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Monday, September 1, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Apr 09 2013)

  • [New York Times] Louisville Wins NCAA Championship (Tue, 09 Apr 2013 05:51:55 GMT)
    Louisville won the 75th edition of the NCAA men’s basketball championship on Monday, beating Michigan 82-76 in a pulsating final in front of more than 74,000 fans at the Georgia Dome.

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: Knicks Riding Carmelo Anthony and J.R. Smith in 12-Game Streak (Tue, 09 Apr 2013 03:08:21 GMT)
    The offense of Carmelo Anthony and J. R. Smith has powered the third-longest victory run in the history of the team, whose defense has continued to be average in terms of points allowed.

  • [New York Times] Rick Pitino and Bernard King Among 2013 Hall of Fame Class (Tue, 09 Apr 2013 00:22:36 GMT)
    Joining Coach Rick Pitino and the former Knick Bernard King will be Gary Payton, the Virginia star Dawn Staley and the coaches Jerry Tarkanian, Sylvia Hatchell and Guy Lewis.

  • 68 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Apr 09 2013)

    1. er

      So did anyone else see Luke Hancock do the Knicks “3 to the dome” celebration after threes? Gave me goosebumps lol. Knicks are big time

    2. danvt

      A great time to be a Knicks fan.

      I used to watch Bernard King’s Knicks on a little black and white tv with a broken antennae and then compute his scoring average after each game.

      My friends and I came back from a school trip, walked up to the box office, purchased tickets, and were there on April 20th, 1983 to watch NYK beat the Nets 118-107 in the opening round of the playoffs. I’ll never forget the explosion of the crowd when that first layup went in.

      So, that’s Bernard. Check the avatar, Baby! Maybe my favorite athlete of all time. No brainer Hall of famer. Ask Larry Bird. Ask anybody. Congratulations.

    3. danvt

      er:
      So did anyone else see Luke Hancock do the Knicks “3 to the dome” celebration after threes? Gave me goosebumps lol. Knicks are big time

      I did notice that.

    4. danvt

      So, is there any evidence that we didn’t get MIA’s best shot this year?
      I mean, other than the last game where it was obvious? Is there any dial they’re going to turn up and all of a sudden we’ll seem overmatched?

      I think, MIA’s strategy after clinching was diabolical and worked perfect against SAS but backfired against us. I was as terrified watching that last Heat game as I have been all season, just thinking about the psychological damage it would do to the troops to see that LBJ/Wade don’t even have to play for them to win. Coach Popovich was furious with his team and called them out in an interview, even after the win at ATL. He said they haven’t been playing well and it was clear that the loss to MIA was on his mind. But Carmelo responded with FIFTY and we won by ten. That sends a clear message. Get your asses out on the court, guys. You got next, and maybe you have something to think about right now.

    5. jon abbey

      Melo with the best selling jersey in the league since November, first time he has led the league. Ronnie Brewer’s ranking was not available at press time. :)

    6. Count de Pennies

      jon abbey:
      Melo with the best selling jersey in the league since November, first time he has led the league. Ronnie Brewer’s ranking was not available at press time. :)

      According to Kevin Durant’s own internal tally, there have been 12,457 sales of Durant jerseys in that same time period.

    7. yellowboy90

      jon abbey:
      Melo with the best selling jersey in the league since November, first time he has led the league. Ronnie Brewer’s ranking was not available at press time. :)

      What’s the beef with Brewer. Why do people bring him up when talking about Melo?

    8. cgreene

      I listened to the Woodson interview on the SAS show yesterday and (although SAS – who normally I don’t mind – sounded like blithering idiot who constantly interrupts his guests) I really liked Woodson talking about the Knicks as a desperate team to win a title. He was insinuating that he knows that this team has a limited window that they know it and there is not stopping. Also he insinuated that he thought he got screwed in ATL by moving too slowly with the team’s gradual improvement. I really thought his mindset was great and on point. Makes you feel that there will be no first round let down… unless of course the old injury bug comes back to bite us.

