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Thursday, November 27, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, May 02 2013)

  • [New York Daily News] Bos-Taunt: Benched Celtics reserve jaws at Melo after Game 5 win (Thu, 02 May 2013 08:30:39 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony didn’t seek out the Celtics’ team bus when it was over, because as he admitted, combating trash talk is not really a priority for him or the slipping Knicks at the moment.    

  • [New York Daily News] Lawrence: Knicks can’t bury jumpers or the Celtics (Thu, 02 May 2013 06:34:01 GMT)
    All the Knicks came to the Garden Wednesday dressed in black. “Funeral colors,â? Kenyon Martin told the Daily News. This was their idea of being dressed for success, to bury the wounded Celtics and celebrate the franchise’s first playoff series win since 2000.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: Series has Sox appeal (Thu, 02 May 2013 06:14:52 GMT)
    The Celtics are still alive in their best-of-seven series with the Knicks. The Spirit of 2004 is back, too. With Boston winning, 92-86, Wednesday at the Garden, the Celtics not only won a second straight game after being down 3-0 to the Knicks, they are halfway to equaling the incredible comeback by their Boston baseball brethren.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks shooting star Melo fizzles again (Thu, 02 May 2013 06:14:45 GMT)
    For the first three games of the series, all was right in Carmelo Anthony’s world which, by coincidence, means everything was just fine for the Knicks as well.    

  • [New York Daily News] Isola: J.R. returns to Knicks, but jump shot does not (Thu, 02 May 2013 06:09:35 GMT)
    Black is the color traditionally worn by the villain, which in Game 6 will most certainly be J.R. Smith, who since hitting Jason Terry in the jaw with his elbow in Game 3 hasn’t hit anything else. He was more useful in his hotel room Sunday.    

  • [New York Daily News] Funeral? Celtics’ Terry is very much alive (Thu, 02 May 2013 06:03:48 GMT)
    His right thumb buried in a cup of ice, and with an orange towel wrapped around his shoulders, Celtics guard Jason Terry dipped both feet in a cooler of ice Wednesday night inside the Garden’s visitors’ locker room. “Can I get an Advil?â? Terry asked a team trainer.    

  • [New York Times] Proud Celtics Making Stand Against Knicks (Thu, 02 May 2013 10:15:38 GMT)
    It might be the last Celtics stand for the tandem of Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett but they showed their class and determination as Boston humbled the New York Knicks at Madison Square Garden on Wednesday.    

  • [New York Times] Blazers’ Lillard Named Unanimous Rookie of the Year (Thu, 02 May 2013 10:12:32 GMT)
    Portland Trail Blazers guard Damian Lillard was named the NBA Rookie of the Year on Wednesday after a breakout campaign that saw him leapfrog all first-year players.    

  • [New York Times] Durant, Thunder Struggling to Close Out Rockets (Thu, 02 May 2013 07:33:43 GMT)
    Without All-Star Russell Westbrook running the point, Kevin Durant and the Oklahoma City Thunder are struggling to close out the Houston Rockets.    

  • [New York Times] Celtics Stay Alive, Beat Knicks to Force Game 6 (Thu, 02 May 2013 07:22:11 GMT)
    The 11-0 deficit in Game 5 was wiped away. The 3-0 deficit in the series might be next.    

  • [New York Times] NBA Playoff Capsules (Thu, 02 May 2013 06:46:05 GMT)
    Kevin Garnett had 16 points and 18 rebounds and the Boston Celtics stayed alive in the NBA playoffs, cutting the New York Knicks’ lead to 3-2 with a 92-86 victory Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Harden Powers Past Illness, Lifts Rockets 107-100 (Thu, 02 May 2013 05:39:48 GMT)
    James Harden lacked the energy to get through a morning shoot-around. Then he found the strength to fill the Houston Rockets with life in a playoff series that had started to look hopeless.    

  • [New York Times] Celtics Let Knicks Know They’re Not Dead Yet (Thu, 02 May 2013 04:49:49 GMT)
    The Knicks came to Madison Square Garden to bury the Boston Celtics â?? but the Celtics came to play.    

  • [New York Times] Pacers Rebound With 106-83 Rout of Hawks in Game 5 (Thu, 02 May 2013 04:18:41 GMT)
    Frank Vogel made a few simple lineup adjustments and a strong pregame pitch. It was just what the Pacers needed Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Knicks vs. Celtics: Game 5 (Thu, 02 May 2013 04:18:06 GMT)
    The Knicks stumbled through another four quarters Wednesday night as the Celtics took a 92-86 victory, extending this first-round series for at least another two days.    

  • [New York Times] J.R. Smith Back on Court, but His Shots Are Off (Thu, 02 May 2013 03:48:33 GMT)
    J.R. Smith shot 3 of 14 after missing the Knicks’ previous game while serving a suspension for elbowing the Celtics’ Jason Terry in Game 3.    

  • [New York Times] Celtics 92, Knicks 86: Knicks Can’t Put Away Celtics in Game 5 (Thu, 02 May 2013 03:36:49 GMT)
    The Knicks lost their second straight, leaving the Celtics two victories from becoming the first team in N.B.A. history to come back from a 3-0 deficit.    

  • [New York Times] NBA Playoff Capsules (Thu, 02 May 2013 03:12:56 GMT)
    Kevin Garnett had 16 points and 18 rebounds and the Boston Celtics stayed alive in the NBA playoffs, cutting the New York Knicks’ lead to 3-2 with a 92-86 victory Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] In Nets-Bulls, It’s Not, Who’s Hurt? It’s, Who Isn’t? (Thu, 02 May 2013 02:58:56 GMT)
    On the eve of Game 6 of a back-and-forth, battering series between the Nets and the Chicago Bulls, both teams appeared to be surviving on ice, athletic tape and willpower.    

  • [New York Times] Roundup: Bucks Fire Boylan, Coach Who Led Them to Playoffs (Thu, 02 May 2013 02:47:32 GMT)
    A trip to the playoffs was not enough to save Jim Boylan’s job as coach of the Milwaukee Bucks.    

  • [New York Times] Celtics Stay Alive, Beat Knicks to Force Game 6 (Thu, 02 May 2013 02:07:16 GMT)
    Back in the series, now back to Boston.    

  • [New York Times] Zimmermann, Desmond Lead Nationals Past Braves 2-0 (Thu, 02 May 2013 01:36:53 GMT)
    Jordan Zimmermann turned in another dominant performance with two-hit ball over eight innings, Ian Desmond hit a two-run homer in the fourth and the Washington Nationals finally beat the Atlanta Braves, 2-0 Wednesday night.    

  • [New York Times] Damian Lillard Is N.B.A. Rookie of the Year (Thu, 02 May 2013 01:24:44 GMT)
    Portland Trail Blazers point guard Damian Lillard has been unanimously chosen the NBA’s Rookie of the Year.    

  • [New York Times] Nuggets, Warriors Ready for Physical Game 6 (Thu, 02 May 2013 00:24:47 GMT)
    Kicks in the ankles. Forearms to the throat. Elbows at the head. Illegal screens. Hard shoves. Bloody lips. Puffy eyes. Body bruises. Some even done by “hit men.”    

  • 277 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, May 02 2013)

    1. Zanzibar

      If we lose this series and Denver wins theirs, Cock Jowles will be struttin’ around this board like a peacock. And Nick R will be committed to Bellevue Hospital in the long-term care ward.

      A real bright spot is Shump having to step it up in light of Melo and JR’s poor play. Shump will take Kidd’s minutes next season and his rebounding prowess is an unexpected dividend. He’s showing signs he will be able to drive and finish which was his chief strength in college. What likely will prevent him from becoming a star is his complete inability to shoot off the dribble but he should still be an excellent player.

      The most remarkable part of our season close imo was not the fact that we did it without Amare and Tyson but that none of the games we won were really that close (came down to the final minute). And that remained true for the first 3 games of this series. Now we’re facing playoffs tough defense and adversity for the first time in a long time; if we survive, it will make us that much more prepared for the rest of the playoffs. I only hope that Kidd and Melo have not hit the proverbial wall.

      If we do not make it to the ECF, maybe GG should swing for the fences. It’s a long shot but here goes: Send Melo and Chandler to teams with cap space for trade exceptions. Pull a Riley and convince Paul and Howard to come to NYC. Hire Phil Jackson as coach. Given JR and Cope’s playoffs, good chance to re-sign them. We got MLE, White/Qrich/Camby tradeable contracts, and draft pick. This seems like a championship roster to me:

      Starters: Paul/Howard/Shumpert/JR/MLE
      Bench: Felton/Amare/Copeland/Novak/3-6m big from tradeable contracts

    2. Hubert Davis

      We’re not losing this series.

      There’s a chance the NBA follows up that Joey Crawford trick they pulled last night and sends the most inexperienced crew in the world to Boston Friday night to let the home crowd influence the outcome like they do in Italian soccer and Boston wins. Short of that, we’ll probably win Friday. Even with that, we won’t lose a game 7 at home.

      We gave these guys life, though, starting with JR’s elbow. And it’s going to be very difficult now.

    3. bocker84

      #1 – I would have loved to ask JR in the post-game if he felt that the Knicks could have won game 5 if he showed up… just to see his reaction.

      #2 – Is there anyone out there with a reasonable sense as to why we are forcing the iso’s to Melo more than ever when it’s clear that it isn’t working? I mean literally we have every person out in the world talking about how we suffer when we run a +10 second iso with Melo at the top… and yet we keep doing it? Are we trying to kickstart him or something? Is this what its like to pull the chain on the mower for 15 minutes before checking if there is even gas in the tank? Honestly… someone please get my mind straight around that thought.

      #3 – Fuck the Celtics. I never thought I could hate that franchise more after the game Pierce took that bow in the middle of the Garden, and when they swept us in the first round of the playoffs. I was pretty close to vomiting from sheer rage the entire night knowing that we couldn’t get our shit together enough to win.

      #4 – Seriously. Fuck. The. Celtics.

    4. maxwell_3g

      and how annoying is jason terry. i get that it is part of his job. thats fine. but then after the game, to make it about himself, rather than, KEVIN F’N GARNETT, who in my opinion showed extreme resolve in absolutely dominating our bigs last night and putting together a truly great performance. but no, terry made some 3’s (and still shot less than 50%) and cant even dribble the ball up the court against pressure, and its all about him

    5. Hubert Davis

      Here is the statistical breakdown of how crap Melo has been in this series:

      eFG% 2012/13 reg season: .502
      eFG% 2013 playoffs: .423

      TS% 2012/13 reg season: .560
      TS% 2013 playoffs: .494

      AST% 2012/13 reg season: 14.1
      AST% 2013 playoffs: 7.0

      PER 2012/13 reg season: 24.8
      PER 2013 playoffs: 19.6

      ORTG 2012/13 reg season: 112
      ORTG 2013 playoffs: 98

      It doesn’t have to be this way. The guy is stubborn as a mule.

      Oh, and if he comes out and scores 45 Friday playing the same way, that doesn’t change a thing.

      He is Boston’s only hope in this series. They can’t stop our pick and roll, they just manipulate Carmelo Anthony into not running it!

    6. Hubert Davis

      bocker84:

      #2 – Is there anyone out there with a reasonable sense as to why we are forcing the iso’s to Melo more than ever when it’s clear that it isn’t working?

      I don’t think it’s “we”. Carmelo Anthony is doing this himself.

      You can point to Woodson’s track record with ISO Joe in Atlanta, but I don’t think he went into the playoffs and said “I just had the best offensive season of my coaching career, and now I’m going to revert to something that failed in Atlanta.”

      Boston is smart and they are manipulating Melo into running this offense, just like they manipulated Kobe and almost won a 2nd championship doing it.

    7. er

      Hubert Davis: I don’t think it’s “we”. Carmelo Anthony is doing this himself. You can point to Woodson’s track record with ISO Joe in Atlanta, but I don’t think he went into the playoffs and said “I just had the best offensive season of my coaching career, and now I’m going to revert to something that failed in Atlanta.”Boston is smart and they are manipulating Melo into running this offense, just like they manipulated Kobe and almost won a 2nd championship doing it.

      fair points but check this out. The series has been different from the season in that novak and copeland dont play, which takes away from the shooting on the court. Also It cant be understated what JR has done in the last 2 games. We all know he didnt play game four, but in yesterdays game melo did his usual 1st quarter fast outta the blocks thing. JR who usually picks up the baton from there didnt make a shot until the fourth quarter. It is on woodson not to run pnr with melo as the ball handler and it is on woodson not to call plays for melo off the ball as well. However it is on melo that he favors the iso game and when his jumper is off it makes him look bad

    8. Juany8

      I have a slightly different opinion on the whole thing. I don’t think Melo is trying to be selfish and make it all about him, I think he’s pressing when his team gets down because he’s so desperate to get out of the first round and start winning playoff series. It doesn’t help that you can’t have a bad game without the whole media rushing to crucify you as a shitty player, while James harden craps the floor in a closeout game at home and nobody notices because his teammates step up and saved him. Nobody seems to remember that Lebron played in 3 finals and crapped the bed in two, or that in his last playoff game in Cleveland, the team literally quit down the stretch and didnt bother to try to come back late in the game.

      So maybe instead of crucifying Melo after 2 admittedly bad games, support the man, cheer for him, at the very least wait until be actually loses the fucking series before calling him a shit player.

