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Thursday, July 24, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jul 04 2013)

  • [New York Daily News] Source: Knicks finalizing deal to bring back J.R. Smith (Thu, 04 Jul 2013 01:48:21 GMT)
    J.R. Smith and the Knicks are finalizing a contract extension that will keep the NBA’s reigning Sixth Man of the Year with the club for another four years. According to a Knicks source, the deal could be completed by Thursday.    

  • [New York Times] Celtics Hire Butler’s Brad Stevens as Coach (Thu, 04 Jul 2013 07:40:17 GMT)
    Butler’s historic Hinkle Fieldhouse couldn’t compete with the Boston Garden and all those NBA championship banners hanging from its rafters.    

  • [New York Times] Knicks and Nets’ Plans Complicated by Suddenly Expensive Wing Players (Thu, 04 Jul 2013 03:50:44 GMT)
    An overheated market for free-agent shooting guards and small forwards means the Knicks and the Nets might not get the players they had been hoping to sign.    

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Basketball: Ginobili Says He’s Staying With the Spurs (Thu, 04 Jul 2013 03:25:30 GMT)
    Manu Ginobili, who said earlier that he would think about retirement after the playoffs, wrote Wednesday on Twitter, “I’m gonna stay with the Spurs for two more years.”    

  • [New York Times] Celtics Hire Butler’s Brad Stevens as Coach (Thu, 04 Jul 2013 02:52:17 GMT)
    The Green are getting greener.    

  • [New York Times] Celtics, in Bold Move, Hire Butler’s Stevens (Thu, 04 Jul 2013 01:23:20 GMT)
    In a daring hire, the Boston Celtics on Wednesday named Brad Stevens, 36, of Butler University to replace Doc Rivers, making Stevens the N.B.A.’s youngest head coach.    

  • [New York Times] Stevens Goes From Mid-Major to Major Leagues (Thu, 04 Jul 2013 01:16:30 GMT)
    Brad Stevens is going from a mid-major to the major leagues.    

  • [New York Times] Celtics Appoint Stevens as Head Coach (Thu, 04 Jul 2013 00:25:05 GMT)
    The Boston Celtics have hired Brad Stevens to become their 17th head coach as they look to rebuild a franchise that has won a record 17 National Basketball Association (NBA) titles, the team said on Thursday.    

  • [New York Times] Column: Dwight Howard, Yes, but How About Collins? (Thu, 04 Jul 2013 00:02:24 GMT)
    The Los Angeles Lakers want Dwight Howard so badly they put up billboards urging him to stay in town, then got Kobe Bryant and Steve Nash to get on bended knee before him.    

  • 102 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jul 04 2013)

    1. custer

      Stevens is a real good coach, but man some of those Butler teams were unwatchable. Be interesting to see if he tries to use that same grind-it-out style for the C’s.

    2. Juany8

      custer:
      Stevens is a real good coach, but man some of those Butler teams were unwatchable. Be interesting to see if he tries to use that same grind-it-out style for the C’s.

      Will they have a choice? Their players are all athletic guys who can run around and that’s pretty much it. Rondo is going to have zero motivation this year too so they should be searching like mad for a trade partner, after which they can tank with Jeff green and Avery Bradley as two nice pieces to build with going forward. I wouldn’t trade him till closer to the deadline though, just to make sure you don’t get a player back who might help you win games lol

    3. yellowboy90

      I hope the telfair rumors are not true. I might be ok with Toney D. returning over S.T. About 2 million left in the mmle to sway a older vet who are getting minimum offers is not bad.

    4. yellowboy90

      Per JR’s agent, Leon Rose, the deal is done at 4 yrs and 24m. I know some fans are upset at the 4 yrs but I am not Jr will still have value and could also increase his value if his shooting returns to form and he grows up off the court.

      I just hopes he dedicates the summer improving. Is their a camp for wings like the Hakeem Camp? lol. Bump that someone get Jr smith Tim Grover’s number.

    5. Z-man

      Well, I guess he’s better than what else is available at what we can afford, so it’s all good. And there is something to be said for keeping the “core” together. It will also take pressure off of Shump and THJ to take over the scoring SG role.

      I wonder whether Jerome Jordan can be a legit back-up C for us. Can he be the Hibbert of 2 years ago? If we don’t get Brand, we don’t have many other options. He’s certainly got the size. In that case, I hope we sign him before someone else does.

    6. Z-man

      I want no part of either Telfair or TD. I’d rather we take a flier on Bobby Brown or some other D-Leaguer or Euro guy.

    7. yellowboy90

      Z-man:
      I want no part of either Telfair or TD. I’d rather we take a flier on Bobby Brown or some other D-Leaguer or Euro guy.

      Someone said Brown was just a stat stuffer and not a good teammate but that was just one fans perspective who watched him play. With Dallas bringing in Mekel from Israel I wouldn’t mind if the Knicks bought the rights to Nick Calathes. I am sure they can find someone in Europe or in the states better than Telfair.

    8. yellowboy90

      Would Cope risk a staying with the knicks at a reduce price to get a early bird rights deal in the future?

    9. ptmilo

      In the normal case, seeing the Knicks sign an unhelpful player like Telfair to a min K is no big deal. But in this case, I am worried that Woodson will repeat the disastrous mistake of under-using Prigioni. Camby’s post season comments have made it clear that at least from his perspective, his total lack of playing time was more Woodson’s doing than injuries. Camby can be very annoying to coach, I realize, as he more than occasionally goes all Anthony Randolph and an unilaterally decides to play cover two when the call is man. But this absolutely doesn’t render him the defensive liability that a guy like Randolph can be — he is often fairly effective anyway in my opinion — and I think particularly with the way Chandler was playing late last year it was a terrible move to bench Camby if he was reasonably healthy.

