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Monday, September 1, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jan 05 2012)

  • [New York Daily News] Amar’e back, Iman back out as Knicks lose (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 06:27:58 GMT)
    As exciting as rookie Iman Shumpert is, the decision to rush him back to the lineup backfired as he re-injured his right knee in the fourth quarter of a 118-110 loss to Charlotte.

  • [New York Daily News] Shumpert’s engery fails to spread to Knicks (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 05:31:31 GMT)
    Iman Shumpert was anxious about getting back into the flow of things for the Knicks before they took the court against Charlotte at Madison Square Garden on Wednesday night. The rookie guard sprained his MCL in the season-opening victory over the Celtics.

  • [New York Daily News] Kemba still a champ at his former home, MSG (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 05:28:12 GMT)
    His home is no longer a train ride away in the Soundview section of the Bronx. His parents were watching on television in North Carolina and not at their usual spot in the stands.

  • [New York Times] Bobcats 118, Knicks 110: Knicks Fall to Bobcats, 118-110, Despite Return of Stoudemire (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 06:22:34 GMT)
    Knicks guard Iman Shumpert returned against Charlotte on Wednesday after missing 10 days, but left with a cramp in the fourth quarter as the Knicks lost to the Bobcats.

  • [New York Times] Celtics 89, Nets 70: Celtics Pull Away From Nets (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 06:22:34 GMT)
    Paul Pierce scored 24 points against the Nets, who lost their sixth game in a row and were playing without Deron Williams, Kris Humphries and Brook Lopez.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Magic Beat Wizards Behind Dwight Howard Double-Double (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 06:20:10 GMT)
    Orlando beat winless Washington, 103-85, as Dwight Howard scored 28 points and pulled down 20 rebounds.

  • [New York Times] Knicks Feel Effects of Missing Players (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:54:35 GMT)
    The offense has stagnated in the absence of Amar’e Stoudemire and Iman Shumpert. Both seem likely to return Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] LeBron Carries Load as Heat Scorches Pacers (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 06:09:33 GMT)
    LeBron James carried the extra load without Dwyane Wade as the Miami Heat recovered from their first loss of the season to crush the Indiana Pacers 118-83 on Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] Paul, Griffin Help Clippers Rout Rockets 117-89 (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 07:09:12 GMT)
    Blake Griffin had 22 points and nine rebounds before sitting out most of the fourth quarter, Chris Paul added 20 points and 10 assists, and the Los Angeles Clippers cruised to a 117-89 victory over the Houston Rockets on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Harrington, Fernandez Lead Nuggets’ Rout of Kings (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 04:48:17 GMT)
    Al Harrington scored 15 points, Rudy Fernandez had 12 points to go with eight assists, and the Denver Nuggets won their third straight by beating the Sacramento Kings 110-83 Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] LeBron Fires Heat to Pacers Thrashing (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 04:17:50 GMT)
    LeBron James carried the extra load without Dwyane Wade as the Miami Heat crushed the Indiana Pacers 118-83 on Wednesday to rebound from their first loss of the season.

  • [New York Times] Holiday Scores 23 as 76ers Beat Hornets 101-93 (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 04:15:01 GMT)
    Jrue Holiday scored 14 of his 23 points in the fourth quarter, leading the Philadelphia 76ers to a 101-93 win over the New Orleans Hornets on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Without Wade, Heat Rout Pacers 118-83 Behind James (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 03:57:12 GMT)
    LeBron James had 33 points and 13 assists, Chris Bosh added 22 points and the Miami Heat hardly missed Dwyane Wade in a 118-83 rout of the Indiana Pacers on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Bulls Beat Pistons 99-83 in Hamilton’s Return (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 03:12:11 GMT)
    Richard Hamilton scored 14 points in his return to The Palace, and the Chicago Bulls shut down the Detroit Pistons in a 99-83 victory Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Howard, Magic Run Past Winless Wizards, 103-85 (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 02:50:56 GMT)
    Dwight Howard had 28 points and 20 rebounds, Ryan Anderson added 23 points and 15 rebounds and the Orlando Magic ran past the winless Washington Wizards 103-85 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Heat Star Wade Out Against Pacers With Sore Foot (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:57:05 GMT)
    Heat guard Dwyane Wade has two problems: A sore left foot and a jammed game schedule.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Walker Returns to Garden, Site of Big East Glory (Thu, 05 Jan 2012 03:30:06 GMT)
    Kemba Walker averaged 26 points a game in Connecticut’s run through the Big East tournament en route to the Huskies’ winning the national championship.

