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Saturday, August 2, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Sep 20 2012)

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: After Lending His Style to a Bus, Frazier Offers His Opinion on the Knicks (Thu, 20 Sep 2012 03:50:46 GMT)
    Walt Frazier was greeted by a dozen or so fans while being honored by a sightseeing bus company. He also spoke about the Knicks and their coming season.

  • [New York Daily News] Garden’s reach night grow in Brooklyn (Thu, 20 Sep 2012 02:16:47 GMT)
    THE SALE OF an entertainment business empire won’t affect its partnership with the Barclays Center, according to CEO Brett Yormark, even as one expert identified rival Madison Square Garden as the ideal buyer.

  • 26 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Sep 20 2012)

    1. massive

      The Celtics just signed Darko Milicic to a one year deal. I hope he plays 2,000 minutes for them this season.

    2. ess-dog

      That was a nice article. Hopefully Kidd will help with JR (drunken driving aside) and mentor him on the court. Between Melo, JR and Stat, those guys should take about 45-50 shots a night. The rest will be Kidd/Novak three-pointers and Chandler put-backs.

    3. ruruland

      thenamestsam: Fascinating stuff on J.R. Smith:http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8396297/page/2/is-new-york-knicks-shooting-guard-jr-smith-misguided-just-misunderstoodDefinitely a must read.

      Very good piece. Accurate.

      Karl and Scott were extremely bad personality fits.

      Hochman still a hack: “Every October, I wrote the same feature story: ‘Is this the year J.R. turns it around and grows up?’” said Benjamin Hochman, the Nuggets beat writer for the Denver Post who also covered Smith in New Orleans. “You get J.R. talking about how he’s matured and George Karl saying how he hopes J.R. will play more defense and be part of a system. Every year, J.R. would not mature and not grow as a player or as a person.”

    4. Brian Cronin

      Anyone think Michael Redd is worth a look?

      He looked done-r than done last season, but I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to bringing him into training camp to see if it is one of those “needs a full year to full come back” type of injuries.

    5. ruruland

      This: “J.R. Smith is clear about the best and worst parts of his time in Denver. The highs? The fans. The lows? “The coaching. I think if our coaching would have brought us together more, we would have had more success.”

    6. Brian Cronin

      All kidding aside, I thought that the piece had a lot of interesting quotes and it also did a good job placing Smith’s career into the context of past high school players, of which Smith has clearly outperformed most of them, but when it came to the major criticisms, it was all stuff that we could have written ourselves without even getting the quotes, as we all know before reading the piece that Smith’s coaches are going to blame him and Smith and his dad are going to blame the coaches (by the way, the whole notion of asking Smith’s dad about criticism of Smith was so weird. What do you expect the guy to say? It’s his kid!).

      So I did not like that aspect of the article that much.

      Also, I did not like the usage of Hochman, in that he is presented as if he is impartial when he clearly is not (and never has been) when it comes to Smith.

    7. ruruland

      ess-dog: That was a nice article. Hopefully Kidd will help with JR (drunken driving aside) and mentor him on the court. Between Melo, JR and Stat, those guys should take about 45-50 shots a night. The rest will be Kidd/Novak three-pointers and Chandler put-backs.

      fwiw, Smith averages 7.3 3 pt fga per 36 in his career. Novak, 8.9.

      Ray Allen: career 5.8 3pt per 36

      Reggie Miller: career 4.9

      No duo in NBA history that I have come across comes close in terms of 3pta per minute. Really nothing that is remotely comparable, certainly not at their percentages.

      So when folks talk about the Knicks improving their 3pt percentage from last year, it’s not really because Kidd/Felton/Brewer are improvements from last season (at least not dramatic), or that Melo will shoot better because he’ll be off-ball more, it’s that Smith and Novak should be getting +40 minutes combined.

      They’re a combined 40% career shooters, and they’re ridiculously high-volume. Nothing else like that in the league.

    8. knicknyk

      ruruland: fwiw, Smith averages 7.3 3 pt fga per 36 in his career. Novak, 8.9.

      Ray Allen: career 5.8 3pt per 36

      Reggie Miller: career 4.9

      No duo in NBA history that I have come across comes close in terms of 3pta per minute. Really nothing that is remotely comparable, certainly not at their percentages.

