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Friday, August 22, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jun 06 2013)

  • [New York Times] Five Things to Watch in the NBA Finals (Thu, 06 Jun 2013 07:12:45 GMT)
    And then there were two.    

  • [New York Times] Allen Now 1 Round Away From a Miami Ring (Thu, 06 Jun 2013 07:09:51 GMT)
    This is why Ray Allen came to Miami.    

  • [New York Times] In Finals’ Clash of Styles, Only Certainty Is a Worthy Champion (Thu, 06 Jun 2013 00:55:53 GMT)
    The operational approaches and roster strategies of the Heat and the Spurs should make for a compelling matchup in an N.B.A. finals that has something for everyone.    

  • 102 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jun 06 2013)

    1. Hubert

      Just catching up on yesterday’s Nate Debate.

      Here’s my $0.02 in a nutshell:

      You can never play Nate Robinson and JR Smith together because that is too much stupid on the court at one time. The amount of stupid those two possess outweighs any and all positive things they might bring to the offense.

      Stupid did us in vs Indiana. It gave them about 8-10 points a game and swung the series in their favor. We need less stupid, not more.

    2. Hubert

      Also:

      Signing Nate most likely means losing Pablo, and the net stupid of that switch is off the charts.

    3. Frank

      I wonder if there’s any way in the world we could convince Minny to take Novak in exchange for JJ Barea. Barea’s not great, but he’s a good PNR PG who would be a nice backup if Prigs decides to leave. And Minny has FOUR PGs who need playing time on their team– Rubio, Ridnour, Shved, and Barea. And they were the worst 3 point shooting team in the league last year.

    4. johnno

      I don’t follow college basketball at all, so I’ve never even heard of a lot of the guys who are likely to be available at #24. I’ve read a bunch of scouting reports on draftexpress.com. Am I way off base here or is Jeff Withey a young Tyson Chandler?

    5. flossy

      johnno:
      I don’t follow college basketball at all, so I’ve never even heard of a lot of the guys who are likely to be available at #24.I’ve read a bunch of scouting reports on draftexpress.com.Am I way off base here or is Jeff Withey a young Tyson Chandler?

      Withey’s the guy I want, because he seems about as NBA-ready as anyone you can pick toward the end of the first round and his skill set is similar to Chandler (though he reminds me a bit more of Camby actually), leading me to believe he could actually play 15-18 mpg as a true back-up center in year 1.

      Physically: Great height, great wingspan, jumps high and quick. Needs to add weight (and may not be able to do that–he’s already 23) and not the quickest laterally.

      Offensively: He’s a pure finisher like Chandler–good hands, long arms, jumps high, finishes PnRs well, catches lobs and that’s it. No jumper, no post game. Not an amazing offensive rebounder/doesn’t crash the glass hard.

      Defensively: An elite shot blocker and post defender, protects the rim, doesn’t bite on pump fakes. Also doesn’t love to come out of the paint and is not great at defending the PnR, so there is some room for improvement. Good defensive rebounder.

      Intangibles: 4 year player from a good program. Seems like an upstanding citizen.

      If he’s on the board when we pick, we MUST select him. Having a real back-up for Tyson would do wonders for Chandler’s defense and in turn improve our whole team’s performance on that end. He’ll never be an all-star (or even necessarily a starter) but if he can protect the rim, rebound and be a thread as the PnR dive man, there is a place for him on this team.

    6. massive

      Withey is less athletic version of Tyson Chandler for sure. I’m not sure he’ll ever be the rebounder or defender that Tyson is/was, but he’ll probably be less of a liability on offense. He’s a fit for this team.

    7. Frank

      I’d be very happy with either Withey or Dieng at that pick. These guys were elite defenders on elite defenses, and neither was particularly foul-prone despite all those blocks. And I read somewhere that neither was really known to be a block-chaser — meaning they don’t get themselves way out of position chasing some mid-range jump shooter.

      Meanwhile — George Karl wins COY and then gets fired. Beautiful. Guess someone out there thinks perhaps he gets some of the blame for all those 1st round exits — and that it’s not all Melo’s fault. I posted this a month ago, but worth a read re: Karl and all those regular season wins and first round exits:

      http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/2013/05/07/death-taxes-and-first-round-losses/

    8. Frank

      Denver’s really doing some fascinating stuff – and I don’t necessarily mean that as a dig. They literally just fired the just-named Coach and Exec of the Year. That has to be the first time that’s ever happened in any sport.

      Will be very interesting to see what Denver does next with a team that won almost 60 games this year and then lost their leading scorer just prior to the playoffs.

    9. Hubert

      That Kroenke is a weird dude.

      It doesn’t seem like they fired Karl for all the reasons you’d think he would be fired for.