    9. Nick C.

      I agree with you Juan but as a practical matter does it really matter what his motives are be they tyrant or martyr? What is needed is correct smart play. It might help if the coach wasn’t so obstinate about playing his pets and got his rookie/non-traditional baller phobia out of his system.

    10. Hubert Davis

      Owen:
      Went to the game. Disappointed with the Knicks. REALLY disappointed with the fans. No energy in the arena at all. Was basically chanting defense all by myself. Crowd was basically dead compared to what I remember of playoff basketball in my youth.

      The Celtics were really lucky with their three point shooting. We were not. But no excuses for losing that game….

      I really don’t know what you’re talking about here, man. I was in the West Balcony and the crowd was a great as I remember it during the 90’s.

      There was a great moment in the 2Q after the C’s had made a run to take a 6 point lead and the Knicks visibly hung their heads and Ray was slow bringing the ball up the court and the Garden all rose up and cheered em on, Ray picked up the pace, and hit Tyson with a semi-transition dunk and the place went nuts. That’s how a great crowd influences the game.

      I never felt alone when I chanted Defense. But the damn defense kept breaking down or Joey Crawford bailed them out. It was a bad performance by the team, not the crowd.

    11. WeirdJohn

      The game last night looked like a team desperately trying to not lose instead of trying to win. That will get you beat every time.

      This team needs to play with more confidence and needs to get off the heavy ISO sets if they are going to win tomorrow night.

    12. DRed

      It’s stupid to talk about Melo being selfish, or mentally weak-that’s all just pretty baseless speculation. Melo just isn’t a superstar level basketball player. Its not like he didn’t have games like this during the regular season.

      We’re better than the celtics. If good Melo shows up we’ll beat them easily. Even if he doesn’t we’ll still probably win the series.

    13. Hubert Davis

      Juany8:
      I have a slightly different opinion on the whole thing. I don’t think Melo is trying to be selfish and make it all about him, I think he’s pressing when his team gets down because he’s so desperate to get out of the first round and start winning playoff series. It doesn’t help that you can’t have a bad game without the whole media rushing to crucify you as a shitty player, while James harden craps the floor in a closeout game at home and nobody notices because his teammates step up and saved him. Nobody seems to remember that Lebron played in 3 finals and crapped the bed in two, or that in his last playoff game in Cleveland, the team literally quit down the stretch and didnt bother to try to come back late in the game.

      So maybe instead of crucifying Melo after 2 admittedly bad games, support the man, cheer for him, at the very least wait until be actually loses the fucking series before calling him a shit player.

      Dude, he’s not pressing when his team gets down, his team is down because he’s pressing. Period. End of story.

      And I may be crucifying him here, now, but I stood and cheered for him every time last night at the game. I didn’t go the Garden to boo the team and players I love.

      This ain’t about the Celtics, or the fact that they stole one last night. It’s about winning the whole damn thing. And he has to get over this and trust his teammates like he did all year.

      I am not saying he is a shit player. I am not – repeat, NOT! – even saying that I expect this continue. I am pointing out how disappointing it is that SO FAR he has reverted to some of the tendencies that he seemed to have overcome this year.

      And I’m hoping these last two games help teach him he needs to let his teammates do more of the heavy lifting for him.

    14. er

      Hubert Davis: Dude, he’s not pressing when his team gets down, his team is down because he’s pressing. Period. End of story. And I may be crucifying him here, now, but I stood and cheered for him every time last night at the game. I didn’t go the Garden to boo the team and players I love. This ain’t about the Celtics, or the fact that they stole one last night. It’s about winning the whole damn thing. And he has to get over this and trust his teammates like he did all year. I am not saying he is a shit player. I am not – repeat, NOT! – even saying that I expect this continue. I am pointing out how disappointing it is that SO FAR he has reverted to some of the tendencies that he seemed to have overcome this year. And I’m hoping these last two games help teach him he needs to let his teammates do more of the heavy lifting for him.

      like JR right….

    15. er

      and he had 12 points in the first….after that he had 14 shots the rest of the game. I didnt see any “pressing” he just couldnt shoot

    16. jon abbey

      DRed:
      It’s stupid to talk about Melo being selfish, or mentally weak-that’s all just pretty baseless speculation. Melo just isn’t a superstar level basketball player. Its not like he didn’t have games like this during the regular season.

      he isn’t LeBron, but I don’t think there’s another player in the league that is a ‘level’ better, including Durant, who looks a lot like Melo right now without Westbrook next to him. last night was extremely disappointing, but it won’t matter much if they close this series out.

    17. JK47

      Melo isn’t “pressing.” He’s choking.

      He’s shooting .286 from three, bricked two key free throws that would have ended the series in game 4, has 6 assists against 13 turnovers and a sub-.500 TS%.

      If the Knicks don’t win this series it will be the most epic choke job in NBA history.

    18. Hubert Davis

      Also, I don’t think Melo is selfish. I think he’s easily manipulated, though. But the Celtics deserve a lot of credit for this, too. It’s not just all blame Melo. Remember, they nearly stole a championship in a game 7 on the road by manipulating Kobe Bryant into ignoring Pau Gasol, who was dominant that night. They are really, really good at this.

      I just want Melo to overcome it. I want him to beat this crap SO BAD. I want him to stop feeling like he has to do everything himself and just trust guys to take the load off him. I want us to win a championship this year, and that HAS TO happen. Melo isn’t ISO-ing us past Miami.

      I have pointed out today that so far he has done a poor job with the strategic aspect of this series, but I do it hopeful that these setbacks will help him overcome it.

    19. stratomatic

      If this is the new and improved JR and Melo that everyone has been trying to convince me about then I must live in some kind of alternate reality.

      IMO this is the bottom line.

      Pretty much all these “shot creating” gunners are the same (Melo, JR, Nate, Monta Ellis, Crawford etc..)

      They throw up a lot of poor shots off ISOs or because they hold the ball too long. Some nights (or series of nights) a lot those shots go in and they dominate ballgames. So everyone sings their praises.

      On the flip side, they have games and periods where the shots are not dropping. Then they single handedly blow game after game. That’s when their fans and apologists conveniently get amnesia until the next hot streak.

      Players like this have to be viewed in light of their long term efficiency and contributions, not on the basis of what they do over a short period of games or at their playing level.

      No matter how talented a player is, you still have the to play the game correctly. That means running and trying to get easy baskets before the defense sets, pink and rolls, moving the ball, taking good shots given your skill set, and generally avoiding ISO and post ups unless there’s a clear cut mismatch or it’s late in the clock.

      The Knicks are still a huge favorite to win this series, but the Celtics are not very good and we are now in a dog fight. Imagine if we were playing a good team!

      Honestly guys, the Knicks have no chance at all to win a championship with an offense built entirely around Melo and JR. No chance at all.

    20. Juany8

      Nick C.:
      I agree with you Juan but as a practical matter does it really matter what his motives are be they tyrant or martyr? What is needed is correct smart play. It might help if the coach wasn’t so obstinate about playing his pets and got his rookie/non-traditional baller phobia out of his system.

      That’s the problem nick, when you’re pressing your definition of the smart play gets distorted. We saw it with Dirk and kobe when they won their championships, terrible shooting games, tons of shots, just an awful looking game. Now you might say the stakes are higher in the Finals, but Melo has never been that far. For him beating the Celrics right now is actually a pretty significant career step, it’ll be his first series win with the Knicks. Lets show some damn support instead of desperately attacking him every time something goes wrong. Really the only player in the world that lives up to the standard some of you guys are setting is Lebron James period. This board would be having the exact same freak out if they were cheering for the Thunder right now, if even Chris Paul and Durant have a hard time playing consistently awesome and winning, who’s a superstar? Pretty much just Lebron James. And he had to dramatically change his game late in his career to get to this point, without the post game we’re still waiting for Lebron to win his first championship

    21. er

      stratomatic: If this is the new and improved JR and Melo that everyone has been trying to convince me about then I must live in some kind of alternate reality. IMO this is the bottom line. Pretty much all these “shot creating” gunners are the same (Melo, JR, Nate, Monta Ellis, Crawford etc..) They throw up a lot of poor shots off ISOs or because they hold the ball too long. Some nights (or series of nights) a lot those shots go in and they dominate ballgames. So everyone sings their praises. On the flip side, they have games and periods where the shots are not dropping. Then they single handedly blow game after game. That’s when their fans and apologists conveniently get amnesia until the next hot streak. Players like this have to be viewed in light of their long term efficiency and contributions, not on the basis of what they do over a short period of games or at their playing level. No matter how talented a player is, you still have the to play the game correctly. That means running and trying to get easy baskets before the defense sets, pink and rolls, moving the ball, taking good shots given your skill set, and generally avoiding ISO and post ups unless there’s a clear cut mismatch or it’s late in the clock. The Knicks are still a huge favorite to win this series, but the Celtics are not very good and we are now in a dog fight. Imagine if we were playing a good team! Honestly guys, the Knicks have no chance at all to win a championship with an offense built entirely around Melo and JR. No chance at all.

      so you just said melo is in montas and lil nate class…..lol

    22. er

      stratomatic: If this is the new and improved JR and Melo that everyone has been trying to convince me about then I must live in some kind of alternate reality. IMO this is the bottom line. Pretty much all these “shot creating” gunners are the same (Melo, JR, Nate, Monta Ellis, Crawford etc..) They throw up a lot of poor shots off ISOs or because they hold the ball too long. Some nights (or series of nights) a lot those shots go in and they dominate ballgames. So everyone sings their praises. On the flip side, they have games and periods where the shots are not dropping. Then they single handedly blow game after game. That’s when their fans and apologists conveniently get amnesia until the next hot streak. Players like this have to be viewed in light of their long term efficiency and contributions, not on the basis of what they do over a short period of games or at their playing level. No matter how talented a player is, you still have the to play the game correctly. That means running and trying to get easy baskets before the defense sets, pink and rolls, moving the ball, taking good shots given your skill set, and generally avoiding ISO and post ups unless there’s a clear cut mismatch or it’s late in the clock. The Knicks are still a huge favorite to win this series, but the Celtics are not very good and we are now in a dog fight. Imagine if we were playing a good team! Honestly guys, the Knicks have no chance at all to win a championship with an offense built entirely around Melo and JR. No chance at all.

      also this will be the knicks toughest series imo………only lebron has a chance to beat up on melo for the rest of the playoffs.But we will see, furthermore the knick fan panic and dismissal of this team is interesting. This was the first game that Boston outplayed the knicks.

    23. DRed

      Durant scored 36 points on 23 shots last night and had more assists than Melo’s had in 5 games. If Melo looked like that this series would be over

    24. Hubert Davis

      Juany8: Lets show some damn support instead of desperately attacking him every time something goes wrong.

      It’s a message board, man. I showed my support at the Garden last night. Everyone did. Do you think I was booing him? No. I support him 100%. But when I’m on a message board that I’m pretty sure he doesn’t read, I don’t see the harm in venting about how awful he’s been.

    25. er

      DRed: Durant scored 36 points on 23 shots last night and had more assists than Melo’s had in 5 games. If Melo looked like that this series would be over

      yea durant has been better but awful in every second half without russy

    26. jon abbey

      DRed:
      Durant scored 36 points on 23 shots last night and had more assists than Melo’s had in 5 games.If Melo looked like that this series would be over

      of course Boston’s defense is quite a bit tougher than Houston’s.

    27. stratomatic

      er: so you just said melo is in montas and lil nate class…..lol

      Not exactly (and I should have added Marbury and Francis to the list also since this is a Knicks blog).

      Melo is a somewhat superior version of the same thing – which means he’s playing a losing brand of basketball because his style doesn’t lead to consistent high efficiency offense. It leads to extremes that net out to nothing special.

      Even the great players have bad shooting games or rough series because of the match ups. So that’s not the issue. But the great players generally play correctly (or eventually learn to). So over a season or career they net out to more consistent results and win more often when they are supposed to.

      What you are seeing over the last few games is a consolidation of Melo’s career. Sure he may drop 45 on 25 shots next game, but it’s still not winning basketball and will never get it done against a healthy high level team.

    28. er

      stratomatic: Not exactly (and I should have added Marbury and Francis to the list also since this is a Knicks blog). Melo is a somewhat superior version of the same thing – which means he’s playing a losing brand of basketball because his style doesn’t lead to consistent high efficiency offense. It leads to extremes that net out to nothing special. Even the great players have bad shooting games or rough series because of the match ups. So that’s not the issue. But the great players generally play correctly (or eventually learn to). So over a season or career they net out to more consistent results and win more often when they are supposed to. What you are seeing over the last few games is a consolidation of Melo’s career. Sure he may drop 45 on 25 shots next game, but it’s still not winning basketball and will never get it done against a healthy high level team.

      ok so melo had 2 bd games now he will never win?

    29. Hubert Davis

      I feel like there is some strong anti-Melo sentiment here that y’all have dealt with for a long time so that as soon as someone says something bad about Melo people’s defense systems kick in.

      I’m not anti-Melo. I’m not win shares guy. I’m a Knicks fan. And Melo is sucking ass right now. And it’s pissing me off!

