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Tuesday, July 22, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Feb 07 2012)

  • [New York Daily News] Lin points Knicks in right direction (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:33:26 GMT)
    Some of the Giants players, still running on fumes after beating the Patriots at Indy in Super Bowl XLVI on Sunday night, were at the Garden to watch the Knicks play Utah on Monday night.

  • [New York Daily News] Amar’e Stoudemire’s brother killed in crash (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:47:25 GMT)
    Knicks star Amar’e Stoudemire rushed home to Florida on Monday after his troubled older brother was killed in a car accident.

  • [New York Daily News] Champion Giants hold court at Garden (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:36:18 GMT)
    It turned out to be a great evening for the Knicks, but for the fans and six special guests, Monday night was already Super.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks keep on Lin-ing, beat Jazz (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:23:57 GMT)
    No Carmelo Anthony, No Amar’e Stoudemireâ? No problem. The Knicks won their second straight game at the Garden behind Jeremy Lin Monday night, 99-88 over the Jazz.

  • [New York Times] Knicks 99, Jazz 88: Jeremy Lin Scores 28 as Knicks Beat Utah Jazz (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:24:11 GMT)
    An electric Jeremy Lin scored 28 points, a career high for a second straight game, to lead the Knicks over the Jazz.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Lakers’ Bryant Passes O’Neal for Fifth Place on Career Scoring List in Loss to 76ers (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:39:08 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant passed former teammate Shaquille O’Neal to move into fifth place on the N.B.A.’s career scoring list in a loss to the Philadelphia 76ers.

  • [New York Times] Clippers’ Billups Goes Down With Achilles Injury, Anthony Hurt (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:29:07 GMT)
    Los Angeles Clippers guard Chauncey Billups was helped off the court after injuring his left Achilles during his team’s overtime victory over the Orlando Magic on Monday.

  • [New York Times] NBA-Best Thunder Beat Blazers 111-107 in OT (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:21:33 GMT)
    Kevin Durant had 33 points, including a dunk with 2.9 seconds left in overtime, and the Oklahoma City Thunder defeated the Portland Trail Blazers 111-107 on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] 76ers Spoil Kobe Milestone With Win Over Lakers (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 05:01:33 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant moved past Shaquille O’Neal to become the NBA’s fifth highest scorer Monday but it was a bitter-sweet moment for the Los Angeles guard as the Lakers lost 95-90 to the Philadelphia 76ers.

  • [New York Times] Scola Leads Rockets Past Hurting Nuggets 99-90 (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:48:29 GMT)
    Luis Scola scored 25 points and the Houston Rockets handed the injury-riddled Denver Nuggets their third straight loss, 99-90 on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Parker, Duncan Lead Spurs Past Grizzlies 89-84 (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:57:58 GMT)
    Tony Parker scored 21 points, and Tim Duncan added 19 points and 17 rebounds to lead the San Antonio Spurs to an 89-84 victory over the Memphis Grizzlies on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Cousins Leads Kings Back Against Hornets, 100-92 (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 05:03:38 GMT)
    After digging themselves a hole 18 points deep with poor shooting and porous defense, DeMarcus Cousins and the Sacramento Kings avoided the temptation to bicker with one another. Coach Keith Smart hoped it was a sign of a young team maturing and pulling together.

  • [New York Times] 76ers Spoil Kobe Milestone With Win Over Lakers (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:34:55 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant moved past Shaquille O’Neal to become the NBA’s fifth highest scorer on Monday but it was a bitter-sweet moment for the Los Angeles guard as the Lakers lost 95-90 to the Philadelphia 76ers.

  • [New York Times] Wall, Young Help Wizards Beat Raptors 111-108 (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:21:37 GMT)
    John Wall scored 31 points, Nick Young had a season-high 29 and Trevor Booker added a season-high 19 as the Washington Wizards blew an 18-point third-quarter lead then hung on to beat the Toronto Raptors 111-108 in overtime on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Boozer Scores 24 Points, Bulls Beat Nets 108-87 (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:03:57 GMT)
    Carlos Boozer scored 24 points and the Chicago Bulls beat the New Jersey Nets 108-87 Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Lin Scores 28, Carries Short-Handed Knicks Again (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:15:40 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin scored a career-high 28 points in his first career start, Steve Novak added a season-best 19, and the New York Knicks overcame the absence of Amare Stoudemire and early loss of Carmelo Anthony to beat the Utah Jazz 99-88 on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Paul Leads Clippers Past Magic in OT, 107-102 (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:27:33 GMT)
    Chris Paul scored 29 points, including 11 points in the fourth quarter and overtime, and the Los Angeles Clippers overcame a 15-point first-half deficit and slipped by the Orlando Magic 107-102 on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Nash Has 24 Points to Lead Suns Past Hawks 99-90 (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:09:40 GMT)
    Steve Nash scored 24 points and the Phoenix Suns broke open a close game with a 24-6 run to close the third quarter and beat the Atlanta Hawks 99-90 on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: D’Antoni Speaks Up for Jeffries (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:27:43 GMT)
    Knicks Coach Mike D’Antoni spoke up for Jared Jeffries, and Jeffries for D’Antoni.

  • [New York Times] Williams Rallies 76ers to 95-90 Win Over Lakers (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 02:49:11 GMT)
    Lou Williams nailed the go-ahead 3-pointer, scored 14 of his 24 points in the fourth quarter, and spoiled Kobe Bryant’s record-setting night while leading the Philadelphia 76ers to 95-90 win over the Los Angeles Lakers on Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Bryant Passes O’Neal for 5th on NBA Scoring List (Tue, 07 Feb 2012 01:15:28 GMT)
    Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant has passed former teammate Shaquille O’Neal and moved into fifth place on the NBA’s career scoring list.

  • 81 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Feb 07 2012)

    1. Bruno Almeida

      now both Melo and Amare will probably be out for the Wizards game… is Ike Diogu injured or something?