    10. thenamestsam

      Frank:
      Denver’s really doing some fascinating stuff – and I don’t necessarily mean that as a dig.They literally just fired the just-named Coach and Exec of the Year.That has to be the first time that’s ever happened in any sport.

      Majiri was in no way fired. His contract was expiring and they made him multiple offers to keep him around. But Toronto won out for multiple reasons – it’s where he got his start, new challenge, willing to be a tax team, and presumably, a higher salary.

      On Withey, I see a lot of Aaron Gray there, and I don’t mean that in a complimentary way. His athleticism and defense look fine in the college game, but put him on an NBA floor and he’s going to look pretty outmatched. He’s going to be a solid post defender (mostly an irrelevant NBA skill) and a decent shot blocker just because of his height but I don’t think he has the athleticism and quickness to really impact games as a dive man or as a defender in the pick and roll. Just my 2 cents.

    11. d-mar

      Well, THCJ for one will be very happy about the Karl departure, I believe the coach was the only thing standing between the Nuggets and an NBA championship this season

    12. Hubert

      d-mar:
      I believe the coach was the only thing standing between the Nuggets and an NBA championship this season

      Not LeBron?

    13. Hubert

      Speaking of championships, I’m really excited for this series. I feel it has the potential to be basketball porn. There is so much greatness in this series it’s ridiculous. Two amazing coaches, the best player in the world, the defending champs against 4 time champs, Tim Duncan in the Finals again, Tony Parker playing PG about as well as the position can be played, a lot of pressure on Bosh and Wade…there is just so much to look forward to watching.

      I feel like there are some massive chinks in the Miami armor. It seems like the trust eroded a bit between LeBron and his other 2 stars. This series actually reminds me a lot of the 2004 Finals between the Lakers and Pistons. One team is loaded with stars but there is some friction between them and they don’t seem to be clicking. The other team is just a smooth, well-oiled machine.

      I’m leaning towards Spurs in 5. But that’s based on what I just saw in the Pacers series. But I’m not sure if Miami is as vulnerable as they seemed or if Indiana is just really great at making teams look bad (they sure made us look awful). If Dwyane Wade looks rejuvenated and it turns out Chris Bosh was just having a hard time with Hibbert, I’ll feel silly for liking the Spurs. But I just think it’s going to be a team vs one man.

    14. thenamestsam

      I’m really excited as well. The one thing I’ll say is that I think people tend to overreact to the previous series a little too much. It’s the same reason a lot of people were picking Memphis over San Antonio, because San Antonio was less than convincing against Golden State and Memphis was very impressive against the Thunder. San Antonio swept Memphis but they played 2 OT games and a third close game. If just a few things break against the Spurs that easily could have been a much longer series and I think people’s perceptions of this matchup would be greatly altered.

      My gut keeps telling me the Spurs will win it but the two things I can’t get away from are how dominant the Heat have looked all season when ever there backs were against the wall (in clutch situations in the regular season and in every big game so far in these playoffs) and how much OKC’s athleticism was able to overwhelm San Antonio down the stretch of their series last year.

    15. Douglas

      Hubert:

      I heard it was because Karl wanted a contract extension and Kroenke didn’t want to give it to him. Instead of going through a year of awkwardness they cut him loose.

    16. Hubert

      thenamestsam:

      My gut keeps telling me the Spurs will win it but the two things I can’t get away from are how dominant the Heat have looked all season when ever there backs were against the wall

      That’s another thing: I have such a hard time imagining LeBron getting closed out. I think the days of him checking out mentally like against Boston in ’10 or Dallas in ’11 are gone.

    17. DS

      Hubert: That’s another thing: I have such a hard time imagining LeBron getting closed out.I think the days of him checking out mentally like against Boston in ’10 or Dallas in ’11 are gone.

      I could imagine Splitter and Duncan creating some of the same size match ups that Indy created. S.A. obviously has better back court players and depth than Indy… on the other hand, Boston last season was very difficult for the Heat and then Miami steamrolled OKC so who knows?

    18. thenamestsam

      DS: I could imagine Splitter and Duncan creating some of the same size match ups that Indy created.S.A. obviously has better back court players and depth than Indy… on the other hand, Boston last season was very difficult for the Heat and then Miami steamrolled OKC so who knows?

      The big difference I think is that as the article Jon posted this morning pointed out San Antonio really isn’t a good rebounding team which is one of the biggest ways that Indiana’s size hurt Miami. The offensive rebounds not only led to easy points obviously but they also hurt Miami a lot because their defense is super reliant on high energy which gets much harder to sustain when you’re consistently defending extra possession after extra possession. San Antonio consistently abandons offensive rebounds in favor of getting back on defense.

