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Friday, October 31, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jun 28 2012)

  • [New York Post] Nash: I would talk to Knicks (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 03:47:37 -0500)
    Steve Nash, who has a home in the West Village, played soccer Wednesday night in Chinatown and on Sunday could find himself in midtown at the Garden meeting with Knicks officials.
    Nash said with the proximity of the Garden to his summer home, he would agree to a Knicks’ meeting…

  • [New York Post] Knicks eyeing backcourt player in the second round (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 03:47:37 -0500)
    Without a first-round pick, the Knicks realize the player they select past 11 p.m.Thursday night late in the second round is hardly a shoo-in for a rotation. But this will be their first crack at adding to a depleted backcourt as general manager Glen Grunwald runs his first…

  • [New York Times] Rebranded and Relocated, the Nets Are Desperate to Re-Sign Williams (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 05:30:06 GMT)
    Deron Williams can become a free agent on Sunday and the Nets, who don’t have a first-round pick in Thursday’s N.B.A. draft, are desperately trying to re-sign their star guard.

  • [New York Times] Andre Drummond Is Big, Athletic and Something of a Draft-Day Game (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 06:50:06 GMT)
    Andre Drummond is the youngest of the projected lottery picks who will attend the N.B.A. draft Thursday and in many ways is the most unproven.

  • [New York Times] Bird Cites Health for Departure From Pacers (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 00:16:42 GMT)
    Larry Bird, perhaps the most respected and beloved basketball figure in a state obsessed with the sport, will leave his job as the Indiana Pacers’ president of basketball operations at the end of August.

  • [New York Times] After Top Pick Shoo-In Davis, Draft Appears Wide Open (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 00:47:51 GMT)
    Anthony Davis of the University of Kentucky appears sure to be taken by the New Orleans Hornets as first choice in Thursday’s NBA Draft, but the rest is a guessing game as to where the league’s brightest talents land.

  • [New York Times] Drexler Denies He Gave Quotes About Magic in Book (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 00:09:22 GMT)
    Clyde Drexler denied Wednesday making negative statements attributed to him about Magic Johnson in an upcoming book about the Dream Team.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Nash to the Knicks? Not So Fast (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 09:33:33 GMT)
    Knicks fans serenaded Steve Nash about joining their team as a free agent during his annual charity soccer match in Manhattan. Nash, for his part, said he’s keeping his options open.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Carmelo Anthony Loses Weight (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 04:37:14 GMT)
    A motivated, sleeker Carmelo Anthony said Tuesday that he had lost 12 pounds since the end of the Knicks’ season.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Stoudemire Fined for Using Slur on Twitter (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 04:27:45 GMT)
    Amar’e Stoudemire was fined $50,000 by the N.B.A. on Tuesday for using a homophobic slur to respond to a fan’s taunt on Twitter.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks know there aren’t many Manus in 2nd round (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 03:32:41 GMT)
    Manu Ginobili is the gold standard of second-round picks, drafted 57th by San Antonio a few days after the Spurs defeated the Knicks in the 1999 NBA Finals.

  • [New York Daily News] SEE IT: Melo spooks Tussauds patrons by posing as wax figure (Thu, 28 Jun 2012 01:57:14 GMT)
    On Tuesday, Carmelo Anthony was enshrined at the famous New York spot with a wax likeness that bears an uncanny resemblance – from its tattoos, headband and sleeves to its perpetual holding of the basketball and defensive effort.

  • 73 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jun 28 2012)

    1. ruruland

      Brian/Mike: Feel free to delete posts from preceeding thread:

      Finally finished up the post I said I’d make yesterday.

      We talked a lot this year about how assisted baskets have a strong correlation with efficiency. This has been true throughout Carmelo’s Anthony’s career. And without going specifically back into that discussion, check out Melo’s numbers on the year with and without Lin (using Synergy’s website, I simply tallied the assisted and non-assisted attempts during the Lin stretch and used basic algebra to find his numbers without him) :

      With Lin: 50.3% assisted scoring attempts, 49.7% unassisted attempts

      Without Lin: 68% unassisted, 32% assisted
      *excludes offensive rebounds and “other plays

      What is an assisted attempt? P&R roll man, spot up, off screen, hand off, cut and most transition plays.

      What is an unassisted attempt? Isolation, post-up, screen and roll ballhandler, and some transition plays.

      Despite all the injury issues, Melo had a TS% on assisted attempts of 59.5% (using 80% on fta) . As you’ll see soon, that is lower than his shooting percentage on those kinds of plays from the previous two years. The primary reason it dropped? his spot-up 3pt percentage dropped (as well as finishing issues)….

      However, what I noticed during this period was the accuracy and timing with which Lin found Melo. The potential I see with this combination is greater than the Melo/Miller combination in Denver from 2003 to 2006.

      For example…..

      Melo’s never played with a good pick and roll point guard. Miller, Billups and Iverson lacked/lack the instincts, timing and accuracy passing to make it an effective play as a passer (though all three are or were prodigous scorers).

      Yes, bith Ama’re and Chandler are elite pick and roll players, but here is why I think the 1/3 pnr is going to be one of the primary (new) weapons unveiled next season.

      Despite playing less than a third of his games on the year with Lin, half of Melo’s pick and…

    2. ruruland

      roll (roller) plays came with Lin.

      How did Melo do in this play with Lin?

      He made 8/11 shots, had no turnovers and 1 fta. Lin is such a dangerous pnr scorer, and he puts the ball right on to the moving target, this is going to be one of the Knicks close-to-impossible to defend plays next season (right up there with Lin or Melo as ballhandler with Chandler/Amar’e as roller).

      I have strong reasons to believe that many of Melo’s isolation and post-up plays are going to come off of the Lin/Melo pnr when teams start trapping Lin and sending backside help on Melo. It will be a secondary, later in the shot clock kind of shot with Lin in the game.

      This allows the Knicks to maintain the flow of the offense (very important for Amar’e) and adds quite a bit of variance to the isolation post-up. In other words, many of Melo’s isolations and post-ups will come after teams overload Lin on pick and rolls. All of this will open up a lot of weakside fun for shooters and mobile big men.

      What about cuts?

      Over the last three years, Melo has been one of the most efficient “cutters” in the NBA.Unfortunately, he hasn’t played with the kind of penetrating/ skilled passing point guard that increases the volume of this play type.