      I think he’s got good potential, a 10-day contract wouldn’t hurt.

    2. hoolahoop

      Last night’s game is a pointed example of what some of us have been droning on and on about all along.
      YES-Ball movement, player motion, a good PG and tough defense.
      NO- give the ball to the superstar and everybody stand around watch because you all suck.

      We know Amare can play within the system. He’s done it before and he preaches it.
      If Melo moves the ball and minimizes the iso’s, and Lin can continue to play half as good as he did the last two games, the rest of this season is going to be a joy ride.

    3. Gideon Zaga

      Aside from all the Lin spectaculars, my highlight of the night was when the boys from the Giants stepped on the court. That was really cool. Looking back at the game thread, it suRprises me how everything somehow turned into Melo and the fact that you dont need marquee players to win in this league. I mean cant we all just be friends for once and enjoy that our team is winning regardless of whatever the reason is. I’m not trrying to downgrade our win but for Gods sake its the Jazz. Do the same thing to the Lakers without Melo and Amare and with TC in foul trouble and yeah and ill be very impressed. Some games we expect a battle, other games come on we have no question about. Although Mr. Lin is pretty impressive, we still have to do our best to sign JR when he gets back cos the Clippers are gonna be very aggressive due to Chauncey’s injury and we can’t lose to the Clips three times. I mean first Cp3, Kmart and maybe JR come on JD make it happen, call the agent and offer him a chopper or something.

    4. Frank

      @3 – I assume this is a half-dig at Carmelo, but as Brian alluded to in the last thread, Melo has really been a different player since his flameout against the Nuggets. He did take 26 shots against the Bulls, but he didn’t even lead the team in shots that game (Amare had 27). Since the Denver game, he’s only taking 15.9 shots/36 and is averaging 4.93 assists/36 as well. His season per-36 averages are 19.7 shots/36 and 4.4 assists/36.

      There’s no doubt in my mind that Melo is trying to adjust his game. Will be very interesting to see how the team plays when everyone is back, now that Lin has established a totally new dynamic.

    5. Frank

      @4 – good point re: JR and how the Billups injury may change the equation there. JR would fit perfectly with the Clips now — if he’s willing to take a minimum contract there, that would be a VERY scary team. Hopefully he’ll want to come back to the NY area for more $.

    6. Gideon Zaga

      Yeah we hear your sentiments but you guys make it seam as if that’s all it takes. Others who look ahead to playoff basketball know that it comes down to matchups since defenses will be crisp and very attentive to detail and adjustments. When you move the ball and you have 7 seconds left on the clock, you best shot is give it to your marquee player and live with the outcome. Last year Dallas rode Dirk’s isos half the time to the finals, remember that.

      hoolahoop:
      Last night’s game is a pointed example of what some of us have been droning on and on about all along.
      YES-Ball movement, player motion, a good PG and tough defense.
      NO- give the ball to the superstar and everybody stand around watch because you all suck.

      We know Amare can play within the system. He’s done it before and he preaches it.
      If Melo moves the ball and minimizes the iso’s, and Lin can continue to play half as good as he did the last two games, the rest of this season is going to be a joy ride.

    7. Gideon Zaga

      If ball movement, player movement, good point guard play and tough defense wins then why hasnt Dantoni’s famed system, or even the model of it with better defense ran in Phoenix by his successor,won a championship by now. Cue in Excuses here, I’m waiting.

    8. Nick C.

      @ 9 for someone who posts “I mean cant we all just be friends for once and enjoy that our team is winning regardless of whatever the reason is” you sure are argumentative.

    9. Gideon Zaga

      Look we can all make excuses about how that game went, remember first that its a lockout season, the Lakers were on the second night of a back to back from mile high, they were actually up on them until Mike Brown decided to go all ghetto on the ref and i dont have to stress the importance of momentum in basketball, check the ny @ celts game. Fact is in a 7 game series, there is little doubt that that the Lakers beat the Jazz.

      njasdjdh: http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=320204026

      See also: Standings.

    10. Gideon Zaga

      OK? Your point? what is the ultimate goal of fanhood, even if you call yourself a smart fan whats the endgame to all this? Even thcj as bitter as he may seem was very happy last night.

      Nick C.:
      @ 9 for someone who posts “I mean cant we all just be friends for once and enjoy that our team is winning regardless of whatever the reason is” you sure are argumentative.

    11. hoolahoop

      Gideon Zaga:
      If ball movement, player movement, good point guard play and tough defense wins then why hasnt Dantoni’s famed system, or even the model of it with better defense ran in Phoenix by his successor,won a championship by now. Cue in Excuses here, I’m waiting.

      Phoenix had some fantastic seasons. You can still be a great team and not win the big one. Just like the knicks during the Ewing years.

    12. hoolahoop

      Gideon Zaga:
      If ball movement, player movement, good point guard play and tough defense wins then why hasnt Dantoni’s famed system, or even the model of it with better defense ran in Phoenix by his successor,won a championship by now. Cue in Excuses here, I’m waiting.

      Or, I can turn it around on you and ask you why didn’t Denver with Melo ever get past the first round except once. Please, I don’t want to hear the excuses.

    13. Dan Panorama

      Yeah the good thing about Lin is it’s not like he needs to play crazy every night. If he’s just somewhere around Duhon circa 2008 running the pick and roll well with three superb finishers and breaking up all the ISOs that’s really all we need in our position. It was awesome to see him turn into Steve Nash for a night, but in most circumstances no way we need him to do anything near that.

    14. ess-dog

      Suddenly Gallo and Billups injured and Lin blows up out of nowhere…

      How quickly things change!

      I would love to see our team with everyone healthy, including Jorts. I hope that can happen…

    15. xduckshoex

      Gideon Zaga:
      If ball movement, player movement, good point guard play and tough defense wins then why hasnt Dantoni’s famed system, or even the model of it with better defense ran in Phoenix by his successor,won a championship by now. Cue in Excuses here, I’m waiting.

