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Tuesday, November 25, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jan 10 2013)

  • [New York Newsday] Carmelo Anthony suspended 1 game for confronting Kevin Garnett (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:07:00 EST)
    Carmelo Anthony was suspended one game by the NBA on Wednesday for confronting Kevin Garnett after the New York Knicks' loss to Boston on Monday.

  • [New York Times] Paul Pulls the Strings as Clippers Slice Up Mavs (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 08:13:23 GMT)
    Chris Paul orchestrated another Los Angeles Clippers triumph with a season-high 16 assists as he pulled the strings in a 99-93 victory over the Dallas Mavericks on Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] Clippers Beat Mavs 99-93 for 13th Home Win in Row (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 06:31:32 GMT)
    Chris Paul had 19 points and 16 assists, and the Los Angeles Clippers held on to beat the Dallas Mavericks 99-93 on Wednesday night, extending their franchise-record home winning streak to 13 games.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Celtics Rally in Win Over Suns and Surpass .500 (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 06:30:40 GMT)
    Boston survived a scoring drought that lasted almost half the third quarter, beating slumping Phoenix, 87-79, to get back above .500 for the first time in two weeks.

  • [New York Times] Spurs 108, Lakers 105: Ailing on Court and Off, Lakers Fall Short Against Spurs (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 06:30:05 GMT)
    Without Pau Gasol and Dwight Howard, the Lakers (15-20) could not overcome a double-digit deficit and lost their fifth straight game.

  • [New York Times] Carmelo Anthony Suspended for Postgame Incident with Kevin Garnett (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 06:30:05 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony was suspended for his actions after the Knicks’ loss to the Celtics on Monday, when he went toward the locker room and later waited for Kevin Garnett outside Boston’s team bus.

  • [New York Times] Grizzlies Beat Warriors 94-87 to Complete 3-0 Trip (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 06:07:36 GMT)
    Zach Randolph had 19 points and 12 rebounds, Rudy Gay scored 18 points and the Memphis Grizzlies completed a 3-0 road trip with a 94-87 victory over the Golden State Warriors on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Taurasi Is Named USA Basketball’s Top Female Athlete (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 05:19:46 GMT)
    Diana Taurasi was chosen USA Basketball’s female athlete of the year after leading the Americans to a fifth straight Olympic gold medal.

  • [New York Times] Faried Helps Nuggets Rally Past Magic 108-105 (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 04:52:39 GMT)
    Kenneth Faried scored 19 points and grabbed 19 rebounds to help the Denver Nuggets rally for a 108-105 win over the slumping Orlando Magic on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Mason, Hornets Beat Rockets, Win 3rd Straight (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 04:13:46 GMT)
    Roger Mason scored 15 of his 17 points in the fourth quarter to rally the New Orleans Hornets to an 88-79 victory over the Houston Rockets on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Parker Scores 24 as Spurs Beat Slumping Lakers (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:52:46 GMT)
    Tony Parker scored 24 points and the San Antonio Spurs handed the slumping Los Angeles Lakers their fifth straight loss with a 108-105 victory Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Microsoft’s Ballmer and Seattle Group Set to Buy Kings-Report (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:49:31 GMT)
    A group of investors led by hedge fund manager Chris Hansen and Microsoft Corp CEO Steve Ballmer is close to a deal to buy the Sacramento Kings basketball team for $500 million and move the franchise to Seattle, Yahoo Sports reported on Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] Boylan Moves to 2-0 as Bucks Beat Bulls 104-96 (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:43:48 GMT)
    Brandon Jennings scored 20 of his 35 points in the third quarter and the Milwaukee Bucks beat the Chicago Bulls 104-96 on Wednesday night for their second consecutive victory under interim coach Jim Boylan.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Avoid Another Letdown, Pound Wolves 106-84 (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:31:43 GMT)
    Kevin Durant scored 26 points, Russell Westbrook added 23 and the Oklahoma City Thunder overpowered the outmanned Minnesota Timberwolves 106-84 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Celtics Rally for 87-79 Win Over Suns (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:13:50 GMT)
    Jeff Green scored 14 points, rookie Jared Sullinger added 12 points and a career-best 16 rebounds, and the Boston Celtics recovered from a dreadful third quarter with a big rally to start the fourth and held off the slumping Phoenix Suns 87-79 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] AP Sources: Investor Seeking to Buy Kings (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 02:58:38 GMT)
    Investor Chris Hansen has contacted the Maloof family about buying the Sacramento Kings, setting up the possibility of the NBA’s return to Seattle.

  • [New York Times] Jefferson Scores 26 as Jazz Defeat Bobcats 112-102 (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 02:46:39 GMT)
    Al Jefferson had 26 points and eight rebounds, and the Utah Jazz beat the Charlotte Bobcats 112-102 Wednesday night for their fourth win in five games.

  • [New York Times] Johnson Leads Raptors Past Slumping 76ers 90-72 (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 02:31:48 GMT)
    Amir Johnson had 19 points and 12 rebounds, Jose Calderon added 14 points and 11 assists, and the Toronto Raptors beat Philadelphia 90-72 on Wednesday night, handing the slumping 76ers their fifth straight loss.

  • [New York Times] Irving Scores 33 to Lead Cavs Past Hawks 99-83 (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 02:25:58 GMT)
    Kyrie Irving scored 18 of his 33 points in the third quarter and the injury-riddled Cleveland Cavaliers beat the Atlanta Hawks 99-83 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Kevin Love Out 8-10 Weeks With Broken Right Hand (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 01:35:14 GMT)
    If the Minnesota Timberwolves are going to chase down their first playoff berth since 2004, they’re going to have to do most of the work without Kevin Love.

  • [New York Times] Timberwolves’ Love to Miss 8-10 Weeks After Surgery (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:34:36 GMT)
    The Minnesota Timberwolves’ playoff hopes were dealt a blow as leading scorer Kevin Love will miss up to 10 weeks because of surgery to repair his fractured right hand, the National Basketball Association team said on Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Suspends Anthony 1 Game for Garnett Confrontation (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:28:51 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony was suspended for his actions after the Knicks’ loss to the Celtics Monday when he went toward the locker room and later waited for Kevin Garnett outside Boston’s team bus.

  • [New York Times] Phil Jackson Has â??No Intention’ of Coaching (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:09:31 GMT)
    Phil Jackson, the No. 1 target in the Nets’ coaching search, told a Web site on Tuesday that he has “no intentionâ? of returning to the bench, although his statement left room for a change of heart.

  • [New York Times] Nets 109, 76ers 89: Nets Control Boards and 76ers (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:09:31 GMT)
    Reggie Evans refocused the Nets’ attention from a sexual assault investigation, as he grabbed 23 rebounds and Deron Williams scored 22 points to help the team defeat the 76ers.

  • [New York Times] Blatche Questioned as Witness in Sexual Assault, but Is Not Charged (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:09:31 GMT)
    Andray Blatche, who is not being accused of any wrongdoing, was among three men and three women who were together inside a room at the Nets’ hotel.

  • [New York Times] Anthony Says Garnett’s Trash Talk Affected His Game (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:09:11 GMT)
    The N.B.A. is expected to make a ruling before the next Knicks game on whether Carmelo Anthony will be suspended for trying to confront the Celtics’ Kevin Garnett after Monday’s game.

  • [New York Post] Carmelo Anthony sitting tonight after KG altercation (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 05:59:22 -0500)
    INDIANAPOLIS â?? Cheerio, Carmelo.
    The NBA gave Carmelo Anthony the boot last night, suspending him for one game for confronting Kevin Garnett twice after Monday’s loss to the Celtics. The suspension will be served tonight vs. Donnie Walsh’s Pacers at the Bankers Life Fieldhouse.
    Even to the end, before…

  • [New York Post] Knicks waiting on ‘Sheed (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:28:33 -0500)
    INDIANAPOLIS â?? The Knicks could really use Kenyon Martin tonight.
    Bruised, battered and suspended, the Knicks go into their contest in Indiana short on big men.
    Carmelo Anthony is suspended, Rasheed Wallace is still out for another week with a sore left foot and coach Mike Woodson has been told he…

  • [New York Post] Too much, too soon for Amar’e (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 01:11:38 -0500)
    The jump was too high for Amar’e Stoudemire.In his first three games since returning from left knee surgery, Stoudemire played between 17 and 21 minutes each time, the Knicks proceeding slowly with their $100 million oft-injured power forward.But on Monday against Boston, Stoudemire’s minutes zoomed to…

  • [New York Daily News] KG dust-up earns Melo 1-game suspension (Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:32:13 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony has been suspended for one game without pay by the NBA for confronting Boston’s Kevin Garnett several times after the Knicks-Celtics game on Monday night at the Garden.