  • 34 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Jan 05 2012)

    1. Frank O.

      I watched the entire game last night. I have a few notes:
      We all forget that for two years, basically, Amare has been playing against centers. centers are generally slower. It gives him an advantage offensively because few centers are quick enough to guard him off the dribble. Centers also don’t require the quick foot speed required to guard a power forward. What do we see now? Amare has trouble ball handling against PFs. He is slow to react to PFs on defense.
      Also playing centers was another reason he was shooting from outside. There are advantages taking. Center outside. You can break them down. You keep them from the boards and the paint.
      I think there are more adjustments being made out there than we are aware of.
      On D’Antoni, I rarely see him curse or shout on the bench, and there were several places where he was doing that last night. W forget coaches are competitors too, and he is probably embarrassed at what is happening. I mean, in a game, even great players don’t bury every open shot. Last night, they did.
      Lots of things going on out there. If it were and easy game it wouldn’t be any fun.

    2. Frank

      btw, the reason we are losing is mostly this:

      Our “top 4″ guards by total minutes played, shots/36, and TS% this year:
      Toney Douglas, 203 minutes, 16.3 shots/36, TS% 43.1
      Landry Fields, 183 minutes, 10.2 shots/36, TS% 49.8
      Bill Walker, 130 minutes, 8.3 shots/36, TS 61.4
      Mike Bibby, 74 minutes, 7.8 shots/36, TS 21.9

      The MOST productive guard (Walker, 30 total shots in 6 games) has taken less then a third of the shots Douglas has taken (92).

      You cannot win basketball games when your defense is mediocre and your backcourt is playing this horribly. You cannot win games when your STARTING point guard, who has played the 2nd most minutes on the team and taken the 2nd most shots, has an offensive rating of 92.

      We’ve spent all our time complaining about Melo on this board when he is having, by pretty much every statistical measure, the best season of his career, and one of the best seasons in the NBA. Per 36, Melo is averaging 28 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.2 steals, all with a TS of 59.3, a turnover rate of 11, a PER of 27.8, and a WS/48 of 0.228. I literally cannot believe that we are blaming this start on him when we would definitely be 0-6 without him.

      The problem this year is TONEY DOUGLAS, and to a lesser (but still significant) extent, Landry Fields and Amare. MELO IS NOT THE PROBLEM. Baron Davis cannot get here soon enough.

    3. Frank

      I think we seriously need to give thought to having Shumpert and Walker start over Landry and Toney.

    4. CapB

      Can we stop calling them the Knuggets? They have 2 players on the beloved Knicks team from last years. Its not as if Raymond Felton is averaging 20 points and 15 assists and throwing passes to a hot shooting Wilson Chandler every night. They have Gallo and Mozgov (who plays 20 minutes a night)

    5. d-mar

      I’m so glad to see less hysterics and more reasoned comments about the state of the Knicks. Fire D’Antoni and trade Amare for garbage after 6 games? That’s just insane. And we need to stop pining for the pre-Melo Knicks, they weren’t exactly defensive stalwarts either.

    6. Caleb

      I am getting especially irritated with Toney Douglas. He was drafted because he could defend – a quick, strong guard who was ACC Defensive player of the year. Any nice shooting was a bonus.

      Fast forward two years, and he thinks he’s Kobe Bryant, and seems to have given up even trying to stop the opposing PG.

      I understand he’s playing out of position on offense, so I’m not going to give him grief for not being a pure point – he never said he was. But he is supposed to be a defender. If he’s not going to defend, he’s not good enough on offense to be more than an end-of-rotation player.

      Of course as Dave Berri points out, shooting a lot and not worrying about anything else, is a smart move if you want to maximize your contract.

    7. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      But… but… this is a Conference Finals team. This is… supposed to be the team who can bring the Heat to six games… maybe squeeze out a victory with some luck. Why isn’t Carmelo making everyone else on the team better? He’s a superstar, dammit! He’s the best! Top 10 in the NBA, maybe the most gifted scorer! And Amar’e is… so good… so good.