      These two things make me worried about peripheral signings like Telfair. It also makes me less excited for the Knicks to go after a guy like Brandan Wright, who I think could really help the Knicks, because he suffers from Camby-like wandering and could get buried on the bench. Other than the obvious (Chandler reverting and Stoudemire playing 2000 minutes), Prigs resigning and getting a lot more playing time is one of the best things that could happen to the Knicks. They will need his defense with the forwards they’re fielding.

    10. ptmilo

      yellowboy90:
      Would Cope risk a staying with the knicks at a reduce price to get a early bird rights deal in the future?

      I think the answer has to be no. Or least the value of that option for Cope is about ten bucks. When you are a 29 year old who is several months removed from a sub 10% chance of ever having a legitimate NBA contract, about the last thing you want to do is trade some certainty for optionality.

    11. mokers

      Z-man:
      Anyone think DeJuan Blair would be a good option, and could we afford him?

      I think he said he was looking for something more than the mMLE.

      Also, I want to keep cope, but if he gets a contract worth 3 or 4 million a year, he has to take it. It sucks because we found him, but I think Knick fans will always root for the guy.

      If Prigs and JR are coming back, the next step has to be a another big man who can defend 4s and 5s. If Chandler tweaks something or gets his 10,000th bout with the flu, we have to have something other than Bargs there. If we have somebody who Woody has a little confidence in, we might actually be able to avoid playing Melo at the 4 against Boozer and West.

    12. alsep73

      Yeah, Cope has to take the biggest possible paycheck he can get, as it may be the only big one of his career. And if we’re giving Prigs half the mini-MLE, then Cope is absolutely gone.

      The other thing about the JR contract — beyond the fact that that amount of money was only available to us to sign this specific player — is that it’s reasonable enough in both years and dollars that he can be moved down the road, if necessary.

    13. Loathing

      mokers: I think he said he was looking for something more than the mMLE.

      Also, I want to keep cope, but if he gets a contract worth 3 or 4 million a year, he has to take it. It sucks because we found him, but I think Knick fans will always root for the guy.

      If Prigs and JR are coming back, the next step has to be a another big man who can defend 4s and 5s. If Chandler tweaks something or gets his 10,000th bout with the flu, we have to have something other than Bargs there. If we have somebody who Woody has a little confidence in, we might actually be able to avoid playing Melo at the 4 against Boozer and West.

      In other words, you want the Knicks to re-sign Kenyon Martin.

    14. MJG1789

      Dejuan Blair would be interesting at the right price. He is defensively challenged somewhat, and commits stupid fouls, but he is a pretty effective scorer and rebounds hard. Kind of a trick or treat player, but a guy who can put points in a hurry and does all his work in the paint.

    15. massive

      I actually really want us to sign Bobby Brown. I think he’ll at least be as good as the Telfair/Watson/Bynum options out there with the potential to be a really valuable player for us.

      Barnes/Brand would also be really good for us, but we should keep Kenyon Martin. He is probably the only option we have at back-up center that we know for a fact will be good. There wouldn’t be a huge drop-off between him and Tyson, and that’s important with Melo/Bargs/Stat as our power forward rotation.

    16. Loathing

      massive:

      and that’s important with Melo/Bargs/Stat as our power forward rotation.

      …yikes….50 million committed to one position.

    17. JK47

      Some front court bangers are a must. Right now the roster looks like this:

      Guards: Felton, Prigioni, Smith, Shumpert, Hardaway
      Forwards: Anthony, Stoudemire, Bargnani, Leslie
      Centers: Chandler

      We seem pretty set at guard, other than bringing in a third-string PG. It looks like the two-PG attack is going to be a thing of the past, huh?

      It would be great if we could bring back both K-Mart and sign Elton Brand, but I guess it’s probably going to be one or the other. I’m still a big Matt Barnes advocate but I doubt he’d be available for what the Knicks have left of the MLE.

    18. Sibenik

      I think we should resign K-Mart, looks like the team is waiting for Elton Brand and, while we do it, we could lose Martin. I also think that having Jeffries back too won’t hurt, he wants to be back, always plays hard, never complains if he doesn’t play, and will be an insurance against injuries (Stat, Bargnani, Chandler…).

    19. ess-dog

      I guess the Knicks just had to show JR they wanted him badly enough.
      I can’t fault the Knicks for signing him at that price. Looks like we’re getting most of the gang back.
      Considering the age and injury history of many of our guys, how we fill out the end of the bench will be crucial.
      I’m not pumped about Telfair. Why not give Brown a try? GG seems to have a good eye with his euro pickups.
      Otherwise, get Kmart back, if you can. It would be great to get him and Brand, but I think we’ll have to choose. So:

      Prig/Ray
      Shump/JR/TH2
      Melo/Leslie
      Amare/Bargs/
      Tyson/Brand or Kmart

      Back up big like Jerome Jordan would be nice. Another pg would be nice (not Telfair) and maybe a sweet shooting 3.

    20. JK47

      I’d much rather have Aaron Brooks as the third PG than Telfair.

      Some other names of interest that are still out there who might be available on the cheap:
      Randy Foye
      Chris Wilcox
      Charlie Villanueva
      Cole Aldrich
      DJ Augustin
      Zaza Pachulia
      Nate Robinson
      Brandan Wright

    21. Douglas

      yellowboy90: Someone said Brown was just a stat stuffer and not a good teammate but that was just one fans perspective who watched him play.

      So are you saying he was locker room…. POISOOOONNNNNNN?

