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Friday, October 31, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Apr 30 2013)

  • [New York Times] Rockets Extend Series With Game 4 Win Over Thunder (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:37:20 GMT)
    The Houston Rockets know the odds are stacked against them in their playoff series with the Oklahoma City Thunder.    

  • [New York Times] Hansen Has ‘No Plans to Give Up’ Fight for Kings (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:37:16 GMT)
    The recommendation has been made, the vote is set and the Sacramento Kings seem all but assured of staying in California’s capital city.    

  • [New York Times] Smith Scores 29 as Hawks Top Pacers to Knot Series (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:34:06 GMT)
    The Atlanta Hawks like this new lineup. Now they’ve got to show it can win on the road.    

  • [New York Times] Nets Top Bulls 110-91, Trim Series Deficit to 3-2 (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:34:02 GMT)
    The Nets were not ready for it to be over. Not the series. Certainly not their first season in Brooklyn.    

  • [New York Times] Collins Comes Out _ and Support Quickly Follows (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:31:00 GMT)
    Jason Collins came out, got widely congratulated for his courage, and the games went on.    

  • [New York Times] Rockets Survive With 105-103 Win Over OKC (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:39:38 GMT)
    The Houston Rockets finally found a way to close out a game in their playoff series with the Oklahoma City Thunder.    

  • [New York Times] Game 5: Nets vs. Bulls (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:25:32 GMT)
    On the brink of elimination, the Nets fought back and battered the Bulls on the boards to force a Game 6.    

  • [New York Times] Bulls’ Nate Robinson Steady but not Spectacular in Game 5 (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:14:01 GMT)
    The Bulls’ Nate Robinson had 20 points and 8 assists, but he did not display the electrifying form that he showed in Game 4. Robinson called his effort “not good enough.â?    

  • [New York Times] NBA Committee Recommends Rejecting Kings Move (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 04:54:57 GMT)
    Here they stay, for now.    

  • [New York Times] NBA Playoff Capsules (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 04:48:33 GMT)
    Josh Smith scored 29 points as the Atlanta Hawks built a 17-point lead at halftime, then withstood an Indiana comeback over the final two quarters to even the series with a 102-91 victory in Game 4 on Monday night.    

  • [New York Times] Nets Still the Underdogs, but Blossoming in Brooklyn (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 03:45:29 GMT)
    With a billionaire owner and a dazzling new stadium in New York City’s most populated borough, the Brooklyn Nets are not everyone’s idea of an underdog.    

  • [New York Times] Nets 110, Bulls 91: For Nets, No Overtime and No Surrender to Bulls (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 03:38:48 GMT)
    In Game 5, a must-win, the Nets found a way to outlast the Bulls, sending the series back to Chicago for Game 6 on Thursday.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A.’s Kings Are Likely to Remain in Sacramento (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 03:29:01 GMT)
    The N.B.A.’s relocation committee recommended that the owners deny a request to move the Sacramento Kings to Seattle, a decision that will probably settle a bidding war.    

  • [New York Times] Smith Scores 29 to Lead Hawks Past Pacers 102-91 (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 03:28:18 GMT)
    Heading to his locker to get dressed, Josh Smith griped a bit when told he would have to go to the podium for the second game in a row.    

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Why Burke Could Work in the N.B.A. (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 03:26:08 GMT)
    Trey Burke of Michigan does not have the size of Michael Carter-Williams or Marcus Smart, but his quickness may help him make a mark in the N.B.A.    

  • [New York Times] Nets Win 110-91, Cut Bulls’ Lead to 3-2 (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 03:04:11 GMT)
    Flourishing instead of fading in the fourth quarter, the Nets extended their first season in Brooklyn.    

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: Jason Collins and N.B.A. Are at Frontier After Collins Announced He Is Gay (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 01:49:05 GMT)
    The N.B.A., long known for its inclusion, predicts it will be business-as-usual next season after Jason Collins’s announcement that he is gay. That is, if Collins is a part of next season.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Center Jason Collins Comes Out as Gay (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 01:06:49 GMT)
    By revealing his orientation, Jason Collins became the first openly gay male athlete playing in a major team sport.    

  • [New York Times] Players Voice Support of Jason Collins on Twitter (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 00:53:57 GMT)
    Reaction to the N.B.A. player Jason Collins’s announcement that he is gay was overwhelmingly positive on Monday.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Playoffs â?? Lakers Move From What Happened to What Now (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 00:44:54 GMT)
    After San Antonio swept them, the Lakers begin their off-season not knowing who will return next season. The biggest question remains the future of Dwight Howard.    

  • [New York Times] Petro Makes It Back to Atlanta in Time for Game 4 (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 00:27:38 GMT)
    Center Johan Petro rushed back to Atlanta to start for the Hawks in Game 4 of the playoffs against the Indiana Pacers after witnessing the birth of his first child.    

  • [New York Times] Support Pours In for Collins From All Circles (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 00:15:51 GMT)
    Jason Collins received an outpouring of support and admiration from the sporting world and many other influential voices on Monday after announcing he was gay.    