      Last year, 23 of Melo’s 54 field goal “cut” attempts came off Lin passes….

      How efficienct was this play type between Lin and Melo?

      Melo made 15/23 of his “cut” shots with two turnovers and 5 fta, which is nearly 1.5 points per possession — one of the best numbers in the NBA. He was around 1.1 ppp on passes from other players.

      Once again, these attempts were made easier by Lin’s passing skill. All great scorers seeking to be efficient– including Durant, Kobe, Lebron and Wade– need to have some easier shots created for them, or created from their off-ball movement. Kobe doesn’t get them. Lebron,Wade and Durant do.

      It gets even better.

      What about transition? First, Melo is not fast or athletic enough to make a lot of coast…

    3. ruruland

      However, contrary to what people like Owen say, not all wings, bigs or combo guards are great runners alongside point guards. While Melo isn’t as fast or as athletic as the one-man fastbreak players in the NBA, he’s extremely dangerous alongside a point guard who can run.

      For his size, Melo is faster than average running without a ball in his hands, and just as he uses his strength in the half-court, Melo is incredibly difficult to stop with a full head of steam going towards the basket.

      Melo was 23rd in transition efficiency in 2011, and 71st in 2010.

      But once again, he’s never played with a traditional running point guard who pushes the tempo, is a significant threat to score on his own, but uses fundemantals, intilligence and timing to discern when to set up his running mate, and how to deke the defender if necessary. Iverson was a scoring fastbreak player. Miller and Billups were not “runners.”

      Most importantly, Lin’s prescence and initiative pushing the tempo increases the transition opportunities for all — even if he’s not the one who gets credited for the assist.

      This is the “Westbrook effect” that THCJ had such a hard time understanding.

      Because Westbrook is so fast, athletic and aggressive and transition, and such a proficient finisher, teams dedicate to funneling their transition defense towards the basket.

      In other words, teams lose their transition defense floor balance because of Westbrook’s prescence.

      Why does this help his teammates?

      Have you ever noticed how many spot-up 3?s Durant and Harden get trailing the break?

      Many of those are indirectly created by Westbrook’s prescence. When a defender comes out from the painted area to try to contest one of those guys, it leads to even higher efficiency semi-transition offense–the Thunder’s forte.

      So, how did Melo do in transition with Lin in the game?

      28/37 on his shot attempts with 5 threes and 4 four turnovers….

      Ridiculously efficient.

    4. ruruland

      In sum, Melo had a TS% of 78.5 on those three play types with Lin.

      What brought his TS% down to 59% on assisted basket attempts was the fact that he had a TS% of under 30% on spot-ups, hand-offs and screens.

      It’s quite the anomaly. Melo’s TS% on those three play types the previous two years:48.4% and 55.5%
      ——————————————————————
      Why do I think Melo will break his career high in efficiency next season?

      Alongside Lin, his assisted basket attempts will rise, his unassisted basket attempts will fall.

      When I combined Melo’s data from 2010 and 2011, I found that 65.4% of his shots/fta were of the unassisted variety — obviously that’s extremely high, especially compared to other great scorers.

      That’s 15 percent higher than it was with Lin last year.

      On unassisted basket attempts in 2010 and 2011, Melo’s TS% was just 50.5%, still one of the better numbers in the NBA. (and you know my position on iso/post-ups and how they benefit teammates)

      On assisted basket attempts it was 61.9%

      The problem was the distribution, as I said all along.

      If we swing his assisted basket ratio to what is was with Lin, for the sake of simplicity make it a 50/50 split, Melo’s true shooting percentage rises to 56.4.

      When we add in high efficiency offensive rebounds, Melo’s projected TS% based on 2010 and 2011 data is around .570

      But I think it will go above .570 for the following reasons:

      1)Far more of his assisted baskets will be on cuts because of Lin’s penetration. Melo’s 3 year cut efficiency is well above his total assisted make efficiency

      2) Lin’s passing ability in transition and pick and roll will create a higher volume of easy shots than Melo’s ever had before.

      3) A decrease in iso/post-up usage will increase Melo’s efficiency on those plays.

      4) A decrease in overall offensive intitiation responsibility will increase Melo’s energy on offense.

    5. ruruland

      Notice I haven’t mentioned the fact that Melo is likely to come into the season in the 230-235 range. He came into the league around 230, but he’s added a lot of muscle mass since. His body fat % is likely to be lower than ever before. For example, an extremely fit Melo came into 2009 around 240.

      He’s taking it to another level this offseason. And I think that focus will carry over into the regular season at a level he hasn’t experienced before.

      Let’s remember, when Melo came into a regular season with this kind of momentum in 2009, coming off a WCF appearance and an incredible off-season, he was averaging over 30 points per game on 58%TS the first half of the year.

      The problem was he carried a huge burden in the post/iso game (before Lawson was getting playing time) game which I think wore him down in the second half.

      He injured his wrist in late December and his numbers dropped preciptously.

      The key for Melo staying healthy is to reduce the frequency of plays where he grapples for position.

      The vast majority of Melo’s injuries wrist and elbow injuries, IMO, have been caused by the constant hand fighting.

      After coming off a monster second half in 2005 and leading Team USA in scoring in the summer of 2006, going from afterthought/dissapointment in 2004 to rising star, Melo came into the 2007 with similar momentum (though not as strong as 2009 or this season)…..

      Prior to the suspension (MSG fight) and Iverson trade, which set Melo back two years IMO, he was averaging 31.6 ppg on 50.3% from the field with a .570 TS ( and no 3pt shot)….

      That’s after averaging 27.7 ppg on 49% from the field and .573 TS in the final 67 games of 2005.

      For a variety of reasons, he’s never been able to sustain over the length of one season.

      But I think that changes this year, and Melo will be in the MVP running starting sometime in late December.

      ruruland

    6. ephus

      Shorter Ruru:

      1. Lin with ‘Melo; plus
      2. Healthy ‘Melo in fighting shape equals

      Best ‘Melo results ever. Happy Happy Joy Joy!

    7. Frank

      Great analysis Ruru – I’m not totally sure about your methodology (having tried to make sense of Synergy stats myself and having had a lot of frustration re: lack of data about lineups, player combos etc.), but you definitely get the feeling that Melo’s unbelievably terrible jumpshooting this year was mostly responsible for his numbers from Jan-March.

