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Tuesday, July 22, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jul 18 2013)

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Dolan wanted to deal Shumpert, ESPN’s Stephen A. says (Thu, 18 Jul 2013 02:12:47 GMT)
    Iman Shumpert appears to be a budding young star for the Knicks. And, apparently owner James Dolan wanted to ship him out of town to teach him a lesson, according to ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith.    

  • [New York Post] Iman draws Dolan’s, Woody’s ire for early summer league exit (Thu, 18 Jul 2013 03:34:28 -0500)
    Whether Knicks owner James Dolan has forever soured on Iman Shumpert is unsubstantiated. What is crystal clear is Knicks coach Mike Woodson preferred Iman Shumpert had played more than just one game in the Las Vegas summer league.
    Shumpert arrived late and left early. The summer league was sandwiched between…

  • [New York Post] World Peace honors his dad with No. choice (Thu, 18 Jul 2013 03:30:08 -0500)
    Metta World Peace has decided on wearing his father’s high school number at Long Island City High — 51.
    World Peace had wanted to wear 15, which he donned at St. John’s and with the Lakers, but it has been retired by the Knicks twice for Earl Monroe and…

  • 74 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jul 18 2013)

    1. SeeWhyDee77

      I hope that rumor of Dolan wanting to trade Shump over a Summer League ‘disappointment’ isn’t true. If it is..God save the Knicks. To quote the man who supposedly half broke this story, and his good buddy Skip, for Dolan to be that petty would be asinine, asiten, asileven, asitwelve!!!!! Jeez! Don’t get me wrong, coach and owner have every reason to be upset with the kid for not wanting to stay and work on things coach wants him to work on in summer league. But trade him?? Is Dolan really foolish enough to believe Shumpert doesn’t have the requisite work ethic to evolve after seeng him work feverishly the last 2 years?? Say it ain’t so!!

    2. Brian Cronin

      You should always take SAS with a grain of salt, no doubt. I think the point here, though, is that Smith’s comments to Howard were ostensibly not intended to be aired, which makes them seem more believable. In other words, Smith had nothing to gain from lying to Howard in the moment. It was just two guys off of the record. That is why this story has gained some attention.

    3. Brian Cronin

      It’d be hilarious if the Knicks tried to sign Camby now that he is a free agent again. :)

    4. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, for some reason I thought buyouts were different but obviously they’re not, so yeah, they wouldn’t be able to get him (not that they would have gotten him back anyways, of course).

    5. thenamestsam

      Brian Cronin:
      You should always take SAS with a grain of salt, no doubt. I think the point here, though, is that Smith’s comments to Howard were ostensibly not intended to be aired, which makes them seem more believable. In other words, Smith had nothing to gain from lying to Howard in the moment. It was just two guys off of the record. That is why this story has gained some attention.

      The guy is an unbelievable gasbag but he has proved to have good sources in the past. I don’t take it too seriously because if it was a really big story SAS would have run with it or we would have heard something about it through another source. But it does seem likely that Dolan said something to that effect to a source for SAS (or a longer chain of communication). I doubt the entire thing is a fabrication because as you said it’s just a casual mention in an off the record conversation. There’s no incentive for him to make something up.

    6. Hubert

      Man, I was just doing to much thinking again and it got me all worried.

      I think this “2015 reset” so many people on here talk about is a crock of shit. 20 out of 30 teams will have $40mm+ in cap space. And all the action is set to happen in 2014, which is the year we SHOULD have set ourselves up for a reset but we foolishly gave every single player on our roster an extra year while bidding against ourselves.

      I’m becoming more and more convinced that Melo and LeBron will opt out and team up in 2014. I don’t think it will be the Lakers like so many are predicting. I think it will most likely be in Miami (unless Dwyane Wade’s knees worsen and he becomes untradeable), could be in Dallas, and we’re fucking idiots for not putting ourselves in position to make it happen here.

      God willing, maybe they both opt in for 2014 and they do this in summer of 2015, when we can actually do something about it. But NBA players don’t seem to like to waste years of their prime.