  • 105 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jan 10 2013)

    1. Hubert Davis

      You know, KG didn’t exactly get straight on the bus. He was every bit a party to that altercation as Carmelo was. It’s idiotic that just one player is getting suspended, especially when the entire world knows who the instigator of the entire situation was. If there’s an altercation on the court the league never only suspends one of the players throwing punches.

      I disagree with the posters on the previous thread who think race has nothing to do with it. When the world gets footage of black NBA players acting hostile, David Stern is suspending someone. Period. No matter if they didn’t break a single rule in the books.

      “It is unacceptable for our black players to appear overtly threatening to our white audience” should have been the real quote from the league. Because NBA players have been confronting each other after games since the dawn of time and this is the first time someone got suspended for it and will probably be the last.

    2. flossy

      Hubert Davis:
      You know, KG didn’t exactly get straight on the bus.He was every bit a party to that altercation as Carmelo was.It’s idiotic that just one player is getting suspended, especially when the entire world knows who the instigator of the entire situation was.If there’s an altercation on the court the league never only suspends one of the players throwing punches.

      I disagree with the posters on the previous thread who think race has nothing to do with it.When the world gets footage of black NBA players acting hostile, David Stern is suspending someone.Period.No matter if they didn’t break a single rule in the books.

      “It is unacceptable for our black players to appear overtly threatening to our white audience” should have been the real quote from the league.Because NBA players have been confronting each other after games since the dawn of time and this is the first time someone got suspended for it and will probably be the last.

      I’m pretty sure KG wasn’t waiting around outside anyone’s locker room trying to act tough after the game. Also pretty sure he’s as black as they come, so not sure what your point is. What sports league condones extracurricular intimidation and fighting off the court/field? Is it really that hard for Knicks fans to accept that Melo just lost his cool and acted like a douche?

    3. Hubert Davis

      Not hard to accept that. Hard to understand the suspension, though. No rule was broken.

      I see your point about KG, but here’s mine:

      Per league policy, if there is an altercation and one person is the obvious instigator and starts throwing punches, the second party if they punch back gets suspended EVERY SINGLE TIME.

      He didn’t get straight on the bus. He engaged that altercation every bit as much as Melo.

    4. Bruno Almeida

      Hubert Davis:
      Not hard to accept that.Hard to understand the suspension, though.No rule was broken.

      I see your point about KG, but here’s mine:

      Per league policy, if there is an altercation and one person is the obvious instigator and starts throwing punches, the second party if they punch back gets suspended EVERY SINGLE TIME.

      He didn’t get straight on the bus.He engaged that altercation every bit as much as Melo.

      that’s a fair point, but let’s take it to the real world, right?

      Carmelo Anthony has been in the league for a LONG TIME, and he has played against Kevin Garnett countless times… he knows, just as everyone knows, who KG is.

      your team is finally looking like a contender, you’re receiving MVP praise… and KG keeps talking, and talking… why can’t you just tell him to shut up and that’s ok?

      I don’t care what KG said, Carmelo should have let it go… he’ll have 3 more games against the Celtics and possibly more in the playoffs, plenty of time to get back to KG.

      I do agree that Garnett is a punk, and he has learned how to tease and fuck up with his opponent’s minds without creating proof to be punished.

      but those who say it was because the media hates Melo are very wrong, I’m sorry… D-Wade was suspended a few weeks ago for supposedly intentionally kicking Ramon freaking Sessions, of the CHARLOTTE BOBCATS, during a game… so stop whining, this is the league’s treatment for EVERYBODY.

      now, is there a different treatment for white / black guys? that I don’t know, considering the history of this specific league, it’s very well possible…

    5. flossy

      Hubert Davis: He didn’t get straight on the bus. He engaged that altercation every bit as much as Melo.

      See, that’s where I think you’re wrong. There would have been no altercation at all outside the bus or locker room but for Melo’s actions. KG probably kept running his mouth, but the whole confrontation was a result of Melo’s inability to just shake it off, take a shower and go home. He got suspended because the league doesn’t want to set a precedent that it’s okay for players to settle disputes like this and because he made a total spectacle of himself.

      Tough break for the Knicks, but it’s one game. Hopefully he uses this as motivation to be coldly shitting out little bits of KG and Pierce come April or May.

    6. flossy

      Bruno Almeida: now, is there a different treatment for white / black guys? that I don’t know, considering the history of this specific league, it’s very well possible…

      I can’t think of any examples of white players who have done similar things (at least recently) and not been punished. In a league that’s 90% black, it’s going to be mostly black players disciplined. The only white guy that springs to mind who is constantly running afoul of the league office is Birdman and he gets punished quite a lot.

    7. Hubert Davis

      Bruno you’re talking about should Melo have handled himself better, and I agree with you. He should have let it go.

      I’m just raging against the suspension and David Stern’s bullshit rules. Hundreds and thousands of athletes have probably committed the “crime” of confronting an opposing player after the game. I’ve only been behind the scenes one time in my life and I saw Chauncey Billups confront Danny Granger in a hallway about something that occurred during the game. It’s not something you suspend people over. It never has been. But the league stated the suspension is because:

      “There are no circumstances in which it is acceptable for a player to confront an opponent after a game”

      Actually there are. It happens all the time. The league never punished it before and they’re not going to start policing every single off the court confrontation. That statement is 100% bullshit. So if that isn’t the real reason, what is?

      I’m not going to open up the whole can of worms, but come on. I will not believe for a second that if Kevin Love waited for JJ Redick at the bus after a game and they got a little heated that a) there would be that much security around, b) it would be a story, and c) there are suspensions handed out. I just don’t believe it. That’s my opinion. I hope that’s welcome here. I know this is an enlightened site that discusses basketball in a statistical sense and I don’t want to disrupt the overall discussion.

      None of that excuses Carmelo Anthony, though.

    8. thenamestsam

      Hubert Davis:
      You know, KG didn’t exactly get straight on the bus.He was every bit a party to that altercation as Carmelo was.It’s idiotic that just one player is getting suspended, especially when the entire world knows who the instigator of the entire situation was.If there’s an altercation on the court the league never only suspends one of the players throwing punches.

      To me there’s a clear difference here. In the situation of players on the court throwing punches the behavior that’s being punished with the suspensions is the throwing of the punches. So it follows obviously that both guys would be suspended.

      In this case the yelling and shoving and posturing that both guys engaged is NOT the action that’s being punished with the suspension. Stu Jackson’s statement about this is perfectly clear, and so are the league’s motivations. “There are no circumstances in which it is acceptable for a player to confront an opponent after a game. Carmelo Anthony attempted to engage with Kevin Garnett multiple times after Monday’s game, and therefore a suspension was warranted.” It’s not the pushing and shoving that he’s being suspended for, it’s the attempt to engage with him at all. The league’s not worried about a little harmless pushing and shoving with two guys being pulled apart. If they had done that on the court, no suspensions. The league is worried about what the eventual outcome is if they establish the precedent that it’s acceptable to continue your on-court beefs in the tunnels after the game. To stop that from happening they absolutely must punish any player who attempts to go after an opponent off the court.

    9. Hubert Davis

      flossy: I can’t think of any examples of white players who have done similar things (at least recently) and not been punished.In a league that’s 90% black, it’s going to be mostly black players disciplined.The only white guy that springs to mind who is constantly running afoul of the league office is Birdman and he gets punished quite a lot.

      No, that’s not my point. I don’t think David Stern is a racist who punishes people because they’re black. I think he’s overly sensitive to the potential racial conflicts of his audience (NBA insiders constantly refered to “marketing a black game to a white audience” throughout the 80’s and 90’s). I think the league is cognizant of things that they think their audience defines as threatening black behavior and they either regulate it out (like the dress code) or they punish it when it happens (like the Melo-KG confrontation).

      So I don’t think he suspended Melo because “There are no circumstances in which it is acceptable for a player to confront an opponent after a game”. I think he suspended him because he fears the video of two physically imposing african-american men engaging in a hostile & threatening manner is unsettling to a portion of his paying audience and he wants to let them know that he is in charge.

    10. Hubert Davis

      The league is worried about what the eventual outcome is if they establish the precedent that it’s acceptable to continue your on-court beefs in the tunnels after the game. To stop that from happening they absolutely must punish any player who attempts to go after an opponent off the court.

