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Friday, December 19, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Mar 01 2012)

  • [New York Times] Knicks 120, Cavaliers 103: Knicks Turn Slow Start Into Easy Finish (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:35:47 GMT)
    After trailing by 17 in the first half, the Knicks outscored Cleveland by 29 points in the final two quarters, with Steve Novak scoring 15 points during the run.

  • [New York Times] Texas Association Criticized for Ordering Jewish School Out of Playoffs (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:30:22 GMT)
    The mayor of Houston and Jeff Van Gundy have expressed concern over a Texas high school association’s decision not to reschedule the state semifinal game of a school whose players observe the Sabbath.

  • [New York Times] Kyrie Irving of Cavaliers Is Exceeding Expectations (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:40:17 GMT)
    Cleveland’s Kyrie Irving, the top choice in the 2011 N.B.A. draft, is a top candidate for rookie of the year honors.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Kevin Durant Scores 23 as Thunder Beat 76ers, 92-88 (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:40:27 GMT)
    Russell Westbrook had 22 points and 13 rebounds for league-leading Oklahoma City, and James Harden added 16 points.

  • [New York Times] Masked Kobe Leads Lakers’ Blowout of Timberwolves (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:08:22 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant had 31 points, seven rebounds and eight assists while playing with a clear mask over his broken nose, and the Los Angeles Lakers returned from the All-Star break with their 17th consecutive win over the Minnesota Timberwolves, 104-85 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Rose Scores 29 as Streaking Bulls Stop Spurs 96-89 (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 05:05:26 GMT)
    Derrick Rose scored 29 points and the Chicago Bulls stayed on a roll by cooling off the streaking San Antonio Spurs 96-89 Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Lawson Scores 18 as Nuggets Beat Blazers 104-95 (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:41:40 GMT)
    Ty Lawson had 18 points and nine assists in his return to the lineup, Kenneth Faried scored 13 points and grabbed 10 rebounds and the Denver Nuggets beat the Portland Trail Blazers 104-95 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Miles Scores 27 to Lift Jazz Over Rockets 104-83 (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:41:42 GMT)
    C.J. Miles scored a season-high 27 points and the Utah Jazz beat Houston 104-83 on Wednesday night, halting a four-game losing streak and the Rockets’ four-game winning streak.

  • [New York Times] Kleiza, DeRozan Lead Raptors Past Hornets 95-84 (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:14:26 GMT)
    Linas Kleiza and Demar DeRozan scored 21 points apiece and the Toronto Raptors rallied to beat the New Orleans Hornets 95-84 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Knicks Dig Deep to Roar Past Cavs in Second Half (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:57:20 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin was given a helping hand by fellow point guard Baron Davis as the New York Knicks made good use of their newly discovered depth to roar past the Cleveland Cavaliers 120-103 on Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] Gasol, Conley Lead Grizzlies Past Mavericks 96-85 (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:02:54 GMT)
    Marc Gasol had 22 points and 11 rebounds, and Mike Conley added 20 points and 10 assists as the Memphis Grizzlies defeated the Dallas Mavericks 96-85 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Knicks Storm Back, Beat Cavs 120-103 Behind Bench (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:50:25 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin checked back in, triggering the wave of cheers that accompany his every move at Madison Square Garden.

  • [New York Times] Pistons Too Much for Bobcats 109-94 (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 03:33:20 GMT)
    Rodney Stuckey scored 29 points and Greg Monroe added 19 points and a career-high 20 rebounds and the Detroit Pistons routed the Charlotte Bobcats 109-94 Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] Lee, Warriors Hold Off Hawks’ Rally, 85-82 (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 03:23:29 GMT)
    David Lee scored 22 points, including the go-ahead basket with 30 seconds remaining, and the Golden State Warriors answered a late comeback by Atlanta to beat the Hawks 85-82 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Rondo’s Triple-Double Leads Celtics Past Bucks (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 03:14:22 GMT)
    Rajon Rondo had 15 points, 11 rebounds and 10 assists to record his third triple-double of the season and lead the Boston Celtics to a 102-96 victory over the Milwaukee Bucks on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Kobe Bryant Cleared to Play After Concussion (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:11:15 GMT)
    Three days after Kobe Bryant broke his nose and got a concussion in the All-Star game, he strapped on a mask and went back to work.

  • [New York Times] The Closer: Lin and Davis Help Each Other (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:59:39 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin has been great for the Knicks, but Baron Davis’s stepping comfortably into the backup point guard role could be the key to the Knicks’ success.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 00:53:50 GMT)
    David West’s contributions to the Pacers are not showing up in the statistics, but they show on the court.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: John Scott Modifies His Criticism of Jeremy Lin (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 03:21:01 GMT)
    After watching a Knicks game two weeks ago as a member of the Chicago Blackhawks, John Scott, the newest Ranger, criticized Jeremy Lin’s defense. Now that they play for the same company, Scott said LIn “can even punch me in the hallway if he wants to.”

  • [New York Times] Durant, Westbrook Lead Thunder Over 76ers (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 02:56:33 GMT)
    Kevin Durant scored eight of his 23 points down the stretch to lead the Oklahoma City Thunder to a 92-88 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Magic Back From Break With 102-95 Win Over Wizards (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 02:56:30 GMT)
    Ryan Anderson had 23 points and 15 rebounds, and the Orlando Magic pulled away late in the fourth quarter Wednesday night and returned from the All-Star break with a 102-95 win over the lineup-shuffling Washington Wizards.

  • [New York Times] NBA’s Irving to Make a Decision on Australia or U.S. Soon (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 02:21:24 GMT)
    Cleveland Cavaliers point guard Kyrie Irving would make a decision shortly about whether he would opt to play for Australia at the London Olympics.

  • [New York Times] Lakers’ Bryant Symptom Free From Concussion (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 01:39:28 GMT)
    Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant suffered a broken nose and concussion during the All-Star Game but has been symptom free since Tuesday, the National Basketball Association (NBA)team said on Wednesday.

  • [New York Daily News] Magic act by Lin, Kyrie (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:31:00 GMT)
    The greatest point guard in NBA history not named Bob Cousy was at the Garden Wednesday night to see what all the fuss is about Jeremy Lin and to check out the top rookie playmaker in the game.

  • [New York Daily News] Cav Not: Novak shoots down Cleveland (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:28:48 GMT)
    Steve Novak’s second-half shooting and Baron Davis’ playmaking sparked the Knicks as they overcame a 17-point deficit to defeat the Cleveland Cavaliers 120-103. Jeremy Lin had 19 points and 13 assists.