      Truth be told, I would much rather he score 15 points Friday night and we win behind huge games from Felton & Chandler & some hot shooting from JR, Shump, or Kidd (i.e. the game in San Antonio) than see him score 50. But I don’t get the feeling that he would let that happen right now.

    30. jon abbey

      I don’t think anyone would argue he’s had a terrible last two games, just saying that doesn’t negate the rest of his year. if he has two more like that and NY loses this series, then he deserves all the attacks he will get.

    31. Juany8

      jon abbey: of course Boston’s defense is quite a bit tougher than Houston’s.

      Houston’s defense has been embarrassing without Asik on the floor, and he can’t play 40 minutes a game. By embarrassing I mean that I’m pretty sure D-League teams would put up more resistance. Even including the 30 point loss, the rockets have outscored the Thunder with Asik on the floor for this series. He’s the Rockets best player in the series

    32. stratomatic

      er: ok so melo had 2 bd games now he will never win?

      This isn’t a serious question is it?

      How long have you been a fan and how long have you been watching Melo and some of the others I mentioned play vs. some of the teams and great players that have had more consistent actual success.

      He will never win because his style of play never wins and he seems unable or unwilling to change it. If he does eventually win, it will be when he’s older and is forced to become the 2nd option.

    33. stratomatic

      er:
      dont forgetkobe either for your list

      Kobe has flaws in his game also, but he’s not “as flawed” as Melo. He also had Shaq (who is one of the greatest players ever, including on offense) for 3 of his titles and he had Bynum/Gasol as extremely high level 2nd and 3rd options for the other 2.

    34. DRed

      jon abbey: of course Boston’s defense is quite a bit tougher than Houston’s.

      Going 23 for 39 from the field is quite a bit better than going 18 for 59.

    35. Juany8

      Hubert Davis:
      I feel like there is some strong anti-Melo sentiment here that y’all have dealt with for a long time so that as soon as someone says something bad about Melo people’s defense systems kick in.

      I’m not anti-Melo.I’m not win shares guy.I’m a Knicks fan.And Melo is sucking ass right now.And it’s pissing me off!

      Truth be told, I would much rather he score 15 points Friday night and we win behind huge games from Felton & Chandler & some hot shooting from JR, Shump, or Kidd (i.e. the game in San Antonio) than see him score 50.But I don’t get the feeling that he would let that happen right now.

      Alright this is a fair response Hubert, I was also mad at his game, especially in game 4 where he just played horrible. You can see why we’re defensive though, you might still support him but there were several posters yesterday who were fully willing to trade off Melo for scrap to start over. It’s a ridiculous position to take when the supposed second and third best players in the league (Durant and Chris Paul) might win a combined 1 playoff series this year. HeLl if Harden could make a goddam field goal, the Rockets might be up 3-2 in their series going home to close out the Thunder.

    36. er

      stratomatic: Kobe has flaws in his game also, but he’s not “as flawed” as Melo. He also had Shaq (who is one of the greatest players ever, including on offense) for 3 of his titles and he had Bynum/Gasolas extremely high level 2nd and 3rd options for the other 2.

      Same thing can be said comparing Melo to Nate Robinson , but you had no problem doing that did you

    37. Juany8

      stratomatic: Kobe has flaws in his game also, but he’s not “as flawed” as Melo. He also had Shaq (who is one of the greatest players ever, including on offense) for 3 of his titles and he had Bynum/Gasolas extremely high level 2nd and 3rd options for the other 2.

      Lol except Bynum was injured during both those championship runs. I still remember him threatening to get more fouls than points against Yao Ming in round 2 with the rockets in 2009. So Kobe won a championship with Lamar odom and pau gasol as his second and third best players on the team. Compare that to Lebron winning with wade and bosh, and it’s hard to say Kobe had too much help. I also have to say that Battier and Chalmers are a much better supporting cast than Derrick Fisher and Ron Artest/Ariza. pau gasol meanwhile, had never even win a playoff game until he got to the Lakers. Some superstar right there.

    38. DRed

      jon abbey:
      I don’t think anyone would argue he’s had a terrible last two games, just saying that doesn’t negate the rest of his year. if he has two more like that and NY loses this series, then he deserves all the attacks he will get.

      But this is what Melo has been all year. Sometimes he’s amazing, sometimes he’s terrible, and generally he’s somewhat above average. Its what he’s been his whole career. Melo will almost certainly play better next game, and I think we’ll win, but Melo is what he is by this point.

    39. Douglas

      Hubert Davis:
      Changing the topic:

      Jordan Crawford said WHAT????

      http://deadspin.com/jordan-crawford-to-carmelo-anthony-that-motherfucker-487017786?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

      Dude, those guys bitchslapped us all over our home court last night.Jason Terry did the Jet at least three times, and now this?

      Wow.

      I saw that in GIF form last night. Jordan Crawford is such a little shit. Right after he gets a DNP and doesn’t play a single minute in his team’s biggest game of the season he thinks he has the right to say things about Melo’s wife. He has no shame whatsoever.

      Before I saw that, I just wanted to get a win and end the series. Now I want the Knicks to absolutely destroy the Celtics and for someone to annihilate Jordan Crawford with a hard screen the moment he steps on the court — if he even gets off the bench, that is.

    40. Douglas

      jon abbey: ©

      Enormous understatement; without Asik, Houston plays defense at a D-League level. Even when Asik is on the floor the Thunder are outscoring the Rockets this series.

    41. JK47

      Well, Friday night we’ll see what this team is all about.

      If they go into Boston and hang an emphatic beating on the Celtics, great. We can feel all warm and fuzzy about how they learned something and came out of this ordeal stronger yadda yadda.

      If they lose Friday, then the season is lost, even if the Knicks come back to win a Game 7 at home. Championship teams do not blow 3-0 leads. Hell, COMPETENT teams don’t blow 3-0 leads.

    42. Douglas

      JK47:
      Well, Friday night we’ll see what this team is all about.

      If they go into Boston and hang an emphatic beating on the Celtics, great.We can feel all warm and fuzzy about how they learned something and came out of this ordeal stronger yadda yadda.

      If they lose Friday, then the season is lost, even if the Knicks come back to win a Game 7 at home.Championship teams do not blow 3-0 leads.Hell, COMPETENT teams don’t blow 3-0 leads.

      Let me amend that, NO TEAM has ever blown a 3-0 lead.

    43. thenamestsam

      Man, I don’t want to even think about what this board would be like if were actually behind in this series. We’re not playing especially well but we still have probably an 80% chance of winning this series. Excuse me for not caring if we’re playing “winning basketball” as long as we’re winning.

      I can’t believe people are discussing whether this style can ever win a championship and all that other nonsense like the season is already over. We still have home court advantage in this round, we’re still going to win this series, we’re still going to be favored against Indy (who, oh by the way, is in exactly the same position as us against Atlanta) and we still match up with well with Miami. None of that has changed in the last 4 days. Lets keep some freaking perspective.

    44. Juany8

      Douglas: Enormous understatement; without Asik, Houston plays defense at a D-League level. Even when Asik is on the floor the Thunder are outscoring the Rockets this series.

      In game 1 he was -3, game 2 +12, game 3 -13, game 4 +12, and game 5 +2. I’m getting the numbers from ESPN, assuming the are correct it would mean Asik is +10 for the series. If they are not I apologize for either sucking at reading or using a bad box score from ESPN lol

    45. thenamestsam

      Douglas: I saw that in GIF form last night. Jordan Crawford is such a little shit. Right after he gets a DNP and doesn’t play a single minute in his team’s biggest game of the season he thinks he has the right to say things about Melo’s wife. He has no shame whatsoever.

      Before I saw that, I just wanted to get a win and end the series. Now I want the Knicks to absolutely destroy the Celtics and for someone to annihilate Jordan Crawford with a hard screen the moment he steps on the court — if he even gets off the bench, that is.

      If that’s what Jordan Crawford actually said then he is a total asshole. And he obviously said something that got the Knicks riled up. But I think there’s a lot of confirmation bias going on here. Someone says that’s what he’s saying so when you watch it you can’t help but see that, but I really, really don’t think it’s obvious that’s what he’s saying. The main conclusion I came to through my amateur lip reading is that it doesn’t look like Jordan Crawford has exemplary diction.

    46. Juany8

      thenamestsam:
      Man, I don’t want to even think about what this board would be like if were actually behind in this series. We’re not playing especially well but we still have probably an 80% chance of winning this series. Excuse me for not caring if we’re playing “winning basketball” as long as we’re winning.

      I can’t believe people are discussing whether this style can ever win a championship and all that other nonsense like the season is already over. We still have home court advantage in this round, we’re still going to win this series, we’re still going to be favored against Indy (who, oh by the way, is in exactly the same position as us against Atlanta) and we still match up with well with Miami. None of that has changed in the last 4 days. Lets keep some freaking perspective.

      Quite a few of the people posting never do so unless the Knicks are doing terrible. At least Jeremy Lin was awful and Felton good, otherwise we’d be getting the Jeremy Lin fanboys coming out of nowhere too.

    47. er

      thenamestsam: If that’s what Jordan Crawford actually said then he is a total asshole. And he obviously said something that got the Knicks riled up. But I think there’s a lot of confirmation bias going on here. Someone says that’s what he’s saying so when you watch it you can’t help but see that, but I really, really don’t think it’s obvious that’s what he’s saying. The main conclusion I came to through my amateur lip reading is that it doesn’t look like Jordan Crawford has exemplary diction.

      I really think this game 6 will be epic…melo and jr somewhat return to form and Celtics at home. Get ya popcorn ready

    48. thenamestsam

      Juany8: Quite a few of the people posting never do so unless the Knicks are doing terrible. At least Jeremy Lin was awful and Felton good, otherwise we’d be getting the Jeremy Lin fanboys coming out of nowhere too.

      I’m quite aware of that, but c’mon, the Knicks aren’t even doing terrible! They’re still winning the series! At least wait until we actually fall behind before coming out of the woodwork to preemptively gloat over the dead body.

    49. Nick C.

      They are leading. Big Blue Al, I think it was him, posted that the issue was they were doing it, or not doing it, in a fashion that does not make them look like best team in the NBA material, so maybe the talk of the Finals was premature. Or something to that effect.

      I’m sure there are counterpoints out there, as noted in other threads. I think Boston once went to the finals or maybe even won it all while having to take 7 games to beat the Hawks. Last year Miami was down 2-0 to Indy IIRC, albeit without Bosh. In ancient times the Lakers got annihilated in the Celtics in the Memorial Day massacre in game one of the finals (we’ll be in the second round still lol) and won it all.

    50. PC

      thenamestam –

      what are you talking about? The perspective is that the Knicks have lost two games in a row, and played bad in each game.

      “until we actually fall behind” – what does that mean? The only time we will have fell behind in the series is 4-3, when we lose.

      You’re just speculating that they will win the series – great – and I agree with you. But fans certainly can get a little anxious when they’re playing like dogshit.

      “none of that has changed in the last 4 days” – no – the guarantee that we win this series has certainly changed. It went from guaranteed to we must win a really tough home game or a really tough game 7. It sure aint at 80%.

    51. thenamestsam

      PC:
      thenamestam –

      what are you talking about?The perspective is that the Knicks have lost two games in a row, and played bad in each game.

      “until we actually fall behind” – what does that mean? The only time we will have fell behind in the series is 4-3, when we lose.

      You’re just speculating that they will win the series – great – and I agree with you. But fans certainly can get a little anxious when they’re playing like dogshit.

      “none of that has changed in the last 4 days” – no – the guarantee that we win this series has certainly changed. It went from guaranteed to we must win a really tough home game or a really tough game 7. It sure aint at 80%.

      If it’s not exactly 80% it’s surely very close to that. I know everyone is in full blown panic mode but the Knicks are favored in Game 6 on the road and rightfully so. They’d still be heavy favorites in a hypothetical game 7. 52% chance to win game 6 and a 60% chance to win game 7 gives you a greater than 80% chance of winning the series.

    52. steveoh

      MT from @CoupNBA

      As one of the league’s best offenses during the regular season, the Knicks used 15.9 isolations per game. In the playoffs, it’s been 26.6 (the most for any playoff team since at least 2004). Also, the Knicks are scoring .707 points per possession with them, lowest of any playoff team.

    53. thenamestsam

      thenamestsam: If it’s not exactly 80% it’s surely very close to that. I know everyone is in full blown panic mode but the Knicks are favored in Game 6 on the road and rightfully so. They’d still be heavy favorites in a hypothetical game 7. 52% chance to win game 6 and a 60% chance to win game 7 gives you a greater than 80% chance of winning the series.

      And by the way, latest Vegas odds I’ve seen have us at more than 87% to win the series.

    54. bidiong

      I think we can expect to see the jumpers start falling enough to finish out the series. Then we can decide if we want to worry about the next round for a week. I can’t fathom Melo not shooting less than 45% three games in a row.

    55. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      steveoh:
      MT from @CoupNBA

      As one of the league’s best offenses during the regular season, the Knicks used 15.9 isolations per game. In the playoffs, it’s been 26.6 (the most for any playoff team since at least 2004). Also, the Knicks are scoring .707 points per possession with them, lowest of any playoff team.

      But isn’t Melo good because when he’s “forced” to take those “bad” possessions and “create” shots, he’s “better” than other players in the league? Geez, looks like the hole in that boat just fell through.