      But on-court beefs are continued off the court all the time! That’s the amazing thing here. The league is acting like they never knew this happened before! This is ONE THOUSAND percent about the video coverage and its affect on the audience and the illusion of authority.

      Let me ask you a question: if everything that occurred between Melo & Garnett had occurred except instead of video cameras and police the only two people present were Stern & Stu Jackson themselves, do you think they would’ve announced to the world that it occurred and suspended them because “it is never acceptable to…blah blah blah”? Hell no. They would have ignored it. Because it happens all the time. It’s going to continue to happen. And I guarantee you there will never be a suspension in the future for an altercation that occurred off camera. And a real crime is a crime whether there is a camera present or not.

    11. Hubert Davis

      Anyway, I’m taking you guys off topic and I’m a newbie here so I’ll stop pushing the issue. Just wanted to drop my two cents.

    12. thenamestsam

      Hubert Davis:
      Let me ask you a question: if everything that occurred between Melo & Garnett had occurred except instead of video cameras and police the only two people present were Stern & Stu Jackson themselves, do you think they would’ve announced to the world that it occurred and suspended them because “it is never acceptable to…blah blah blah”?Hell no.They would have ignored it.Because it happens all the time.It’s going to continue to happen.And I guarantee you there will never be a suspension in the future for an altercation that occurred off camera.And a real crime is a crime whether there is a camera present or not.

      I agree 100% that if it happens off camera it’s not the same level of deal. But I personally think that’s because they care about what the precedent set is, and when it coems to setting a precedent not all incidents are created equal. The reality is that both because there was video and because these guys are two of the biggest stars in two of the NBAs biggest markets on premiere franchises, there was a ton of buzz around this incident. When David Stern doesn’t punish Billups for getting into it with Granger that doesn’t establish a precedent because nobody knows about it, nobody who wasn’t there will ever see it, and consequently, nobody cares. This incident was big news and consequently what they decided to do about it was going to be seen as the precedent for future incidents.

    13. Hubert Davis

      @ 12 – I agree, which is why I personally find the whole situation a little unfair.

      As for the actual game, man I think it’s going to be ugly. We were better equipped to handle Melo missing a game when we had Felton to run the PnR with Chandler. What kind of offense do we expect to run tonight? And do we still have to go through with the charade of bringing JR off the bench?

    14. flossy

      Hubert Davis: And a real crime is a crime whether there is a camera present or not.

      It’s not possible to punish a crime without evidence, though. So yes, part of this suspension is for Melo being stupid enough to make a total spectacle of himself in front of a million cameras. He’s gotten away with other off-court stuff that didn’t happen to take place literally right in front of the media, so call it karma if you want.

      I’m also quite sure that if Steve Novak and Kevin Love blew up at each other on the court and came thisclose to fighting during a game and then had to be restrained by security outside the locker room afterwards someone would sit out a game. I think it’s more a matter of very public displays of violent/intimidating behavior in general being a turn-off to the league’s audience and sponsors rather than David Stern saying “uh oh, these scary black guys are acting too black!” unless you think that adolescent brawling is a uniquely black phenomenon, which I don’t.

    15. thenamestsam

      flossy:I think it’s more a matter of very public displays of violent/intimidating behavior in general being a turn-off to the league’s audience and sponsors rather than David Stern saying “uh oh, these scary black guys are acting too black!” unless you think that adolescent brawling is a uniquely black phenomenon, which I don’t.

      I’ve seen nearly identical behavior from white dads at little league games and it’s every bit as unfortunate and embarassing. Carmelo Anthony is 28 and has a 5 year old son. Kevin Garnett is 36. It’s the adults acting like schoolchildren part that makes it look bad to the league’s fans in my opinion, not the race of the participants.

    16. Hubert Davis

      Fair enough. Though please don’t think I was suggesting “that adolescent brawling is a uniquely black phenomenon”. Not at all. My point was there are some idiots who do and Stern panders to them.

      Re: tonight’s game, somehow TNT assigned Reggie Miller to this one.

    17. flossy

      Hubert Davis:

      Re: tonight’s game, somehow TNT assigned Reggie Miller to this one.

      Yeah, with Felton and Melo out I’m tempted to skip tonight’s game since I have no interest in having to listen to Reggie Miller of all people yuck it up as JR launches his 30th step-back jumper of the night.

    18. Kurt

      Thanks Hubie, that’s what I had really meant to express before, and thanks for doing a better job.

      : No, that’s not my point.I don’t think David Stern is a racist who punishes people because they’re black.I think he’s overly sensitive to the potential racial conflicts of his audience (NBA insiders constantly refered to “marketing a black game to a white audience” throughout the 80?s and 90?s).I think the league is cognizant of things that they think their audience defines as threatening black behavior and they either regulate it out (like the dress code) or they punish it when it happens (like the Melo-KG confrontation).

      So I don’t think he suspended Melo because “There are no circumstances in which it is acceptable for a player to confront an opponent after a game”.I think he suspended him because he fears the video of two physically imposing african-american men engaging in a hostile & threatening manner is unsettling to a portion of his paying audience and he wants to let them know that he is in charge.

    19. d-mar

      flossy: Yeah, with Felton and Melo out I’m tempted to skip tonight’s game since I have no interest in having to listen to Reggie Miller of all people yuck it up as JR launches his 30th step-back jumper of the night.

      Damn, I forgot it’s a TNT game, great opportunity for Miller and Barkley to trash their favorite team

    20. sekou

      flossy: Yeah, with Felton and Melo out I’m tempted to skip tonight’s game since I have no interest in having to listen to Reggie Miller of all people yuck it up as JR launches his 30th step-back jumper of the night.

      sadly, this is the type of game scenario where the Knicks actually play well, when the odds are against them (e.g. second game versus the Heat). i wouldn’t be surprised if they come out shooting well and win tonight..

    21. KnickfaninNJ

      Hubert Davis:

      Re: tonight’s game, somehow TNT assigned Reggie Miller to this one.

      I would have preferred someone else too, for example, Steve Kerr; but Reggie used to play for Indiana and has some notable history against the Knicks, so it’s not surprising he was assigned. He’ll have a chance to take us down memory lane if he wants to. If we were playing Miami we would probably get Jeff Van Gundy for similar reasons.

    22. johnlocke

      Agreed flossy. Another reason these rules could be in place is that the it is in the NBA’s interests to protect its players. It’s much easier to regulate behavior (not walking into the visiting locker room after the game to start an altercation or waiting by the other team’s, team bus) than it is to regulate words (trash talking). and Hubert I agree that the NBA cares about protecting its brand and has taken what could be considered controversial means (dress code) to do so, especially after the Indiana-Detroit melee. But to be fair, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal to ask multi-million dollar athletes to dress professionally when they are sitting on the bench – and most players have embraced it. At the end of the day, the NBA is a company with key products (players on teams – esp. star players) and key customers (fans).

      flossy: It’s not possible to punish a crime without evidence, though.So yes, part of this suspension is for Melo being stupid enough to make a total spectacle of himself in front of a million cameras.He’s gotten away with other off-court stuff that didn’t happen to take place literally right in front of the media, so call it karma if you want.

      I’m also quite sure that if Steve Novak and Kevin Love blew up at each other on the court and came thisclose to fighting during a game and then had to be restrained by security outside the locker room afterwards someone would sit out a game.I think it’s more a matter of very public displays of violent/intimidating behavior in general being a turn-off to the league’s audience and sponsors rather than David Stern saying “uh oh, these scary black guys are acting too black!” unless you think that adolescent brawling is a uniquely black phenomenon, which I don’t.

    23. johnlocke

      meant – trash talking in the game..above and forgot brand advertisers as the other key customers.

    24. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      johnlocke: But to be fair, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal to ask multi-million dollar athletes to dress professionally when they are sitting on the bench – and most players have embraced it.

      There’s implicit racism here, johnlocke.

    25. jon abbey

      the Pacers are playing well, but if you look at their lineup, they’re kind of undermanned right now too, especially if George Hill sits out tonight.

    26. johnlocke

      There’s implicit racism in asking professionals of all ethnicities to wear a suit? Wow. So if someone shows up to work and they tell him/her that he/she needs to wear a suit, you’re gonna say that’s racist? Come one dude. Would be really interested in hearing your explanation of that one.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: There’s implicit racism here, johnlocke.

    27. johnlocke

      Yeh but we’re more undermanned…I’d rather just assume we’re gonna get blown out, that has seemed to work much better than assuming we’re gonna win. lol

      jon abbey:
      the Pacers are playing well, but if you look at their lineup, they’re kind of undermanned right now too, especially if George Hill sits out tonight.

