Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Sunday, November 23, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jul 26 2012)

  • [New York Daily News] Battle for New York: Nets host Knicks in opener (Thu, 26 Jul 2012 05:53:21 GMT)
    If the Nets truly found a home in Brooklyn â?? and not just an extension of Madison Square Garden â?? they’ll find out on the first day of the season.

  • [New York Post] Nets will open Barclays Center vs. Knicks (Thu, 26 Jul 2012 05:23:51 -0500)
    The NBA didn’t waste any time in getting its newest version of a Subway Series rivalry off the ground.
    The Brooklyn Nets will play their first regular-season game at home in the Barclays Center against their in-city rival Knicks on Thursday, Nov. 1, league sources confirmed. The game will…

  • 71 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jul 26 2012)

    1. sidestep

      What’s up with the Chicago front office? Are the Bulls not in ‘win now’ mode because of Rose’s injury and are thus shedding players to save money? or is Chicago generally just cheap like that and would be making these moves even if Rose were healthy?

    2. ephus

      The Bulls are bumping up against the tax threshold, and are apparently unwilling to become big taxpayers this year. They have four players making north of $10 million/year (Rose, Deng, Noah and Boozer). Their cap situation is going to become worse after this year, because Taj Gibson will be a restricted free agent.

      Chicago has to hope that Boozer can bounce back this year, so that he can be traded for multiple valuable parts during the off season. If not, the Bulls could amnesty Boozer to avoid a huge tax bill next year when the graduated rates take effect.

    3. Eternal OptiKnist

      sidestep: What’s up with the Chicago front office? Are the Bulls not in ‘win now’ mode because of Rose’s injury and are thus shedding players to save money? or is Chicago generally just cheap like that and would be making these moves even if Rose were healthy?

      Looks like the new CBA is working. If you believe the knicks truly let lin walk for money..its stopped even James Dolan from spending.

    4. thenamestsam

      Eternal OptiKnist: Looks like the new CBA is working.If you believe the knicks truly let lin walk for money..its stopped even James Dolan from spending.

      I don’t think it’s just the CBA though. Chicago has always been hesitant to be a tax team.

      The whole thing just goes to show you how freaking hard it is to build a true championship contender without being a tax team. Chicago did effectively everything right: hired a great coach, won the lottery in a year with a true superstar prospect, made a bunch of other good to great draft picks, a bunch of smart, savvy signings. The only things they really did wrong was the Boozer deal. And in spite of all that it looks like their best window may have come and gone in 2 years, one ECF loss and one playoff run derailed by injury.

      I still think it’s possible they can get back into serious contention, but they’ll need to keep making excellent decisions and probably hit on at least a couple draft picks if they’re going to avoid being a tax team. I’ve seen people suggest that they should pull a Spurs move and hold Rose out all year, tank, and try to grab a top 3 pick to play with Rose next year. In the long run probably the best move they can make although even sans Rose they might be too good to have a real shot at #1 overall.

    5. sidestep

      Eternal OptiKnist: Looks like the new CBA is working.If you believe the knicks truly let lin walk for money..its stopped even James Dolan from spending.

      Well, I say cross that bridge when one comes to it. In 2014, had Lin still been on the roster, Knicks could have shed other pieces like Stat. Stat’s contract for 2014 is for 23.4 million — I’m wondering how feasible it would have been to trade him to shed that amount.
      http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/amare-stoudemire/

      Another bridge expression comes to mind: it’s all water under the bridge anyway.

    6. Eternal OptiKnist

      true…bulls have always been cheap, but teams just seem to be fearing this tax now.

    7. ephus

      According to the chart compiled by Mark Deeks, the Bulls have never been a taxpayer.

      http://t.co/58xKREun

      They will be this year, unless they ditch salary during the course of the season.

      If the Nets cannot get Dwight Howard on January 15, I would not be surprised to see the Nets swap Humphries for Boozer at the trade deadline. Both are overpaid, but Humphries is $3 million cheaper and has one year less on his contract. Boozer has a much more developed offensive game.

    8. Eternal OptiKnist

      sidestep: Well, I say cross that bridge when one comes to it. In 2014, had Lin still been on the roster, Knicks could have shed other pieces like Stat. Stat’s contract for 2014 is for 23.4 million — I’m wondering how feasible it would have been to trade him to shed that amount.http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/amare-stoudemire/Another bridge expression comes to mind: it’s all water under the bridge anyway.

      i think the lin thing was a mistake. Just saying, if you believe it was about money, the tax is working.

    9. Eternal OptiKnist

      man, i was originally pissed about the nets moving to brooklyn, but i gotta say, i’m loving it now. Maybe thats due in large part because they didnt get Howard (i dont necessarily think thats over, btw). I think 1) it keeps Knicks ownership/management a little more honest..they can no longer just rely on being “the knicks”. 2) this is going to be an awesome rivalry…especially now that both teams should be good for at least the next 2 – 3 years. I hope that first game lives up to the unbelievable storyline its going to be.