  • [New York Daily News] Baron will make bench mark (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:10:44 GMT)
    Chris Mullin has seen Baron Davis at his best and worst with a low point coming last week in Miami when Davis went 0-for-7 in a loss to the Heat. But Mullin also remembers Davis as the point guard who led the Warriors to a first-round upset of the top-seeded Mavericks in 2007 and believes the veteran guard will help the Knicks this season.

  • [New York Daily News] Lin happy to share spotlight with Davis, Novak (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 05:54:13 GMT)
    It was not Linsane. Wednesday night, Jeremy Lin’s night was merely consistent. That was exactly the point guard wanted after a disastrous game against the Miami Heat Thursday night before the All-Star Break.

  • [New York Daily News] Irving son is like father at MSG (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 05:44:00 GMT)
    The man who taught Cavaliers rookie Kyrie Irving to explore all angles of the game sat courtside at Madison Square Garden Wednesday night. His father, Drederick, a bond analyst for Thomson Reuters, arrived in his courtside seat as the house lights went down and the Knicks were announced.

  • [New York Daily News] Linsanity must go on! (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:58:04 GMT)
    Not only did Jeremy Lin’s fairy tale erase public cynicism and bitterness from five months of labor strife, the Harvard-educated point guard also saved the Knicks’ season, his job and perhaps Mike D’Antoni’s.

  • [New York Daily News] Wilt’s 100 still stands tall 50 years later (Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:21:15 GMT)
    You drive down Chocolate Ave. and you look at the Hershey Kiss-shaped street lamps and in a minute you pull up to a Depression era arena that looks so much like a hangar you half expect to see World War II fighter jets flying out of it.

  • 82 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Mar 01 2012)

    1. danvt

      Great win in a classic trap game.

      Did Lin break his nose? His absence seemed to really effect the team in the first half. What a game from the kid, solidly outplaying the first pick in the draft.

      Also, on the CLE telecast they showed Melo all up in Lin about something toward the end of the game. Lin had just driven and been fouled, then a time out. Did he call an audible on a play designed for Melo (that’s what Austin Carr said)? Anyway, Lin talked to him for a second and then turned and walked to the bench and Anthony kept going at him with his back turned. Not a good sign in my opinion. Anybody have any perspective on this?

    2. tenebrous

      In the absence of statistics: Lin is Chris child’s, melo is LJ, fields is Starks, stat is a 4 and chan is a 5. No news here. But fun to write.

    3. tenebrous

      danvt:
      Great win in a classic trap game.

      Did Lin break his nose? His absence seemed to really effect the team in the first half. What a game from the kid, solidly outplaying the first pick in the draft.

      Also, on the CLE telecast they showed Melo all up in Lin about something toward the end of the game. Lin had just driven and been fouled, then a time out. Did he call an audible on a play designed for Melo (that’s what Austin Carr said)? Anyway, Lin talked to him for a second and then turned and walked to the bench and Anthony kept going at him with his back turned. Not a good sign in my opinion. Anybody have any perspective on this?

      No matter what melo says, if ur in the lane and have a shot u take it. Lin went to harvard so whatever melo says, Lin will still calculate in the lane. Imo.

    4. Frank

      that was a pretty amazing display of offensive basketball in the second half – against a team that is just a little below league average in defensive efficiency (granted they played without Varejao last night).

      Some of the #s have already been discussed, but here are some more:

      NBA league average shots at rim/game = 24.3
      NYK vs. CLE shots at the rim – 38 (we shot 27/38 for 71% FG)
      We had 2x as many shots at the rim as non-3pt jumpers (38 to 19)
      We had an offensive efficiency of 123.7 despite only shooting 6-20 from 3 point range.

      Melo – 7 shots at the rim, 2 shots from 10-15 feet, 3 shots from 16-23, and 3 3 pointers attempted. Perfect distribution for him.

      Amare – was obviously terrible defensively in the 1st half, but overall not too bad a game IMO. He was 0-4 on open long 2’s. If he hits 2 out of those, we’re talking 18 points on 11 shots in 28 minutes. As it was, 14 points on 11 shots isn’t THAT bad. That jumper will come around eventually.

      Overall I thought the most promising out of the game last night was our low turnovers and how good Baron looked. If he can play like he did last night, we will be trouble for a lot of teams.

      @5 – we’re not trading Jeremy Lin. It’s a waste of server space to even talk about it.

      by the way Jim – what does Novak need to do to get an A+ from you? Dude’s TS% was 94.4!

    5. Gideon Zaga

      Dantoni was amazing last night, in game adjustments and minute distribution was crisp as well. I also saw him get a little into Melo down the stretch when he was about to sub him in for the second unit. Im glad my rant has gotten to him. I believe this blog makes a difference haha. Hey Cock you see how being a Big Fan works. Now let’s ride the momentum into the tough schedule.

    6. Frank

      BTW, I just love Tyson Chandler:

      “I just let my teammates know that if we really want to be true contenders, on nights like this we’ve got to show it. Nothing’s going to come easy.”

      I know there is at least 1 poster who was not on board with the amnesty of Billups to get TC – but beyond his league leading TS%/FG% (seriously he is leading the league in FG% by 12%!!) and his awesome D, it’s this kind of leadership that will hopefully take us deep into the playoffs.

    7. bbbb00123

      David Lee certainly isn’t a good defender. But the difference between him and Amare is pretty miniscule, they’re both pretty terrible. He’s also playing offense at a much higher level than Amare, and has a better contract. Kwame Brown would come off the books after this season, leaving us with an 11million dollar PF, who’s playing much much better than our 18million dollar PF. Also, Golden State gets a real “star” even if he hasn’t been playing amazing.

    8. ruruland

      Gideon Zaga:
      Dantoni was amazing last night, in game adjustments and minute distribution was crisp as well. I also saw him get a little into Melo down the stretch when he was about to sub him in for the second unit. Im glad my rant has gotten to him. I believe this blog makes a difference haha. Hey Cock you see how being a Big Fan works. Now let’s ride the momentum into the tough schedule.

      What’s with all the lip readers all of a sudden? Is Melo trying to destroy the chemistry only for Lin and MDA to put him into his place.

      Get out of here.

    9. ruruland

      Frank:
      that was a pretty amazing display of offensive basketball in the second half – against a team that is just a little below league average in defensive efficiency (granted they played without Varejao last night).

      Some of the #s have already been discussed, but here are some more:

      NBA league average shots at rim/game = 24.3
      NYK vs. CLEshots at the rim – 38 (we shot 27/38 for 71% FG)
      We had 2x as many shots at the rim as non-3pt jumpers (38 to 19)
      We had an offensive efficiency of 123.7 despite only shooting 6-20 from 3 point range.