    22. SeeWhyDee77

      Happy 4th yal. I just saw where Chris Broussard thinks the Knicks are only the 5th best team in the east. Now..I’m not tryina discount Indy..but u gotta think we are better than our 2nd round showing. Personally..I think injuries, JR losing his game, and Vogel doing ONE HELL OF A COACHING JOB were the culprits. Brooklyn doesn’t even scare me as much. Chicago an Miami are another story. Brooklyn’s no pushover and its gonna be a hell of a rivalry with KG an Pierce in tow..but they got a rookie coach and a bench I can’t trust to spell the starters consistently. Plus there’s only one ball. Now..if Stat can get back to where he can give us 35 mpg without breakin down then I think a starting 5 if Chandler-Stat-Melo-Shump-Felton with Bargniani backin up at the 4 and 5, JR, and Prigs leading the second unit with Hardaway contributing some is a really nice lineup. With the right balance it is flat out deadly. And if the rumors on Brand and Brooks are true then it makes the lineup even better. Copeland is probably gone but we can replace him with Extra E. I think that’s more than enough to compete for a top 2 spot again..IF Stat and Bargnani are healthy. One thing is for sure..Woody’s gotta coach better. Vogel out-classed him in the semis. Am I expecting too much? I am a lil torn on who should be on the squad between Brand and Kmart. With Brand we lose defensive versatility but gain rebounding, shot blocking and consistency.

    23. max fisher-cohen

      Juany8: Will they have a choice? Their players are all athletic guys who can run around and that’s pretty much it. Rondo is going to have zero motivation this year too so they should be searching like mad for a trade partner, after which they can tank with Jeff green and Avery Bradley as two nice pieces to build with going forward. I wouldn’t trade him till closer to the deadline though, just to make sure you don’t get a player back who might help you win games lol

      Eh, Jeff Green is only a year younger than Rondo. I bet he goes on the market as well.

      I have to say I’m most surprised and most happy to see Prigioni returning. Were I in his position, I would not have re-signed after the way Woodson handled my minutes. I hope Woodson gets a brain this summer and plays him 25 MPG from the get-go.

    24. Z-man

      I like Brand way more than KMart because he is a threat on the offensive end. 2-way players > 1-way players.

    25. JK47

      Ideally I’d love to have both Brand and K-Mart, because they both bring different skill sets to the party. K-Mart is more mobile and does a lot of the little things on the defensive end that some of the other Knicks– like Stat and Bargnani– don’t do well at all. Brand is still a really good post defender and is a superior rebounder to K-Mart. Over his career Brand has been the better offensive player, but K-Mart really flourished in the Knicks screen-and-roll game.

      Either guy would be nice. Both would be better.

    26. danvt

      Cool, all the starters plus JR.

      Brand now, please! Am I wrong? Is he actually the worst player in the NBA according to advanced metrics?

      I think after DAL whiffs on D12 they’ll give him a little more and he’ll stay there, but, boy he sure seems good.

      While we’re on how things seem. I’d love to see Bargnani against Tiago Splitter in a game of one on one. I think Brand could beat Splitter one on one as well. I think my mom could almost beat Splitter one on one. She’s got savvy and chutspah.

    27. danvt

      yeah, and Brussard calling NYK 5th best! If we fill out the roster with Brand, Barnes, and NATE ROBINSON, I think that’s a threat to anyone.

    28. danvt

      C.J. Leslie. Undrafted FA. Didn’t go in round 2 and we swooped in. Were you wondering about who he is or whether he’ll get any run?

      SeeWhyDee77: “Leslie”

    29. SeeWhyDee77

      So which Leslie are we predicting or hoping to be on the roster? I don’t know of any Leslie’s that I would like on the roster

    30. SeeWhyDee77

      Can Leslie knock down the corner 3 consistently? I’ve seen him doin alot of filling the lane and 15 and in stuff. He is crazy athletic though..kinda like JR when he first came in the league

    31. SeeWhyDee77

      I think Leslie is a nice end of the bench product as a swing forward especially if he can get up to 225-230. He had a really got PG in college. It’s gonna be tough to adapt. I really think it’s imperative to bring Extra E back as I believe Cope is gonna be too pricey. If Brand and Brooks ate serious about bein a Knick then this roster looks really good top to bottom. I’d rather have Nate than Brooks but Nate played himself out of our price range.

    32. SeeWhyDee77

      SeeWhyDee77:
      I think Leslie is a nice end of the bench product as a swing forward especially if he can get up to 225-230. He had a really got PG in college. It’s gonna be tough to adapt. I really think it’s imperative to bring Extra E back as I believe Cope is gonna be too pricey. If Brand and Brooks ate serious about bein a Knick then this roster looks really good top to bottom. I’d rather have Nate than Brooks but Nate played himself out of our price range.

      Nice project not product. I can’t get right today lol

    33. JK47

      Okay, Barnes for the rest of the MLE, then Brand on a veterans minimum contract, and maybe someone like Aaron Brooks also on a veteran’s minimum. I don’t love Brooks but as a third PG he’d be okay. So:

      PG Ray Felton, Pablo Prigioni, Aaron Brooks
      SG Iman Shumpert, JR Smith, Tim Hardaway Jr
      SF Carmelo Anthony, Matt Barnes, CJ Leslie
      PF Amar’e Stoudemire, Andrea Bargnani
      C Tyson Chandler, Elton Brand

      That’s a pretty deep and versatile roster. I love what Barnes brings to the table on the defensive end– plays with a chip on his shoulder and is very good at rotating properly. He’s a really savvy floor guy.

    34. Unreason

      I was really struck by Pachulia in a Hawk-Sixers game I went to last season. He was a vividly solid presence in the paint. Very decent on the boards, great picks, smart D, tough and he just looked a lot stronger than anyone else out there. Sixers have no middle to speak so it might have been an optical illusion. I admit that I don’t know his game well, but if what I saw was typical and he can be had for cheap, he seems undervalued.

