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Friday, October 31, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jun 13 2013)

  • [New York Daily News] Kidd getting Nets gig irks Ewing Jr. (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 05:00:37 GMT)
    The Nets job came and went and former Knicks great Patrick Ewing is still not a head coach in the NBA. And that didn’t set too well with his son, Patrick, Jr., who took to Twitter tovoice his displeasure.    

  • [New York Daily News] As Kidd takes Nets job, pressure’s on Knicks’ Felton (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 02:57:41 GMT)
    Raymond Felton won’t have Jason Kidd to look up to on the basketball court next season. He can no longer bank on Kidd’s basketball IQ or to get him out of a bad shooting slump or count on his former teammates’ one-on-one motivational talks.    

  • [New York Post] Veteran Kidd beats Knicks once again (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 04:00:28 -0500)
    Buyer beware. Knicks general manager Glen Grunwald probably wishes he had that $3.1 million mid-level exception from last summer to spend a different way.
    It’s one thing if Jason Kidd, 40, rode off into the sunset with a TNT gig or as Sacramento Kings assistant. But 10 days…

  • [New York Post] James promises to be more aggressive (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 04:00:28 -0500)
    SAN ANTONIO — After having a night to sleep on his poor — by his standards — showing in Game 3 of these NBA Finals, LeBron James declared that in Game 4 Thursday night things would go differently.
    “I’ll be better,” James said. “I’ll be much better.”
    And that means?
    “Better…

  • [New York Post] Ewing son tweets: Dad getting dissed for coaching jobs (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 02:50:22 -0500)
    Patrick Ewing’s son took to Twitter to express anger Jason Kidd got a head-coaching job so quickly, while his father was just named this week to another assistant’s gig — in Charlotte.
    Kidd was named Nets head coach Wednesday night. Ewing has been an assistant for nine seasons since…

  • [New York Times] James: ‘Something Has to Give’ in Game 4 of Finals (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 07:12:07 GMT)
    Even after winning 27 in a row during the regular season, the Miami Heat don’t want to rely on a three-game winning streak now.    

  • [New York Times] Kidd Named New Brooklyn Coach (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 05:23:20 GMT)
    The Brooklyn Nets made a major splash by naming recently retired point guard Jason Kidd as their new head coach on Wednesday.    

  • [New York Times] Nets Reach Into Past and Make Kidd Coach (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 02:25:13 GMT)
    In an unconventional move, the Nets named Jason Kidd as their next coach. Kidd recently retired as a player and has no experience as a coach.    

  • [New York Times] James Takes the Blame for Miami’s Struggles (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 01:47:32 GMT)
    The Heat, facing a 2-1 deficit in the N.B.A. finals against the Spurs, ultimately rise and fall based on the strength, talent and poise of LeBron James, their star and leader.    

  • [New York Times] Nets Hire Jason Kidd as Coach (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 01:26:44 GMT)
    The Brooklyn Nets hired Jason Kidd as their coach Wednesday, bringing the former star back to the franchise he led to its greatest NBA success.    

  • [New York Times] Status of Spurs’ Parker Uncertain for Game 4 vs. Heat (Thu, 13 Jun 2013 01:09:30 GMT)
    Spurs Coach Gregg Popovich said he would not know until Thursday whether Tony Parker, who has a Grade 1 hamstring strain, would play.    

  • 74 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jun 13 2013)

    1. Vinny L.

      Would anybody here be open to

      1) Ditching inconsistent J.R. For Nate Robinson and then drafting Tim Hardaway or Glen Rice Jr (played with Shump at Georgia Tech).
      2) Draft Tony Mitchell or Deing
      3) Sign Shumpert’s friend PF Gani Lawal
      4) Use Mini MLE on C Timofey Mozgov
      5) Re-sign Cope
      6) Re-sign K-Mart

    2. Vinny L.

      7) Buyout Camby
      8) Don’t play Amar’e and his weak knees until the second half of the season.
      9) Along with Nate Robinson, I’m seeing rumors about Nick Young

    3. flossy

      1) HA! No.
      2) Dieng won’t be there, Mitchell hell no
      3) Sure?
      4) Meh
      5) If he’ll come cheap
      6) If he’ll come cheap
      7) What’s the point
      8) No
      9) HELL FUCKING NO ARE YOU KIDDING ME COME ON

    4. yellowboy90

      I think you keep Jr and add Nate. Its not a either or deal. If you get Nate I would definitely tell JR to train as an off ball player ala Reddick/Dunleavy/Korver.

      )

    5. yellowboy90

      The thought of Mitchell is growing on me. As a role player he may not be that bad. The team who gets him will be playoff teams that are not looking for him to get big numbers. So they could spoon feed him and add to his game each season. I see him as K-Mart type with out the mechanical issues with his shot. Maybe he grows into more but I could see him having a year like Faried as a rookie. Boom or Bust player for sure.

    6. KnickfaninNJ

      I enjoy watching Nate, but didn’t really think there was a fit on the Knicks for him. But with Kidd gone I am not so sure. It’s still true that if your four guards with regular playing time are Felton, Prigioni, Smith and Nate (counting Shumpert as a 3), it’s hard to understand who would work with whom on the court. On the other hand, the Knicks are going to be very limited financially in what they can offer, and Nate may be the best available guard for the money. There is something to be said for getting the best available player. But this assumes they can keep Prigioni. I am not sure Nate works as a replacement for him.