      Melo – 7 shots at the rim, 2 shots from 10-15 feet, 3 shots from 16-23, and 3 3 pointers attempted. Perfect distribution for him.

      Amare – was obviously terrible defensively in the 1st half, but overall not too bad a game IMO.He was 0-4 on open long 2?s. If he hits 2 out of those, we’re talking 18 points on 11 shots in 28 minutes. As it was, 14 points on 11 shots isn’t THAT bad. That jumper will come around eventually.

      Overall I thought the most promising out of the game last night was our low turnovers and how good Baron looked.If he can play like he did last night, we will be trouble for a lot of teams.

      @5 – we’re not trading Jeremy Lin.It’s a waste of server space to even talk about it.

      by the way Jim – what does Novak need to do to get an A+ from you? Dude’s TS% was 94.4!

      Yeah, unless, as someone mentioned, D12 is offered for STAT or something along those lines, this team is staying pat.

      Not sure when the fans will understand 1)How good this team is going to be 2)IT may not be around next year.

      Chips are in and this is the big hand.

    10. Frank

      btw in game 1 of ruruland vs. Owen:

      Carmelo TS: 60.4 vs. crappy CLE D
      Harden TS: 57.8 vs. excellent PHI D

      FWIW I think it’s quite likely that Carmelo ends up with a TS of 57-58 from here until the end of the season. If he has that TS on a slightly lower usage (25-27 as compared with 30+ pre-Lin), I will certainly take that. But I don’t think he will end up higher than Harden who has a huge headstart and is rarely the primary focus of opposing D’s.

    11. 8missedYet

      Lin is a gold mine for marketing purposes. He is creating a fan base like no other player since Jordan. His value to the Knicks is not just as a player. He is not going to be traded. And unlike others, I think he will remain loyal to the Knicks.

    12. ruruland

      Frank:
      that was a pretty amazing display of offensive basketball in the second half – against a team that is just a little below league average in defensive efficiency

      I liked your statistical breakdown.

      So many things I want to talk about. First, in the four game since everyone returned to the lineup against NJ, the Knicks have had the following team assist production.

      23, 23, 14,30
      Less than 15 % of games this season have had one team with 23 assists or more. It’s a very good number (even if it not pace adjusted. The assist percentage is very good). The Knicks only had six games with 23 assists or more this season, with just two coming during Lin’s 8-2 streak.

      With the return of Baron, JR, and Melo, you’re not only greater scoring balance you’re seeing more passing.

      The Knicks have done that while shooting 33% from 3.

      You’ve got to believe JR, Baron, Melo, Fields, Shump, Fields and Lin are going to shoot better than 27.6% (94/340) the rest of the way?

    13. EB

      Hopefully last night’s game will serve as a microcosm of the season. Look dead in the first half, kill it in the second half.

    14. villainx

      Lin has a statistically great game (and what looked like a solid game on the court) in the win, and he’s not the main focus of the post game story lines. Love that.

    15. ruruland

      Frank:
      btw in game 1 of ruruland vs. Owen:

      Carmelo TS: 60.4 vs. crappy CLE D
      Harden TS: 57.8 vs. excellent PHI D

      FWIW I think it’s quite likely that Carmelo ends up with a TS of 57-58 from here until the end of the season.

      My supposition wasn’t that he would finish with a higher TS%, just that he’d have a higher TS% from last night onward.

      I loved the kind of looks Melo got last night.

      1 semi-transition quick iso (Cleveland recovered defensively) Melo blocked inside

      1 quick right wing iso jump shot missed

      1 putback on oboard from Fields

      1 attack from weakside wing for layup

      1 Jumper off ball movement

      1 missed iso jumper right wing

      1 hard baseline drive from 3pt line off quick pass from Lin for layup

      1 short mid-post jumper

      Baseline drive for layup off ball movement (lin assist)

      Missed “iso” jumper right wing

      Transition 3

      Wing drive for layup

      High screen and roll dunk

      Even the isos were less congested. When he gets the ball on the wing or the baseline after the high pick and roll when the defense is trying to recover back…he never used to get those kind of looks

      Now his elite first step gives him opportunities for much easier finishes.

      If he can get the 5+weakside opportunities sprinkled in with some iso, some deep post ups, some pick and roll ball handler, and pick and roll screener and some transition baskets—-he’ll put up career efficiency in the second half without a doubt.

      But he can do any of these things in any given amount on any given night. That kind of versatility is so important against teams prepared to take away the Chandler/Lin pick and roll. You’re a damn fool if you think that alone is going to win a playoff series.

      I honestly think the Knicks, even with the MDA’s offense, can have the most varied offense in basketball if they take full advantage of…

    16. ruruland

      villainx:
      Lin has a statistically great game (and what looked like a solid game on the court) in the win, and he’s not the main focus of the post game story lines. Love that.

      Yeah, he should put up those kind of numbers with regularity with these kind of weapons.

      I think his transition vision is excellent. I think if he can continue to cut down on the amount of open shooters (both inside and out) he misses at times can he lead the league in assists.

      They were getting Amar’e the ball in the right places as well. I saw some good signs from him.

    17. Gideon Zaga

      Listen I wasn’t implying that MELO was being a cancer but go watch the game again, just about when Dantoni subbed TC and Amare in he said something to Melo and then look at Melo’s reaction. Son not everyone on here hates Melo so relax. I for one just hate Dantoni but I’m definitely rooting for him to succeed.

      ruruland: What’s with all the lip readers all of a sudden? Is Melo trying to destroy the chemistry only for Lin and MDA to put him into his place.

      Get out of here.

    18. The Infamous Cdiggy

      8missedYet:
      Lin is a gold mine for marketing purposes.He is creating a fan base like no other player since Jordan.His value to the Knicks is not just as a player. He is not going to be traded.And unlike others, I think he will remain loyal to the Knicks.

      Cosigned. Although you always want to look to build the best team possible, I think there are very tangible non-basketball reasons why the team won’t trade him (at least anytime soon).

    19. Frank

      btw we are only 3 games back of Philly for the Atlantic Division lead. That game on Sunday 3/11 may be HUGE.

      This March schedule is just brutal. As it stands now, we have 17 games to play (9 on the road), with 11 of them (7 on the road) against teams that would be in the playoffs if the season ended today. If we can come out of this stretch 10-7 that would be really impressive.

      Philly’s remaining schedule is MUCH easier. Damn.