    35. danvt

      From your keyboard to God’s ears, Pal. Then we can watch everyone who predicted doom and gloom squirm.

      JK47: PG Ray Felton, Pablo Prigioni, Aaron Brooks
      SG Iman Shumpert, JR Smith, Tim Hardaway Jr
      SF Carmelo Anthony, Matt Barnes, CJ Leslie
      PF Amar’e Stoudemire, Andrea Bargnani
      C Tyson Chandler, Elton Brand

    36. Hubert

      BigBlueAL:
      Interesting article about the Bulls and the turmoil between Thibs and the GM:

      http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/07/03/bernstein-behind-the-bulls-conflict/

      Interesting article, thanks for posting. That’s a must read for anyone who thinks the Bulls don’t have serious problems looming.

      Check this out:

      “Players began to feel so suffocated [by Thibodeu] last year that they were choosing to work out by themselves at a gym less than a mile down the road.”

      Wow. Throw in the fact that their star was healthy and wouldn’t play and none of his teammates criticized him for it (IMHO, that indicated he didn’t trust his coach to manage his minutes properly, and his teammates agreed), and you’re looking at a potential mutiny there next season.

      But we shouldn’t try to compete next year bc their getting Rose back.

    37. jon abbey

      NY really needs two legit backup big men still, then they can hope that 2 of the 3 of them and Chandler are healthy every game so Amar’e and Bargnani virtually never play center on D.

    38. danvt

      Hubert: But we shouldn’t try to compete next year bc their getting Rose back

      I agree with this sentiment. You gotta play the hand your dealt and GG’s done a really good job of that so far. The think that kind of gets me is that many people wrote them off after the Melo deal and even might have started abandoning ship as far back as the Amar’e acquisition. Mike Kurylo hasn’t been posting or writing any main articles for threads in quite a while. None of the pro writers ever really check in. The post game recaps have been great but I miss the other articles and I miss the check-ins in threads. Nothing from Mike K. on Bargnani? It would have been helpful. Has he completely checked out? I see that the 2010 reset was perhaps doomed from the start but I think it’s time to get engaged with what we have on the court. The roster is pretty good, getting better, and has flexibility in the future.

    39. Frank

      Get Brand and Jerome Jordan and I’m a happy Knicks fan.

      Feel bad for Cope. You get the feeling he really wants to come back but especially now with Bargs already on board, his skill set is a bit of a luxury. Will be interesting to see whether they go back to him if Brand says no.

    40. JK47

      I like Cole Aldrich, who has never really gotten a shot to play, but who has put up solid per-minute numbers. He rebounds and isn’t a total zero on offense. Makes 70% of his free throws. Still only 24 years old.

    41. bidiong

      I’m happy about getting both JR and Prigioni back. Hopefully they do a good job and get some steaks while they’re filling out the rest of the roster. It sucks the we probably won’t be able to have Copeland too but that’s the business of basketball.

    42. Igno-Bot 3000

      Not sure if we can get Barnes with the money we have but that’d be a great signing. Foye, Pachulia Aldrich or Wright would contribute too. I think Copeland would be reductive at this point considering his skillset relative to Amare and Andrea. Basically I wouldn’t mind anyone would could provide 3-pt shooting or interior D

    43. Unreason

      JK47:
      Okay, Barnes for the rest of the MLE, then Brand on a veterans minimum contract, and maybe someone like Aaron Brooks also on a veteran’s minimum.I don’t love Brooks but as a third PG he’d be okay.So:

      PG Ray Felton, Pablo Prigioni, Aaron Brooks
      SG Iman Shumpert, JR Smith, Tim Hardaway Jr
      SF Carmelo Anthony, Matt Barnes, CJ Leslie
      PF Amar’e Stoudemire, Andrea Bargnani
      C Tyson Chandler, Elton Brand

      That’s a pretty deep and versatile roster. I love what Barnes brings to the table on the defensive end– plays with a chip on his shoulder and is very good at rotating properly. He’s a really savvy floor guy.

      It’s deep. I’m not sure it’s big or tough enough to be effective against key opponents: Indy, Grizz, Chicago, maybe a D-12+Josh Smith enhanced Rockets, or to exploit Miami’s weak interior.

      Of course I’ll be happy with Brand esp for his rebounding and BBIQ. But he’s not much of a banger anymore and his reliance on interior scoring would be in competition with Amare’s new mainstay.

      I’d love for the Knicks to get someone with a fighting chance to push the David Wests, Roy Hibberts, Mark Gasols, ZBos, TDs and D-12s of the world off the block and generally just pummel them and tire them out for about 15 mpg in the playoffs. TC’s not soft, but he’s not that guy, injured or not. At this point, those “real bigs” just own the paint vs. the Knicks’ bigs leaving them only what their quickness, leaping, hustle and luck allows them to get. Maybe there’s no FA out there who fits that bill, but esp w/o KMart, I think it’ll be a glaring need come playoff time.

    44. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      SeeWhyDee77:
      Can Leslie knock down thecorner 3 consistently? I’ve seen him doin alot of filling the lane and 15 and in stuff. He is crazy athletic though..kinda like JR when he first came in the league

      Do you mean “Is he a career 27% 3PT shooter?”

      Because yes, yes he is. I’m sure his teammates didn’t set him up in the corner very well, though. That’s how this works, right? When a “uber-athletic” player is a bad shooter, it’s because his teammates didn’t help him enough. When a “not-so-athletic” player shoots well, it’s because his teammates made him that way.

      Okay. Got it.