  • [New York Times] Column: Collins Did His Part. Now It’s Our Turn. (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 00:07:02 GMT)
    It says something, nearly all of it good, that on the day a male athlete in one of the major American pro sports came out as gay, the reaction from the NBA, fellow ballplayers and fans was almost uniformly positive.    

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] LJ tweets his discomfort on Collins (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 00:23:44 EDT)
    Jason Collins’ announcement on Monday that he is gay was met with public support from around the NBA.
    But ex-Knick Larry Johnson took a dissenting tone on Twitter.
    Johnson tweeted that does not know Collins and that he “seems like a great guy” but added that he’d be “uncomfortable” having “gay men” in the locker room.
    Collins announced that he’s gay in a story for Sports Illustrated on Monday, becoming the first active player in a major American team sport to do so.

  • [New York Post] Iman thrives 1 year after ACL surgery (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 03:43:07 -0500)
    Sunday was quite a way for Iman Shumpert to celebrate the one-year anniversary of tearing his ACL.
    The Georgia Tech product has been looking a lot like his rookie self, a menacing defender and rebounder, armed with a dangerous 3-point shot. He’s also putting the ball on the floor…

  • [New York Post] Anthony, Knicks confident series will end tomorrow (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 03:42:52 -0500)
    No sweep. No problem.
    The Knicks get J.R. Smith back tomorrow for Game 5 at the Garden and the Knicks believe they will close out the Celtics in five games and give James Dolan’s franchise its first playoff series win since 2000.
    “We have to be confident going…

  • [New York Post] Celts’ Bass earning his stripes against Knicks (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 03:42:36 -0500)
    BOSTON â?? As they hit the floor against the Knicks for their first Game 7 which was disguised as Game 4, the Celtics came out with the starting lineup that began the series, a unit featuring Brandon Bass back in the first five, aligned defensively against Carmelo Anthony, while Jason Terry…

  • [New York Post] Volatile Smith proving to be indispensable piece to puzzle (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 01:55:31 -0500)
    J.R. Smith’s tweet following Game 1 against Boston 10 days ago said, “#Happy4/20.â? April 20 is the unofficial holiday for pot-smokers. As father of a high-school junior and a college freshman, I prefer my kids don’t get that sort of encouragement from the winner of the…

  • [New York Post] Knicks mourn death of Jimmy Wergeles (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 00:44:02 -0500)
    Jimmy Wergeles, the Knicks’ first and longtime public relations boss, MSG Network’s first p.r. director and a Navy veteran of the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, died, Friday, at 90.
    Wergeles began with the Knicks on day one, in 1946, and retired from the Garden in 1985. He…

  • [New York Daily News] Raissman: Knicks-Celtics feud is Heaven-sent (Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:39:38 GMT)
    Those in favor of extended dramas can only pray this Knicks-Celtics series continues past Wednesday night. Once so close to Sweep City, there finally is some intrigue. The matchup is revealing stuff we did not know.    

  • 63 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Apr 30 2013)

    1. er

      I’m sorry but that Marc Bermans article is not only stupid and ignorant, but kinda racist. WTF does where JR is from have to do with anything? Also basically calling him a poser for hip hop? Wow. Can’t he just be himself? Berman also says because Melo sucked in the last game that JR is ” the most indespensible” Knick and Melo is trash without him. and to bolster this arguement he includes a win against charlotte? How do these ppl get jobs?

    2. Hubert Davis

      Apropos to nothing, I love how every year the Bulls battle through injuries suffered due to their ridiculous overuse and they’re valiant and brave and Thibodeau is lauded.

      Look at last night. Rose is out and probably afraid to come back because he knows his coach is going to play 53 minutes in a regulation game. Noah is on one foot, Gibson is on one knee, Hinrich is out with a calf strain, and Boozer/Deng/Robinson are all running on fumes, waiting to get injured.

      This, one year after they lost Rose & Noah after burning them out in a condensed season.

      Does anyone really think they’re just unlucky?

    3. Hubert Davis

      er:
      I’m sorry but that Marc Bermans article is not only stupid and ignorant, but kinda racist. WTF does where JR is from have to do with anything? Also basically calling him a poser for hip hop? Wow. Can’t he just be himself? Berman also says because Melo sucked in the last game that JR is ” the most indespensible” Knick and Melo is trash without him. and to bolster this arguement he includes a win against charlotte? How do these ppl get jobs?

      Good lord, that was a terrible article.

    4. er

      Hubert Davis: Good lord, that was a terrible article.

      Since i am from brooklyn and also spent time growing up in newark, i guess im supposed to be a gun toting goon.

    5. mcliff05

      Imagine if the Hawks actually pulled this series out. I know its highly unlikely but I can dream cant I?

    6. er

      mcliff05: Imagine if the Hawks actually pulled this series out. I know its highly unlikely but I can dream cant I?

      i was uncomfortably giddy last night lol

    7. WeirdJohn

      What do we take away from the Hawks tying their series with the Pacers? That the Pacers actually are not a good team, or the Hawks are actually better than we all thought?