    9. thenamestsam

      jon abbey:
      Melo with the best selling jersey in the league since November, first time he has led the league. Ronnie Brewer’s ranking was not available at press time. :)

      Those stats are based on a pretty limited sample though. According to Howard Beck they only count the NBA Store (the one in Manhattan) and NBA.com. Nothing from any other retail locations. I have to imagine that’s a fairly small percentage of overall jersey sales. Anyway it’s pretty cool.

      Also Tyson apparently is doubtful for tonight’s game. Really hate to hear that. Hopefully they’re just being cautious because some kind of set back could really hurt us in the long run even if we haven’t exactly been getting vintage Tyson for the most part.

    10. Frank O.

      I’ve been sick for more than a week, but been lurking.
      What a great run!
      But I have to believe that a huge part of this great run is the more efficient play of our guards.
      Melo’s play has been superior, certainly. But with Felton taking fewer bad shots or dribbling the clock away, JR attacking the rim and more sparingly jacking from 20 ft and beyond, smaller but important doses of Kidd, and getting Prigioni more time, the flow improved, isolations are less necessary, and Melo isn’t forced to try to get tough points late in the shot clock. Last, Shump has improved a lot in recent weeks. His 3s are reliable and he’s moving the ball well.
      Defense hasn’t improved much, maybe a bit more like the 18-5 run, but the offensive flow is off the charts.
      Smooth guard play is huge for this team and unburdens Melo, allowing him to be who he is: a blunt force, cold-blooded scorer.

    11. Shad0wF0x

      Did anyone else see a bit of the Knicks offense in Louisville last night? They were running a high pick and roll on the right side for a lot of the 2nd half with Siva/Dieng (Felton/Chandler or Martin) with Smith playing the role of J.R. on right corner. Hancock playing the Novak/Copeland role in the left corner or wing.

    12. Frank O.

      cgreene:
      I listened to the Woodson interview on the SAS show yesterday and (although SAS – who normally I don’t mind – sounded like blithering idiot who constantly interrupts his guests) I really liked Woodson talking about the Knicks as a desperate team to win a title.He was insinuating that he knows that this team has a limited window that they know it and there is not stopping.Also he insinuated that he thought he got screwed in ATL by moving too slowly with the team’s gradual improvement.I really thought his mindset was great and on point.Makes you feel that there will be no first round let down… unless of course the old injury bug comes back to bite us.

      The Knicks were built to be dangerous in the playoffs. One thing this streak may do is give the knicks a chance to get some rest for Chandler, Martin, and keep Kidd fresh. Look for the Knicks to bury some of these last few teams early and rest their core in the 4th.
      …at least they should.
      You know, this team reminds me of the late Olajuwan Rockets. They always had a decent record, but they finished as an elite team. The Knicks are playing with an urgency late in the season we haven’t seen in a very long time.

    13. johnlocke

      So I took a couple days off from work and went out with some friends in the Meatpacking district after the college championship game last night. Who did we see in the club with us, having a grand old time, but Mr. J.R. Smith. My head hurts, and if we see an efficient JR tonight I will be extremely impressed. It’ll be interesting watching him, haha.

      flossy:
      Obviously Melo and JR are ballin’ out of control….

      http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/40588/prigionis-historic-stretch-as-starting-pg

    14. Keniman Shumpwalker

      yellowboy90:

      It’s a not-so-subtle dig on the Berri-ites who post hear. WoW tells us that Ronnie Brewer has produced more wins this season for the Knicks than Melo has.

    15. DRed

      Keniman Shumpwalker: It’s a not-so-subtle dig on the Berri-ites who post hear. WoW tells us that Ronnie Brewer has produced more wins this season for the Knicks than Melo has.

      It really doesn’t, but I guess that ruins the jokes.

    16. Frank

      btw sounds like Tyson is out again with worsened neck symptoms — we really need to shut him down. Play Copeland/Novak at center and double like crazy if necessary in the post — then watch Okafor or Nene try to guard them on the other end.

    17. Keniman Shumpwalker

      DRed: It really doesn’t, but I guess that ruins the jokes.