      And they’re not really a post up team like Indy is either, certainly it’s not their preferred stuff on offense. When Miami is small and they’re big are they really going to want to consistently feed a Diaw-Battier, Bonner-Battier or even Splitter-Battier matchup? I’m not so sure. For Indy, getting West-Battier is basically a dream posession for them on offense. Trying to force feed Splitter in the post on Battier is just taking San Antonio away from what they do best.

      I really don’t think the size advantage is going to be decisive.

    19. d-mar

      As much of a complete pussy Bosh was in the Indy series, I think he might be more effective in the Finals not having to deal with Hibbert.

      Maybe he can let loose with a few primal screams after scoring a key bucket in the 1st quarter.

    20. Juany8

      Here’s what San Antonio has going for them against Miami: they already run the perfect offense to score on Miami with. They’ll spread the floor while still having an elite big defensive big man. They’ll be able to punish Miami’s aggressive style of defense because they move the ball so well and have multiple players that can play well off the dribble. Miami has no real answer for tony Parker either. On the other hand, San Antonio won’t punish Miami on the boards (although they might make it more of a focus) and they won’t be able to slow down maimi as well as Indiana. Should be a fun, high scoring series

    21. ruruland

      Juany8:
      Here’s what San Antonio has going for them against Miami: they already run the perfect offense to score on Miami with. They’ll spread the floor while still having an elite big defensive big man. They’ll be able to punish Miami’s aggressive style of defense because they move the ball so well and have multiple players that can play well off the dribble. Miami has no real answer for tony Parker either. On the other hand, San Antonio won’t punish Miami on the boards (although they might make it more of a focus) and they won’t be able to slow down maimi as well as Indiana. Should be a fun, high scoring series

      Really has a chance to be one of the better Finals the last 15 years.

    22. Juany8

      ruruland: Really has a chance to be one of the better Finals the last 15 years.

      Don’t think it will be better than the Celtics-Lakers rematch (two very underrated cores IMO) a few years ago, I actually think it will be more like last year’s Finals. An entertaining series full of close games where 1 team just keeps pulling away at the end, even through sheer luck. Look for a series where the one team that gets not from 3 wins it. Basically what happened last year with Harden falling apart and Battier shooting about a million percent from 3.

    23. DRed

      San Antonio isn’t a great offensive rebounding team, but they’re also much, much better on offense than Indiana. If Wade is pretty healthy the Heat should win, but if he’s only like 65% they’re going to be in serious trouble. Either way it’s a fascinating match up.

    24. stratomatic

      jon abbey:
      an awesome stat for Berri-heads to suck on from Chris Herring today:

      “This season in the NBA, the correlation between a team’s rebounding rate and its winning percentage was .438 (with 0 being no correlation and 1.0 being a perfect one). That’s a steep drop from the .744 mark 20 seasons ago, according to Stats. ”

      http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324798904578527593005701014.html

      I don’t think the question is whether rebounding is more or less important overall but whether each rebound has the same value now as it did before.

      Some teams may be sacrificing rebounds to get higher efficiency shots, prevent easy transition baskets, reduce TOs etc…

      So perhaps the net of that strategy produces better overall results without changing the value of a rebound.

      D’Antoni was well know for sacrificing defensive rebounds by leaking players out early trying to get easy baskets in transition. He gave up an occasional extra defensive rebound and easy basket, but he felt he got more than enough extra easy baskets to make up for it. That was something his critics never understood about his defense. He was WILLING to give an extra 4 points to get 5. But the critics just talked about the 4 because they didn’t understand how and why he got the 5.

      The thing is, a rebound is still a possession and a possession is still worth 1 point. So it’s still just a matter of apportioning that value.

    25. stratomatic

      IMO, the Heat deserve to be a very mild favorite because of home court, but a healthy Spur team is a hair better than the Heat. The Spurs played in the much tougher conference and had several key players miss a lot of games or play sub par during the season. Pop also gave away a few games by resting players. With the rest, they should be primed, but it’s going to be tough to beat the Heat in Miami and hold serve in SA. The Spurs are the right team to try it.

    26. JK47

      The Spurs aren’t a great OFFENSIVE rebounding team, but they do a fine job cleaning the defensive glass– 3rd in the NBA. They’re also very good at eFG% prevention and defensive FT/FGA, so when you add it all up they’re the #3 defense in the NBA. They play smart, sound, well-coached defense.

      This is a very evenly matched series– #2 vs #3 in terms of regular season SRS, and the #2 offense/#9 defense vs the #7 offense/#3 defense. I’ll say Miami in 7, but it doesn’t get much more evenly matched than this.

    27. stratomatic

      >#2 vs #3 in terms of regular season SRS<

      If you adjust for schedule the Spurs look better because they were out west. They also had more injuries and rest games than the Heat. In fact, if you adjust for schedule and injuries, the Spurs were probably the best team in the NBA at 100%. OKC was very healthy all year until Westbrook went down.