    45. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Do you mean “Is he a career 27% 3PT shooter?”

      Because yes, yes he is. I’m sure his teammates didn’t set him up in the corner very well, though. That’s how this works, right? When a “uber-athletic” player is a bad shooter, it’s because his teammates didn’t help him enough. When a “not-so-athletic” player shoots well, it’s because his teammates made him that way.

      Okay. Got it.

      Remember when you argued that players (like Iman Shumpert) cannot improve their shooting through repetition?

      Your above argument is another complete straw man.

    46. SeeWhyDee77

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Do you mean “Is he a career 27% 3PT shooter?”

      Because yes, yes he is. I’m sure his teammates didn’t set him up in the corner very well, though. That’s how this works, right? When a “uber-athletic” player is a bad shooter, it’s because his teammates didn’t help him enough. When a “not-so-athletic” player shoots well, it’s because his teammates made him that way.

      Okay. Got it.

      I only asked the question. I could care less if his teammates set him up well. I just want to know if he can hit the shot consistently when defenses collapse or the ball moves around to him. I didn’t knock him at all or make any assumptions about his shooting. I asked just incase someone else saw more of him than I did. I’ve only seen him play in a handful of games..and that was this season. In my opinion..a player’s ability should have nothing to do with what his teammates do as he should already have said ability before he comes across his teammates. If I pass the ball to u and u make the open shot..it doesn’t necessarily make u a good shooter for example. So I’m kinda lost on ur last few sentences.

    47. Unreason

      ruruland:
      Barnes isn’t coming to Knicks, according Zwerling.

      If so, I think it was worth it to get Prigioni back even if dipping into the MLE cost them a shot at Barnes.

      Any word on KMart?

      As much as I want KMart’s toughness or Brand’s overall quality, it would be nice to add someone with less history of significant injury, given the cumulative risk the team is carrying already. Maybe Aldrich, as you suggested JK47.

    48. danvt

      All I know is that my cousin Laura just beat Tiago Splitter one on one.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: That’s how this works, right? When a “uber-athletic” player is a bad shooter, it’s because his teammates didn’t help him enough. When a “not-so-athletic” player shoots well, it’s because his teammates made him that way.

    49. Igno-Bot 3000

      SeeWhyDee77: I only asked the question. I could care less if his teammates set him up well. I just want to know if he can hit the shot consistently when defenses collapse or the ball moves around to him. I didn’t knock him at all or make any assumptions about his shooting. I asked just incase someone else saw more of him than I did. I’ve only seen him play in a handful of games..and that was this season. In my opinion..a player’s ability should have nothing to do with what his teammates do as he should already have said ability before he comes across his teammates. If I pass the ball to u and u make the open shot..it doesn’t necessarily make u a good shooter for example. So I’m kinda lost on ur last few sentences.

      C’mon, players can learn to hit the three in the NBA. That’s one of the easier skills to learn.

    50. SeeWhyDee77

      Igno-Bot 3000: C’mon, players can learn to hit the three in the NBA.That’s one of the easier skills to learn.

      True. I was just trying to point out that I never related his athleticism to his shooting..or anyone’s for that matter. I only asked about him because in rotation predictions I’ve seen him as SF2. So if we’re hoping he contributes as opposed to him being at the end of the bench and working on his game, is ‘how well does he shoot?’ not a fair question?

    51. dtrickey

      Happy to have J.R. back. Given we had his early bird rights I don’t tink we would have got as good a player (despite the negatives)with what cash we had. Would have liked to have seen fewer years, but I don’t think this deal will hamstring us that much down the road.

      Great to hear that Prigs will be coming back. Loved his energy and hussle, just needs to be a bit more selfish next year when he get’s himself into good position to score. Despite only having played a year in the big show, you also can’t discount the fact that he has been a star on the world stage and offers an experienced head for the young guards to get around.

      Would love to get Cope back, but I cannot fault him at all if he takes a bigger deal else where. He’s worked his arse off to get here and deserves the opportunity. I think all Knicks fans will get around him regardless, and if he ends up staying he will endear himself even more.

      I wouldn’t hate getting Jefferies back. Great team mate and the ultimate “yes” man when it comes to coachability and could fill a need for cheap. I love how he is still keen on the Knicks after we tried so hard to move him the first time he was here, and how we used him to pad out a trade. He’s like the ex-girlfriend who keeps coming back, even though you’ve been a total arsehole to her, but she thinks that you are just misunderstood and that you really love her. The only downside is still a massive liability on the offense. I’m having flashbacks to that Boston series two years ago.

    52. nicos

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Do you mean “Is he a career 27% 3PT shooter?”

      Because yes, yes he is. I’m sure his teammates didn’t set him up in the corner very well, though. That’s how this works, right? When a “uber-athletic” player is a bad shooter, it’s because his teammates didn’t help him enough. When a “not-so-athletic” player shoots well, it’s because his teammates made him that way.

      Okay. Got it.

      Was he a better shooter than your beloved Kawhi Leonard in college? Yes, yes he was. Leonard .513 TS% .250 from three, Leslie .528 TS .271 from three. Leonard’s terrific and I’d be thrilled (and pretty surprised) if Cj Leslie even got close to where Leonard is now but there’s no reason to believe that Leslie can’t improve his shooting numbers and if Berri liked the rest of his game I have no doubt you’d be first in line to say so.

    53. Z-man

      Wow, are we really debating what an undrafted free agent might or might not become? The ultimate no-risk, all-reward player? Bottom line: he was a solid college player in a tough conference, and he is one of the very top athletes in the draft class. He’s a young guy with unknown upside that is every bit as promising as anyone drafted in the late second round, where we would have picked if we had a pick.

