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Monday, October 20, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Feb 14 2013)

  • [New York Times] Celtics Grind Out Ugly Victory Over Slumping Bulls (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:50:12 GMT)
    The Boston Celtics avoided another last-ditch loss against the Chicago Bulls on Wednesday when they eked out a scrappy 71-69 home victory in a low-quality encounter between two injury-ravaged teams.

  • [New York Times] Clippers Beat Rockets 106-96 for 3rd Straight Win (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:09:56 GMT)
    Caron Butler scored 17 of his 19 points in the opening quarter when the Clippers shot 77 percent and Los Angeles led all the way in beating the Houston Rockets 106-96 on Wednesday night for their third win in a row.

  • [New York Times] Raptors 92, Knicks 88: Knicks Start Slow and Finish Worse Against Raptors (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 05:55:24 GMT)
    In the last game before the All-Star break, the Knicks lost to Toronto with too many missed layups, 3-pointers and free throws in the final three minutes. The sellout crowd grew increasingly annoyed, groaning and booing every mistake.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: As LeBron James’s Game Takes Off, Comparisons Are Harder (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 05:23:42 GMT)
    With six consecutive basketball games in which he has scored at least 30 points and shot 60 percent or higher, LeBron James is on a great roll for any field.

  • [New York Times] Carter Passes Bird as Mavs Put Away Kings 123-100 (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 05:15:58 GMT)
    Move over, Larry Legend. Vinsanity still has a few special moments in him.

  • [New York Times] Anthony Unsure About All-Star Game With Arm Injury (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 05:04:11 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony’s All-Star game start could be in jeopardy after he received a deep bruise in his right arm that caused numbness.

  • [New York Times] Bynum Leads Pistons Past Wizards 96-85 (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:31:10 GMT)
    It hasn’t been much of a season for the Detroit Pistons.

  • [New York Times] Nets’ Tyshawn Taylor Eager to Prove He Is No Fluke (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:08:06 GMT)
    With Deron Williams out of the Nets’ lineup Monday against the Indiana Pacers, Tyshawn Taylor stepped in and provided a sudden, unexpected glimpse at his N.B.A. potential.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Magic’s Turkoglu Is Suspended for Steroids (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 03:50:53 GMT)
    Orlando forward Hedo Turkoglu was suspended 20 games by the N.B.A. after testing positive for methenolone, an anabolic steroid. He apologized to the Magic organization, fans and teammates.

  • [New York Times] Hornets Roll Past Trail Blazers, 99-63 (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 03:49:07 GMT)
    Anthony Davis had 21 points and 11 rebounds, and the New Orleans Hornets handed the Portland Trail Blazers their fifth straight loss, 99-63 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Ellis Scores 28 to Lead Bucks Over 76ers 94-92 (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 03:45:53 GMT)
    Monta Ellis scored 28 points, Brandon Jennings added 21 and the Milwaukee Bucks rallied in the fourth quarter for a 94-92 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Jefferson Powers Jazz Over Wolves 97-93 (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 03:40:08 GMT)
    Al Jefferson had 20 points and 11 rebounds and Paul Millsap scored 21 points to power the Utah Jazz to a 97-93 victory over the Minnesota Timberwolves on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Johnson and Nets Beat Nuggets 119-108 (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 03:34:24 GMT)
    Joe Johnson scored 26 points, including five 3-pointers, C.J Watson added 25 points and five 3s, and the Brooklyn Nets came away with a 119-108 victory over the Denver Nuggets on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Nets 119, Nuggets 108: Nets Defeat Denver Nuggets (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 03:31:26 GMT)
    There is no simple explanation for a Nets season in which the team has looked dominant and listless. On Wednesday, the Nets appeared unstoppable as they routed the Nuggets.

  • [New York Times] Celtics Hold On for 71-69 Win Over Bulls (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 03:28:05 GMT)
    Kevin Garnett scored eight of his 12 points in the fourth quarter and added 11 rebounds, and the Boston Celtics overcame poor shooting to beat the Chicago Bulls 71-69 Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Raptors Beat Knicks 92-88 for 4th Straight Win (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 03:22:13 GMT)
    Reserve Alan Anderson scored 26 points in one of the few good offensive performances for either team, and the Toronto Raptors beat the New York Knicks 92-88 on Wednesday night for their fourth straight victory.