    28. ruruland

      stratomatic:

      The thing is, a rebound is still a possession and a possession is still worth 1 point.So it’s still just a matter of apportioning that value.

      Uh, the whole point is the exact opposite of what you’re saying, offensive rebounds = 1 point. it’s not apportioning the value from an offensive rebound = 1 point any more than it’s apportioning value from a 3 pt shot is worth = whatever.

      The Spurs rebounding is poor in part because of sacrificing for 3-pt shooting, as Miami does, but largely because of transition defense — that’s what will likely decide the series.

      Strato and company do not consider that part of the equation, among others.

    29. ruruland

      stratomatic:
      >#2 vs #3 in terms of regular season SRS<

      If you adjust for schedule the Spurs look better because they were out west.They also had more injuries and rest games than the Heat. In fact, if you adjust for schedule and injuries, the Spurs were probably the best team in the NBA at 100%.OKC was very healthy all year until Westbrook went down.

      Adjusting for schedule is a pretty imperfect measurement of season success for a variety of reasons.

    30. Juany8

      I think what’s missed when talking about rebounds is that there is an opportunity cost involved in failure that is never subtracted from a player’s value. Just like you can waste offensive possessions, you can also waste defensive possessions by not getting back properly in an attempt to get offensive rebounds, or by chasing blocked shots, leading to easy opportunities if you fail.

      Simply put, most advanced systems out there are using the equivalent of points per 36 minutes to determine how good a player is at rebounding or passing or defense. Just like putting up 20 points is no guarantee that you actually helped your team on offense, 10 rebounds doesn’t guarantee that you had a positive impact on your team’s rebounding. Rebounding percentage is a little bit better, but it is completely dependent on your teammates and opponents.

    31. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: Simply put, most advanced systems out there are using the equivalent of points per 36 minutes to determine how good a player is at rebounding or passing or defense. Just like putting up 20 points is no guarantee that you actually helped your team on offense, 10 rebounds doesn’t guarantee that you had a positive impact on your team’s rebounding. Rebounding percentage is a little bit better, but it is completely dependent on your teammates and opponents.

      But using a huge number of your team’s scoring possessions at low efficiency (Carmelo Anthony’s “all-time worst” game against Boston comes to mind) is certainly a loss for your team. You’re saying that you can’t extrapolate information about a player’s effectiveness when he only takes this many shots or that his offensive rebounds contain limited information, and to a certain extent that’s plausible, but this conversely implies that Carmelo Anthony might have been helping his team in that awful game, or that they would have lost by more had he not shot so much. Skepticism isn’t knowledge.

    32. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: But using a huge number of your team’s scoring possessions at low efficiency (Carmelo Anthony’s “all-time worst” game against Boston comes to mind) is certainly a loss for your team. You’re saying that you can’t extrapolate information about a player’s effectiveness when he only takes this many shots or that his offensive rebounds contain limited information, and to a certain extent that’s plausible, but this conversely implies that Carmelo Anthony might have been helping his team in that awful game, or that they would have lost by more had he not shot so much. Skepticism isn’t knowledge.

      Uhhh…. What? Who the hell made that argument? I wasn’t saying anything about Carmelo Anthony, and for my money I’d take that Melo game over several Lebron had in that Dallas finals series. But anyways, my post had nothing to do with scoring, I was just pointing out that calling points per 36 a bad stat for evaluating scoring and then using rebounds per 36 minutes to evaluate rebounding is completely inconsistent. It is possible to chase points to the detriment of your team and it is possible to chase rebounds to the detriment of your team. If a player is doing negative actions to get more rebounds, his rebounds are worth less than a player getting the same amount but doing it within the team concept. Same with blocks, assists, steals, etc.

    33. DRed

      Juany8: Uhhh…. What? Who the hell made that argument? I wasn’t saying anything about Carmelo Anthony, and for my money I’d take that Melo game over several Lebron had in that Dallas finals series. But anyways, my post had nothing to do with scoring, I was just pointing out that calling points per 36 a bad stat for evaluating scoring and then using rebounds per 36 minutes to evaluate rebounding is completely inconsistent. It is possible to chase points to the detriment of your team and it is possible to chase rebounds to the detriment of your team. If a player is doing negative actions to get more rebounds, his rebounds are worth less than a player getting the same amount but doing it within the team concept. Same with blocks, assists, steals, etc.

      I had a point to make, but the Spurs offense has totally thrown me off. They’re ridiculously fun to watch when they’re clicking.

    34. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      It is pretty funny to think that T-Mac might soon have a ring.

      I hope he actually gets some playing time. I’ll go crazy if he actually helps the Spurs win this series. I loved tmac back in the day

    35. Brian Cronin

      Oh yeah, I liked T-Mac a lot. I’m pleased for him. It’s weird that he’s only 34.

