Knicks will play well enough after the All-Star break for the chants to be more than just cliché.
    Certainly, there was a time when…

  • [New York Daily News] Chandler stirs pot in Jay Williams weed claim (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:38:17 GMT)
    Tyson Chandler was forced into action Monday night, compelled to play a little defense against a former teammate on what should have been a night off for him.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo: Knicks shouldn’t be in trade talks (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:26:12 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony’s answer on Sunday to questions about a possible trade involving Iman Shumpert could be taken several ways. Anthony obviously is a powerful voice inside the organization and was using the opportunity to throw his weight around with management.

  • [New York Daily News] Raismann: Silent treatment not helping Knicks’ Grunwald (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 03:59:20 GMT)
    There’s a dripping uncertainty at the Garden and Knicks general manager Glen Grunwald needs to tell fans he’s in full control of the faucet.

  • [New York Times] Without Williams, Nets Rally, Beat Pacers in OT (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:21:41 GMT)
    The Brooklyn Nets made it through one game without Deron Williams.

  • [New York Times] Shorthanded Spurs Still Too Much for Bulls (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 06:53:48 GMT)
    The San Antonio Spurs took to the court without three of their top scorers to face Chicago on Monday but still had too much fire power for the Bulls, pulling out a 103-89 victory to pick up their 13th win in 14 games.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Ankle Injuries to Sideline Williams for Two Games (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 05:28:00 GMT)
    The Nets’ Deron Williams will miss the final two games before the All-Star break because of inflammation in both his ankles, the team said Monday.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Without Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, Spurs Beat Bulls (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 05:26:11 GMT)
    Call it a win for the system and the subs. Tony Parker, Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili sat out with injuries as the San Antonio Spurs won handily in Chicago.

  • [New York Times] Short-Handed Spurs Beat Bulls 103-89 (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:39:18 GMT)
    Tim Duncan was dressed in street clothes, with Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili joining him on the bench. San Antonio’s three biggest stars got up occasionally to cheer on their teammates, but that was the extent of their contribution on Monday.

  • [New York Times] Smith Has Double-Double as Hawks Hold of Mavericks (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:27:42 GMT)
    Josh Smith had 26 points and 13 rebounds, Devin Harris made a key steal in the final minute and the Atlanta Hawks beat the Dallas Mavericks 105-101 Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Mullens, Bobcats End Celtics’ Win Streak 94-91 (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:00:49 GMT)
    All in all, Monday proved to be a painful night for the Boston Celtics.

  • [New York Times] Beal Scores 28 as Wizards Beat Bucks 102-90 (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 03:55:04 GMT)
    Rookie Brandon Beal scored a season-high 28 points as the Washington Wizards beat the Milwaukee Bucks 102-90 Monday night, earning a rare road win.

  • [New York Times] Nets 89, Pacers 84, Overtime: With Deron Williams Out, Struggling Nets Win a Big One (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 03:50:53 GMT)
    The Nets, behind Brook Lopez and Reggie Evans, edged the Indiana Pacers in overtime without their star point guard, Deron Williams.

  • [New York Times] Anderson, Lopez Lead Hornets Past Pistons, 105-86 (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 03:19:29 GMT)
    Ryan Anderson scored 31 points, Robin Lopez had 23 points and 10 rebounds, and the New Orleans Hornets beat the Detroit Pistons 105-86 on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] In Contest for Kings, Sacramento Seeks Investors (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 02:47:33 GMT)
    Mayor Kevin Johnson of Sacramento is looking to California billionaires as he prepares a counteroffer for the city’s N.B.A. franchise, which a group from Seattle has offered to buy.

  • [New York Times] Ridnour, Timberwolves End Road Skid, Beat Cavs (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 02:43:07 GMT)
    Luke Ridnour scored 21 points, Ricky Rubio added 13 and 10 assists and the Minnesota Timberwolves snapped an eight-game road losing streak, beating the Cleveland Cavaliers 100-92 on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Paul, Griffin Help Clippers Cruise Past 76ers (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 02:43:04 GMT)
    Chris Paul had 21 points and 11 assists, Blake Griffin scored 20 points and the Los Angeles Clippers cruised to a 107-90 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Steve Novak Is Knicks’ Barometer Off the Bench (Tue, 12 Feb 2013 01:01:08 GMT)
    Steve Novak’s contributions on offense will be key to how the remainder of the season goes for the Knicks.

  • 99 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Feb 12 2013)

    1. Frank

      Crickets here today.

      Anyway, starting to feel strongly that Melo is right about this team – we don’t need a trade. Assuming health (which is a question for every team), there is plenty of offensive firepower and 3 point shooting on this team. There’s inside scoring. There’s depth in the middle. What there isn’t is any kind of cohesiveness on the defensive end – and that comes with practice, health, and effort. I don’t think it’s a huge surprise that our defense has fallen off in concert with all the injuries and people coming and going out of the lineup.

      This team has been a revolving door of players for a long time. Currently we have zero significant pieces on this team that are not signed or restricted in some way going forward for the next 2 seasons other than Rasheed. Even Copeland and Prigs are RFAs after this season. This team just needs some time together to learn tendencies and to build on that familiarity. You can’t do the complicated until the simple becomes second nature.

      So sure, if PHX wants to give us an unprotected 1st + Dudley + Telfair for Shump and whoever, I’d do it. But short of that, I think we are set with this roster.

    2. cgreene

      What about for Marion? That seemed enticing to me for his D at the 3. Just the kind of 2 way player we need.

      Simmons just tweeted Shump/STAT for Dudley/Gortat

    3. Owen

      Wow. No thanks? Seriously? I mean seriously?

      In a second we should do that deal…..

      I mean getting out from under Amare’s contract is a huge win right?

    4. BigBlueAL

      Owen:
      Wow. No thanks? Seriously? I mean seriously?

      In a second we should do that deal…..

      I mean getting out from under Amare’s contract is a huge win right?

      I dont see how that trade would even work. Pretty sure the Suns wold have to add more than just Wesley Johnson as cap filler.

      I dont think Amare and his contract is really that big a deal anymore. This current team will be together for the next 2 seasons and then if they want the Knicks can start completely over since they will only have a couple of players under contract in the summer of 2015 (although Melo opting out a year earlier and the Knicks presumably re-signing him would change that a bit). Amare has shown he still is as efficient a scorer as he has ever been which is a pretty big deal to me. Another 2 years of Amare is nothing compared to another 5 years of Arod lol.

    5. Owen

      I don’t know how it would work.

      But if it did, wouldn’t that give us the flexibility to find another player in free agency this summer? Or are we capped out anyway even with Gortat expiring?

      I agree about ARod. But I still don’t think Amare is worth keeping. He is basically 6 weeks away from being labeled the worst contract in basketball. (ok, bleacher report, but still).

      I think this is the ultimate trade high moment. He is scoring really well, which people care about, and not doing much else. Gortat I don’t think is a huge downgrade. I don’t think with Dudley coming back we would lose much.

      I don’t know, sounds like a great deal to me. I like Amare, but I would be happy for his contract to walk out the door.