  • [New York Times] George, Hansbrough Lead Pacers Over Bobcats 101-77 (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 03:07:51 GMT)
    Paul George posted his first career triple-double with 23 points, 12 rebounds and a career-high 12 assists, and the Indiana Pacers snapped a two-game losing streak with a 101-77 rout of the Charlotte Bobcats on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Leonard’s 3-Pointer Gives Spurs 96-95 Win (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 02:55:14 GMT)
    Kawhi Leonard made a 3-pointer with 2.9 seconds remaining to give the San Antonio Spurs a 96-95 win over the Cleveland Cavaliers on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Smith’s 30 Points Leads Hawks Past Magic, 108-76 (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 02:49:07 GMT)
    Josh Smith had 30 points and 10 rebounds and Al Horford added 26 points and 12 rebounds as the Atlanta Hawks blew past the Orlando Magic 108-76 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] NBA All-Star Break Could Be the End for Union Head (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:37:04 GMT)
    After 17 years fighting for NBA players, Billy Hunter might be down to his last, most difficult battle.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Woody: Knicks still have shot to win title (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:16:44 EDT)
    His Knicks have limped into the All-Star break, but Mike Woodson remains confident. So confident, in fact, that he still thinks the Knicks have a good chance of winning an NBA title.
    “I think we still got a legitimate shot, absolutely. Absolutely,” Woodson said after the Knicks’ 92-88 loss to a 21-32 Toronto team.
    Some may read that and wonder whether Woodson realizes team shares a conference with the defending champion Heat.
    But Woodson says he’s still confident because the Knicks are in strong standing in the East heading into the All-Star break.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Notebook: A 'possibility' Brewer could start (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:00:32 EDT)
    At the start of the season, Ronnie Brewer was rolling. In November he was starting and averaging 7.0 points and 22.7 minutes per game, and the Knicks went 11-4. It was the forward’s perimeter defense that helped the team the most, but when his shot went missing, Mike Woodson didn’t waste any time sending him to the bench. And that’s basically where he’s been ever since.
    But that could change after the All-Star break, with the Knicks’ defense dipping lately.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Melo might sit out All-Star Game (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:11:09 EDT)
    Carmelo Anthony said a “deep” right arm contusion he suffered on Wednesday night might sideline him for Sunday’s NBA All-Star Game.
    The New York Knicks forward suffered the injury early in the first quarter of a 92-88 loss to Toronto when DeMar DeRozan elbowed him in the arm on a drive.
    Anthony said he felt numbness throughout the game and called the contusion “kind of deep.”
    If he feels discomfort leading up to Sunday evening’s game, Anthony said he would sit out rather than risk further injury.

  • [New York Daily News] Dino-SORE! Melo in loss to Raptors, may miss All-Star Game (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:04:47 GMT)
    The excruciating pain in Carmelo Anthony’s right arm, pain that could ultimately prevent him from playing in Sunday’s All-Star Game, could not keep him from taking shots. It just prevented him from making shots.

  • [New York Daily News] Lawrence: LeBron’s record-breaking play puts Heat on Melo, Knicks (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:02:21 GMT)
    Here we are at the All-Star break and the Knicks are not looking down at the Miami Heat from atop the Eastern Conference, as Mike Woodson had planned. Woodson’s plans have gone up in flames, and it’s not just because the Knicks’ defense has regressed a few levels since the first part of the season, when they were ranked No. 1 in the NBA.

  • [New York Daily News] Woodson guarded on Shumpert trade talk (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 05:44:14 GMT)
    The clock is ticking on the Knicks with the NBA’s trading deadline looming on Feb. 21. From all indications, the club will remain quiet as opposed to two years ago when it changed the direction of the franchise with the blockbuster deal for Carmelo Anthony.

  • [New York Newsday] Knicks misfire in loss to weak Raptors (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:28:35 EST)
    The Knicks played like a team that was looking past the Raptors and ahead to the All-Star break. Some of the Knicks looked as if they needed the break.

  • [New York Newsday] Mike Woodson says Knicks not worried about catching Heat (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:30:45 EST)
    Mike Woodson isn't as concerned about catching the Heat as he is making sure the Knicks return to defending consistently and keeping the top spot in the Atlantic Division.

  • [New York Post] Anthony banged up as Knicks fall before break (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:14:21 -0500)
    The Knicks could use the break â?? the All-Star break. Even Carmelo Anthony may decide to take a break, too.
    After injuring his right biceps during last night’s 92-88 loss to the Raptors, Anthony left open the possibility of sitting out Sunday’s All-Star Game. Anthony had a dead arm…

  • [New York Post] 50 games in, still plenty of questions (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:04:45 -0500)
    Well, then. That was certainly a sobering couple of hours at the world’s most famous arena.
    Every time the Knicks have slipped on a banana peel this season, there was always an explanation: This player was out. That player was out. The other team was better, more rested, not…

  • [New York Post] Melo keeping All-Star Game at arm’s length (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:05:14 -0500)
    Carmelo Anthony faced one of the great conundrums of life â?? or at least the NBA â?? last night. His right arm was going in and out of sleep mode, thanks to an elbow injury he sustained in the first quarter. There was pain and there was numbness.
    But there also was…

  • [New York Post] Fields rocks Garden with engaging news (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:05:29 -0500)
    Landry Fields made his first return to the Garden last night as a member of the Raptors and had an announcement to make. He had gotten engaged just yesterday afternoon to his supermodel girlfriend, Elaine Alden.
    As Fields finished warmups, former Knicks buddy Steve Novak came over to congratulate him…

  • [New York Post] Shumpert sympathetic to longer ACL recovery of Bulls’ Rose (Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:04:34 -0500)
    Iman Shumpert hasn’t spoken to his Chicago cohort Derrick Rose, but he understands Rose’s recent comment that he could postpone his return until next season.
    Shumpert and Rose played high school basketball during the same time in Chicago, and they each had major knee surgery after tearing their…

  • 72 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Feb 14 2013)

    1. DRed

      Count de Pennies: Perhaps Landry’s fiancee is a Berri fan.