      Hey, Tyrus Thomas just got amnestied, any chance he falls to us? Would we want him if he’s available?

    54. SeeWhyDee77

      Z-man:

      Hey, Tyrus Thomas just got amnestied, any chance he falls to us? Would we want him if he’s available?

      Absolutely if he replaces Kmart. Defensively at least, he can do the same things when he’s locked in. Plus he doesn’t have the age concern or health risk Kmart has. Only question in my mind is is our locker room sans Kidd strong enough to corral him? But hey..if Woodson can make JR pretty much reliable maybe he can do the same with Thomas.

    55. jon abbey

      I was thinking Tyrus Thomas too, I’ve always irrationally liked him, plus he’s already getting paid and should be happy to take the minimum (a la Blatche).

    56. flossy

      Uh, hell no to Tyrus Thomas. That guy was never very good and has become freakin awful over the past couple of years, like doesn’t-belong-in-the-NBA bad. I would rather have a 47-year old Kenyon Martin than Tyrus Thomas for even money. How does someone play 8,000 minutes in the NBA and accumulate -.6 career offensive win shares? Kenyon Martin’s no offensive juggernaut but he’s an extremely savvy and tough defender.

    57. Loathing

      Meh, I could deal with Tyrus as a third stringer…a pure foul absorber/space eater. I’d LOVE to somehow see Andrew Bynum if he’s willing to take a vet’s min….he might have to considering the lack of attention given to him.

    58. jon abbey

      heh, please remember that post when you see the $40M+ deal Bynum eventually signs this offseason, Loathing.

    59. Loathing

      jon abbey:
      heh, please remember that post when you see the $40M+ deal Bynum eventually signs this offseason, Loathing.

      If he gets 40 mill I’ll be shocked.

    60. Juany8

      Loathing: If he gets 40 mill I’ll be shocked.

      I’d be shocked if he got less, some team is going to get desperate and go for it. Anyways, I love that the Knicks have become a legit free agent attraction, allowing us to get decent players on the cheap. If OKC had that advantage, they’d probably have won a title by now

    61. danvt

      Loathing: If he gets 40 mill I’ll be shocked.

      Tiago Splitter got 32 Million. I think on that scale Bynum is worth like 150 million.

    62. bobneptune

      SeeWhyDee77:
      Happy 4th yal. I just saw where Chris Broussard thinks the Knicks are only the 5th best team in the east. Now..I’m not tryina discount Indy..but u gotta think we are better than our 2nd round showing. Personally..I think injuries, JR losing his game, and Vogel doing ONE HELL OF A COACHING JOB were the culprits. Brooklyn doesn’t even scare me as much. Chicago an Miami are another story. Brooklyn’s no pushover and its gonna be a hell of a rivalry with KG an Pierce in tow.

      I continue to marvel at the cognitive dissonance displayed on this board.

      According to most, Indiana’s 4-2 trashing of the knicks was some sort of fluke stemming by the refs following the rulebook.

      For some cold water. Besides West, all of the Pacers core players are young, athletic and improving. The played virtually the entire season and all the playoffs without their best player and scorer (which certainly would be helpful during the playoffs).

      The knicks biggest problem will be replacing Kidd’s 28 minutes of cerebral ball distribution. Who is going to pick that up. The notion of Prigs and Felton matched up with Rondo and Rose is pretty loltastic.

    63. BigBlueAL

      bobneptune: I continue to marvel at the cognitive dissonance displayed on this board.

      According to most, Indiana’s 4-2 trashing of the knicks was some sort of fluke stemming by the refs following the rulebook.

      For some cold water. Besides West, all of the Pacers core players are young, athletic and improving. The played virtually the entire season and all the playoffs without their best player and scorer (which certainly would be helpful during the playoffs).

      The knicks biggest problem will be replacing Kidd’s 28 minutes of cerebral ball distribution. Who is going to pick that up. The notion of Prigs and Felton matched up with Rondo and Rose is pretty loltastic.

      Every comment you make is loltastic.

    64. Z-man

      bobneptune: I continue to marvel at the cognitive dissonance displayed on this board.

      According to most, Indiana’s 4-2 trashing of the knicks was some sort of fluke stemming by the refs following the rulebook.

      For some cold water. Besides West, all of the Pacers core players are young, athletic and improving. The played virtually the entire season and all the playoffs without their best player and scorer (which certainly would be helpful during the playoffs).

      The knicks biggest problem will be replacing Kidd’s 28 minutes of cerebral ball distribution. Who is going to pick that up. The notion of Prigs and Felton matched up with Rondo and Rose is pretty loltastic.

      WTF? What are you talking about? Who the fuck said that?! You might be pessimistic about this team, but why do you have to overgeneralize and put words in other’s mouths? Who the fuck said that it was a fluke that Indiana beat us? Maybe 1 or 2 posters?

      I would guess that most optimists here welcome reasoned pessimism, but IMO you are little more than a troll pseudofan who adds little more than vapid naysaying. Why don’t you go back to wet-dreaming about superstar Jeremy Lin’s pelvic appendage?

    65. JK47

      The knicks biggest problem will be replacing Kidd’s 28 minutes of cerebral ball distribution. Who is going to pick that up.

      Brah. Did you even watch this team play last season? Jason Kidd’s “cerebral ball distribution” was long gone by the playoffs, replaced by “Jason Kidd’s 28 minutes of standing around like a statue of Jason Kidd.”

      Seriously, you’re worried about who’s gonna replace Jason Kidd’s corpse-like .213 TS% when the playoffs roll around? How about “anybody.” Anybody but Jason Kidd’s 40-year old carcass is a major upgrade. Austin Rivers would be an upgrade. Sebatstian Telfair would be an uprgade. For realz.