    6. flossy

      Owen:
      Wow. No thanks? Seriously? I mean seriously?

      In a second we should do that deal…..

      I mean getting out from under Amare’s contract is a huge win right?

      Yeah, no thanks. Gortat can only play one position, currently occupied by Tyson Chandler, he’s too expensive to be a strictly a back-up and would be a vastly poorer fit than Amar’e between Melo and Chandler. I think Amar’e has several years left as a high-efficiency scorer, and the extra salary we’d have to take back to swing that deal means we wouldn’t even get back under the cap. Besides, what has Gortat done recently that’s so great? His numbers have fallen off a cliff since Nash left.

    7. Brian Cronin

      Barbosa tore his ACL last night and is out for the season.

      The Celtics are just going to keep losing players every other week, I think, until it is just Paul Pierce, KG, Terry, Bradley and Fab Melo left on the team.

    8. BigBlueAL

      Owen:
      I don’t know how it would work.

      But if it did, wouldn’t that give us the flexibility to find another player in free agency this summer? Or are we capped out anyway even with Gortat expiring?

      I agree about ARod. But I still don’t think Amare is worth keeping. He is basically6 weeks away from being labeled the worst contract in basketball. (ok, bleacher report, but still).

      I think this is the ultimate trade high moment. He is scoring really well, which people care about, and not doing much else. Gortat I don’t think is a huge downgrade. I don’t think with Dudley coming back we would lose much.

      I don’t know, sounds like a great deal to me. I like Amare, but I would be happy for his contract to walk out the door.

      Gortat has 1 more year on his contract and Dudley has 3 more (2 plus a player option).

    9. Brian Cronin

      Also, good news for Knicks fans – Derrick Rose says that he is far from being healthy enough to play. He also notes that he will not return until he is 110%, which must be the reason why he is far from returning. He is 100% now and can’t understand why he isn’t getting that extra 10% better. Math fail for the win!

      Seriously, though, it is good for the Knicks that he’s having such a hard time recovering from this thing as you have to imagine that the Bulls are going to be really good once he comes back. A Rose/Hinrich backcourt could be very effective.

    10. Owen

      Vastly poorer fit? They aren’t even playing them together right? How are the three of them fitting together exactly?

      I thought we all agreed last year that Melo, Chandler and Amare can’t play together. Both Melo and Amare are more comfortable playing up. And your defense with Melo at PF and Amare at C is, um, suspect……

      And what extra salary would we have to take back? Gortat is expiring right? And presumably highly motivated.

      I agree Gortat benefitted from Nash, but he is no worse than Amare. And there is upside there too, plus some defense.

      I would be really disappointed if there is a chance to do this deal if we didn’t jump on it.

      We were better without Amare anyway…..

    11. custer

      flossy: Yeah, no thanks.Gortat can only play one position, currently occupied by Tyson Chandler, he’s too expensive to be a strictly a back-up and would be a vastly poorer fit than Amar’e between Melo and Chandler.I think Amar’e has several years left as a high-efficiency scorer, and the extra salary we’d have to take back to swing that deal means we wouldn’t even get back under the cap.Besides, what has Gortat done recently that’s so great?His numbers have fallen off a cliff since Nash left.

      I agree with this, but to play devil’s advocate isn’t amar’e an expensive backup right now? :)

      In all seriousness though I just don’t think that deal gets us any closer to a championship. We shouldn’t be making trades that won’t put us over the top if it means losing the only young talent on our team. Just my two cents.

    12. BigBlueAL

      Yankees Spring Training officially started today and yet I dont really care since right now its all about the Knicks for me. Unlike most I still think the 2013 Yankees can win 95 games as usual and possibly win it all but for the first time since 2000 for me the Yankees dont officially start until the Knicks are eliminated, hopefully no earlier than late-May and preferably not until mid-June.

    13. BigBlueAL

      Owen:
      Vastly poorer fit? They aren’t even playing them together right? How are the three of them fitting together exactly?

      I thought we all agreed last year that Melo, Chandler and Amare can’t play together. Both Melo and Amare are more comfortable playing up. And your defense with Melo at PF and Amare at C is, um, suspect……

      And what extra salary would we have to take back? Gortat is expiring right? And presumably highly motivated.

      I agree Gortat benefitted from Nash, but he is no worse than Amare. And there is upside there too, plus some defense.

      I would be really disappointed if there is a chance to do this deal if we didn’t jump on it.

      We were better without Amare anyway…..

      Dont know if the previous game changed it much but from what Ive read this season the Melo/Amare/Chandler froncourt +/- has been exceptional unlike last season. Their offensive numbers together have been pretty great this season too if Im not mistaken.

    14. Owen

      I mean, maybe it has. It’s interesting to see how fickle people are about these assessments. Last year, we were all certain it didn’t work, as i recall.

      Personally, I am no expert on player fit. i barely believe in it. But depending on Amare to contribute to a title run as a 20 million dollar bench player seems like a bad move.

      And I have to think if it clears any cap room to add a few pieces this summer, we should do it.

      BigBlueAL: Dont know if the previous game changed it much but from what Ive read this season the Melo/Amare/Chandler froncourt +/- has been exceptional unlike last season.Their offensive numbers together have been pretty great this season too if Im not mistaken.

    15. yellowboy90

      I am not for Gortat for Amar’e. But would be for Gortat/Dudley for Camby/Shump/Novak. If they want shump try and take him.

      However, If I remember correctly didn’t Gortat and Howard share the floor in Orl.

    16. flossy

      Owen:
      Vastly poorer fit? They aren’t even playing them together right? How are the three of them fitting together exactly?

      I thought we all agreed last year that Melo, Chandler and Amare can’t play together. Both Melo and Amare are more comfortable playing up. And your defense with Melo at PF and Amare at C is, um, suspect……

      And what extra salary would we have to take back? Gortat is expiring right? And presumably highly motivated.

      I agree Gortat benefitted from Nash, but he is no worse than Amare. And there is upside there too, plus some defense.

      I would be really disappointed if there is a chance to do this deal if we didn’t jump on it.

      We were better without Amare anyway…..

      Is this whole post a joke? Have you watched any games this season since Amar’e returned?

    17. massive

      flossy: Is this whole post a joke?Have you watched any games this season since Amar’e returned?

      I was wondering the same thing. The Knicks have been struggling recently because our bench has been terrible and our wing players not named Carmelo Anthony are inefficient scorers right now. Not because “Melo, Amar’e, and Chandler don’t work together.” There is literally no evidence to support that this season. If you want to argue that Dudley will fix our wing scoring inefficiency, that’s one thing. Butt the frontcourt is not the problem.

    18. flossy

      The Knicks are way over the cap. Gortat and Dudley (neither of whom are expiring combine to make only $11 mil, and the Knicks are sending out $21 in that scenario.

      I think the minimum extra salary the Knicks would have to add is Wes Johnson’s dead weight expiring contract, so when that comes off the books this summer they’ll still be over the cap and unable to use anything but the same exceptions they can use currently.