    28. Frank O.

      Racial stuff aside, I think Melo got repeated warnings and whether or not KG got on the bus immediately, it was Melo who was where he shouldn’t have been.
      I have to say, the refs let that game play out like a street game. There was so much physicality that on any given night would have been called. I believe the fault in part resides with the refs.
      On the other hand, given how angry both Melo and KG were, it was fairly commendable that they didn’t actually start fighting. I don’t think either one wanted to actually fight physically. Both knew the game hung in the balance and they both were essential to their team’s success.
      In the end, KG did a better job not letting it affect his game.

      Second point, there clearly are games where Melo at the 4 doesn’t work too well. Teams with imposing 4s give the Knicks trouble. I believe in games like that Amare should be the 4 and Melo the 3.

    29. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      johnlocke:
      There’s implicit racism in asking professionals of all ethnicities to wear a suit? Wow. So if someone shows up to work and they tell him/her that he/she needs to wear a suit, you’re gonna say that’s racist? Come one dude. Would be really interested in hearing your explanation of that one.

      I don’t feel the need to write why prescrptivism always privileges certain points of view, which in this case are white, upper-class attitudes about the way a person can make himself look “professional.” Given that the league is predominantly “black,” I’d say that the enforcement of such a dress code is racist — that Stern became concerned that black athletes looked a little too “black” before and after games, what with their baggy clothing and whatever — and imposed a standard of normalcy that is inherently racist.

      You can choose to rest on the conservative side of things, but there’s no denying that the idea of a three-piece suit being “professional” is a white, Anglo institution, whether you agree with it or not.

    30. jon abbey

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I don’t feel the need to write why prescrptivism always privileges certain points of view, which in this case are white, upper-class attitudes about the way a person can make himself look “professional.” Given that the league is predominantly “black,” I’d say that the enforcement of such a dress code is racist — that Stern became concerned that black athletes looked a little too “black” before and after games, what with their baggy clothing and whatever — and imposed a standard of normalcy that is inherently racist.

      You can choose to rest on the conservative side of things, but there’s no denying that the idea of a three-piece suit being “professional” is a white, Anglo institution, whether you agree with it or not.

      totally agreed on this (no sarcasm), it’s the same mindset that considers Bach and Mozart and the like above all other music. to some people, sure, to many many others, nope.

    31. iserp

      jon abbey: totally agreed on this (no sarcasm), it’s the same mindset that considers Bach and Mozart and the like above all other music. to some people, sure, to many many others, nope.

      Of course, Beethoven is the only one above all the others!!

      :P

    32. Nick C.

      True to each their own but I don’t think any race wants to really be stambed as the race of the ass crack showing have to waddle style of dress. I think even the president has a fetish with that. Just sayin’.

    33. klownboy

      Great discussion here by all. I know Hubert didn’t want to veer too much off topic, but he makes some valid points. I’m a Knicks fan, so I am bitter at David Stern for many other reasons (his role in the Knicks-Heat playoff brawl from way back that cost the Knicks a shot of dethroning the Bulls, and that stupid-ass age limit).

    34. johnlocke

      Thanks for laying out your thought process THCJ. I can see where you are coming from with respect to a broader comment on Anglo-standards, white privilege and the like. And you raise good points, about how unfair society as a whole is, especially with respect to issues of race, however, my argument was much narrower. The NBA is a business – it is a corporation. Employees who choose to work for that corporation have to abide by the rules of that corporation provided that they are legal and treat all employees within that entity fairly / the same. My only point was that it was not UNREASONABLE for the NBA to impose the policy of a dress code, given that most billion dollar corporations (majority of which are comprised of mostly white employees) enforce some kind of dress code for its employees. Just my two cents. Anyway, back to basketball por favor.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I don’t feel the need to write why prescrptivism always privileges certain points of view, which in this case are white, upper-class attitudes about the way a person can make himself look “professional.” Given that the league is predominantly “black,” I’d say that the enforcement of such a dress code is racist — that Stern became concerned that black athletes looked a little too “black” before and after games, what with their baggy clothing and whatever — and imposed a standard of normalcy that is inherently racist.

      You can choose to rest on the conservative side of things, but there’s no denying that the idea of a three-piece suit being “professional” is a white, Anglo institution, whether you agree with it or not.

    35. Hubert Davis

      klownboy:
      Great discussion here by all.I know Hubert didn’t want to veer too much off topic, but he makes some valid points.I’m a Knicks fan, so I am bitter at David Stern for many other reasons (his role in the Knicks-Heat playoff brawl from way back that cost the Knicks a shot of dethroning the Bulls, and that stupid-ass age limit).

      And though it was less consequential, the five game suspension for Marcus Camby when he swung (and missed) at Danny Ferry on MLK Day was the most egregious punishment of all.

      (In case you don’t know or need a refresher:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/18/sports/pro-basketball-camby-is-suspended-for-five-games.html)

    36. JK47

      It’s not going to be easy to score tonight. The Pacers are the #1 defense in the NBA and hold opponents to a league-low .445 eFG%. That’s an outstanding number, way ahead of #2 Chicago who is at .468. They defend the 3-point line better than any team in the league.

    37. d-mar

      ruruland:
      http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=8831758

      The gall.

      I have a lot of respect for Doc, and I know he has to defend his player, but he could have just said “I don’t know what happened on the court, it’s all speculation”

      BTW, if you’re a Celtic fan, you should be thrilled about KG’s shit talking, it may have cost the Knicks 2 games and moves you up in the standings. Wonderful.

    38. gransoporro

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I don’t feel the need to write why prescrptivism always privileges certain points of view, which in this case are white, upper-class attitudes about the way a person can make himself look “professional.” Given that the league is predominantly “black,” I’d say that the enforcement of such a dress code is racist — that Stern became concerned that black athletes looked a little too “black” before and after games, what with their baggy clothing and whatever — and imposed a standard of normalcy that is inherently racist.You can choose to rest on the conservative side of things, but there’s no denying that the idea of a three-piece suit being “professional” is a white, Anglo institution, whether you agree with it or not.

      Excellent post: I am not American and after 5 years here I still struggle with what you perceive or classify as racist. This post helped me.

    39. Hubert Davis

      On cue, check out this excerpt from an (excellent) article on Sheed & Stackhouse:

      That first Dallas season also featured the defining Jerry Stackhouse, Tough Guy story. It happened after Utah rookie Kirk Snyder took a cheap shot at him under the basket during a game. Stackhouse retaliated with one of his own. Both men thought they were even. Nope. They bumped into each other a few plays later and … well, Stackhouse can explain the rest.

      “Boom, he punched me in the stomach with an open fist,” Stackhouse said, incredulously. “I was like, ‘OK, I can go crazy right now and get suspended for two or three games and lose this money.’ The smart side of me said, ‘No, I’m not going to do that. But I’m going to get this boy.’ You don’t put your hands on me. I can deal with a lot of verbal stuff and wolfing and all that, but you put your hands on me, no. And I thought I had cleaned it up, but obviously I hadn’t.”

      When the game ended, Stackhouse recalls asking the training staff for a warm-up suit, then waiting on the docks where Utah’s bus would depart. “I ain’t even shower,” Stackhouse recalls. “I put on some sweats, some sneakers, and I went and stood in the tunnel. As soon as [Snyder] came out, I fired on him. I got in a couple. That was it. I don’t know where all these security people came from. It probably lasted 20 seconds. Everybody pulled me off and that was it.”

      And that’s how an NBA urban legend is born. Only, in this case, it actually happened: the time Jerry Stackhouse saved a few bucks by beating up Kirk Snyder after a Mavs-Jazz game.

      http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8820063/the-intertwined-careers-rasheed-wallace-jerry-stackhouse

    40. massive

      What makes Doc Rivers’ word final? As if he didn’t lie for KG over the Charlie Vilanueva incident. January 24, 2013

    41. jon abbey

      iserp: Of course, Beethoven is the only one above all the others!!

      :P

      I see the smiley face, but man I hate this kind of perspective. I have thousands and thousands of CDs in my collection, thousands more I’ve dumped over the years, dozens of worldwide labels for which I am the main US distributor and around a hundred I’ve produced and released myself featuring musicians from around the world, and honestly I could give a shit about Beethoven, Bach, Mozart or pretty much any other pre-20th century classical music.