      This is really going to be a lot of work for Woodson and co. to figure out how to make all these parts work. You have 3 high volume scorers just in the starting lineup (Amare/Melo/Lin), as well as JR coming off the bench. You have two guys who duplicate each other on their best play (TC and Amare on the PNR). I think working the lineup rotations correctly is probably the most important thing in keeping this offense running smoothly. It’ll never happen but I still think Amare coming off the bench is the best thing for this team.

      Re: whatever it is Morey is doing in Houston — you get the feeling that he is trying to trade 3 quarters for a dollar (in Simmons-talk) but didn’t he just do the exact opposite with this Dalembert deal? I’m sure he tried, but who says no to this deal (which can’t happen anymore):

      Dalembert, Lowry, Kevin Martin + #14 +#16 + #18
      for
      Howard + Duhon + Richardson + #19

      That’s about as good an offer as you’ll ever see considering the draft picks and salary relief.

    8. ruruland

      Frank, the Lin analysis was pretty easy because it was a small sample. All I had to do was go to the video log and log the results of each play for which Melo and Lin were on the floor. You can see all of Melo’s transition, spot-up, pick and roll plays with he and Lin on the floor.. they all occured in the same section of the season.

      It really only took about 30 minutes to log those plays.

      Finding TS% for each of the shot scenarios for 2010 and 2011 took a little more work, but all of the data was available and I didn’t have to seperate any the data into different time periods, it was just aggregate numbers from the two seasons.

      Included in the transition numbers are unassisted transition attempts.

    9. ruruland

      Also, that projection is not only based on Melo’s ’10 and ’11 numbers, but it assumes that his put back and “other play” efficiency stays constant from that time frame as well. They make up about 6-7% of total shots on average.

    10. Frank

      ruruland: Frank, the Lin analysis was pretty easy because it was a small sample. All I had to do was go to the video log and log the results of each play for which Melo and Lin were on the floor. You can see all of Melo’s transition, spot-up, pick and roll plays with he and Lin on the floor.. they all occured in the same section of the season.

      Wow – you went play by play. that’s a lot of work. thanks for doing that! so was Melo’s terrible jumpshooting due to lots of contested shots, or just missing makeable Js?

    11. Z

      I know it’s in poor taste to say it, consideringg all the work that Ruru has already put into this thread (and it’s only 6:30 am in Denver!), but that line about Carmelo’s wax likeness bearing an uncanny resemblance…down to his perpetual holding of the ball, made me laugh really hard.

    12. ruruland

      Frank: Wow – you went play by play. that’s a lot of work. thanks for doing that! so was Melo’s terrible jumpshooting due to lots of contested shots, or just missing makeable Js?

      No, they were good looks.

      Like I said though, 55 TS % on spot-ups, hand-offs and screens in ’11.

    13. Frank

      One thing about WoW patting themselves on the back with their draft “history”. It is beyond easy to critique others’ draft history in hindsight, much harder to be the person doing the actual pick (just as in anything, it’s harder to actually DO something than criticize it afterward).

      I would assume most teams go by their draft boards which are partially based on actual player grade and partially based on perceived team needs. When a player gets picked, they get removed from the board and all the other players on it move up one slot. But no one publishes their draft board, so it is really impossible to know how good teams are at ranking players. It is entirely possible that the Knicks 2009 draft board looked like this:

      1) Blake Griffin
      2) James Harden
      3) Ricky Rubio
      4) Stephen Curry
      5) Tyreke Evans
      6) Jordan Hill
      7) Ty Lawson
      8) Jrue Holiday
      9) Darren Collison
      10) Taj Gibson

      So the only mistake they made in ranking players was Jordan Hill, but they would have hit 9 out of 10 picks.

      What does Sam Presti look like right now if Portland picks Durant instead of Oden?

      You can have the greatest draft board in the world but if you make a mistake on one ranking, that’s all anyone sees. So to criticize all GMs based on hindsight is pretty arrogant IMHO. Some GMs are obviously horrible, and picks like Frederic Weis over Ron Artest are indefensible, but there really are a lot of smart people in front offices now.

    14. Z

      Ruru, I have a practical question about Carmelo’s weight loss: Will his svelter body make it harder for knick fans to hit him with the expletives they hurl at him?

    15. jon abbey

      Frank:
      One thing about WoW patting themselves on the back with their draft “history”.

      do they bring up Nick Fazekas a lot? also, why does anyone ever look at WoW for any reason except to mock them? I’d rather have Stephen A Smith drafting for my team than Berri, and I have zero respect for SAS.

    16. Kurt

      Ruru,
      Like Frank in 7, I have questions about putting all of them together. As I mentioned previously, I’m totally fine with Melo as screener, but you’d have to find something to do with Chandler and/or Amar’e to make an effective offense.

      The only way I can think it would work is a three point shooter playing the 2 at the top of the key (for floor balance/defense if miss) and:
      1. One of Amar’e/Chandler on the bench (and a three point shooter in the corner on the strong side to prevent help) or:
      2. Amar’e setting back screen on the weak side for Chandler, allowing Chandler to cut to the basket, and Amar’e an open jumper if his man helps to Chandler.

    17. thenamestsam

      Ruru, thanks for the very interesting analysis. The only thing I’m curious about is that you seem to be using this as a form of defense of Melo, which seems to suggest that you’ve implicitly internalized the Berri mantra that efficient scoring = good offensive player. If I understand your argument you’re basically saying that for all the reasons listed above with Lin Melo will shoot a high efficiency = Melo will be a better player. That seems to contradict most of your world view.

      To further flesh out this thought, the main point of the Melo defenders has been that his ability to take (and make) difficult shots, along with the fact that he creates space for others is why his offensive value can’t be captured by his shooting efficiency. But now you’re touting that Melo’s efficiency is going to skyrocket next year as a gold star in his favor. It seems like you’re playing both sides on this one. Basically, it seems to me a bit like you’re saying that if Melo shoots well efficient shooting is important, and if he doesn’t, it isn’t. I have no doubt that Melo’s efficiency will go way up when he’s mostly finishing layups at the rim in space provided by Lin. But if it were Fields making layups at the rim in space provided by Melo you’d mock (and I think rightly) anyone who tried to claim that this was somehow indicative of Fields’ value. You see what I’m saying?