      As Big Blue Al mentioned, the Melo/Amar’e/Chandler frontcourt has absolutely killed it this year, which I think anyone could have predicted now that it’s a non-lockout season with a regular schedule and the Knicks have are getting respectable PG play and pretty good outside shooting. Amar’e is currently the only player apart from Kevin Durant to have higher than .640 TS% on 24%+ usage and the Knicks have become the best defensive rebounding team in the league since his return.

      Now you want them to ship him out for Gortat, who is entirely redundant with Chandler (but not as good)?

      Why?!

    19. yellowboy90

      watching the 2 unit start the 2nd qtr against the Clips is hilarious. Shump guarding Lamar instead of Novak whose on Barnes. Amar’e rotating on D and losing the ball somehow which lead to a rim run for Lamar. They went on a 10-2 run. I know they went on a run in the 4th too and I am sure I will find that funny as well.

    20. thenamestsam

      massive: There is literally no evidence to support that this season.

      I still think the emphasis should be on the “this season” part of this comment. I agree that there have been some very encouraging signs since Amare came back, but he has played just over 400 minutes total and only a fraction of that is sharing the floor with Melo and Chandler.

      If you were completely sure that having those 3 on the floor at the same time wouldn’t work before these 20 games, as seemed to be close to the consensus, it doesn’t make sense to have completely reversed that based on some small sample +/- numbers.

      Personally I wouldn’t dump Amare, but I do think there’s something to be said for exploring his value right now while it’s as high as it has been in what, over a year? People were calling him the most untradeable contract in the league 6 weeks ago, so if they can get out from under that and get some pieces back it’s something to think about.

    21. yellowboy90

      flossy:
      The Knicks are way over the cap.Gortat and Dudley (neither of whom are expiring combine to make only $11 mil, and the Knicks are sending out $21 in that scenario.

      I think the minimum extra salary the Knicks would have to add is Wes Johnson’s dead weight expiring contract, so when that comes off the books this summer they’ll still be over the cap and unable to use anything but the same exceptions they can use currently.

      As Big Blue Al mentioned, the Melo/Amar’e/Chandler frontcourt has absolutely killed it this year, which I think anyone could have predicted now that it’s a non-lockout season with a regular schedule and the Knicks have are getting respectable PG play and pretty good outside shooting.Amar’e is currently the only player apart from Kevin Durant to have higher than .640 TS% on 24%+ usage and the Knicks have become the best defensive rebounding team in the league since his return.

      Now you want them to ship him out for Gortat, who is entirely redundant with Chandler (but not as good)?

      Why?!

      Just for fun let’s dive in that scenario: Just how far over the cap are the Knicks because the trade saves nearly 6 mill off the bat and then the 4 when Johnson comes off. Then Smith will probably opt out opening up 2 mill.

    22. thenamestsam

      cgreene:
      What about for Marion?That seemed enticing to me for his D at the 3.Just the kind of 2 way player we need.

      Marion would be an amazing fit, but I think that’s true for a lot of teams and playing with it on the trade machine I couldn’t even begin to find something that worked unless you think Shump is enticing enough for Dallas to be willing to take Camby. Given how much cap space they should have this summer there’s no chance they go for that. I think you’d have to bring in a 3rd team who would take Camby and send Dallas an expiring with similar money in his place. But in order to get that 3rd team interested you’d need to send them some sort of decent asset, and the Knicks don’t really have one to give.

    23. Owen

      Well, i will leave it to the capologists. But I think I prefer Dudley and Gortat to Amare and Shump…..

    24. Owen

      And i have to think Gortat at one year and 7 million is pretty tradeable….

      yellowboy90: Just for fun let’s dive in that scenario: Just how far over the cap are the Knicks because the trade saves nearly 6 mill off the bat and then the 4 when Johnson comes off. Then Smith will probably opt out opening up 2 mill.

    25. flossy

      thenamestsam: I still think the emphasis should be on the “this season” part of this comment. I agree that there have been some very encouraging signs since Amare came back, but he has played just over 400 minutes total and only a fraction of that is sharing the floor with Melo and Chandler.

      If you were completely sure that having those 3 on the floor at the same time wouldn’t work before these 20 games, as seemed to be close to the consensus, it doesn’t make sense to have completely reversed that based on some small sample +/- numbers.

      Personally I wouldn’t dump Amare, but I do think there’s something to be said for exploring his value right now while it’s as high as it has been in what, over a year?People were calling him the most untradeable contract in the league 6 weeks ago, so if they can get out from under that and get some pieces back it’s something to think about.

      Why would we assume that the worst year of Amar’e’s career is the new normal, when it was a lockout season with a condensed schedule and lack of training camp? When the Knicks had virtually no viable PG and were incorporating a major new piece into the frontcourt? When Amar’e was recovering from a back injury?

      Why ignore the last 3rd of the season, after Woodson took over, when Amar’e’s FG% shot up by ten percent and Melo/Amar’e/Chandler played well together (and the team was dominant)?

      The last 24 games of last season plus the 19 games Amar’e has played so far this year suggest that the first 2/3 of last year are the anomaly, not his recent success. If “selling high” means trading one of the most dynamic interior scorers in the league for a player who is completely redundant with another one of your core piece, I say no thanks.

    26. yellowboy90

      Owen:
      And i have to think Gortat at one year and 7 million is pretty tradeable….

      probably but I doubt the knicks will trade anyone this year. They’ll do better to trade next year when Camby’s deal turns into an expiring deal since his 3rd year is not guaranteed.

    27. flossy

      yellowboy90: Just for fun let’s dive in that scenario: Just how far over the cap are the Knicks because the trade saves nearly 6 mill off the bat and then the 4 when Johnson comes off. Then Smith will probably opt out opening up 2 mill.

      This year’s cap is $58 million. This year we have $80 million in salary, next year if we replace Amar’e and Shump with Gortat and Dudley and get rid of Johnson we are at $66 million for eight players (I think JR Smith will be re-signed). So correct me if I’m wrong but this trade would accomplish a whole lot of nothing on the cap front while making the team worse. Pass.

    28. Owen

      I mean, Amare hasn’t been great since 08. And his recent play feels like a deadcat bounce. But reasonable minds can disagree….
      .

    29. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Owen:
      I mean, Amare hasn’t been great since 08. And his recent play feels like a deadcat bounce. But reasonable minds can disagree….
      .

      I can’t say with certainty whether the last 40 games are the “true” Amar’e or if it’s the other way around.

      What I can say is that one of the two is much more likely, given his age and injury history.

    30. ruruland

      Owen:
      I mean, Amare hasn’t been great since 08. And his recent play feels like a deadcat bounce. But reasonable minds can disagree….
      .

      LMAO, again, I really want to know who on this board takes you seriously these days. I’m sorry to get personal, but it really seems like you’re trolling.

      We all love your Harden/Nuggz is grat posts though.

      Look, it’s fine to opine that Amar’e is bound to regress, but would it be possible for you to provide some sort of argument? Anything, really. Give it a shot.