    7. Hubert

      Frank:

      But that first paragraph brings up an interesting idea – would GS actually trade Lee + other bad filler like Biedrins or Jefferson for Amare?Lee’s deal runs through 15-16 which is not optimal, but he’s clearly a better player than the Okafor/Ariza mess that Hubert was talking about before.

      The 15-16 $ for Lee is sort of a downer since that’ll be the first time we really have any cap flexibility, but hmmm.

      The only thing I’ll say in defense of my crazy trade idea was that the main benefit of it was the cap relief in 2014. I think we all see the Heat are not built to last and LeBron will have another decision to make. You make that Amar’e for Ariza/Okafor trade, and:

      1. I don’t think you take a step back next year.

      2. Your cap situation, presuming Melo opts out and you can find a taker for Ray Felton, looks like this in 2014:

      Chandler $14.6mm
      Novak $3.5mm (and I would definitely want him with LeBron around)
      Shumpert $2.7mm
      Camby $4.2mm (non guaranteed)
      JR Smith $5mm (guessing)

      That’s $29.9mm and you have some flexibility. If LeBron and Melo want top dollar, you can move JR and waive Camby and you’ve got $40mm to re-sign Melo and bring in LeBron. If, like RuRu insists, Melo is about the team and you can get those goes for less than max, the JR + Camby’s nonguaranteed deal should be able to net us a very good player in a trade.

      So you could have a LeBron-Melo-Chandler-Shumpert core, plus a $9-$10 million player you could acquire for JR & Camby’s nonguaranteed contract, the FULL mid-level exception available to sign another player, the biannual exception, vet’s minimum guys, and Novak in the Mike Miller role.

      I know it’s crazy. But it’s a better path to a championship than banking on Amar’e Stoudemire, IMO.

    8. flossy

      Hubert: I know it’s crazy. But it’s a better path to a championship than banking on Amar’e Stoudemire, IMO.

      Seriously, man? Clearing cap space for LeBron AGAIN? Give it up, THAT IS NEVER HAPPENING.

    9. Frank

      RE: JR – since we would be signing him with Early Bird, there’s literally zero reason to let him go willingly – we can’t use that money to sign anyone else — unless it’s in a sign and trade. That’s actually sort of an interesting possibility, although I doubt JR would be happy about it (and he’d have to sign off on it I believe). One can sort of imagine something like Novak + JR for Ilyasova (Monta + JR would be hilarious), or JR for Jared Dudley + filler. None of those are awesome but probably worth kicking the tires on.

      My feeling is that Nate will get someone’s mini-MLE, but if not, he’s definitely worth going after for vet’s minimum, or with part of our mini-MLE if Prigs decides to go elsewhere.

      And by the way Vinny — you seem to think we have a lot more flexibility than we actually have. We have the mini-MLE and vet’s minimums — that’s it. So the idea that we can sign Nate, Mozgov, Prigioni, and Copeland seems farfetched at best.

      I think it’s highly likely that both Prigs and Cope get offers above the vet’s minimum, so we’ll probably have to use our whole mini-MLE to get them back in some combination. Then we hope that some good players fall through the cracks and are signable with vet’s minimums (seriously, how did anyone not sign Birdman– that guy has been amazing!), and that Grunwald can find another gem from Europe.

    10. Frank

      Hubert: I know it’s crazy. But it’s a better path to a championship than banking on Amar’e Stoudemire, IMO.

      You know what I think? I think we had a 40% chance of beating Miami in the ECFs this year. I think if we played Indy in a 7 game series 10 times, we’d win 5 and they’d win 5. And if Prigs and Copeland actually got some of the time that JR and Kidd got, I’d change that to 6-4 in our favor. And we swept SA in the season series (FWIW).

      I’m sure I’m looking at this through rose-colored glasses, but I don’t think this team is that far off. I realize the ECF will be tougher next year since Indy will have Granger back and Chicago presumably will have Rose back. But Miami hopefully will come back to the pack a little bit, and neither Chicago/Indy really scare me.

      There’s a lot of ifs, but IF Amare can stay healthy and give us high efficiency/volume scoring in 20-25 min/game, IF we don’t have other major injuries, IF we can get Prigs/Cope back, and IF we can get a draft pick that can contribute meaningful minutes, then I think we have a real shot next year. Again, that’s a lot of ifs — but I think having ALL those ifs happen is still 100x more likely to happen than LBJ opting out after 2014 and coming here.

    11. Vinny L.

      I’m talking about letting Prig walk. He got more playing time than Cope but has James White’s numbers lol.. After the way Cope was treated by Woodson this year, I wouldn’t blame Cope if he left.

      Also: Knicks currently owns a $954,389 TPE, or traded player exception, that they obtained in the deal with the Oklahoma City Thunder, shipping Ronnie Brewer out last February.
      Can this be applied and used for a second or low 1st round pick? Portland is the team I’m thinking of with a surplus of 2nd round picks.

      We could get Hardaway or Mitchell and pick up Pierre Jackson (who’s game is basically the same as Nate Robinson).

    12. flossy

      Vinny L.:
      I’m talking about letting Prig walk. He got more playing time than Cope but has James White’s numbers lol.. After the way Cope was treated by Woodson this year, I wouldn’t blame Cope if he left.