    66. SeeWhyDee77

      bobneptune: I continue to marvel at the cognitive dissonance displayed on this board.

      According to most, Indiana’s 4-2 trashing of the knicks was some sort of fluke stemming by the refs following the rulebook.

      For some cold water. Besides West, all of the Pacers core players are young, athletic and improving. The played virtually the entire season and all the playoffs without their best player and scorer (which certainly would be helpful during the playoffs).

      The knicks biggest problem will be replacing Kidd’s 28 minutes of cerebral ball distribution. Who is going to pick that up. The notion of Prigs and Felton matched up with Rondo and Rose is pretty loltastic.

      I get u Bob. But I’m not saying it was a fluke. What I am saying tho is I believe we had better talent than Indy and injuries, brain farts, and Vogel clearly winnin the X’s and O’s led to Indy ending our season. I’m not saying indy’s not a good team. But in the East..only one team was clearly better talent wise and that was Miami. I, as a Knick fan, feel like if woody had done a better job with adjustments and such we would have won in 7 despite JR losing his way. Again..no knock on Indy but great coaching can push players beyond expectations. And we had more than enough talent to make it to Miami.

    67. flossy

      JK47: Seriously, you’re worried about who’s gonna replace Jason Kidd’s corpse-like .213 TS% when the playoffs roll around? How about “anybody.” Anybody but Jason Kidd’s 40-year old carcass is a major upgrade. Austin Rivers would be an upgrade. Sebatstian Telfair would be an uprgade. For realz.

      I literally pined for Mike Bibby

    68. flossy

      That being said, please no to Sebastian Telfair. If our offseason includes both trading for Andrea Bargnani and signing Tyrus Thomas and/or Sebastian Telfair, I’m going to be really upset.

    69. bidiong

      I’m going to laugh when this team repeats last year’s record. Think about it, we’re getting younger, bringing our same core back, and as long as Melo doesn’t have any major setbacks with his shoulder we’ll have a full training camp with the core from last year and hopefully a healthy Amarè. We should build some pretty good chemistry. Why do so many people have to be negative. Let’s see how the rest of our signings turn out.

    70. massive

      I would much prefer Bobby Brown over every single PG still on the market not named Jose Calderon. And Tyrus Thomas? No thanks. The guy is a great athlete with low basketball IQ and worse hands than a snake. I have no hope for him to do anything more than block a shot.

      In other news, the Warriors are looking to move a couple players for cap space for Dwight Howard. I wouldn’t be happier for any other fanbase in the Dwight Howard sweepstakes. Every other team looking to sign him either won a championship recently or employs Darryl Morey.

    71. Tony Pena

      The roster is shaping out nicely. It looks like it’s already a win at this point. I like Barnes, but I feel like Melo, JR, Shump and, according to Gruwald Hardaway Jr. could play the SF spot. CJ is so raw it’s not even funny- he will never be an nba player I think. But… young, athletic and cheap enough that he can be packaged in a trade next season, so, Win. PF/C is still a little weak. Chandler, Stat, AB have all been shaky in the health dpt recently. But it looks like they can be OK there too, there’s a few options. Brand and his interior game would be a very nice complement to that group I think. Then Cope, and then KMart. I wouldn’t get mad if they tried Mozgov again. Also, everybody keeps forgetting about the 31 year old with upside, Earl Barron.

    72. bidiong

      I don’t see a resign of Kmart since we asked him to sign and trade. I’m hoping I’m wrong but can we get Brand?

    73. Loathing

      danvt: Tiago Splitter got 32 Million.I think on that scale Bynum is worth like 150 million.

      For a guy with worse knees than Brandon Roy? Hell no.

    74. bobneptune

      SeeWhyDee77: I get u Bob. But I’m not saying it was a fluke. What I am saying tho is I believe we had better talent than Indy and injuries, brain farts, and Vogel clearly winnin the X’s and O’s led to Indy ending our season. I’m not saying indy’s not a good team. But in the East..only one team was clearly better talent wise and that was Miami.

      This is where the cognitive dissonance of a fan comes into play. You mentioned 3 areas: talent, brain farts and coaching.

      Do you think a guy like JR is going to have less brain farts next season and better playoffs after analyzing his entire career? Not likely.

      Is Vogel going to get dumber next season and Woodson smarter after coaching in this league 100 years already? Probably not

      Talent? Who on the Knicks other than Shumpert has a chance to improve? Is Amar’e all of a sudden going to get healthy? Not likely. Even if he plays, his record playing with Melo isn’t impressive. All of Indy’s rotation players other than West are young and improving. Their best player didn’t even hit the floor last year. The Knick’s big addition AB accentuates their biggest problem (bigs that are God awful defenders). They are also losing 27 mpg from a great orchestrator/glue player who played to an above average WS/48 of .128 during the 82 game regular season. You are going to ask a 36 yr old Prigs to expand his minutes big time.

      Let me put it this way, if we were able to swap the Indy roster and coaching staff and just swap laundry, any Knick fan that wouldn’t just doesn’t have his eyes open.

    75. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      danvt: Tiago Splitter got 32 Million.I think on that scale Bynum is worth like 150 million.

      Bynum wasn’t 8th in the league in WS/48 last year. Bynum didn’t play 2000 minutes for the Western champion.

      I really don’t understand why people are shitting on the Splitter deal. Given that the best max players are underpaid and a great number of them (Michael Redd, anyone?) are overpaid, he’s a max player.

      I would swap him for Carmelo Anthony in a heartbeat.

    76. Vinny L.

      Wow…So the Knicks really aren’t going to give us an upgrade at the Point Guard position……Nobody else even wanted the 36 year old Prig and they give him a multi-year multi-million dollar contract!