      To me, and yes, I was the one person talking about the dramatic improvements in Amar’e’s game resulting from his off-season post work as far back as July, I don’t know how you could watch him play this year, look at the shots he’s able to create for himself, and conclude that his play thus far is smoke and mirrors.

      Especially when we consider that the biggest reason for his efficiency decline post-Melo trade was shot distribution, largely a result of lack of playmaking and penetration, and anomalous jump shooting.

      When some of us, like Flossy and Frank and a few others, broke down his game by shot distribution efficiency, it was evident that by adding the element of penetration it would substantially change his overall efficiency as a result of shot distribution.

      But the efficacy of his post-game further increases the likelihood of Amar’e staying incredibly efficient, sans another injury.

      I have even gone as far to say that Amar’e has a chance to be a more dangerous weapon than at any point in his career because of that post game. He’s taking a higher percentage of shots at the rim than at any point in his career, and he doesn’t need great point guard play to get them. That increases his value substantially.

      It means that as his minutes increase in the coming weeks he’ll have a chance to be the best scoring big man in the NBA.

    31. ruruland

      flossy: This year’s cap is $58 million.This year we have $80 million in salary, next year if we replace Amar’e and Shump with Gortat and Dudley and get rid of Johnson we are at $66 million for eight players (I think JR Smith will be re-signed).So correct me if I’m wrong but this trade would accomplish a whole lot of nothing on the cap front while making the team worse.Pass.

      Agreed.

    32. nicos

      I’m not crazy about a Gortat/Dudley deal. Amar’e and Shumpert both give the Knicks something they really need if healthy- Amar’e gives you a top-tier scorer you can run the offense through when Melo is on the bench and Shump gives you a legit on the ball defender. Now there’s no guarantee Amar’e stays healthy and Shumpert clearly isn’t 100% yet (though the playoffs are still two months away and you hope he can make significant strides by then) but if they’re healthy I think they give you a better shot at legitimately competing for a title than Dudley (do we really need another 3 point shooter- especially as he’s no longer the defender he was a few years ago) and Gortat who’s going to be limited to 10-15 minutes a night backing up Chandler (and I’m sure he’s all that much better in that role than Camby or Sheed if one of them can get healthy). Given the age of the roster and the salary cap issues (which would persist despite the trade) this year is probably the Knicks’ best shot at a title so I wouldn’t make any trade that doesn’t significantly increase their chances to win now.

    33. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I can’t say with certainty whether the last 40 games are the “true” Amar’e or if it’s the other way around.

      What I can say is that one of the two is much more likely, given his age and injury history.

      Well, given that your predictions are (always) always based on a single variable, it leaves you quite vulnerable to being out-done by those who actually provide analysis.

      That’s the biggest reason you have most often been wrong when we make predictions/projections.

      So, I think we all know that on the whole, players production and efficiency decline over age. The fact that you trumpet this as expertise is pretty god damn funny. You and Owen both.

    34. thenamestsam

      flossy: Why would we assume that the worst year of Amar’e’s career is the new normal, when it was a lockout season with a condensed schedule and lack of training camp?When the Knicks had virtually no viable PG and were incorporating a major new piece into the frontcourt?When Amar’e was recovering from a back injury?

      Why ignore the last 3rd of the season, after Woodson took over, when Amar’e’s FG% shot up by ten percent and Melo/Amar’e/Chandler played well together (and the team was dominant)?

      The last 24 games of last season plus the 19 games Amar’e has played so far this year suggest that the first 2/3 of last year are the anomaly, not his recent success.If “selling high” means trading one of the most dynamic interior scorers in the league for a player who is completely redundant with another one of your core piece, I say no thanks.

      Not saying it’s the new normal necessarily, just that people are a little too quick to react to new evidence and disregard old evidence. People see trends in every fluctuation. I’m not saying that Owen is right that they can’t play together, just that I agree with him that a lot of people have been too quick to entirely reverse course on the basis of a few hundred minutes.

      On your last paragraph, I agree with you that getting Gortat doesn’t make much sense to me. My point was a more general one. Amare’s value is almost certainly higher today than it has been at any point in the last 15 months. I think that’s a pretty reasonable time to consider trading somebody.

    35. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ruruland: Well, given that your predictions are (always) always based on a single variable, it leaves you quite vulnerable to being out-done by those who actually provide analysis.

      That’s the biggest reason you have most often been wrong when we make predictions/projections.

      So, I think we all know that on the whole, players production and efficiency decline over age. The fact that you trumpet this as expertise is pretty god damn funny. You and Owen both.

      I predicted the Knicks’ exact record and you dismissed it because I didn’t do it “the right way” or some horseshit.

      Eat me, bro.

    36. Owen

      Yes, exactly.

      Ruru, as always, your posting style is invigorating.

      thenamestsam: Not saying it’s the new normal necessarily, just that people are a little too quick to react to new evidence and disregard old evidence. People see trends in every fluctuation. I’m not saying that Owen is right that they can’t play together, just that I agree with him that a lot of people have been too quick to entirely reverse course on the basis of a few hundred minutes.

      On your last paragraph, I agree with you that getting Gortat doesn’t make much sense to me. My point was a more general one. Amare’s value is almost certainly higher today than it has been at any point in the last 15 months. I think that’s a pretty reasonable time to consider trading somebody.

    37. ruruland

      thenamestsam: Not saying it’s the new normal necessarily, just that people are a little too quick to react to new evidence and disregard old evidence. People see trends in every fluctuation. I’m not saying that Owen is right that they can’t play together, just that I agree with him that a lot of people have been too quick to entirely reverse course on the basis of a few hundred minutes.

      On your last paragraph, I agree with you that getting Gortat doesn’t make much sense to me. My point was a more general one. Amare’s value is almost certainly higher today than it has been at any point in the last 15 months. I think that’s a pretty reasonable time to consider trading somebody.

      The problem is that people have been talking about Melo/Amar’e/Chandler working for a long time as a result of guard play.

      To some of us this is none too surprising. Amar’e was great with Shaq. He was actually quite efficient as a the weakside flasher in the high pick and roll when the Suns ran it with other guys.

      With Melo’s more perimeter oriented attack, there’s literally no reason it shouldn’t work extremely well. In fact, Amar’e is far and away the best cutter in Melo double teams, and when teams start doubling Amar’e, you get Melo and 3 guys in a 4-3. Melo has never had that.

      It’s not that people are disregarding old evidence at all. The old evidence does not support the idea, even with the new evidence in hand, that Amar’e’s game was regressing.

      It was interaction effects and anomalous jump shooting.

    38. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I predicted the Knicks’ exact record and you dismissed it because I didn’t do it “the right way” or some horseshit.

      Eat me, bro.

      Yeah, it’s meaningless when your inputs are completely wrong.

      You had the Knicks winning 36 games because of Landry Fields.

    39. ruruland

      Owen:
      Yes, exactly.

      Ruru, as always, your posting style is invigorating.

      What point have you made?

      I’m on pins and needles for your next copy and paste Harden box score post, and the inevitable, “You guys know that’s good, right?”