      I know, paranoid rantings and all. I just don’t see LeBron James content to play out the string with an aging Dwyane Wade, or Melo being exciting about opting in to go to war in 2015 with Amare and Bargnani again instead of his best friend in basketball.

    7. Brian Cronin

      I do agree that the whole 2015 reset is being overblown for the very reason you suggest, that the very nature of the new CBA is designed so that teams will be able to do resets more often, so it is not that the Knicks are doing some clever plan, but rather that everyone is doing the same thing.

      That said, I just don’t buy Melo screwing the Knicks over. I get plenty of players screwing their teams over, I just don’t think a guy who forced his way to New York would ever just dick over New York and leave like that. When has a player ever engineered a move to a specific team and then dicked that team over just four years later? I can’t think of any examples. Howard, for instance, didn’t insist on the Lakers, they were just the team he got. Lebron leaving Miami, for instance, would be an example of this – if that happens, I’d be shocked. But there he at least won two titles (maybe three by the end of next season) so it’s not like he left them without winning a title. So I’d be shocked if Melo pushed his way out of New York. I just don’t see it happening.

    8. flossy

      Melo’s entire reputation is so tied up in being The Man and “coming home” and all that. I’m sure he understands that he’d lose every basketball fan’s respect if he ditched out of New York a year early to ride LeBron’s coattails to a championship.

    9. DRed

      Carmelo is a winner and a champion and a top 5 player in the league, and if the Knicks can’t find the second scorer he needs to win his ring, well, he should take his talents somewhere else.

    10. Juany8

      Lebron is the same pussy who left back to back 60 win teams to go team up with two top 20 players in an awesome climate. Pretty sure he’d do it again if he saw the opportunity, although there is a chance he’s matured and won’t do stupid shit like the decision again. Melo on the other hand, forced his way to a non contending team near where he grew up and went to college, and he made no pretense of staying the way Howard and Lebron did. I don’t know what he’s thinking obviously, but I think he has a special attachment here, and would only leave if the Knicks started tanking or something (look at Steve Nash)

      Will be interesting to see, although I don’t think he opts out unless it’s to sign his next contract here. If ruru is right about melo’s intentions, he could actually be lowering his yearly salary, although I have my doubts.

    11. Brian Cronin

      But Lebron didn’t pick the Cavs. He picked the Heat. It is rare for star players to actually pick a team and then ditch them. Shaq, for instance, didn’t ditch the Lakers. T-Mac is the only example I can think of. And as you know from watching him for so many years, T-Mac is a…unique personality. ;)

      I think the best bet for Melo is that he doesn’t opt out and then re-signs in 2015 for a reduced salary, but I just don’t think “reduced salary” has the same impact that ruru was suggesting it would have. In other words, I think he opts to make $20 million instead of $25 million, ya know? Which is still helpful, of course, just not that helpful.

    12. Juany8

      DRed:
      Carmelo is a winner and a champion and a top 5 player in the league, and if the Knicks can’t find the second scorer he needs to win his ring, well, he should take his talents somewhere else.

      You realize that Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, and deron Williams have won the same number of series total since leaving their teams as the Knicks? And all of zero wins in the second round. So yea, Melo probably needs a better max player than Amare to be a serious favorite to win the title. Of course so does every single other top 5 player, including Lebron, who got himself two.

    13. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      I think best bet for Melo is that he doesn’t opt out and then re-signs in 2015 for a reduced salary, but I just don’t think “reduced salary” has the same impact that ruru was suggesting it would have. In other words, I think he opts to make $20 million instead of $25 million, ya know? Which is still helpful, of course, just not that helpful.

      If Amare is gone, and the cap is clean, it would be the difference between a mid level player and a vet min player. Won’t get the Knicks another star but it could bet then a solid contributor

    14. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, agreed. It definitely will be a helpful move by him. I just don’t think we’ll see him, like, taking $15 million or something like that, ya know?