    36. DRed

      Brian Cronin:
      Oh yeah, I liked T-Mac a lot. I’m pleased for him. It’s weird that he’s only 34.

      He broke down so young, but he was a beast for a few years. It would be nice if he could retire as a proven winner.

    37. d-mar

      The way Miami is defending the pick and roll, Duncan is going to get a ton of open shots. He’s going to have to knock some of them down for the Spurs to be successful.

    38. Juany8

      d-mar:
      The way Miami is defending the pick and roll, Duncan is going to get a ton of open shots. He’s going to have to knock some of them down for the Spurs to be successful.

      Duncan has always been somewhat inconsistent from that range, definitely had a pretty nightmarish first quarter lol. Really fun game so far, these teams won’t be able to consistently defend each other all series

    39. ruruland

      What do you guys think of Pierre Jackson? Covered him a bit, think he could be a big-time sleeper. Won the NIT, loves the Garden. Three inches taller and he’s a top 15 pick.

    40. ruruland

      Juany8:
      I think what’s missed when talking about rebounds is that there is an opportunity cost involved in failure that is never subtracted from a player’s value. Just like you can waste offensive possessions, you can also waste defensive possessions by not getting back properly in an attempt to get offensive rebounds, or by chasing blocked shots, leading to easy opportunities if you fail.

      Simply put, most advanced systems out there are using the equivalent of points per 36 minutes to determine how good a player is at rebounding or passing or defense. Just like putting up 20 points is no guarantee that you actually helped your team on offense, 10 rebounds doesn’t guarantee that you had a positive impact on your team’s rebounding. Rebounding percentage is a little bit better, but it is completely dependent on your teammates and opponents.

      Correct

    41. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: But using a huge number of your team’s scoring possessions at low efficiency (Carmelo Anthony’s “all-time worst” game against Boston comes to mind) is certainly a loss for your team. You’re saying that you can’t extrapolate information about a player’s effectiveness when he only takes this many shots or that his offensive rebounds contain limited information, and to a certain extent that’s plausible, but this conversely implies that Carmelo Anthony might have been helping his team in that awful game, or that they would have lost by more had he not shot so much. Skepticism isn’t knowledge.

      It would only conversely imply (something) if we knew about his teammates and how they perform in certain situations and contexts, and what situations would LIKELY exist if Anthony was not on the court

      We can actually make quality extrapolations given our ever-growing knowledge of shots and offense, the fundamental difference between the critical thinkers, i.e., not you, and you is that, for example, we can deduce that Tyson Chandler cannot increase his usage in a substantive way without decreasing his efficiency given that an increase in his usage would rely on a fundamental shift in shot distribution. And unless Tyson knocks down eblow jumpers at 65 percent, his efficiency goes down to the level of many “ordinary” centers and power forwards.

      I made quite a few extrapolations before the season and most of them were correct. I did that using publicly available tools like Synergy.

      BTW, Anthony had no such “all-time worst game,” as much as you’d like that to be the case.

      Why don’t we talk about how the Knicks just lost the second best point guard in the NBA to retirement?

    42. d-mar

      It really is a beautiful thing to watch the Spurs execute on offense.

      And it’s painful listening to the Miami PA guy, has to be the most annoying in all of basketball.

    43. Brian Cronin

      That was a terrible idea by Spoelstra. Five guys on the court. Four of them you’d like to see shoot a three. So they run a play designed to have the fifth guy taking a three from nearly 24 feet.

    44. ruruland

      DRed:
      Lebron has 17 rebounds.Chris Bosh has 4.That’s humiliating.

      Some of that is Lebron getting the red carpet from teammates for boards because he’ll initiate transition.

      It’ll be interesting to see what happens to Knicks d-boarding when Kidd isn’t on floor next season.

      Kidd adds value there, but I suspect some Knicks will suddenly become “better” rebounders.

    45. Brian Cronin

      And VG slips in a dig at Dwight Howard. Awesome.

      That was hilarious. And true. Routine doesn’t matter when your form sucks.

    46. ruruland

      DRed:
      And VG slips in a dig at Dwight Howard. Awesome.

      He is the best. For as much as I’d love him to coach the Knicks, I’d be torn.

    47. Brian Cronin

      What an amazing game-winner by Parker! Or is it going to be waived off?!? I don’t see how you can rule that definitively. It has to count.

    48. Brian Cronin

      And it DOES count! Wow, what an amazing game-winner! I mean, don’t get me wrong, I think he probably should have passed it earlier than that, but still, wow!

    49. DRed

      Very entertaining game. Wade actually showed up, but Bosh was a total no show. Lebron wound up with 18 boards. Even if his teammates let him get some of them, nobody else on the Heat had more than 5. That’s sorry. When your center goes 6-16 with 5 rebounds, it’s tough to win, even when the best player alive drops a triple double. The big 3 is such a joke. Bosh doesn’t even belong in the conversation with Wade and Lebron.