      I’m guessing the former which makes me think that the Knicks got one of the toughest draws in the Celtics. I’d say outside of Chicago, Boston may be the toughest team out of the 3-8 seeds. Which also makes me think that near comeback in Game 4 is even more of a reason to be optimistic about this Knicks team’s chances.

    8. bocker84

      mcliff05:
      Imagine if the Hawks actually pulled this series out.I know its highly unlikely but I can dream cant I?

      All I know is that I live in Atlanta, and I would give up just about anything for the Hawks to play the Knicks in the second round so that I can cheer for a sweep appropriately.

    9. PC

      WeirdJohn: What do we take away from the Hawks tying their series with the Pacers? That the Pacers actually are not a good team, or the Hawks are actually better than we all thought?I’m guessing the former which makes me think that the Knicks got one of the toughest draws in the Celtics. I’d say outside of Chicago, Boston may be the toughest team out of the 3-8 seeds. Which also makes me think that near comeback in Game 4 is even more of a reason to be optimistic about this Knicks team’s chances.

      Without the Overtime period, the Celts are avergaring under 80 points per game. That’s not a tough draw. They suck.

      Us almost beating them without our second best player, on their home court, is evidence that they really suck.

      The Hawks are winning home games because they are finally playing in front of 19K fans that all support the Hawks. That never happens. They will win every home game and lose every road game.

    10. Juany8

      PC: Without the Overtime period, the Celts are avergaring under 80 points per game.That’s not a tough draw.They suck.

      Us almost beating them without our second best player, on their home court, is evidence that they really suck.

      The Hawks are winning home games because they are finally playing in front of 19K fans that all support the Hawks.That never happens.They will win every home game and lose every road game.

      I think the argument is not that the celtics are good, but that every team in the East except for the Knicks and Miami is terrible. Hard to believe any of these teams would pose a serious threat, barring any more injuries of course.

    11. lavor postell

      Indiana is a joke. It really concerns me to play them because of how mentally deranged Hibbert and West get away with behaving. Both of them are really dirty players. Not in like a foul somebody hard way, but in a I want to just take this guy out kind of way.

    12. mokers

      Hubert Davis:
      Apropos to nothing, I love how every year the Bulls battle through injuries suffered due to their ridiculous overuse and they’re valiant and brave and Thibodeau is lauded.

      Look at last night.Rose is out and probably afraid to come back because he knows his coach is going to play 53 minutes in a regulation game.Noah is on one foot, Gibson is on one knee, Hinrich is out with a calf strain, and Boozer/Deng/Robinson are all running on fumes, waiting to get injured.

      This, one year after they lost Rose & Noah after burning them out in a condensed season.

      Does anyone really think they’re just unlucky?

      I think it says a lot about how tough the players are on the Bulls, but it’s like people wondering why a pitcher blew his elbow out when Dusty Baker was managing.

    13. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, I was slightly worried after each of the series’ respective Games 2, when the Knicks lost roughly half of the quarters they played against Boston while Indy won all eight of their quarters against Atlanta. Then Indy went to Atlanta and fell apart, so I can’t take Indy seriously anymore. You can lose a game to Atlanta and I won’t judge you too harshly, but you can’t lose two and you certainly can’t lose any of them by being blown out.

      Essentially, Indiana’s whole deal is that they can’t comeback against anyone. They are amazing when they hold a lead on you, but if they’re down, they’re finished.

    14. er

      man , i wouldnt wanna play for the bulls. It seems like you just get hurt. Kirk is gone for the series, dont be suprised if BK ends up winning it

    15. stratomatic

      IMO the Berman article is half right.

      The JR incident was intentional and I wouldn’t want him to be a role model for my kids either. :-)

      Where he’s off is in giving JR so much credit for his play (he’s in good company on that). IMO, JR is not even a EV+ player. He’s an important part of THIS Knicks team because it’s constructed around Melo with mostly defensive and other low usage specialists.

      So Melo needs some scoring help. (He mostly gets it from Felton in the starting lineup and JR off the bench).

      If this was a more traditionally constructed team it would have another scorer or two with some flexibility in usage (or if Amare was healthy and had a 30 minute role). Then, neither Melo or JR would be as critical as they are now with a team that features guys like Chandler, Kidd, Prigiono, Martin, Novak etc.. in large roles.

      Most players that can easily create their own shot (and that also have no conscious about shooting) will have nights or periods where everything is going in and they look like scoring Gods (see Nate Robinson), but the net of it all is rarely very good.

    16. johnlocke

      I don’t really think it’s accurate to judge one’s team chances against another, based on how they’re playing in their respective series. The playoffs is all about matchups. I think the Knicks should be the favorite against Indiana, but it won’t be easy to go into their building and get a win. If ATL was to win on Indy’s homecourt, then I think that might be some indication of their vulnerability, but Indy is deep, the best defensive team in the NBA, and if we don’t share the ball, they will ground ISO-ball to a halt.