    40. Owen

      “With Melo’s more perimeter oriented attack, there’s literally no reason it shouldn’t work extremely well.”

      There is a very good reason. They do exactly the same thing on the court. The both are high usage scorers who don’t pass enough, don’t defend, and need to play out of position to be offensively effective.

      But hey, you know everything. As I always say in these situations, I hope I am wrong.

    41. ruruland

      Owen:
      “With Melo’s more perimeter oriented attack, there’s literally no reason it shouldn’t work extremely well.”

      There is a very good reason. They do exactly the same thing on the court. The both are high usage scorers who don’t pass enough, don’t defend, and need to play out of position to be offensively effective.

      As I always say in these situations, I hope I am wrong.

      I wouldn’t attack you if it wasn’t obvious that you hoped you’re right.

      Once again, you’re just wrong.

      1) Melo has a higher efficiency at small forward than power forward.

      2) Melo and Amar’e score in complementary ways provided guard penetration.

      Yeah, they need to play better defense (and I know Melo will when it comes down to it), but they rebound the hell out of the ball together. Far more benefit when they are on the floor together than not.

    42. thenamestsam

      ruruland: The problem is that people have been talking about Melo/Amar’e/Chandler working for a long time as a result of guard play.

      To some of us this is none too surprising. Amar’e was great with Shaq. He was actually quite efficient as a the weakside flasher in the high pick and roll when the Suns ran it with other guys.

      With Melo’s more perimeter oriented attack, there’s literally no reason it shouldn’t work extremely well. In fact, Amar’e is far and away the best cutter in Melo double teams, and when teams start doubling Amar’e, you get Melo and 3 guys in a 4-3. Melo has never had that.

      It’s not that people are disregarding old evidence at all. The old evidence does not support the idea, even with the new evidence in hand, that Amar’e’s game was regressing.

      It was interaction effects and anomalous jump shooting.

      I recognize that you were expecting it to work out fine and certainly so far it looks like you were right. I’m certainly not saying that the new evidence should be ignored. Like all evidence it should be weighed and incorporated with our prior expectations to form new expectations. I’m certainly more bullish on the Amare-Melo-Tyson combination that I was 3 months ago and I was certainly more bullish than some 3 months ago.

      If your attitude has gone from “Melo-Amare-Tyson can probably work with the right PG play” to “Melo-Amare-Tyson can definitely work with the right PG play” that’s a reasonable response to what we’ve seen so far to me. If your attitude has gone from “Melo-Amare-Tyson can never work” to “Melo-Amare-Tyson might work” that’s a reasonable response to what we’ve seen so far to me. But it seems to me that a lot of people have gone from “Melo-Amare-Tyson can never work” to “Melo-Amare-Tyson can definitely work with the right PG play”. To me that’s a huge overreaction to the new data.

    43. thenamestsam

      ruruland: I wouldn’t attack you if it wasn’t obvious that you hoped you’re right.

      If you’re not even going to take the things that someone posts at face value I can’t imagine what the point of responding to their posts would be.

    44. ruruland

      To me that’s a huge overreaction to the new data.

      I understand what you’re saying. However, one needs to make an argument as to why, in the first place, they thought the trio could never work.

      Those arguments exist and we’ve discussed them thoroughly on this board. When we re-examine those arguments we should be fairly convinced last year was an anomaly.

      1)The +/- from last year are skewed by Amar’e’s absence with Lin in the lineup last year.

      Historically, there is virtually no variation in Amar’e’s +/- with another big man on the floor. There is a discernible dip/variation, however, when we look at Amar’e’s +/- with and without a penetrating point guard.

      Amar’e does not have to function as the middle screen and roller to be very efficient and productive. That’s simply a historical fact.

      When we factor in Amar’e’s new post-game, and consider that Chandler doesn’t have one and certainly doesn’t need one to be effective, it should make one even more confident that we’ve seen so far is, roughly what we should see moving forward.

    45. Owen

      Ruruland, message board gladiator from the West….

      It’s really hard to know what to say other than what I said previously. Amare and Melo are very duplicative players. They do basically the same thing on the court. Shoot a lot, pass very little, and let others do the defending. Amare is also injury prone and a seriously bad bet to stay healthy across the next two years of his contract.

      Having spent ten years watching the Knicks run rosters of one dimensional scorers out there expecting synergistic offensive magic to happen, you’ll just have to excuse my skepticism about whether this time, finally, at long last, is different.

      “I wouldn’t attack you if it wasn’t obvious that you hoped you’re right.

      Once again, you’re just wrong.”

    46. Brian Cronin

      I was a bit taken aback by the Raptors destroying the Nuggets in the first quarter until I saw that Iggy and Gallo are both out, so, yeah, that makes a lot more sense.

    47. KnickfaninNJ

      I am opposed to the trade like many of today’s contributors, but for a different reason. When I look at the most basic of statistics, the game scores, it’s clear that when we lose mostly it’s because we don’t score enough, not because of lousy defense or elite point guards torching us. There are just very few points scored by the Knicks in those games. I know this isn’t what ABC kept saying on Sunday, but it’s more supported by data than their statements. And watching the games I get the same impression, lots of missed shots and a clumsy looking offensive team that’s not moving the ball enough. If the Knicks are short on offense it’s crazy to trade get Gortat instead of Stoudemire.

    48. Brian Cronin

      Such a weird decision by his agent for Randolph to go to Denver. He’d have been better off taking less money to play a year for a shitty team that would actually play him. It is crazy. When he actually plays, he plays well. But he ends up on teams with coaches who do not fit his style at all. Nelson, D’Antoni, Adelman and Karl. Are there four coaches in the NBA more stubborn than that quartet?

    49. Juany8

      I was never all that high on the Melo-Amar’e-Chandler trio this year and I still don’t know if thats the lineup I want the Knicks finishing games with if it means sitting either JR Smith or Jason Kidd (guys who I’m hoping are just dealing with a slump/minor injuries right now) The problem with the trade is that Gortat would essentially just be taking Amare’s current minutes, with no possibility of getting to 30+. You would still need another backup big man, and you would need some other way to generate offense when Melo is sitting, since I’m pretty sure nobody really wants Felton and JR running the offense as the primary option for extended minutes.

      Amare’s current post play is extremely encouraging, and as Ruru often mentioned he does a great job of cutting in at opportune times. He’s also screening well and boxing out properly, two things which I used to hate about him that are less likely to go away with increased defensive attention. Melo has also been awesome from 3 this year and he’s been far more willing to spot up, two traits that help the trio work better than what might have been expected. If the deal was bringing back Gortat and a legit backup point guard then it would be intriguing. As it stands though it really doesn’t help the Knicks much unless Amar’e gets injured

    50. flossy

      Brian Cronin:
      Such a weird decision by his agent for Randolph to go to Denver. He’d have been better off taking less money to play a year for a shitty team that would actually play him. It is crazy. When he actually plays, he plays well. But he ends up on teams with coaches who do not fit his style at all. Nelson, D’Antoni, Adelman and Karl. Are there four coaches in the NBA more stubborn than that quartet?