      Well for one thing, the Suns defense actually got significantly worse when D’Antoni left.

    16. Gideon Zaga

      What’s the point of being a great regular season team and being bad in the playoffs? I now get why most of you love the Nuggets, the Giants just won the ultimate prize and you know who was great in the regular season the Packers, Dallas won the championship and even though San Antonio won the regular season, no one even picked them to win it all. I’m sorry but Playoff basketball is the best basketball, where defense gets tougher and offenses are forced to be unconventional. Im sorry but what’s the point if we could all move the ball and be tied into a match of whoever moves the ball the most wins. I want tsee how great offenses react to great defenses and how great skill players dominate defenses to the point where one asks himself how can you defend such artistry and vice versa. I’d rather my team be the last one standing than to go fishing when the going gets tough. I want my team not only to be great in the season but in the playoffs as well but if I had the option I would rather they be great in the playoffs.

      hoolahoop: Phoenix had some fantastic seasons. You can still be a great team and not win the big one. Just like the knicks during the Ewing years.

    17. Garson

      Have a bad feeling Suns will push a Nash for Lin , Iman trade knowing he wants to be in NY.

      Dont know if that would be terrible but can see Dolan giving into whatever they want to have nash here.

    18. Gideon Zaga

      Unfortunately this argument isn’t at all about Melo, it’s about your sure notion that ball movement, player movement, pg play and now tough defense as you keep adding to your list is sure recipe for winning basketball. My only question was how come the most famed ball movement orientated basketball coach never has once won a championship.

      hoolahoop: Or, I can turn it around on you and ask you why didn’t Denver with Melo ever get past the first round except once. Please, I don’t want to hear the excuses.

    19. Frank

      Garson:
      Have a bad feeling Suns will push a Nash for Lin , Iman trade knowing he wants to be in NY.

      Dont know if that would be terrible but can see Dolan giving into whatever they want to have nash here.

      It’s a good thing there’s no conceivable way under the trade rules that the Knicks can trade for Nash without including Chandler, Melo, or Amare.

      @Gideon Zaga and hoolahoop – I’m pretty sure no one here or anywhere is opposed to ball movement and on-court player movement. The question has always been whether you NEED an iso-type player to win in the playoffs when the defense/physicality picks up and the officials swallow their whistles.

    20. massive

      Coaching is only one part of the game. Basketball is a sport in which good coaching makes up for talent, but where talent eventually determines the outcome at the highest level of play. Ball movement and team defense is a great way to win basketball games, but it usually comes down to talent and production, not coaching.

    21. Frank O.

      hoolahoop:
      Last night’s game is a pointed example of what some of us have been droning on and on about all along.
      YES-Ball movement, player motion, a good PG and tough defense.
      NO- give the ball to the superstar and everybody stand around watch because you all suck.

      We know Amare can play within the system. He’s done it before and he preaches it.
      If Melo moves the ball and minimizes the iso’s, and Lin can continue to play half as good as he did the last two games, the rest of this season is going to be a joy ride.

      I think the key point here is that to this point, neither Amare nor Melo had played this year with a point guard. They were being asked, or required to try and find their own shots because TD, Shump and Bibby were unable to enable them.
      Now that Lin appears to be a strong facilitator, he makes the hero, ball stopping behaviors that Melo and Stat displayed superfluous.
      This is not a case of ‘melo and Stat sucked, see what playing together does argument.’
      This was a ‘we have no point guard, so Melo and Stat, because no one was playing natural positions and, as a result, missing the ocean, felt they need to try everything’ argument.

    22. Frank

      ess-dog:
      Suddenly Gallo and Billups injured and Lin blows up out of nowhere…

      How quickly things change!

      Seriously – just a few days ago Chris Broussard was tweeting about the Knicks trying to trade for Jonny Flynn. Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth just thinking about that.

      i’m pretty sure the vaunted Daryl Morey is not so happy he held onto Flynn instead of Lin. Hey, that rhymes!

    23. massive

      Frank: Seriously – just a few days ago Chris Broussard was tweeting about the Knicks trying to trade for Jonny Flynn.Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth just thinking about that.

      i’m pretty sure the vaunted Daryl Morey is not so happy he held onto Flynn instead of Lin. Hey, that rhymes!

    24. Frank

      And….Howard Beck just tweeted that Melo is out 1-2 weeks. The Legend of J-Lin could not have come at a better time.

    25. massive

      Oops, excuse my misquote/double post.

      You know I sorta hate Darryl Morey for the T Mac trade. I never wanna do business with him again unless he’s trading us our pick back, plus his picks for the next 9 years.

    26. Frank O.

      By the way, I joked last night late in the game that if anyone said anymore bad about Jeffries that we would have to step outside.
      In all seriousness, D’Antoni made a more serious but similar argument against those who boo Jeffries. It was rare and poignant, and shows the depth of trust Mike D. has in Jared to do the right things.
      I have rarely seen someone do so much with so little. With pure guts, effort, self-sacrifice and determination he leaves it out there every night. How often have we been able to say that about the millionaires that have come and gone that didn’t play hard?
      D’Antoni reminded us all, that Jeffries, unlike folks like Amare and Melo, took less money than he was offered so that he could come back to NYC and help the Knicks break free of this decade long funk.
      He last night took five charges, should have had at least three more, had a host of rebounds and, as Jim pointed out, guarded three rhino-sized men all while battling a sore calf that wanted to cramp on him all night long. We saw him freeze his foot several times on the ground trying to prevent the calf from cramping and driving him from the game. He never, ever stops playing hard.
      How can you not love that in a guy?