      Brian Cronin:
      Yeah, I was slightly worried after each of the series’ respective Games 2, when the Knicks lost roughly half of the quarters they played against Boston while Indy won all eight of their quarters against Atlanta. Then Indy went to Atlanta and fell apart, so I can’t take Indy seriously anymore. You can lose a game to Atlanta and I won’t judge you too harshly, but you can’t lose two and you certainly can’t lose any of them by being blown out.

      Essentially, Indiana’s whole deal is that they can’t comeback against anyone. They are amazing when they hold a lead on you, but if they’re down, they’re finished.

    17. Hubert Davis

      This has to be the unspoken reason why Rose is not playing, right? Both he and the organization know that Thibodeau can’t be trusted to not play him 45 minutes a night.

    18. Hubert Davis

      stratomatic:

      The JR incident was intentional and I wouldn’t want him to be a role model for my kids either. :-)

      Bringing your children and their role models into it is asinine. So what that you don’t want him to be a role model for your kid? It’s irrelevant and only a hack would bring it into the conversation.

      BTW does anyone want their kid to grow up to be Mark Berman?

    19. ruruland

      stratomatic:
      IMO the Berman

      So Melo needs some scoring help.(He mostly gets it from Felton in the starting lineup and JR off the bench).

      If this was a more traditionally constructed team it would have another scorer or two with some flexibility in usage (or if Amare was healthy and had a 30 minute role). Then, neither Melo or JR would be as critical as they are now with a team that features guys like Chandler, Kidd, Prigiono, Martin, Novak etc..in large roles.

      Most players that can easily create their own shot (and that also have no conscious about shooting) will have nights or periods where everything is going in and they look like scoring Gods (see Nate Robinson), but the net of it all is rarely very good.

      If Amare returned over a long period of time to be a 30 mpg, 17-20 efficient ppg player, you would see Melo and JR recalibrate their games as they eventually did with Iverson.

      Both players accepted more off ball opps. Both players had highest efficiency of career in lower usage environments.

      Melo’s usage goes down and his assist rate goes up quite a bit with Amare in lineup.

      Still think Knicks best lineup vs Miami and hopefully next season will be Felton, Smith, Melo, Amare, Chandler.

    20. elikint

      Re: Shumpert’s progress, westbrook and DRose: Who’s been the best NBA player over the years post knee surgery?

    21. flossy

      PC: The Hawks are winning home games because they are finally playing in front of 19K fans that all support the Hawks. That never happens. They will win every home game and lose every road game.

      Did you mean 1,900 fans? I saw a photo of the Atlanta crowd at tip off and it was pathetic.

      Neither the Hawks nor Pacers are good enough to win much on the road, so this series could go the distance.

    22. Brian Cronin

      Re: Shumpert’s progress, westbrook and DRose: Who’s been the best NBA player over the years post knee surgery?

      Amar’e, right? Four All-NBA appearances after his knee injury, including one 1st team All-NBA (it was a BS first team, but still). Tim Hardaway also made two All-Star appearances after his awful knee injury.

    23. Brian Cronin

      By the way, I forgot Amar’e was second team All-NBA his first year as a Knick. So now Melo’s inevitable second team All-NBA is not going to feel as special for me. However, Melo will undoubtedly be the first Knick since Ewing to end up in the top five of the MVP balloting, so that will be special enough for me!

    24. stratomatic

      ruruland: If Amare returned over a long period of time to be a 30 mpg, 17-20 efficient ppg player, you would see Melo and JR recalibrate their games as they eventually did with Iverson.

      Both players accepted more off ball opps. Both players had highest efficiency of career in lower usage environments.

      Melo’s usage goes down and his assist rate goes up quite a bit with Amare in lineup.

      Still think Knicks best lineup vs Miami and hopefully next season will be Felton, Smith, Melo, Amare, Chandler.

      Hey wait a minute, we agree. :-)

    25. stratomatic

      Juany8: I think the argument is not that the celtics are good, but that every team in the East except for the Knicks and Miami is terrible. Hard to believe any of these teams would pose a serious threat, barring any more injuries of course.

      IMO the Celtics are not even an average NBA team right now. They would have been trounced and missed the playoffs if they played the tougher schedule out west. Given the injuries, the east was atrocious other than Miami, NY and Indiana. And I would argue that NY and Indiana would have been fighting for the 6th seed in the west.

    26. Garson

      Hubert Davis:

      BTW does anyone want their kid to grow up to be Mark Berman?

      My Kid at 4 years old has already matched Bermans intelligence level. I still don’t understand how that man is still employed as the lead beat writer for the #1 sports newspaper in NYC. His writing is one dimensional and makes me feel like i wasted minutes of my life every time I push myself to read it.

    27. Frank O.

      ruruland:

      Still think Knicks best lineup vs Miami and hopefully next season will be Felton, Smith, Melo, Amare, Chandler.

      This is great, although I would go with shump and keep smith as sixth man…if you are talking about starting lineups..

    28. Brian Cronin

      My Kid at 4 years old has already matched Bermans intelligence level. I still don’t understand how that man is still employed as the lead beat writer for the #1 sports newspaper in NYC. His writing is one dimensional and makes me feel like i wasted minutes of my life every time I push myself to read it.