      Well, you’re right in that I didn’t word it properly. It should have been more like, “Ronnie Brewer has produced more wins per/48 minutes played than Melo has”…but that definitely ruins the joke and obscures the point: it’s a flawed (albeit useful, at times) metric that tells us that Ronnie Brewer contributes more to the winning cause than Carmelo Anthony does.

    18. ruruland

      Where you see that neck has worsened? Quite sure it’s to avoid it from worsening. Martin will play tonight, so it’s a precaution. Knicks should beat Wizards ( I know they’re pretty good now) without Tyson.

      Apropos of nothing, my interview with Dean Oliver is scheduled for Thursday afternoon. I feel like since this interview is primarily for this site, members should have opportunity to have any question they want considered by me to ask him, that includes Jowles and Owen.

      Some of you have already provided good ones. If you think of more, shoot, and for those who haven’t chimed in, do.

    19. DRed

      Keniman Shumpwalker: Well, you’re right in that I didn’t word it properly. It should have been more like, “Ronnie Brewer has produced more wins per/48 minutes played than Melo has”…but that definitely ruins the joke and obscures the point: it’s a flawed (albeit useful, at times) metric that tells us that Ronnie Brewer contributes more to the winning cause than Carmelo Anthony does.

      Ronnie Brewer was awesome at the start of the year. As he started to suck, he started to play less, which means his stats are going to be weighted towards the period where he was playing well. By the time he left the Knicks, Brewer was an awful player. Maybe he was hurt. Maybe he hates Mike Woodson, or living in NY, or something else, but it was clear he shouldn’t have been playing. Nobody thinks that you should only look to wins produced to decide which players should be playing. I think WP is a useful stat, but I didn’t think Ronnie Brewer should be getting big minutes when we traded him because he has a higher WP/48 than Carmelo Anthony.

    20. ruruland

      DRed: Yeah, you’re missing that Carmelo doesn’t always play power forward.You’re also missing that Ronnie Brewer doesn’t play for the Knicks anymore.

      That’s the whole point. Brewer is more valuable to the Knicks thus season than Melo playing 1600 fewer minutes, not being guarded half the time he’s on the court, rebounding less, assisting less and shooting dramatically worse from the field.

      The enhanced WP has chosen to list Melo as PF. It’s the site and Berris metric, thus it’s their problem. Berri-ites are the ones who take it as gospel, so they should have no issue with the comparison.

      Can’t wait to hear what Dean thinks about it.

    21. d-mar

      Frank O.:
      I’ve been sick for more than a week, but been lurking.
      What a great run!
      But I have to believe that a huge part of this great run is the more efficient play of our guards.
      Melo’s play has been superior, certainly. But with Felton taking fewer bad shots or dribbling the clock away, JR attacking the rim and more sparingly jacking from 20 ft and beyond, smaller but important doses of Kidd, and getting Prigioni more time, the flow improved, isolations are less necessary, and Melo isn’t forced to try to get tough points late in the shot clock. Last, Shump has improved a lot in recent weeks. His 3s are reliable and he’s moving the ball well.
      Defense hasn’t improved much, maybe a bit more like the 18-5 run, but the offensive flow is off the charts.
      Smooth guard play is huge for this team and unburdens Melo, allowing him to be who he is: a blunt force, cold-blooded scorer.

      During the 12 game winning streak, Felton has a grand total of 18 turnovers. That’s pretty damn good, he doesn’t get enough credit for not making dumb passes or getting stripped by quicker guards. If the man could shoot, he’d be one of the top PG’s in the league.

    22. ruruland

      DRed: Ronnie Brewer was awesome at the start of the year.As he started to suck, he started to play less, which means his stats are going to be weighted towards the period where he was playing well.By the time he left the Knicks, Brewer was an awful player.Maybe he was hurt.Maybe he hates Mike Woodson, or living in NY, or something else, but it was clear he shouldn’t have been playing.Nobody thinks that you should only look to wins produced to decide which players should be playing.I think WP is a useful stat, but I didn’t think Ronnie Brewer should be getting big minutes when we traded him because he has a higher WP/48 than Carmelo Anthony.