      So when folks talk about the Knicks improving their 3pt percentage from last year, it’s not really because Kidd/Felton/Brewer are improvements from last season (at least not dramatic), or that Melo will shoot better because he’ll be off-ball more, it’s that Smith and Novak should be getting +40 minutes combined.

      They’re a combined 40% career shooters, and they’re ridiculously high-volume. Nothing else like that in the league.

      How are JR & Novak going to get 40 minutes of playing time? With the amount of depth we have I doubt Novak plays that many minutes to be honest.

    9. DDH

      Brian Cronin:
      …(by the way, the whole notion of asking Smith’s dad about criticism of Smith was so weird. What do you expect the guy to say? It’s his kid!).

      Also, I did not like the usage of Hochman, in that he is presented as if he is impartial when he clearly is not (and never has been) when it comes to Smith.

      The Hochman thing was pretty circular, too. Using the Denver Post headlines, then adding Hochman’s quotes like he was confirmation of the “everyone keeps waiting for J.R. to grow up but it never happens” story. Except the headlines were from Hochman’s stories. The hypothetical/speculative newspaper article which creates the news, as opposed to covers or reports it, is so frustrating too. Of course Hochman would get the same thing every year — J.R. saying he’s matured, Karl hoping — if he asks the same question every year.

      As far as J.R.’s dad though, I think the point was beyond just getting his thoughts or side of the story; it seemed a little more, I don’t know, judgmental than that. Earl II is introduced as an attitude problem player who complained in college about not starting then quit, then the question is posed as to why J.R. didn’t learn from the great b-ball coaches he’s been around, then that is followed up with J.R.’s dad giving him unrepentant, subversive advice that J.R. took (“He’s going to yank you anyway, just shoot!”). Not to mention the quote about teaching defense last. Seems like the story is very much about Smith’s dad as a negative b-ball influence, not so much a balancing opinion against the J.R. criticisms.

    10. Brian Cronin

      I think there’s definitely an article that could be written where you could take that angle regarding Smith’s father, but I do not believe that was what Abrams wrote. He never seemed to touch on that angle. Smith’s father’s quotes were presented without analysis. Could you argue that the presentation of the quotes was sort of a subversive attempt by Abrams to comment on the quotes without actually commenting on the quotes? Perhaps, but if that was the case, I’d appreciate it even less, as if Abrams has an issue with the quotes, he should just say so.

      But yeah, the circular aspect of the Hochman stuff was pretty darn silly. “The fact that the headlines keep asking the same questions must mean something’ says the guy about the headlines to his own articles. ‘I must be right, look it says so in this article I wrote.’”

    11. ruruland

      knicknyk: How are JR & Novak going to get 40 minutes of playing time? With the amount of depth we have I doubt Novak plays that many minutes to be honest.

      Combined. Smith is getting at least 25 minutes even when everyone is healthy .

    12. ruruland

      I think there was a semblance of balance, and it’s very difficult to tell a JR Smith story without his father, who has his own issues that this story didn’t mention.

      It’s not a Pullitzer, but it’s a solid piece and basically accurate.

      The self-referential Hochman is a failed comedian who inserts himself into his writing as if he’s under the impression people like it. He’s literally a failed comedian. Those are more cosmetic flaws with his writing. he’s an awful reporter.

      I don’t think he’s ever broken a story. He’s not respectedenough by the F.O. to be their primary mouthpiece, even though he’d do about anything to p.r. for them. DP had to hire the jounalism mercenary Thomas George to write the 2006 locker room “expose”.

      There were so many interesting stories and locker room dynamics that he simply never alluded to or perhaps picked up on.

      It’s sad that no one really told the story of the 2009 team or the way the team disintegrated after Karl’s cancer diagnoses (Adrian Dantley is a terrible NBA coach_

      He’s a Karl puppet who doesn’t work very hard and certainly lacks the courage, instincts and smarts to be a proffesional NBA beat reporter, as watered down as that job has become in most markets.

      Just pathetic. And he’s biased against JR Smith because he shapes his opinion on a few conversations with George Karl, who is the anti-Jr Smith coach.