      Berman and Isola both know their place. Just troll people, basically. It gets them a lot of attention. Even if it is just people insulting them, at least people are paying attention to them, ya know?

    29. Garson

      Agreed… At least Isola is somewhat original.
      Berman is a waste of time and should be writing for the Liberty… At most

    30. Juany8

      stratomatic: IMO the Celtics are not even an average NBA team right now. They would have been trounced and missed the playoffs if they played the tougher schedule out west.Given the injuries, the east was atrocious other than Miami, NY and Indiana. And I would argue that NY and Indiana would have been fighting for the 6th seed in the west.

      And I would argue that with OKC hobbled, the Knicks have the second best chance of anyone in the league of winning the championship. I’m perfectly fine with the Knicks being the 6th seed in the west considering who the 3 seed was lol. Where are all the people saying Denver would have easily made the conference finals in the East? Guess they’re still waiting for javale McGee to help a basketball team win games

    31. stratomatic

      Juany8: And I would argue that with OKC hobbled, the Knicks have the second best chance of anyone in the league of winning the championship. I’m perfectly fine with the Knicks being the 6th seed in the west considering who the 3 seed was lol. Where are all the people saying Denver would have easily made the conference finals in the East? Guess they’re still waiting for javale McGee to help a basketball team win games

      I still think Denver is the 5th best team in the NBA. When all the teams are 100% I rate Miami, OKC, SAS, and LA Clips over them. Memphis, NY, and Denver are all very close.

      1. Gallo is not a great player, but he’s a critical component to that team because he’s one of the few outside shooters they have that draws attention and creates space for rest of the team. He’s also a playmaker and gets to the FT line a lot when they a bucket. He’s a solid scorer on a team that needs scoring from other than on the break.

      2. Faried is the most productive player on the team. He was way less than 100% when he returned for game 2 in Denver. If he was 100%, they probably would have won game 2 without Gallo and this would be a 2-2 series going back to Denver.

      3. I like David Lee, but his loss was a blessing in disguise. Marc Jackson did the correct thing (shocking, I know). He put Jack in the starting lineup (who is EV+) and created some matcup dilemas for Karl. Then Karl, as he always does around playoff time, outthought himself and started playing inferior players more minutes to try to match up better – which was a terrible idea.

      4. Curry is close to God, but he’s not this good on a consistent basis.

      Sometimes shit happens. :-)

    32. Juany8

      stratomatic: I still think Denver is the 5th best team in the NBA.When all the teams are 100% I rate Miami, OKC, SAS, and LA Clips over them.Memphis, NY, and Denver are all very close.

      1. Gallo is not a great player, but he’s a critical component to that team because he’s one of the few outside shooters they have that draws attention and creates space for rest of the team. He’s also a playmaker and gets to the FT line a lot when they a bucket. He’s a solid scorer on a team that needs scoring from other than on the break.

      2. Faried is the most productive player on the team.He was way less than 100% when he returned for game 2 in Denver.If he was 100%, they probably would have won game 2 without Gallo and this would be a 2-2 series going back to Denver.

      3. I like David Lee, but his loss was a blessing in disguise. Marc Jackson did the correct thing (shocking, I know). He put Jack in the starting lineup (who is EV+) and created some matcup dilemas for Karl. Then Karl, as he always does around playoff time, outthought himself and started playing inferior players more minutes to try to match up better – which was a terrible idea.

      4. Curry is close to God, but he’s not this good on a consistent basis.

      Sometimes shit happens. :-)

      You mean every year? How often do the numbers have to be wrong about Denver before we admit that the numbers we’re using to evaluate them are biased in their favor? Keep in mind that golden state isn’t even that good a team, Denver would be looking at getting swept in the second round anyways. And I’d argue that losing David lee is a far bigger deal than losing Faried for a game or 2, and if lee hadnt played hurt in game 1, sucking it up on the court, the series would be over.

      You can’t just argue hypotheticals when me and ruru have said Denver would suck in the playoffs all year, and even we thought…

    33. Juany8

      By the way, if Faried is your best player, you’re going to be losing in the first round pretty often lol. Worst PF on any “contender” by quite a bit

    34. ruruland

      stratomatic:

      1. Gallo is not a great player, but he’s a critical component to that team because he’s one of the few outside shooters they have that draws attention and creates space for rest of the team. He’s also a playmaker and gets to the FT line a lot when they a bucket. He’s a solid scorer on a team that needs scoring from other than on the break.

      2. Faried is the most productive player on the team.He was way less than 100% when he returned for game 2 in Denver.If he was 100%, they probably would have won game 2 without Gallo and this would be a 2-2 series going back to Denver.

      3. I like David Lee, but his loss was a blessing in disguise. Marc Jackson did the correct thing (shocking, I know). He put Jack in the starting lineup (who is EV+) and created some matcup dilemas for Karl. Then Karl, as he always does around playoff time, outthought himself and started playing inferior players more minutes to try to match up better – which was a terrible idea.