    20. TheXman

      Years ago when Donnie Walsh had all this cap space, Dave Berri stated signing Stat to a MAX contract would be a huge mistake and keeping David Lee for much cheaper would be more palatable. He seems to be right, David Lee would work pretty well in this offense. He’s a great passer and doesn’t ball dominate. He’s also a pretty good rebounder and has a decent midrange jumpshot. Of course his defense is an issue as so is Amare’s.

      But yeah, another 8 million off the books, we can resign JR Smith.

    21. Frank

      ruruland:
      Even the isos were less congested. When he gets the ball on the wing or the baseline after the high pick and roll when the defense is trying to recover back…he never used to get those kind of looks

      The thing that was most impressive was how fast he made his move last night whatever the possession type. There was very little back down back down or jab step jab step for 5 seconds before the move.

      The spacing last night was just great. Other than maybe 1 or 2 plays, Melo was playing in open space last night as opposed to 1-on-3.

      Also – even though Amare sort of sucked last night, I thought he played very much under control offensively. He had what Synergy called 2 ISO possessions out of 11 shots (although 1 of them really looked more like a spot up – he caught it in open space, made one jab step and then threw up a brick) – everything else was in motion in transition, cuts, PNR. On his last shot, they did something which I hope we will see more of – an opening high screen for Lin with Chandler as the screen guy which was well covered, then followed by Lin going to the other side of the floor where Amare set a (crappy) screen but still got the ball back on the roll and dunk.

      Still can’t figure out why they can’t get Amare more involved as the roll man, but it looks like he made a concerted effort last night to avoid 1-on-3 ISO disasters. in fact, the whole team did -

    22. The Infamous Cdiggy

      TheXman:
      Years ago when Donnie Walsh had all this cap space, Dave Berri stated signing Stat to a MAX contract would be a huge mistake and keeping David Lee for much cheaper would be more palatable.He seems to be right, David Lee would work pretty well in this offense.He’s a great passer and doesn’t ball dominate.He’s also a pretty good rebounder and has a decent midrange jumpshot.Of course his defense is an issue as so is Amare’s.

      But yeah, another 8 million off the books, we can resign JR Smith.

      I believe this argument is more convenient than valid right now given Amar’e (unforeseen) struggles. Would you have said that last year?

      Any NBA player can be moved given the right circumstances and opportunity.

    23. Count de Pennies

      TheXman: Years ago when Donnie Walsh had all this cap space, Dave Berri stated signing Stat to a MAX contract would be a huge mistake and keeping David Lee for much cheaper would be more palatable. He seems to be right,

      All well and good… but at the time, Walsh was making decisions that were almost exclusively focused on on luring LeBron to NYC.

      Walsh knew that LeBron was not going to come to NYC for the opportunity to team up with David Lee. Walsh also knew that LeBron was upset that the Cavs had not made a bigger push to bring Stat to Cleveland.

      That the plan ultimately backfired when LeBron opted for Miami does not change the fact that the decision to sign Amar’e made sense at the time.

    24. Owen

      I think there is an argument to be made that even a small chance of getting Lebron made signing Amare worthwhile. It’s not ridiculous. But I think it was a very poor calculation on the part of the Knicks.

      What I don’t know is how all that cap space we might have saved could have been effectively put to use with the two players we really wanted, Howard and Paul, still two years away from free agency.

      Two years is a long time to ask fans to wait.

      I do think we should have signed Lee to a 5 and 35 extension back in 08 but that’s water on the bridge….

    25. ruruland

      Frank: The thing that was most impressive was how fast he made his move last night whatever the possession type.There was very little back down back down or jab step jab step for 5 seconds before the move.

      The spacing last night was just great.Other than maybe 1 or 2 plays, Melo was playing in open space last night as opposed to 1-on-3.

      Also – even though Amare sort of sucked last night, I thought he played very much under control offensively. He had what Synergy called 2 ISO possessions out of 11 shots (although 1 of them really looked more like a spot up – he caught it in open space, made one jab step and then threw up a brick) – everything else was in motion in transition, cuts, PNR.On his last shot, they did something which I hope we will see more of – an opening high screen for Lin with Chandler as the screen guy which was well covered, then followed by Lin going to the other side of the floor where Amare set a (crappy) screen but still got the ball back on the roll and dunk.

      Still can’t figure out why they can’t get Amare more involved as the roll man, but it looks like he made a concerted effort last night to avoid 1-on-3 ISO disasters.in fact, the whole team did –

      I’m with you 100 percent. Any way to message you here?

    26. Grymm

      As much as I love David Lee and players of his ilk, I would probably take Amare’s 30pt run last year over Lee’s entire Knicks career. He brought some swagger and excitement back to the Knicks. And if that costs $100M of Jimmy Dolan’s money, it’s more than worth it to me. Now, there is a cost of opportunity there, obviously, but I really can’t complain after we lucked upon the lottery ticket JLin turned out to be.

    27. MKinLA

      @31 There’s a wonderful thought implicit in what you write. Ordinarily, as a fan, you’d evaluate potential moves with an eye towards avoiding wasting the team’s money. With Dolan, while we are all properly concerned about the salary-cap implications of potential moves, we should all ignore the actual money impact, because we all loath Dolan.

    28. Will the Thrill

      Oh yeah, and no Tyson, Melo, or even JR for that matter. Nobody would come here to play with David Lee and Gallo (even though I agree Lee>Amare right now).

      TheXman:
      Years ago when Donnie Walsh had all this cap space, Dave Berri stated signing Stat to a MAX contract would be a huge mistake and keeping David Lee for much cheaper would be more palatable.He seems to be right, David Lee would work pretty well in this offense.He’s a great passer and doesn’t ball dominate.He’s also a pretty good rebounder and has a decent midrange jumpshot.Of course his defense is an issue as so is Amare’s.

      But yeah, another 8 million off the books, we can resign JR Smith.

    29. Brian Cronin

      Oh yeah, and no Tyson, Melo, or even JR for that matter. Nobody would come here to play with David Lee and Gallo (even though I agree Lee>Amare right now).

      Tyson Chandler would never come to play with David Lee. Except, you know, this offseason when he agreed to come play with David Lee before the Knicks outbid the Warriors for his services.

    30. Frank

      Brian Cronin: Tyson Chandler would never come to play with David Lee. Except, you know, this offseason when he agreed to come play with David Lee before the Knicks outbid the Warriors for his services.

      Can you possibly imagine the opposite happening — Tyson saying no thanks to Amare and Melo because I want to go play with David Lee?