    13. knicknyk

      ruruland: Combined. Smith is getting at least 25 minutes even when everyone is healthy .

      Oh so you have Novak receiving about 15 minutes? I am not sure Novak will be playing that much. There is a ton of depth on this team. Last year he was playing 18 minutes but we had bodies falling left & right. This year assuming that we are a little more healthier I think Novak plays less than 15 minutes.

    14. Juany8

      knicknyk: Oh so you have Novak receiving about 15 minutes? I am not sure Novak will be playing that much. There is a ton of depth on this team. Last year he was playing 18 minutes but we had bodies falling left & right. This year assuming that we are a little more healthier I think Novak plays less than 15 minutes.

      I wouldn’t be so sure of this, we don’t really have a great backup SF/PF rotation right now, I wouldn’t be surprised if Novak basically backs up the 3 and 4 spots until Brewer and Shump both come back. I doubt he’ll get more than 15 minutes a game in the playoffs though, spot up shooters who can’t defend, rebound or dribble well (think Matt Bonner or Kyle Korver) tend to get exposed in the playoffs, especially against the truly elite teams.

    15. knicknyk

      Camby can play back up PF right & so can Melo. If melo and Amare are playing 36 minutes a game consistently. When Brewer gets back him & JR can play some back up SF. Camby & Melo can play back up PF. So there is a lot of depth at the two positions Novak can play. Also we aren’t going to be shooting a lot of 3′s next season. We are playing a different style of play under Woodson this year. That has to be factored in as well into the deduction of Novaks playing time.

    16. ruruland

      knicknyk:
      Camby can play back up PF right & so can Melo. If melo and Amare are playing 36 minutes a game consistently. When Brewer gets back him & JR can play some back up SF. Camby & Melo can play back up PF. So there isa lot of depth at the two positions Novak can play. Also we aren’t going to be shooting a lot of 3?s next season. We are playing a different style of play under Woodson this year. That has to be factored in as well into the deduction of Novaks playing time.

      where are you getting the idea the Knicks won’t be shooting many 3s? Because Woodson made the Olujawon thing happen?

      You’re forgetting the out in inside-out basketball.
      Not that they won’t be running a diverse offense. Novak should get between 15-20 a game, more or less depending on overall performance from he and other wings.

      Camby is not going to play much back-up PF and I highly doubt Anar’e plays 36 minutes.

      The Knicks had a six game stretch when they were healthy for Woodson last year and he used the depth, just as he will this year.

      Novak is the best 3pt shooter in the NBA, on most nights there are plenty of lineup permutations that will hide his flaws and give him opps.

      Very unlikely he becomes a DNP as you’re suggesting.

    17. ess-dog

      knicknyk:
      Camby can play back up PF right & so can Melo. If melo and Amare are playing 36 minutes a game consistently. When Brewer gets back him & JR can play some back up SF. Camby & Melo can play back up PF. So there isa lot of depth at the two positions Novak can play. Also we aren’t going to be shooting a lot of 3?s next season. We are playing a different style of play under Woodson this year. That has to be factored in as well into the deduction of Novaks playing time.

      Why would they sign him to a 4 year contract then? I think Melo will almost entirely play sf this year and Novak will come in as a stretch shooter from the 4 spot. Camby will get back up C minutes and maybe they’ll go with 2 bigs a little bit here and there. I think Smith will get closer to 30 min a game, maybe less when Shump returns. I think Brewer’s going to have to earn his minutes more than people think. Woodson trusts Shump/Smith and they are top notch athletes, and one of the three could easily back up Melo at the 3.
      The real question to me is who will get more time at pg – Kidd or Felton? Also, will it be obvious to Felton that Smith is the new 3rd scoring option or will he chuck shots like he did in early ’11?
      It’s cool that each position is well backed up this year in case anyone goes down (except maybe the 3, but I assume JR would slide down to the 3 if Melo went down.)

    18. Juany8

      knicknyk:
      Camby can play back up PF right & so can Melo. If melo and Amare are playing 36 minutes a game consistently. When Brewer gets back him & JR can play some back up SF. Camby & Melo can play back up PF. So there isa lot of depth at the two positions Novak can play. Also we aren’t going to be shooting a lot of 3?s next season. We are playing a different style of play under Woodson this year. That has to be factored in as well into the deduction of Novaks playing time.