      Supermodel or not, it would have been hard for her to turn down a proposal from one of the NBA’s best players.

      Any system that ranks Landry’s fiance as a supermodel is so ridiculous that it’s not even worthy of discussion.

    2. Frank

      A few weeks ago we were talking about PEDs and Kobe and others — was just reading Simmons’s column (really just a bunch of emails from his readers) and one linked to this article– pretty telling:

      http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29487589

      sure he denied it later but I think we all know it’s for real.

      Yesterday Tim Legler also said it in a sideways fashion about Lebron — basically said it’s really strange for someone to look stronger and faster when they are nearing 30, but Lebron’s doing it.

    3. Count de Pennies

      Re: PEDs.

      This set of photos (linked below) made the rounds on the internets a few years back. I’m sure some of you have seen ‘em already. It’s two pictures of Dwight Howard, taken around a year apart. In the first, he’s a svelte high schooler; in the second, a muscle-bound rookie with the Magic.

      The difference between the two images is striking, to say the least. I don’t know enough to say for certain that they alone constitute ironclad evidence of steroid use. Let’s just say I’m skeptical that there’s any wholly natural workout regimen that could produce such a dramatic change in body type in so short a time.

      Howard’s recent history would certainly support the conjecture that he was juicing. Dude went from being an iron man who almost never missed a game in his first seven seasons to Mr. Glass. We could be witnessing the physical breakdown that frequently occurs in the bodies of PED users as they grow older.

      At any rate, the notion that NBA players are so morally upright that they have eschewed the same illicit advantages chosen by MLB and NFL players en masse over the last two decades is highly suspect. It seems inarguable that more than few NBAers are juicing. And that likely includes more than one or two stars such as Howard.

      http://www.beforeafters.com/people/athletes/dwight-howard-steroids/

    4. Owen

      That is funny…

      DRed: Any system that ranks Landry’s fiance as a supermodel is so ridiculous that it’s not even worthy of discussion.

    5. DRed

      Count de Pennies:
      Re: PEDs.

      This set of photos (linked below) made the rounds on the internets a few years back. I’m sure some of you have seen ‘em already. It’s two pictures of Dwight Howard, taken around a year apart. In the first, he’s a svelte high schooler; in the second, a muscle-bound rookie with the Magic.

      The difference between the two images is striking, to say the least. I don’t know enough to say for certain that they alone constitute ironclad evidence of steroid use. Let’s just say I’m skeptical that there’s any wholly natural workout regimen that could produce such a dramatic change in body type in so short a time.

      Howard’s recent history would certainly support the conjecture that he was juicing.Dude went from being an iron man who almost never missed a game in his first seven seasons to Mr. Glass. We could be witnessing the physical breakdown that frequently occurs in the bodies of PED users as they grow older.

      At any rate, the notion that NBA players are so morally upright that they have eschewed the same illicit advantages chosen by MLB and NFL players en masse over the last two decades is highly suspect. It seems inarguable that more than few NBAers are juicing. And that likely includes more than one or two stars such as Howard.

      http://www.beforeafters.com/people/athletes/dwight-howard-steroids/

      The NBA doesn’t test for a lot of PEDs, and their existing program has some significant flaws, so it takes a lot of willful blindness to imagine the NBA isn’t rife with users. There’s very little downside to using if you’re and NBA player (at least in the short term)

    6. nicos

      Count de Pennies:
      Re: PEDs.

      This set of photos (linked below) made the rounds on the internets a few years back. I’m sure some of you have seen ‘em already. It’s two pictures of Dwight Howard, taken around a year apart. In the first, he’s a svelte high schooler; in the second, a muscle-bound rookie with the Magic.

      The difference between the two images is striking, to say the least. I don’t know enough to say for certain that they alone constitute ironclad evidence of steroid use. Let’s just say I’m skeptical that there’s any wholly natural workout regimen that could produce such a dramatic change in body type in so short a time.
      http://www.beforeafters.com/people/athletes/dwight-howard-steroids/

      While I don’t doubt that some guys are juicing those photos are pretty unconvincing- he’s already pretty big in the first photo and give an 18 year old- one who’s already a physical freak- a professional trainer/nutritionist specifically looking to add bulk and you’re likely see some pretty dramatic changes pretty quickly. Make those same changes when you’re in your 30’s (aka Barry Bonds) then there’s little doubt.