    8. jaylamerique

      CapB:
      In no way am I counting Al Harrington.Lets not pretend he was a wanted player here.

      i agree with this, Al cost us two games because of his stupidity. The only player we really miss is Gallo. Other than that, felton was thought of as a chucker but most people here and WC was expandable. Moz was a 4th bigman on a championship team

    9. jaylamerique

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      But… but… this is a Conference Finals team. This is… supposed to be the team who can bring the Heat to six games… maybe squeeze out a victory with some luck. Why isn’t Carmelo making everyone else on the team better? He’s a superstar, dammit! He’s the best! Top 10 in the NBA, maybe the most gifted scorer! And Amar’e is… so good… so good.

      if we are going to be honest, he’s actually playing like a superstar. the problem is fields and douglass and their inability to score or defend

    10. art vandelay

      Yes, the Bobcats made a TON of long 2´s last night, some contested, others not, but from my vantage point the problem begins and ends with Toney Douglas: Agustin was literally waltzing into the lane last night, looking like John Stockton…once the defense breaks down because of PG penetration, our ridiculous defensive switches kick in and the entire team is scrambling, thereby leaving opponents open at the rim or, as last night, open outside shooters when the weakside defender doesn´t cover/switch fast enough.

      We can´t allow the opposing PG to torch us every night. I was expecting TD to hold the fort until Baron was ready, but not to be a real distributor-facilitator…he is what he is…a scoring combo guard a la Jason Terry but with even worse court vision…his ideal role is as 6th man. What has been the most deplorable and disappointing for me, is his incredibly overrated and at times horrendous DEFENSE this young season.

      I am not even looking at advanced stats right now, but quickly glancing at what opposing PGs have done to the Knicks thus far, here is the sad story:

      1) Rondo: 31 pts., 58% FG, 13 assists, 5 rebs, 5 steals, 5 TOs
      2) Ellis: 22 pts., 36% FG, 8 assists, 1 rebs, 1 steals, 3 TOs
      3) Fisher/Blake: 16 pts., 38% FG, 4 assists, 4 rebs, 2 TOs
      4) Evans: 13 pts., 43% FG, 3 assists, 5 rebs, O TOs
      5) Calderon: 9 pts., 38% FG, 12 assists, 4 rebs, 1 steals, 2 TOs
      6) Agustin: 14 pts., 29% FG, 10 assists, 6 rebs, 0 TOs

      While they haven´t shot the ball all that well, the high assist numbers for opposing PG, with exception of the Laker and Kings games, are particularly glaring and troubling. Of course, TD is not solely to blame for this, but his pourous defense I think gets overlooked on reputation alone…and he really after numerous chances has shown he is mediocre at best, poor at worst.

    11. ess-dog

      CapB:
      In no way am I counting Al Harrington.Lets not pretend he was a wanted player here.

      Well I will continue to use Knuggets. Wilson will come back, Danilo is their main player, and they have 3 Knickerblogger fan favorites in Lawson, Faried and Fernandez.

    12. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Oh, Carmelo is certainly playing like a superstar. Like I said before, if he keeps this up he’ll deserve league MVP — well, if Ty Lawson and LeBron don’t beat him out for it. But the whole “He Makes His Teammates Better!” line is a bunch of eye-test b.s. The Nuggets are just fine without him.

      By the way, did anyone see Faried’s first points of his career? Not sure if he’s athletic enough for the NBA, still.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A_0I9SiQoko

    13. leiboadam

      Moke Hamilton tweeted this, and I was curious what the smart knicks fans on this blog thought about it. Just as a basketball move, would you trade Amare for Pau? I think it makes a lot of sense for the offense. And I actually think Pau is a slightly better defender than Amare (in that he defends at all).

      Would you trade Amare for the package Houston was going to send NO (Scola, Martin, Dragic)?

      Sorry I know this isn’t a hypothetical trade type of blog, but at least these aren’t totally absurd.

    14. jaylamerique

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Oh, Carmelo is certainly playing like a superstar. Like I said before, if he keeps this up he’ll deserve league MVP — well, if Ty Lawson and LeBron don’t beat him out for it. But the whole “He Makes His Teammates Better!” line is a bunch of eye-test b.s. The Nuggets are just fine without him.

      By the way, did anyone see Faried’s first points of his career? Not sure if he’s athletic enough for the NBA, still.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A_0I9SiQoko

      Based on the guard play on this current team, we need Shump more than Faried. Shump had a great game last night and if he keeps that up, you say that we shouldve drafted faried

    15. jon abbey

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      But… but… this is a Conference Finals team. This is… supposed to be the team who can bring the Heat to six games… maybe squeeze out a victory with some luck. Why isn’t Carmelo making everyone else on the team better? He’s a superstar, dammit! He’s the best! Top 10 in the NBA, maybe the most gifted scorer! And Amar’e is… so good… so good.

      you’re confused, the top 10 in the NBA guy is Landry Fields, so sayeth your god Berri.