      Also:Knicks currently owns a $954,389 TPE, or traded player exception, that they obtained in the deal with the Oklahoma City Thunder, shipping Ronnie Brewer out last February.
      Can this be applied and used for a second or low 1st round pick? Portland is the team I’m thinking of with a surplus of 2nd round picks.

      We could get Hardaway or Mitchell and pick up Pierre Jackson (who’s game is basically the same as Nate Robinson).

      You are literally the only person who posts here who doesn’t see the obvious value of Prigioni. He was our best defensive PG, he ran the pick and roll expertly, he was the essence of an unselfish, high-IQ player, and when he did look to score he did so very efficiently, including shooting almost .400 from downtown.

      If you let him walk and replace him with a 5’9″ shooting guard because you thought he didn’t score enough points per game, you’re going to have a Bad Time.

    13. Hubert

      flossy: Seriously, man?Clearing cap space for LeBron AGAIN?Give it up, THAT IS NEVER HAPPENING.

      I know. I know.

      But it’s not “clearing cap space for LeBron” like it was in 2009. It’s bringing back the same exact team we had last year (with two overpriced backups instead of Amar’e on the DL) and competing with it one more time. And then, if it doesn’t work out, you have a CHANCE to be in play. And if not, you’re in no worse shape than you were otherwise.

      I’m not advocating tanking next year to go for LeBron. Dumping Amar’e Stoudemire’s contract is not tanking.

    14. Hubert

      Frank: You know what I think? I think we had a 40% chance of beating Miami in the ECFs this year.I think if we played Indy in a 7 game series 10 times, we’d win 5 and they’d win 5.And if Prigs and Copeland actually got some of the time that JR and Kidd got, I’d change that to 6-4 in our favor.And we swept SA in the season series (FWIW).

      I’m sure I’m looking at this through rose-colored glasses, but I don’t think this team is that far off. I realize the ECF will be tougher next year since Indy will have Granger back and Chicago presumably will have Rose back.But Miami hopefully will come back to the pack a little bit, and neither Chicago/Indy really scare me.

      There’s a lot of ifs, but IF Amare can stay healthy and give us high efficiency/volume scoring in 20-25 min/game, IF we don’t have other major injuries, IF we can get Prigs/Cope back, and IF we can get a draft pick that can contribute meaningful minutes, then I think we have a real shot next year.Again, that’s a lot of ifs — but I think having ALL those ifs happen is still 100x more likely to happen than LBJ opting out after 2014 and coming here.

      The funny thing is I am on the EXACT same page as you about how close we were this year. And I am completely in favor of giving last year’s team another chance next year. That’s the foundation that everything is built on. I am not in “blow up the team” mode.

      But from there my thoughts diverge, and the critical point that I disagree with you, flossy, and others on, is this:

      Was Amar’e part of what went right last year or what went wrong?

      That’s the fulcrum around which our decisions turn.

      In my opinion, giving last year’s team another shot means walking away from Amar’e Stoudemire.

    15. johnno

      Vinny L.: I’m talking about letting Prig walk. He got more playing time than Cope but has James White’s numbers lol.. After the way Cope was treated by Woodson this year, I wouldn’t blame Cope if he left.

      I think that most people would agree that, regardless of individual numbers, Prigioni was a whole lot more effective and valuable than James White. Re: Copeland — based on his statements right after the season ended, Copeland doesn’t feel like was treated poorly at all by Woodson or the organization. Pretty much the opposite — he carried on about how happy he was that the Knicks gave him a chance, how he would love to come back and how money is not the most important thing to him. I think that, if someone offers him a lot more money than the Knicks, he will probably jump at it (who in his shoes wouldn’t?) but, if the Knicks make an offer that is somewhat comparable to what he is offered elsewhere, he’ll be back.

    16. Kurt

      I just want to comment about the Kidd hire and the decision making process behind it:
      Kidd might end up being a good coach, but the decision to hire any player right after he retires smacks of headline chasing. Just about all of the Nets’ recent decisions have been all about chasing after big names rather than prudent basketball decisions. Jason Kidd was a bigger name than Brian Shaw, that’s why he got the job.

      Gerald Wallace and Joe Johnson are all stars, hence ruining their cap space to get them. Again, Wallace is a player whose only skill is his athleticism, which makes him ruined cap space already.

      Even if Williams returns to his peak, the Nets aren’t going much further considering that Wallace and Johnson are only going to be a year older this year.

      If Amar’e gives us efficient offense for 20-25 mins a game he’ll be a better contract than Johnson.

      To me, they seem like a better version of the Isaiah era Knicks.

    17. flossy

      Kurt: To me, they seem like a better version of the Isaiah era Knicks.

      Eh, they remind me a lot more of Woodson’s Hawks teams. Capped out with 2nd/3rd rate stars, guaranteed to me a middling playoff seed but not a threat to go very far in the playoffs.

      It is bizarre that with SO MANY good coaches on the market, the Nets would hire the one person with zero coaching experience at any level.

    18. Hubert

      The Nets are a joke. Kidd will be fired by January.

      The sad thing is they had a great chance to offer the area an actual alternative to the muck at Madison Square Garden, but instead they decided to imitate it.