      Essentially your whole comment reads more like a defense of Lin to me than a defense of Melo. If Melo can only be an efficient scorer when Lin is providing him with easy opportunities than isn’t Lin the valuable player? And shouldn’t that be a critique of Melo, that in order to shoot a decent percentage he needs someone else to make things easy for him? I thought he was supposed to be the guy making things easy for everyone else?

      I hope that doesn’t come across too argumentative, because I don’t mean it that way. I really appreciate the work you put into your post. I just want to work…

    18. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Between ruruland’s constant and belaboring Melo cocksucking and jon abbey’s asinine anti-WoW rants, this site has become a real shithole.

      And yeah, if you listen to ESPN radio as “analysis,” you’re a fucking moron. I’ll stand behind that, disrespectful or not.

      Hopefully I’ll get banned.

    19. StatsTeacher

      THCJ as an interested reader more than poster I enjoy everyone’s points. Yes Ruru carries water for Melo, but it’s great reading. I came on this site saying I thought Lin was a top 10 pg, which is admittedly, probably a stretch, but I based it on PER, which gave some support of that. But for you to come on and call people moron’s for what they listen too and/or read — uncalled for. Make your points (sometimes you even have good ones) without name calling.

    20. TelegraphedPass

      First of all, ruru: Nice work. These are all points you’ve made in previous threads but the numbers seem to support your position that Melo’s efficiency is enhanced by a strong penetrate-and-kick PG.

      It seems that this only matters if Melo lowers his usage rate and Lin is allowed to direct the offense. Coach Woodson has made it abundantly clear, however, that he places his faith and the offense in the hands of Melo and Amar’e. If Lin isn’t given the freedom to operate and spend a good amount of time dominating the ball then much of that benefit will be for naught.

      I assume that Woody ran the offense through Melo post-ups and isos primarily because of our weakness at PG. Will he be willing to reduce that in favor of a slashing offense initiated by Lin?

      Also, where does all this leave Amar’e Stoudemire? It’s great that Carmelo will almost certainly have a more efficient scoring year next season, but Stoudemire needs to be a much stronger scorer if the Knicks truly want to make playoff noise.

    21. Z

      Griz looking to trade the #25 pick for “a young veteran, preferably on the last year of his rookie contract.” Is Toney Douglas completely out of the running here?? (apparently they turned down Budinger, who was then dealt for the #18 pick, so maybe they over-estimated the market?:)

    22. Gideon Zaga

      You should see my therapist. She would love you.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Between ruruland’s constant and belaboring Melo cocksucking and jon abbey’s asinine anti-WoW rants, this site has become a real shithole.

      And yeah, if you listen to ESPN radio as “analysis,” you’re a fucking moron. I’ll stand behind that, disrespectful or not.

      Hopefully I’ll get banned.

    23. Frank

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:

      Hopefully I’ll get banned.

      You know, you don’t have to wait for Mike to ban you. You can just stop typing “knickerblogger.net” into your web browser. I’m not sure how the site will get along without your insightful analysis though.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: And yeah, if you listen to ESPN radio as “analysis,” you’re a fucking moron. I’ll stand behind that, disrespectful or not.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: More horseshit from ruruland under the guise of “basketball knowledge.”

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: While I don’t disagree that Pau for Carmelo would be an awful trade, it is comments like this that make me realize that you should probably learn to close your mouth while breathing.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: No shit. You’d rather have a player who was good at shooting than a player who wasn’t. What analysis!

    24. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Funny, Frank, you kept the part where I derided ruruland’s argument and dismissed the contradiction that I pointed to immediately thereafter.

      Are we actually debating whether ESPN radio is insightful analysis? Or are you taking issue with the way I phrased it? Which one is it? Pick one. Don’t cry about the way I phrase things as if it’s somehow more important than the sentiment behind it.

    25. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Gideon Zaga:
      You should see my therapist. She would love you.

      I hope you can understand my exasperation with this site. We used to have Mike K. posting all the time. Now we have ruruland sucking down Carmelo’s seed like it’s Pepsi-cola. It’s tiresome. Not as bad as jon abbey’s substanceless drivel, but this site used to be good. Now, aside from the improvement in writing style, it’s gone to shit.

    26. Frank

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Don’t cry about the way I phrase things as if it’s somehow more important than the sentiment behind it.

      Well actually in real life, the way you present yourself is often just as important as the substance of what you say. Unless you’re a billionaire in which case you can show up to work in a hoodie everyday and everyone will still kowtow to you. Are you a billionaire? Because if you’re not and can’t afford a bodyguard, and you talk to people like you talk to people here, you’ll probably get a fist in the mouth. To be honest, I think you’re probably reasonably pleasant on the surface in real life, keep all your angst inside, and let it loose here where internet anonymity protects you from any actual repercussions.

      Re: ESPN – just like most things in life, there are no absolutes. I think they have lots of guys worth listening to or reading – Coon, Hollinger, Haberstroh, Pruiti amongst them. I think even Bill Simmons has interesting insight at times, and is really entertaining to read pretty much all the time. Obviously there are some who are not worth listening to.

    27. Frank

      btw upon reading my last post I should say that the hoodie reference I made above was to Mark Zuckerberg, not Trayvon Martin or any other kind of reference like that.

    28. thenamestsam

      While the manner of expressing the comment was unnecessarily rude, THCJ is definitely right that using an appeal to authority in which the cited authority is an unnamed ESPNLA Radio host is one of the lamest arguments ever attempted on this or any other site.

      That said, complaining about the level of the comments while contributing things that solely serve to deride the other participants is also pretty weak.

    29. thenamestsam

      Z:
      Griz looking to trade the #25 pick for “a young veteran, preferably on the last year of his rookie contract.” Is Toney Douglas completely out of the running here?? (apparently they turned down Budinger, who was then dealt for the #18 pick, so maybe they over-estimated the market?:)

      I’d love to believe that, but turning down Buddinger shows that they probably have pretty high standards for what they’re getting back. They may have misread the market somewhat, but I doubt they’re going to reverse course to the point where they’d now accept TD. Buddinger is a very solid player who fits a real need for them. TD is a 12th man type barring a serious bounceback. Someone may take a small wager on that bounceback, but I can’t see the Grizz biting at that price when they clearly place a decent value on that pick.