      What is his style, though? Spastic? Is there any coach in the league who’s like “Hey, you 6’11″ pogo stick! Get out here on the perimeter and try throwing a behind the back pass or two!”

    51. BigBlueAL

      “Having spent ten years watching the Knicks run rosters of one dimensional scorers out there expecting synergistic offensive magic to happen, you’ll just have to excuse my skepticism about whether this time, finally, at long last, is different. ”

      Its not fair to compare this team with Melo/Amare to teams featuring Crawford, Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph, Nate Robinson, Steve Francis and Marbury (although in fairness to Marbury he did have a couple of really good seasons as a Knick). This team is setup to allow Melo/Amare to score because they are surrounded by players who compliment them and can do things besides score inefficiently. Also nobody from the above mentioned group had a season anywhere near as good as what Melo is having now or have ever been anywhere near as efficient as Amare has been throughout his entire career.

    52. jon abbey

      flossy: Must be one of them false memories, Professor.Amar’e isn’t repped by CAA.

      the whole franchise is esssentially run by CAA, though.

    53. flossy

      jon abbey: the whole franchise is esssentially run by CAA, though.

      I very much doubt CAA would go to much trouble to prevent the front office from trading Amar’e if the team got what it felt like was a good offer. Certainly they don’t have anyone promoting Amar’e on Knicks message boards, since that was Jowles is implying.

    54. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      flossy: Must be one of them false memories, Professor.Amar’e isn’t repped by CAA.

      I don’t give a fuck if that paper co-author is your live-in partner — you do not understand the implications of that paper’s conclusion.

    55. Brian Cronin

      What is his style, though? Spastic? Is there any coach in the league who’s like “Hey, you 6’11? pogo stick! Get out here on the perimeter and try throwing a behind the back pass or two!”

      His style is a very athletic tall player who can be active in the post when given a chance. Since he is dumb enough to think he should be a perimeter player, he has coaches write him off because they don’t like having to force him to do something that he should logically want to do on his own. However, when they do play him as a post player, he’s really good at it. Just look at last season when the Wolves were missing Love. Randolph as a four is a good player. Randolph as a three is terrible. He wants to be a three but he needs a coach who insists he play the four. Nellie did for awhile in Golden State and he played well. Since then his coaches have basically written him off. And that’s fair enough, as I really don’t blame coaches for not wanting to put up with a guy with delusions like Randolph, but I dunno why his agent would send him to a place with a coach who obviously was not going to like him.

      Due to the short roster, he got some burn tonight as a four/five and he played well.

    56. ess-dog

      Hawks get:
      Gortat
      Wes Johnson
      Mayo
      Crowder
      Dal 1st

      NYKs get:
      Marion
      Kaman
      Dudley

      Mavs get:
      Josh Smith
      Novak

      Suns get:
      Stoudemire
      Shumpert

    57. yellowboy90

      ess-dog:
      Hawks get:
      Gortat
      Wes Johnson
      Mayo
      Crowder
      Dal 1st

      NYKs get:
      Marion
      Kaman
      Dudley

      Mavs get:
      Josh Smith
      Novak

      Suns get:
      Stoudemire
      Shumpert

      If the Knicks are giving up STAT/Shump/ and Novak they need to get Mayo too.

      I don’t see the Knicks making a trade this year unless it’s moving Novak for Wilson Chandler or Dunleavy. Something minor

    58. ruruland

      yellowboy90: If the Knicks are giving up STAT/Shump/ and Novak they need to get Mayo too.

      I don’t see the Knicks making a trade this year unless it’s moving Novak for Wilson Chandler or Dunleavy. Something minor

      Dunleavy would be an absolute steal. So much better than Novak. Not a big Chandler fan, but he’s a pretty decent defender at times.

    59. DRed

      ruruland: Huh?

      Owen liked (loved deeply, really, but I think he’s married now and I don’t want to cause him any trouble on the domestic front) a player named David Lee, who used to play for the Knicks and now plays for Golden State. It was before your time, so I’ll forgive you for not knowing that. Last year, there was a guy named Jeremy Lin who had a good run for the Knicks. He now plays for the Rockets. Your binky was out hurt during most of his run, so perhaps you don’t remeber that either. I’m not sure why Owen called it an Olympics, but I think what he’s saying is that it is a contest featuring two players that could still be Knicks but now are playing for different teams.

    60. BigBlueAL

      I get still watching and rooting for old Knicks like Lee and Lin but honestly do people still truly wish they were still here that badly?? Lee the past 2 seasons was nowhere near the player he was as a Knick and even this season he isnt close to being as good as he was a few years ago. Lin has been discussed at length and he obviously has age at his side but he too hasnt exactly been setting the NBA on fire this season and in reality hasnt improved one bit from last season. Same thing with Gallo who I personally liked alot and miss much more than I do Lee and Lin but even he hasnt exactly taken the next step to stardom since being traded away.

      I would understand feeling nostalgic for them if the current Knicks team was still a 6/7 seed like they were the past 2 seasons but thankfully that isnt the case, they are the 2 seed in the East and its looking like it is pretty likely thats where they will wind up and deservedly so. Also for as much as teams like Denver, Houston and Golden St are talked about around here because of the former Knicks on them the current Knicks have better records than all of those teams and are in a much better position to make a pretty long playoff run compared to those teams.

    61. jon abbey

      Lee’s defense is still terrible, I don’t miss him or Lin one bit. and I loved Lee like 90 percent as much as Owen when he was here.

    62. Will the Thrill

      Lee or Amar’e? Pshhhhhhhhhhhh

      jon abbey:
      Lee’s defense is still terrible, I don’t miss him or Lin one bit. and I loved Lee like 90 percent as much as Owen when he was here.

    63. njasdjdh

      In 278 minutes where he’s played with Harden on the bench Lin is averaging 18.3 PTS 8.8 AST per 36 on 48% overall and 48% from 3. The sample size is obviously small, but the biggest issue Lin has faced in HOU is roster fit. However, in his last 41 games (excluding tonight’s) he is shooting I believe 47% from the field and 35% from 3 so after a rough start things are picking up.

    64. lavor postell

      Yeah I’m kind of on the same boat. I loved Lee when he was a Knick but I don’t really miss having him on the team. The more I watch Lin, the more convinced I am that he is in a much better situation for himself in Houston than he would have been here in New York with immediate championship expectations. Gallo’s really the only guy we’ve drafted in the last decade that I would say I genuinely wished had remained a Knick, but obviously when you land Melo that eases the pain a bit.

      Also just on the subject of trades. I think the prudent move is to do nothing to the roster as it currently stands. The team is deep when healthy and has the ability to matchup with any kind of lineup an opponent can throw out there. Kidd just looks gassed right now and he’s clearly not confident in his jumper at all right now. He needs this All-Star break desperately.

      Somebody find JR’s offensive game and bring it back to him. He really has been miserable after an awesome start to the season. He needs to be a factor if we hope to compete with the elite teams.

