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Tuesday, July 29, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Aug 16 2012)

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: Knicks’ Stoudemire Working to Put New Spin on His Career (Thu, 16 Aug 2012 05:09:06 GMT)
    Amar’e Stoudemire, the pick-and-rolling, power-dunking star, is now a student of the low post, and his teacher is the Hall of Famer Hakeem Olajuwon.

  • 46 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Aug 16 2012)

    1. ephus

      Sam Amick has a long, glowing profile of Rob Hennigan, the new Magic GM, and defense of the Howard trade.

      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/08/15/dwight-howard-rob-hennigan-orlando-magic/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a4

      According to the article, the Rockets’ offer was not nearly as strong as what was previously reported. Amick reports that the Rockets did not include Lamb in their offer, and only two first round picks (although they might have gone for a third to get the deal done). Mostly, the Rockets were offering salary cap space to take more of the Magic’s bad contracts.

      Not surprisingly, Morey does not directly address the particular players that he included in his offer.

      It certainly appears that multiple teams (Bobcats, Magic & Rockets) have adopted the Thunder model. We could have three 60 loss teams this season.

    2. d-mar

      The article about Amare working on his post up game with Hakeem was very positive and made me feel good about Stat coming back strong this year, but are we really going to run an offense that dumps the ball into Amare on the low block? That would be a departure for Woodson. I guess it’s always an option, but Amare has always been most effective in the pick and roll where he dives to the basket or pops out for a jumper (which we all hope he’ll rediscover this season)

      Either way, the fact that he’s spending 2 solid weeks down there, working 3 hours a day on his post moves is very encouraging.

    3. Juany8

      d-mar:
      The article about Amare working on his post up game with Hakeem was very positive and made me feel good about Stat coming back strong this year, but are we really going to run an offense that dumps the ball into Amare on the low block? That would be a departure for Woodson. I guess it’s always an option, but Amare has always been most effective in the pick and roll where he dives to the basket or pops out for a jumper (which we all hope he’ll rediscover this season)

      Either way, the fact that he’s spending 2 solid weeks down there, working 3 hours a day on his post moves is very encouraging.

      It helped Lebron, and he doesn’t exactly go down in the post that often. It’s a nice weapon to have, I doubt it’ll be seriously featured in any way unless Chandler and Melo are resting, in which case it would be a useful option

    4. Jafa

      @ ephus,

      I don’t think the Rockets will lose 60. They won 34 games last year in a 66 game season (equivalent to 42 wins in an 82 game season), switched starting PGs, lost both their Cs and amnestied their starting PF. Still, in their conference, they either are better or could be better than New Orleans, Sacramento, Golden State, Minny, Portland, Phoenix, Dallas and Utah.

      I’m not saying they will make the playoffs (actually, I will say they will not make the playoffs), just that they are probably not losing 60 games, barring injury of course. In my estimation, 45-50 games lost is a better prediction.

    5. knicknyk

      45-50 games. Really? I don’t see that at all. There bench is filled with rookies led by Tony Douglas. I don’t see them winning more than 40 games to be honest. There starting 5 isn’t bad.

      PG:Lin
      SG (martin or delfino or Lamb)
      SF Parsons
      PF Patterson or one of there rookies
      C Asik

      They have a nice young core though. Lin Lamb Donatas Royce Jones. If they all stick around and develop nicely with one another who knows maybe in two years…

      And I wouldn’t say that they are better than Dallas, Utah or Minny. Likely LAL LAC OKC Spurs Mavs Utah Denver Minny Memphis will be in the playoffs.

    6. thenamestsam

      knicknyk:
      45-50 games. Really? I don’t see that at all. There bench is filled with rookies led by Tony Douglas. I don’t see them winning more than 40 games to be honest. There starting 5 isn’t bad.

      PG:Lin
      SG (martin or delfino or Lamb)
      SF Parsons
      PF Patterson or one of there rookies
      C Asik

      They have a nice young core though. Lin Lamb Donatas Royce Jones. If they all stick around and develop nicely with one another who knows maybe in two years…

      And I wouldn’t say that they are better than Dallas, Utah or Minny. Likely LAL LAC OKC Spurs Mavs Utah Denver Minny Memphis will be in the playoffs.

      He said 45-50 games lost. So you’re both on pretty much the same page.

    7. Jafa

      Like everyone said, I meant 45-50 games lost, meaning 32-37 games won. And I think a better line up for them would be:

      PG – Lin
      SG – Martin
      SF – Patterson
      PF – Motiejunas
      C – Asik
      Bench – Delfino, Parsons, Morris and Williams.