    7. nicos

      Oh no doubt and it’s certainly possible that Howard has used PEDs. Just saying that if I was looking for evidence of steroid use I’m not sure I’d start with two photos of an 18/19 year old who may have had access to advanced training 24/7 for the first time. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a fair number of guys are exposed to steroids in the AAU circuit which Howard was a part of- there are certainly plenty of shady characters floating around who’d be more than happy to provide drugs in exchange for access to potential millionaires.

    8. Brian Cronin

      I don’t think there’s a single player in the NBA who would shock me if I learned that they were using PEDs. Some of them I’ll admit I’d be a bit surprised by (like I’d be surprised if Melo was juicing as he’s always had a bit of that baby fat look that’s pretty rare for steroid users) but none that would shock me.

      Simply put, if the league is not going to stringently test for them, players are going to use them. Heck, even when there is strict testing, players will use them (just likely not as many).

    9. Brian Cronin

      With Curry, would you really be surprised if he used, say, HGH, while recovering from his knee injury?

      And yeah, the skinny lanky three point shooters of the NBA (Novak, Korver, Morrow) would definitely be in the realm of players I’d be a bit surprised by.

      Looking at the Knick roster, Novak and Melo are the only two I’d be surprised by. Even Prigs I wouldn’t be surprised by.

      Heck, honestly, I’d put odds that Amar’e has used a substance that is banned by Major League Baseball, if only HGH (which is not really in the same ballpark as the other PEDs, but is still a banned substance).

    10. d-mar

      DRed:
      I’d be mildly shocked if Novak or Eddy Curry were juicing.

      Unless you consider the inside of a jelly donut “juice”

    11. DRed

      Brian Cronin:
      With Curry, would you really be surprised if he used, say, HGH, while recovering from his knee injury?

      And yeah, the skinny lanky three point shooters of the NBA (Novak, Korver, Morrow) would definitely be in the realm of players I’d be a bit surprised by.

      Looking at the Knick roster, Novak and Melo are the only two I’d be surprised by. Even Prigs I wouldn’t be surprised by.

      Heck, honestly, I’d put odds that Amar’e has used a substance that is banned by Major League Baseball, if only HGH (which is not really in the same ballpark as the other PEDs, but is still a banned substance).

      If Francisco Cervelli was juicing I’m past being really surprised if any professional athlete was.

    12. Frank

      Brian Cronin:
      I don’t think there’s a single player in the NBA who would shock me if I learned that they were using PEDs. Some of them I’ll admit I’d be a bit surprised by (like I’d be surprised if Melo was juicing as he’s always had a bit of that baby fat look that’s pretty rare for steroid users) but none that would shock me.

      Simply put, if the league is not going to stringently test for them, players are going to use them. Heck, even when there is strict testing, players will use them (just likely not as many).

      One sort of interesting thought is how generally disappointing the Americans have looked in Olympic basketball — I know the rest of the world is catching up and all, but it is worth considering that the Olympic drug testing is WAAAAAAAY more sophisticated and comprehensive than the NBA’s program. That’s obviously a far leap, but sort of interesting nonetheless.

    13. flossy

      nicos: While I don’t doubt that some guys are juicing those photos are pretty unconvincing- he’s already pretty big in the first photo and give an 18 year old- one who’s already a physical freak- a professional trainer/nutritionist specifically looking to add bulk and you’re likely see some pretty dramatic changes pretty quickly.Make those same changes when you’re in your 30?s (aka Barry Bonds) then there’s little doubt.

      True. I put on a ton of muscle when I was 19, without steroids, or even a weight room, just by taking a summer job as a carpenter. I can’t think of a better age to get totally jacked, especially if you’re already an insane physical specimen like Howard.

      That being said, surely NBA players are taking PEDs. As a fan, it doesn’t actually bother me that much. Science has always given enterprising athletes ways to get an edge, and in the case of the NBA it probably improves the product on the court without the drawbacks of the NFL (where it makes players more effective at liquifying each other’s brains).

    14. thenamestsam

      Brian Cronin:
      I don’t think there’s a single player in the NBA who would shock me if I learned that they were using PEDs. Some of them I’ll admit I’d be a bit surprised by (like I’d be surprised if Melo was juicing as he’s always had a bit of that baby fat look that’s pretty rare for steroid users) but none that would shock me.

      Melky Cabrera? Hedo? Bartolo Colon? David Ortiz? This is why the picture method of hunting for steroid abusers is stupid. For every guy who has been caught that looks like a bodybuilder there’s 1 guy who’s a little on the chubby side (or downright fat) and 3 other guys who are skinny latino minor leaguers. The physical profile is MUCH less specific than people are acting like it is.

      If Rashard Lewis was using why couldn’t Novak be?

    15. thenamestsam

      flossy: True.I put on a ton of muscle when I was 19, without steroids, or even a weight room, just by taking a summer job as a carpenter.I can’t think of a better age to get totally jacked, especially if you’re already an insane physical specimen like Howard.