      Fans will really have to ask themselves during and after next season why Prigioni and the injury prone Bargnani was chosen over Chris Copeland and proven Brooklyn Nets killer Nate Robinson… And why the Knicks organization treated the latter players with utter contempt during the free agency process.

      Cope should not be made to feel guilty one bit if he goes to Indiana. In fact, as a frustrated New Yorker, i’m praying for Cope to go to Indiana, and for Nate to join Chicago, Miami or the Nets. In the case of Nate, this guy can’t seem to catch a break no matter what he does! This little big man DESTROYED the Brooklyn Nets IN THE PLAYOFFS!!! In the PLAYOFFS!! Knicks could get him!!! But they waste their mini mid-level on some guy named Prig…

      No way we’re getting Nate now. Prig would infringe on Nate’s minutes which be ludicrous given Nate’s performance on the big stage.

      If Melo decides to Bolt from the Knicks and work out something with King James, this true New Yorker will not criticize him AT ALL. Melo asked for an extra scorer, and the Knicks had the chance to add a more improved, more explosive, more composed Nate Robinson, and they sign some guy named Prigioni?

      BROOKLYN DOES NOT FEAR PRIGIPHONY! They’re laughing at this deal.

      We need a young, fast back up point guard. Prigioni can not pick up the pace when teams start “running and gunning” against the Knicks. The Knicks need a PG who can put the defense on their heels.

    77. triplewgf

      It was never a matter of “choosing” Prig over Cope. If Cope wouldn’t take the MLE, then there’s nothing the Knicks could do. That’s the reality of the cap situation.

      As for Nate, I don’t think we need any more inconsistent, shoot first guards. JR is enough, thank you.

    78. MeloDrama

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Bynum wasn’t 8th in the league in WS/48 last year. Bynum didn’t play 2000 minutes for the Western champion.

      I really don’t understand why people are shitting on the Splitter deal. Given that the best max players are underpaid and a great number of them (Michael Redd, anyone?) are overpaid, he’s a max player.

      I would swap him for Carmelo Anthony in a heartbeat.

      Will go nowhere near that far, but it’s a good contract for Splitter. The Finals ruined his rep, but he was very good at both ends this season.

    79. Vinny L.

      Nah.. Knicks need all the firepower they can get. Because they decided to retain a coach that has a penchant for taking guys out the game right at the moment that they start hitting shots for players who are scared to let it fly (Prig). A guy who refused to play Cope until he was pushed to the brink of elimination against Indiana…

    80. danvt

      I am personally gonna lay such a guilt trip on Cope if he goes! Copeland is good at basketball. Unfortunately he’s slow as mollasses. Vet minimum coup but no more.

      Prigs is exactly the guy this team needs. If you like what JKidd brought to the table this is the same type of PG play. Nate is a great one on one player at times but also goes 0-12 sometimes. I like him but we need team play. Have you forgotten that the team played really with Prigs starting?

      Vinny L.: Cope should not be made to feel guilty one bit if he goes to Indiana. In fact, as a frustrated New Yorker, i’m praying for Cope to go to Indiana, and for Nate to join Chicago, Miami or the Nets. In the case of Nate, this guy can’t seem to catch a break no matter what he does! This little big man DESTROYED the Brooklyn Nets IN THE PLAYOFFS!!! In the PLAYOFFS!! Knicks could get him!!! But they waste their mini mid-level on some guy named Prig…

    81. danvt

      I know! My god, how will anyone beat the juggernaut IND next season. They were SO much better than us. We literally have NO CHANCE, NO CHANCE. Roy Hibbert is a HOF center. The brilliant tactician Frank Vogel will out coach everyone and triumph once more with another ECF loss.

      bobneptune: This is where the cognitive dissonance of a fan comes into play. You mentioned 3 areas: talent, brain farts and coaching.
      Do you think a guy like JR is going to have less brain farts next season and better playoffs after analyzing his entire career? Not likely.
      Is Vogel going to get dumber next season and Woodson smarter after coaching in this league 100 years already? Probably not
      Talent? Who on the Knicks other than Shumpert has a chance to improve? Is Amar’e all of a sudden going to get healthy? Not likely. Even if he plays, his record playing with Melo isn’t impressive. All of Indy’s rotation players other than West are young and improving. Their best player didn’t even hit the floor last year. The Knick’s big addition AB accentuates their biggest problem (bigs that are God awful defenders). They are also losing 27 mpg from a great orchestrator/glue player who played to an above average WS/48 of .128 during the 82 game regular season. You are going to ask a 36 yr old Prigs to expand his minutes big time.
      Let me put it this way, if we were able to swap the Indy roster and coaching staff and just swap laundry, any Knick fan that wouldn’t just doesn’t have his eyes open.

    82. Juany8

      Douglas: So would RC Buford.

      THCJ is still living in a dream world where he thinks Greg poppovich is an amazing basketball coach that can improve the players on his team but that the players are also entirely responsible for their own production. Cognitive dissonance doesn’t even begin to describe that point of view, but then Berri thinks he knows more about basketball than the rest of the world, so he certainly takes after the rest of the WP cult.

      I’m at the point where I take TS% about as seriously as points per game when it comes to evaluating offensive play. It’s an almost meaningless stat that’s just as easy to individually manipulate as points per game, except instead of jacking up shots to improve your totals you refuse to take them. Like when Lebron decided that he wasn’t going to take half court shots because it would hurt his team’s efficiency, while Rose insists on taking most of those same half court heaves to improve his team’s chances of getting points. It’s moronic

    83. jon abbey

      yep, hilariously so. as I’ve said before, in 5/10/20 years people are going to look back on some of these stats and laugh and laugh and laugh. some of us already are.

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