      4. Curry is close to God, but he’s not this good on a consistent basis.

      1) Gallo is a solid player, no doubt. But the talk before the playoffs was that the Nuggets had the depth to replace any starter succumbed to injury. Many argued that giving Chandler Gallo’s minutes was a net positive. Let’s remember how Gallo played in last post-season when he was a featured part of the offense.

      2) Faried fills up a stat sheet with rebounds, but Denver was only a +.2 on the season with him on floor, as the defense was significantly worse. David Lee is a similarly productive player, but apparently to your tortured logic is not important to GS like Faried is to Denver, even though the player replacing Faried is actually more productive than the player replacing Lee.

      Maybe there’s something wrong with your model there. Care to reveal it?

      cont….

    35. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: You mean every year? How often do the numbers have to be wrong about Denver before we admit that the numbers we’re using to evaluate them are biased in their favor? Keep in mind that golden state isn’t even that good a team, Denver would be looking at getting swept in the second round anyways. And I’d argue that losing David lee is a far bigger deal than losing Faried for a game or 2, and if lee hadnt played hurt in game 1, sucking it up on the court, the series would be over.

      You can’t just argue hypotheticals when me and ruru have said Denver would suck in the playoffs all year, and even we thought…

      Dude. WP cannot account for when George Karl does not play his centers in games 2 through 4. The interior play has been fine tonight. Look at the points in the paint for each team. I’m not saying that Koufas and McGee are All-NBA players, but most centers are better than no centers…

      WP says that centers are more valuable, on average, than PF. That means that a replacement-level player at C will be more productive than a replacement-level player at PF. So when you make Faried and Chandler centers, you ask them to replicate the quantifiable outcomes of a C while playing players that are much taller and larger than them. This is an indictment of Karl. It hasn’t proven anything about Wins Produced. Wins Produced isn’t even in the conversation here. Go on Roundball Mining Co. and read the endless comments about how badly Karl has fucked this series for the Nuggets.

      How can you blame the players when he’s putting Wilson Fucking Chandler at center? Seriously!

    36. ruruland

      3) One of Denver’s biggest regular season strengths was forcing turnovers with its perimeter defense, heating up the ball with Karl’s patented traps and pressures.

      4) Denver should have the personnel to contain Golden State. If there really is significant value to a presumed elite wing defender like Iguodala and Chandler, they sure haven’t shown their defensive chops in this series.

      And naturally, this contrived argument that Denver should have won game two because of Faried’s injury not only ignores that Lee was injured in the same game, but that Denver could have lost game one as well.

      The way Karl teaches and coaches the game can work in the right situation, but his offense has always been over-reliant on defensive gimmicks, which don’t work in the playoffs, creating a domino effect in the postseason.

      As Dean Oliver noted, and yeah, he does his own models as well probably not as good as yours, a lot of things Denver does well don’t translate into the postseason.

      They are a fun team, a great regular season team. I’m still a big fan. I predicted before the season they’d have the best record in franchise history.

      But they aren’t built for the playoffs. On a team not dependent on any one player to create offense, you can’t make the excuse that Gallo makes all the difference. At best, he cancels out Lee, who was actually a much more critical part of the Warriors success than Gallo has ever been for Denver.

      As Juany said, this will be the third year Denver has lost in the playoffs to a team it had a better srs than. Now, the 2011 team was a lot different than this one, but much of what made it successful isn’t.

    37. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Dude. WP cannot account for when George Karl does not play his centers in games 2 through 4. The interior play has been fine tonight. Look at the points in the paint for each team. I’m not saying that Koufas and McGee are All-NBA players, but most centers are better than no centers…

      WP says that centers are more valuable, on average, than PF. That means that a replacement-level player at C will be more productive than a replacement-level player at PF. So when you make Faried and Chandler centers, you ask them to replicate the quantifiable outcomes of a C while playing players that are much taller and larger than them. This is an indictment of Karl. It hasn’t proven anything about Wins Produced. Wins Produced isn’t even in the conversation here. Go on Roundball Mining Co. and read the endless comments about how badly Karl has fucked this series for the Nuggets.

      How can you blame the players when he’s putting Wilson Fucking Chandler at center? Seriously!

      The Warriors are playing Harrison Barnes as a pf, and you’re wrong, they played Faried at center in game 3. Chandler played 23 minutes, Faried 33 minutes, Koufos and McGee a combined 28 minutes (they were negative 8s) in game 3.

      Denver had an o rebound % of 33 in game three, above their regular season average!!

      Hard to argue that Denver lost the game on the interior relative to their regular season strength.

      Something about containing the Warriors guards. Hmmm, maybe that’s why Karl played small.

    38. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ruruland: The Warriors are playing Harrison Barnes as a pf, and you’re wrong, they played Faried at center in game 3. Chandler played 23 minutes, Faried 33 minutes, Koufos and McGee a combined 28 minutes (they were negative 8s) in game 3.

      Denver had an o rebound % of 33 in game three, above their regular season average!!

      Hard to argue that Denver lost the game on the interior relative to their regular season strength.