    50. BigBlueAL

      Both teams shot bad from 3pt range too, the Spurs especially seemed to miss a bunch of wide open 3pters.

    51. ruruland

      DRed:
      Very entertaining game.Wade actually showed up, but Bosh was a total no show.Lebron wound up with 18 boards.Even if his teammates let him get some of them, nobody else on the Heat had more than 5.That’s sorry.When your center goes 6-16 with 5 rebounds, it’s tough to win, even when the best player alive drops a triple double.The big 3 is such a joke.Bosh doesn’t even belong in the conversation with Wade and Lebron.

      How does Wade belong in the conversation?

      He plays half the game on defense and lives on leak-outs…

    52. mr.JayP

      I would love to see the Knicks play like the spurs. At no point in this game were they worried. That to me is impressive.

    53. maxwell_3g

      ruruland:
      (Quote)

      17

      ruru. if your big arguments for drafting a pg out of Baylor are that “he loves the garden” and he “won the NIT” based on a few games hes played there in his life, I’m skeptical.

      but honeslty, I think he might be worth looking at in the 2nd round if we could acquire a pick. I certainly prefer him to Wolters.

    54. maxwell_3g

      ruruland: He is the best. For as much as I’d love him to coach the Knicks, I’d be torn.

      I agree. i’d love him on the bench, but would also want him to commentate at least twice a week

    55. DRed

      ruruland: How does Wade belong in the conversation?

      He plays half the game on defense and lives on leak-outs…

      He’s obviously playing hurt, and he was decent tonight. All things considered, against a really good defense, that’s about as much as Miami could expect out of him. For an alleged superstar, Bosh was pathetic.

    56. maxwell_3g

      massive:
      Tony Parker. Why don’t we have a guy like that on our team?

      I must confess. when we were talking about trying to trade for parker about 3-4 years ago, I was completely against it. oh well

    57. massive

      ruruland: How does Wade belong in the conversation?

      He plays half the game on defense and lives on leak-outs…

      I thought they lost because they tried to get Wade going/let him take over. LeBron differed to Wade a lot from what I saw. There’s a reason LeBron only shot 4 free throws tonight; he wasn’t playing aggressive enough.

    58. Kikuchiyo

      Anyone else notice how much Parker’s last shot looked like Allan Houston’s shot that finished Miami in ’99? Delicious.

    59. d-mar

      Jalen Rose hit the nail on the head – there’s LeBron, Durant and then Parker, and I might even put Parker ahead of Durant as well as he’s performed in the playoffs.

      And that spin move he made on Cole was just a thing of beauty

    60. ruruland

      maxwell_3g: ruru.if your big arguments for drafting a pg out of Baylor are that “he loves the garden” and he “won the NIT” based on a few games hes played there in his life, I’m skeptical.

      but honeslty, I think he might be worth looking at in the 2nd round if we could acquire a pick.I certainly prefer him to Wolters.

      Obviously that’s not my argument. I just had a chance to talk to him today, and asked him about playing for the Knicks.

      He’s a freak athlete, great handle, great shot-maker, underrated passer, lives in the lane, and was one of the 10 best college players last year. He’s an elite competitor with a chip on his shoulder.

      A few inches taller and he’d be closing in on the lottery. I was simply asking if anyone was familiar with him and what they thought.

      Given how narratives slowly trail reality, in 3-4 years Jackson might be a top 15 pick given the changes in the NBA game.

    61. ruruland

      DRed: He’s obviously playing hurt, and he was decent tonight.All things considered, against a really good defense, that’s about as much as Miami could expect out of him.For an alleged superstar, Bosh was pathetic.

      Wade has been an injured the last two years — many saw that coming. I don’t think he resembles the guy he was 4-5 years ago. He’s living high off the hog w/lebron right now, and as the team’s top option I think his numbers would drop substantially.

    62. DRed

      Jackson is 5’10″. Three inches taller and he’s a top 15 pick, but he’s not 3 inches taller. Size does matter. Who besides Nate Robinson and Isiah Thomas are under 6’0″ right now? Best case scenario for someone that short is a being a good rotation player. Wolters has some question marks because of the competition he played against, but if came down to the two of them I’d take Wolters every time because he’s got legit NBA size.

    63. ruruland

      DRed:
      Jackson is 5’10?.Three inches taller and he’s a top 15 pick, but he’s not 3 inches taller.Size does matter.Who besides Nate Robinson and Isiah Thomas are under 6’0? right now?Best case scenario for someone that short is a being a good rotation player. Wolters has some question marks because of the competition he played against, but if came down to the two of them I’d take Wolters every time because he’s got legit NBA size.

      Every time Jackson gets matched up against NBA size two guards he’s dominated.