      That’s why I think Novak won’t be playing much in the playoffs, but if Melo and Camby are backing up Stoudemire, who backs up Melo and Chandler? Who backs up JR if Brewer is the guy playing the 3? I think Woodson will find a good 12-15 minutes overall during the season, although I wouldn’t be surprised to see him out of the rotation entirely in the playoffs

    19. ruruland

      Melo would play 4 defensively, not Novak.

      Prior to Shumps return, I see Felton and Kidd averaging around 60 combined minutes.

    20. Juany8

      ruruland: where are you getting the idea the Knicks won’t be shooting many 3s? Because Woodson made the Olujawon thing happen?

      You’re forgetting the out in inside-out basketball.
      Not that they won’t be running a diverse offense. Novak should get between 15-20 a game, more or less depending on overall performance from he and other wings.

      Camby is not going to play much back-up PF and I highly doubt Anar’e plays 36 minutes.

      The Knicks had a six game stretch when they were healthy for Woodson last year and he used the depth, just as he will this year.

      Novak is the best 3pt shooter in the NBA, on most nights there are plenty of lineup permutations that will hide his flaws and give him opps.

      Very unlikely he becomes a DNP as you’re suggesting.

      I generally agree with what you say, but this whole “Novak is the best 3 point shooter in the NBA” non-sense has to stop. Bonner, Korver, and Morrow all have legitimate claims to the top as pure spot up 3 point shooters. Korver set the all time mark for percentage just 2 years ago lol, and Bonner lead the league last year with a better percentage than Novak, on Novak’s same team. And I’d take Nash and Ray Allen (and possibly Curry), who can actually create space for their own 3′s, over any of those guys, purely for spacing the floor.

    21. ruruland

      Juany8: I generally agree with what you say, but this whole “Novak is the best 3 point shooter in the NBA” non-sense has to stop. Bonner, Korver, and Morrow all have legitimate claims to the top as pure spot up 3 point shooters. Korver set the all time mark for percentage just 2 years ago lol, and Bonner lead the league last year with a better percentage than Novak, on Novak’s same team. And I’d take Nash and Ray Allen (and possibly Curry), who can actually create space for their own 3?s, over any of those guys, purely for spacing the floor.

      Of course there are great 3pt shooters who are better players then Novak and quite a few 3pt specialists who may be more valuable 3pt shooters because they can get shots off in more situations. Korver moves better off the ball and defends. Bonner threatens with occasional drive.

      But there isn’t a player in the league who’s a career 43.6 shooter who shoots almost 9 threes per 36 minutes floor time. Not close in fact.

      Novaks release is as good as there is, allowing him to make up for his other offensive flaws most of the time. But as we’ve seen however, when he can”t, he really can’t, unlike the others you mentioned.

      But On a team that can get consistent penetration, why wouldn’t you want the leagues best spot-up 3 pt shooter of the last two years?

    22. ruruland

      Juany:

      Novak has the fifth highest 3pt percentage in NBA history: .4365

      Over his career, Novak has averaged 8.9 3pt attempts per 36 minutes. In fact, two of his three his highest attempt-per-minute years came when he received 1,000 minutes or more. He averaged 10 3pt attempts per 36 minutes last season!!

      In other words, his incredibly high attempt numbers are not overly-skewed by the fact that he has often been used as a last possession shooter.

      The guy gets good shots off like no one in history has before, at least that I’m aware of.

      Take the four guys ahead of him in shooting percentage. Steve Kerr averaged 3.6 attempts per 36. Stephen Curry 5.0. Hubert Davis 3.9. Petrovic 2.7.

      What about the ten guys behind him in all-time 3pt percentage?

      Kapono 3.6, Legler 4.1, Nash 3.8, Morrow 5.3, Armstrong 2.1, Wesely Person 3.8, Gibson 5.4, Rush 4.4, Korver 6.1, Bonner 5.2, Dudley 3.5

      No one is even close. So, I was being modest in my argument. Novak may not just be the best 3pt shooter in the NBA, but in NBA history.

      Maybe he should get more than 20 mpg.

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