    65. Will the Thrill

      Does anyone know if we get to keep our first round draft pick this year? (even if it will probably be in the high 20s)

    66. Grandmama

      http://www.82games.com/1213/1213NYK2.HTM

      The lineups with Melo, Chandler and Amar’e on the floor together have been extremely productive.

      While I agree that the 2 are largely “duplicate” in that each needs shots to provide value, this team actually can use that considering we have a number of low-volume shooters (Kidd, Chandler, Shumpert, Brewer) who do the little things. Having another scorer is necessary because all-Melo-all-the-time is going to be easy pickings in the playoffs for a good defensive team.

      It works a lot better this year, IMO, because we A. Have a point guard that can maximize Amar’e strengths, B. Melo can stretch the floor from three and C. Amar’e is in shape and simply a better player than he was a year ago at this time.

    67. Brian Cronin

      Does anyone know if we get to keep our first round draft pick this year? (even if it will probably be in the high 20s)

      In the next four drafts, the Knicks will have their own first rounder in the upcoming draft, their own first rounder in 2015 and hopefully their own first rounder in 2016 (Denver has the right to swap first rounders in 2016. Hopefully the Nuggets pick will be worse than the Knicks’ pick). The Knicks next have a second rounder in 2017, although I bet that they’ll end up trading that pick, too, now that it is eligible to be dealt.

    68. Brian Cronin

      Do note that there’s an infinitesimal chance at the Knicks owning the second round pick of the Kings (or whatever they’re called in 2014 when they’re likely playing in Seattle. I hope they keep the name “Kings,” it is too confusing to call them the Sonics when the Thunder will own the Sonics’ history). The Knicks will get it if the Kings end up with one of the top five records in the NBA in the 2013-14 season. So, yeah, not likely.

    69. Will the Thrill

      Thank you, feels so weird to have first round draft picks!!!

      Brian Cronin: In the next four drafts, the Knicks will have their own first rounder in the upcoming draft, their own first rounder in 2015 and hopefully their own first rounder in 2016 (Denver has the right to swap first rounders in 2016. Hopefully the Nuggets pick will be worse than the Knicks’ pick). The Knicks next have a second rounder in 2017, although I bet that they’ll end up trading that pick, too, now that it is eligible to be dealt.

    70. knicknyk

      BigBlueAL:
      I get still watching and rooting for old Knicks like Lee and Lin but honestly do people still truly wish they were still here that badly??Lee the past 2 seasons was nowhere near the player he was as a Knick and even this season he isnt close to being as good as he was a few years ago.Lin has been discussed at length and he obviously has age at his side but he too hasnt exactly been setting the NBA on fire this season and in reality hasnt improved one bit from last season.Same thing with Gallo who I personally liked alot and miss much more than I do Lee and Lin but even he hasnt exactly taken the next step to stardom since being traded away.

      I would understand feeling nostalgic for them if the current Knicks team was still a 6/7 seed like they were the past 2 seasons but thankfully that isnt the case, they are the 2 seed in the East and its looking like it is pretty likely thats where they will wind up and deservedly so.Also for as much as teams like Denver, Houston and Golden St are talked about around here because of the former Knicks on them the current Knicks have better records than all of those teams and are in a much better position to make a pretty long playoff run compared to those teams.

      Yes i still miss both of them (doesn’t mean I am not pleased with how the Knicks have performed thus far). Lee’s D is terrible but I would take him over Amare & Lin over Felton. And negative on the Lin hasn’t improved one bit.

    71. BigBlueAL

      knicknyk: Yes i still miss both of them (doesn’t mean I am not pleased with how the Knicks have performed thus far). Lee’s D is terrible but I would take him over Amare & Lin over Felton. And negative on the Lin hasn’t improved one bit.

      What has Lin improved in?? His 3pt% is the same as least season, his overall FG% is lower as is his FT%. Per 36 mins he is rebounding less and is averaging less assists. He still gets steals as the same rate which is a good thing because he was excellent in that aspect last season. He has cut his turnovers down a bit which is a positive.

      Look at his advanced stats, lower TS% than last season and his WS/48 is .5 lower than last season (1.40 to .90). His PER is 5 pts lower this season too. Im not saying those stats are more important than others and I have no clue what his WP/48 or whatever WoW uses is cause all I do is look at BBR so these are the stats I look at but again where is the improvement??

      Also please dont use Harden as an excuse. So Lin couldnt play well with Melo on the floor with him and now he cant play well with Harden too. Isnt that kind of a problem?? Also give me a healthy Amar’e any day of the week over Lee. Lee is still terrible defensively and he isnt even an efficient scorer anymore. He does remain a great passer though, thats one thing I still enjoy watching Lee do.

    72. nicos

      I get rooting for those guys though Gallo combined two of my least favorite things on earth- fauxhawks and flopping- so he was never a personal favorite of mine. And as far as Lee vs. Amar’e goes- the whole reason they got rid of Lee was so they’d have a better shot at LBJ (and I’d do that again in a heartbeat as even if you only have a 10% chance of getting LeBron you have to take that shot). Personally I find Amar’e an easier guy to root for than any of those past guys. He had a pretty rough childhood- mother in and out of jail, attended six different high schools- and rehabbed back from two potentially career ending injuries. He seems like a genuinely likable, if a little weird, guy who done a lot of work in the community, signs autographs for hours, has a ton of interests outside of basketball, etc… I get that he’s a shitty defensive player and the two freak playoff injuries didn’t help but I get the feeling that there are a fair number of people on the board who’d like the Knicks to win but would prefer that Amar’e (and certainly Melo) had nothing to do with it which I don’t get at all.

    73. BigBlueAL

      David Lee was very easy to root for, a late-1st round pick who improved every season and made himself into an All-Star. He played on some horrible teams where the majority of the players were hard to root for but he always stood out as someone who you liked to watch play because he always looked like he cared unlike most of his teammates and I was happy for him that he was able to get the contract he got from the Warriors because he deserved it.

      But again he is someone whose numbers have declined virtually across the board since he left here (alot of that has to do with no longer playing in a D’Antoni offense). He is just 1 year younger than Amare so unlike Gallo and certainly Lin youth is no longer on his side. Personally I just think its nice no longer having any players left from the Isiah era so we could try to completely forget those years lol.

    74. Brian Cronin

      I don’t like the false dichotomy of “wishing they had kept Player X” versus “being happy with the current team.”

      I agree that it is silly to constantly rehash stuff like “we should have re-signed Lin,” but I sure as heck don’t think there’s anything wrong with the general idea of taking issue with some of the Knicks’ past decisions, even if you’re quite pleased with the team as it currently stands. If you think the team is good but could have been better, nothing wrong with that.

      Just so long as you don’t bring it up all the time, of course. That’s just annoying.

    75. Brian Cronin

      By the way, last night’s Toronto victory should hopefully mean that they’re not going to play as hard tonight against the Knicks. They got their big underdog victory. They can lay down tonight.

    76. BigBlueAL

      I dunno, I guess Im just someone who just blindly roots for my team (Yankees/Knicks) and whoever plays for them. Once a player leaves I no longer care how they do and certainly dont root for them to do too well and make the Knicks regret getting rid of them.