    10. Eternal OptiKnist

      As an NBA fan, 2000 – 2010 really just sucked balls. Not just because im a Knick fan, but the NBA in general..it was just tough coming off the golden-age 90s..really uninteresting ball. You really couldn’t find anyone to talk NBA..the casual fan could care less. I think this decade is off to an amazing start..and we owe that to Lebron, like it or not. He made free agency the annual frenzy that it is..its made the NBA a year-round sport; granted, not nearly to the degree that football is..but lots of people talk NBA now. First the ‘decision’ then the ‘pep rally’ then the country rooting for Dirk. Then we had Linsanity last year and that took it to another level. Now look…every major market is good. Then you have tough competition from up-and-coming small markets, year two of linsanity (albeit in Houston)…this decade is going to be another great one for the NBA. Maybe not Jordan and the Bulls, but the best since. I love this game.

    11. sidestep

      Lin will have PnR partners in Chandler Parsons and Asik. Along with other young talent assembled around them. Could be an entertaining team to watch.

    12. ephus

      My wild speculation is still that Orlando will end up sending Howard to Oklahoma City in a deal for Harden and/or Ibaka.

      Here are some deals that work:

      Orlando gets: Ibaka, Harden, Perkins, Sefolosha
      OKC gets: Howard, Duhon, Q. Richardson

      or

      Orlando gets: Ibaka, Harden, Perkins, Cook, Maynor
      OKC gets: Howard, Duhon, Q. Richardson

      If OKC drives a hard bargain, they could take Harden out of the deal and include their first round pick (this year and 2015) for just Howard.

      OKC would then need to turn Harden into a younger, cheaper asset to stay out of the tax. After August 6, they could send Harden to Washington for Bradley Beal. The salaries match up, but Beal is on a rookie deal for three more years, while Harden will be a RFA after this year.

      The big risk for OKC is that Dwight Howard might leave after this season for cap space in Dallas. But if I am Sam Presti, I would take that risk because the money and the opportunity will be better in OKC.

      Howard/Durant/Westbrook is a championship level core. In Dallas, Dirk is aging and Dallas would not have the cap space for another max deal if they sign Howard. Dallas would have to try a sign-and-trade to get another big gun.

      Howard would be able to get a 5 year deal with 7.5% raises in OKC, but only a 4 year deal with 4.5% raises in Dallas. Over the first four years of the deal, Howard would make $6 million more in OKC and he would have a guaranteed 5th year at $26.5 million.

    13. PC

      If you like to watch losing, yes that team will be a blast to watch. Their roster is horrendous. Lucky if they win 18 games.

      sidestep: Lin will have PnR partners in Chandler Parsons and Asik. Along with other young talent assembled around them. Could be an entertaining team to watch.

    14. er

      i literally laughed out loud when i read this…..its so true though man , they kinda suck

      PC:
      If you like to watch losing, yes that team will be a blast to watch.Their roster is horrendous.Lucky if they win 18 games.

    15. ephus

      Atlanta is one more logical contender for Dwight Howard (after September 16 when trade restrictions expire).

      Atlanta could send Horford, up to 3 first round picks (2013, Houston 2013 (top 14 protected through 2016) and 2015) plus $26 million in expiring contracts (Harris, Korver, Pachulia, Morrow and Petro) to Orlando for D12 and most of the bad contracts that Orlando wants to ditch (Turkoglu, J. Richardson, Duhon and Q. Richardson)

      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cqnskos

      The Atlanta package is infinitely more appealing than what LA, Houston or New Jersey can provide. Orlando does not want Bynum (absent a guarantee that he would stay). Houston has only cap space to offer. New Jersey would require Orlando to take back Brook Lopez (4 years) and Kris Humphries (2 years).

      Atlanta would then be at risk that Howard would bolt for Dallas at the end of the season. But Atlanta could offer more money and a longer deal. More importantly, Howard would get to play with Josh Smith (long time friend) and Jeff Teague. In addition, Howard grew up around Atlanta.

    16. johnlocke

      If you were 24, would you really consider moving to Oklahoma City to live if you could live in New York, Atlanta or even Dallas? While it makes strategic sense, I don’t think Dwight wants any part of living in Oklahoma City. They managed to get great players through the draft and then offered them max money to stay, but that place will be a tough place to attract young, single players I think.

      ephus:
      My wild speculation is still that Orlando will end up sending Howard to Oklahoma City in a deal for Harden and/or Ibaka.

    17. johnlocke

      yeh, that makes more sense for all parties …

      ephus:
      Atlanta is one more logical contender for Dwight Howard (after September 16 when trade restrictions expire).

      Atlanta could send Horford, up to 3 first round picks (2013, Houston 2013 (top 14 protected through 2016) and 2015) plus $26 million in expiring contracts (Harris, Korver, Pachulia, Morrow and Petro) to Orlando for D12 and most of the bad contracts that Orlando wants to ditch (Turkoglu, J. Richardson, Duhon and Q. Richardson)

      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cqnskos

      The Atlanta package is infinitely more appealing than what LA, Houston or New Jersey can provide.Orlando does not want Bynum (absent a guarantee that he would stay).Houston has only cap space to offer.New Jersey would require Orlando to take back Brook Lopez (4 years) and Kris Humphries (2 years).

      Atlanta would then be at risk that Howard would bolt for Dallas at the end of the season.But Atlanta could offer more money and a longer deal.More importantly, Howard would get to play with Josh Smith (long time friend) and Jeff Teague.In addition, Howard grew up around Atlanta.

    18. thenamestsam

      ephus:
      Atlanta is one more logical contender for Dwight Howard (after September 16 when trade restrictions expire).