    15. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      But Lebron didn’t pick the Cavs. He picked the Heat. It is rare for star players to actually pick a team and then ditch them. Shaq, for instance, didn’t ditch the Lakers. T-Mac is the only example I can think of.

      I think the best bet for Melo is that he doesn’t opt out and then re-signs in 2015 for a reduced salary, but I just don’t think “reduced salary” has the same impact that ruru was suggesting it would have. In other words, I think he opts to make $20 million instead of $25 million, ya know? Which is still helpful, of course, just not that helpful.

      I think it matters why he left, if all he wanted to do was win championships with his friends in a nice climate, the lakers might be able to provide that. I think Lebron would have gone to any team that had the room to get him, wade, and bosh, and Miami was the only one. I obviously don’t know the guy so I can’t say for sure, but considering how hard the cavs tried to keep him happy only to be bitch slapped on national television, I don’t think Lebron would have any problem ditching Miami to have a better chance of winning championships. Of course there’s a good chance Miami will provide him that chance, so it would become a moot point. He’s not leaving if he’s the 3 time defending champion

    16. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      Yeah, agreed. It definitely will be a helpful move by him. I just don’t think we’ll see him, like, taking $15 million or something like that, ya know?

      Yea absolutely not, it would be historical if he did and these guys aren’t THAT unselfish. They know they can be dumped just as easily as they dump teams.

    17. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, exactly. Hell, Lebron/Wade/Bosh got all that credit for taking salary cuts and their cuts were like, $2.5 million a year (and that’s not even taking into account Florida’s beneficial income tax laws).

      These guys want to help, but they’re not going to go nuts. Stuff like Westbrook signing an extension for the max when if he waited he would have been eligible for the larger max (due to Westbrook making his second All-NBA team that year) is the kind of thing we’re looking at as likely for someone like Melo trying to help the Knicks when he resigns.

    18. Hubert

      flossy:
      Melo’s entire reputation is so tied up in being The Man and “coming home” and all that.I’m sure he understands that he’d lose every basketball fan’s respect if he ditched out of New York a year early to ride LeBron’s coattails to a championship.

      This isn’t a bad argument. But LeBron’s entire reputation was tied up in being Ohio’s loyal hometown hero, and he walked away from that.

      If Melo screwed the Knicks, he’d get shit for it for a couple months, then he’d win a few titles and get over it.

      (FYI, I heard this argument on Mike & Mike this morning, that they would be one of the best, most complementary 1-2 punches in league history, hence why I randomly brought it up.)

    19. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      Yeah, exactly. Hell, Lebron/Wade/Bosh got all that credit for taking salary cuts and their cuts were like, $2.5 million a year (and that’s not even taking into account Florida’s beneficial income tax laws).

      These guys want to help, but they’re not going to go nuts. Stuff like Westbrook signing for the max when if he waited he would have been eligible for the larger max (due to Westbrook making his second All-NBA team that year) is the kind of thing we’re looking at as likely for someone like Melo trying to help the Knicks when he resigns.

      Speaking of which, harden was trade precisely because he wouldn’t take a $5 million dollar paycut. It is really rare to see NBA players leave any kind of serious money on the table

    20. Brian Cronin

      Especially when it is their first big payday, like Harden with OKC.

      That’s why the Knicks got “lucky” by JR having such a shitty playoffs. If he had a good playoffs, teams would have made him offers he would not have turned down, as he’s never had a big payday. And he still hasn’t had a big payday.

    21. flossy

      Hubert: But LeBron’s entire reputation was tied up in being Ohio’s loyal hometown hero, and he walked away from that.

      He didn’t force his way to Ohio in the first place. It was a happy accident that he ended up drafted by his local team, who went on to utterly fail to add any pieces of consequence around him (Antawn Jamison, really?).

    22. Brian Cronin

      Agreed. I think there is a difference when a player specifically chooses a team, like Melo with New York, Shaq with L.A., STAT with the Knicks, etc. If Lebron had signed with Cleveland, it’d be different.