    42. thenamestsam

      Interesting article highlight some of Amare’s defensive/rebounding shortcomings against the Celtics. Some of them seem a little harsh to me, but they definitely outline overall that he’s a second slow in his reactions on defense. Hopefully some of that will go away as he knocks off the rust, but some of it is definitely just bad instincts.

      http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2013/01/10/video-proof-chronicling-the-defensive-and-rebounding-woes-of-amare-stoudemire/

    43. flossy

      It’s worth pointing out that most jobs that come with a 7-figure salary require one to wear a suit, but appreciation for Beethoven is typically not required. For what it’s worth.

    44. jon abbey

      flossy:
      It’s worth pointing out that most jobs that come with a 7-figure salary require one to wear a suit

      in the entertainment industry? I don’t think so, guys on the DL in baseball or injured reserve in football don’t have to wear suits in the dugout or on the sidelines, movie stars don’t have to wear suits when they walk around in public.

      it’s a ridiculous rule, and I do think it’s kind of racist, put in because the league is mostly run by white people, catering to white people. fuck a suit.

    45. flossy

      jon abbey: in the entertainment industry? I don’t think so, guys on the DL in baseball or injured reserve in football don’t have to wear suits in the dugout or on the sidelines, movie stars don’t have to wear suits when they walk around in public.

      it’s a ridiculous rule, and I do think it’s kind of racist, put in because the league is mostly run by white people, catering to white people. fuck a suit.

      Coaches in football and baseball don’t wear suits either, unlike in the NBA. Different sports, different standards. And singers/movie stars are generally representing themselves, not an organization the way that basketball players are (and nobody tells NBA players what to wear when they walk around in public).

      If you want to delve into the socio-cultural origins of how a collared shirt, suit and tie came to represent authority/formality/whatever, that’s one thing, and yes–there is a distinctly Anglo-Saxony history there, which David Stern has basically nothing to do with).

      But most employers have the prerogative to regulate how their employees dress while on the job, and many chose to stick with the standard “wear a suit” line, and somehow it’s only deemed controversial when applied to pampered millionaire athletes (who seem themselves to care a whole lot less at this point than aggrieved blog commenters complaining on their behalf). If having to wear a suit for several hours a week is the heaviest cross you have to bear, you’re hardly oppressed.

    46. Hubert Davis

      thenamestsam:
      Interesting article highlight some of Amare’s defensive/rebounding shortcomings against the Celtics. Some of them seem a little harsh to me, but they definitely outline overall that he’s a second slow in his reactions on defense. Hopefully some of that will go away as he knocks off the rust, but some of it is definitely just bad instincts.

      http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2013/01/10/video-proof-chronicling-the-defensive-and-rebounding-woes-of-amare-stoudemire/

      Great share. Though I think they’re being a tad harsh on him when they declare: “It’s unadulterated laziness, through and through, and the Knicks get burned for it.”

      The clock on the play they are referring to shows 4:59 in the 4th and given his conditioning you could argue that instead of laziness it’s just fatigue.

      More damning are the examples of him bodying up Sullinger too far out to demonstrate counterproductive intensity. But overall it’s kind of rough on the guy to break down tape of his fourth game back and chastise his reads and reactions.

    47. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      johnlocke:
      Thanks for laying out your thought process THCJ. I can see where you are coming from with respect to a broader commenton Anglo-standards, white privilege and the like. And you raise good points, about how unfair society as a whole is, especially with respect to issues of race, however, my argument was much narrower. The NBA is a business – it is a corporation. Employees who choose to work for that corporation have to abide by the rules of that corporation provided that they are legal and treat all employees within that entity fairly / the same. My only point was that it was not UNREASONABLE for the NBA to impose the policy of a dress code, given that most billion dollar corporations (majority of which are comprised of mostly white employees) enforce some kind of dress code for its employees. Just my two cents. Anyway, back to basketball por favor.

      Yeah, I’m not a-hatin’ here. I’m just saying that whether it’s “corporate policy” or whatever, it’s racist. I’m not sure that Stern’s decision to suspend Anthony was overtly racist; probably not, even. But his policies over the years have been driven by a desire to please the corporate sponsors and public masses that institutionally uphold racism in these subtle gestures of white normalcy. That’s all I’m saying.

      It’s business, sure — but that business is still racist.

    48. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      flossy: But most employers have the prerogative to regulate how their employees dress while on the job, and many chose to stick with the standard “wear a suit” line, and somehow it’s only deemed controversial when applied to pampered millionaire athletes (who seem themselves to care a whole lot less at this point than aggrieved blog commenters complaining on their behalf). If having to wear a suit for several hours a week is the heaviest cross you have to bear, you’re hardly oppressed.

      I understand this point of view, and yes, NBA athletes are among the most privileged individuals in the world (as far as cultural capital goes). Again, that doesn’t make it racist. The gesture is more racist than anything. It’s the same principle as people getting up in arms about Musberger’s fawning over A.J. “The Prime Douche” McCarron’s girlfriend on Monday night: sexism exists in far more debilitating and destructive instances all around our nation, but that doesn’t mean that we should turn the other way when we see a relatively “minor” occurrence on such a public stage.

    49. nicos

      thenamestsam:
      Interesting article highlight some of Amare’s defensive/rebounding shortcomings against the Celtics. Some of them seem a little harsh to me, but they definitely outline overall that he’s a second slow in his reactions on defense. Hopefully some of that will go away as he knocks off the rust, but some of it is definitely just bad instincts.

      http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2013/01/10/video-proof-chronicling-the-defensive-and-rebounding-woes-of-amare-stoudemire/

      See this is what bugs me- if you charted everyone of Novak’s plays you find just as many plays that hurt the Knicks (most would be achingly slow rotations rather than being out of position but the outcome is the same). How many times a game is JR caught ball-watching? How many times does Kidd’s lack of foot speed force a chinese fire drill of rotations? Amar’e’s never going to be a great defender but as long as he can figure out how to play the pnr- and he’s been much better since Woodson’s arrival- he’ll be close enough to average to not kill you at that end. He has been awful on the boards since he came back but hopefully he’ll get back to his below average but acceptable numbers.

    50. Hubert Davis

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: But his policies over the years have been driven by a desire to please the corporate sponsors and public masses that institutionally uphold racism in these subtle gestures of white normalcy. That’s all I’m saying.

      Well said. That’s what I was trying to say earlier but couldn’t do it so succinctly.

    51. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Yeah, I’m not a-hatin’ here. I’m just saying that whether it’s “corporate policy” or whatever, it’s racist. I’m not sure that Stern’s decision to suspend Anthony was overtly racist; probably not, even. But his policies over the years have been driven by a desire to please the corporate sponsors and public masses that institutionally uphold racism in these subtle gestures of white normalcy. That’s all I’m saying.

      It’s business, sure — but that business is still racist.

      I’m 100 percent with Jowles on this.

    52. ruruland

      nicos: See this is what bugs me- if you charted everyone of Novak’s plays you find just as many plays that hurt the Knicks (most would be achingly slow rotations rather than being out of position but the outcome is the same).How many times a game is JR caught ball-watching?How many times does Kidd’s lack of foot speed force a chinese fire drill of rotations?Amar’e’s never going to be a great defender but as long as he can figure out how to play the pnr- and he’s been much better since Woodson’s arrival- he’ll be close enough to average to not kill you at that end.He has been awful on the boards since he came back but hopefully he’ll get back to his below average but acceptable numbers.

      Cherry-picked/confirmation bias. Was that Moore again?

      Amar’e had quite a few good possessions. It just so happens that his bad possessions are typically glaring/dubious.

      I wouldn’t pay much attention to it. I wish I had more time to do that kind of stuff in much greater detail/ more comprehensively. One day.

    53. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Nick C.:
      True to each their own but I don’t think any race wants to really be stambed as the race of the ass crack showing have to waddle style of dress. I think even the president has a fetish with that. Just sayin’.

      I myself think that the impracticality of such fashion is silly. Much of it is, according to my values, ugly, too. (Have you ever seen stuff from the Bathing Apes clothing company? It’s like Skittles diarrhea.)

      Still, it’s all about subjective values, always and always. There are certain aesthetic values that are biological and evolutionary, but we really don’t know what they are. What we can say with certainty is that associating oneself with black culture is a way to have yourself ostracized from the white majority. Imagine if Obama did a pre-election rendition of the most positive rap song you can think of — “C.R.E.A.M.” by Wu-Tang, for instance. Do you think people would think, “Wow, that’s a powerful anti-violence message?” or would they subtly feel, “Wow, Obama’s kind of black. He’s not like me”? This is the risk that Stern is afraid of. He’s status quo/high profits. Why? He’s a facilitator of a billion-dollar business. I get it, but I don’t agree with it.