      Atlanta could send Horford, up to 3 first round picks (2013, Houston 2013 (top 14 protected through 2016) and 2015) plus $26 million in expiring contracts (Harris, Korver, Pachulia, Morrow and Petro) to Orlando for D12 and most of the bad contracts that Orlando wants to ditch (Turkoglu, J. Richardson, Duhon and Q. Richardson)

      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cqnskos

      The Atlanta package is infinitely more appealing than what LA, Houston or New Jersey can provide.Orlando does not want Bynum (absent a guarantee that he would stay).Houston has only cap space to offer.New Jersey would require Orlando to take back Brook Lopez (4 years) and Kris Humphries (2 years).

      What’s the current state of Houston’s ability to trade for Dwight? Looking at it quickly on the trade machine it seems like it’s basically impossible until they’re able to trade either Asik or Lin because they just don’t have enough salaries that they can send out in a trade at this point. Is that correct?

    19. kng94

      The only major difference in the Nets’ starting lineup is Joe Johnson. Sure they have CJ Watson as a backup PG but I’d say our backup depth of Kidd/Prigioni are just as good if not better. Having two defensive guards in Brewer and Shump (when he gets back) should do well in our efforts to hold off “the best backcourt in the league”. Humphries is a pretty good rebounder, but we have Camby there. Not to mention Tyson and hopefully STAT to grab some too. The notion that Brook Lopez is a better center than TC is a joke. Tyson had twice as many rebounds per 48 than Lopez, and beats him in steals and blocks.

    20. sekou

      as a friend of mine put it, the Bulls are officially in the Jabari Parker sweepstakes. they are hoping to pull a spurs-type move..

      sidestep:
      What’s up with the Chicago front office? Are the Bulls not in ‘win now’ mode because of Rose’s injury and are thus shedding players to save money? or is Chicago generally just cheap like that and would be making these moves even if Rose were healthy?

    21. thenamestsam

      thenamestsam: What’s the current state of Houston’s ability to trade for Dwight? Looking at it quickly on the trade machine it seems like it’s basically impossible until they’re able to trade either Asik or Lin because they just don’t have enough salaries that they can send out in a trade at this point. Is that correct?

      Or I should say that it’s possible, but their ability to take back a bunch of the crappy salaries has essentially evaporated. They could take QRich if they send Patterson, Morris, Martin and TD along with Lamb and White from this year, but even though that’s a ton of young assets none has star potential and I can’t see Hennigan taking that if he’s not clearing some of the worst contracts on the books.

    22. sidestep

      thenamestsam: What’s the current state of Houston’s ability to trade for Dwight? Looking at it quickly on the trade machine it seems like it’s basically impossible until they’re able to trade either Asik or Lin because they just don’t have enough salaries that they can send out in a trade at this point. Is that correct?

      Houston already has a 5 spot but signing Asik to a 3yr 25mil contract. Expensive but they have plenty of cap space to play with. To get Dwight, doesn’t Houston have to get another team to pick up that Asik contract? I don’t see that happening. (Frankly, I am so tired of hearing about super man-child’s desire to be traded or not. Fickle baby.)

    23. formido

      Anyone following the summer league coverage on ESPN and across the web knows that Houston’s 4 draft picks from the last two years are making noise. On top of that, they can take bad contracts and have a lottery pick and “late first round” second rounder next year. They are one of the only teams with a legit shot at Howard or Bynum this year, and if they get neither, they will keep their picks, promising players, and have $30 million in cap room next off season to go after a couple of stars. That just leaves this year. Either they’ll be a lottery team (good) or Lin will live up to the hype (even better). Houston is dealing with Orlando from a position of strength.

      Comprehensive recap of Houston’s bargaining position:

      http://rockets.clutchfans.net/2913/houston-rockets-salary-cap-2/

    24. thenamestsam

      formido:

      Comprehensive recap of Houston’s bargaining position:

      http://rockets.clutchfans.net/2913/houston-rockets-salary-cap-2/

      Ah that was very helpful. I forgot that they had enough non-guaranteed deals to be able to take back a bunch of guys while staying under the cap. I was assuming they would have to match salaries which they can’t really do. Under those circumstances I think they can give up a package of players and picks (something like 3 first round picks from last year and this year along with 3 future picks, one of which is a guaranteed lottery pick) that is better than getting just Horford. Combine that with eating the salaries and I still think they have the most to offer aside from OKC.

      As for ephus’ OKC theory I really don’t think they’re going to get involved. Presti is a San Antonio guy and one of the biggest things Pop and Buford have always stressed is how important having your star players be high character/low drama leadership guys. I can’t imagine San Antonio trading for a guy like Howard and consequently I’m assuming Presti would be similar. I do think they could put out a really strong offer though and I think they’d be favorites to win the title next year with him. A perennial title favorite (possibly coming off chip #1) and the extra money would make it awfully hard for him to walk away after next year.

    25. ephus

      I think the Atlanta package (which brings three first round picks, including Houston’s 2013 pick (lottery protected)) is more enticing than Houston’s because Horford is a well-priced 5 and Orlando could clear out all of their bad salaries, including Turkoglu.

    26. ephus

      On OKC, it Presti does not move one of Harden or Ibaka and both make it to the end of the season healthy, then one of them would be virtually certain to leave at the end of the season. He could try to flip one of them in a sign-and-trade for draft picks, but that would be high risk.