    23. Hubert

      flossy: He didn’t force his way to Ohio in the first place.It was a happy accident that he ended up drafted by his local team, who went on to utterly fail to add any pieces of consequence around him (Antawn Jamison, really?).

      Do you really think Carmelo Anthony is going to make that distinction when weighing his options?

    24. flossy

      Juany8: Speaking of which, harden was trade precisely because he wouldn’t take a $5 million dollar paycut.

      I wouldn’t say that–I’d say it’s because OKC was too cheap to pay him what he is obviously worth. Why would you ask a 23 year old to take a significant discount on their first non-rookie contract? Just so your massively successful team stays out of the luxury tax? Just so you don’t have to amnesty Kendrick Perkins? I mean, come on.

    25. Brian Cronin

      Juany8 wasn’t saying that OKC was justified in asking him to take the paycut, just that that’s why they dealt him.

    26. flossy

      Hubert: Do you really think Carmelo Anthony is going to make that distinction when weighing his options?

      Yes? It’s one thing to leave the team that drafted you; it’s another thing to leave the team that drafted you because you say you want to lead your hometown team to a championship only to bail on your hometown team a few years later because winning there was too hard and you’d rather move to Miami or LA to be LeBron’s sidekick.

    27. er

      Juany8:It is really rare to see NBA players leave any kind of serious money on the table

      Right, fans generally lose perspective. This is a Job for them and entertainment for us. All of us would love max dollars too!!! lol

    28. Hubert

      Switching from paranoid to delirious…maybe they’re both opting in for 2014 and Melo has a plan to bring him here.

      I do agree that, of the two, I think Melo probably would be the one more reluctant to leave. LeBron I could easily see picking up and moving again.

    29. er

      flossy: I wouldn’t say that–I’d say it’s because OKC was too cheap to pay him what he is obviously worth.Why would you ask a 23 year old to take a significant discount on their first non-rookie contract?Just so your massively successful team stays out of the luxury tax?Just so you don’t have to amnesty Kendrick Perkins?I mean, come on.

      i still dont think they have taken enough grief for that decision

    30. Hubert

      Hubert:
      Switching from paranoid to delirious…maybe they’re both opting in for 2014 and Melo has a plan to bring him here.

      in 2015, I mean.

      But surely I can’t be the only person who thinks some sort of major reshuffling of the deck is coming up, right?

    31. Juany8

      er: i still dont think they have taken enough grief for that decision

      I’m still in shock that they just left Martin walk when he got a very reasonable deal from Minnesota. Add that in with brooks refusing to play his rookies, and the deal is starting to look like a nightmare in hindsight. If you were just gonna let his replacement go, why not just keep harden and try to squeeze a championship out of that squad?

    32. Juany8

      Of course it still wasn’t as bad as Dallas punting in their title defense to go chase d will and Howard. They would have been the favorites

    33. Brian Cronin

      And how about how OKC’s trade of Harden led directly to Howard choosing Houston? So they not only made themselves worse they also made another team in their conference a lot better.

    34. Juany8

      You know what, Miami is easily the luckiest 2 time champion in the history of the NBA. Maybe the 94-95 rockets since Michael Jordan went out, but still, last year Rose was out if the playoffs when the bulls were the biggest threat in the East, as well as Dallas just giving away their title defense. Then OKC looks poised to be their biggest threat, only they give away James harden and Westbrook gets injured when the thunder had the best differential in the league in the tougher conference. Rose is still out, limiting his threats in the east, and even then they were a few seconds away from losing to the spurs, who are building around a player they drafted 15 years ago. How hard is it to win titles when you collude to get awesome players at cheaper prices and all your opponents are either injured or making stupid moves?

    35. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      And how about how OKC’s trade of Harden led directly to Howard choosing Houston? So they not only made themselves worse they also made another team in their conference a lot better.