    27. xduckshoex

      Frank O.:
      By the way, I joked last night late in the game that if anyone said anymore bad about Jeffries that we would have to step outside.
      In all seriousness, D’Antoni made a more serious but similar argument against those who boo Jeffries. It was rare and poignant, and shows the depth of trust Mike D. has in Jared to do the right things.
      I have rarely seen someone do so much with so little. With pure guts, effort, self-sacrifice and determination he leaves it out there every night. How often have we been able to say that about the millionaires that have come and gone that didn’t play hard?
      D’Antoni reminded us all, that Jeffries, unlike folks like Amare and Melo, took less money than he was offered so that he could come back to NYC and help the Knicks break free of this decade long funk.
      He last night took five charges, should have had at least three more, had a host of rebounds and, as Jim pointed out, guarded three rhino-sized men all while battling a sore calf that wanted to cramp on him all night long. We saw him freeze his foot several times on the ground trying to prevent the calf from cramping and driving him from the game. He never, ever stops playing hard.
      How can you not love that in a guy?

      I agree with this. Jeffries can be a frustrating player but he’s the kind of player that everybody should be cheering for.

      I think Bill Walker deserves a lot of respect for his game last night as well, he did a good job battling with guys who had a ton of size on him.

    28. cgreene

      @31 JJ is playing some of the best defensive ball of his career. And it even seems like Lin knows how to get him the ball in some comfortable spots. I don’t even mind the wide open 18 footers from the corner or the corner 3′s. Seems like he makes those at a decent rate. The 1 thing that is bothersome is that in games where he is getting a lot of minutes he does tend to try and do some things he can’t do about 2-3 times usually resulting in a turnover. The pass that I will give him on that is maybe he is saying to himself that he needs to apply some pressure on the defense otherwise it’s 4 on 5. And I liked MDA sticking up for his guy. A rare personal perspective from the coach.

      Re: Melo injury. Man, we can’t seem to get clicking on all cylinders (along with a lot of other teams) but I would be much less concerned had we not puked up the first 1/3 of the season and have to make up so much ground.

    29. hoolahoop

      Gideon Zaga: What’s the point of being a great regular season team and being bad in the playoffs?

      They (media) make a bigger thing of it than it really is. The Russell-era Celtics and the Showtime Lakers were fast break, ball movement teams.

    30. ruruland

      Let me remind you all that the last time Melo played with a true pg, meaning the last time his game was fully diversified and was recipient of easier looks, he averaged close to 32 ppg on over 50% from field. That was the first half of 2006 before the Iverson trade, where he sort of solidified his habits as an ISO player.

      Chauncey or Iverson were combo guards at best.

      I’m quite certain Melo is foaming at the mouth to be on weakside on an Amar’e/Lin pnr, to get some looks in semi-transition when he gets his man pinned, to come off some screens and get the ball in shooting pocket, to get rewarded for running.

      Lin’s effect on the duo is going to be something.

    31. Nick C.

      Gideon Zaga: OK? Your point? what is the ultimate goal of fanhood, even if you call yourself a smart fan whats the endgame to all this? Even thcj as bitter as he may seem was very happy last night.

      That you are multiposting psychobabble and contradicting yourself all over the place.

    32. ruruland

      hoolahoop: They (media) make a bigger thing of it than it really is. The Russell-era Celtics and the Showtime Lakers were fast break, ball movement teams.

      This argument again.

      The Lakers were a run first team, which is great and can work in the playoffs, so long as you have a Kareem when the transition defense is sound. You also had Magic’s ability to post and kick.

      Yes, great movement, but no chips without those two ingredients.

      Suns could have advanced further than they did, but the degree to which they perfected (from personnel standpoint) the SOS won’t be replicated.

      You need shot creators in the playoffs. Virtually every series is a referendum on that fact.

    33. Gideon Zaga

      NOTHING wrong with that, last time I checked.

      Nick C.: That you are multiposting psychobabble and contradicting yourself all over the place.

    34. Bruno Almeida

      ruruland: This argument again.

      The Lakers were a run first team, which is great and can work in the playoffs, so long as you have a Kareem when the transition defense is sound. You also had Magic’s ability to post and kick.

      Yes, great movement, but no chips without those two ingredients.

      Suns could have advanced further than they did, but the degree to which they perfected (from personnel standpoint) the SOS won’t be replicated.

      You need shot creators in the playoffs. Virtually every series is a referendum on that fact.

      man, no one in their right minds deny the fact that you need shot creators to be a succesful basketball team, but the point is: those shots can be created in the flow of an offense, with the ball moving and the best positioned player taking the best available shot.

      you don’t have to isolate to “create” a shot, it’s been proven by every possible statistic available that iso’s tend to be inefficient shots most of the time, no matter who takes them.

      it’s excellent to have a player who can ocasionally isolate and create for himself when the team isn’t playing well or shots aren’t falling, but it’s much better to do it like Chris Paul does it, when it’s strictly necessary and after setting up his teammates a lot of times, than the way Melo has done so far this season when he goes into hero ball.

      I was encouraged by Melo’s start last game and it’s a shame he’ll be out for a couple of weeks, but if Amare comes back soon it might be a blessing in disguse, if Lin can keep putting pressure on defenses with his infiltrations, we’ll play really well and Melo will come back under less pressure to be the savior, able to play himself into a role within the offense, not stopping it.

    35. DS

      IF Lin is the real deal, it may help to have Carmelo on the bench the next couple of weeks for the rest of the players to adapt to his style w/o ‘Melo as a distraction. Also, during ‘Melo’s absence we play teams like the Wolves, Hornets, Wizards, Raptors, Kings, and Nets so hopefully we keep pace with the Bucks and Cavs in the that time frame.

      In all fairness, ‘Melo looks like and sounds like he’s becoming more agreeable to the idea of moving the ball around.

    36. xcat01

      To the Suns defense, they should have made the finals that one year against the Spurs. Until Horry took out Nash and caused the Suns to have a Mia/Knicks scuffle complete with having barely enough players to play the game. Would have been interesting to see the Suns in the finals that year.

    37. d-mar

      Frank:
      And….Howard Beck just tweeted that Melo is out 1-2 weeks. The Legend of J-Lin could not have come at a better time.