    27. MeloDrama

      ephus:
      Atlanta is one more logical contender for Dwight Howard (after September 16 when trade restrictions expire).

      Atlanta could send Horford, up to 3 first round picks (2013, Houston 2013 (top 14 protected through 2016) and 2015) plus $26 million in expiring contracts (Harris, Korver, Pachulia, Morrow and Petro) to Orlando for D12 and most of the bad contracts that Orlando wants to ditch (Turkoglu, J. Richardson, Duhon and Q. Richardson)

      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cqnskos

      The Atlanta package is infinitely more appealing than what LA, Houston or New Jersey can provide.Orlando does not want Bynum (absent a guarantee that he would stay).Houston has only cap space to offer.New Jersey would require Orlando to take back Brook Lopez (4 years) and Kris Humphries (2 years).

      Atlanta would then be at risk that Howard would bolt for Dallas at the end of the season.But Atlanta could offer more money and a longer deal.More importantly, Howard would get to play with Josh Smith (long time friend) and Jeff Teague.In addition, Howard grew up around Atlanta.

      If I’m Atlanta, I seriously consider going all in for Dwight. No big market aside from Dallas would appear to be on the table, and outside of an amazing situation I don’t see Dwight passing on a ton of guaranteed coin to leave his hometown.

      But if he does, S&T for some picks hopefully and you tank for another star.

    28. MeloDrama

      And ditto for Houston, which can give up a fair amount and still have enough assets to tool around Dwight for this year.

    29. MeloDrama

      sidestep: Well, I say cross that bridge when one comes to it. In 2014, had Lin still been on the roster, Knicks could have shed other pieces like Stat. Stat’s contract for 2014 is for 23.4 million — I’m wondering how feasible it would have been to trade him to shed that amount.
      http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/amare-stoudemire/

      Another bridge expression comes to mind: it’s all water under the bridge anyway.

      I don’t think we’re ever trading Stat, at least not to get under the tax; the only way I can see a team dealing for him is if he’s entering his final year and someone wants to dump a couple of longer contracts (see the Rashard Lewis for Ariza and Okafor deal) or if he just returns to Phoenix form; in the latter case, NYK probably wouldn’t dump him, and in the former, we’d be taxed for even longer.

    30. ruruland

      ephus: I would like to see Carmelo play stretches of each game at the 4, while either STAT or Chandler rest.But even if the front court is ‘Melo/STAT/Chandler, I think it makes sense to run the PnR with ‘Melo setting the ball screen.If Amar’e returns to his historical averages as a mid-range jump shooter, he can provide the spacing necessary for the play to work.

      Efficiency doesn’t change by position or when roles are changed, nor does it change by kind of shot.

    31. ephus

      MeloDrama: If I’m Atlanta, I seriously consider going all in for Dwight. No big market aside from Dallas would appear to be on the table, and outside of an amazing situation I don’t see Dwight passing on a ton of guaranteed coin to leave his hometown.

      But if he does, S&T for some picks hopefully and you tank for another star.

      Even though Atlanta will have big cap space in the 2013 off season, they are much better off trying to get Howard now.

      1. Howard is duplicative with Horford, who is one of Atlanta’s few assets. If Howard comes as a UFA, it will be hard to get full value for Horford in a trade, because trading partners will know it is a forced move. Atlanta would not be able to give Howard any assurance who they would get for Horford.

      2. If Howard is a UFA and not already on Atlanta, than Atlanta will not have any financial advantage over Dallas in the bidding.

      3. Atlanta’s expiring contracts turn into cap space at the end of the season. The purpose of accumulating cap space is to be able to sign a UFA. There is no other UFA nearly as valuable as Howard.

      On the down side, Atlanta would have to give up multiple #1 picks and take back some really bad contracts. But these detriments are less substantial than they appear.

      1. The Rockets first round pick is probably a mirage until 2017, when the lottery protection elapses. The Hawks’ first round picks, once they get Howard, will be in the 20s.

      2. The Hawks have enough talent to keep Duhon and Quentin Richardson on the bench.

    32. ephus

      ruruland: Efficiency doesn’t change by position or when roles are changed, nor does it change by kind of shot.

      I am saying that I would like to see ‘Melo regularly catching the ball in the lane, moving toward the basket, while the defense is rotating, rather than standing still on the wing or at the elbow. And if he is going to catch the ball on the elbow, I would like to see the Knicks run the pin-down screen play that OKC utilized for KD so frequently against San Antonio.

      Are you saying that open shots in the lane are not more efficient than contested 18′ shots from the elbow extended? Are you saying that Carmelo Anthony’s isolation game would not be more effective playing against slower PFs? I am not trolling, just genuinely confused. Shouldn’t the Knicks be running their offense to get him the ball in more threatening positions?

    33. thenamestsam

      ruruland: Efficiency doesn’t change by position or when roles are changed, nor does it change by kind of shot.

      If someone actually posts that then feel free to debate that point and mock if you see fit. Until then I don’t see how you can possibly claim that this is in any way a constructive post. It’s pure trolling.

      ephus: I would like to see Carmelo play stretches of each game at the 4, while either STAT or Chandler rest.But even if the front court is ‘Melo/STAT/Chandler, I think it makes sense to run the PnR with ‘Melo setting the ball screen.If Amar’e returns to his historical averages as a mid-range jump shooter, he can provide the spacing necessary for the play to work.