      Look I’m a Houston fan so I want to get excited, but unless the rockets get something good for asik they aren’t going to improve as dramatically as people are assuming. Asik was an excellent player last year, and Howard needs to show that he can go back to being a top 5 player in the league. People are getting too caught up in the hype, just like last year when morey was a genius for trading crap for the number 5 pick… Only it happened because the number 5 pick was crap himself, turns out the move didnt do anything.

      Sounds really nice to say that the rockets are building around the best center in the league, an awesome wing scorer, and the number 5 pick in last year’s draft, but the truth is that it will probably take them a while to get good. This all changes if they someone trade asik for LaMarcus Aldridge of course.

    36. flossy

      Juany8:
      You know what, Miami is easily the luckiest 2 time champion in the history of the NBA. Maybe the 94-95 rockets since Michael Jordan went out, but still, last year Rose was out if the playoffs when the bulls were the biggest threat in the East, as well as Dallas just giving away their title defense. Then OKC looks poised to be their biggest threat, only they give away James harden and Westbrook gets injured when the thunder had the best differential in the league in the tougher conference. Rose is still out, limiting his threats in the east, and even then they were a few seconds away from losing to the spurs, who are building around a player they drafted 15 years ago. How hard is it to win titles when you collude to get awesome players at cheaper prices and all your opponents are either injured or making stupid moves?

      To be fair, the one time Miami did play Chicago in the playoffs with Rose, they destroyed the Bulls. I’m not sure I’d have favored Dallas to win another Finals series against Miami, either, or even to get to the Finals again even if they’d kept Chandler.

    37. yellowboy90

      Also, if the Knicks want to get LeBron or someone special in 14 they could always use the stretch provision on Amare and Bargs right? Who knows maybe one or both have good years and become trade assets as expiring contracts. Then trade Tyson for s tpe and future picks and you have room in 14 to get a top player.

    38. Juany8

      flossy: To be fair, the one time Miami did play Chicago in the playoffs with Rose, they destroyed the Bulls.I’m not sure I’d have favored Dallas to win another Finals series against Miami, either, or even to get to the Finals again even if they’d kept Chandler.

      And to be fair, I think the 94 and 95 rockets could have beaten Jordan’s bulls those years, they had no one to guard Hakeem. But still, that’s pretty damn lucky. As is the fact that Lebron was about 5 seconds away from being 1 for 5 in the finals.

    39. thenamestsam

      flossy: To be fair, the one time Miami did play Chicago in the playoffs with Rose, they destroyed the Bulls.I’m not sure I’d have favored Dallas to win another Finals series against Miami, either, or even to get to the Finals again even if they’d kept Chandler.

      Yeah I don’t think they would have been close to favorites. For one both Miami and OKC improved a ton in that intervening year – OKC with age and Miami because of a clearer defining of system and roles within that system. And Dallas would likely have taken a step back either way – they were old and a bunch of their guys played at least slightly over their heads during that run.

      Miami has definitely had plenty of luck in their run but to call them “the luckiest 2 time champion in the history of the NBA” would seem to require at least some examination of the factors that impacted the other teams on that list, not just those that impacted Miami. I feel as though those other factors tend to fade over time so that they seem a lot more important in discussion of recent champions. Simmons wrote about the titles that he thought had the biggest asterisks during last year’s playoffs:

      http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7883334/the-footnote-title

    40. thenamestsam

      Juany8: And to be fair, I think the 94 and 95 rockets could have beaten Jordan’s bulls those years, they had no one to guard Hakeem. But still, that’s pretty damn lucky. As is the fact that Lebron was about 5 seconds away from being 1 for 5 in the finals.

      I have to say the “1 for 4 (it’s 4) in finals” thing is a really silly measure of things. Would Lebron’s career have been somehow better if he hadn’t carried a stunningly mediocre Cleveland team (seriously go check that roster) past Detroit into a series they had no chance of winning against an extremely strong Spurs team?