      Chad Ford said he was the best player in the New Jersey workouts.

      I hear your point, and that’s the common argument against him, but how often do we see teams get an advantage by using smaller match-ups?

      The NBA is going smaller, everyone sees that.

      Now a really talented player should be looked at as a really talented player.

    64. DRed

      ruruland: Wade has been an injured the last two years— many saw that coming. I don’t think he resembles the guy he was 4-5 years ago. He’s living high off the hog w/lebron right now, and as the team’s top option I think his numbers would drop substantially.

      Agreed. Like I said, he played well considering his injury and the defense he’s going up against.

    65. DRed

      ruruland: Every time Jackson gets matched up against NBA size two guards he’s dominated.

      Chad Ford said he was the best player in the New Jersey workouts.

      I hear your point, and that’s the common argument against him, but how often do we see teams get an advantage by using smaller match-ups?

      The NBA is going smaller, everyone sees that.

      Now a really talented player should be looked at as a really talented player.

      I’m all for finding guys overlooked because they don’t hit a certain ideal size, but there are literally 2 guys in the NBA his height, and neither one is particularly good. At a certain point size a legitimate factor, and the kid is just too short. Again, I think the kid has a chance to be a solid NBA player, and with our draft position that’s a good return. A team taking him in the second round would be getting a steal. I wouldn’t be devastated if we drafted him. But there’s not much upside there.

      Chad Ford says a lot of shit. And working out in New Jersey isn’t playing in the NBA.

    66. yellowboy90

      So what are people’s 2nd round PG board look like?

      Green

      Wolters

      Jackson

      Canaan

    67. yellowboy90

      DRed: I’m all for finding guys overlooked because they don’t hit a certain ideal size, but there are literally 2 guys in the NBA his height, and neither one is particularly good.At a certain point size a legitimate factor, and the kid is just too short.Again, I think the kid has a chance to be a solid NBA player, and with our draft position that’s a good return.A team taking him in the second round would be getting a steal.I wouldn’t be devastated if we drafted him.But there’s not much upside there.

      Chad Ford says a lot of shit.And working out in New Jersey isn’t playing in the NBA.

      I disagree about them not being good. I think Thomas is a pretty good back up on offense. His per 36 are pretty good with a nice TS for a back up.

      I’d take Thomas as a back up.

    68. JK47

      San Antonio had a scant four turnovers in the whole game. That’s a pretty amazing performance from a team that does not typically protect the ball that well.

      Also, great stuff from Kawhi Leonard… I love that guy’s game.

    69. BigBlueAL

      DRed:
      Jackson is 5’10?.Three inches taller and he’s a top 15 pick, but he’s not 3 inches taller.Size does matter.Who besides Nate Robinson and Isiah Thomas are under 6’0? right now?Best case scenario for someone that short is a being a good rotation player. Wolters has some question marks because of the competition he played against, but if came down to the two of them I’d take Wolters every time because he’s got legit NBA size.

      How about Isaiah Canaan??

    70. Brian Cronin

      Also, great stuff from Kawhi Leonard… I love that guy’s game.

      It still amazes me how he wasn’t at the very least a top ten pick.

    71. massive

      Brian Cronin: It still amazes me how he wasn’t at the very least a top ten pick.

      He was projected to have gone to the Wizards, but I don’t think he would have been as successful without the Spurs’ system. A lottery team would have asked him to do too much and he would have been worse off for it.

    72. nicos

      Brian Cronin: It still amazes me how he wasn’t at the very least a top ten pick.

      The post-lottery picks in that draft would make a pretty terrific team- Leonard, Faried, Shump, Vucevic, Chandler Parsons, Jimmy Butler, Tobias Harris, and both Jackson and Cole have shown signs during this post-season. If you re-held that draft, Irving would still go first but at least half of the lottery would change.

    73. DRed

      nicos: The post-lottery picks in that draft would make a pretty terrific team- Leonard, Faried, Shump, Vucevic, Chandler Parsons, Jimmy Butler, Tobias Harris, and both Jackson and Cole have shown signs during this post-season.If you re-held that draft, Irving would still go first but at least half of the lottery would change.

      And he’s only 21, which is nuts.

    74. nicos

      ruruland: Some of that is Lebrongetting the red carpet from teammates for boards because he’ll initiate transition.

      It’ll be interesting to see what happens to Knicks d-boarding when Kidd isn’t on floor next season.

      Kidd adds value there, but I suspect some Knicks will suddenly become “better” rebounders.

      JR had the same rebound rate as Kidd this year and Shumpert led the Knicks in defensive rebounding % in the playoffs. As you know a lot of this was because Melo was often face-guarding bigger guys and the Knicks relied on the twos/threes coming in a grabbing loose balls. Kidd was really good at this but if Shump makes a concerted effort to get to the boards as he did in the playoffs the Knicks shouldn’t miss Kidd’s rebounding too much.