      Its just that for the past couple of years despite the team being better than they were for a decade you still had alot of people here complaining and playing the what-if game which was understandable since the Knicks werent title contenders yet. But finally this season the standings certainly say they are (blowing out the Heat twice so far helps too lol) yet some people still cant help but bring up whenever those certain teams with some ex-Knicks do well. Its almost as if the Knicks can win it all this season yet they will still say well if they still had so and so they would have a better chance of repeating next season, its as if the current Knicks are in a cant win situation with them.

      I just cant fathom being a fan of my team that way.

    77. Brian Cronin

      I dunno, I guess Im just someone who just blindly roots for my team (Yankees/Knicks) and whoever plays for them. Once a player leaves I no longer care how they do and certainly dont root for them to do too well and make the Knicks regret getting rid of them.

      Which is fine. I have no problem with that approach. I just don’t think someone taking a different approach means that they’re being a worse fan.

    78. flossy

      nicos: I get the feeling that there are a fair number of people on the board who’d like the Knicks to win but would prefer that Amar’e (and certainly Melo) had nothing to do with it which I don’t get at all.

      This is a great point. Obviously true, but rarely stated. ‘

      I’ve loved Amar’e from the beginning (or even before–loved him when he was in Phoenix too), but I haaaaated Melo and hated the trade and missed Gallo and Chandler a lot. Last season did little to change my feelings as Melo showed up fat and got injured a lot and then blatantly phoned it in until he won his little war of attrition with D’Antoni.

      But this season he has definitely won me over. I don’t honestly see how any Knicks fan could watch the games this season and not appreciate his (imperfect, but awesome) game and what he’s doing out there, not just for his own stat line but as the engine that makes this team run.

      Slowly changing my mind about Melo has opened my mind up a bit and I honestly think it’s given me a more nuanced understanding of the game. But there are a lot of people here and elsewhere who are not open to having their minds changed and would rather be right and miserable than enjoy themselves if it means being wrong. It’s too bad, really.

      Still miss Gallo though.

    79. Frank

      BigBlueAL: I dunno, I guess Im just someone who just blindly roots for my team (Yankees/Knicks) and whoever plays for them. Once a player leaves I no longer care how they do and certainly dont root for them to do too well and make the Knicks regret getting rid of them.

      Yeah surprisingly I’ve sort of lost interest in Jeremy Lin – I do check his box scores every now and again but it’s really not the same now.
      And I have to admit part of me was kinda rooting against him earlier in the year so that Grunwald et al were proven right. As it is, I think it’s been a win-win-win situation for the Knicks, Rockets, and Lin –

      I basically haven’t thought about Lee and/or Gallo since they left. They only time they enter my thoughts is when we have slapfights over their greatness here.

      Meanwhile, I’ve started trying to listen to podcasts from ESPN Radio on the way to work – and it’s amazing the straw men that the hosts are beating down re: the Shumpert trade. No one in the whole wide world thinks a Shump for Dudley trade is a good trade. Dudley might help this year slightly more than Shump will (until he really gets healthy), and certainly would be able to give us more meaningful minutes from a 2-way perspective than Novak/Brewer/Cope. The real question was always – what if they offer a lottery pick? That’s a much harder trade offer to turn down.

      Anyway, sounds like Woodson batted down these trade rumors yesterday on Michael Kay – I think it’s likely we have the team we’re going to have going into April/May unless both Wallace and Camby suffer more setbacks.

    80. Frank

      lol never mind. Now twitter says this:

      @DarrenWolfson: I’m sure Kahn is talking trade w/ lots of teams, but one for sure according to two league people: the #Knicks. Not sure of any particulars.

      and goes on to talk about maybe Ronnie Brewer? can’t imagine why. Looking at the trade machine, they only thing that seems plausible would be to trade for a guy like Malcolm Lee, who looks just like a younger version of Brewer (can’t shoot, good D). And maybe Minny wants Brewer because of his veteran leadership? Adelman likes his off-ball movement? I have no idea. There are obviously guys that we would want on the T-Wolves like Shved, Stiemsma, Budinger, etc. but I can’t imagine that any of those guys are worth trading Shump for, and we don’t have much else to offer.

    81. flossy

      Frank:
      lol never mind. Now twitter says this:

      @DarrenWolfson: I’m sure Kahn is talking trade w/ lots of teams, but one for sure according to two league people: the #Knicks. Not sure of any particulars.

      and goes on to talk about maybe Ronnie Brewer? can’t imagine why. Looking at the trade machine, they only thing that seems plausible would be to trade for a guy like Malcolm Lee, who looks just like a younger version of Brewer (can’t shoot, good D). And maybe Minny wants Brewer because of his veteran leadership? Adelman likes his off-ball movement? I have no idea.There are obviously guys that we would want on the T-Wolves like Shved, Stiemsma, Budinger, etc. but I can’t imagine that any of those guys are worth trading Shump for, and we don’t have much else to offer.

      Maybe we’re trying to add JJ Barea in our ongoing quest to graft the 2011 Mavericks onto the mid-2000s Nuggets?

    82. Grandmama

      flossy: Maybe we’re trying to add JJ Barea in our ongoing quest to graft the 2011 Mavericks onto the mid-2000s Nuggets?

      You probably nailed it, actually. Knicks went after Barea before last season and the Wolves have a logjam at PG now with Rubio back.

    83. JC Knickfan

      Ahh Lee and Lin former Knicks that enchanted hearts of some fans. Knicks are the #2 seed pass the halfway, so it’s just too hard bitch moan about current results.

      That said Lee miss 1 game so far and Lin has miss zero games. Injuries one thing about this season that been hard for me to watch. Felton missed 14 games and Amare had missed 32. That got to be biggest plus that former Knicks player have over the current incumbents.

      It would be so nice to have player rotation stability.

    84. JC Knickfan

      flossy: Maybe we’re trying to add JJ Barea in our ongoing quest to graft the 2011 Mavericks onto the mid-2000s Nuggets?

      What’s your trade suggestion?

    85. yellowboy90

      flossy: Maybe we’re trying to add JJ Barea in our ongoing quest to graft the 2011 Mavericks onto the mid-2000s Nuggets?

      Maybe luke Ridnour. Who would you(anyone) take.

    86. jon abbey

      flossy: Maybe we’re trying to add JJ Barea in our ongoing quest to graft the 2011 Mavericks onto the mid-2000s Nuggets?

      heh, this is a good one-liner. trade for Barea, pick up Kenyon Martin, and we’re two guys closer!! :)

    87. flossy

      yellowboy90: Maybe luke Ridnour. Who would you(anyone) take.

      I guess I’d prefer Barea to Ridnour? Ridnour brings nothing to the table that Jason Kidd can’t already do. Barea is great at breaking down defenses and getting into the lane, which no PG on our roster besides Felton can do, and he can score or pass on the PnR. He’s a defensive liability, but so are all of our PGs already.

      I’d consider Prigioni and Brewer/Copeland/White for Barea. Clears them some cap and we don’t lose anyone crucial. They probably want Novak though.

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