      If they had a team built around Favors and Lopez plus two top 5 picks from the 2011 & 2012 draft, I think they would have offered an actual interesting alternative to the Knicks. I would never be tempted to jump ship, but that was a better strategy than “Make a splash and then fade away.”

    19. Frank

      Fascinating stuff from Nate Silver at the New York Times:

      http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/13/heats-clutch-stats-meet-match-in-spurs-strategy/?smid=tw-share&pagewanted=all

      Hubert: Was Amar’e part of what went right last year or what went wrong?

      That’s a great question. His +/- numbers remained pretty bad on a single-player basis last year (a net -3 points/100 poss), but a lot of that could/should be explained by the fact that he wasn’t on the floor much with the team’s best players – Melo, Tyson, Prigioni — and he was ALWAYS on the floor with JR. When on the floor with Melo/Tyson that group was a net +10 points/100 poss (compared with a net +7 when Melo/Tyson were on and Amare was off).

      I actually think a reasonable plan going forward with Amare is:
      1) he should work hard on the corner 3 this year so he can help space the floor in 1/5 or 3/5 PNR
      2) start Prigs/Felton + Shump + Melo + Amare + Tyson
      3) Amare comes out at the 6 minute mark for JR, Melo moves to the PF position
      4) Amare comes back in in 2nd quarter with Prigs, JR, Shump, and someone who can protect him defensively (K-Mart? Camby?) and is the focal point of the offense. Plays 6 minutes there too

      So basically he plays 6 minutes of each quarter. Working on corner 3 will help spacing when playing with the “big” lineup. Goes to work in post or as roll man with the 2nd unit.

    20. Frank

      btw you know what’s crazy? Dwyane Wade is a -40 points/100 poss in these Finals so far.

      Lebron is a +45/100 poss when he’s on the floor and Wade is off.

      Any lineup that has Wade is giving up 118 points/100 poss.
      Any lineup without Wade is giving up 98.8 points/100 poss.

      Just nuts how badly he’s playing.

      Here’s a great article about how horrible he’s been:
      http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2013/06/13/san-antonio-shooters/

    21. massive

      If you don’t want Prigioni on this team, you lack some fundamental understanding of how the game of basketball should be played. There is no better PG on the market that we can get, and he’s the best guard on our team right now. We need to make him our first signing this off-season.

    22. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Vinny L.: 1) Ditching inconsistent J.R. For Nate Robinson and then drafting Tim Hardaway or Glen Rice Jr (played with Shump at Georgia Tech).

      Why would anyone want either of those players? Because their dads were good?

    23. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      massive:
      If you don’t want Prigioni on this team, you lack some fundamental understanding of how the game of basketball should be played. There is no better PG on the market that we can get, and he’s the best guard on our team right now. We need to make him our first signing this off-season.

      Wins Produced says he’s good, but he’s a role player so he must be overrated.

    24. massive

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Wins Produced says he’s good, but he’s a role player so he must be overrated.

      Everybody says he’s good, honestly. Except for a few people who think “OMG HE DOESN’T SHOOT IT ENOUGH!!! GET NATE ROBINSON!!!” You know, people who need to take a deep breath and realize that he does everything else well. The only thing he’s not good at is volume scoring, and that’s the last thing this team needs right now.

    25. mokers

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Wins Produced says he’s good, but he’s a role player so he must be overrated.

      Maybe not Ronnie Brewer good though!

      I really can’t figure out if Vinny is a troll or not. I can understand why people would be infatuated with Nate. I don’t think he is right for the Knicks as they are currently constructed, but he could help a lot of teams. I could see where somebody sees the potential in Tim Hardaway JR and Glen Rice Jr. Then I got to the part where he mentioned Nick Young…

      Can’t figure out why anybody would be against Prigioni staying. Very fun to watch.

    26. massive

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Why would anyone want either of those players? Because their dads were good?

      Oh, and Glen Rice Jr. was great in the D-League. Look at his last season in college and his D-League stats. I’d have no problem bringing him in along with Gani Lawal (if he’s tearing up Euroleague the way I here he is). I’d prefer Reggie Bullock if we’re going with a wing in the draft, but Glen Rice Jr. wouldn’t be a bad option.

      http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/glen-rice-jr-1.html
      http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/r/ricegl01d.html

    27. KnickfaninNJ

      I think THCJ was being sarcastic. But really THCJ, if you and many other posters to this board agree on something, isn’t that a nice thing, not an occasion for sarcasm?

    28. Juany8

      Prigs is quite the nice player, he’s awesome on defense and he’s an excellent guard off the ball in the Jason Kidd role. I wish he would shoot a bit more frequently since the offense can bog down when he’s the lead guard, but overall he’s quite a nice player for the price we can get him for. Not a fan of Nate Robinson on the Knicks, I think he’s a nice player and I suppose for the vet min he would be worth it, but I don’t think he really adds anything to the team. Knicks should look into packaging Novak and camby for a player who can both shoot and play defense, maybe add in copeland if they can get someone legit.

    29. Hubert

      Frank:

      2) start Prigs/Felton + Shump + Melo + Amare + Tyson

      This is probably the best way to go if we’re bringing Amar’e back.