    30. Glew

      The thing of it is I wasn’t even really using espnla host as an authority in the conversation of pau i was merely stating that as a generalized perception of his trade value. The hosts i was referring to are max kellermen and john ireland (guy who doubles as the announcer for games). but all of this is irrelevant to the knicks.

      Ruruland-solid report, hope it works out that way. that said i think a huge key to the future success of this team lies within what amare will bring to the table next year. He will be working out with olajawon (sp?) this summer and hopefully will get better at back to the basket scoring. does anyone think its possible he can get better at defense in a summer to an above average level? I feel like his d is just so suspect

    31. TelegraphedPass

      Glew: does anyone think its possible he can get better at defense in a summer to an above average level? I feel like his d is just so suspect

      His defensive fundamentals are atrocious. He doesn’t bend his knees on defense, and his biggest contribution is prowling the paint hunting for blocks. Which becomes less important with Tyson making quick, timely rotations and contesting everything in the middle.

      Amar’e isn’t just going to magically become a good defender at age 30. Nobody does that. The goal is to find creative ways to hide those weaknesses through systemic overhaul. Look at what Thibs and Garnett did to Ray Allen and Paul Pierce’s defense. They didn’t magically become good defenders; they got a specific role to play on defense and a fantastic help defender to manage their mistakes. It’s tougher to hide big men on defense, though. Typically, they are the second line after penetration.

    32. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Glew:
      The thing of it is I wasn’t even really using espnla host as an authority in the conversation of pau i was merely stating that as a generalized perception of his trade value. The hosts i was referring to are max kellermen and john ireland (guy who doubles as the announcer for games). but all of this is irrelevant to the knicks.

      Ruruland-solid report, hope it works out that way. that said i think a huge key to the future success of this team lies within what amare will bring to the table next year. He will be working out with olajawon (sp?) this summer and hopefully will get better at back to the basket scoring. does anyone think its possible he can get better at defense in a summer to an above average level? I feel like his d is just so suspect

      Max Fucking Kellerman, a boxing analyst, has NOTHING to do with NBA front offices’ trade value determinations.

    33. thenamestsam

      TelegraphedPass: His defensive fundamentals are atrocious. He doesn’t bend his knees on defense, and his biggest contribution is prowling the paint hunting for blocks. Which becomes less important with Tyson making quick, timely rotations and contesting everything in the middle.

      Amar’e isn’t just going to magically become a good defender at age 30. Nobody does that. The goal is to find creative ways to hide those weaknesses through systemic overhaul. Look at what Thibs and Garnett did to Ray Allen and Paul Pierce’s defense. They didn’t magically become good defenders; they got a specific role to play on defense and a fantastic help defender to manage their mistakes. It’s tougher to hide big men on defense, though. Typically, they are the second line after penetration.

      Agreed. Can Amare get marginally better on D? Sure. His positioning and awareness is so routinely terrible that just by paying a bit more attention and focusing he could find substantial improvement. But he’s never going to become an above-average defender. It’s far too late for that.

      Personally I don’t even have much hope for his making strides in his back to the basket game with Hakeem. Amare has shown very little progress in his game since he came in the league. Except for obvious changes in his athleticism, he’s almost exactly the same player he was in his third year in the league. Maybe a couple of extra feet of range on his jumper, but other than that I don’t think he’s grown at all as a player. He’s still a super elite finisher on the PnR who is a pretty good shooter, but he still can’t really Iso, doesn’t have a move in the post, and is terrible on the boards and on D for his size. The fact that he hasn’t added a post move yet gives me small hope for this offseason.

    34. Frank

      TelegraphedPass: Amar’e isn’t just going to magically become a good defender at age 30. Nobody does that. The goal is to find creative ways to hide those weaknesses through systemic overhaul.

      I’m not sure Amare’s defensive issues are knee bending or other physical issues, although I’m sure he (and everyone) could use help with that stuff – I think it’s defensive awareness. As a 1-on-1 defender I don’t think he’s that bad – it’s just that if you put him in a PNR he really struggles. But if you tell him to hedge hard or trap and limit the decisions he has to make, maybe he’ll improve. I thought he played much better on the defensive end in the 2nd half of the year.

      Back to the draft– what don’t we like about Hollis Thompson again? He’s 6’8″, shoots 44% from 3 point range, and apparently tries on defense? He can’t play a Mike Miller or James Jones role for us as a spot up 3 point shooter?

    35. jon abbey

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Max Fucking Kellerman, a boxing analyst, has NOTHING to do with NBA front offices’ trade value determinations.

      and neither does your hero Dave Berri, who understands nothing about basketball. talk shit about me all you want, but I am sticking with that assessment.

    36. TelegraphedPass

      Frank: Back to the draft– what don’t we like about Hollis Thompson again? He’s 6’8?, shoots 44% from 3 point range, and apparently tries on defense? He can’t play a Mike Miller or James Jones role for us as a spot up 3 point shooter?

      I would be interested in Hollis. He definitely strikes me as a James Jones type, but hopefully would be a better defender. His FT% concerns me, though.

    37. Glew

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Max Fucking Kellerman, a boxing analyst, has NOTHING to do with NBA front offices’ trade value determinations.

      Actually he has been covering the lakers all year. You have no idea what you are talking about. It doesn’t matter though cuz its pretty clear that pau’s trade value is relatively low while melo’s is relatively high. You happen to be in the minority of people that want melo out so your pissed at everyone who see’s something in this team. Get over yourself bro.

    38. Z

      thenamestsam: I’d love to believe that, but turning down Buddinger shows that they probably have pretty high standards for what they’re getting back. They may have misread the market somewhat, but I doubt they’re going to reverse course to the point where they’d now accept TD. Buddinger is a very solid player who fits a real need for them. TD is a 12th man type barring a serious bounceback. Someone may take a small wager on that bounceback, but I can’t see the Grizz biting at that price when they clearly place a decent value on that pick.

      What about the #25 pick for Fields? Is there any way to trade him for a pick or does his rfa status make that impossible?