      You think WP is a usefull stat when it shows that Carmelo Anthony is a bad NBA player who could be replaced by guys like Fields and Brewer (the list goes on and on) and the Knicks would be sitting near 55 wins going for 60 instead of where they are?

      Are Tyson Chandler and Jason Kidd literally responsible for like 70 percent of the Knicks wins? Why so much success without them when they’re replaced with far statistically inferior players like Martin and Iman Shumpert?

    23. Keniman Shumpwalker

      DRed: Ronnie Brewer was awesome at the start of the year.As he started to suck, he started to play less, which means his stats are going to be weighted towards the period where he was playing well.By the time he left the Knicks, Brewer was an awful player.Maybe he was hurt.Maybe he hates Mike Woodson, or living in NY, or something else, but it was clear he shouldn’t have been playing.Nobody thinks that you should only look to wins produced to decide which players should be playing.I think WP is a useful stat, but I didn’t think Ronnie Brewer should be getting big minutes when we traded him because he has a higher WP/48 than Carmelo Anthony.

      I understand all of that. And, like I said, I believe there is some useful information to be gleaned from a metric that takes great pains to measure efficiency. I think the dig is towards the Berri-ites who DO believe that player’s of Ronnie Brewer’s ilk (when he is playing at all, playing well, not hurt, etc) are more valuable basketball players and increase their team’s chances of winning any given game more so than a high-volume, relatively inefficient scorer of Melo’s ilk. As I said in a post yesterday, I am one who believes that basketball is far too complex to boil down individual performance and value absolutely to an efficiency stat and I disagree with anyone who believes that they can do just that.

    24. DRed

      ruruland: You think WP is a usefull stat when it shows that Carmelo Anthony is a bad NBA player who could be replaced by guys like Fields and Brewer (the list goes on and on) and the Knicks would be sitting near 55 wins going for 60 instead of where they are?

      Are Tyson Chandler and Jason Kidd literally responsible for like 70 percent of the Knicks wins? Why so much success without them when they’re replaced with far statistically inferior players like Martin and Iman Shumpert?

      By WP Carmelo has generally been an above average NBA player for his Knicks career, which is all I really care about. I don’t think Carmelo is a bad NBA player. I think he misses too often and he makes way too much money.

    25. jon abbey

      DRed: Yeah, you’re missing that Carmelo doesn’t always play power forward.You’re also missing that Ronnie Brewer doesn’t play for the Knicks anymore.

      and you’re missing that Melo has been 100 times more valuable for NY this year than Brewer was, so that it’s anywhere close is laughable. which is why we’re laughing…

    26. Nick C.

      Ruru: if it has not been posed ask whether measures that can be (so we are told) accurate barometers of wins on a team level, e.g. reb, TO, EF% can then be parceled out individually. I hope I worded that coherently.

    27. lavor postell

      I sincerely want to say fuck Louisville. I tried drinking until I couldn’t feel feelings anymore and now I’m paying for that choice. Also let’s hope jr didn’t pop too many bottles last night.

    28. Nick C.

      Another question, since it comes up (assuming there are) why the positional adjustments and are they across the board or only for rebounding? If there are how do the positions get sorted out for swingmen and G or F? ie: Is Felton the PG or is Prigioni or Kidd (both shoot less than Felton)? If Shump and JR are playing together who is the SF and who is the SG. of course the Melo/Brewer conundrum?

    29. Keniman Shumpwalker

      Ooph. Michigan alum, huh? Must’ve been a rough night. I have some Cuse alums on my rec league team and they had a rough few days, so at least there’s that. I didn’t have a rooting interest in this one but I had Michigan winning in my bracket and I still have an affinity for them from the Fab 5 days so I was disappointed. Hopefully the Knicks clinching the Atlantic tonight can ease the pain a bit. Also, seriously, Luke Fucking Hancock? He looks like a botched clone of Kevin Love.

    30. lavor postell

      Yeah screw Luke footpenis. Knicks clinching tonight would be a fairly sweet consolation.

    31. chrisk06811

      Best thing about this winning streak is we aren’t all over each other on here bitching about how we let jeffires and jorts slip away last summer.