      Didn’t think so.

      And we still don’t know the actual $ – I sort of doubt that an extra 1-2M was really the turning point. TC saw an opportunity and jumped at it. If he had known about the NYK possibility he probably would never have even talked to GSW.

      I’m not sure why people have such a hard time believing that players want to play with Melo. It really doesn’t matter what we think of players and how efficient or whatever they are, or whether we think that makes for good team construction. The only thing that matters is the perception of the player making the choice. And the fact is – all these players have come to NYC since Amare came (Melo, TC, Baron, JR Smith, etc.). Maybe it’s because of NYC, maybe because it’s Melo+Amare, who knows – they came for the whole package. And teams like GSW, Denver, etc. just don’t have that package.

      If you listen to the players talk, it’s clear the basketball royalty (in the eyes of the PLAYERS, not us) of that “generation” consists of LBJ, Wade, Melo, and CP3. There are some guys that are better or at least on the same level (DH12 etc.) but the CAA brat-pack are like the popular kids in school. People want to be around them. There are probably multiple such cliques ie. the old guys (Kobe, Pierce etc.), the awesome but foreign guys like Dirk/Ginobili/Parker, and the new guard (Rose, Durant, Westbrook, etc.) But these are the power players in the NBA. Guys like David Lee are not in that group, deservedly or not.

    31. Brian Cronin

      Can you possibly imagine the opposite happening — Tyson saying no thanks to Amare and Melo because I want to go play with David Lee?

      Didn’t think so.

      And we still don’t know the actual $ – I sort of doubt that an extra 1-2M was really the turning point. TC saw an opportunity and jumped at it. If he had known about the NYK possibility he probably would never have even talked to GSW.

      If the money is the same, sure, he’d rather go to the Knicks (especially since the Knicks are a better team who play in an easier conference). But I was responding solely to “Tyson Chandler would not come to play with David Lee,” which we know to be plainly false, since he was all ready to sign with the Warriors before the Knicks got involved.

      NBA players are still concerned about money before anything else. Now if the money is close, then sure, then other considerations come into play. But if the Knicks only had $11 million to offer Chandler and the Warriors had $14, he would be a Warrior today. If the Heat could only play Lebron and Bosh $12 million a year, they would not be on the team.

      Even the guys who have taken big pay cuts in their career have only done so after making a ton of money over a decade-long career. Karl Malone and Gary Payton are two notable examples of this. Baron Davis, for instance, is currently getting paid, what, $12 million from the Cavs this year? So yeah, he can play for $1 million from the Knicks. And he has been paid a ton of money in his decade-long career, as well.

      Even JR Smith, if you take a long look at his salary options, would only be looking at the MLE from other teams longterm if he turns down the Knicks this offseason (he’s worth more than that, but that’s the messed up aspect of the current NBA system – he could probably beat the MLE on a short-term deal, but not long-term). So if he takes the Knicks’ $2.5 million option, they will be able to offer him the MLE the following season, and if it is, say, a four-year deal, then he’ll be in a situation where staying in New York gives him five years/$22.5 million versus a possible five years/$25 million elsewhere. That’s a $500,000 a year difference. That’s reasonable. Now if Smith were a player who’d be getting $6-8 million a year for multiple years, then yeah, no way would he take the $2.5 million option.

    32. jon abbey

      Baron turned down the same money from Miami and the Lakers, no way he does that if we have a Lee/Gallinari nucleus.

    33. Brian Cronin

      If Tyson Chandler was also on the team, he would.

      But yeah, I’ll certainly allow that Baron Davis came to the Knicks rather than making the same money elsewhere because of Tyson Chandler. Just like JR Smith came to the Knicks rather than making less money elsewhere because of Melo. Definitely agreed. You’ll get no argument from me there. If the money is close, of course personal relationships matter.

      I’m only disputing “Tyson Chandler would not come to the Knicks if David Lee was here.”

    34. jon abbey

      Brian Cronin:
      If the money is close, of course personal relationships matter.

      and this is what you and I were both arguing from the beginning about the Melo deal: sideways move, depending on who else he manages to recruit to join him. I still have hope Chris Paul will show up here after next season, cap situation be damned.

    35. Frank

      jon abbey: and this is what you and I were both arguing from the beginning about the Melo deal: sideways move, depending on who else he manages to recruit to join him. I still have hope Chris Paul will show up here after next season, cap situation be damned.

      Hate to tell you but the Knicks PG for the next 4-5 years at least is already wearing #17 on this team. Barring injury and a sudden loss of skill, J-Lin’s combination of ability and marketability basically ensures that he’ll be the NYK PG for a long time.

    36. Owen

      I would say there is about a 1% chance of Paul leaving the Clippers after listening to his comments on the BS report. Apparently he loves living in LA. It’s a pretty nice situation for him I think. He’ll be the king of LA before too long….

    37. d-mar

      Are we really bringing back the Amare vs. David Lee argument again? I understand there’s something wrong with STAT right now and Lee is putting up better numbers, but in David Lee’s wildest fantasy he could never go up against Kevin Garnett in a playoff game and destroy him like Amare did last year in Game 1. That’s what Amare is capable of, I know he doesn’t look like that guy today, but it was only 10 months ago. I still wouldn’t trade Amare straight up for Lee, if it was even possible.

    38. jon abbey

      Frank: Hate to tell you but the Knicks PG for the next 4-5 years at least is already wearing #17 on this team.Barring injury and a sudden loss of skill, J-Lin’s combination of ability and marketability basically ensures that he’ll be the NYK PG for a long time.

      I think it’s maybe 50/50 he’ll still be starting over Baron by the playoffs this year, but we’ll see.

    39. Juany8

      If Baron Davis raises his game in the playoffs, which he has historically, then there’s an excellent chance Baron will at least be finishing games, which would make Lin the odd man man. I don’t think anyone’s even mentioned how much better Baron is at defense than Lin, he does a good job of staying with his man even through screens, and his stockier build lets him guard bigger players. We might even end up playing Lin and Davis, quite a few teams have played 2 point guard lineups depending on the matchup (against Philly or Orlando, we wouldn’t lose much with Baron guarding Jodie Meeks or Jason Richardson).

    40. jaylamerique

      jon abbey: I think it’s maybe 50/50 he’ll still be starting over Baron by the playoffs this year, but we’ll see.

      is that necessarily a good thing? Lin is a pretty good player.

    41. JK47

      You guys are nuts. Jeremy Lin is the PG of this team. He is playing at a level that Baron Davis and his career .105 WS/48 can only dream of. And don’t tell me about a few playoff series from 6 years ago. That was then, this is now. Lin has a TS% around .570 and a .170 WS/48. The only way he loses his starting job is through injury.