      (if Budinger is worth the #18 pick, where would that put Fields’ theoretical value? He was pretty bad, but had a high profile rookie year and won an award recently for his tweeting, so there’s a chance his value is higher than knick fans place on him, no?$

    39. stratomatic

      ruruland,

      I can appreciate your hard work, but I can’t understand the love affair you have with Melo (unless you are his agent – lol)

      This is a max player that admitted he wasn’t giving 100% on both ends for D’Antoni and now apparently is admitting he wasn’t at his optimal weight either. So I guess coach not only didn’t hold him accountable on the court, he didn’t hold him accountable for what he ate or how much of it either. smh

      With all dues respect, if you took the time to break out the stats for LEGITIMATELY great scorers like Durant, Dirk, James, Wade and others of the past you could cherry pick all kind of stats that made them look better than they are too. Except they would still be more efficient scorers than Melo and in many ways WAY BETTER all round players.

      I don’t hate the guy. He’s simply overrated and a very marginal max player (and I’m being generous because Joe Johnson is worse).

      Don’t get me wrong. He has talent. But he takes more bad shots than some of the other high usage scorers I mentioned and is actually not a great shooter at all.

      Until he figures out how to play the game correctly he’ll always underachieve no matter how much some fans admire his PPG, tough shot making, willingness to shoot under pressure, and other gifts etc…

      IMHO, you cannot win a championship with him as you your #1 scorer the way he plays now. I practically consider that a mathematical certainty. Either he changes or you’ll still be arguing how great he is and making excuses for him 3 years from now after several more 1st and 2nd round exits.

    40. Frank

      @44 – I largely agree with you, but I will say this in Melo’s defense. His playoff rounds thus far for the Knicks should basically be thrown out in terms of any sort of evidence of whether or not we can with with him. Through no fault of his own, we have been decimated by injuries both years, and by and large, he has clearly been the best player on the floor for us both last year against Boston and this year against Miami.

      This year – with a full training camp, a coach that seems to have his ear/heart, and hopefully with a healthy team – will and should be the year that he puts it together. I have basically been willing to suspend judgment on him because of the injuries and zero continuity – but there are no such excuses this year.

    41. TelegraphedPass

      @44 Is it really fair to rip him apart like after his second-worst scoring season of his career?

      He’s been the focal point of several great Denver offenses. Your implication is that Anthony inherently destroys offenses by the nature of his shot selection. How is it that Denver had above average offenses for the past half-decade if Carmelo is so terrible?

    42. thenamestsam

      TelegraphedPass:

      How is it that Denver had above average offenses for the past half-decade if Carmelo is so terrible?

      To me it’s this kind of statement that always leads to the breakdown of the dialogue over Carmelo. Here’s what stratomatic actually said:

      “I don’t hate the guy. He’s simply overrated and a very marginal max player (and I’m being generous because Joe Johnson is worse).”

      That’s not even remotely similar to saying that he’s “so terrible”. Not even remotely. So you’re battling a strawman there.

      Does your argument work if you say “How is it that Denver had above-average offenses for the last half-decade if Carmelo is only a marginal max player?”. Not really, which is why you resort to the strawman. It’s perfectly conceivable to me that a guy who is a marginal max player (say somewhere in the 20-40 range of players overall depending on how many max guys you think there are) could be the focal point of a consistently above average offense with the right other pieces in place.

      This is not intended as an argument against Carmelo, just pointing out that the counterargument you use doesn’t actually work as an argument against what was actually said, as opposed to the strawman you created out of what was said.

    43. ephus

      Changing the topic for a moment (because we can always get back to debating Melo’s worth), Mark Jackson is in the middle of an ugly situation.

      http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/mark-jackson-extortion-plot-879234

      According to Jackson, six years ago he had an affair with a then-22 year old exotic dancer (Alexis Adams), which he ended and admitted to his wife. This spring, when the Warriors went to Memphis, he was accosted by a 40-year-old male colleague (Marcus Shaw) of Adams. Jackson stated that he paid Shaw $5,000 so that compromising pictures and phone messages would not be released to the press. Two weeks later, Shaw sent a message to Jackson’s wife, demanding more money. At that point, Jackson informed the Warriors of the situation, and brought his case to the FBI. Shaw and Adams have been arrested on federal extortion charges.

      In the words of Joe Walsh, “its hard to handle, this fortune and fame.”

    44. Gideon Zaga

      Oh God After all this boring discussion day in day out about Melo being good or max whatever, I’m somewhat inclined to agree with THCJ. Unlike most of you I am not ashamed to admit that I am a Melo apologist but even me will assert to the fact that Ruru’s rants are becoming tiresome. In fact I skip his comments a lot these days. I just wish he could spend his talents on others on the team as well. How about a report on Amare’s offense/defense or Shumpert or TC. Don’t get me wrong I love the guy’s passion but personally it’s just becoming unbecoming. I love Melo but I love the Knicks more.

    45. ephus

      @ 49,

      I have accepted that Ruru is a ‘Melo fan who cares about the rest of the Knicks only to the extent that they impact on Carmelo Anthony and his place in the game. I am fairly certain that if Ruru did a breakdown on any of the other Knicks, it would be designed to show that player through the prism of ‘Melo.

      I love the Knicks but I cannot yet say that I love Melo. There have been moments of deep infatuation (like Game 2 of the Boston series) when he reminded me of classic Bernard King. More importantly, this board needs to be about more than ‘Melo.

    46. ephus

      jon abbey:
      no actual news here, but:

      N.B.A. and Union Moving Toward Bird Rights Settlement

      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/sports/basketball/nba-and-union-moving-toward-bird-rights-settlement.html?_r=1&smid=tw-share

      I hope whoever follows Howard Beck on the Knicks Beat will continue his excellence in reporting. From this story, I take it that both sides have decided that certainty going into free agency is more important than prevailing on the underlying issue. I would not be surprised if the compromise is that the four players at issue get Bird rights, but that going forward being placed on waivers resets the clock for Bird rights (in the way that Larry Coon’s FAQ cbafaq.com had described).

    47. TelegraphedPass

      thenamestsam: This is not intended as an argument against Carmelo, just pointing out that the counterargument you use doesn’t actually work as an argument against what was actually said, as opposed to the strawman you created out of what was said.

      I wasn’t being very clear, so that’s my fault. stratomatic didn’t say Melo was terrible, and I didn’t mean to put words in his mouth (text? fingers? anyways).