    16. jaylamerique

      leiboadam:
      Moke Hamilton tweeted this, and I was curious what the smart knicks fans on this blog thought about it. Just as a basketball move,would you trade Amare for Pau? I think it makes a lot of sense for the offense. And I actually think Pau is a slightly better defender than Amare (in that he defends at all).

      Would you trade Amare for the package Houston was going to send NO (Scola, Martin, Dragic)?

      Sorry I know this isn’t a hypothetical trade type of blog, but at least these aren’t totally absurd.

      i’d consider the houston package

    17. gransoporro

      ess-dog: Well I will continue to use Knuggets. Wilson will come back, Danilo is their main player, and they have 3 Knickerblogger fan favorites in Lawson, Faried and Fernandez.

      They really don’t have a main player as of now: Lawson is the one closest to the role at the moment; Danilo comes second. And Mozgov is improved (as I thought he would).

      On a different note, Shumpert or Faried? Well, how bare would our backcourt cupboard be without Shumpert? The (desperate) need was addressed and quite well.
      I like Shump, I do: he works hard, he doesn’t defer, his shooting seems ok, he moves well. But his handle is suspect. No, no need to tell me that with a good handle he would have been a top 3 pick: I know. Actually, I think he should have been picked before 17th anyway.

    18. Caleb

      Amare for Pau? Aside from the Lakers, there are 29 NBA teams who would make that trade without a 2nd thought.

      I’d probably do the Houston trade, too… they’d get the best player, but it helps our depth, gives us a guard for immediate help and improves our salary flexibility. And with Amare on the decline, I don’t know that in 2 years he’d still be the best player in the deal.

    19. xduckshoex

      My dream hypothetical Amare trade is to the Rockets for Lowry, Scola and Courtney Lee with us sending Fields their way. Or send him to Jersey for Williams, troubled superstar for troubled superstar.

      But I think people are jumping the gun when diagnosing what the issue is with Amare. He scored 25 ppg with Howard Eisley running the point in between his stints with Marbury and Nash. He played like an MVP alongside Shaq. It’s not a lack of competent point guard play or playing with a center that’s killing him right now.

    20. ess-dog

      If Orlando is really looking for vets, I’d offer Stat/Tyson for Howard/Turkoglu. That could be their best offer.

    21. Frank

      There’s no way that Amare brings the same package as Chris Paul does. CP3 is possibly one of the top 5 point guards of all time, or at least top 7-8. Amare is barely in the top 7-8 of PF’s playing in the league right now (in no particular order – Pau, Dirk, Blake, Garnett, Love, Bosh, Z-Bo). Amare vs. Bosh/ZBo is debatable I guess, but still – he’s not even a top 20 player in this league whereas CP3 is probably top 5-6. That’s not even considering his uninsurable $100MM contract.

      I think Amare needs to take a look in the mirror and realize that this team does not need him to be a 26 ppg scorer anymore. There just can’t be excuses that he’s expending too much energy on the offensive end. We need him to be 18-20ppg/10-11rpg and to care just a little bit on defense. He needs to spend 70% of his in-game brain on concentrating on defense, and let the offense come to him.

      That said – IMHO the guard play is still the main problem on O and D.

      Re: Faried – no one ever said he wasn’t athletic enough to play in this league. We just thought that he was too limited a player and that the chances that he’s the next Dennis Rodman are miniscule. We could be wrong, but it’s not an alley-oop that will convince anyone otherwise. There are Ivy-Leaguers who can make that play, and plenty of slam-dunk champions who couldn’t be impact players in this league.

    22. Ben R

      I think Amare can figure it out offensively. He’s too good not to especially once we start gelling and get better PG play, either from TD getting better or Baron coming back. He is a good shooter so even if he shoots jumpers he will hit more than he has this season.

      The reason I want Amare gone is that he is an abysmal defender. He’s always been bad and lately his quickness seems gone. Now that our offense doesn’t really need him to function he is too much of a defensive liability. The gains on offense do not offset the losses on defense anymore. They didn’t last season after the trade and I don’t see it changing. In fact as our team gels and gets better the less we need him.