    75. Brian Cronin

      He was projected to have gone to the Wizards, but I don’t think he would have been as successful without the Spurs’ system. A lottery team would have asked him to do too much and he would have been worse off for it.

      While he clearly benefited from where he ended up (look at Tony Parker for another great example of a guy who was blessed with a good system – can you imagine what a team like the Kings would have done to Parker?), I think Leonard would have been a very good player wherever he ended up. Heck, if Indiana did not have both Granger and George on their team, they would never have made the George Hill trade (that’s not even speculation on my part – they have said as much).

    76. massive

      I know there’s a lot of talk about how this was our best chance to win, but I think that the Eastern Conference is now opening up with the decline of Dwyane Wade. If we can get a healthy Amar’e Stoudemire to play 2,000 or so minutes and keep Melo healthy (his health/conditioning is the only reason he isn’t a KD level player) along with a super Shump, we can probably win 60 games. We won 54 without much contribution from Stat/Shump and Melo was playing through a knee injury for 3 months.

      Now the loss of Jason Kidd cannot be understated. He was great for us in the regular season, and I hope we can replace his value. But if we get a healthy Knicks team, there is a real chance we’re right back where we were this season.

    77. Juany8

      massive:
      I know there’s a lot of talk about how this was our best chance to win, but I think that the Eastern Conference is now opening up with the decline of Dwyane Wade. If we can get a healthy Amar’e Stoudemire to play 2,000 or so minutes and keep Melo healthy (his health/conditioning is the only reason he isn’t a KD level player) along with a super Shump, we can probably win 60 games. We won 54 without much contribution from Stat/Shump and Melo was playing through a knee injury for 3 months.

      Now the loss of Jason Kidd cannot be understated. He was great for us in the regular season, and I hope we can replace his value. But if we get a healthy Knicks team, there is a real chance we’re right back where we were this season.

      I think 60 is a stretch considering only 2 teams typically get there per year and chandler and Melo are simply more injury prone than Durant and Lebron, while not having the amazing discipline of a Chicago or San Antonio. On the other hand, I do think somewhere in the mid 50′s is very reasonable for this team to get, which means they’ll get home court and be a top 4 seed in a suddenly deeper East once Rose comes back. A healthy Knicks team still has some unique matchup advantages against Miami in that they can play a dominant defender at the 5 to slow down their rim attack, and they have perfect spacing which Miami simply can’t guard. Add in that the Knicks don’t turn the ball over and a healthy Knicks squad has a chance against anyone.

      I don’t mind the loss of Kidd as much as I thought I would since prigs has become such a dependable option in that role. Knicks do need a backup guard, preferably a Guy who can shoot well spotting up and will be solid defensively. I think grunwald can do a nice job of filling out th roster, but chandler actuall needs to show up healhy to a playoff series before the Knicks hav a chance

    78. Brian Cronin

      but chandler actually needs to show up healthy to a playoff series before the Knicks have a chance

      Agreed, which makes the regular season feel almost kind of meaningless, ya know?

      “Oh wow, this is awesome! Well, until Chandler gets hurt right before the playoffs and the Knicks have no chance once again.” I know two years is not exactly a pattern and he was healthy three years ago, but damn, it feels like such a tease.

      Speaking of teases, I sure hope Prigs doesn’t leave. It is a bit worrisome to try to pick up a back-up guard and re-sign Prigs and Cope all with just the vet minimum and the mini-MLE to work with.

      I suppose Grunwald could always pull off one of his patented “non-guaranteed contract to another team for a decent player who another team needs to cut for cap reasons”. Have we established yet whether Grunwald signed Earl Barron or Q-Rich to two-year deals with the second year non-guaranteed?

    79. johnno

      massive: LeBron differed to Wade a lot

      LeBron certainly did “differ” to Wade last night. From what I’ve seen of the Heat this year, LeBron almost always “differs” from Wade (and pretty much everyone else in the NBA) by a wide margin…

    80. johnno

      Brian Cronin: It is a bit worrisome to try to pick up a back-up guard and re-sign Prigs and Cope all with just the vet minimum and the mini-MLE to work with.

      Why is everyone focusing only on re-signing Prigs and Cope? Isn’t it also a little worrisome that they have to figure out a way to re-sign K-Mart? Is everyone sure that he’ll sign for the vet minimum?

    81. flossy

      johnno: Isn’t it also a little worrisome that they have to figure out a way to re-sign K-Mart?Is everyone sure that he’ll sign for the vet minimum?

      In a word, yes. I am quite sure he’ll be available for the vets min.

    82. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, I don’t really see a likely scenario where K-Mart would get more than the vet minimum this offseason. I can see scenarios where Prigs and Cope do, though (and Nate Robinson, also).

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