      Unfortunately, we don’t have the luxury of treading water while Melo heals. We’re still 5 under .500, so the next slump (if there is one) could really bury us as far as the playoffs go. Need to keep scratching out wins somehow, and Lin at least gives us a competent PG to run the offense.

    38. Bruno Almeida

      xcat01:
      To the Suns defense, they should have made the finals that one year against the Spurs.Until Horry took out Nash and caused the Suns to have a Mia/Knicks scuffle complete with having barely enough players to play the game.Would have been interesting to see the Suns in the finals that year.

      I don’t think the Cavs had any chance against them, just as they didn’t have against the Spurs, whoever came out of the Suns-Spurs series would have won the title in my opinion.

      people love to say something is etched in stone until it isn’t anymore… Dirk was supposedly a soft guy who could never be tough enough to win a title, until… things worked out right and he won a title.

      basketball is a tough game, sometimes it all comes down to one or two things going wrong and your chance at winning a title is gone.

    39. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I like how it took a ridiculously unlikely story of a college player with a high PAWS40 who projected well as an NBA player getting picked up after being signed as an undrafted rookie and discarded, not even worth the rookie minimum.

      And after signing two overpriced FA and a third who’s ostensibly a “complementary piece,” the kid making what, $600k, prorated, is going to save our franchise from missing the playoffs.

      If you’re paying a guy $17M to be good, but he sucks without a point guard, you probably shouldn’t have paid him that much in the first place. LeBron, Wade, Durant — those guys are worth the money.

      Lin or no Lin, this team is still in a shitload of trouble for the next 4 years. And if Lin turns out to be Steve Nash 2.0, how the hell are we going to sign him?

    40. jkhar

      Frank O.: I think the key point here is that to this point, neither Amare nor Melo had played this year with a point guard. They were being asked, or required to try and find their own shots because TD, Shump and Bibby were unable to enable them.
      Now that Lin appears to be a strong facilitator, he makes the hero, ball stopping behaviors that Melo and Stat displayed superfluous.
      This is not a case of ‘melo and Stat sucked, see what playing together does argument.’
      This was a ‘we have no point guard, so Melo and Stat, because no one was playing natural positions and, as a result, missing the ocean, felt they need to try everything’ argument.

      Agree 100%, the lack of a true PG was the biggest issue all along

    41. jkhar

      Frank O.:
      By the way, I joked last night late in the game that if anyone said anymore bad about Jeffries that we would have to step outside.
      In all seriousness, D’Antoni made a more serious but similar argument against those who boo Jeffries. It was rare and poignant, and shows the depth of trust Mike D. has in Jared to do the right things.
      I have rarely seen someone do so much with so little. With pure guts, effort, self-sacrifice and determination he leaves it out there every night. How often have we been able to say that about the millionaires that have come and gone that didn’t play hard?
      D’Antoni reminded us all, that Jeffries, unlike folks like Amare and Melo, took less money than he was offered so that he could come back to NYC and help the Knicks break free of this decade long funk.
      He last night took five charges, should have had at least three more, had a host of rebounds and, as Jim pointed out, guarded three rhino-sized men all while battling a sore calf that wanted to cramp on him all night long. We saw him freeze his foot several times on the ground trying to prevent the calf from cramping and driving him from the game. He never, ever stops playing hard.
      How can you not love that in a guy?

      Frank you are really on point today. JJ should be cheered not jeered.

    42. Will the Thrill

      Exactly. People saying: “you need a top 5 player in the league to win a title based on previous evidence” takes all the fun out of the game, and most ‘concrete’ statements like that simply aren’t true. While they may have some correlation to the past, it is not inconceivable that a team without a true superstar will win a championship. If teams get hot at the right time, and play good basketball, anything is possible.

      Bruno Almeida: I don’t think the Cavs had any chance against them, just as they didn’t have against the Spurs, whoever came out of the Suns-Spurs series would have won the title in my opinion.

      people love to say something is etched in stone until it isn’t anymore… Dirk was supposedly a soft guy who could never be tough enough to win a title, until… things worked out right and he won a title.

    43. DS

      d-mar: Unfortunately, we don’t have the luxury of treading water while Melo heals. We’re still 5 under .500, so the next slump (if there is one) could really bury us as far as the playoffs go. Need to keep scratching out wins somehow, and Lin at least gives us a competent PG to run the offense.

      Fair enough. But we’ll be facing some pretty bad teams and are only 1 game out of the 8 spot.

    44. Will the Thrill

      Bail on Melo or Amar’e, I would hope. I wouldn’t mind trading Melo right now for some nice pieces and cap space.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      I like how it took a ridiculously unlikely story of a college player with a high PAWS40 who projected well as an NBA player getting picked up after being signed as an undrafted rookie and discarded, not even worth the rookie minimum.

      And after signing two overpriced FA and a third who’s ostensibly a “complementary piece,” the kid making what, $600k, prorated, is going to save our franchise from missing the playoffs.

      If you’re paying a guy $17M to be good, but he sucks without a point guard, you probably shouldn’t have paid him that much in the first place. LeBron, Wade, Durant — those guys are worth the money.

      Lin or no Lin, this team is still in a shitload of trouble for the next 4 years. And if Lin turns out to be Steve Nash 2.0, how the hell are we going to sign him?

    45. xduckshoex

      Bruno Almeida: I don’t think the Cavs had any chance against them, just as they didn’t have against the Spurs, whoever came out of the Suns-Spurs series would have won the title in my opinion.

      people love to say something is etched in stone until it isn’t anymore… Dirk was supposedly a soft guy who could never be tough enough to win a title, until… things worked out right and he won a title.

      basketball is a tough game, sometimes it all comes down to one or two things going wrong and your chance at winning a title is gone.

      Yup.

      People have this romantic idea about sports being a one on one battle where the only thing that influences the outcome is skill and, to a lesser extent, “who wants it more”. It doesn’t really work that way. Luck plays a huge role, both on the court and off.