    42. Owen

      Jon – Man you LOVE Baron Davis. You have a full on Owen@DavidLee level man crush on the fella.

      Crazier things have happened but I will be a touch surprised if Lin doesn’t start every game this year…

    43. jon abbey

      JK47:
      You guys are nuts. Jeremy Lin is the PG of this team. He is playing at a level that Baron Davis and his career .105 WS/48 can only dream of. And don’t tell me about a few playoff series from 6 years ago. That was then, this is now. Lin has a TS% around .570 and a .170 WS/48. The only way he loses his starting job is through injury.

      you sound much more certain about this than D’Antoni has been when asked.

    44. jon abbey

      Owen:
      Jon – Man you LOVE Baron Davis. You have a full on Owen@DavidLee level man crush on the fella.

      Crazier things have happened but I will be a touch surprised if Lin doesn’t start every game this year…

      actually Shumpert is my Lee-type crush, but I have been a long time fan of both JR Smith and Baron.

      but this one really isn’t wishful thinking, D’Antoni has alluded to the possibility himself. I think Lin would be awesome coming off the bench, much harder for the other team to game plan for that way.

    45. JK47

      Well, D’Antoni has to be a bit of a politician about the whole thing. Baron’s a vet and he came here thinking he was gonna be the starter, and egos need to be massaged. Of course he’s not going to come out and say that Baron is never going to start.

    46. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      jon abbey: you sound much more certain about this than D’Antoni has been when asked.

      If you’re trying to mount your argument on the idea that coaches are never wrong about personnel choices, remember that Lin actually playing was a fluke, Faried got benched after 13 and 10 on perfect shooting in the first half, Jerome James got a $30M contract, etc.

      If you really think that Mike D’antoni is some kind of evaluative genius because he’s the head coach of an NBA team, you are overlooking years of awful contracts, draft picks, and playing time allocation by people who were supposedly “experts in their field.”

    47. Brian Cronin

      But that’s not what Jon is doing. He’s just saying that D’Antoni has seemingly hedged his bets on whether Lin or Davis will be the starter at the end of the season. I tend to lean more towards JL47’s position that D’Antoni is just not wishing to piss off Davis (as Davis obviously came here to start), but it is worth noting that D’Antoni has not made any sort of “Lin is definitively the starter going forward” statements. It doesn’t have to do with D’Antoni’s evaluative genius, it is just about what D’Antoni seems like he’ll do. After all, Jon clearly disagrees with D’Antoni over how many minutes Fields should be playing, so trust me, Jon is not supporting any sort of “D’Antoni is the expert, he knows what he is doing” position.

    48. jon abbey

      no, that has absolutely nothing to do with my point. we are talking about whether or not Davis will start, not whether he should or not. that will be D’Antoni’s decision, therefore anything he says on the topic is relevant.

    49. Frank O.

      Frank:
      that was a pretty amazing display of offensive basketball in the second half – against a team that is just a little below league average in defensive efficiency (granted they played without Varejao last night).

      Some of the #s have already been discussed, but here are some more:

      NBA league average shots at rim/game = 24.3
      NYK vs. CLEshots at the rim – 38 (we shot 27/38 for 71% FG)
      We had 2x as many shots at the rim as non-3pt jumpers (38 to 19)
      We had an offensive efficiency of 123.7 despite only shooting 6-20 from 3 point range.

      Melo – 7 shots at the rim, 2 shots from 10-15 feet, 3 shots from 16-23, and 3 3 pointers attempted. Perfect distribution for him.

      Amare – was obviously terrible defensively in the 1st half, but overall not too bad a game IMO.He was 0-4 on open long 2?s. If he hits 2 out of those, we’re talking 18 points on 11 shots in 28 minutes. As it was, 14 points on 11 shots isn’t THAT bad. That jumper will come around eventually.

      Overall I thought the most promising out of the game last night was our low turnovers and how good Baron looked.If he can play like he did last night, we will be trouble for a lot of teams.

      @5 – we’re not trading Jeremy Lin.It’s a waste of server space to even talk about it.

      by the way Jim – what does Novak need to do to get an A+ from you? Dude’s TS% was 94.4!

      Haven’t you heard? TS is a terrible measure of efficiency and, you know, efficient shooters are as good as bad shooters who look impressive driving.

    50. jon abbey

      no one said that, you should maybe take notes on the deeper level of analysis that Frank brings instead of mocking.

    51. Gamecockerbocker

      Brian Cronin: Tyson Chandler would never come to play with David Lee. Except, you know, this offseason when he agreed to come play with David Lee before the Knicks outbid the Warriors for his services.

      I think Curry and Ellis might have had a little bit to do with Tyson almost signing with the Warriors, too.

    52. Brian Cronin

      I think Curry and Ellis might have had a little bit to do with Tyson almost signing with the Warriors, too.

      George Washington had the biggest impact (all 13,500,000 of him).

    53. Gamecockerbocker

      Also, while I get that the Lin/Davis starting debate isn’t about who “should” start, I don’t know how well hearing Davis’s name instead of Lin’s during pregame introductions would go over in MSG. If Lin keeps putting up these 20 point 10 assist games, It’s not crazy to think the Garden crowd would voice its opinion quite loudly during the early part of whatever game Davis gets that start. Just my two cents for the night.

    54. Juany8

      Anyone who thinks they can measure an offensive player’s efficiency or capabilities by simply counting the number of shots he makes and dividing by how many shot he takes needs to both learn how basketball and statistics work. Anyone can see that Novak was hyper efficiency with the 3 point shots he took last night. Everyone can also see that his defender had to leave him and someone had to pass to him to make those shots. Thus Novak does not deserve full credit for the shot he made. Regardless of how efficiently he makes them, Novak contributes less value to his own shots than most players do, especially point guards and primary offensive options like Kobe and Melo.

      Just because you assume that all of the extra stuff that goes on in a possession has no effect on the final shot doesn’t mean I, Jon, or anyone else has to. And if you’re going to decide value entirely, or even mostly, by statistical analysis, make sure you find statistics that actually measure what you want to find. Don’t assume that you can simply pick numbers from what’s currently out there and automatically have smart, objective analysis. Saying one player is better at offense because his TS% is higher than another is no better than saying someone is better because he scores more points. Both need physical context attached to have any real meaning.