      That being said, surely NBA players are taking PEDs.As a fan, it doesn’t actually bother me that much.Science has always given enterprising athletes ways to get an edge, and in the case of the NBA it probably improves the product on the court without the drawbacks of the NFL (where it makes players more effective at liquifying each other’s brains).

      Couldn’t agree more. I’d be much more convinced if there was some more hard evidence about negative impacts on long term health. But absent that it’s just drawing arbitrary lines in the sand. They’re all taking supplements out the ass, using incredibly advanced surgical techniques and training methods to maintain their health and recover from injuries, doing exercises that weren’t invented a decade ago, having their meals prepared by nutritionists and on and on. What goal are we achieving by allowing all of those things and then taking this one thing, setting it to the side and saying it’s off limits?

    16. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      thenamestsam: Couldn’t agree more. I’d be much more convinced if there was some more hard evidence about negative impacts on long term health. But absent that it’s just drawing arbitrary lines in the sand. They’re all taking supplements out the ass, using incredibly advanced surgical techniques and training methods to maintain their health and recover from injuries, doing exercises that weren’t invented a decade ago, having their meals prepared by nutritionists and on and on. What goal are we achieving by allowing all of those things and then taking this one thing, setting it to the side and saying it’s off limits?

      I did a lesson with a class about defining the terms “performance-enhancing,” “drug,” and “competitive advantage.” Most of my students entered the class with a strict anti-steroids attitude, but the only ones who left with it were the ones who simply believed that they were “wrong” or “unethical” to use.

      I think the reality is that very few people have a grasp on what anabolic steroids and hGH therapy can achieve safely, and the instances in which abuse is the norm (which is, unfortunately, what we see all over the media) become our definition of what PED use is. I powerlift several days a week and I wouldn’t dream of using anabolics, but I also don’t see a huge difference between them and my legal supplements beyond the risk.

      I think that even if PEDs (as they’re currently defined by, say, the NBA) were legalized and regulated, players would still abuse them. Any system that rewards competitive advantage more than it penalizes the caught abusers will have abuse. Look at off-label use of prescription pills. The big-time pharmaceutical companies get hit with multi-billion dollar fines yet the incentive to “cheat” is still there because they’re taking in much more than they’re paying out.

    17. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      (And this is why I love sport and likely always will: big time questions about politics, power, epistemology and ethics that are very difficult to solve. Much more interesting than the vicarious I-win-when-my-team-wins attitude I had as a younger man.)

    18. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      flossy: True. I put on a ton of muscle when I was 19, without steroids, or even a weight room, just by taking a summer job as a carpenter. I can’t think of a better age to get totally jacked, especially if you’re already an insane physical specimen like Howard.

      I believe that natural hGH production maxes out at age 20 (or around there, on average).

      I think we should also keep in mind that he has a ridiculously mesomorphic body type and, even more importantly, a low natural body-fat number, so any increase in muscle mass is going to show immediately. If he began eating the quality of food that a professional athlete can afford and began doing high-level strength training, there’s no reason that a man of that size couldn’t add 20-30 pounds over the course of a year. That’s a lot of eating, but it’s certainly possible.

    19. Owen

      Michael Jordan trolling like a true champion….

      DRed: Jordan knows he can always use the ‘count the rings’ argument about Lebron.

    20. BigBlueAL

      Deep down Michael Jordan really thinks who cares about whose better between Kobe and LeBron because neither one are anywhere near as good as I am lol.

    21. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      DRed: Jordan knows he can always use the ‘count the rings’ argument about Lebron.

      It makes me hope that LeBron wins seven. LeBron may have forever tarnished his image with The Decision, but at least he’s not a total degenerate gambler like Jordan or a likely-rapist-and-certainly-serial-adulterer like Kobe. Maybe he’s secretly a terrible person, but if he is, I’m certainly fooled by his family-first demeanor.

    22. Z-man

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: It makes me hope that LeBron wins seven. LeBron may have forever tarnished his image with The Decision, but at least he’s not a total degenerate gambler like Jordan or a likely-rapist-and-certainly-serial-adulterer like Kobe. Maybe he’s secretly a terrible person, but if he is, I’m certainly fooled by his family-first demeanor.

      He’s young yet, give him time. MJ’s rep was impeccable at LeBron’s age.

    23. Owen

      My wife gave me a Tyson Chandler jersey and is insisting we watch the Heat-Thunder game. Married a good one.

      I never was quite buying the KD as best player in the NBA feeling that was coming on, though he definitely was looking like it through the first 40 games.

      What Lebron is doing right now is completely sick. The jumpers he has put in tonight should never go in. I have never seen a guy play better. It can’t last, but it is pretty much miraculous to behold.

      Don’t know or care if he is juicing but I think, like Bonds, he is the best with or without the juice. And I don’t care much. Basketball is not cycling….

      .