    32. Keniman Shumpwalker

      chrisk06811:
      Best thing about this winning streak is we aren’t all over each other on here bitching about how we let jeffires and jorts slip away last summer.

      I still have a man-crush on Jorts. I want to hunt wild boar with him and discuss the finer points of ‘stache growery.

    33. johnlocke

      Finally getting some love from Stephen A. Nice quote from Melo:

      “I’ve told you several times, I believe in this team,” Melo told me recently. “I believe in our talent. Our commitment. But we believe in each other, and that’s the most important thing. We know what our goals are, what we intend to do. But even though we know how tough it’ll be, there’s no doubt in our mind that we can pull it off.”

    34. d-mar

      Things are too good right now, but I’m a Knicks fan, what bad news should I expect before the playoffs start?

    35. DRed

      d-mar:
      Things are too good right now, but I’m a Knicks fan, what bad news should I expect before the playoffs start?

      Carmelo has rededicated himself to his spirituality and is not eating until after the finals. Tyson Chandler needs to get all the vertebrae in his neck removed. Ray Felton’s Big House of BBQ opens tomorrow night.

    36. Hubert Davis

      I wonder how Zach Lowe feels knowing he is infinitely smarter about basketball than his boss? And how much better would that NBA show be if it had him on it instead of BS?

      Anyway, another excellent article from him today, which I only point out because he posits that Mike Woodson may actually be at the vanguard of new defensive strategies:

      Ask coaches what the next logical step in the evolution of defense might be — the counter to the counter, so to speak — and many of them will suggest an uptick in switching, both on and off the ball. There is almost a reflex distaste for switching, among both coaches and fans; it just looks so obviously stupid to voluntarily get yourself into a situation in which Kevin Durant is posting up Ty Lawson. But switching can be a natural antidote to offenses designed specifically to bait defenses into help contortions and uncomfortable rotations; defenses that switch everything can avoid overhelping and/or sending two defenders to contain one player — or at least avoid such compromising moves until late in the shot clock.

      In the last week, the Knicks have unveiled a switch I don’t ever recall seeing in the last five years or so as part of a consistent and coordinated scheme. Watch in the below clips as the player guarding the shooter in the corner jumps out to stop a ball handler, while the guy guarding the ball handler darts immediately to the corner shooter:

      http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9149381/packing-paint-nba-defensive-strategy-forcing-coaches-rethink-their-offense

    37. johnno

      DRed: Carmelo is a bad NBA player.

      Well, that’s right charitable of you…
      By the way, are we taking bets on where he falls in the ESPN ranking going on right now?

      Keniman Shumpwalker: I still have a man-crush on Jorts.

      The good news is that he is not signed by anyone right now (he’s playing in Puerto Rico) so the Knicks can sign him in the offseason…

    38. johnlocke

      just think HEALTHY thoughts…

      d-mar:
      Things are too good right now, but I’m a Knicks fan, what bad news should I expect before the playoffs start?

    39. johnno

      johnno: Carmelo is a bad NBA player.
      Well, that’s right charitable of you…

      In fairness, I misquoted — DRed said that he WASN’T saying that Melo is a bad player. But still…

    40. yellowboy90

      Hubert Davis:
      I wonder how Zach Lowe feels knowing he is infinitely smarter about basketball than his boss?And how much better would that NBA show be if it had him on it instead of BS?

      Anyway, another excellent article from him today, which I only point out because he posits that Mike Woodson may actually be at the vanguard of new defensive strategies:

      Ask coaches what the next logical step in the evolution of defense might be — the counter to the counter, so to speak — and many of them will suggest an uptick in switching, both on and off the ball. There is almost a reflex distaste for switching, among both coaches and fans; it just looks so obviously stupid to voluntarily get yourself into a situation in which Kevin Durant is posting up Ty Lawson. But switching can be a natural antidote to offenses designed specifically to bait defenses into help contortions and uncomfortable rotations; defenses that switch everything can avoid overhelping and/or sending two defenders to contain one player — or at least avoid such compromising moves until late in the shot clock.