    55. Will the Thrill

      Since Baron has never been as good as Lin has been in his recent run, I don’t see why he would start. But I guess it really doesn’t matter who starts, as long as Lin is getting most of the minutes. But this is all assuming that Lin doesn’t fall of some Landry-like cliff toward the end of the season. If Lin is playing poorly and Baron is playing well, sure, go ahead and start him. But right now we have to go with the better, younger (basically a rookie) guy.

    56. limpidgimp

      Baron Davis turns out one good game after his injury and jon abbey is already talking about starting him over Lin who has performed well over 10+ games, and is the long term talent that should be developed. Makes no sense to me. And all the wayward discussions about trading Lin or having someone else start is a complete waste of words. It’s not going to happen so why even bother.

    57. Z

      I have to say I don’t understand jon’s passionate distaste for Landry Fields. I love Fields, both off the court, and for 80% of the time he’s on the court too. That said, jon may have a point (from the previous thread) that he’s the 11th best player on the team. It’s hard to argue that Shump Shump and his glove-like defense has less value than Field’s and his low usage O. To think, though, that Fields– an above average player– is our 3rd worst player… the mind reels at how good our roster has become.

      The awesome thing is that though Fields became my favorite Knick last year, I don’t even mind seeing Shump take his role, because Shump is also immensely likable. And as far as the Lin v Davis debate goes, Baron is also one of the most likable guys in the league, so I certainly don’t mind seeing him play so well that he displaces the god-of-the-hour, if that’s the way it turns out.

      It seems like just yesterday that I had to take roofies just to get through a night with Marbury, Randolph, et al… To think that this is suddenly the most rootable team that the Knicks have put out there in my lifetime just blows my mind.

      In Glen we trust (?!)

    58. MSA

      Before we throw Lin back in the bench for the amazing Baron Davis let’s just remember some of his numbers so far.

      PER: 5.2
      WS48: -.126
      WP48: -.151
      eFG: .219
      TOV%: 29.6%

      Except for his great AST% (52%) there is no way Davis should be taking minutes of Lin.

      An argument can be made that the sample is small and his coming from a back problem but i’m not convinced that’s enough.

    59. jon abbey

      Will the Thrill:
      Since Baron has never been as good as Lin has been in his recent run

      please stop looking at regular season WS/48 numbers and go learn about the way he took down the top seed Mavericks in the playoffs almost singlehandedly. and yes, that was a while back, but you said “never”.

      let me be more clear: I like Lin, I think he’s played great and I think he will likely be a strong contributor in years to come. that being said, you will never see a team do to a full-strength Baron Davis (give him another few weeks) what Miami did to Lin.

    60. jon abbey

      Z:
      I have to say I don’t understand jon’s passionate distaste for Landry Fields. I love Fields, both off the court, and for 80% of the time he’s on the court too. That said, jon may have a point (from the previous thread) that he’s the 11th best player on the team.

      it’s nothing personal, I’m sure he’s a very nice person, but honestly I could care less about that. your last sentence is my only point, really.

      oh, also I can’t get the way that Ray Allen destroyed him in the playoffs last year out of my head, I really don’t think that was a fluke but closer to a window into what we’d get from him as a playoff starter. he is the obvious weak link on the team right now (to me), and I think that will become increasingly clear with each game that we have a full complement of players.

    61. jon abbey

      MSA:
      Before we throw Lin back in the bench for the amazing Baron Davis let’s just remember some of his numbers so far.

      PER: 5.2
      WS48: -.126
      WP48: -.151
      eFG: .219
      TOV%: 29.6%

      Except for his great AST% (52%) there is no way Davis should be taking minutes of Lin.

      An argument can be made that the sample is small and his coming from a back problem but i’m not convinced that’s enough.

      he’s obviously not there yet, Baron himself said that 15 minutes against CLE was enough for now. I am talking about two months from now, and simply raising the possibility, as D’Antoni himself has done also.

      oh, and those numbers are totally worthless in this case, the guy is using games as scrimmages to try to get back into game shape, since a subpar Baron is still by far the best NY option at backup PG. 8 assists/0 turnovers in 15 minutes in his last game, use your eyes once in a while, people.

    62. MSA

      jon abbey: he’s obviously not there yet, Baron himself said that 15 minutes against CLE was enough for now. I am talking about two months from now, and simply raising the possibility, as D’Antoni himself has done also.

      oh, and those numbers are totally worthless in this case, the guy is using games as scrimmages to try to get back into game shape, since a subpar Baron is still by far the best NY option at backup PG. 8 assists/0 turnovers in 15 minutes in his last game, use your eyes once in a while, people.

      I’m pretty sure even Douglas had such numbers once in his career.

      I’m not saying that he’s not a good player. I like him.

      The point is let him do his scrimmages of the bench. IF somehow he return to his old form (which is nothing out of this world by the way), and is a big IF, he still have to play better than Lin.

      Numbers are not worthless in this situations. They say that a player so far hasn’t played well. The same way a 9/0 assist/turnover in a single game doesn’t mean that he’s the new (old) Magic Johnson. Just show that he had a pretty good game.

      If you wanna use the “prospect” argument that Davis once upon the time crushed the Mavs, I prefer the prospect of basically a rookie playing at an all star level. The future seems brighter that way.

    63. Bruno Almeida

      jon abbey: please stop looking at regular season WS/48 numbers and go learn about the way he took down the top seed Mavericks in the playoffs almost singlehandedly. and yes, that was a while back, but you said “never”.

      let me be more clear: I like Lin, I think he’s played great and I think he will likely be a strong contributor in years to come. that being said, you will never see a team do to a full-strength Baron Davis (give him another few weeks) what Miami did to Lin.

      sorry, but that was 2007… we’re in 2012.
      what he did was amazing and it does show that when he’s focused, he steps up big time.

      but if you truly believe this version of Baron Davis, 5 years older and with many injury problems, is the same player as that Baron Davis… then we should trade for Andris Biedrins, because Biedrins looked like a star in the making during that playoff run…

      Jeremy Lin is our PG, there’s no reason at all to dump a 23-year old PG who has played like a superstar so far to hope Baron, soon to be 33, recreates what he did once for one single playoff series.