      Something about containing the Warriors guards. Hmmm, maybe that’s why Karl played small.

      Master of spin. I think it’s a very simple fix. Play your centers. Easy.

      You will argue all day that Carmelo Anthony needs three-point shooters to give him space or the option to dribble drive, yet you won’t concede that having a center, especially one as large and long as McGee, would theoretically help the perimeter players stay on the perimeter, where Golden State can bury a team.

      So centers don’t help perimeter defense? Is that what you’re saying?

    39. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Dude. WP cannot account for when George Karl does not play his centers in games 2 through 4. The interior play has been fine tonight. Look at the points in the paint for each team. I’m not saying that Koufas and McGee are All-NBA players, but most centers are better than no centers…

      WP says that centers are more valuable, on average, than PF. That means that a replacement-level player at C will be more productive than a replacement-level player at PF. So when you make Faried and Chandler centers, you ask them to replicate the quantifiable outcomes of a C while playing players that are much taller and larger than them. This is an indictment of Karl. It hasn’t proven anything about Wins Produced. Wins Produced isn’t even in the conversation here. Go on Roundball Mining Co. and read the endless comments about how badly Karl has fucked this series for the Nuggets.

      How can you blame the players when he’s putting Wilson Fucking Chandler at center? Seriously!

      No not WP, point differential. I’m saying Denver’s regular season record is overrated. A smart analyst won’t keep calling them contenders and then bitching about George Karl every year. It’s like being surprised when Boston outperforms their regular season record in the playoffs (until this year with rondo injured). It’s a freaking recognizable pattern, you can use WP and notice that George Karl sucks at playoff coaching, so you project them to have a great record… but then flame out in the playoffs. Suddenly you look smart instead of having to explain why this happens every year. You don’t get excused for failing to look outside the box score, man up and make predictions that WP might not agree with.

    40. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Master of spin. I think it’s a very simple fix. Play your centers. Easy.

      You will argue all day that Carmelo Anthony needs three-point shooters to give him space or the option to dribble drive, yet you won’t concede that having a center, especially one as large and long as McGee, would theoretically help the perimeter players stay on the perimeter, where Golden State can bury a team.

      So centers don’t help perimeter defense? Is that what you’re saying?

      Not terrible defensive centers. That’s the problem with the whole argument. Yes Denver would benefit a lot from being able to play legit defensive 7 footers. It’s a shame they don’t have any.

    41. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: No not WP, point differential. I’m saying Denver’s regular season record is overrated. A smart analyst won’t keep calling them contenders and then bitching about George Karl every year. It’s like being surprised when Boston outperforms their regular season record in the playoffs (until this year with rondo injured). It’s a freaking recognizable pattern, you can use WP and notice that George Karl sucks at playoff coaching, so you project them to have a great record… but then flame out in the playoffs. Suddenly you look smart instead of having to explain why this happens every year. You don’t get excused for failing to look outside the box score, man up and make predictions that WP might not agree with.

      Their pythagorean expectation is 55 wins. So yeah, they’re overrated.

      Also, McGee and Koufos played a combined 28 minutes in game 2.

    42. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: Not terrible defensive centers. That’s the problem with the whole argument. Yes Denver would benefit a lot from being able to play legit defensive 7 footers. It’s a shame they don’t have any.

      So you’re telling me that it’s better to have Faried at center than a bad defensive center? Are you really making this argument? I love Faried, but he’s 6’6″. (He played something like 20% of his minutes at center this year.) It’s better to, in the playoffs, start playing small lineups that you’ve rarely used in the regular season? How is this defensible?

    43. Douglas

      I think Karl put Wilson Chandler at the 5 because he thought Chandler could hedge higher and faster on the pick and roll.

    44. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Master of spin. I think it’s a very simple fix. Play your centers. Easy.

      You will argue all day that Carmelo Anthony needs three-point shooters to give him space or the option to dribble drive, yet you won’t concede that having a center, especially one as large and long as McGee, would theoretically help the perimeter players stay on the perimeter, where Golden State can bury a team.

      So centers don’t help perimeter defense? Is that what you’re saying?

      It depends. A big can help the perimeter defense if he has great lateral movement, is smart and understands how to position himself against screens. A Tyson Chandler, Garnett, and Kenyon Martin have those qualities.

      Neither Faried nor McGee qualify there. If you pull those two outside of the paint you’re going to have a layup line behind them because they can’t contain penetration.

      In fact, they’re both likely to go under screens and rotate more slowly to shooters, leaving more space for the Warriors to make shots.

      It’s called a screen. WP does not talk about screens but if you ever get a chance to watch a game it’s where the offensive player blocks the guy guarding the ball so he has more room to drive or shoot.

      In terms of cost-benefit. Denver wasn’t hurt in game three by offensive rebounds by their size disadvantage in the paint. They were hurt because they couldn’t contest shots.

      McGee and Faried don’t help you contest outside shots. Guys like Brewer, Iguodola, Lawson, Chandler, they are far more capable of going over screens and rotating quickly to shooters.

      I’m sure Karl is just picking names out of a hat though.