    24. jon abbey

      so where are all the people here who were trying to tell us a month or two ago that Miami was actually bad and not just bored?

    25. DRed

      Owen:
      My wife gave me a Tyson Chandler jersey and is insisting we watch the Heat-Thunder game. Married a good one.

      I never was quite buying the KD as best player in the NBA feeling that was coming on, though he definitely was looking like it through the first 40 games.

      What Lebron is doing right now is completely sick. The jumpers he has put in tonight should never go in. I have never seen a guy play better. It can’t last, but it is pretty much miraculous to behold.

      Don’t know or care if he is juicing but I think, like Bonds, he is the best with or without the juice. And I don’t care much. Basketball is not cycling….

      .

      I have no idea how old you were, but you should look up the season Jordan put up in 88-89. The weird thing about Jordan, looking back on it, is that people remember him best from his later championship years, when he was already long past his prime. Late 80s Jordan was something to behold.

    26. Owen

      Yeah, I know. There have been many great players. But there is thing called recency bias. I suffer from it.

      Especially when Lebron drains a 27 footer as the Thunder mount a comeback….

    27. DRed

      Kevin Martin can’t get it done against elite teams.

      What’s funny is that I started writing this (as an obvious joke), but while I was typing Reggie Miller started talking about how Kevin Martin hasn’t proven he can play in the post season

    28. d-mar

      Do you guys think if LeBron had decided to come to NY and brought us a championship, he would have been celebrated as the #1 athlete in NY sports history? I know some will say Jeter, but a single baseball player has a lot less impact than a single basketball player. I personally think he would have been a god in NY, ahead of Jeter, Mantle, DiMaggio, Namath, Frazier, Messier,etc. in the NY sports pantheon.

    29. Owen

      Yes. And I think he made a big mistake not coming here….

      d-mar:
      Do you guys think if LeBron had decided to come to NY and brought us a championship, he would have been celebrated as the #1 athlete in NY sports history? I know some will say Jeter, but a single baseball player has a lot less impact than a single basketball player. I personally think he would have been a god in NY, ahead of Jeter, Mantle, DiMaggio, Namath, Frazier, Messier,etc. in the NY sports pantheon.

    30. jon abbey

      a huge mistake, he would have instantly been the best player in the history of the franchise from day 1 and a permanent NYC legend after winning one title.

    31. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I believe that natural hGH production maxes out at age 20 (or around there, on average).

      I think we should also keep in mind that he has a ridiculously mesomorphic body type and, even more importantly, a low natural body-fat number, so any increase in muscle mass is going to show immediately. If he began eating the quality of food that a professional athlete can afford and began doing high-level strength training, there’s no reason that a man of that size couldn’t add 20-30 pounds over the course of a year. That’s a lot of eating, but it’s certainly possible.

      I appreciate many of your responses in this thread, but I think you went out of your element at the end, Donnie.

      It’s long been known that a full time bodybuilder can add 15 pounds of lean muscle mass in a 12 month period. That is the pysiological limit.

      People can add 20-30 pounds on a year of course by lifting heavily, but much of it, even at the highest macro protein levels, will be converted to fat.

    32. Brian Cronin

      It makes me hope that LeBron wins seven. LeBron may have forever tarnished his image with The Decision, but at least he’s not a total degenerate gambler like Jordan or a likely-rapist-and-certainly-serial-adulterer like Kobe. Maybe he’s secretly a terrible person, but if he is, I’m certainly fooled by his family-first demeanor.

      If I wouldn’t be shocked by any NBA player using PEDs, I would not even be a little surprised by any NBA player cheating on his wife. I mean, maybe traveling salesmen are the worst when it comes to not cheating on their wives (or worst AT cheating on their wives? Whichever one means that they cheat on their wives a lot), but professional athletes are pretty darn close. I don’t necessarily think that Lebron has cheated on his fiancee, but I sure as heck wouldn’t claim otherwise. Look at all the stories back in the day about Ewing and his wife. They sounded like the perfect couple and Ewing seemed like an upright dude and Ewing was cheating on her constantly. And that’s with a longtime married couple. Lebron’s not even married!

      That said, sure, he’ll always have the “likely never sexually assaulted a girl” advantage over Kobe.

    33. Brian Cronin

      Melky Cabrera? Hedo? Bartolo Colon? David Ortiz? This is why the picture method of hunting for steroid abusers is stupid. For every guy who has been caught that looks like a bodybuilder there’s 1 guy who’s a little on the chubby side (or downright fat) and 3 other guys who are skinny latino minor leaguers. The physical profile is MUCH less specific than people are acting like it is.

      If Rashard Lewis was using why couldn’t Novak be?

      Colon was a pretty unique example, wasn’t he? The guy didn’t pitch for a couple of years and came back throwing harder than he had before he stopped. That was a major red flag. If he had been caught back in the day, then yeah, I’d be surprised. Not when he came back at age 64 and was throwing 90 when he last hit 90 when he was in his late 20s.