      I agree wholeheartedly about Melo getting time at the 4, but the Knicks don’t seem to feel that way. Unless either Thomas or Camby is going to be a pure towel-waver and the other is going to be mostly that the front court is looking overly crowded. Amare and Tyson are both going to play 30+ minutes. A conservative estimate would be say 63 minutes combined. That leaves 33 minutes combined for Camby, Melo and Thomas. I imagine Camby is going to get 20+. So even with low estimates I think we’re talking maybe 10 minutes at most a night for Melo at the 4, and even that is going to be hard to carve out. I hope Woodson does what he can to find that time though because I think it can be an offensively dynamite lineup.

    34. ephus

      thenamestsam: So even with low estimates I think we’re talking maybe 10 minutes at most a night for Melo at the 4, and even that is going to be hard to carve out. I hope Woodson does what he can to find that time though because I think it can be an offensively dynamite lineup.

      10 minutes per night was exactly what I meant by “stretches of each game at the 4.” Until Shumpert returns, I would like to see JR Smith get around 12 minutes per night at the 3 (along with around 20 minutes per game at the 2) and Novak get around 12 minutes per game as well.

    35. johnlocke

      I like this. I also didn’t get ruru’s post. If Chris Paul is playing SG and not bringing the ball up and initiating the offense but playing the prototypical SG’s role the effect on his team and overall production would definitely be different. Maybe you can argue there isn’t a big enough gap between the SF and PF position, but I’d argue there are very few PFs that can effectively guard Melo and very few effective post-up PFs in the NBA these days. Even if they put a SF on Melo while he’s playing the PF position, you still have cross-match effects. This was all borne out during the stretch run at the end of the season.

      ephus: 10 minutes per night was exactly what I meant by “stretches of each game at the 4.”Until Shumpert returns, I would like to see JR Smith get around 12 minutes per night at the 3 (along with around 20 minutes per game at the 2) and Novak get around 12 minutes per game as well.

    36. thenamestsam

      ephus: 10 minutes per night was exactly what I meant by “stretches of each game at the 4.”Until Shumpert returns, I would like to see JR Smith get around 12 minutes per night at the 3 (along with around 20 minutes per game at the 2) and Novak get around 12 minutes per game as well.

      Yeah, I think 10 minutes a night is a good number and I’d be happy with it too, but my point was getting to that number requires slashing about 2 minutes off of Chandler, Amare and Camby’s minutes (from a shortened season where most guys played less than usual) and not using Thomas at all. I guess what I’m saying is that if the Knicks are committed to playing Melo at the 4 they can find time for it, but bringing in Camby and Thomas suggests to me that they’re not planning on it.

    37. ephus

      I do not think Kurt Thomas is going to get much playing time, except for injuries and foul trouble. His biggest contributions over the past few years have been defense, defensive rebounding and 16-23′ jumpers. But Chandler and Camby contribute more effective defense, and playing Thomas along side Chandler or Camby will lead to some really ugly offensive possessions.

      So think of KT as an insurance policy on Chandler’s temper and Camby’s aging.

    38. ruruland

      Right, ephus, you missed my point. I agree 100%.

      Before I got wrapped up in my Synergy account, I talked about Melo’s versatility and the need to put him in more assisted basket situations.

      That was in response to folks like Owen and others who claimed he could only score in isolation, and regardless of how good Melo is in isolation (and he’s great), the Knicks would be forever doomed because their primary option was taking too many low efficiency shots.

      Well, the facts are that over the last two years Melo’s actually been a great roller, with efficiency comparable to Amare the last 3 years. He’s also been an excellent cutter, an above average spot-up player (great in 2011), and above average to excellent off-screens and hand-offs.

      The problem, as you implied, was the very low distribution of those shots relative to isolations.

      The question of why Melo takes so many isolations is more complicated.

      However, there’s little doubt that adding two good passing point guards should likely change Melo shot distribution in a positive way.

      In my opinion, Jason Kidd’s passing skills are very similiar, if not superior to Andre Miller — they’re very similar non-penetration passers who see the whole floor.

      When Melo played with Miller, his assisted baskets attempts and efficiency were both higher, and that was before he developed a 3pt shot.

      Adding two offensive facets — roll and 3pt spot-ups — should make him more dangerous than ever.

      Most importantly, with two very good passers and the threat of starting penetration, the team is constructed in a way that can take advantage of his great off-ball abilities.

      Melo’s been working on his off-ball game all summer in anticipation of LIN playing point guard. Nothing changes with Felton and Kidd, in fact, he’ll probably get feed off-ball more frequently with those two.

    39. thenamestsam

      ephus:
      I do not think Kurt Thomas is going to get much playing time, except for injuries and foul trouble. His biggest contributions over the past few years have been defense, defensive rebounding and 16-23? jumpers.But Chandler and Camby contribute more effective defense, and playing Thomas along side Chandler or Camby will lead to some really ugly offensive possessions.

      So think of KT as an insurance policy on Chandler’s temper and Camby’s aging.

      Oh, I absolutely do think of KT that way. I’m just doubtful that Woodson will. We shall see. Having a rotation that’s overfull with guys who you want to put out there is about the best problem you can have.