      Melo is good enough on his own that with Shump healthy and Baron back we probably don’t need Amare to be a great offense.

    23. leiboadam

      I love Amare and am reticent to jump the gun. But their offense doesn’t make sense. Him and Melo don’t work off each other the way the two best players on a team should. They should make each other better not worse. Clearly Melo is the better player, and Chandler makes sense. They’ll never do it, but trading Amare for someone or multiple people that compliment Melo is the smart move.

    24. Frank

      I’m not sure that Amare can’t be good in this offense. Certainly when Chandler is off the floor, Amare should be playing center, should be the roll man on every PnR possession, and he should be the primary offensive option off that play. As far I can tell, we are not doing that. I’m not a basketball coach so I don’t know why not- but seems like we should try.

      When Chandler is ON the floor and when the coaching staff wants to make TC the roll man, then Amare should/could be the outlet jump shooter from 18 feet. For a PF, he’s a very good shooter – his FG% from 16-23 feet was 44% last year – not great but in the top 10 of PFs who actually play according to hoopdata. Everyone else on the list ahead of him is used extensively as a pick-and-pop guy — guys like Rashard (52% FG on 16-23 feet!!) Lewis, Dirk, Gasol, Scola, Bass, Garnett.

    25. ess-dog

      xduckshoex:
      r Williams, troubled superstar for troubled superstar.

      He played like an MVP alongside Shaq.It’s not a lack of competent point guard play or playing with a center that’s killing him right now.

      Yeah he played pretty well next to Robin Lopez the year before coming to NYK. We just need a ball dominant point on the floor.

    26. Ben R

      Yeah but those are all answers to his offensive troubles. What about his defensive ones? That’s what really worries me long term.

    27. Frank

      Ben R:
      Yeah but those are all answers to his offensive troubles. What about his defensive ones? That’s what really worries me long term.

      Oh right. I have no answer for that. =)

    28. Nick C.

      There was one nice play where Chandler got the ball about half way down on the free throw line on the right side and hit a cutting Amare for an easy finish at the rim. IMO Amare is a waste if they turn him into a long jump shooter. As an aside Landry seemed to drive and create off a dribble reasonably well at least in the first quarter (my attention to detail ebbed considerably as the game wore on).

    29. Frank O.

      Frank:
      btw, the reason we are losing is mostly this:

      Our “top 4? guards by total minutes played, shots/36, and TS% this year:
      Toney Douglas, 203 minutes, 16.3 shots/36, TS% 43.1
      Landry Fields, 183 minutes, 10.2 shots/36, TS% 49.8
      Bill Walker, 130 minutes, 8.3 shots/36, TS 61.4
      Mike Bibby,74 minutes, 7.8 shots/36, TS 21.9

      The MOST productive guard (Walker, 30 total shots in 6 games) has taken less then a third of the shots Douglas has taken (92).

      You cannot win basketball games when your defense is mediocre and your backcourt is playing this horribly. You cannot win games when your STARTING point guard, who has played the 2nd most minutes on the team and taken the 2nd most shots, has an offensive rating of 92.

      We’ve spent all our time complaining about Melo on this board when he is having, by pretty much every statistical measure, the best season of his career, and one of the best seasons in the NBA. Per 36, Melo is averaging 28 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.2 steals, all with a TS of 59.3, a turnover rate of 11, a PER of 27.8, and a WS/48 of 0.228.I literally cannot believe that we are blaming this start on him when we would definitely be 0-6 without

      Look, I agree the guard play has been terrible. But this all was known before hand. There is nothing new in this, with all due respect.
      What is annoying is the Knicks’ seeming inability to adapt to the circumstances. If you knew the guard play would be weak, and this board knew it would be bad, then why didn’t the Knicks place a greater emphasis on PnR between Melo and Amare and Chandler?
      Why are Melo and Amare going one on one so much, given the understanding that the guards would be weaker?
      Amare’s play and, in particular, Amare’s play with Melo has been so poor. I think this is where the frustration is. You play the team you have. Melo and Amare need to adapt in a big…

    30. Z

      Ben R:
      Yeah but those are all answers to his offensive troubles. What about his defensive ones? That’s what really worries me long term.

      Amar’e's defense is his offense. If he’s scoring at a high volume with with high efficiency, his defense isn’t really an issue. As it is, he’s not, and that is why his shortcomings are magnified.

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