      I was more speaking to his final point that he believes it impossible to win a title with Carmelo as your primary scoring option. Denver has posted very efficient seasons starring Carmelo Anthony in their offense so my point was that Carmelo, overrated or not, doesn’t seem to be in opposition with effective offense.

      Can you win a title with a team fifth overall in offensive efficiency, as Denver was a few years ago? I believe so. That’s more what I was trying to say. I just constructed my argument rather lazily.

    48. ephus

      Last thought for a while. Bill Simmons has thrown out this trade, asking who says no. Stoudemire/Shumpert/Douglas to Atlanta for Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams.

      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=873bmwb

      As much as I love Shumpert, I do that trade in a heartbeat. While Johnson and ‘Melo are similar offensive players, I think that they mesh much better than Stoudemire and Chandler. Lin/Johnson/Williams/Anthony/Chandler with Smith/Novak/Fields/Jeffries and a mini-MLE veteran backup point guard is a championship contender.

      Frankly, I cannot imagine the Hawks doing the deal.

    49. TelegraphedPass

      I would love to discuss other players, but nobody ever really wanted to talk about Jerome Jordan or Marcus Denmon when I brought them up :'(

    50. formido

      Then @stratomatic was also burning a straw man, because @ruruland never says Carmelo is the best thing since sliced bread. @stratomatic should stick to refuting what @ruruland actually writes.

      Like @ruruland, I think Melo is going to be better next year. I think Lin gives him the opportunity to be much better and more efficient. I think Melo does put difficult-to-measure pressure on the defense. I think Melo’s clutch scoring is critical to late post-season success, so even if Melo can’t carry a team by himself in the regular season, I think he can be the leading scorer on a championship team if he has the right pieces around him. I think he is close to having the right pieces around him with some luck in the off season, Lin’s development, and injuries. I think the stretch after Woodson took over when the Knicks had all our starters is indicative of the potential of this team, and I think this is ignored by the pessimistic hand-wringers who seem to post a lot around here.

      Maybe @ruruland isn’t a born Knicks fan. Who cares? This is a public forum and he contributes more insightful analysis than pretty much anyone here. He goes to great lengths to back up his claims, another rarity.

      My childhood team (the Sonics) was stolen from me. I follow story lines now, and I started following the Knicks because Lin became a sensation, and I’ve always liked Stat, Chandler, and Melo. So, please do bite me with your No True Scotsman fallacies.

      thenamestsam: To me it’s this kind of statement that always leads to the breakdown of the dialogue over Carmelo. Here’s what stratomatic actually said:

    51. ruruland

      Guys, all I was doing with my “rant” was backing up the assertions I made throughout the year about the difference a certain kind of point guard makes.

      People questioned my assertions . So this was an opportunity to use statistical analysis and real numbers to specifically back up the arguments I made months ago.

      I was not necessarily arguing that higher efficiency equals “better”.

      Not by any stretch, though in this situation for a variety of reasons I believe it will (primarily because a decreased responsibility in shot creation will be better for everyone. Lin nor Melo won’t be asked to carry all of that responsibility)

      Throughout the year I’ve analyzed alll the Knicks players, focusing on Shumpert, Amar’e, Lin and even Fields. The first three are by far the most fascinating going into next season, and I’m interested to see what Fields will look like with an average jump shot.

      To say that I only analyze the Knicks through the prism of Carmelo Anthony is not fair and it’s not true.

      THCJ brings absolutely nothing to this board and I have no idea why our opinion of him seems so important to him, or why we should feel his opinion of us is important us.

    52. ruruland

      TelegraphedPass:
      I would love to discuss other players, but nobody ever really wanted to talk about Jerome Jordan or Marcus Denmon when I brought them up :’(

      I love talking about Jerome Jordan. I haven’t looked at Denmon long enough to have an informed opinion.

    53. Jafa

      What has happened to my Knickerblogger? When did it become Meloblogger? Do we all now have to identify as a “Melo lover” or “Melo hater” on this site? And the hate, venom and language feels like a bar scene with Drake and Chris Brown (with Melo as Riyanna).

      Can’t we all just get along (or at least agree to disagree)?

    54. johnlocke

      I don’t do that trade. Melo and Johnson are too duplicative and it doesn’t make us better than Miami. Not willing to give up on Amare after one season in which he was injured, lost his brother and punched a hole in the wall. I also don’t want to trade Shumpert for Marvin Williams — provided Shump comes back healthy, his potential is too good to trade right now. We can get rid of Douglas through other means. If I’m Grunwald, I’d say no to Joe.

      ephus:
      Last thought for a while.Bill Simmons has thrown out this trade, asking who says no.Stoudemire/Shumpert/Douglas to Atlanta for Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams.

      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=873bmwb

      As much as I love Shumpert, I do that trade in a heartbeat.While Johnson and ‘Melo are similar offensive players, I think that they mesh much better than Stoudemire and Chandler.Lin/Johnson/Williams/Anthony/Chandler with Smith/Novak/Fields/Jeffries and a mini-MLE veteran backup point guard is a championship contender.

      Frankly, I cannot imagine the Hawks doing the deal.

    55. er

      Eff the naysayers keep doing what you do. You are needed to balance all of the antipathy that this board has to the Knicks best player. No hes not lebron but who is. We can build around this team with good management

      ruruland:
      Guys, all I was doing with my “rant” was backing up the assertions I made throughout the year about the difference a certain kind of point guard makes.

      People questioned my assertions . So this was an opportunity to use statistical analysis and real numbers to specifically back up the arguments I made months ago.

      I was not necessarily arguing that higher efficiency equals “better”.

      Not by any stretch, though in this situation for a variety of reasons I believe it will (primarily because a decreased responsibility in shot creation will be better for everyone. Lin nor Melo won’t be asked to carry all of that responsibility)

      Throughout the year I’ve analyzed alll the Knicks players, focusing on Shumpert, Amar’e, Lin and even Fields. The first three are by far the most fascinating going into next season, and I’m interested to see what Fields will look like with an average jump shot.

      To say that I only analyze the Knicks through the prism of Carmelo Anthony is not fair and it’s not true.

      THCJ brings absolutely nothing to this board and I have no idea why our opinion of him seems so important to him, or why we should feel his opinion of us is important us.