      I’d rather have Motiejunas start and move Parsons to the bench, and would not play Toney Douglas at all as he has not shown the ability to run a team and this team has an excess of 2 guards (Lamb sitting onthe bench). Delfino could come in handy as an extra ball handler or I’d use Shaun Livingston before handing the rock to TD.

    8. ephus

      d-mar: The article about Amare working on his post up game with Hakeem was very positive and made me feel good about Stat coming back strong this year, but are we really going to run an offense that dumps the ball into Amare on the low block? That would be a departure for Woodson.

      Since the article says that Woodson suggested that Amar’e go work with Hakeem, I assume that Woodson plans to use Amar’e in the post, if he has developed the moves.

    9. knicknyk

      Oh games lost I understand. Yes then on that we are on agreement. No they wouldn’t put Parsons to the bench. He earned that starting spot last year. He had a good rookie season, I remember watching the Rockets vs Lakers game and twice Kobe gave him compliments I believe on his defense and his general skills as a rookie. The issue with Lin and Martin in the backcourt is defense and I think that Martin will be gone prior to the season starts but who knows. If Martin is gone they should start Delfino because of his good defense. I don’t see Parsons coming off the bench, I highly doubt that happens. But I do agree with you that Montejunas would be a good decision to start at PF next to Asik.

    10. Jafa

      A reminder of our recent futility:

      http://www.82games.com/futility.htm

      San Antonio putting all the big market teams to shame. LA is 2nd, exhibiting the art of fleecing teams in trades/FA. Cleveland and Orlando show you what can happen if you just draft the right superstar.

      And we are lumped up with Portland, Milwaukee and Toronto at the bottom. It’s just sad, considering those teams have legitimate excuses, like unattractive FA locations (all 3), injuries to key players (Portland) and key players wanting out of your team (Toronto). What’s our excuse?

    11. ruruland

      A healthy percentage of Amar’e's shots are going to turn into post-ups regardless of how Woodson intends to use him, as they have every year of his career.

      When he meets the help defense in the roll and still gets the pass, often because passers recognize his skill and athleticism (when they wouldn’t normally make such a pass), his momentum towards the basket comes to a stop. Amar’e is great at the one-dribble “get-around” move where he avoids contact, but it doesn’t work when there is a help defender because Amar’e has to get right to the basket– that’s when you see him force turnovers and highly-contested shots at the basket without any momentum.

      Second, a healthy portion of Amar’e isolations turn into post-ups. Amar’e is virtually unstoppable when he gets his shoulder into a turned defender. But when he can’t, he forces a lot of bad, off-balance jump shots trying to draw a foul.

      Amar’e was actually one of the most efficient post-up players in the league in both 2011 and 2010, and did so without a whole lot of moves and countermoves.

      Hakeem was not a traditional post-up player. He often faced the basket before going into a move, using his amazing feet, length and array of counter-moves and spins.

      Amar’e is a natural fit to adopt Hakeem’s style of post-up game because so many of the Dream’s moves are interchangeable with face-up drives. You don’t need to START the play wih your back to the basket to use them. In fact, using the face up gives makes many of the moves more effective.

      Amar’e footwork should be significantly enhanced, and he’ll have a lot more scoring options when his initial drive is thwarted or if opponents are overplaying him a certain way.

      Woodson recognized early I’m sure how perfect the fit would be between Amar’e's normal face-up game and Hakeem’s footwork.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGLYpLTh244

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-2rBfkLiY

    12. ruruland

      Almost all of Hakeem’s pivot moves were initiated after facing the basket.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7tPZ-KljR0&feature=related

      Amar’e has been an incredibly effective offensive players his whole career (not counting uncontested dunks on dives) despite being limited to basically using his shoulder width and strength and explosiveness, a jump shot, and a little mini-right handed hook when he’s deep.

      BTW, I think Javale McGee is going to be amazing next season, too.

    13. formido

      Juany8: Thomas B.:
      Interesting. Those synergy numbers really do tell a tale.

      http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/34797/jeremy-lin-on-the-rockets-part-ii

      I knew he was a pretty bad defender, but it seems he’s outright terrible. If nothing else, Kidd and Felton should be better defenders than anyone at the point last year (seriously, Baron Davis was the team’s best defensive PG last year, that’s pretty sad)

      Haha. No, he’s not a “pretty bad defender” if by “pretty bad defender” you mean “someone whose presence allows the opposing team to score more points while he’s on the court”. I knew the usual suspects would eat that part of the report up, and I don’t mean to change their minds, but for neutral folks who like to examine the facts, here goes:

      First of all, point guards aren’t defensive stoppers. You don’t want them to be defensive stoppers because, among other reasons, what happens if they get into foul trouble? Iman Shumpert played next to Lin last year and was amazing at on the ball defense, but he also got yanked regularly for picking up quick fouls.