      But yes, I agree that other body types could also be using steroids, which is why I wouldn’t be shocked by anyone, but I would still be a bit surprised.

      Lewis’ body is a lot different than Novak. Lewis was explosive. He didn’t just shoot threes. The guys who just shoot threes are the ones I would be a bit surprised by (well, so long as they don’t have injury history. Pretty much any guy with an injury history likely took some sort of banned substance to recover, so I bet Steph Curry likely took something that MLB would deem a banned substance).

    34. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ruruland: It’s long been known that a full time bodybuilder can add 15 pounds of lean muscle mass in a 12 month period. That is the pysiological limit.
      People can add 20-30 pounds on a year of course by lifting heavily, but much of it, even at the highest macro protein levels, will be converted to fat.

      You are so full of shit it makes me want to set myself on fire. Substantiate your claim.

    35. Juany8

      By the way in Arnold Schwarzenegger’s autobiography, he wrote that the max weight he ever gained was 25 pounds in a year, using steroids and his own personal super genes of course. I’m not anywhere near an expert, but I’m guessing that means gaining 30 pounds of lean muscle in a year is a little preposterous (depending on your height of course, it would be less of a percentage of Dwight than Novak)

      Quite a bit of that gain would have to be fat for you to gain 30 pounds

    36. Juany8

      On that note, Dwight, Lebron, and Westbrook are probably the fastest, strongest players for their size ever to play in the NBA. There’s better nutrition and training now of course, but it would be quite the coincidence if all of the best athletes ever (not in terms of skill or production but raw athletic ability) were being born around the same time. Seems like a bit less of a coincidence when you consider how lax the NBA drug rules are. This isn’t totally related, but I can still remember Josh Howard saying that everyone in the NBA smoked weed. Weed is also one of the easiest drugs to get caught for, especially in a piss test. If a bunch of NBA players can get away with smoking weed, they could also get away with things like HGH pretty easily

    37. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8:
      By the way in Arnold Schwarzenegger’s autobiography, he wrote that the max weight he ever gained was 25 pounds in a year, using steroids and his own personal super genes of course. I’m not anywhere near an expert, but I’m guessing that means gaining 30 pounds of lean muscle in a year is a little preposterous (depending on your height of course, it would be less of a percentage of Dwight than Novak)

      Quite a bit of that gain would have to be fat for you to gain 30 pounds

      It’s much harder to gain 25 lbs. when you’re already huge than it is when you’re an 18-year-old, lanky kid who’s 6’10” and has never lifted outside of a high school gym. The first size any person puts on is the easiest.

      It is MUCH more likely that Dwight Howard, at his size and fitness level, could gain 25 lbs. in a year than Arnold could mid-career.

    38. Donnie Walsh

      Juany8:
      Dwight, Lebron, and Westbrook are probably the fastest, strongest players for their size ever to play in the NBA. There’s better nutrition and training now of course… But I can still remember Josh Howard saying that everyone in the NBA smoked weed. Weed is also one of the easiest drugs to get caught for, especially in a piss test. If a bunch of NBA players can get away with smoking weed, they could also get away with things like HGH pretty easily

      Plus, the players that are physically over-performing because of their diet (Nash, Griffin, etc) probably aren’t the ones smoking weed, because it counterbalances the effects of their nutrition on their performance. (plus, marijuana is a gateway drug, remember, so it no doubt leads, ultimately, to steroids!)

    39. flossy

      Donnie Walsh: Plus, the players that are physically over-performing because of their diet (Nash, Griffin, etc) probably aren’t the ones smoking weed, because it counterbalances the effects of their nutrition on their performance. (plus, marijuana is a gateway drug, remember, so it no doubt leads, ultimately, to steroids!)

      Can you explain what you mean by Griffin over-performing because of his diet? He seems to me like he belongs in the LeBron/Howard group of “are you kidding me?” athletic specimens.

    40. Douglas

      flossy:
      I remember reading one summer (2000, maybe?) that Marcus Camby said he’d put on 25 lbs of muscle.Hah!

      It probably wasn’t all muscle. 25 pounds of mass, sure, 15-20 of which was lean muscle mass.

    41. DRed

      In college a, um, good friend of mine sometimes smoked weed with some very athletic NBA players. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if Steve Nash liked to get high on occasion.

    42. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      jon abbey: no

      The original comment was facetious, so I think we can end this discussion here before someone actually tries to argue that pot leads to heroin.

      Also, it would be impossible for a man of my height to put on 20 lbs in a year. I could see a guy of Howard’s stature having a much easier time of it. His muscles are long.

    43. ruruland

      You people are honestly going to believe someone who claims that it’s more difficult for a tall person to put on weight?

      For most of us that myth was resolved in grade school.
      Jowles, tall people can add the same amount of weight as anyone else, all things being equal.

      The 15 pound max pure lean muscle mass has been verified quite a few times over years, regardless of what you see on different forums and advertisements.