    56. Hubert Davis

      thenamestsam:
      and we still match up with well with Miami. None of that has changed in the last 4 days. Lets keep some freaking perspective.

      Actually, I think this part has, and that’s why I’m losing my marbles. We’re not going to lose this series. But we are demonstrating that we are unwilling to use the parts of our game that make us a bad matchup for Miami, even when they’re effective and the other team can’t defend it.

      Melo & JR ISO’s do not make us a bad matchup for Miami.

    57. Hubert Davis

      From Zach Lowe’s twitter:

      We currently rank 13th among 16 playoff teams on points per possession. We were 3rd in the NBA during the season.

      Is the Celtics’ D that good? Or is it us?

    58. DRed

      If anyone wants a laugh stephen a smith is about to have a hysterical meltdown on the radio

    59. flossy

      For all the people saying Kevin Durant is playing like Melo now that Westbrook’s injured:

      2013 Playoffs:

      Carmelo Anthony: 39.6% usage (!!!), .494 TS%, (?!?) 7.0 AST%

      Kevin Durant: 31.9% usage, .612 TS%, 27.0 AST%

      and just for funsies…

      LeBron James: 29.0% usage, .679 TS%, 35.4 AST%

      Yes, Durant had Westbrook for 1.5 games and LeBron played the Bucks. That is absolutely not enough to explain the absolutely massive, gaping gulf between Melo and the star forwards to whom he is so often compared. I mean, if a player spent the entire regular season finishing 2 out of every 5 possessions while failing to crack .500 TS% and virtually never assisting his teammate’s FGs he’d be called a sociopath (and would be out of a job real quick).

      I think we all know Melo can play better than this. The question is why isn’t he?

    60. Juany8

      thenamestsam: I’m quite aware of that, but c’mon, the Knicks aren’t even doing terrible! They’re still winning the series! At least wait until we actually fall behind before coming out of the woodwork to preemptively gloat over the dead body.

      They’ve been waiting for the Knicks to lose even two in a row for a while :p

    61. er

      flossy:
      For all the people saying Kevin Durant is playing like Melo now that Westbrook’s injured:

      2013 Playoffs:

      Carmelo Anthony: 39.6% usage (!!!), .494 TS%, (?!?) 7.0 AST%

      Kevin Durant: 31.9% usage, .612 TS%, 27.0 AST%

      and just for funsies…

      LeBron James: 29.0% usage, .679 TS%, 35.4 AST%

      Yes, Durant had Westbrook for 1.5 games and LeBron played the Bucks.That is absolutely not enough to explain the absolutely massive, gaping gulf between Melo and the star forwards to whom he is so often compared.I mean, if a player spent the entire regular season finishing 2 out of every 5 possessions while failing to crack .500 TS% and virtually never assisting his teammate’s FGs he’d be called a sociopath (and would be out of a job real quick).

      I think we all know Melo can play better than this.The question is why isn’t he?

      to be fair….melo had 3 good games and 2 terrible games. Stats for 5 games are stupid. Furthermore Houstons D on KD was laughable until the last two games

    62. JK47

      So, the stats confirm what the eye test is telling us: this team has gone way too iso-heavy, and as a result the team is playing like poo.

      They’ve played like a caricature of themselves. This is the Melo and JR of our nightmares. Maybe they’ll figure it out and turn it around before they bury this season under a shitpile of contested 18-footers.

    63. er

      JK47:
      So, the stats confirm what the eye test is telling us: this team has gone way too iso-heavy, and as a result the team is playing like poo.

      They’ve played like a caricature of themselves.This is the Melo and JR of our nightmares.Maybe they’ll figure it out and turn it around before they bury this season under a shitpile of contested 18-footers.

      hopefully they will

    64. cgreene

      For someone who calls other people out from running away from the discussion Ruru’s absence from the board last night and today is most conspicuous. He’s usually pretty good but if there is day to mount your defense of Melo then today is it…

    65. er

      I dont think thats fair to say that yet. He usually says that about guys who disappear for weeks at a time when the knicks are playing well. Then appear when they play a stinker. however, there is no defense of melo even from our buddy ruru. Melo just has to go out and ball in game 6 and leave it all out there

    66. stratomatic

      er: Same thing can be said comparing Melo to Nate Robinson , but you had no problem doing that did you

      Yes because guys like Melo, Nate, JR play the same way (foolishly).

      Kobe plays foolishly “at times” also, but my point has been you can’t win a championship playing that way…. unless of course you happen to have Shaq as the #1 scorer and teammate nest to you compensating for some of the idiocy.

      When the Knicks are on a position to sign Shaq, I’ll still think Melo plays foolishly but I’ll give them a chance to win it all. Get it?

    67. DRed

      Carmelo could win a championship this year. It’s not likely, but it’s certainly possible

    68. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      cgreene:
      For someone who calls other people out from running away from the discussion Ruru’s absence from the board last night and today is most conspicuous.He’s usually pretty good but if there is day to mount your defense of Melo then today is it…

      If there’s one thing I have faith in, it’s ruruland’s willingness to mount a pro-Carmelo argument in the face of opposing evidence. He’s probably been without access or fetching Carmelo’s dry-cleaning.

    69. stratomatic

      Juany8: Lol except Bynum was injured during both those championship runs. I still remember him threatening to get more fouls than points against Yao Ming in round 2 with the rockets in 2009. So Kobe won a championship with Lamar odom and pau gasol as his second and third best players on the team. Compare that to Lebron winning with wade and bosh, and it’s hard to say Kobe had too much help. I also have to say that Battier and Chalmers are a much better supporting cast than Derrick Fisher and Ron Artest/Ariza. pau gasol meanwhile, had never even win a playoff game until he got to the Lakers. Some superstar right there.

      What are you talking about?

      Bynum played in both the 08-09 and 09-10 playoff runs and you and I both wish we had Odom.

    70. er

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: If there’s one thing I have faith in, it’s ruruland’s willingness to mount a pro-Carmelo argument in the face of opposing evidence. He’s probably been without access or fetching Carmelo’s dry-cleaning.

      lmao

    71. Juany8

      stratomatic: What are you talking about?

      Bynum played in both the 08-09 and 09-10 playoff runs and you and I both wish we had Odom.

      Yea he was still injured and sucked, go look up his stats and minutes played. Especially in 2009. His best scoring output in the Finals was 9 points, he literally played over 24 minutes just once in the whole playoffs. In that game 7 kf the finals that Perkins missed, Bynum played 18 minutes and went 1-5. Bynum didnt help the Lakers much during the playoffs. And odom is a fine player, but I’d much rather have Bosh or Harden as my third best player (the 3rd best player on each of the Finals teams last year)

    72. stratomatic

      JK47:
      So, the stats confirm what the eye test is telling us: this team has gone way too iso-heavy, and as a result the team is playing like poo.

      They’ve played like a caricature of themselves.This is the Melo and JR of our nightmares.Maybe they’ll figure it out and turn it around before they bury this season under a shitpile of contested 18-footers.

      This has always been their game.

      It’s not impossible to change, but we are dealing with JR Smith and Melo.

      We just witnessed a JR meltdown in game 4. As talented as he is, George Karl refused to resign him because the bad outweighed the great.

      We are also dealing with Melo.

      This is a guy that ran Mike D’Antoni (the man that revolutionized NBA offensive strategy) out of town because he wanted him to pass, not hold the ball, not go ISO as often, and allow Lin to handle it more and then kick it to him off the drive so he would get better looks. Now I’m not defending Mike D’Antoni’s all around coaching prowess, but if you are running him out of town because you don’t like the offense it’s YOU that’s an idiot.

    73. Nick C.

      DRed:
      If anyone wants a laugh stephen a smith is about to have a hysterical meltdown on the radio

      What does he have to say? I’d be curious since he was a very loud get Melo here at any cost guy and D’Antoni basher.

    74. er

      stratomatic: Yes because guys like Melo, Nate, JR play the same way (foolishly).

      Kobe plays foolishly “at times” also, butmy point has been you can’t win a championship playing that way…. unless of course you happen to have Shaq as the #1 scorer and teammate nest to you compensating for some of the idiocy.

      When the Knicks are on a position to sign Shaq, I’ll still think Melo plays foolishly but I’ll give them a chance to win it all.Get it?

      I get what you are saying about shaq and pau. I however dont understand what you mean by kobe plays fooslishly at times. He does the same amount of times melo does. I dont see any difference in their games honestly. Both are fairly streaky shooters, and both wont hesitate to iso all game and shoot 40 times if they felt like it. The difference is that Kobe has legitimately had an all nba player to defer to where melo has not

    75. flossy

      cgreene:
      For someone who calls other people out from running away from the discussion Ruru’s absence from the board last night and today is most conspicuous.He’s usually pretty good but if there is day to mount your defense of Melo then today is it…

      What’s to defend?

    76. stratomatic

      Juany8: Yea he was still injured and sucked, go look up his stats and minutes played. Especially in 2009. His best scoring output in the Finals was 9 points, he literally played over 24 minutes just once in the whole playoffs. In that game 7 kf the finals that Perkins missed, Bynum played 18 minutes and went 1-5. Bynum didnt help the Lakers much during the playoffs. And odom is a fine player, but I’d much rather have Bosh or Harden as my third best player (the 3rd best player on each of the Finals teams last year)

      He played well 09-10

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bynuman01.html

    77. Juany8

      stratomatic: Yes because guys like Melo, Nate, JR play the same way (foolishly).

      Kobe plays foolishly “at times” also, butmy point has been you can’t win a championship playing that way…. unless of course you happen to have Shaq as the #1 scorer and teammate nest to you compensating for some of the idiocy.

      When the Knicks are on a position to sign Shaq, I’ll still think Melo plays foolishly but I’ll give them a chance to win it all.Get it?

      Lol so the back to back championships with a second banana who had never won a playoff game just didnt happen? And have you seem those team’s bench players? Are Jordan farmer and Shannon brown even in the league still? I don’t think they even had a serious backup for the amazing Ron Artest and Trevor Ariza. Their 4th best player was too injured to give them consistent minutes and their 5th best player might have been an old Derrick fisher. And they won back to back titles. The only thing that matters when evaluating a team

    78. er

      if you are running him out of town because you don’t like the offense it’s YOU that’s an idiot.

      WHOA…. dantoni was awful here and thats melos fault? Furthermore he ran himself outta town, im tired of ppl saying melo did, he said trade melo for dwill or he quit. Which is exactly what he did. QUIT

    79. ConnecTVSports

      So now the Celtics have gone from 0-3 to 2-3 and they’re on their way back to the Garden for Game 6. Probably the worst thing the Knicks could have done was to let Boston think that they have a chance in this one. I originally picked the Knicks to take this in 5 games, but clearly I did not see this coming. Still though, for the Celtics to win by 6 points it took 5 players to be completely on point and Carmelo and J.R. Smith to be ice cold. I doubt it happens again – even in Game 6.

    80. stratomatic

      er: I get what you are saying about shaq and pau. I however dont understand what you mean by kobe plays fooslishly at times. He does the same amount of times melo does. I dont see any difference in their games honestly. Both are fairly streaky shooters, and both wont hesitate to iso all game and shoot 40 times if they felt like it. The difference is that Kobe has legitimately had an all nba player to defer to where melo has not

      I’m not a Kobe defender.

      I’m saying you have to play the right way on offense to win a championship. Kobe was an exception because he was great in other ways and he was fortunate to play on stacked teams. So they overcame it.

      Right now the Knicks offense revolves around Melo and JR. That’s two players that both ISO too much, hold the ball too much, and take lots of bad shots. They can’t win that way.

      As sad as this sounds, our best hope for this year is that Amare comes back good enough to actually take a major role in the offense just to take the ball out of their hands more often.

    81. er

      stratomatic: I’m not a Kobe defender.

      I’m saying you have to play the right way on offense to win a championship. Kobe was an exception because he was great in other ways and he was fortunate to play on stacked teams.So they overcame it.

      Right now the Knicks offense revolves around Melo and JR. That’s two players that both ISO too much, hold the ball too much, and take lots of bad shots. They can’t win that way.

      As sad as this sounds, our best hope for this year is that Amare comes back good enough to actually take a major role in the offense just to take the ball out of their hands more often.

      there we agree, stat will help. The iso ball is stupid as hell, run the melo ball handler pnr to change it up and more melo off ball like first quarter yesterday. And just try not to suck JR lol

    82. cgreene

      flossy: What’s to defend?

      Perhaps explain? He seems to have direct access or indirect access that’s better than the stupid fucking questions melo is getting asked by the press today.

      I mentioned last night that he strategy to beat the soft double is the one dribble pull up off the catch quickly or the immediate move towards the basket and pass or shoot. Melo is taking the ball slowly into the double team which is exactly what that defense wants because it allows the doublers not to have to hard commit to Melo. Why the fuck can’t he figure that out?? That’s what I would like explained or defended. Because the argument that he doesn’t have trust in his teammates when both Felton and Shump are playing well is not valid like last year.

    83. stratomatic

      Juany8: Bynum had more games in the finals where he scored TWO points than games where he scored over 10 points. That kind of means something in a series that went 7 games. Some big help right there

      So what you’re saying is that because Bynum was not 100% in that Laker series that means Melo doesn’t play foolishly?