      In the last week, the Knicks have unveiled a switch I don’t ever recall seeing in the last five years or so as part of a consistent and coordinated scheme. Watch in the below clips as the player guarding the shooter in the corner jumps out to stop a ball handler, while the guy guarding the ball handler darts immediately to the corner shooter:

      http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9149381/packing-paint-nba-defensive-strategy-forcing-coaches-rethink-their-offense

      I’ve notice them do that for a while now maybe since the start or close to it. There are times when the Knicks switching are so suffocating and then there are other…

    41. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I wonder what ruruland’s conversation with Dean Oliver is going to be like if Oliver shuts him down on the usage/efficiency debate, or any number of other tenuous Carmelo topics.

      “Wait, Dean: Do you even watch the games? Well, I do, and…”

    42. nicos

      DRed: Ronnie Brewer was awesome at the start of the year.

      No, he was never “awesome”. His TS for the month of November (by far his best month) was .537. He shot threes well and got to the offensive glass and didn’t turn the ball over. But, and this is a huge but- even when he was hitting threes teams cheated off of him all of the time meaning other than the possessions where he hit a three or grabbed an offensive rebound or had an assist (he averaged about one of each per game in 22.7 mpg in November) he was a drag on the offense. And his defense was never at the level it was in Chicago though he get a steal a game. I’m not saying he was bad- he was solid but hardly spectacular. Also, he played 340.5 minutes in November and 371 minutes after that with a TS% of .345 so the “most of his minutes came when he was playing well” argument falls flat as well. You want to make a case that Brewer’s WP is an outlier and that the statistic is still valid, fine. But there’s no getting around the fact that the idea that he’s contributed more wins to the Knicks this season is completely ridiculous.

    43. mokers

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      I wonder what ruruland’s conversation with Dean Oliver is going to be like if Oliver shuts him down on the usage/efficiency debate, or any number of other tenuous Carmelo topics.

      “Wait, Dean: Do you even watch the games? Well, I do, and…”

      We can make fun of the guy for his argument style, his optimism and his even his manlove for Carmelo, but I think we should still give him props for setting up an interview and asking the community here for input.

    44. Frank

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I wonder what ruruland’s conversation with Dean Oliver is going to be like if Oliver shuts him down on the usage/efficiency debate, or any number of other tenuous Carmelo topics.

      If I remember Basketball on Paper correctly, Oliver basically says that you should expect efficiency to go down as usage goes up.

      My guess is that Oliver’s responses will be far more nuanced than, say, a mystical formula that reduces someone’s value to a single number that somehow says that Ronnie Brewer was 4x more valuable to the Knicks than Melo is on a per-min basis, or that Troy Murphy was ever one of the top 20 players in the league.

      Actually I would be very interested in hearing about whether he believes what Hollinger’s formula believes, which is that there is intrinsic value to higher usage (ie. to other players on the team). It’s a real question.

    45. DRed

      Here’s a question for Dean: is it possible for a player who never shoots to be a positive contributor for a team?

    46. Frank

      mokers: We can make fun of the guy for his argument style, his optimism and his even his manlove for Carmelo, but I think we should still give him props for setting up an interview and asking the community here for input.

      not to mention he’s basically been spot on on just about everything this year.

    47. cgreene

      I actually think it is unfortunate that THCJ and Owen and frankly even Mike K have not come out to defend their perspective on WoW and the 4 factors. There is some defensible stuff there especially around turnovers at which both the Knicks and Carmelo excel that would be very interesting to debate in terms of the overall effect on the Knicks success this year and their chances in the playoffs. It’s weird that people won’t admit the obvious flaws in their argument and offer new perspectives and data points to lay on top of their existing beliefs to expand on the stuff advanced stats stuff that has been done.

    48. ruruland

      Frank: If I remember Basketball on Paper correctly, Oliver basically says that you should expect efficiency to go down as usage goes up.

      My guess is that Oliver’s responses will be far more nuanced than, say, a mystical formula that reduces someone’s value to a single number that somehow says that Ronnie Brewer was 4x more valuable to the Knicks than Melo is on a per-min basis, or that Troy Murphy was ever one of the top 20 players in the league.