      Remember when LeBron had to wear tattoo cover-ups in high school? Associations with prison culture, anyone?

    54. flossy

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: But his policies over the years have been driven by a desire to please the corporate sponsors and public masses that institutionally uphold racism in these subtle gestures of white normalcy.

      His policies have also resulted in exponential growth in the national and worldwide popularity, market share and and profit of the NBA and a concurrent massive increase in the compensation and cultural capital of its players. Hard to be that mad about being made to wear a suit when you’re being lifted up by that kind of rising tide. The whole “David Stern’s just trying to keep the black man down” meme is pretty myopic and played out IMO, not to mention that so many people who complain about Stern (not you) fall back, consciously or not, on borderline anti-semitic characterizations.

      Anyway, I’d argue that suit-wearing is at least as much a marker of class status as it is a racial thing, not that you can ever fully separate the two in American society. But I know many a black person who’d rather go naked than dress like Allen Iverson as well as plenty of white people who practically break out in hives when made to wear a shirt collar. The dress code = racist thing is not nearly as open and shut a case as many people seem to wish.

    55. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      [a cold chill spreads about the room as a brief spell of Knickerblogger bipartisanship, in which Jowles agrees that Steve Reich (and some of the artists on jon abbey’s label) are in many ways more exciting and interesting than the “masters” of European classical]

      Today is a weird day.

    56. ruruland

      flossy:

      Anyway, I’d argue that suit-wearing is at least as much a marker of class status as it is a racial thing, not that you can ever fully separate the two in American society

      Well, there you go.

    57. flossy

      nicos: See this is what bugs me- if you charted everyone of Novak’s plays you find just as many plays that hurt the Knicks (most would be achingly slow rotations rather than being out of position but the outcome is the same).How many times a game is JR caught ball-watching?How many times does Kidd’s lack of foot speed force a chinese fire drill of rotations?Amar’e’s never going to be a great defender but as long as he can figure out how to play the pnr- and he’s been much better since Woodson’s arrival- he’ll be close enough to average to not kill you at that end.He has been awful on the boards since he came back but hopefully he’ll get back to his below average but acceptable numbers.

      Agreed, Amar’e makes defensive mistakes like 99% of other players. I don’t think he’s worse out there than Novak, Copeland or (this year’s) Brewer, the people whose minutes he will be taking.

      I do think, however, that the onus is on Woodson to feature Amar’e a lot in the offense, because when Amar’e isn’t scoring he’s really not all that useful. I think he still can be a very effective scorer, but he’s not JR Smith who can create his own shot from anywhere within 28 feet out. Plays need to be run to get him the ball.

    58. BigBlueAL

      Now Amar’e is saying his knee is feeling great and their is a misconception about how his knee felt after last game. Says minutes tonight could increase not decrease and he could play tomorrow if he feels good.

      Its really mind-boggling how bad/confusing the Knicks are at dealing with the media lol.

    59. thenamestsam

      Thinking about this whole dress code thing has got me wondering – do you think the change in fashion we’ve witnessed among African-American players in the NBA over the last few years was partially caused by David Stern’s policies, or do you think it was independent of that? Because I would say that it seems like the majority of the players, at least the most visible ones, now routinely dress in a way that would be much more acceptable to Stern and his corporate friends. Tyson, Wade, Westbrook and maybe even one other made GQ’s list of 2012’s best dressed men or whatever, and athlete style has seemingly converged with movie star style to some degree. I think if that had been the case at the time Stern would have been fine with it even if it isn’t exactly corporate in its stylings. So do you think it just so happened that the prevalent style at that time was more offensive to his (at least somewhat racist) sensibilities, or did he move the trend in this direction by forcing these guys to dress in a way that was more acceptable to him?

      Also just as a sidenote I’ve really been enjoying everyone’s comments on this topic. They have very thought provoking, and it’s nice to see argument over a touchy subject that has stayed pretty peaceful.

    60. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      thenamestsam:
      Thinking about this whole dress code thing has got me wondering – do you think the change in fashion we’ve witnessed among African-American players in the NBA over the last few years was partially caused by David Stern’s policies, or do you think it was independent of that? Because I would say that it seems like the majority of the players, at least the most visible ones, now routinely dress in a way that would be much more acceptable to Stern and his corporate friends. Tyson, Wade, Westbrook and maybe even one other made GQ’s list of 2012?s best dressed men or whatever, and athlete style has seemingly converged with movie star style to some degree. I think if that had been the case at the time Stern would have been fine with it even if it isn’t exactly corporate in its stylings. So do you think it just so happened that the prevalent style at that time was more offensive to his (at least somewhat racist) sensibilities, or did he move the trend in this direction by forcing these guys to dress in a way that was more acceptable to him?

      Also just as a sidenote I’ve really been enjoying everyone’s comments on this topic. They have very thought provoking, and it’s nice to see argument over a touchy subject that has stayed pretty peaceful.

      I’m not sure about your question because I think it’s got a lot of potential causes (like Carmelo Anthony’s increased TS% this year), but the possibility that mainstream culture has been more willing to give attention to a bunch of 6’9″ guys wearing designer shit — ooh, racism.

      I have no idea.

    61. thenamestsam

      flossy: Agreed, Amar’e makes defensive mistakes like 99% of other players.I don’t think he’s worse out there than Novak, Copeland or (this year’s) Brewer, the people whose minutes he will be taking.

      I have to say that I think this is basically the classic case of why statistics are absolutely necessary to answer some questions. Yes, every player (no need for the 99% qualification) makes defensive mistakes. And consequently I agree that it does feel like cherry-picking when you see someone basically pull out each of one player’s mistakes without talking about anybody else.

      But obviously we can all agree that the above doesn’t mean that all players are equally good or bad on defense. And defense is made up of so many small things (and so many things that are happening away from the ball) that the eye test is really inexact in my opinion. You just can’t see it all at once. I agree with you that I can’t say with certainty what the correct order to rate Brewer, Novak, Amare and Cope on D is. But I don’t think that is sufficient to say that they’re all basically the same. I can believe that one of them might be considerably better or worse than the others and I still wouldn’t be able to defintively tell it with the eye test.

    62. nicos

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Yeah, I’m not a-hatin’ here. I’m just saying that whether it’s “corporate policy” or whatever, it’s racist. I’m not sure that Stern’s decision to suspend Anthony was overtly racist; probably not, even. But his policies over the years have been driven by a desire to please the corporate sponsors and public masses that institutionally uphold racism in these subtle gestures of white normalcy. That’s all I’m saying.

      It’s business, sure — but that business is still racist.

      Agree, at the same time I think the success of the NBA- especially in the 80s/90s- really did help erode some long-standing racial boundaries between white culture and black culture in this country (though by no means eliminated them). And Stern’s willingness to promote the best players black or white really helped that. In the 70s you would have had one ad for Chris Mullin for every one of MJ and you’d have never seen one for AI (hyperbole but you get the idea). They’ve done a pretty good job in the coaching department and are starting to do better in management. Very small inroads in ownership but I think you’d have to believe that Stern would love to make progress there as well. While the dress code stuff was definitely a step backward I think in general the NBA has been pretty aware of the racial implications of their policies (as well they should be in a league that’s 90% black) and have done at least a decent job of both trying to protect their bottom line with a largely white fan base and be mildly progressive at the same time. Admittedly, that mildly progressive is really mild but still relatively progressive for a large corporate entity.

    63. DRed

      nicos: See this is what bugs me- if you charted everyone of Novak’s plays you find just as many plays that hurt the Knicks (most would be achingly slow rotations rather than being out of position but the outcome is the same).How many times a game is JR caught ball-watching?How many times does Kidd’s lack of foot speed force a chinese fire drill of rotations?Amar’e’s never going to be a great defender but as long as he can figure out how to play the pnr- and he’s been much better since Woodson’s arrival- he’ll be close enough to average to not kill you at that end.He has been awful on the boards since he came back but hopefully he’ll get back to his below average but acceptable numbers.

      How do you know that all Amare needs to do is figure out how to defend the pnr?

      The only thing that bugged me about that article was that the author kept calling Amare lazy. Amare’s never seemed lazy to me. It just seems he reacts slowly on defense. I’m not sure if that’s due to coaching or whatever, but I hate when writers make athetic shortcomings into a moral issue. And also, the guy just got back from a knee injurty.