      I’m not a fan of the corner 3 idea for Amar’e, though. I mean, I’d love it if we could download 40% shooting on the corner 3 into his DNA, Neo-in-the-Matrix style, but it’s far more likely he ends up a 25-28% shooter and teams beg him to take that shot like they beg Bosh to shoot 3’s, and instead of spreading the offense he just gets left alone and clogs the lane even more.

      As an aside, I just read Simmons’ article on Duncan. Best part about it were the video clips, many of which were of a young Amar’e Stoudemire. Man that dude was so awesome.

    30. Nick C.

      I understand the concept of the corner three but I think it is a waste of Amare’s talents. He did spend all that time working on the post game with Hakeem last summer and looked pretty good to my eye test eyes.

      On an unrelated note, did anyone watch the NBA TV special on Julius Erving. The ABA clips (and 76ers) were sick beyond belief. He is the one forgotten all-time great and some or many of us saw him with the 76ers, at a minimum, when he was still damn good.

    31. Count de Pennies

      flossy: It is bizarre that with SO MANY good coaches on the market, the Nets would hire the one person with zero coaching experience at any level.

      Mark Jackson says Hi.

    32. flossy

      Count de Pennies: Mark Jackson says Hi.

      I’m not saying Kidd won’t do a decent job (although I did think Mark Jackson would fall on his face), but there is a glut of experienced, accomplished head coaches on the market right now, guys like Lionel Hollins, George Karl, Doug Collins, Stan van Gundy, possibly even Doc Rivers, to say nothing of guys like Brian Shaw who have been up-and-coming candidates for a while. There was not nearly this much of a buyer’s market when the Warriors were shopping for a head coach.

    33. flossy

      Hubert: I’m not a fan of the corner 3 idea for Amar’e, though. I mean, I’d love it if we could download 40% shooting on the corner 3 into his DNA, Neo-in-the-Matrix style, but it’s far more likely he ends up a 25-28% shooter and teams beg him to take that shot like they beg Bosh to shoot 3?s, and instead of spreading the offense he just gets left alone and clogs the lane even more

      I can’t find the link, but Chris Herring at the WSJ floated the Amar’e/corner 3 idea and backed it up with some stats that showed Amar’e to be a much better shooter from the long corners that you might expect (definitely better than 25-28%) and one of the league’s best at the 20-23′ jump shot, albeit in small samples.

      I don’t think it should ever be his primary role on offense, but if he can hit the 3 ball well enough that teams can’t leave him alone when he’s in the corner, the benefit of adding that shot to his repertoire would be huge.

    34. yellowboy90

      I think about 100-135 3pt attempts from Amar’e wouldn’t be a bad goal to have. Something like Patrick Patterson but with a low post game.

    35. yellowboy90

      You know whats funny to me is that I think Amar’e would be a better 3pt shooter than Wade would be.

    36. jon abbey

      Frank:
      Cool JA Adande article about dominant playoff performances. Sometimes I forget how ridiculously awesome Jordan was in the playoffs. I mean seriously- look at those numbers.And check out the name of the last player at the bottom of the article.

      http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/59676/59676

      yeah, he was 22 then and awesome, long ago and far away.

      Adande admits that criterion is pretty random, but actually looking at Amar’e’s box scores from that postseasons points up how much, as he was decidedly better the following series, against the Spurs, just going by game scores as Adande did:

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01/gamelog/2005/

    37. ruruland

      Nice posts, Frank, per usual.

      My response:
      See, I don’t think Amar’e should be trying to space the floor.

      Perhaps the Knicks best play last year was the double pnr.

      One can argue you don’t lose spacing with Amar’e at 4, so long as he has the ball.

      He is one of the best in the league at creating his own shot near the basket.

      A few facts:
      Amar’e played 283 minutes with Novak and the Knicks defense allowed 1.085 PPP.

      Without Novak on the floor, the defense with Amar’e on the court averaged 1.073 PPP.
      Without Novak 1.073

      The Knicks defense was actually better with Amar’e and Chandler on the floor than it was with just Amar’e: 1.047 with Chandler 1.026 with Amar’e and Chandler.

      We know about the dominance of Melo/Chandler/Amar’e

      But Amar’e, Chandler, Melo, Prigs?
      PPP 1.271, 72.1 TS

      Those 4 W/Smith PPP- 1.203

      With Amar’e and Melo in the lineup, Smith’s unassisted basket attempts go way down (and his TS goes way up).

    38. ruruland

      *The Knicks defense was actually better with Amar’e and Chandler on the floor than it was with just Chandler

    39. thenamestsam

      Frank:
      btw you know what’s crazy? Dwyane Wade is a -40 points/100 poss in these Finals so far.

      Lebron is a +45/100 poss when he’s on the floor and Wade is off.

      Any lineup that has Wade is giving up 118 points/100 poss.
      Any lineup without Wade is giving up 98.8 points/100 poss.

      Just nuts how badly he’s playing.

      Here’s a great article about how horrible he’s been:
      http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2013/06/13/san-antonio-shooters/

      Just wanted to say AMEN to this. People always want to talk about Lebron only all the time and his shooting and scoring have clearly been sub par in this series. But it’s not like San Antonio discovered something that nobody knew about before. Their plan is working in large part because of what the other players on the Heat are and aren’t doing, and a big part of that is how much Wade is throwing off their spacing, especially when he plays with 2 bigs in the starting lineup (which is why they’re going to start Miller tonight).