      Actually I would be very interested in hearing about whether he believes what Hollinger’s formula believes, which is that there is intrinsic value to higher usage (ie. to other players on the team).It’s a real question.

      Called the skills curve.

    49. ruruland

      DRed:
      Here’s a question for Dean: is it possible for a player who never shoots to be a positive contributor for a team?

      Ok.

    50. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      I wonder what ruruland’s conversation with Dean Oliver is going to be like if Oliver shuts him down on the usage/efficiency debate, or any number of other tenuous Carmelo topics.

      “Wait, Dean: Do you even watch the games? Well, I do, and…”

      You really haven’t read much of his work, have you?

    51. ruruland

      mokers: We can make fun of the guy for his argument style, his optimism and his even his manlove for Carmelo, but I think we should still give him props for setting up an interview and asking the community here for input.

      I actually think my argument style works pretty well. What is funny about it? Too confrontational?

    52. ruruland

      Hubert Davis:
      I wonder how Zach Lowe feels knowing he is infinitely smarter about basketball than his boss?And how much better would that NBA show be if it had him on it instead of BS?

      Anyway, another excellent article from him today, which I only point out because he posits that Mike Woodson may actually be at the vanguard of new defensive strategies:

      Ask coaches what the next logical step in the evolution of defense might be — the counter to the counter, so to speak — and many of them will suggest an uptick in switching, both on and off the ball. There is almost a reflex distaste for switching, among both coaches and fans; it just looks so obviously stupid to voluntarily get yourself into a situation in which Kevin Durant is posting up Ty Lawson. But switching can be a natural antidote to offenses designed specifically to bait defenses into help contortions and uncomfortable rotations; defenses that switch everything can avoid overhelping and/or sending two defenders to contain one player — or at least avoid such compromising moves until late in the shot clock.

      In the last week, the Knicks have unveiled a switch I don’t ever recall seeing in the last five years or so as part of a consistent and coordinated scheme. Watch in the below clips as the player guarding the shooter in the corner jumps out to stop a ball handler, while the guy guarding the ball handler darts immediately to the corner shooter:

      http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9149381/packing-paint-nba-defensive-strategy-forcing-coaches-rethink-their-offense

      Great stuff.

    53. ruruland

      Nick C.:
      Ruru: if it has not been posed ask whether measures that can be (so we are told) accurate barometers of wins on a team level, e.g. reb, TO, EF% can then be parceled out individually. I hope I worded that coherently.

      Yeah, I’m going to ask specifically about WP/WS/ PoP et al….

    54. DRed

      ruruland: I actually think my argument style works pretty well. What is funny about it? Too confrontational?

      You misrepresent people’s arguments and you can come off as a hectoring bully

    55. ruruland

      DRed: You misrepresent people’s arguments and you can come off as a hectoring bully

      Only with Owen and Jowles. I don’t think I misrepresent others’ arguments really, but if I have, I’ll try not to in the future. Sometimes I have zero patience. Maybe I shouldn’t post then.

      But again today I’m holding out the olive branch for both Jowles and Owen, as I’ve done throughout my time here, never to have it taken or reciprocated.

      Oh well.

    56. mokers

      ruruland: I actually think my argument style works pretty well. What is funny about it? Too confrontational?

      No, I believe that your argument style is great. You watch games and put in lots of research into numbers. You post your thoughts and leave it up to debate. Your arguments are always out there and I think you are open to look at any additional evidence to an argument. I was mainly stating that your willingness to be open about the interview with other readers here should be applauded, no matter what your viewpoint on the state of the Knicks would be.

      cgreene:
      I actually think it is unfortunate that THCJ and Owen and frankly even Mike K have not come out to defend their perspective on WoW and the 4 factors.There is some defensible stuff there especially around turnovers at which both the Knicks and Carmelo excel that would be very interesting to debate in terms of the overall effect on the Knicks success this year and their chances in the playoffs.It’s weird that people won’t admit the obvious flaws in their argument and offer new perspectives and data points to lay on top of their existing beliefs to expand on the stuff advanced stats stuff that has been done.

      Same here. There is a lot of stuff to learn about statistics and performance by evaluating advanced stats. Unfortunately, the WoW crowd have not been up to this task lately. If the nuggets don’t win more playoff games than the Knicks, we might not hear from them until next season.