      Look, that Laker team had other efficient scoring options and Kobe was also a premier defender, solid play maker etc.. So he brought other stuff to the table despite playing foolishly at times.

      The Knicks offense is built around have Melo and JR. IMO, that’s not good. The fact that we have to even consider Felton as a major scoring option should be frightening to us (and he had a very good game last night).

      It’s simple, we can’t win this way.

    84. Hubert Davis

      I’m excited for RuRu’s defense. But I hope it isn’t “when the jumpers start falling…”.

      This isn’t a string of bad luck. The jumpers are falling at a lower rate because we are taking them in ISO sets with extremely higher frequency.

    85. DRed

      Nick C.: What does he have to say? I’d be curious since he was a very loud get Melo here at any cost guy and D’Antoni basher.

      Early on he asked (this is not verbatim) what Melo would have to say to people like himself who had gone through so much to bring Melo here. That was when I turned it off.

    86. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: Yea he was still injured and sucked, go look up his stats and minutes played. Especially in 2009. His best scoring output in the Finals was 9 points, he literally played over 24 minutes just once in the whole playoffs. In that game 7 kf the finals that Perkins missed, Bynum played 18 minutes and went 1-5. Bynum didnt help the Lakers much during the playoffs. And odom is a fine player, but I’d much rather have Bosh or Harden as my third best player (the 3rd best player on each of the Finals teams last year)

      Bynum had 4 ORB in 18 minutes in game 7, which, along with Pau’s rebounding, is the reason the Lakers won that game.

      They shot .349 eFG% AS A TEAM!

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201006170LAL.html#LAL_advanced::none

      Bynum didn’t have a great game (in limited minutes) but then again, no one did with the ball in their hands. But the Lakers had the ball in their hands quite a bit. How? The Lakers took 12 more FGA and 20 more FTA than the Celtics. How do you do that? Extra possessions. And since the Lakers only had 3 fewer TO than Boston, I’m going to chalk that win up to a +15 ORB difference in favor of the Lakers.

    87. Juany8

      stratomatic: So what you’re saying is that because Bynum was not 100% in that Laker series that means Melo doesn’t play foolishly?

      Look, that Laker team had other efficient scoring options and Kobe was also a premier defender, solid play maker etc.. So he brought other stuff to the table despite playing foolishly at times.

      The Knicks offense is built around have Melo and JR.IMO, that’s not good.The fact that we have to even consider Felton as a major scoring option should be frightening to us(and he had a very good game last night).

      It’s simple, we can’t win this way.

      I don’t know how you brought that around to Melo, I was saying Kobe won a bunch of championships as his team’s primary crunch time option, and that the teams were nowhere near as stacked as you are claiming them to be. I also agree that Melo is not on Kobe’s level, but that’s because Kobe is one of the best players of all time. He happened to play in an era that also contained guys like Shaq and Duncan, but after them id say he was the best player of the 2000’s. Lebron is going to overtake him too of course, but Durant has a long fucking way to go before getting there. Nobody else right now is particularly close.

    88. stratomatic

      er:
      if you are running him out of town because you don’t like the offense it’s YOU that’s an idiot.

      WHOA…. dantoni was awful here and thats melos fault? Furthermore he ran himself outta town, im tired of ppl saying melo did, he said trade melo for dwill or he quit. Which is exactly what he did. QUIT

      D’Antoni sat through 2 rebuilding years where he had no talent and players that were way too young to win to get to the point where they had a shot to be competitive with a few more tweaks (using Curry’s cap space etc..). That’s when the Melo trade was made. Even in those super lean years, offense was not the problem.

      Melo refused to run the coach’s offense (even Stat made comments along those lines and Melo’s agent was whining about it on twitter). Then there was a minor beef with Lin when Lin refused to give Melo the ball in the post because he wasn’t running the set plays. That was right after Melo came back after Lin’s infamous run. Not long after that D’Antoni realized that one of them had to go. He lost the political because Melo is the box office star and D’Antoni was an easily replaceable coach. It was Melo’s refusal to play within the system that caused all of that. It wasn’t defense, adjustments out of timeouts or other things that are legitimate complaints about D’Antoni.

    89. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Bynum had 4 ORB in 18 minutes in game 7, which, along with Pau’s rebounding, is the reason the Lakers won that game.

      They shot .349 eFG% AS A TEAM!

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201006170LAL.html#LAL_advanced::none

      Bynum didn’t have a great game (in limited minutes) but then again, no one did with the ball in their hands. But the Lakers had the ball in their hands quite a bit. How? The Lakers took 12 more FGA and 20 more FTA than the Celtics. How do you do that? Extra possessions. And since the Lakers only had 3 fewer TO than Boston, I’m going to chalk that win up to a +15 ORB difference in favor of the Lakers.

      You know Kobe had 15 rebounds that game right?

    90. DRed

      Kobe is a bit like Derek Jeter, in that he’s both under and over rated. He’s nowhere as good as players like Jordan or Magic or Lebron, but he’s been consistently very good while also being incredibly durable.

    91. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: You know Kobe had 15 rebounds that game right?

      In 45 minutes. That’s still great for a SG. But we’re talking about Bynum.

    92. Hubert Davis

      Surveying these stats:

      The good news is all we have to do is stop running more isolation sets than any team in recorded history and we’ll probably win in a breeze.

      The bad news is we might not do that.

    93. Juany8

      DRed:
      Kobe is a bit like Derek Jeter, in that he’s both under and over rated. He’s nowhere as good as players like Jordan or Magic or Lebron, but he’s been consistently very good while also being incredibly durable.

      I don’t think the fact that he’s not as good as the very best players of all time should be held against him though. People who say he’s better than Jordan are silly, but I’d take him over guys like Jason Kidd and Kevin Garnett for the 2000’s. Garnett is pretty damn close though, when people try to but pau gasol above Kobe though… Funny enough, pau gasol has never won a playoff game without Kobe. Forget series, not a fucking game!

    94. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: In 45 minutes. That’s still great for a SG. But we’re talking about Bynum.

      Right, and Bynum didnt play in the second half, when the lakers made their run and won the game. Bynum was not a big part of that Finals win, he simply was not that healthy and had like 1 good game the whole series. And he was far worse in 2009.

    95. er

      DRed:
      Kobe is a bit like Derek Jeter, in that he’s both under and over rated. He’s nowhere as good as players like Jordan or Magic or Lebron, but he’s been consistently very good while also being incredibly durable.

      good post

    96. nyk8806

      Douglas: Enormous understatement; without Asik, Houston plays defense at a D-League level. Even when Asik is on the floor the Thunder are outscoring the Rockets this series.

      Against OKC this series, including the game 1 blowout, HOU’s DRtg is 110.58, 3.74 worse than OKC’s 106.84. So, by that logic, OKC’s defense is marginally above D-League level (especially since OKC has a better offense). Should be a walk in the park for Miami then.

    97. Juany8

      nyk8806: Against OKC this series, including the game 1 blowout, HOU’s DRtg is 110.58, 3.74 worse than OKC’s 106.84.So, by that logic, OKC’s defense is marginally above D-League level (especially since OKC has a better offense).Should be a walk in the park for Miami then.

      OKC isn’t making the finals lol. And the Rockets are as good on offense as they are bad at defense, even when Harden plays like crap. Guys like Delfino and Garcia get no credit for Houston’s success, but Houston has had an awesome bench all season, especially once Beverly replaced Toney Douglas.

    98. er

      Hubert Davis:
      Surveying these stats:

      The good news is all we have to do is stop running more isolation sets than any team in recorded history and we’ll probably win in a breeze.

      The bad news is we might not do that.

      or maybe stop letting boston beat us at our own game which is 3s

      last 2 games boston went 19-44 from three while the bockers went 12-42

    99. Juany8

      nyk8806: Against OKC this series, including the game 1 blowout, HOU’s DRtg is 110.58, 3.74 worse than OKC’s 106.84.So, by that logic, OKC’s defense is marginally above D-League level (especially since OKC has a better offense).Should be a walk in the park for Miami then.

      And wait, you’re using Houston’s numbers for the whole series Asik plays quite a few minutes, the point is to look at the defense when he’s sitting down.

    100. flossy

      Hubert Davis:
      Surveying these stats:

      The good news is all we have to do is stop running more isolation sets than any team in recorded history and we’ll probably win in a breeze.

      The bad news is we might not do that.

      Don’t know whether to laugh or cry…

    101. Hubert Davis

      er: or maybe stop letting boston beat us at our own game which is 3s

      last 2 games boston went 19-44 from three while the bockers went 12-42

      Boston can’t beat us at anything if we run our offense they we have all season.

    102. Juany8

      One thing I like about this little losing streak is that it’s at the very least going to teach this team not to do stupid shit during the playoffs. You have to believe the learned their lesson about talking trash before a game, and hopefully JR calms the fuck down before he personally costs the Knicks the season. Good for them to take some heat and deal with some adversity while up 3-2 in a series against an inferior opponent.

    103. er

      Hubert Davis: Boston can’t beat us at anything if we run our offense they we have all season.

      i agree, but they are nailing a crazy amount of 3s…need to defend that better

    104. thenamestsam

      flossy:
      Apparently JR Smith was photographed out late in the clubs on Monday and Tuesday night:

      http://www.charged.fm/blog/post/3837/video-why-jr-smith-will-play-better

      I guess dude doesn’t want a pay raise after all?I can’t think of any other reason for such dumbass behavior.

      If you actually click through to the source of those pictures the ones that are supposedly from Tuesday night are dated May 2. Unless I’m misunderstanding it looks like they’re actually from last night, not from Tuesday night. Still not exactly brilliant to be out partying at all in the middle of a series, but it doesn’t seem like it was the night before the game and I’d be very surprised if his behavior wasn’t somewhat common. I didn’t go through all the pictures but Kenyon was clearly there also in the ones that are from either Tuesday or Wednesday night.

    105. flossy

      thenamestsam: If you actually click through to the source of those pictures the ones that are supposedly from Tuesday night are dated May 2. Unless I’m misunderstanding it looks like they’re actually from last night, not from Tuesday night. Still not exactly brilliant to be out partying at all in the middle of a series, but it doesn’t seem like it was the night before the game and I’d be very surprised if his behavior wasn’t somewhat common. I didn’t go through all the pictures but Kenyon was clearly there also in the ones that are from either Tuesday or Wednesday night.

      I think the date of the post is May 2 (today). I suppose the photos could be from last night, but the post I linked to says they have pics of him at about half a dozen different clubs on Mon/Tues night. I guess the best case interpretation is that JR went straight from shitting the bed at MSG out the clubs, which is not a whole lot better?

      Details aside, this seems like it would be an opportune time for him to stay home and read a damn book, or maybe watch some tape of himself taking the ball to the rack instead of doing the ol’ hungover chuck and duck.

    106. Hubert Davis

      That site is blocked at my office. Is there any actual proof that they weren’t photos from January posted today? We can’t really kill him without knowing this source is credible and those photos are really recent.

    107. Brian Cronin

      I am unsure if clubbing is even a big deal for an NBA player when they have a night game the next day, but JR should know enough that it looks bad, so he should probably try to avoid it. Not a big deal, though, I don’t think. Now if it was the night before a day game, then that is ungood.

      As for Jordan Crawford…wow…if he really said that (and I tend to believe he did), then that is one of the most outrageous bits I’ve ever seen from a bench player. You just do not talk shit like that in the NBA if you’re a scrub. It doesn’t make any sense.

    108. MeloDrama

      Hubert Davis:
      Here is the statistical breakdown of how crap Melo has been in this series:

      eFG% 2012/13 reg season: .502
      eFG% 2013 playoffs: .423

      TS% 2012/13 reg season: .560
      TS% 2013 playoffs: .494

      AST% 2012/13 reg season: 14.1
      AST% 2013 playoffs: 7.0

      PER 2012/13 reg season: 24.8
      PER 2013 playoffs: 19.6

      ORTG 2012/13 reg season: 112
      ORTG 2013 playoffs: 98

      It doesn’t have to be this way.The guy is stubborn as a mule.

      Oh, and if he comes out and scores 45 Friday playing the same way, that doesn’t change a thing.

      He is Boston’s only hope in this series.They can’t stop our pick and roll, they just manipulate Carmelo Anthony into not running it!

      I actually think its less about manipulation and more about personnel. The Celtics have a team full of interchangible defenders, which makes it difficult to get any of the mismatches that a pick and roll usually creates. Plus they can switch as much as they’d like.

    109. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: OKC isn’t making the finals lol. And the Rockets are as good on offense as they are bad at defense, even when Harden plays like crap. Guys like Delfino and Garcia get no credit for Houston’s success, but Houston has had an awesome bench all season, especially once Beverly replaced Toney Douglas.

      16th in the league in team DRTG is bad? They were better than the Knicks, by that stat…

    110. ruruland

      So, this is kind of what I expected to read here. Not sure if its valuable or edifying in any way if I post now, or after the Knicks win the series. But I suppose I’ll share some thoughts today, here in hour or so.

    111. ruruland

      er: or maybe stop letting boston beat us at our own game which is 3s

      last 2 games boston went 19-44 from three while the bockers went 12-42

      Right. You think that happens the next two games?