      There’s going to be a massive inquest if Miami do lose this series, but Wade is now averaging a 14-5-4 for the playoffs. With that version of Wade I think they’re doing about as well as you might expect. Lebron is really freaking good but I feel like we’ve established at this point that he’s not good enough to win a championship without a strong 2nd guy. Wade is far from that right now and Bosh isn’t really stepping up to fill the void.

    40. massive

      So far, the #2 and#13 picks are available in trades. Last year’s #5 is also available. Apparently the Lakers and Thunder are looking to trade up into the top 5 of this year’s draft. Orlando wants a good veteran in exchange for the #2 pick because they think a good veteran would allow them to contend for one of the lower playoff seeds. Is the economy that bad in central Florida?

      Too bad we don’t have any good veterans for sale (that are worth buying). I’d turn Amar’e Stoudemire into one of Ben McLemore or Anthony Bennett in a second.

    41. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Shit, I stand corrected on Glen Rice Jr. Looks good. High shooting efficiency. Maybe a good ORB% for D-League. Not sure.

      But Tim Hardaway? Look at the numbers. Do you want a project like that when there are lots of other players who have better projections?

    42. massive

      I’d pass on Tim Hardaway Jr. He’s not efficient enough to be a one trick pony on this level. If we’re going wing, I’d rather go after Rice Jr or Bullock.

    43. DCrockett17

      Frank:
      btw you know what’s crazy? Dwyane Wade is a -40 points/100 poss in these Finals so far.

      Lebron is a +45/100 poss when he’s on the floor and Wade is off.

      Any lineup that has Wade is giving up 118 points/100 poss.
      Any lineup without Wade is giving up 98.8 points/100 poss.

      Just nuts how badly he’s playing.

      Here’s a great article about how horrible he’s been:
      http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2013/06/13/san-antonio-shooters/

      That HP article read. my. mind.

    44. maxwell_3g

      Hubert: I know.I know.

      But it’s not “clearing cap space for LeBron” like it was in 2009.It’s bringing back the same exact team we had last year (with two overpriced backups instead of Amar’e on the DL) and competing with it one more time.And then, if it doesn’t work out, you have a CHANCE to be in play.And if not, you’re in no worse shape than you were otherwise.

      I’m not advocating tanking next year to go for LeBron.Dumping Amar’e Stoudemire’s contract is not tanking.

      I think Im in the minority here, but as a Knick fan, I DO NOT WANT LEBRON. I think its lame how Miami has gone about their crap and I certainly don’t want to have a bunch of lame bandwagoners claiming the Knicks in a few years. The best part of being a NYK fan is that although we haven’t won in 40 years, we have a very loyal fan base. I would rather get our championship organically than by begging Lebron and his 12 year old fans to jump aboard.

    45. yellowboy90

      massive:
      So far, the #2 and#13 picks are available in trades. Last year’s #5 is also available. Apparently the Lakers and Thunder are looking to trade up into the top 5 of this year’s draft. Orlando wants a good veteran in exchange for the #2 pick because they think a good veteran would allow them to contend for one of the lower playoff seeds. Is the economy that bad in central Florida?

      Too bad we don’t have any good veterans for sale (that are worth buying). I’d turn Amar’e Stoudemire into one of Ben McLemore or Anthony Bennett in a second.

      Portland are also willing to trade their 10th pick.

    46. maxwell_3g

      massive:
      I’d pass on Tim Hardaway Jr. He’s not efficient enough to be a one trick pony on this level. If we’re going wing, I’d rather go after Rice Jr or Bullock.

      wouldn’t that be like drafting PJ Brown’s son or reggie miller’s son? regardless, I don’t like his game either.
      I would love carter-Williams, but he aint getting to us. of course, I would also love deng, but I doubt he gets to us either. im intrigued by Schroeder, but he doesn’t get to us either. I guess in our draft spot, im interested in Mitchell, Canaan, and Plumlee, prob in that order. Mitchell is very intriguing, but he really reeks of Anthony Randolph in some ways.
      of course, all of this is coming from a guy who was completely sold on Johnny Flynn

    47. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      maxwell_3g: The best part of being a NYK fan is that although we haven’t won in 40 years, we have a very loyal fan base

      Dude, what? You don’t think NYC people know how to hop on a bandwagon?

    48. massive

      I hate Carter Williams. He can’t shoot and he’s not athletic enough to make up for it. I’ve been doing a lot of draft study and I can guarantee you that MCW will be a bust.

      Tony Mitchell is the ultimate boom or bust player. He’s already a great defender and rebounder. A season ago he shot 44% from 3, had a TS% around .630, and was a lottery pick. He said the team suffered from a lot of injuries, so it was easier for teams to focus on him. I wouldn’t be mad if we took him. He’s already shown that he can be productive.

    49. thenamestsam

      maxwell_3g: I think Im in the minority here, but as a Knick fan, I DO NOT WANT LEBRON.I think its lame how Miami has gone about their crap and I certainly don’t want to have a bunch of lame bandwagoners claiming the Knicks in a few years.The best part of being a NYK fan is that although we haven’t won in 40 years, we have a very loyal fan base.I would rather get our championship organically than by begging Lebron and his 12 year old fans to jump aboard.