      And basketball fans love to speak in absolute terms that end up making them look foolish. “X will never happen” until it does. A team without a superstar wil never win a title…until it happened. A team that plays shoddy defense will never win a title…until it happened. You need a dominant center to win a title…until multiple titles were won by teams without one. The only absolute statement you can make regarding teams winning titles is this: you have to win 4 games in the Finals to win a title. Anything else is possible.

    46. Eternal OptiKnist

      Frank O.: D’Antoni made a more serious but similar argument against those who boo Jeffries. It was rare and poignant, and shows the depth of trust Mike D. has in Jared to do the right things.

      I posted about this in the ‘quick reaction’ thread. Jared Jeffries’ responded when hearing of D’antoni’s comments by saying “I’ll die for him. I’ll leave blood on the court … because he’s the best coach in the NBA.” I thought D’antoni’s comments were awesome and Jeffries response was even better. For all the fans who rag on D’antoni, take note…this is leadership beyond the Xs and Os. This team could have quit on him 3 weeks ago but they didn’t. We all whined about the defense and rightfully so…but that’s not our problem this season. Beyond Melo, Amare and Tyson, this squad is 5 second round picks, Jeffries and Shumpert. Take your hats off to MDA…the man can lead.

    47. Bruno Almeida

      Will the Thrill:
      Bail on Melo or Amar’e, I would hope. I wouldn’t mind trading Melo right now for some nice pieces and cap space.

      I’d rather see Melo traded too, but Dolan will never allow that… our only chance would be trading Amare, but with his value being pretty low right now, no trade would be beneficial to us.

      so that’s it, we’re probably stuck with this team, hoping that Lin is the answer (he probably isn’t) or that somebody else can come next year with the MLE and save us (which probably won’t happen either).

      the greatest chance we have to become title contenders is Melo somehow making the Paul Pierce transformation, and though that’s obviously also highly unlikely, it would be the best possible scenario imo.

    48. Gideon Zaga

      I like how this Basketball God makes all these statements of fact without even looking at fact. First of all Lebron we don’t even know what he is pg/ sf/ pf who knows, did you see Wade before the decision, yeah he was great but his team wasn’t, Durant has always played with the second best athletic pg in the league. These Marquee players have all been good on their own, well maybe STAT but yeah I’m glad the people that make basketball decisions doesn’t include you. Stick to your stats you’re definitely good at it and probably good at fantasy basketball.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      I like how it took a ridiculously unlikely story of a college player with a high PAWS40 who projected well as an NBA player getting picked up after being signed as an undrafted rookie and discarded, not even worth the rookie minimum.

      And after signing two overpriced FA and a third who’s ostensibly a “complementary piece,” the kid making what, $600k, prorated, is going to save our franchise from missing the playoffs.

      If you’re paying a guy $17M to be good, but he sucks without a point guard, you probably shouldn’t have paid him that much in the first place. LeBron, Wade, Durant — those guys are worth the money.

      Lin or no Lin, this team is still in a shitload of trouble for the next 4 years. And if Lin turns out to be Steve Nash 2.0, how the hell are we going to sign him?

    49. Gideon Zaga

      and what exactly does Pierce do that Melo doesn’t do better, u realise half of the shot’s he hit against us were off isos and broken plays not off sacred ball movement.

      Bruno Almeida: I’d rather see Melo traded too, but Dolan will never allow that… our only chance would be trading Amare, but with his value being pretty low right now, no trade would be beneficial to us.

      so that’s it, we’re probably stuck with this team, hoping that Lin is the answer (he probably isn’t) or that somebody else can come next year with the MLE and save us (which probably won’t happen either).

      the greatest chance we have to become title contenders is Melo somehow making the Paul Pierce transformation, and though that’s obviously also highly unlikely, it would be the best possible scenario imo.

    50. xduckshoex

      Gideon Zaga:
      and what exactly does Pierce do that Melo doesn’t do better, u realise half of the shot’s he hit against us were off isos and broken plays not off sacred ball movement.

      Defend, fit into a teams offense instead of dominating it and score with high efficiency?

    51. SJK

      53, If you look at what THCJ said, it was that LeBron, Wade, and Durant were good players regardless of whether or not they had a good point guard. He did not say that Dwayne Wade’s Miami team was great (although they did win a title with an old Jason Williams running the point) he said that Dwayne Wade was great without a good point guard. Likewise, whatever position you want to place LeBron at, he’s still a great player whether or not he has an all-star PG passing him the ball and KD is not great because of Westbrook. Amar’e, on the other hand, has not yet shown that he can be great without a decent point guard. That’s not to say he wont, but he hasn’t yet.

    52. Gideon Zaga

      I know who does better than that Luol Deng, Shane Battier, Nicholas Batum. Trade Melo for any of those and I’m sure you will become the Nuggets. Isn’t that what you want.

      xduckshoex: Defend, fit into a teams offense instead of dominating it and score with high efficiency?

    53. Bruno Almeida

      Gideon Zaga:
      and what exactly does Pierce do that Melo doesn’t do better, u realise half of the shot’s he hit against us were off isos and broken plays not off sacred ball movement.

      seriously?

      since the Big 3 came together, Pierce has had 2 seasons with .200 WS48, cracked .600 in TS% twice (and his lowest number, .582, would be a career high for Carmelo) and has topped 110 in offensive rating every season (something Melo did only twice in his career, and a straight 110 at that, while Pierce had 115, 112, 114 and 116 so far).

      all that with a lower usage rate and better defensive rating.

      the only thing Melo does better is rebounding, and by a very slim margin (9.9 TRB% against 9.6 for Pierce).

      Pierce was a very similar player to Carmelo before the Big 3, but he adjusted and became a much better team player the past 4 years… my hope is that Carmelo somehow does the same, even though I don’t think it’s very likely.

    54. Gideon Zaga

      upon reevaluating this, I concede to this. You are right but I’m still not trading Melo for Pierce.