    112. er

      ruruland: Right. You think that happens the next two games?

      thats +21 and knicks lost by 13 over that span so its a big deal. And i strongly doubt that this will happen 2 more games in a row

    113. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: 16th in the league in team DRTG is bad? They were better than the Knicks, by that stat…

      They had real power forwards for most of the season, which helped prop the defense up. After the trade that went away, and now Asik and Greg Smith are pretty much the only plus defenders. On the other hand, asik is a legit DPOY candidate, played much better than Chandler on that end this year.

    114. er

      charlie widdoes @charliewiddoes

      Woodson said he likes Melo as point-forward because it puts pressure on guys to guard him in the pick-and-roll. #Knicks

      What do you guys think about this?

    115. Frank O.

      Knicks need to get over this mental hump.
      The game between their ears has been their weakness all year.
      Get past this group and watch out.
      Of course, they need to get past this group.

    116. thenamestsam

      Hubert Davis:
      That site is blocked at my office.Is there any actual proof that they weren’t photos from January posted today?We can’t really kill him without knowing this source is credible and those photos are really recent.

      Nope, none that I can tell.

      flossy: I think the date of the post is May 2 (today).I suppose the photos could be from last night, but the post I linked to says they have pics of him at about half a dozen different clubs on Mon/Tues night.I guess the best case interpretation is that JR went straight from shitting the bed at MSG out the clubs, which is not a whole lot better?

      Could be. It’s hard to tell. Like Brian said I doubt this is too unusual either way, but when you add up JR’s rep plus the suspension plus the abysmal play in game 5 plus the “He’s changed!” narrative it just doesn’t look so great. And yeah he probably would have been better off grabbing a book, or at least telling folks no pictures when you go out on game night.

    117. Frank O.

      er:
      charlie widdoes @charliewiddoes

      Woodson said he likes Melo as point-forward because it puts pressure on guys to guard him in the pick-and-roll. #Knicks

      What do you guys think about this?

      It might work if he passes…

    118. er

      Frank O.: It might work if he passes…

      lol….nah i think it will. Someone here said he was no 1 in the league as the ball handler in pnr so it could be promising

    119. Brian Cronin

      If the Knicks win in the playoffs with Melo as a point forward, that’d be pretty ironical.

    120. mcliff05

      I was out to dinner last night and my DVR crapped out. I came home and went through 4 of the 5 stages of grief (never got to acceptance). Currently Im stuck between being infuriated and petrified. I can not beleive the comments and general outlook of the people of this website. Being a Knick fan and a Yankee fan I can understand the frantic 180 that is being displayed but most, but a rational person would still give the Knicks a huge advantage to win the series. Unless of course you feel that Melo and the rest of the players are just completely fragile mentally.

      I think we were overconfident in game 4 and then overconfident in game 5 due to JRs comments and Kmarts antics. Boston wanted it more, we wanted it more games 1-3. They will show up with much more urgency in game 6, similarly to the 2nd halves of the first 2.

      You can say Im just an optimist but I have belief in this team, lets not overreact. That said if both Boston teams own record shattering playoff combacks against my teams, im becoming a monk.

    121. mr.JayP

      I wouldn’t doubt it that JR was out.

      From my “Sources”, he’s a regular.

    122. Hubert Davis

      ruruland: Right. You think that happens the next two games?

      You think Miami’s offense is going to be as feeble as Boston’s?

    123. MeloDrama

      I think its easy to poke holes in their offense right now after two losses. And maybe justified. But in this team’s defense:

      1. Boston’s defense is super elite, and even better IMO than its high regular season ranking due to Garnett’s health and #OldMenSavingLegs

      2. The Melo and Smith ball-dominance gave the Celtics fits for the first 3 games because those guys are two of the league’s best at creating shots without turnovers (Melo’s TO rate is in line with catch and shoot specialists like Kyle Korver … and Smith is even better). That’s been critical to our offensive success this season because we’re typically getting more shots.

      3. We knew the Celtics were going to stymie our pick and roll. That leads to more iso ball than you’d like. But the iso ball, at least, starves a Celtics team of turnovers to run off of, and they don’t have the PG to consistently create easy baskets off of misses.

      We lost game 3 because we turned it over at a much higher rate than usual. We lost game 4 because the Celtics shot way above their heads on threes. The Knicks aren’t off the hook for those games, of course – they lost by coughing it up and not defending the perimeter well enough – but I’d be surprised if Boston can sustain this for 2 more games.

    124. MeloDrama

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: 16th in the league in team DRTG is bad? They were better than the Knicks, by that stat…

      It’s mediocre. They looked worse than they were defensively because they play at such a ridiculous pace.

      The Knicks D on the whole was pretty average-poor this season and I think everyone understood coming in that they’d have to pick it up to succeed in the playoffs. They have done that so far.

    125. er

      Hubert Davis: You think Miami’s offense is going to be as feeble as Boston’s?

      they dont match up well with the knicks that well defensively though

    126. Hubert Davis

      RuRu I hope you’re whole thing tonight isn’t going to be about how we’ll still beat Boston, their shooting was exceptional, etc etc etc.

      I think most of us still expect to win this series.

      The real issue is the transformation of our 3rd ranked offense into a putrid pile of garbage as the result of a massive increase in ISO sets and how that projects to our chances in future rounds. We can’t count on Amar’e to come back and save everything. This needs to be fixed internally.

    127. Hubert Davis

      er: they dont match up well with the knicks that well defensively though

      They will if we run this offense.

    128. ruruland

      er: thats +21 and knicks lost by 13 over that span so its a big deal. And i strongly doubt that this will happen 2 more games in a row

      It’s funny. When the Celtics lost those first three games, it was because they were a terrible old team. Nevermind the fact that their healthy lineups that included Green, Bass, Garnett, Bradley, and Pierce had actually performed at a very high level.

      Nevermind that just last year Boston beat Miami three straight in the playoffs, and prior to those three games lost to Miami in OT.

      Oh, but Rondo!!

      Did you know that during that three game winning streak against Miami, Rondo posted a .439 TS with a 17 turnover % and a 104 offensive rating all while not being guarded?

      Is it possible that Jeff Green, who’s posted a .583 TS on higher usage than Rondo in this series, played better defense and actually forced the Knicks to guard the perimeter, has at least somewhat come close to replicated Rondo’s impact?

      It’s a two game losing streak in the playoffs to a team much better than it’s regular season record.

    129. ruruland

      Frank O.:
      Knicks need to get over this mental hump.
      The game between their ears has been their weakness all year.
      Get past this group and watch out.
      Of course, they need to get past this group.

      Yes, this is actually a pretty normal thing historically. It is mental hump. Boston was not going down without swinging. Now it’s the Knicks turn to play well again and finish it off, get the monkey off the back.

    130. Brian Cronin

      Who was it that coined “ironical”? I want to say Marbury. Was it him?

    131. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: They had real power forwards for most of the season, which helped prop the defense up. After the trade that went away, and now Asik and Greg Smith are pretty much the only plus defenders. On the other hand, asik is a legit DPOY candidate, played much better than Chandler on that end this year.

      Dude, sometimes I think you just make this shit up.

      http://www.82games.com/1213/12HOU16.HTM

      Patrick Patterson

      Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
      ON 109.7
      OFF 106.3
      +3.4

      And Cole Aldrich played a whopping 238 minutes.

      I really think you make this shit up.

    132. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      MeloDrama: It’s mediocre. They looked worse than they were defensively because they play at such a ridiculous pace.

      It’s mediocre, but their offense is so good that it doesn’t matter.

      Being 6th in Ortg and 16th in Drtg means you are a really good team. Their SRS drives that point home. People can bitch about how individual stats are misleading, but their team stats are quite strong for an “overrated” playoff team.

    133. flossy

      Brian Cronin:
      Who was it that coined “ironical”? I want to say Marbury. Was it him?

      I think Starbury’s word was “factorial” (to mean “factual”).

    134. er

      Brian Cronin: Who was it that coined “ironical”? I want to say Marbury. Was it him?

      fwiw flavor flav coined fantasical, and i think ironical is actually a word

    135. Brian Cronin

      Ironical is a word, but the incorrect usage of it as “That thing is ironical” is more recent, I think. But honestly, I’m probably just confusing it with Starbury’s hilarious invention of factorial.

    136. jon abbey

      is there anyone talking about the Celtics’ obvious flopping today, or has that been entirely overlooked? if Garnett doesn’t get disciplined for that cartwheel after Martin hit him, the league should just STFU about flopping forever because it doesn’t get much more flagrant than that. Pierce had a bad one too, I think Bass was the third.

    137. er

      Brian Cronin:
      Ironical is a word, but the incorrect usage of it as “That thing is ironical” is more recent, I think. But honestly, I’m probably just confusing it with Starbury’s hilarious invention of factorial.

      Man that’s funny as hell , I need to google this statement now

    138. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Dude, sometimes I think you just make this shit up.

      http://www.82games.com/1213/12HOU16.HTM

      Patrick Patterson

      Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
      ON 109.7
      OFF 106.3
      +3.4

      And Cole Aldrich played a whopping 238 minutes.

      I really think you make this shit up.

      They also lost Marcus Morris, and on/off stats say the Rockets are better with Harden off the court than on. Guess Harden sucks then. Also who the fuck cares about Cole Aldrich? Do you just make up other people’s arguments in your head and then respond to those? You’re the guy that just said the Nuggets should play McGee , a horrendous defender, so that their perimeter defense should improve

    139. ruruland

      Hubert Davis:
      RuRu I hope you’re whole thing tonight isn’t going to be about how we’ll still beat Boston, their shooting was exceptional, etc etc etc.

      I think most of us still expect to win this series.

      The real issue is the transformation of our 3rd ranked offense into a putrid pile of garbage as the result of a massive increase in ISO sets and how that projects to our chances in future rounds.We can’t count on Amar’e to come back and save everything.This needs to be fixed internally.

      1. The Celtics shooting was exceptional, but you expect a game or two of above normal shooting from Boston with guys like Terry and Pierce. The Knicks missed a lot of open shots. That will not continue indefinitely.

      2. MeloDrama and I have talked about this the whole week.

      Here is what Boston does. It hugs on shooters in the pick and roll, and turns the high screen/role into a two on two game between Felton/Chandler and Bradley (pg)/Garnett.

      Felton has fared quite well when he gets to the rim on the pick and roll, but most of the time he doesn’t, which makes the offense reset set into an extend isolation.

      Isolations are up, not because pick and rolls are down (pick and rolls are up), but because the spot-up shots that normally result from pick and roll are turning into isolations.

      Again, Synergy has gotten into the wrong hands. It’s totally truncated analysis.

      It looks like the Knicks pick and roll is doing great, but it’s not at all because of how Boston is defending it.

      Melo and JR need to play better and they will to close this series out. Everything will be fine. This is a great test and these are great reps.

      I honestly don’t think either Miami or Indiana matches up on defense as well as Boston.

    140. Brian Cronin

      is there anyone talking about the Celtics’ obvious flopping today, or has that been entirely overlooked? if Garnett doesn’t get disciplined for that cartwheel after Martin hit him, the league should just STFU about flopping forever because it doesn’t get much more flagrant than that. Pierce had a bad one too, I think Bass was the third.

      It sure does seem like the league doesn’t particularly care about flopping unless it’s by foreign players (because of the stigma from football flopping).

    141. johnlocke

      He hangs out in the meatpacking a lot. Seen him out a few times and EVERY time it was followed by a subpar game. Just can’t trust that dude to be the number two on a championship team. The Griffin club in NYC is one if his favorites…haha

      mr.JayP:
      I wouldn’t doubt it that JR was out.

      From my “Sources”, he’s a regular.

    142. ruruland

      Also, the team is being tested just as its fans are; there is far greater reward in maintaining your core belief about the team during the down.

      That’s not say we all don’t react emotionally to two bad games of course, nor that we shouldn’t critique them up and down, but I think at some point you show your true colors.

      The Knicks are going to win this series. Barring injury they’ll win the next as well. Melo and JR will redeem themselves.

      Clear eyes, full hearts.

    143. AvonBarksdale

      I don’t know where i would be without this board to just deal with what i saw yesterday, Melo and Woodson and JR and Kenyon but mostly Woodson really really showed us how dumb they are. How come Woodson didn’t push for JR to drive to the basket to draw early fouls on KG?? How come Woodson didn’t play cope in our losses? How come Woodson didn’t demand we move the ball or run pnr? He’s got to coach these idiots, obviously they want to do well for the team but they are caught up in the bullshit all they needed was a little more guidance and our rotations that were working and pushing the ball up the court. It’s pathetic, i love this team but id rather watch cope post up KG or PP if there is gonna be so much ISO. I’m glad you all see that Melo isn’t all to blame but are holding him accountable for sucking so hard. we are still good to beat the celtics but don’t be surprised in the slightest if PP and Terry keep hitting crazy shots in our face and Coach Woodson plays Quentin Richardson for 20 minutes.

    144. AvonBarksdale

      Also Raymond Felton is clearly the best, god bless him. He’s looked invincible on the offense, smart decisions and nasty instincts.

    145. ruruland

      AvonBarksdale:
      Also Raymond Felton is clearly the best, god bless him. He’s looked invincible on the offense, smart decisions and nasty instincts.

      He’s taking advantage of the Celtics defensive strategy, as he’s quite capable of. But honestly, would like to see him give the Knicks a 30 point game if they’re going to hug shooters and guard the dive man as they are.