    57. DRed

      ruruland: Only with Owen and Jowles. I don’t think I misrepresent others’ arguments really, but if I have, I’ll try not to in the future. Sometimes I have zero patience. Maybe I shouldn’t post then.
      But again today I’m holding out the olive branch for both Jowles and Owen, as I’ve done throughout my time here, never to have it taken or reciprocated.
      Oh well

      I’m sure you don’t think you misrepresent arguments, but you and a number of the other posters here consistently bash the WP crowd for arguments they don’t actually make. I’m sure you don’t think you cherrypick data to make your favorite players look better either. But you do.

    58. ruruland

      DRed: I’m sure you don’t think you misrepresent arguments, but you and a number of the other posters here consistently bash the WP crowd for arguments they don’t actually make. I’m sure you don’t think you cherrypick data to make your favorite players look better either. But you do.

      Well, I get that criticism a lot. I think I probably write too dryly, densely (why would I try to be Cavan, Bob or Kevin? They are amazing, which is often why I resist writing for the site) and redundantly for many people to truly read most of what I write, as I think I try to give some context to the “cherry picked” numbers, though if you don’t think the context I provide is valid, then yeah, some of the numbers are “cherry picked”

    59. ruruland

      mokers: No, I believe that your argument style is great. You watch games and put in lots of research into numbers. You post your thoughts and leave it up to debate. Your arguments are always out there and I think you are open to look at any additional evidence to an argument. I was mainly stating that your willingness to be open about the interview with other readers here should be applauded, no matter what your viewpoint on the state of the Knicks would be.

      Same here. There is a lot of stuff to learn about statistics and performance by evaluating advanced stats. Unfortunately, the WoW crowd have not been up to this task lately. If the nuggets don’t win more playoff games than the Knicks, we might not hear from them until next season.

      Thanks and I agree.

      The thing that bothers me the most, as you know, is their need to define themselves as Knicks fans when they openly root against the team succeeding and the deny that they do.

      That drives me up the wall, just because it’s so disingenuous. That’s probably when I go way overboard.

    60. DRed

      ruruland: Well, I get that criticism a lot. I think I probably write too dryly, densely (why would I try to be Cavan, Bob or Kevin? They are amazing, which is often why I resist writing for the site) and redundantly for many people to truly read most of what I write, as I think I try to give some context to the “cherry picked” numbers, though if you don’t think the context I provide is valid, then yeah, some of the numbers are “cherry picked”

      It might be the result of your cockeyed optimism, but you never seem to see the negatives about players you like, or you briefly acknowldege them but explain them away (“I didn’t think jr would be shooting off the dribble so much”) dismissively

    61. ruruland

      DRed:

      But even take J.R. I mean, it is true that when he’s off the ball he’s far more efficient (prior to his discovering the dribble drive). That’s simply a fact.

      Was it incorrect for me to think Woodson would play him on the ball as much as he has? Maybe. Did he foresee that J.R. would eventually understand that need to get to the rim if he gave him free reign? He surely saw more of him in practice more of the ability to get to the rim, than anyone else saw in him or that he demonstrated through his career, to know that he had this latent ability.

      I honestly feel that if Amar’e had been healthy all year, he would be starting by now, and J.R.’s usage would be reduced and he would be playing much more off a central offensive player where he’s always been very efficient.

      So yeah, I think each of these is case by case.

      Also, it’s interesting to that you say that I’m a “cockeyed optimist” when I’ve so often been correct, even when things were at their worst, I never gave ground. That goes back to last year, too.

      Maybe I look like a cockeyed optimist juxtaposed with so many groveling pessimists, idk .

    62. DRed

      See, there you go again. You thought JR would be one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. He’s been below average. That’s really wrong. That’s cut and dried. You thought Amare would average 30 minutes a game. He barely played.

      Its interesting that the knicks are still going to win as many games as you thought they would, but they’re not winning them the way you predicted. You’re sort of right, but you also got plenty wrong as well, and you just don’t seem to be able to accept it.

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