      Bruno Almeida: seriously?

      since the Big 3 came together, Pierce has had 2 seasons with .200 WS48, cracked .600 in TS% twice (and his lowest number, .582, would be a career high for Carmelo) and has topped 110 in offensive rating every season (something Melo did only twice in his career, and a straight 110 at that, while Pierce had 115, 112, 114 and 116 so far).

      all that with a lower usage rate and better defensive rating.

      the only thing Melo does better is rebounding, and by a very slim margin (9.9 TRB% against 9.6 for Pierce).

      Pierce was a very similar player to Carmelo before the Big 3, but he adjusted and became a much better team player the past 4 years… my hope is that Carmelo somehow does the same, even though I don’t think it’s very likely.

    55. Gideon Zaga

      And I’m sure that fantasy team of yours will win not 1,not 2,….championships.

      Bruno Almeida:
      @57

      and I’d rather have Batum at his current salary than Melo, no question about that.

    56. Bruno Almeida

      Gideon Zaga:
      And I’m sure that fantasy team of yours will win not 1,not 2,….championships.

      and our team, as constructed right now, with Carmelo, will win how many titles?

      that’s right, 0.

      with Batum’s 1.8 million contract in place of Carmelo’s 20 million albatross, we’d have enough money to actually build a team, instead of having to make do with spare parts.

    57. ROUGH

      Don’t want to sound too pessimistic, but I don’t agree with the naïve over-enthusiasm around Lin as if he is an established value. The guy has played only two games!!! Yes, he surprised everyone, even himself. Yes, we hope he will continue to produce. Yes, he is a ‘genuine’ point-guard. But do not forget that he caught opposing teams by surprise as well, coming out of nowhere, without scouting reports or serious defense adjustments against his game. Only now will these take place. We shall see how he responds to these challenges in the next couple of weeks.

      Long story short: Lin surprised everybody twice so far. Will he continue doing it? Let’s wait and see. Keep your hope high, but expectations low.

    58. Nick C.

      I happened to see the Nets post-game report after the game and Avery Johnson said they have a scouting report on everyone. “If it’s a D league call up we get a report (or something to that effect)” He may have been exagerrating to make himself seem prepared, btu then again we saw by somepoint in the Utah game the Jazz trying to force him left. On the other hand Frank Williams took over the minutes at point from Charlie Ward and the Knicks had 3-4 blowout wins in a row before he injured his ankle working out on his own. Then Marbury came in and within two years Williams was out of the NBA after being beaten out of a rotation spot by none other than Chris Duhon @ Chicago.

    59. Dan Panorama

      If your name’s not Phil Jackson you probably didn’t coach a team to a title in the last 20 years anyway. It’s a pretty limited club.

    60. dogrufus

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      I like how it took a ridiculously unlikely story of a college player with a high PAWS40 who projected well as an NBA player getting picked up after being signed as an undrafted rookie and discarded, not even worth the rookie minimum.

      And after signing two overpriced FA and a third who’s ostensibly a “complementary piece,” the kid making what, $600k, prorated, is going to save our franchise from missing the playoffs.

      If you’re paying a guy $17M to be good, but he sucks without a point guard, you probably shouldn’t have paid him that much in the first place. LeBron, Wade, Durant — those guys are worth the money.

      Lin or no Lin, this team is still in a shitload of trouble for the next 4 years. And if Lin turns out to be Steve Nash 2.0, how the hell are we going to sign him?

      Oh come on, cock. If Lin turns out to be Nash 2.0 signing him will not be a problem. He’ll be restricted. Our owner will match any offers even if he gets 150 million.

    61. max fisher-cohen

      Gideon Zaga:
      If ball movement, player movement, good point guard play and tough defense wins then why hasnt Dantoni’s famed system, or even the model of it with better defense ran in Phoenix by his successor,won a championship by now. Cue in Excuses here, I’m waiting.

      Because he hasn’t had the roster. By your logic, Rick Adelman’s system (0 rings) is also bad.

      The NBA is dominated by a few guys who are in a whole different dimension from anyone else. Nash (with the benefit of MDA’s system) is probably one of them, but he was never as good as Shaq or Duncan. It’s like asking why Popovich’s Spurs hasn’t won the last four years. The team just isn’t as good as it used to be.

    62. ROUGH

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      I like how it took a ridiculously unlikely story of a college player with a high PAWS40 who projected well as an NBA player getting picked up after being signed as an undrafted rookie and discarded, not even worth the rookie minimum.

      And after signing two overpriced FA and a third who’s ostensibly a “complementary piece,” the kid making what, $600k, prorated, is going to save our franchise from missing the playoffs.

      If you’re paying a guy $17M to be good, but he sucks without a point guard, you probably shouldn’t have paid him that much in the first place. LeBron, Wade, Durant — those guys are worth the money.

      Lin or no Lin, this team is still in a shitload of trouble for the next 4 years. And if Lin turns out to be Steve Nash 2.0, how the hell are we going to sign him?

      Couldn’t agree more. Let’s only hope that, for the good of the team, Lin turns out to be a decent PG and helps the overpaid primadonnas justify (at least part of) what they earn.

    63. Frank

      I’ve been trying to read Larry Coon’s FAQ re: Lin’s status. Even though on twitter he said that Lin would be an early bird free agent, I think he’s actually a non-bird free agent since he hasn’t played more than 1 year with the same team. From reading the rest of the FAQ it seems like he IS restricted in that the NYK have right of first refusal, and he can sign either a single year contract and then become an early bird FA the next year, or sign a multi-year contract. But it appears he is restricted to the MLE-amount — and if we give him a salary above the minimum (which we’ll be required to – must be 20% greater than his current salary) then that will cut into our total MLE amount. So I had previously thought we could sign him with some sort of exception AND use the full MLE on someone like Nash — but it seems that isn’t the case.

      But he IS restricted to us for next year at least – and after that we will have Bird rights. So he could become Steve Nash 2.0 and we could still sign him regardless of our cap situation.