    146. nicos

      ruruland: 1.
      Here is what Boston does. It hugs on shooters in the pick and roll, and turns the high screen/role into a two on two game between Felton/Chandler and Bradley (pg)/Garnett.

      Felton has fared quite well when he gets to the rim on the pick and roll, but most of the time he doesn’t, which makes the offense reset set into an extend isolation.

      Isolations are up, not because pick and rolls are down (pick and rolls are up), but because the spot-up shots that normally result from pick and roll are turning into isolations.

      It looks like the Knicks pick and roll is doing great, but it’s not at all because of how Boston is defending it.

      The pnr has also been hampered by lack of kickout shooters- Novak’s barely played, Kidd’s been horrendous in that role, and JR missed a game and shot horribly last night. Add to that, they’re cheating way off Kidd, Prigs, and Shump so there’s extra help making it tougher for Felton- it basically has to be a quick burst straight line or nothing. I’d actually like to see them look for Shump in the corner a bit more- he’s shot the three really well in the series thus far- the only besides Novak shooting them well at all. If he can hit a few and get the floor spread a bit better, it’ll help open things up a bit. It’s funny but on a team full of veterans Shump’s been the least tight of any player outside of Felton- he’s playing both ends fearlessly. If he get’s his leaping ability back (which should help him finish at the rim) next year he could be an absolute monster.

    147. thenamestsam

      ruruland: 1.

      Again, Synergy has gotten into the wrong hands. It’s totally truncated analysis.

      So, so, so true. A lot of people don’t seem to really understand what the synergy numbers tell you. A lower percentage of Knicks plays being recorded as PnR in synergy by no means tells you that the Knicks are running fewer pick and rolls. It tells you that they’re having fewer of the plays finished by either the pick and roll ball handler or the roll man. There are a few reasons that might be the case. Running less pick and roll is only one of them, and honestly I don’t think it’s the case here. They try to run it a lot, but Boston’s D against it has been very good. KG is truly amazing.

      Also agree with you RE:Felton. He’s playing well, and I especially love his work on the defensive end, but his work on offense is being overrated. On every pick and roll Boston is first making sure they take away open 3s off penetration, second making sure they cut off the lob to Chandler and then worrying about Felton last. They’re basically daring him to beat them and given that I’d say his production is only decent.

    148. yellowboy90

      I still can’t believe that the Cs had not had a defensive 3 seconds called on them.

    149. nicos

      thenamestsam: So, so, so true. A lot of people don’t seem to really understand what the synergy numbers tell you. A lower percentage of Knicks plays being recorded as PnR in synergy by no means tells you that the Knicks are running fewer pick and rolls. It tells you that they’re having fewer of the plays finished by either the pick and roll ball handler or the roll man. There are a few reasons that might be the case. Running less pick and roll is only one of them, and honestly I don’t think it’s the case here. They try to run it a lot, but Boston’s D against it has been very good. KG is truly amazing.

      Also agree with you RE:Felton. He’s playing well, and I especially love his work on the defensive end, but his work on offense is being overrated. On every pick and roll Boston is first making sure they take away open 3s off penetration, second making sure they cut off the lob to Chandler and then worrying about Felton last. They’re basically daring him to beat them and given that I’d say his production is only decent.

      As I mentioned above, it not so much that they’re taking away the open threes off of the pnr (though they’re certainly paying attention to Novak and JR) it’s that a lot of those kick-outs are going to Kidd who has someone mentioned above has suddenly turned into Landry Fields. Prigs hasn’t been much better.

    150. er

      thenamestsam: So, so, so true. A lot of people don’t seem to really understand what the synergy numbers tell you. A lower percentage of Knicks plays being recorded as PnR in synergy by no means tells you that the Knicks are running fewer pick and rolls. It tells you that they’re having fewer of the plays finished by either the pick and roll ball handler or the roll man. There are a few reasons that might be the case. Running less pick and roll is only one of them, and honestly I don’t think it’s the case here. They try to run it a lot, but Boston’s D against it has been very good. KG is truly amazing.

      Also agree with you RE:Felton. He’s playing well, and I especially love his work on the defensive end, but his work on offense is being overrated. On every pick and roll Boston is first making sure they take away open 3s off penetration, second making sure they cut off the lob to Chandler and then worrying about Felton last. They’re basically daring him to beat them and given that I’d say his production is only decent.

      good points here. The kidd and novak making no 3s is huge too

    151. thenamestsam

      nicos: As I mentioned above, it not so much that they’re taking away the open threes off of the pnr (though they’re certainly paying attention to Novak and JR) it’s that a lot of those kick-outs are going to Kidd who has someone mentioned above has suddenly turned into Landry Fields.Prigs hasn’t been much better.

      That’s fair. Basically I think their help defense has been pretty close to perfect. They’re not helping off the wrong guys, which is why Novak, JR, Melo and Shump (from the corners) have struggled to get looks. And they’re giving Kidd and Prigs just the right amount of space to draw passes to them without allowing them the all day kind of time that those two need to actually get a shot up. They have a plan and they’re executing it.

      During KG’s psychotic rant after the game last night he said basically “We know what they’re going to run, they know what we’re going to run, and now it’s just about who wants it” and while that’s basically the most reductive analysis ever I do think he’s right to a certain extent. I don’t think that there’s a tactical panacea that’s going to unlock this series for the Knicks at this point. We have to make some shots, especially our best players. In make or break playoff games it often comes down to that.

    152. MeloDrama

      ruruland:

      I honestly don’t think either Miami or Indiana matches up on defense as well as Boston.

      Nobody does. Boston’s defense is the biggest bitch in the league to play against because of how ungodly good Garnett is, how long they are collectively, how 1-5 (unless Terry’s out there) they can guard everyone reasonably on the floor. Boston’s built an incredible defense …

      … but it comes at the cost of their offense. Their bigs are athletic and serviceable even against guards, but they can’t overwhelm you on the O-glass. Bradley is an incredible luxury defensively at PG, but he’s not really a point guard. They can’t create many transition opportunities.

      You can make Hibbert and West run for Indiana in ways that don’t bother Boston’s bigs. Indy is dangerous because they can beat us on the O-glass, Boston really can’t. Miami can beat us because James is an alien. Boston doesn’t have him.

      But Boston has the best defense of the three.

    153. mr.JayP

      johnlocke:
      He hangs out in the meatpacking a lot. Seen him out a few times and EVERY time it was followed by a subpar game. Just can’t trust that dude to be the number two on a championship team. The Griffin club in NYC is one if his favorites…haha

      I love the meatpacking district. Only during the late spring/summer time tho.

      An acquaintance has mentioned she always sees him at the club she goes to.

    154. Juany8

      MeloDrama: Nobody does. Boston’s defense is the biggest bitch in the league to play against because of how ungodly good Garnett is, how long they are collectively, how 1-5 (unless Terry’s out there) they can guard everyone reasonably on the floor. Boston’s built an incredible defense …

      … but it comes at the cost of their offense. Their bigs are athletic and serviceable even against guards, but they can’t overwhelm you on the O-glass. Bradley is an incredible luxury defensively at PG, but he’s not really a point guard. They can’t create many transition opportunities.

      You can make Hibbert and West run for Indiana in ways that don’t bother Boston’s bigs. Indy is dangerous because they can beat us on the O-glass, Boston really can’t. Miami can beat us because James is an alien. Boston doesn’t have him.

      But Boston has the best defense of the three.

      Nobody’s really addressed it, but Boston actually has a better defensive team than last year when they took on Miami. Sure they lost Rondo, but Bradley is better on defense and he didn’t play last year. Jeff Green is a perfect small ball 4 for teams like Miami and the Knicks, and they are playing some pretty large wings right now with Pierce at the freaking 2. When they happen to make 50% of their 3’s as well, they are a tough team to win against. They just can’t score in part because Shump has dominated Paul Pierce

    155. cgreene

      I am very nervous that this team is not mentally focused at all. Sitting there talking about how/why they shouldn’t have worn black not about ball movement and offensive schemes? This typical Knicks distraction JV bullshit. Why do the Knicks always ALWAYS embarrass themselves? Last year it’s Amare and the fire extinguisher. Now it’s JR and wearing black. Just STFU and play ball and win. Thanks for listening.

    156. d-mar

      If the Nets manage to lose this game to the Bulls, who are missing Hinrich and Deng, that is just a complete disgrace. There’s just no other way to frame it, they should not lose to a team whose only offensive threats are Nate Robinson chucks and Carlos Boozer fadeaway rainbows.

    157. jon abbey

      um, David Lee has been cleared to play and might get some minutes tonight? I did not see that coming.

    158. alchpe17

      Can someone please explain the reason for the sudden drop in playingtime for Copeland?

    159. Brian Cronin

      Can someone please explain the reason for the sudden drop in playingtime for Copeland?

      Apparently an injury. The Knicks are “surprisingly” being secretive about it.

    160. Brian Cronin

      um, David Lee has been cleared to play and might get some minutes tonight? I did not see that coming.

      Seriously? That’s nuts.

    161. Brian Cronin

      “Medically cleared to play” means he’ll play next season, right? That’s what I learned from Derrick Rose.

    162. Brian Cronin

      Blatche just took (and was blocked on) one of the ugliest shots you’ll ever see.

    163. Brian Cronin

      He made the second. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player look more nervous taking a free throw before.

    164. Brian Cronin

      Wow, Carlisimo, seriously? He had Blatche in the backcourt and got the the pass and got fouled. So dumb.

    165. Brian Cronin

      Blatche surprisingly nailed both free throws. Bulls down 3 with 19 seconds to go and no timeouts.

    166. Brian Cronin

      There will be a Game 7 with Brooklyn and Chicago. Deron Williams “won” a jump ball against Noah (really, Noah just tipped it poorly)!

    167. Brian Cronin

      Weird no-call on Gerald Wallace literally wrapping his arms Belinelli to prevent him from getting the ball on an inbounds with 10 seconds left.

    168. ruruland

      Juany8: Nobody’s really addressed it, but Boston actually has a better defensive team than last year when they took on Miami. Sure they lost Rondo, but Bradley is better on defense and he didn’t play last year. Jeff Green is a perfect small ball 4 for teams like Miami and the Knicks, and they are playing some pretty large wings right now with Pierce at the freaking 2. When they happen to make 50% of their 3?s as well, they are a tough team to win against. They just can’t score in part because Shump has dominated Paul Pierce

      That’s just it. I actually have been talking about Boston’s superior defense all series, in this thread even.

      They are the best defensive team remaining in the playoffs.

    169. Juany8

      ruruland: That’s just it. I actually have been talking about Boston’s superior defense all series, in this thread even.

      They are the best defensive team remaining in the playoffs.

      Ok to be fair you tried to argue they might actually be as good on offense without Rondo. And I don’t think they’re the best defensive team in the playoffs, just in the East, I’d take Memphis on D against anyone right now.

    170. Juany8

      Golden State doing a spectacularly bad job of rebounding. Mark jackson giving George Karl a run for his money with odd ball lineups too lol. Do not get why in the world he would play Lee in this series, or why he would start Carl Landry then only play him 4 minutes in the first quarter. You win 3 games in a row, you don’t immediately go away from what was working because of one loss lol.

    171. ruruland

      Juany8: Ok to be fair you tried to argue they might actually be as good on offense without Rondo. And I don’t think they’re the best defensive team in the playoffs, just in the East, I’d take Memphis on D against anyone right now.

      Yeah, Memphis is excellent. IDK.

    172. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      And right on cue, Karl pulls McGee so the Warriors can score 8 straight points. What a fucking joke of an NBA coach.

    173. max fisher-cohen

      I think it’s a good point about Boston’s defense. The Knick offense, like most offenses, is solvable. It just requires discipline. Prigioni and Kidd are extremely smart players in that they know how to manipulate defenses impressively well given their offensive limitations, but when you don’t fall for their tricks (let kidd shoot or force Prigioni to dribble and then let him shoot), they become deadweight on offense.

      Usually, Felton is not too much of an upgrade in this department, but he has played out of his mind in this series. 56% of his FGAs are at the rim! That’s a 17% jump compared to the regular season. Meanwhile, he’s jumped from a pretty bad 52% conversion rate on those shots up to a very respectable 57% in this series. In the context of Boston’s defense, 57% is amazing.

      This doesn’t really matter though because Boston is letting him shoot, challenging him to become the scorer by committing to Chandler/Martin and holding tight on 3 point shooters.

      I really don’t see the Knick offense getting any better than what it has been on average this whole series. They’re going to have to rely on their defense, and for them that’s big time mental. We’ve seen them get rattled before against trash talking, physical teams, and the results usually aren’t pretty.

      Right now, I still give the knicks a 80% chance at winning this series (they do, after all, only have to win 1 out of 2), but this is a team with a lot of headcases. I definitely see a chance that the the Knicks fold mentally here. The “play one half of defense” thing isn’t going to win this series for the Knicks.

    174. Juany8

      Wow just saw the worst call ever in favor of Denver. Lawson ran Curry into Bogut… offensive foul Bogut. Am I the only one that feels the refs have gone to shit in the past few games? Just overall inconsistency and crappiness…

    175. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8:
      Wow just saw the worst call ever in favor of Denver. Lawson ran Curry into Bogut… offensive foul Bogut. Am I the only one that feels the refs have gone to shit in the past few games? Just overall inconsistency and crappiness…

      Did you miss the one where Curry landed on Lawson?