      I don’t think this is a very synergistic roster, and as many have pointed out we have a high number of “one-way” players, but essentially every single guy on the roster has at least one excellent skill that gives them a reason to be on the floor at times. That’s not something I’ve said about a Knicks roster in a long time. Hell, we usually have had 4 or 5 guys I wouldn’t want on the floor ever, under any circumstance. I’m not sure whether Grunwald is great or we’re just so used to incompetent executives that he seems great by comparison, but either way it’s definitely a change for the better.

    40. ruruland

      johnlocke:
      I like this. I also didn’t get ruru’s post. If Chris Paul is playing SG and not bringing the ball up and initiating the offense but playing the prototypical SG’s role the effect on his team and overall production would definitely be different. Maybe you can argue there isn’t a big enough gap between the SF and PF position, but I’d argue there are very few PFs that can effectively guard Melo and very few effective post-up PFs in the NBA these days. Even if they put a SF on Melo while he’s playing the PF position, you still have cross-match effects. This was all borne out during the stretch run at the end of the season.

      I agree. There is a huge difference in efficiency depending on what your skills are and how you’re used. This is an argument for THCJ and co.

    41. ruruland

      ephus:
      I do not think Kurt Thomas is going to get much playing time, except for injuries and foul trouble. His biggest contributions over the past few years have been defense, defensive rebounding and 16-23? jumpers.But Chandler and Camby contribute more effective defense, and playing Thomas along side Chandler or Camby will lead to some really ugly offensive possessions.

      So think of KT as an insurance policy on Chandler’s temper and Camby’s aging.

      Camby is going to sit out 10-15 games. Just what he does to keep himself fresh for the end of the season. he earned the “bambi” moniker. He’s missed 110 games the last 8 years without suffering any significant injuries.

      Chandler can probably ease up a little bit this year for the playoffs.

      I can see Thomas getting 20 minutes in 30-35 games.

    42. thenamestsam

      ruruland: I agree. There is a huge difference in efficiency depending on what your skills are and how you’re used. This is an argument for THCJ and co.

      It’s not an argument for anyone until someone actually espouses that position! If THCJ believes that then let him say it and then have an argument about it. Saying something that you think someone else might say in order to start an argument about it is literally the height of trolling.

      You’re picking a fight, but then when those guys get pissed at you you act all innocent like you can’t believe they call you names or complain about you. If you want to take the high road then actually take it.

    43. ruruland

      thenamestsam: Oh, I absolutely do think of KT that way. I’m just doubtful that Woodson will. We shall see. Having a rotation that’s overfull with guys who you want to put out there is about the best problem you can have.

      I don’t think this is a very synergistic roster, and as many have pointed out we have a high number of “one-way” players, but essentially every single guy on the roster has at least one excellent skill that gives them a reason to be on the floor at times. That’s not something I’ve said about a Knicks roster in a long time. Hell, we usually have had 4 or 5 guys I wouldn’t want on the floor ever, under any circumstance. I’m not sure whether Grunwald is great or we’re just so used to incompetent executives that he seems great by comparison, but either way it’s definitely a change for the better.

      What would be an example of a synergistic roster? San Antonio?

      OKC has a shoot first point guard with two of the best scoring wings in the game — the team has no real inside-out player for spot-ups and is haphazard in the half-court.

      Boston is pretty synergistic, but they’re also very small and their point guard can’t shoot.

      Brooklyn seems pretty synergistic to me on offense.

      I guess, to me, ideal Synergy is the idea of combining shooting with two way ability, and varied shot creation.

      The Knicks are a little short on shooting — but that could change if Shumpert develops….

      But, they have varied shot-creation, great pick and roll bigs combined with a great passing big (Camby), and good spot-up shooting at the guards and small forwards outside of Brewer.

      To make up for it, the Knicks should be a really good offensive rebounding team with Brewer and Camby.

    44. thenamestsam

      The schedule is out. It can be seen here:

      http://espn.go.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/NY/new-york-knicks

      Early schedule looks tough.

      @ Brooklyn followed by Miami on a back-to-back could reasonably be an 0-2 start, and then another back to back home-and-home with the sixers, then Dallas, @Orlando, @Spurs @Memphis (back-to-back). If Orlando hangs onto Dwight that could be 7 consecutive playoff teams to start, including 3 back-to-backs.

    45. ruruland

      thenamestsam: It’s not an argument for anyone until someone actually espouses that position! If THCJ believes that then let him say it and then have an argument about it. Saying something that you think someone else might say in order to start an argument about it is literally the height of trolling.

      You’re picking a fight, but then when those guys get pissed at you you act all innocent like you can’t believe they call you names or complain about you. If you want to take the high road then actually take it.

      Fair enough.

    46. BigBlueAL

      Holy crap, Knicks on national TV 25 times and NBATV 7 times as of right now. Thats almost half their games. I love NBA League Pass but Ive been looking to cut back some and if I can see almost half their games w/o need League Pass I might have to consider skipping League Pass this year.