    41. johnno

      How come no one has pointed out the obvious — the ESPN story that a Lakers front office “source” has told ESPN that they are going after LBJ and Melo is a complete fabrication? It is obvious that they would LIKE to go after them, but does anyone seriously believe that, with tampering rules being what they are, the Lakers would be stupid enough to actually tell a reporter that and risk sanctions from the league? And does anyone really believe that, if a loudmouth like SAS really had inside information (he made it sound as if he actually talked to Dolan himself about it!) that Dolan wanted to trade Shumpert, he wouldn’t have been screaming about it on the air immediately? Give me a break. That was obviously him spouting fabricated nonsense.
      P.S. The Knicks summer league team is truly brutal…

    42. johnno

      thenamestsam: stunningly mediocre Cleveland team

      You are giving that team far too much credit. Calling that roster mediocre is an insult to mediocre rosters everywhere.

    43. Juany8

      thenamestsam: I have to say the “1 for 4 (it’s 4) in finals” thing is a really silly measure of things. Would Lebron’s career have been somehow better if he hadn’t carried a stunningly mediocre Cleveland team (seriously go check that roster) past Detroit into a series they had no chance of winning against an extremely strong Spurs team?

      Yea but he shot awful and got absolutely shut down. Was maybe the 5th best player in that series. That shouldn’t get ignored

    44. Juany8

      Losing in the finals doesn’t make you bad, but playing awful does. Lebron has been terrible in half his finals, and yet people remember Kobe’s 6-24 game even though he actually won the championship. Doesn’t take away from his accomplishments these past 2 years, but it does bear mentioning considering people are already comparing him to Jordan.

    45. JK47

      So what if Melo leaves? Just sign Ronnie Brewer to a vet minimum contract and the team will Produce more Wins anyway.

    46. thenamestsam

      Juany8:
      Losing in the finals doesn’t make you bad, but playing awful does. Lebron has been terrible in half his finals, and yet people remember Kobe’s 6-24 game even though he actually won the championship. Doesn’t take away from his accomplishments these past 2 years, but it does bear mentioning considering people are already comparing him to Jordan.

      So you think it would have been more impressive if he had lost in the previous round than getting to the finals and playing poorly? That’s silly. Playing poorly is always a bad thing but there’s no reason top put some crazy extra weight on the finals. Lebron’s postseason achievements in both years he lost in the finals were still excellent overall. And yet people only like to talk about the poor finals.

      Juany8: Yea but he shot awful and got absolutely shut down. Was maybe the 5th best player in that series. That shouldn’t get ignored

      Yeah he shot awful. Beating a team 1 on 5 is extremely difficult, especially when it’s an excellent team that is extremely well coached and has a great plan to beat you. They packed the paint and forced Lebron to try to beat them with jumpers since he didn’t have a single other teammate you even had to consider guarding. His jumper was a clear weakness in his game at that time and even against Dallas a couple years ago. He has had to improve that part of his game a lot.

    47. thenamestsam

      Hubert: Of all the tripe he’s ever written, that article was the tripest.

      No way is that the tripest, c’mon. Have you ever read any of his PED stuff?

      But seriously I was just making the point that every championship is affected by injuries, player movement, weird shit, etc. The Heat ones may seem notable but I really think that’s only b/c it’s so recent that everyone instantly remembers all of the random little quirks when they wouldn’t if we started talking about the 1960 title, or the 1980 one, or even the 2000 one.

      Also when we’re discussing whether the Heat are the luckiest team ever or whatever we should probably note that their only quality big had a fairly serious injury during last year’s playoffs and a minor one during this one and that Wade was also hurt in both runs (although this may be approaching a chronic condition at this point). Plus Miller and Haslem were both decimated by injuries (on a much less deep team) in Year 1 after the decision.