      Obviously, it’s almost impossible to just add lean muscle mass without any fat due to the needed caloric surplus. That’s why every serious bodybuilder in the work bulks and them cuts…. meaning cuts the fat he added while also adding muscle.

      The fact that Jowles didn’t mention any of this when talking about weight gain and thinks tall people can’t gain weight as easily,well, draw your own conclusions.

    44. Owen

      Always fun with you two, like ships in the night….

      Ruruland:

      “You people are honestly going to believe someone who claims that it’s more difficult for a tall person to put on weight?”

      THCJ:

      “It’s much harder to gain 25 lbs. when you’re already huge than it is when you’re an 18-year-old, lanky kid who’s 6’10? and has never lifted outside of a high school gym. The first size any person puts on is the easiest.

      It is MUCH more likely that Dwight Howard, at his size and fitness level, could gain 25 lbs. in a year than Arnold could mid-career.”

    45. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: It’s much harder to gain 25 lbs. when you’re already huge than it is when you’re an 18-year-old, lanky kid who’s 6’10? and has never lifted outside of a high school gym. The first size any person puts on is the easiest.

      It is MUCH more likely that Dwight Howard, at his size and fitness level, could gain 25 lbs. in a year than Arnold could mid-career.

      I actually don’t disagree with this, I did mention that because of Dwight’s height 25 pounds of muscle for him wouldn’t be as ridiculous. It would probably be better to do this little analysis in terms of percentage of total weight instead of raw mass totals lol.

    46. Donnie Walsh

      flossy: Can you explain what you mean by Griffin over-performing because of his diet?He seems to me like he belongs in the LeBron/Howard group of “are you kidding me?” athletic specimens.

      Griffin’s mother is a nutritionist. He doesn’t eat red meat. He eats minimal sugar. He is very conscious about how diet effects performance. He has publicly questioned the dietary habits of other players (Lamar Odom). (Lamar Odom, fwiw, was considered an “are you kidding me” specimen coming out of college— he’s been a pretty good nba player, but there was probably a lot of potential with him that went unrealized)

    47. Donnie Walsh

      DRed:
      In college a, um, good friend of mine sometimes smoked weed with some very athletic NBA players.It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if Steve Nash liked to get high on occasion.

      w/o a doubt. But, I suspect, especially at his age, that he does it “seasonally”. The “Steve Nash Diet” is quite famous now, and since marijuana effects one’s appetite, and therefore also effects one’s diet.

      That said, I suppose Steve Nash would probably suspect #1 in a PED investigation. He peaked in his 30s and has been able to sustain his peak almost into his 40s. Physical freak? Devotion to diet and exercise? Or cheater?

    48. ruruland

      Owen:
      Always fun with you two, like ships in the night….

      Ruruland:

      “You people are honestly going to believe someone who claims that it’s more difficult for a tall person to put on weight?”

      THCJ:

      “It’s much harder to gain 25 lbs. when you’re already huge than it is when you’re an 18-year-old, lanky kid who’s 6’10? and has never lifted outside of a high school gym. The first size any person puts on is the easiest.

      It is MUCH more likely that Dwight Howard, at his size and fitness level, could gain 25 lbs. in a year than Arnold could mid-career.”

      Actually, Jowles is right about beginning lifters. They can achieve muscle gain in caloric deficits while losing fat. It has nothing to do with converting fat to muscle, as someone who thinks tall people cannot put on weight would believe.

      This is what you missed, what I was referring to: “Also, it would be impossible for a man of my height to put on 20 lbs in a year.”

    49. DRed

      With Dwight, it’s certainly possible that a tremendously athletic, gigantic young man could put on 20lbs or so weight in a year while in his late teens. It’s also quite possible that he was on some sort of PEDs, or that he starting using them when he got to the league. We heard all these arguments about modern nutrition and training regimens concerning MLB players and then it turned out that most of them were actually using PEDs. It’s likely that the same thing is true in the NBA.

    50. Owen

      “This is what you missed, what I was referring to: “Also, it would be impossible for a man of my height to put on 20 lbs in a year.”

      I must have missed something. I read this to mean that THCJ is shorter than average, given what he said about Dwight Howard and the ability of tall people to put on weight.

      As a connoisseur of pointless online arguments, I must pronounce myself highly satisfied with this one. This really has it all….

    51. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Owen:
      “This is what you missed, what I was referring to: “Also, it would be impossible for a man of my height to put on 20 lbs in a year.”

      I must have missed something. I read this to mean that THCJ is shorter than average, given what he said about Dwight Howard and the ability of tall people to put on weight.

      As a connoisseur of pointless online arguments, I must pronounce myself highly satisfied with this one. This really has it all….

      I’m around average height: about 5’10”. Useless note: when I play pickup basketball, I’m usually the guy forced to play point guard who has the ball skills of Andray Blatche. I do set a lot of picks, though, and my shooting form is pretty good within 20 feet, so I’m not totally useless.

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