    64. nicos

      DRed: How do you know that all Amare needs to do is figure out how to defend the pnr?

      The only thing that bugged me about that article was that the author kept calling Amare lazy.Amare’s never seemed lazy to me.It just seems he reacts slowly on defense.I’m not sure if that’s due to coaching or whatever, but I hate when writers make athetic shortcomings into a moral issue.And also, the guy just got back from a knee injurty.

      Teams in the past have looked to put him in pnr situations over and over again- look at the game in San Antonio last year where they just ran it repeatedly- and he’s been awful defending it. He’s not an awful man defender but why would you isolate him or post him up when you know you can get a good look pretty much any time you put him in a pnr. He’s been better- trapping harder and maintaining contact with the guard for the most part- which has been nice. He’s never going to be able to trap and recover like a Garnett or Chandler but at least he’s making progress.

    65. iserp

      jon abbey: I see the smiley face, but man I hate this kind of perspective. I have thousands and thousands of CDs in my collection, thousands more I’ve dumped over the years, dozens of worldwide labels for which I am the main US distributor and around a hundred I’ve produced and released myself featuring musicians from around the world, and honestly I could give a shit about Beethoven, Bach, Mozart or pretty much any other pre-20th century classical music.

      Haha, OK. I used not to pay attention to classical music and nowadays i listen to it from time to time and i find it great (depending of the piece, of course). I also have friends who disregard anything outside classical music (and jazz), and they piss me off with that attitude.

      What music do you enjoy most? I try to listen a bit of everything, but i like the most Mike Oldfield (and prog rock), 80s heavy metal and indie.

    66. nicos

      nicos: Agree, at the same time I think the success of the NBA- especially in the 80s/90s- really did help erode some long-standing racial boundaries between white culture and black culture in this country (though by no means eliminated them).And Stern’s willingness to promote the best players black or white really helped that.In the 70s you would have had one ad for Chris Mullin for every one of MJ and you’d have never seen one for AI (hyperbole but you get the idea).They’ve done a pretty good job in the coaching department and are starting to do better in management.Very small inroads in ownership but I think you’d have to believe that Stern would love to make progress there as well.While the dress code stuff was definitely a step backward I think in general the NBA has been pretty aware of the racial implications of their policies (as well they should be in a league that’s 90% black) and have done at least a decent job of both trying to protect their bottom line with a largely white fan base and be mildly progressive at the same time.Admittedly, that mildly progressive is really mild but still relatively progressive for a large corporate entity.

      After thinking about it a bit- I’ve changed my mind a bit (where’s that edit function!) I’d say they haven’t done a particularly good job in the coaching department- I think they’ve been aware that it’s an issue but been fairly anemic in terms of implementing strategies to fix it. It’s something you could probably say about the NBA as a whole- fairly self-aware with regard to race but not exactly coming up with effective fixes. The question is does that amount to de facto racism? That’s a tough one- I’d still rate them as mildly (as in very, very mild) progressive but not nearly where they should be.

    67. Robtachi

      ruruland: Cherry-picked/confirmation bias. Was that Moore again?

      Amar’e had quite a few good possessions. It just so happens that his bad possessions are typically glaring/dubious.

      I wouldn’t pay much attention to it. I wish I had more time to do that kind of stuff in much greater detail/ more comprehensively. One day.

      Yes. This has always bothered me about the way people critique average or even above-average defenders (which of course Amar’e is not, but still) who make some mistakes that lead to negatives for their team, foregoing all the other solid play you inherently don’t talk about because it’s expected. Now, I’m not defending Amar’e here, but I am saying that people tend to pay much more attention to glaring defensive mistakes in smaller number than solid consistent defensive play at other times.

      Why do so many negative reviews show up on Yelp all the time? Because people only generally expend the effort to point out the negative. If a meal or customer service experience is thoroughly unremarkable or even good without being remarkable, it is expected and therefore passed over as routine.

    68. nicos

      thenamestsam:
      Thinking about this whole dress code thing has got me wondering – do you think the change in fashion we’ve witnessed among African-American players in the NBA over the last few years was partially caused by David Stern’s policies, or do you think it was independent of that? Because I would say that it seems like the majority of the players, at least the most visible ones, now routinely dress in a way that would be much more acceptable to Stern and his corporate friends. Tyson, Wade, Westbrook and maybe even one other made GQ’s list of 2012?s best dressed men or whatever, and athlete style has seemingly converged with movie star style to some degree. I think if that had been the case at the time Stern would have been fine with it even if it isn’t exactly corporate in its stylings. So do you think it just so happened that the prevalent style at that time was more offensive to his (at least somewhat racist) sensibilities, or did he move the trend in this direction by forcing these guys to dress in a way that was more acceptable to him?

      Also just as a sidenote I’ve really been enjoying everyone’s comments on this topic. They have very thought provoking, and it’s nice to see argument over a touchy subject that has stayed pretty peaceful.

      On the dress code thing I’d also note that if I recall correctly, Stern had a fair amount of support from the players union- especially older members. And that at the time it was hardly an issue limited to a black/white divide and was in fact fairly hotly debated within the Black community itself- at least here in Chicago. I’d add that it’s a generational as well as a racial issue. Of course, it gains really uncomfortably racist overtones when it’s a largely white league office telling a largely black group of players how to dress.

    69. jon abbey

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      [a cold chill spreads about the room as a brief spell of Knickerblogger bipartisanship, in which Jowles agrees that Steve Reich (and some of the artists on jon abbey’s label) are in many ways more exciting and interesting than the “masters” of European classical]

      Today is a weird day.

      not a Steve Reich fan personally, but thanks on the rest. did you notice I’ve agreed with you a handful of times recently also?

    70. jon abbey

      iserp: Haha, OK. I used not to pay attention to classical music and nowadays i listen to it from time to time and i find it great (depending of the piece, of course). I also have friends who disregard anything outside classical music (and jazz), and they piss me off with that attitude.

      What music do you enjoy most? I try to listen a bit of everything, but i like the most Mike Oldfield (and prog rock), 80s heavy metal and indie.

      sorry to everyone else for the sidetrack, but I run Erstwhile, focusing on electroacoustic improv (although moving away from that somewhat in recent years):

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erstwhile_Records

    71. nicos

      jon abbey:
      and since I just linked it on FB, here is a good example of the music I focus on (99 percent of the human race will likely hate this, so if you do, no need to tell me):

      http://vimeo.com/51944882

      I think I might have mentioned that I was at that show- great except for it’s disconcerting use (for me anyway) of the live broadcast of game one of the Yankees/Detroit series.

    72. johnlocke

      THCJ raises some good points but I’m more in agreement with you on this one flossy. Well said I think.

      flossy: His policies have also resulted in exponential growth in the national and worldwide popularity, market share and and profit of the NBA and a concurrent massive increase in the compensation and cultural capital of its players.Hard to be that mad about being made to wear a suit when you’re being lifted up by that kind of rising tide.The whole “David Stern’s just trying to keep the black man down” meme is pretty myopic and played out IMO, not to mention that so many people who complain about Stern (not you) fall back, consciously or not, on borderline anti-semitic characterizations.

      Anyway, I’d argue that suit-wearing is at least as much a marker of class status as it is a racial thing, not that you can ever fully separate the two in American society.But I know many a black person who’d rather go naked than dress like Allen Iverson as well as plenty of white people who practically break out in hives when made to wear a shirt collar.The dress code = racist thing is not nearly as open and shut a case as many people seem to wish.

    73. johnlocke

      Chris Copeland getting love from Reggie Miller on NBATV (“Copeland has averaged 25 ppg in the last three games Melo has missed”)…we’ll see how long the love lasts. There should be some rule about having a homer announce a game on TNT…first we had Barkley, now Miller…can we have more JVG pls?

    74. Juany8

      Excellent points flossy, one thing I have to add is that the NBA has made it a key goal to grow its presence internationally. In other countries, suits and ties aren’t a “white” professional look, they are simply the professional look everyone uses. People in China don’t see black men “expressing themselves” when they see a guy with baggy clothing, they see an unprofessional looking basketball player. If Brad Miller showed up wearing overalls and a muddy shirt it wouldn’t be very presentable either. European soccer players wear some ridiculous shit too, I could see Rubio showing up in ridiculous outfits if there were no dress code. Stern is a controlling douce, but he’s smart and always sees the big picture.

    75. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: In other countries, suits and ties aren’t a “white” professional look, they are simply the professional look everyone uses.

      Only you would come on this board and say that there isn’t implicit racism in other countries adopting Anglo fashion. Unreal.