    176. Juany8

      Curry and Thompson 2-13 and Golden State only down by 2. These teams are screwed against San Antonio lol, they might be sweeping their way into the Western Conference finals again.

    177. BigBlueAL

      Juany8:
      Curry and Thompson 2-13 and Golden State only down by 2. These teams are screwed against San Antonio lol, they might be sweeping their way into the Western Conference finals again.

      How about the Heat playing the Bulls/Nets winner after they get only 1 day off after Game 7. Mon/Wed in Miami will most likely be 20pt blowouts. Will be absolutely shocked if Bulls/Nets win more than 1 game vs the Heat.

    178. Juany8

      Bogut is playing amazing right now. If he stays healthy, Golden State is going to be stacked.

    179. johnlocke

      He is so much fun to watch. He officially needs a nickname…
      Stephen “Spicy Hot” Curry

      Juany8:
      Lol how do you leave Steph Curry open?

    180. Juany8

      The Nuggets have got to be the stupidest team in the playoffs. Instead of holding for the last shot, they rush into 2 Corey Brewer 3’s, and then Corey Brewer fouls after nearly airballing both. Why is brewer even playing?

    181. johnlocke

      Once again looks like the team with the transcendent superstar…beats the strong, well balanced team with no all-stars. happens every year in the playoffs

    182. Brian Cronin

      Embarrassing performance by Denver. Hopefully Boston gives a similar performance tomorrow night!

    183. Juany8

      johnlocke:
      Once again looks like the team with the transcendent superstar…beats the strong, well balanced team with no all-stars. happens every year in the playoffs

      Golden State has 2 right now. Bogut is playing like a total monster in this game. He kept them in it until Curry got going.

    184. Juany8

      Worst thing Golden State can do right now is get complacent. This game is not over, the Nuggets are capable of scoring points in bursts as well as anyone.

    185. Brian Cronin

      I guess, but I dunno, I am pretty sure a 13 point lead with 6 minutes to go when you have Steph Curry on your team (for shots and for free throws) is pretty darn safe.

    186. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8:
      The Nuggets have got to be the stupidest team in the playoffs. Instead of holding for the last shot, they rush into 2 Corey Brewer 3?s, and then Corey Brewer fouls after nearly airballing both. Why is brewer even playing?

      Because Karl is a genius and sees in Brewer what no one else does.

    187. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      I guess, but I dunno, I am pretty sure a 13 point lead with 6 minutes to go when you have Steph Curry on your team (for shots and for free throws) is pretty darn safe.

      Lol you were saying?

    188. max fisher-cohen

      feel like I’m watching NCAA basketball with both teams just sabotaging themselves with awful play.

    189. Juany8

      Number 1 lesson of the playoffs: the series is not over until the clock hits all zeroes and you’ve won 4 games. You take anything for granted and it comes back to haunt you.

    190. Brian Cronin

      Ha! Okay, that was kind of surprising. And yes, Max, I have felt that way in a lot of these games. Almost an appalling level of recklessness and ineptness.

    191. Juany8

      As I mentioned before, both of these teams are screwed against San Antonio lol. I don’t think they win more than a game in the second round, and only becuase they might get hot from 3.

    192. Juany8

      As I mentioned earlier, the refs have been pretty bad these playoffs lol. I don’t like the nuggets but that was a pretty bad call.

    193. Brian Cronin

      Wow, the refs have been so terrible on both ends of the court. Hilariously bad.

    194. Brian Cronin

      The worst part about the McGee call was that they huddled to get it right and got it COMPLETELY wrong.

    195. johnlocke

      Game’s over….

      I think the Warriors def get a couple games at home in the next series..they’ll miss David Lee though…

    196. yellowboy90

      They have a 3 on 2 if they play it right since they are doubling Curry high. Flash Green or Harrison.

    197. yellowboy90

      I know reggie miller doing the game but dang. Flash back moment for real.

    198. Juany8

      Golden State doing everything in their power to lose this game. Didn’t THCJ say a few days ago playoff experience doesn’t matter? LOL

    199. johnlocke

      LOL … if this were the Knicks I would never ever trust that the game was over, until it ended..

      Juany8:
      Stop calling the game guys! Learn from the freaking Knicks series lol

    200. Juany8

      A Harrison Barnes pull up 3 has got to be one of the worse outcomes you can have on a late possession no?

    201. Douglas

      GS couldn’t be trying harder to blow this game. Just a horrorshow of bad basketball decisions.

    202. yellowboy90

      Run a screen for curry in the corner or wing then have the screen man slip in for an easy layup.

    203. Douglas

      Juany8:
      A Harrison Barnes pull up 3 has got to be one of the worse outcomes you can have on a late possession no?

      Not just that — running down the shot clock and clearing the floor for a Harrison Barnes iso pull-up 3.

    204. johnlocke

      OMFG

      Douglas:
      GS couldn’t be trying harder to blow this game. Just a horrorshow of bad basketball decisions.

    205. BigBlueAL

      yellowboy90:
      I know reggie miller doing the game but dang. Flash back moment for real.

      At least when the Knicks blew that game it happened relatively quickly (final 18 secs). This game tonight has been a long, torturous process.

    206. Juany8

      No matter what happens the rest of this series, I’m calling a sweep for the Spurs the next round. These teams will get out executed to death.

    207. BigBlueAL

      Im still trying to figure out how that was out on the Nuggets, Brewer clearly saved the ball cleanly.

    208. Juany8

      Douglas: Not just that — running down the shot clock and clearing the floor for a Harrison Barnes iso pull-up 3.

      Lol you’re right I should have specified

    209. BigBlueAL

      I dont know what was worse down the stretch, the Warriors play or the refereeing.

    210. Brian Cronin

      Wilson Chandler can at least make Ibaka feel better. Just tell him to watch that miss.

    211. johnlocke

      Every Denver fan just has to be MISERABLE right now.. the 6th seed loses their All-Star in game one, and you still lose the series in SIX games. Wow, just wow

    212. Juany8

      Gotta give Golden State credit, they are undefeated the first round of the playoffs for the history of the franchise

    213. Brian Cronin

      Gotta give Golden State credit, they are undefeated the first round of the playoffs for the history of the franchise

      Ha! Sort of like how the Marlins have won the World Series every time they have made it into the playoffs.

    214. BigBlueAL

      Juany8:
      Gotta give Golden State credit, they are undefeated the first round of the playoffs for the history of the franchise

      They lost in the 1st round in 1992 and 1994. I knew for sure they lost in 1994 (Webber’s rookie year) but I was curious if they had lost any other time in the 1st round in the current playoffs era and they lost in 1992 as well which I didnt remember (it was a famous series though, the one with a bunch of famous Shawn Kemp dunks lol).

    215. jon abbey

      wow, what a horrendously played fourth quarter both ways.

      DEN loses in the first round again, it’s adorable that THCJ blames Karl for the loss.

    216. Brian Cronin

      Seriously, though, am I wrong and this is just the way it is every year or are we seeing a lot worse play in the playoffs this year? It seems that way to me. A ton of inept play. It could be the injuries, where lesser players have to play more minutes, but I dunno, I think that there are injuries every year. So I’m probably just imagining things, but that fourth quarter tonight fit right in with a bunch of fourth quarters (and third quarters and seconds and firsts) in this year’s playoffs so far.

    217. Brian Cronin

      By the way, when’s the last time the NBA had four Game 6’s on a single night like they have tomorrow night? That’s awesome (well, except for the fact that the Knicks should have already won their series by this point, of course).

    218. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      jon abbey:
      wow, what a horrendously played fourth quarter both ways.

      DEN loses in the first round again, it’s adorable that THCJ blames Karl for the loss.

      Corey Brewer and Wilson Chandler, WP All-Stars

      55 MP
      6-25 for 13 points (!!!!!)
      0 FTA (!!!!!!!)
      3 REB (1 ORB)
      3 AST
      2 TO, 4 STL
      10 PF

      Yeah, it’s George Karl’s fault that they played that much. It actually is.

    219. jon abbey

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:

      Yeah, it’s George Karl’s fault that they played that much. It actually is.

      I know! they should have gone with that Koufos/McGee/Faried front line, maybe Mozgov at the 2.

      anyway, there’s two ends of the floor, which you never seem to remember (again, adorable), and they held GS to 92 at home, which is pretty impressive. unfortunately for you and other Nugget fans, their half court offense sucks no matter who is in there, not a lot of good answers for Karl.

    220. nicos

      As loathe as I am to agree with THCJ, Karl really didn’t help much- Chandler and Brewer were bad but Koufus was even worse. +/- can be deceiving but his -21 was well earned with just atrocious defense every time he got put in high screen situations- there’s no way he should have played 21 minutes. That said, even with a healthy Gallo this team isn’t close to being championship calibre.

    221. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Corey Brewer and Wilson Chandler, WP All-Stars

      55 MP
      6-25 for 13 points (!!!!!)
      0 FTA (!!!!!!!)
      3 REB (1 ORB)
      3 AST
      2 TO, 4 STL
      10 PF

      Yeah, it’s George Karl’s fault that they played that much. It actually is.

      It’s a serious question, do you think Denver wins the series if Faried, McGee, Koufos, Miller and Iguodola (5 best WP players) played 36-40 mpg a night?

      How did the Nuggets lose to a team that only played its second and third best player (Lee and Landry) 131 minutes in the series?

    222. massive

      Can you believe Warriors fans really didn’t want to get rid of the black hole that is Monta Ellis? Bogut got them 14 and 21 with some great defensive plays tonight. Great trade and great win for one of the best fanbases in the NBA. Glad they can have a relatively young winner

    223. ruruland

      Check this out Jowles fans:

      Denver’s best player (Faried), second best player (Koufos), and fourth best player (McGee) combined to play 338 minutes in the series.

      The Warriors second and third best players by WP are Lee and Landry, both power forwards. They combined to play 131 minutes in the series.

      So, a 55 WP team loses to a 45 WP win team when the 45 win team played its best WP players significantly more.

      Jowles, you lose again.

    224. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:

      It’s a serious question, do you think Denver wins the series if Faried, McGee, Koufos, Miller and Iguodola (5 best WP players) played 36-40 mpg a night?

      How did the Nuggets lose to a team that only played its second and third best player (Lee and Landry) 131 minutes in the series?

    225. nicos

      It should also be noted that the only reason the game was as close as it was was that Golden State did everything in it’s power to give the game away- maybe the most inept stretch of basketball I’ve ever seen from a playoff team. If Karl’s rotations had been better it still would have taken a bunch of unforced errors by Golden State to win that game.

    226. jon abbey

      nicos:
      As loathe as I am to agree with THCJ, Karl really didn’t help much- Chandler and Brewer were bad but Koufus was even worse. +/- can be deceiving but his -21 was well earned with just atrocious defense every time he got put in high screen situations- there’s no way he should have played 21 minutes.That said, even with a healthy Gallo this team isn’t close to being championship calibre.

      but what were the better options? Iguodala and Lawson played 43 and 42 minutes, Faried was in foul trouble, I guess McGee could have played more, but he cut the rotation down to 8 guys as it was.

    227. ruruland

      In addition, Anthony might play more point forward to create easier scoring opportunities.

      “Basically they’ve shrunk our offense by just staying at home on shooters,” Woodson said. “So we’ve got to get the ball moving two or three passes more before we let it go, and not quick shooting as much.”

      Overall, Woodson doesn’t take issue with his team’s defense. After watching video of Wednesday night’s loss, he thought his players contested the Celtics’ shots down the stretch.

      “If you look at Paul [Pierce], he hit a couple of 3s with a man right in his face, which he’s capable of doing,” he said. “And then [Jeff] Green hit two 3s deep in the corner. So those are big buckets — even the shot that Garnett hit on Tyson [Chandler] at the top when it was, I think, about a four- to six-point game. … I think defensively we’re doing what we’re supposed to do. We’ve just got to figure out offensively.”

    228. yellowboy90

      I was wondering why they have not just bludgeon the Cs with pnr from Melo and Felton. Melo really needs to look for Chandler/Martin rolling. His passing will open up his shots.

    229. er

      yellowboy90:
      I was wondering why they have not just bludgeon the Cs with pnr from Melo and Felton. Melo really needs to look for Chandler/Martin rolling. His passing will open up his shots.

      ive been saying this all series

    230. ruruland

      yellowboy90:
      I was wondering why they have not just bludgeon the Cs with pnr from Melo and Felton. Melo really needs to look for Chandler/Martin rolling. His passing will open up his shots.

      Melo/Felton pnr was great in game two. haven’t seen much of it since.

    231. Juany8

      THCJ you need to get over the fact that the Nuggets were not contenders. Even their absolutely biggest detractors assumed they would win the first round. Golden state had the worst SRS in the Western Conference and David lee is supposed to be their second best player according to WP. And Klay Thompson and Jarret jack did just as poorly as Wilson chandler and Corey brewer, that’s hardly an excuse. When it comes down to it bogut and curry are both better than anyone Denver has, and neither of these teams are a serious threat to the Spurs anyways.

      And if you’re gonna blame Karl for everything, then we finally know why it is that Melo hasn’t been out of the first round. And he never lost to a team with a worse record lol.

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