    48. Zanzibar

      In a decade, nobody’s gonna remember or care about the circumstances under which Melo arrived in NYC except a few of you guys but the basketball world will know and remind us that Melo never won a ring. Ask Barkley and Malone if you have any doubts. Does Melo constantly want to hear that he’s a talented scorer who never made his teammates better and never won a ring? LeBron gives him the best chance of winning that chip. LeBron’s not tied to Miami, the Heat have used their amnesty, Battier (a key and underrated part of that team) is aging, Allen looked like a Kidd for much of that series, and Wade’s health is a primary issue. I’d say if Wade’s got a chronic condition, LeBron probably leaves – either Cleveland or LA (if he is joined by another hungry star). Lebron and Melo are fairly close and Kobe’s on record in the past as saying Melo’s his toughest cover and he’s the guy he’d most like on his team. Melo’s primary attachment to NYC is the fact that it’s a media center and, if he opts out, the Knicks can give him a 5 versus 4 year contract. Are we gonna offer Melo a 5 year max deal in 2014? Probably, but I hope not. He may stay for that reason alone. Folks – follow the money and the rings, everything else is just noise.

    49. flossy

      Zanzibar: Does Melo constantly want to hear that he’s a talented scorer who never made his teammates better and never won a ring?

      Does riding LeBron’s coattails on the mercenary title-chasing tour change that? Would he rather hear that he’s a talented scorer who never made his teammates better and had to hitch a ride on the LeBron train in order to get a ring?

    50. Zanzibar

      flossy: Does riding LeBron’s coattails on the mercenary title-chasing tour change that?Would he rather hear that he’s a talented scorer who never made his teammates better and had to hitch a ride on the LeBron train in order to get a ring?

      I think the possession of the ring trumps how it was achieved so long as Melo’s not a 40yo on a vet min contract. Even with LeBron, Melo would be a key factor in winning a chip. Having a ring is a binary function – you’ve either got one or not. The narrative for LeBron had the Heat lost to Spurs would have been dramatically different. Now all’s that matters is he’s got 2 rings and is 2-2 in NBA finals.

    51. Hubert

      Paul Pierce seems excited to be a Net: “We have no choice but to figure this out and make this work.”

      Y’all know those two just did this for the money, right?

    52. Hubert

      Zanzibar:
      In a decade, nobody’s gonna remember or care about the circumstances under which Melo arrived in NYC except a few of you guys but the basketball world will know and remind us that Melo never won a ring.

      I agree. And I don’t think the fact that he engineered a move here will be even a tiny factor in his decision. Whoever gives him the most money and the best chance to win, wins.

    53. Hubert

      flossy: Does riding LeBron’s coattails on the mercenary title-chasing tour change that?Would he rather hear that he’s a talented scorer who never made his teammates better and had to hitch a ride on the LeBron train in order to get a ring?

      He wouldn’t think he was riding LeBron’s coattails. In fact, he’d probably be the leading scorer on those teams.

    54. maxwell_3g

      Hubert:
      Man, I was just doing to much thinking again and it got me all worried.

      I think this “2015 reset” so many people on here talk about is a crock of shit. 20 out of 30 teams will have $40mm+ in cap space.And all the action is set to happen in 2014, which is the year we SHOULD have set ourselves up for a reset but we foolishly gave every single player on our roster an extra year while bidding against ourselves.

      I’m becoming more and more convinced that Melo and LeBron will opt out and team up in 2014.I don’t think it will be the Lakers like so many are predicting.I think it will most likely be in Miami (unless Dwyane Wade’s knees worsen and he becomes untradeable), could be in Dallas, and we’re fucking idiots for not putting ourselves in position to make it happen here.

      God willing, maybe they both opt in for 2014 and they do this in summer of 2015, when we can actually do something about it.But NBA players don’t seem to like to waste years of their prime.

      I know, paranoid rantings and all.I just don’t see LeBron James content to play out the string with an aging Dwyane Wade, or Melo being exciting about opting in to go to war in 2015 with Amare and Bargnani again instead of his best friend in basketball.

      let me say this. if melo wants to go to Miami after making such a stink to get here…good riddance. I wont mind at all. I am sick of nba players being such pu$$ies and shying away from real competition against eachother. im not saying that melo is this type, but if he is, I really wouldn’t want him on the team anyway.

    55. maxwell_3g

      Hubert:
      Switching from paranoid to delirious…maybe they’re both opting in for 2014 and Melo has a plan to bring him here.