    76. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      johnlocke:
      THCJ raises some good points but I’m more in agreement with you on this one flossy. Well said I think.

      Race and class are indelibly linked.

    77. DRed

      Juany8:
      Excellent points flossy, one thing I have to add is that the NBA has made it a key goal to grow its presence internationally. In other countries, suits and ties aren’t a “white” professional look, they are simply the professional look everyone uses. People in China don’t see black men “expressing themselves” when they see a guy with baggy clothing, they see an unprofessional looking basketball player. If Brad Miller showed up wearing overalls and a muddy shirt it wouldn’t be very presentable either. European soccer players wear some ridiculous shit too, I could see Rubio showing up in ridiculous outfits if there were no dress code. Stern is a controlling douce, but he’s smart and always sees the big picture.

      Speaking of soccer players in ridiculous shit, here’s Manchester City’s Italian striker Mario Balotelli wearing a camouflage onesie.

      http://onepiece.com/us/blog/mario-balotelli-in-the-onepiece-camouflage

      And yes, that’s a camouflage Bentley he’s standing next to.

    78. jon abbey

      pretty sure Chinese fans or any other international fans don’t much care what players wear on the bench. looking professional is irrelevant IMO in a profession where it’s very obvious to everyone (within a range) just how good or bad you are at your job, and if you’re bad, you get kicked out of the league very quickly (unless you’re Michael Beasley).

      also pretty sure Chinese fans aren’t buying the suits players wear on the bench, they’re buying jerseys of their favorite players, and I doubt those sales would be impacted one bit if guys dressed how they wanted when missing games.

      it’s a rule put in by Stern because he could basically, and to appeal to the predominantly white American audience. it’s lame IMO.

    79. Z-man

      You guys are kissing me with this discussion of racist dress code policies in the NBA, right? There are some very serious issues with residual racism in this country, most notably in access to quality education and health care for children. I just saw a clip of a black president wearing a suit, then switched channels to NBATV and am now watching Michael Redd and Dennis Scott wearing suits. To call the requiring of a corporate employee, even in sports entertainment, to wear a suit and tie racist is, well, racist. Lots of white ballplayers are very attached to informal clothes (I doubt Jorts or Bill Walton or Chris Andersen dig wearing a suit.) It is also racist to assume that wearing a suit and tie are not a “black” thing. As a middle school principal in NYC, I dress on the casual side and rarely wear a tie, much less a jacket, while many of my black colleagues wear a very corporate suit and tie every single day.

      If you’re going to talk about racism, talk about real racism…the kind that results in harm, glass ceilings, shut doors, etc. The NBA has more black media personnel, coaches, GMs, and upper-level management and as much ownership as any major sport. I don’t hear any of these guys complaining about the dress code, and I would expect that they would consider some of these posts nothing more than patronizing white-speak.

    80. jon abbey

      Z-man, I think the wikipedia article on the dress code says it well:

      “The new dress code banned fashions most often associated with hip-hop culture, specifically: Hardwood Classics jerseys (or any other jersey), jeans, hats, do-rags, t-shirts, large jewelry, sneakers and Timberland style boots.”

      “Critics such as Allen Iverson, Stephen Jackson, and Paul Pierce claim that the dress code will not change a person’s character regardless of what type of clothing they wear, and that associating hip-hop style of dress with crime or a bad image is racist. Iverson was also quoted to say, “the dress code is not who I am and doesn’t allow me to express myself.”

      Many NBA and non-NBA sports figures also claim that it targets young black males and is a slap against hip-hop culture which the NBA also exploits to its benefit when it suits them”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_dress_code

      and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the league that’s the most black is the only one with a dress code to date. as I said above, there’s none in MLB or the NFL.

    81. DRed

      Tyson’s neck is hurting him. We’re in bad shape already, but we’re proper fucked if Chandler can’t go.

    82. massive

      If you’re wondering, the Knicks’ game is being covered on MSG. I’m not sure I can stomach Reggie Miller tonight.

    83. maxwell_3g

      i guess i’ll assume that this will serve as the game log tonight? unfortunately, i cannot get MSG, so Im stuck with reggie

    84. Juany8

      Getting Camby back has been a big boost to this team. When (if) everyone gets healthy, this team can match up with anyone. Going to be a pretty fun playoffs, the Knicks only need a top 3 seed to avoid Miami anyways.

    85. ruruland

      When Camby has fresh legs he’s a really good player. Don’t want to overextend him. You’re seeing his best.

    86. flossy

      Z-man:
      You guys are kissing me with this discussion of racist dress code policies in the NBA, right? There are some very serious issues with residual racism in this country, most notably in access to quality education and health care for children. I just saw a clip of a black president wearing a suit, then switched channels to NBATV and am now watching Michael Redd and Dennis Scott wearing suits. To call the requiring of a corporate employee, even in sports entertainment, to wear a suit and tie racist is, well, racist. Lots of white ballplayers are very attached to informal clothes (I doubt Jorts or Bill Walton or Chris Andersen dig wearing a suit.) It is also racist to assume that wearing a suit and tie are not a “black” thing. As a middle school principal in NYC, I dress on the casual side and rarely wear a tie, much less a jacket, while many of my black colleagues wear a very corporate suit and tie every single day.

      If you’re going to talk about racism, talk about real racism…the kind that results in harm, glass ceilings, shut doors, etc. The NBA has more black media personnel, coaches, GMs, and upper-level management and as much ownership as any major sport. I don’t hear any of these guys complaining about the dress code, and I would expect that they would consider some of these posts nothing more than patronizing white-speak.

      I’m applauding at my laptop right now

    87. Z-man

      jon abbey: Many NBA and non-NBA sports figures also claim that it targets young black males and is a slap against hip-hop culture which the NBA also exploits to its benefit when it suits them”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_dress_code

      and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the league that’s the most black is the only one with a dress code to date. as I said above, there’s none in MLB or the NFL.

      Come on, jon, you know as well as I do that wikipedia articles are not worth the cyberink they are written with. Furthermore, I would hardly conclude that Allen Iverson or Stephen Jackson speak for all of black america. What did Grant Hill or Shane Battier or Doc Rivers or Mike Woodson or Stu Jackson have to say? Are they not black enough to weigh in? Why aren’t they outraged? Are you insinuating that they are all Uncle Toms?

      Are you denying that misogynistic, criminal and violent themes are an integral part of hip-hop music and culture, just as with heavy metal and other essentially white music cultures? Is the NBA saying that dressing metalhead is OK but hip-hop is not? In other words, one manifestation of racism is holding one race to a lower standard than another. That is clearly not the case here.

    88. Z-man

      Regarding exploiting hip-hop culture, there is overlap with hip-hop, R&B, rap, and other essentially AA music genres and cultures. I have not seen how the NBA has exploited the aspects of hip-hop that are associated with violence and misogyny, but would be happy to look at any evidence you can provide that it has.

    89. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Z-man: Furthermore, I would hardly conclude that Allen Iverson or Stephen Jackson speak for all of black america. What did Grant Hill or Shane Battier or Doc Rivers or Mike Woodson or Stu Jackson have to say? Are they not black enough to weigh in? Why aren’t they outraged? Are you insinuating that they are all Uncle Toms?

      This is a laughably bad argument, Z-man. I’ll let you guess which logical fallacy you’re committing, here.

      Your argument is that even if it IS racist (the dress code), it’s not racist “enough” to warrant serious discussion. To which I had this to say:

      “This is a ridiculous side-stepping of the point. No one’s claiming that racial inequality is more pressing in other places. The point is that by labeling Stern’s dress-code actions as “minor” racism, you say that it’s okay because it’s not making the players ride the back of the bus, etc. If a student came to your office and said that a bully called him a “pussy,” would you say, “That’s not harsh enough for me to pay attention to. Let me know when he calls you a ‘faggot’”? Of course you wouldn’t.”

      If you fail to see the cultural privileging in telling players that white fashion (i.e. suiting) is acceptable for NBA events but black fashion (i.e. Timberland boots, throwback jerseys, etc.), I don’t know what to tell you.

      While this is not “as important” as, say, the right for black Americans to vote or own property, it reinforces a sense of “correctness” in behavior. And that, on the individual level, is extremely destructive for all involved.

      I’m trying to imagine being a black youth in America, hearing that NBA players aren’t allowed to dress a certain way at NBA functions. What it’s replaced by is a fashion that originates in white Victorian culture and was passed through British imperialism as an “acceptable” standard for “professionalism.” I bet I’d be…

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