    64. xduckshoex

      Gideon Zaga:
      I know who does better than that Luol Deng, Shane Battier, Nicholas Batum. Trade Melo for any of those and I’m sure you will become the Nuggets. Isn’t that what you want.

      Really? When did I say anything like that?

    65. Bruno Almeida

      Frank:
      I’ve been trying to read Larry Coon’s FAQ re: Lin’s status. Even though on twitter he said that Lin would be an early bird free agent, I think he’s actually a non-bird free agent since he hasn’t played more than 1 year with the same team. From reading the rest of the FAQ it seems like he IS restricted in that the NYK have right of first refusal, and he can sign either a single year contract and then become an early bird FA the next year, or sign a multi-year contract.But it appears he is restricted to the MLE-amount — and if we give him a salary above the minimum (which we’ll be required to – must be 20% greater than his current salary) then that will cut into our total MLE amount.So I had previously thought we could sign him with some sort of exception AND use the full MLE on someone like Nash — but it seems that isn’t the case.

      But he IS restricted to us for next year at least – and after that we will have Bird rights. So he could become Steve Nash 2.0 and we could still sign him regardless of our cap situation.

      but then if we do resign him this off-season, do we have access to the MLE the year after?

    66. iserp

      For God’s sake, even last years Miami Heat had a couple of guys paid more than the minimum along with their big three. No matter how much Melo and Amare and Chandler are paid, they are only 3 roster spots, you have to fill the rest. Only Melo can go 1-on-5 at a decent (even if below average) efficiency, but that crushes all of Amare’s effectiveness (that relies in ball movement and PG play). If we are going to do that, we might as well trade Amare for some defensive guys and become a team like Iverson’s led Philadelphia circa 2001.

      However, there’s another path… and it is to fill the rest of the roster… we just saw what a replacement level player can do with the team. We have the mini-MLE this year and the MLE the next one, and we might have found a PG for 15 mpg in Lin. Let’s build around this core. The contracts of our stars are well structured… in 3 1/2 years we can scrap all this if it doesn’t work (and in 3 1/2 years, we will have draft picks again, if we don’t screw it up)

    67. Ben R

      Gideon Zaga:
      I know who does better than that Luol Deng, Shane Battier, Nicholas Batum. Trade Melo for any of those and I’m sure you will become the Nuggets. Isn’t that what you want.

      I have actually been quite happy with Melo since coming back from his injury, he has been trying to play more within the offense and is not holding the ball as much, with that said though I too would probably trade Melo for Batum and the cap space that comes with him.

      As for Deng he has actually been less efficient than Melo and is not that great of a defender, kind of an overrated and overpaid player so I would prefer Melo by far. Battier is old and on the decline but Battier at 25-26 or Melo and I go with Battier, he is the kind of player that makes teams better, the best glue guy in the NBA over the last 10+ years.

    68. Gideon Zaga

      I’ll bookmark this, just in case you’re wrong.

      Bruno Almeida: and our team, as constructed right now, with Carmelo, will win how many titles?

      that’s right, 0.

      with Batum’s 1.8 million contract in place of Carmelo’s 20 million albatross, we’d have enough money to actually build a team, instead of having to make do with spare parts.

    69. Frank

      I love how Lin has played, but let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves handing him the keys to the Corvette and dumping Melo overboard for a complementary player. There will be plenty of times this season where Melo’s scoring ability will be the difference between a W and an L.

    70. Gideon Zaga

      Dude you’re on such a roll today, while I’m on such a troll. Yeah I’m not totally sold on Lin, the kid has a real problem going left but hey it’s NY everything is overblown but at least he’s all we got and I love my team. Lin me all day.

      Frank:
      I love how Lin has played, but let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves handing him the keys to the Corvette and dumping Melo overboard for a complementary player.There will be plenty of times this season where Melo’s scoring ability will be the difference between a W and an L.

    71. Bruno Almeida

      Gideon Zaga:
      I’ll bookmark this, just in case you’re wrong.

      look, I HOPE I’m wrong, I just don’t see that happening.

      and I think you guys are really underrating Batum, he can be a little too passive, yes, but when he has played well, he has been awesome.

      he’s a really good defender, can hit the corner 3, drive, finish strongly… there’s no reason at all he can’t be like Gallo if he becomes a starter, which won’t happen while Wallace is there.

      that’s a huge bargain for 2 million a year, one that would free 16 million to be used on a good PG in case Lin is not the solution and backup players.

    72. Bruno Almeida

      oh, and by the way, he’s got .197 WS48 this season, has a .589 TS% (which would be a career high for Melo) and a 116 ORtg, with the highest usage rate of his career…

    73. Brian Cronin

      I’ve been trying to read Larry Coon’s FAQ re: Lin’s status. Even though on twitter he said that Lin would be an early bird free agent, I think he’s actually a non-bird free agent since he hasn’t played more than 1 year with the same team. From reading the rest of the FAQ it seems like he IS restricted in that the NYK have right of first refusal, and he can sign either a single year contract and then become an early bird FA the next year, or sign a multi-year contract. But it appears he is restricted to the MLE-amount — and if we give him a salary above the minimum (which we’ll be required to – must be 20% greater than his current salary) then that will cut into our total MLE amount. So I had previously thought we could sign him with some sort of exception AND use the full MLE on someone like Nash — but it seems that isn’t the case.

      But he IS restricted to us for next year at least – and after that we will have Bird rights. So he could become Steve Nash 2.0 and we could still sign him regardless of our cap situation.

      I thought that that was the situation under the old cap but that they had fixed that rule because it, in effect, punishes teams for finding hidden gems. But I guess they didn’t. Well, that sucks.

    74. Brian Cronin

      Also, losing Melo is no kind of blessing, disguised or otherwise. It is just bad, bad news. I don’t know if this team can beat the Wizards on Wednesday, let alone the Lakers and the T-Wolves.

      I am down with the idea of cutting Bibby to get a stopgap forward for the next 10 days.

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