    45. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Their pythagorean expectation is 55 wins. So yeah, they’re overrated.

      Also, McGee and Koufos played a combined 28 minutes in game 2.

      It’s not so much that he sucks at playoff coaching, it’s that the way Karl builds and coaches his team does not prepare them for postseason success relative to regular season success.

    46. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: So you’re telling me that it’s better to have Faried at center than a bad defensive center? Are you really making this argument? I love Faried, but he’s 6’6?. (He played something like 20% of his minutes at center this year.) It’s better to, in the playoffs, start playing small lineups that you’ve rarely used in the regular season? How is this defensible?

      Again that’s part of my argument, George Karl isn’t a good coach, and you know this. It’s not a new, mysterious development, George Karl plays oddball lineups all season. Last year it was Al harrington playing freaking center. Go read some Nuggets boards throughout the season, this is freaking predictable. Then people get excited when the Nuggets run some teams out at home, they get a nice record/differential, and people call them contenders and bitch about George Karl fucking up… again! Don’t go around calling them contenders then, and don’t be surprised when people laugh that your flagship team is hoping Javale McGee saves the day.

    47. ruruland

      Karl was great in Seattle with a similar team construct. The difference is that Payton was the star player he needed on both ends of the court, making both the uber-aggressive defense work, which created the offense. He doesn’t have one now.

    48. ruruland

      Juany8: Again that’s part of my argument, George Karl isn’t a good coach, and you know this. It’s not a new, mysterious development, George Karl plays oddball lineups all season. Last year it was Al harrington playing freaking center. Go read some Nuggets boards throughout the season, this is freaking predictable. Then people get excited when the Nuggets run some teams out at home, they get a nice record/differential, and people call them contenders and bitch about George Karl fucking up… again! Don’t go around calling them contenders then, and don’t be surprised when people laugh that your flagship team is hoping Javale McGee saves the day.

      Karl should get a lot of credit for all the team’s he’s helped overachieve in the regular season.

    49. DRed

      So if Karl is doing the smart thing and playing the guys best suited to containing GSW, why are they doing such a terrible job of it?

    50. Juany8

      DRed:
      So if Karl is doing the smart thing and playing the guys best suited to containing GSW, why are they doing such a terrible job of it?

      McGee and Koufos have been terrible at it too. It’s been kind of a team wide issue, which is why I don’t buy the excuse that this is all on Karl. Mark Jackson is playing some tiny ass lineups, Bogut is not playing all that much.

    51. Owen

      That’s fair.

      I also don’t understand Karl.

      But i do think there is something to what you say about home court advantage.

      That said, the Nuggets should have won this series.

      Juany8: And not David Lee? From you?

    52. jon abbey

      do Faried’s backers ever watch him play? dude makes mistakes all over the place, his successes are spectacular but so are his failures. he’s far from a polished, finished product, at least I hope so for his sake.

      GS is better without Lee, at least in this series. it was clear from the second he left hurt, GS made a run right then, almost won that one and then did win the next three.

    53. ruruland

      Owen:
      That’s fair.

      I also don’t understand Karl.

      But i do think there is something to what you say about home court advantage.

      That said, the Nuggets should have won this series.

      Owen’s back!! Rejoice!!!!

    54. ruruland

      DRed:
      So if Karl is doing the smart thing and playing the guys best suited to containing GSW, why are they doing such a terrible job of it?

      Because they aren’t good at it!!!!

      WOW

    55. ruruland

      Owen:
      Some game. I would note that Gallo was a significant loss.

      He was a monster against the Lakers in the playoff last year.

    56. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: McGee and Koufos have been terrible at it too. It’s been kind of a team wide issue, which is why I don’t buy the excuse that this is all on Karl. Mark Jackson is playing some tiny ass lineups, Bogut is not playing all that much.

      Bogut’s playing about as much as he did all season in terms of MPG. You can look up the numbers. Through the first four games, he actually played 3 more minutes per game.

      Koufos and McGee regular season: 40.5 MPG (through first 4)
      ” ” playoffs: 32.5 MPG

      If the Warriors are going to fuck around with this strategy where they play one big player (and then Festus Ezeli) all series, why shouldn’t the Nuggets exploit that like they did tonight? The Nuggets outscored the Warriors in the paint by 26. 26 points!

    57. nicos

      Is it really that surprising that a team that was 3 games under .500 on the road has struggled in the first round? They have the biggest built-in home court advantage in the league given the altitude but it disappears in the playoffs, especially when there are multiple games off and teams can get acclimated to the altitude.

    58. yellowboy90

      If you are Chris Paul and lose this series, why would you re up with LA in the off season? What can the Clips do to really get better. They have some pieces to trade and I guess they can make some S&Ts but for who?

    59. Juany8

      nicos:
      Is it really that surprising that a team that was 3 games under .500 on the road has struggled in the first round?They have the biggest built-in home court advantage in the league given the altitude but it disappears in the playoffs, especially when there are multiple games off and teams can get acclimated to the altitude.

      This is somehow lost on people even though it happens every year. Then the excuses come…

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