    56. er

      amen

      Jafa:
      What has happened to my Knickerblogger?When did it become Meloblogger?Do we all now have to identify as a “Melo lover” or “Melo hater” on this site?And the hate, venom and language feels like a bar scene with Drake and Chris Brown (with Melo as Riyanna).

      Can’t we all just get along (or at least agree to disagree)?

    57. johnlocke

      There are 62 posts today, there have been many many days since the season ended when there were zero posts, for anyone to be annoyed at ruruland for posting is just stupid.

      As Melo goes, so will the Knicks — we are not going anywhere without Melo playing to his full potential for an entire season….ruru is amongst the most optimistic here that this will happen and has reason to think so — I’m excited about the fact that he’s lost weight, is ‘extra motivated’ and is playing on the Olympic team this summer.

      This coming season is the season of no excuses — it’s the season when Melo’s career as a Knick will really be defined in one way or another… I hope ruru is right and he becomes the Melo of April from this year (in efficiency, not necessarily PPG) for entire season.

      We. shall. see.

    58. jon abbey

      again, the problem with the site is that it’s thread-based instead of forum-based, as it was briefly a few years back. if it was forum based, ruru could talk about Melo to his heart’s content in one thread, THCJ could give handies to Berri in another, and no one would have to see either if they didn’t want.

      more importantly, discussions could last longer than 48 hours. it’s hard to put in time and effort to a post or series of posts that you know will essentially disappear a day or two later.

    59. ephus

      I think that JR Smith is the most interesting Knick to put under the statistical microscope. We know he is an elite athlete. In the past, he was an elite 3 point shooter, although he did not show it this year. He seems to be an elite finisher at the rim (but I am not certain whether the numbers would bear that out). He loves the step back jumper, but is he taking that shot too early in the shot clock? Is there a core of JR Smith that would be an elite player, or is he too much sizzle and not enough steak?

    60. jon abbey

      ephus:
      Last thought for a while.Bill Simmons has thrown out this trade, asking who says no.Stoudemire/Shumpert/Douglas to Atlanta for Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams.

      hmm, leaving aside my unnatural love for Shumpie, I think I like that. so that would leave us with:

      Chandler
      Melo
      Marvin Williams
      Johnson
      Lin

      JR Smith?
      Novak?
      Jeffries?

      not sure I’m crazy about Melo having to defend PFs every game, but I do love the length there at SG/SF/PF, and it would be nice to dump Toney. not sure, maybe…

    61. Jafa

      jon abbey: hmm, leaving aside my unnatural love for Shumpie, I think I like that. so that would leave us with:

      Chandler
      Melo
      Marvin Williams
      Johnson
      Lin

      JR Smith?
      Novak?
      Jeffries?

      not sure I’m crazy about Melo having to defend PFs every game, but I do love the length there at SG/SF/PF, and it would be nice to dump Toney. not sure, maybe…

      I like a Melo-Johnson combo (two guys that can initiate offense on their own and get their own shot) with Chandler cleaning up the glass and Lin attacking and shooting. But I would love better shooting. What is Marvin William’s 3P% and TS% again?

    62. jon abbey

      also I’m semi-intentionally forgetting about Fields there. I would be the happiest man in the world if he never suited up in blue and orange again.

    63. jon abbey

      what would really be ideal is if we could add more somehow and get Josh Smith instead of Marvin Williams. now that would be a team with a shot.

    64. TelegraphedPass

      ephus: I think that JR Smith is the most interesting Knick to put under the statistical microscope. We know he is an elite athlete. In the past, he was an elite 3 point shooter, although he did not show it this year. He seems to be an elite finisher at the rim (but I am not certain whether the numbers would bear that out). He loves the step back jumper, but is he taking that shot too early in the shot clock? Is there a core of JR Smith that would be an elite player, or is he too much sizzle and not enough steak?

      I’ve been a JR fan for a while. He’s got so many blatant flaws, but he’s a fun guy to follow.

      Early in his career, he was more of a spot up shooter than anything. He didn’t take midrange shots at all, really. He didn’t get a green light to shoot from midrange until 2009. Unsurprisingly, his efficiency declined immediately.

      It’s tough, because JR is absolutely capable of creating decent looks for himself. He turned in a weak season immediately following the expansion of his role, but followed that with a much stronger one as he became more comfortable. With this team, I think JR would be better suited to largely returning to a job as a spot up shooter. Although it may be worth mentioning that that ’09-’10 season when JR started taking more midrange shots Denver posted a top 5 spot in offensive efficiency on the season.

      I don’t think JR will ever be truly an elite player. He struggles in getting to the rim, his handle is suspect, and his defense is woefully inconsistent. However, he’s a MUCH better decision-maker with the ball in his hands than he gets credit for, he has solid footwork (allowing him to shoot relatively well off the dribble), and he seems to want to adapt his game to fit a winning culture. I would love to have him back.

    65. ruruland

      All true and great post, TP.

      What you missed though was the fact that in ’09 Smith played a lot of point guard, putting him in a lot more shot-creation scenarios he’s simply not that good in, as we saw in his absolutely horrific playoff series against Miami. Woodson essentially tried to do the same thing with Woodson Karl did. JR is a good pnr passer, but struggles creating his own shot (is just average in terms of efficiency)

      AS you said, for all of his athleticism, his first step quickness isn’t great, and he doesn’t seem to get a lot of torque on his drives.

      But here’s the thing, even in a down year, Smith was 56th last season in spot-up efficiency and 34th in transition.

      In 2010, he was the 8th best spot up player in the NBA, shooting a Novak like 46.6 percent on 3s!!! He was also 6th off-screens and 4th in dribble hand-offs.

      In 2009, he was 38th in spot-up efficiency and the best player in the NBA on “cuts”…..

      Smith is an IDEAL off-ball roll player. With Lin and a competent second point guard, you can put him back into a position where he’s extremely efficient.

      When you combine his defense and age, I think JR Smith would be the best possible free agent signing the Knicks could make.

    66. Z

      jon abbey:
      also I’m semi-intentionally forgetting about Fields there. I would be the happiest man in the world if he never suited up in blue and orange again.

      Not sure which is more unnatural– your love for Shumpie or your hatred for Fields :)

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