      In the end Im sure I wont though lol

    47. Juany8

      ruruland: I agree. There is a huge difference in efficiency depending on what your skills are and how you’re used. This is an argument for THCJ and co.

      lol while I totally agree, you really should wait until they make one of their ridiculous pronunciations before trolling them back. For instance, WP says Matt Barnes was better per minute than Andrew Bynum last year. I honestly wonder how someone could ever watch a basketball game and think there was even a remote chance Barnes is the real star on the Lakers. Or how Berri can say NBA coaches are dumb and then recommend to Phil Jackson that Barnes and Kobe should flip minutes

    48. Nick C.

      Juany8: lol while I totally agree, you really should wait until they make one of their ridiculous pronunciations before trolling them back. For instance, WP says Matt Barnes was better per minute than Andrew Bynum last year. I honestly wonder how someone could ever watch a basketball game and think there was even a remote chance Barnes is the real star on the Lakers. Or how Berri can say NBA coaches are dumb and then recommend to Phil Jackson that Barnes and Kobe should flip minutes

      Melo was the official end of the string when everyone else played hot potato because they didn’t have the perfect look. So five seconds left “do something Melo”. Now whether he is in part to blame for dithering away seconds 20-10 is a whole other story. (Yes Jamal dribbling between your legs endlessly I’m looking at you)

    49. domiknick

      BigBlueAL:
      Holy crap, Knicks on national TV 25 times and NBATV 7 times as of right now.Thats almost half their games.I love NBA League Pass but Ive been looking to cut back some and if I can see almost half their games w/o need League Pass I might have to consider skipping League Pass this year.

      In the end Im sure I wont though lol

      Based off that link above, I’m counting 24 televised games on that list. How did you get to 32 (25+7)? If I’m just missing something totally obvious, I apologize in advance, it’s been a long day. :)

    50. ephus

      Sunday @ Noon x5. Another 2 Sunday games @ 1 pm. Hopefully, the Knicks can carry out the strategy by showing up bright eyed and bushy-tailed, while the opponents are recovering from the Manhattan nightlife.

    51. BigBlueAL

      domiknick: Based off that link above, I’m counting 24 televised games on that list.How did you get to 32 (25+7)?If I’m just missing something totally obvious, I apologize in advance, it’s been a long day. :)

      Their official site has the full schedule with national TV dates:

      http://www.nba.com/knicks/schedule/

      To add to my NBA League Pass quote, one thing about it is its so much worse than MLB Extra Innings. Obviously MLB shows more games because of their schedule but they have more channels which allows for them to show more Home/Away broadcast options plus they have an extra HD channel. They also only are blacked out for the 1 Sunday Night game on ESPN and during the Fox time slot on Saturdays. With the NBA if the game is on ESPN/TNT/NBATV its not on League Pass where with MLB if the game is on ESPN/MLBN/TBS it will still be on their package giving you more broadcast options.

      I dont like either broadband options because of the sketchy feeds although MLB blows away NBA broadband by a mile. NBA broadband is so basic it is very disappointing.

      Maybe though I will get the limited NBA broadband package to save some money and use it just to watch Knick games. We’ll see when the pricing is announced as we get closer to the season.

    52. ruruland

      Knicks biggest weakness on offense last season:

      27th in turnover percentage

      18th in offensive rebound percentage

      (Knicks were 10th in TS% despite all the stuff we’ve gone over)

      Defensive weakness: defensive rebounding (12th)

      Incoming: Camby 13.3 oreb % (7th among centers), 32.7 dreb%

      Outgoing: Jared Jeffries 10.8% oreb, 13.3dreb%,

    53. Caleb

      thenamestsam: If someone actually posts that then feel free to debate that point and mock if you see fit. Until then I don’t see how you can possibly claim that this is in any way a constructive post. It’s pure trolling.

      I agree wholeheartedly about Melo getting time at the 4, but the Knicks don’t seem to feel that way. Unless either Thomas or Camby is going to be a pure towel-waver and the other is going to be mostly that the front court is looking overly crowded. Amare and Tyson are both going to play 30+ minutes. A conservative estimate would be say 63 minutes combined.That leaves 33 minutes combined for Camby, Melo and Thomas. I imagine Camby is going to get 20+. So even with low estimates I think we’re talking maybe 10 minutes at most a night for Melo at the 4, and even that is going to be hard to carve out. I hope Woodson does what he can to find that time though because I think it can be an offensively dynamite lineup.

      I don’t think Kurt Thomas will be seeing the floor unless we’re hit with a lot of injuries, and I don’t see Camby getting more than 20 mpg, when people are healthy. I think we’ll see a fair amount of Melo at the 4, which is great – his #s were way better there, I seem to remember, although I think I’m just remembering some Hollinger article.

    54. Zanzibar

      ruruland:
      Knicks biggest weakness on offense last season:
      27th in turnover percentage
      18th in offensive rebound percentage
      (Knicks were 10th in TS% despite all the stuff we’ve gone over)

      #2 in 3pt shots taken but 22nd in 3pt%. Only Novak shot >=35%. Raja Bell (39%) is still out there reportedly interested in Miami. We should get in there and offer Bell the starting SG position and have him share the minutes with JR. Only give Shump spot minutes next season (Bell is a better overall defender than Shump at this stage and a much better shooter). Let’s hope Kidd can maintain his 35% clip and that Felton can match his career high of 38% in this regard. If Felton/Kidd cannot make the P&R work with Amare, we’re gonna be exclusively Melo and Amare ISOs with spread floor and 3pt shooting could make or break the season.

    55. jon abbey

      maybe you missed the Ronnie Brewer signing, not that he’s a shooter, but he is likely going to be the starting SG until Shumpie is back to Shumpie.

    56. ruruland

      Caleb: I don’t think Kurt Thomas will be seeing the floor unless we’re hit with a lot of injuries, and I don’t see Camby getting more than 20 mpg, when people are healthy. I think we’ll see a fair amount of Melo at the 4, which is great – his #s were way better there, I seem to remember, although I think I’m just remembering some Hollinger article.