      Aside from the fact that I’d take a championship however I can get it I’d add in Lebron’s favor that the Heat (when ticking obviously) play really beautiful basketball and that’s basically all because of Lebron. I loved how the Knicks played at their best this year when the ball was zipping around and Lebron’s passing would really add to that.

    50. flossy

      massive:

      Tony Mitchell is the ultimate boom or bust player. He’s already a great defender and rebounder. A season ago he shot 44% from 3, had a TS% around .630, and was a lottery pick. He said the team suffered from a lot of injuries, so it was easier for teams to focus on him. I wouldn’t be mad if we took him. He’s already shown that he can be productive.

      Great defender? Say what? Here’s DX:

      Mitchell’s defense is probably the area of his game that took the smallest setback this year (his per 40 pace adjusted blocks fell from 3.9 to 3.2), as he was already very inconsistent with effort and awareness while not having much in terms of a fundamental base in man-to-man coverage. His decline in shot-blocking is concerning, like the other areas of his game, but this is the one area where his physical gifts have actually allowed him to remain a well above average player despite his setbacks.

      From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2W9EVOTT8
      http://www.draftexpress.com

      Being able to block a lot of shots when you’re far and away the most athletic player on the court is not impressive when you have no grasp of defensive fundamentals. I don’t see Mike Woodson having the patience for a 6’9″ version of JaVale McGee who is in love with shooting jump shots. At least Josh Smith turned into a pretty smart defender–we don’t have five years to wait to see if Tony Mitchell ever gets it.

    51. Loathing

      Ok, let’s break this down. We’ve got these players going into the offseason (under contract)

      PG: Felton
      SG: Shump
      SF: ‘Melo/Novak
      PF: STAT
      C: Chandler/Camby

      FA’s:
      PG: Prigs
      SG: Smith, Q, White
      SF: Cope
      PF: Martin
      C: Barron

      The draft comes first (Weird if you ask me). Now, assuming we re-up on Prigs, Smith, Cope n’ Martin, we’ll have 11 guys on the roster. Assuming these eleven take up most of the alloted 240 game minutes, does it really matter who we get to fill in the other four filler spots? Or are those spots PURELY for insurance…And does anyone have the cap figures for next season? Like where the Knicks are with the seven in fold and what exceptions we currently possess?

    52. DRed

      lebron might be the best transition player in nba history. He’s ridiculous going to the rim at full speed

    53. ruruland

      DRed:
      lebron might be the best transition player in nba history. He’s ridiculous going to the rim at full speed

      No one ever mentions his touch and body control. Probably as good as his strength, size and speed.

      George said that Melo and Lebron were both really quick, but that Lebron had better body control. That’s what he said separated the two of them. Melo has pretty good body control, btw.

    54. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Do you want a project like that when there are lots of other players who have better projections?

      What is this nonsense about projections?

      Don’t you understand that it should be assumed that every player that comes into the league will play his career within reasonable proximity to how he played in college, and that anyone who doesn’t is a meaningless anomaly?

      Why can’t you fucking stay on script Jowles?

    55. Loathing

      Vinny L.:

      4) Use Mini MLE on C Timofey Mozgov

      It would be funny that we’d be essentially getting ‘Melo for Gallo n’ Chandler after recouping two of our own back. But I don’t forsee it happening.

    56. johnno

      Re: Patrick Ewing’s son’s tweet about how his father can’t get a chance to be a head coach — I’ve heard a lot of people on talk radio and in the media speculating as to why that is. Has anyone else noticed that he’s been an assistant coach in the league for ten years and the comments supporting him always come from fans or commentators? You never hear any GM or head coach for whom he has worked, any assistant coach with whom he has worked or any player whom he has coached saying things like, “Wow. Patrick Ewing would make a great head coach.” There is almost complete silence from that group. The most ringing endorsement that you will hear is that he has “paid his dues.” Perfect example — a few years ago, Dwight Howard was asked about the low post game that he had (allegedly) developed. He didn’t say that it came from working with Ewing for three years but, instead, he credited his development to one week with Hakeem Olajuwan. We can speculate all we want but isn’t it possible that word has gotten through the NBA grapevine that he is just not head coach material?

    57. massive

      ruruland: What is this nonsense about projections?

      Don’t you understand that it should be assumed that every player that comes into the league will play his career within reasonable proximity to how he played in college, and that anyone who doesn’t is a meaningless anomaly?

      Why can’t you fucking stay on script Jowles?

      THCJ’s projections are based in statistics. If the player doesn’t have good college statistics, he doesn’t project to be a good NBA player.

    58. d-mar

      DRed:
      What a fun half of basketball

      Agreed, that was playoff hoops at its finest.

      And Tony Parker’s spin move is an absolute thing of beauty

    59. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      massive: THCJ’s projections are based in statistics. If the player doesn’t have good college statistics, he doesn’t project to be a good NBA player.

      But lots of things don’t translate from college to the pros, as the Wages of Wins guys admit. They just say that it’s better to draft with PAWS40/WP48 in mind instead of rolling the dice on someone who played poorly in hopes that he will play better in the NBA.

      Sometimes there are players like Ty Lawson who pan out, and sometimes college duds like Eric Bledsoe turn into monsters after looking like a bust. That’s the way risk works.