    64. Juany8

      I think people are getting a little too caught up with Lin. I’m not saying his big win streak with Carmelo and Stoudemire out is a fluke, I like Lin and think he’ll grow into a pretty good point guard. That being said, what happened against Miami wasn’t a fluke either, he constantly missed open shooters, coudn’t get anything in the pick and roll, and had trouble dribbling in open space against Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole (people on this board were talking about Miami having to guard him with Lebron lol. Don’t worry, the actual league respects Carmelo and JR even if some people don’t)

      I think Baron is already a better passer and defender than Lin, although I don’t think he’ll be close to as good at scoring this year. So of course any stat that primarily looks at scoring efficiency is going to immensely favor Lin, but that stat is also going to essentially gloss over the games he’ll have against Miami and Chicago, which probably won’t be much better than his recent game against Miami. Either way, Baron still has some time to get healthy and it’s strange that people are so defensive about Lin’s starting position, if he continues to play out of his mind he’ll keep getting minutes, if not we have another possible option waiting to take them.

    65. jon abbey

      Bruno Almeida: sorry, but that was 2007… we’re in 2012.
      what he did was amazing and it does show that when he’s focused, he steps up big time.

      but if you truly believe this version of Baron Davis, 5 years older and with many injury problems, is the same player as that Baron Davis… then we should trade for Andris Biedrins, because Biedrins looked like a star in the making during that playoff run…

      so little reading comprehension here, I was solely responding to the use of the word “NEVER”.

    66. Frank

      I actually have high hopes for Baron – the few games I saw him play last year he was really quite good even while being out of shape. I’m not sure how much his game will change due to the back issue but he sure looked quick and in-shape on wednesday.

      That being said – he’s much better off limiting his minutes and getting back into shape.

      Re: Lin and the Miami game – everyone struggles against Miami, especially when Miami makes it their primary focus to stop that one guy. Remember, we went into that game with ZERO practices for the team that was on the floor that night for us, whereas Miami has been essentially the same team for 18 months. Miami is an awesome defense but I guarantee you the game in April will be different and that Lin will not look as deer-in-the-headlights as he did last week.

      It is a delicate balancing act for MDA though. If you make Baron really happy, he just might come back again for the vet’s minimum considering CLE is still paying him $13M+ in 12-13. Is he at that point in his career where he’s already made $117M (per B-R) and he wants a chance to win in NYC?

      Re: Lin – the contract negotiations will be very interesting. Barring some sudden change, he clearly has played himself into whatever maximum he is allowed under the Arenas rule– BUT– his actual basketball salary will likely be a smallish minority of his overall income. If he chooses to do so, he can probably be a $10-15M/year endorsement guy especially internationally. Can the FO convince him to take the biannual exception next year so the team then gets early bird rights on him after 12-13? Given his probable endorsement $, the difference between the full MLE and the biannual would probably not be noticeable to him. That would let us resign JR to the MLE, or resign Novak + JJ by splitting the MLE, etc. That’s not even mentioning what might be a huge PR boost for Lin if he takes less $ so that the team can stay together.

    67. Z

      jon abbey: it’s nothing personal, I’m sure he’s a very nice person, but honestly I could care less about that. your last sentence is my only point, really.

      oh, also I can’t get the way that Ray Allen destroyed him in the playoffs last year out of my head, I really don’t think that was a fluke but closer to a window into what we’d get from him as a playoff starter. he is the obvious weak link on the team right now (to me), and I think that will become increasingly clear with each game that we have a full complement of players.

      You are easily swayed by one playoff performance. (Fields, Baron Davis). Were you on Isiah’s advisory committee when he signed Jerome James?

      Fields was a rookie, playing in his first playoff series, defending an NBA shooting legend playing in his gazillionth playoff game. To consider that a career defining performance isn’t really fair.

      But the real point I was making (rc 101) is that I was agreeing with you re: Shump v Fields.

    68. jon abbey

      heh, I did actually like the Jerome James signing at the time, I will freely admit.

      I do believe that the playoffs are played at a decidedly higher intensity level and overall focus, and we get a better read on the true level of players there, small sample size or not. I am certainly not writing off Fields based solely on that, just talking about how he fits in on this team now based on all I’ve seen of him to date, but even more, what I think the rest of the team is capable of.

      and Shumpert is a rookie now, but IMO no way he’d get abused like that on both ends for four straight games by Allen or any other SG in the league (Kobe, Wade, Ginobili, etc.).

    69. Frank O.

      jon abbey:
      no one said that, you should maybe take notes on the deeper level of analysis that Frank brings instead of mocking.

      a little sarcasm left over from the last string. thanks for telling me what I should do, jon.

    70. Frank O.

      Juany8:
      Anyone who thinks they can measure an offensive player’s efficiency or capabilities by simply counting the number of shots he makes and dividing by how many shot he takes needs to both learn how basketball and statistics work. Anyone can see that Novak was hyper efficiency with the 3 point shots he took last night. Everyone can also see that his defender had to leave him and someone had to pass to him to make those shots. Thus Novak does not deserve full credit for the shot he made. Regardless of how efficiently he makes them, Novak contributes less value to his own shots than most players do, especially point guards and primary offensive options like Kobe and Melo.

      Here’s my issue with this argument. Perhaps this would bear some weight if we are comparing across teams because team dynamics are different. But both Shump and Fields play for the same team, so it is reasonable to assume that each performs in relatively similar dynamics.
      And in those dynamics, Fields is the more efficient scorer. Period.
      That is all I’m saying.
      Most anyone can pick at most any measure of efficiency as it relates to basketball. It is an imprecise tool, but a tool nonetheless.
      A few years ago, folks on this blog made the case that David Lee was a very efficient scorer and he compared favorably, especially for the price, to some of the best power forwards in the game.
      Some tried to tear him down because of the D’antoni pace and style of play which tends to inflate offensive stats. Nonetheless, it turns out that as a predictive tool for how a guy might perform in the future, efficiency ratings like TS and eFG were pretty effective in predicting what Lee would become. There are examples where it wasn’t so great, like Balkman, although folks like Jon and others would argue he never got a shot.

    71. Frank O.

      jon abbey:
      heh, I did actually like the Jerome James signing at the time, I will freely admit.

      I do believe that the playoffs are played at a decidedly higher intensity level and overall focus, and we get a better read on the true level of players there, small sample size or not. I am certainly not writing off Fields based solely on that, just talking about how he fits in on this team now based on all I’ve seen of him to date, but even more, what I think the rest of the team is capable of.

      and Shumpert is a rookie now, but IMO no way he’d get abused like that on both ends for four straight games by Allen or any other SG in the league (Kobe, Wade, Ginobili, etc.).

      Ray Allen has made better players than Fields look stupid in the playoffs. Just saying…

    72. Frank O.

      Frank O.: a little sarcasm left over from the last string. thanks for telling me what I should do, jon.

      The sarcasm wasn’t directed at Frank. Just so we are clear. He makes some of the smarter comments on this blog. Just so we’re clear.

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