      So many cool lineups next year. One I’d love to see against more plodding frontcouts like Indiana — Amar’e, Melo, Novak, Jr/Kidd, Felton…

      You could go twin towers against Miami to take advantage of their small ineup by using a zone defense—-Chandler, Camby, Melo, JR, Felton

      How about shutting down Brooklyn late in the year with a Shump,Brewer, Smith, Melo, AMare…..

      Two point guard 4 out offense — Kidd, Felton, Smith/Novak, Melo Amar’e.

    57. ruruland

      Zanzibar: #2 in 3pt shots taken but 22nd in 3pt%. Only Novak shot >=35%. Raja Bell (39%) is still out there reportedly interested in Miami. We should get in there and offer Bell the starting SG position and have him share the minutes with JR. Only give Shump spot minutes next season (Bell is a better overall defender than Shump at this stage and a much better shooter). Let’s hope Kidd can maintain his 35% clip and that Felton can match his career high of 38% in this regard. If Felton/Kidd cannot make the P&R work with Amare, we’re gonna be exclusively Melo and Amare ISOs with spread floor and 3pt shooting could make or break the season.

      Why wouldn’t Felton and Amar’e work in the pnr as it did in ’10?

      Jr Smith just needs to take more assisted spot-up 3s next year to get back in the high 30s/low 40s range again.

      Mike Bibby (.318), Baron Davis (.306), Toney Douglas (.231), Landry Fields (.256) Shumpert (.306), Lin (.320), Walker (319), shot a combined 678 3s last year while Novak (.472) and Smith (.347) combined for 475.

      Smith and Novak shot a 3pter every 4 minutes of game time.last year, they just played far fewer minutes….They should represent a far higher proportion of the team’s 3-pt shots next season…..

      Second, those players have been replaced by superior 3pt shooters in Kidd and Felton at the pg position ( in comparison to Fields, Douglas, and the rest of the guards)…..

      Brewer is a low volume 3pt shooter. And Melo is likely to at least get back to his spot numbers from ’10.

      They won’t be the best 3pt shooting team in the NBA but they should be good, and much improved last year simply by the virtue of far more minutes for Novak and Smith.

    58. Zanzibar

      I’m hoping GG hasn’t given up on pursuing solid defenders who can shoot like Bell, Pietrus, Delfino. Any of those would be preferable to Brewer or Shump as the SG imo. Offer Bell some meaningful burn and maybe he chooses Knicks. Brewer can’t shoot and Shump is a project irrespective of his health (his P&R and help defense, shooting). Kidd will be 40 at playoff time so it may be we only have one back court player (JR) shooting >= 35%. That can be mitigated if the Amare P&R is working but with Kidd/Felton defenders will surely choose to go under the pick (statistically best defense) and who knows. The year Melo’s Nuggets went to WCF Billups and JR were both shooting around 40% from 3. Nothing we can do about the PG position at this stage but maybe we could get lucky at SG.

    59. Zanzibar

      @64 Sorry my previous response was more of a reply to jon abbey’s comment. Regarding Felton/Amare P&R, Amare was 2 years younger and healthier, and the floor was completely spread for him. Now you’ve got Tyson’s defender lurking. And for the P&R to be sustainable, Felton has to be able to knock down long 2s when defenders go under the screen. I’m not at all sure he will prove to be that reliable a shooter over an entire season. Felton and Kidd are wildcards to me in terms of 3pt shooting. Kidd being 40 at playoff time is a concern and Felton could end up like Bibby or Baron neither of whom we expected to be as bad as they turned out. On the positive side, I do expect JR’s percentage to rise over last season. Would it really surprise you if JR were the only one in our backcourt to shoot over 35%? Accordingly, I just would feel a whole lot better with a Bell or Pietrus at SG along with JR than a raw and recovering Shump or Brewer.

    60. JK47

      @65

      Probably not a great sign that the Knicks are looking to “get lucky at SG” and there are nothing but veteran minimum guys left.

      This is not exactly a guard rotation that is gonna have people quaking in their boots:

      Knicks Guards, 2011-2012 TS%
      Kidd .524
      Smith .508
      Felton .491
      Shumpert .484
      Brewer .465
      Prigioni ????

      Either some dudes step it WAY up or that is going to be one of the most inefficient backcourts in the NBA.

    61. Brian Cronin

      @65

      Probably not a great sign that the Knicks are looking to “get lucky at SG” and there are nothing but veteran minimum guys left.

      This is not exactly a guard rotation that is gonna have people quaking in their boots:

      Knicks Guards, 2011-2012 TS%
      Kidd .524
      Smith .508
      Felton .491
      Shumpert .484
      Brewer .465
      Prigioni ????

      Either some dudes step it WAY up or that is going to be one of the most inefficient backcourts in the NBA.

      Oh, true, I don’t think that anyone expects the Knicks to be true competitors if Smith and Felton don’t rebound. I (and I imagine others, as well) think the chances are both will, though. But yeah, if Smith and Felton play in 2012-13 like they did in 2011-12, the Knicks are going to be…not screwed, exactly (as Melo can still win them games even with poor shooting from the backcourt, as seen last year), but they certainly won’t optimize their chances, that’s for sure.

    Comments are closed.