    60. massive

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: But lots of things don’t translate from college to the pros, as the Wages of Wins guys admit. They just say that it’s better to draft with PAWS40/WP48 in mind instead of rolling the dice on someone who played poorly in hopes that he will play better in the NBA.

      Sometimes there are players like Ty Lawson who pan out, and sometimes college duds like Eric Bledsoe turn into monsters after looking like a bust. That’s the way risk works.

      http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/eric-bledsoe-1.html

      Eric Bledsoe was a freshman and he wasn’t exactly terrible in college. That .566 TS% is better than all of Tim Hardaway Jr’s 3 years in college, and he’s supposed to be known as a shooter.

      I agree that a lot of numbers may not translate, but I don’t believe anyone should take a player who was just a freak athlete or an inefficient scorer in hopes of their becoming efficient. I understand team situations may have called for certain things out of certain players in college, but I’m huge on the scoring efficiency of college prospects. If you can’t score efficiently against college level players, why should I believe you will be able to do it against pros?

      I just believe there are too many athletic guys in the draft with great numbers to take an athletic guy who average to terrible numbers or a guy who great numbers who can’t jump over their English textbook. I’m a film + numbers kinda guy.

    61. d-mar

      Did Dwayne Wade inject tiger blood into his knee? I guess rumors of his demise were premature, that was a performance for the ages.

    62. ruruland

      massive: THCJ’s projections are based in statistics. If the player doesn’t have good college statistics, he doesn’t project to be a good NBA player.

      Right.

    63. nicos

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: But lots of things don’t translate from college to the pros, as the Wages of Wins guys admit. They just say that it’s better to draft with PAWS40/WP48 in mind instead of rolling the dice on someone who played poorly in hopes that he will play better in the NBA.

      Sometimes there are players like Ty Lawson who pan out, and sometimes college duds like Eric Bledsoe turn into monsters after looking like a bust. That’s the way risk works.

      I do think teams can be a little less risk averse late in the first round given how much easier it is to fill out a bench now that the new CBA has squeezed out the middle class and so many vets are being forced to sign for the league minimum. Maybe you look a bit closer at a guy like Mitchell who has potential to be a legit starter as opposed to somebody like Withey who projects as a back-up. Of course that doesn’t mean picking guys who are bad at basketball just because they’re big and athletic, just that I think the scales have tipped a bit in favor of potential.

    64. jon abbey

      d-mar:
      Did Dwayne Wade inject tiger blood into his knee? I guess rumors of his demise were premature, that was a performance for the ages.

      definitely something going on, hopefully he’s got another game or two like that still in him (I am rooting for the Heat hard, although I have nothing but respect for this effort from San Antonio).

    65. jon abbey

      WoW likes guys who rebound well for their positions in college, because they think that will generally translate well in the pros. even if it does, the bigger issue is how much that actually matters in terms of winning basketball games, very much under question as we have learned more and more recently (the most recent example those David Lee comments by Zach Lowe the other day).

    66. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: But lots of things don’t translate from college to the pros, as the Wages of Wins guys admit. They just say that it’s better to draft with PAWS40/WP48 in mind instead of rolling the dice on someone who played poorly in hopes that he will play better in the NBA.

      Sometimes there are players like Ty Lawson who pan out, and sometimes college duds like Eric Bledsoe turn into monsters after looking like a bust. That’s the way risk works.

      Right, I already answered the question for you the way you just answered it.

      To paraphrase again:
      There are the guys you should draft — PAWS guys — and there are the guys you “roll the dice on”, which is another way of saying, shot in the dark, hope you get lucky. If it’s not in the box score, it’s not useful data. That is what your argument boils down to EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME.

    67. johnno

      massive: I don’t believe anyone should take a player who was just a freak athlete or an inefficient scorer in hopes of their becoming efficient.

      Shumpert? Kawhi Leaonard?

    68. massive

      johnno: Shumpert?Kawhi Leaonard?

      That’s the thing. Those two weren’t drafted to be scorers. Their roles have changed dramatically from college to the pros. Remember how much better Shumpert got after we moved him off the ball? And Kawhi Leonard has played off the ball his entire career. Role (and more importantly, usage) changes can have dramatic effects on a player’s scoring efficiency.

      Tim Hardaway Jr, however, will be drafted to play the exact same role he played in college for 3 years. I’d stay away from his average scoring efficiency if all he can provide at this level is scoring.

    69. massive

      Well, a deeper look at Hardaway Jr’s numbers tells me his TS% is average because he shot 70% from the line. I think he gets that up into the mid to high 80s as a pro, which should shoot his TS up into the 590s or 600s.

    70. Frank

      flossy: Shumpert became efficient?Since when?

      In the last 1000 minutes played this season, Shump had a TS of 55.8 on a usage of 16. I think that’s better than pretty much anyone would have predicted at the start of the year when he was still on crutches. Over those minutes he shot 43.1% from 3 point range (on 130 attempts which equates to a relatively high volume 4.6 3PA/36), and shot 57.9% (!!!) from the corner 3. His finishing #s at the rim were still weak, which I think can be blamed at least partially on him still recovering from injury for much of that time period.

      Unless he suddenly starts taking a lot more inefficient shots (ie. pullup midrange shots – which he seemed to be doing more of in the playoffs), I don’t think it’d be a surprise for him to have TS in the high 50s next year.

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