      I do agree that, of the two, I think Melo probably would be the one more reluctant to leave.LeBron I could easily see picking up and moving again.

      don’t want him. I have never seen a knicks title with my own eyes. ive waited this long. when we win it, I want us to earn it. don’t want anything to do with lebron

    56. jon abbey

      maxwell_3g: don’t want him.I have never seen a knicks title with my own eyes.ive waited this long.when we win it, I want us to earn it.don’t want anything to do with lebron

      what does ‘earn it’ mean? nurture all 15 players from pre-school? how would winning it with Melo be any better than winning it with LeBron?

    57. maxwell_3g

      jon abbey: what does ‘earn it’ mean? nurture all 15 players from pre-school? how would winning it with Melo be any better than winning it with LeBron?

      I understand your point about melo and I would say that it is a matter of degree. that being said, signing LeBron (who has already won 2 titles with another team) to win a title for us would def not be earning it. your attempt to extend my point of view to an absurd conclusion is ridiculous. How about an actual Knick (which melo may or may not be by them, but lebron certainly is not and will never be) lead our team to our first title in a long time

    58. Keniman Shumpwalker

      maxwell_3g: I understand your point about melo and I would say that it is a matter of degree.that being said, signing LeBron (who has already won 2 titles with another team) to win a title for us would def not be earning it.your attempt to extend my point of view to an absurd conclusion is ridiculous.How about an actual Knick (which melo may or may not be by them, but lebron certainly is not and will never be) lead our team to our first title in a long time

      Okay…1) Maxwell is a great name. It’s my name and my youngest son’s name. 2) Respectfully, I think this is a crazy, stubborn point of view. I get it: it’s awesome and fun and pride inducng to support a mainly home grown team. Fine. Great. But the fact is, player movement, trades, free agency, “mercenaries”, journeymen…that’s a part of the game now. And winning a ‘chip by having the best players, no matter how they’re acquired, should be enough to satisfy a long suffering Knicks fan (or any long suffering fan, for that matter).

    59. jon abbey

      personally I would rather the Knicks win a title with LeBron than Melo, I have always liked his game way more. neither of those things is going to happen, though.

    60. jon abbey

      and I don’t really get how anyone in any American professional sport is “homegrown”, maybe baseball players because of the farm system. I get it in the Olympics or WBC or World Cup, but unless Woodson is coaching these guys from when they were 8, the concept really seems silly to me.

    61. Brian Cronin

      Agreed. I don’t care how the Knicks put their team together – if it won a title, I’d be pleased with that team (even if I disagreed with the moves when they were made). They could throw out a lineup of Brandon Jennings, Jamal Crawford, Rudy Gay, Michael Beasley and Hasheem Thabeet and if they won a title I’d be pumped about that team.

    62. Keniman Shumpwalker

      jon abbey:
      and I don’t really get how anyone in any American professional sport is “homegrown”, maybe baseball players because of the farm system. I get it in the Olympics or WBC or World Cup, but unless Woodson is coaching these guys from when they were 8, the concept really seems silly to me.

      Exactly this. Baseball and hockey can lay claim to truly “homegrown” athletes because both sports work off of extensive farm systems in which a player can be drafted and groomed and followed from the jump. It doesn’t work that way in the NBA and the NFL. If the Broncos win a super bowl because they traded for Peyton Manning, that doesn’t make the title less meaningful than it would if they had drafted him, at least IMO.

    63. Keniman Shumpwalker

      jon abbey:
      personally I would rather the Knicks win a title with LeBron than Melo, I have always liked his game way more. neither of those things is going to happen, though.

      And I agree with this as well. I may not love LeBron’s personality, certainly don’t ever want to have a beer with the guy and shoot the shit, but I can say the same thing about Melo and, while I’m no Melo hater, I prefer LeBron’s style of play to Melo’s and that’s not really saying much. If you love basketball it’s kind of hard not to love the way LeBron plays the game (flopping antics aside).

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