      Second, this article is baloney. There’s a reason this guy is an assistant at the D-league level. Isolation defense is a great stat to evaluate someone’s defensive abilities? Tosh. Maybe if we were playing street ball? Picking isolation defense as the exclisive criteria for someone’s defensive prowess when there is lots of other information available is bizarre. Great isolation defenders certainly are exciting, and I assume that’s why some folks fetishize those players so much, kind of like preferring the best dunker over the one who contributes the most to winning.

      As a matter of fact, according to Synergy, Lin was in the top third for opponent points allowed among players. For example, that’s way better than Ray Felton:

      Defense Last…

    14. formido

      Defense Last Season
      Felton Lin
      Opp Pts per play 0.86 0.82
      Opp PPP rank* 133rd 78th
      Opp FG pct 41.6 37.8
      * Of 235 players to defend at least 300 plays

      [http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/46697/felton-over-lin-might-be-a-mistake]

      The only thing that matters is how you contribute to keeping the whole other team from scoring efficiently. Not just on ball isolation defense. All defense. And “all defense” encompasses a lot more scoring than isolation defense. Anyone who’s played basketball at a high level, and is one of those stereotypically “heady” players, understands how important calculating all potential scoring threats in real time is, and how you need to hedge and play angles to reduce the total threats. Here’s an article that talks about this in depth:

      [http://nbaplaybook.com/2012/06/15/time-for-more-collison/]

      Lin is really good at this aspect of defense, and I don’t think so just because he’s smart and went to Harvard, but because I’ve watched him play. Moreover, he had the number 1 defensive rating in the D-league when he spent significant minutes there:

      [http://www.nba.com/dleague/news/the_hidden_side_jeremy_lin_2012_02_15.html]

      Now, the stupid macho bro-ey response to that is “well that’s just the D-league”. No ****, and that’s why he didn’t have the number one defensive rating in the NBA last year. However, just like college stats, expression of abilities at closely preceding elite levels project at a meaningful fraction to the next level. Steve Nash would not have the number one defensive rating in the D-league[1].

      Pruitti made a point of claiming Lin’s lateral quickness is poor. That’s funny given that lateral quickness is very highly correlated with vertical jump score, and Lin’s is above average. And, feel free to rewatch Lin’s first game against Deron Williams. Several times Williams faces off against Lin and Mike Breen starts to make comments like “oh, this is a terrible mismatch”, only to have to…

    15. formido

      eat his words in the next few seconds and come back with “and Lin was surprisingly able to stay in front of him!” Fact is, even when Williams went off in the next meeting, Lin was staying in front of him, but you can’t stop step back hero three pointers. That’s not guardable. Lin also stayed in front of Derrick Rose quite well. The lateral quickness is fine. His on ball defense will get better as he gets more experience.

      Anyway, we have better information that eye tests and D-league stats: Last year with the Knicks. Was Lin effective on aggregate defensive production? Yes. The Knicks were a top 5 defensive team last year. With Lin on the floor, their defense got even better:

      [http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/john_schuhmann/07/19/knicks-amare-carmelo/index.html]]

      It starts to strain credulity when people try to explain away Lin’s defensive rating as just who he shares minutes with when the plus defensive rating follows him to other teams.

      The analysis in the last link brings up a crucial point. Yes, although he’s quite athletic, Lin is not Iman Shumpert. He needs tools to help him use his basketball IQ to limit opponent points, for example an effective shot blocking center that he can funnel his man to. To wit: “[Lin and Chandler] ranked … 16th of 470 two-man combinations that logged at least 600 minutes together last season.” Pretty good, no? Lin and Chandler had the best two man defensive rating on the Knicks, a top 5 defensive team. So at the very least, when paired with appropriate people, Lin is capable of leveraging other elite defenders to achieve elite defensive interaction affects. If Houston’s Asik is as good as advertised, he should do well there too.

      Of course, some of this is “subtle”, in the same sense points/48 is sublter than points per game, which is to say, not really all that subtle, but definitely way more correct. However, what’s going to happen is that people suffering from confirmation bias are only going to…

    16. formido

      remember the times that Lin gets beat off the dribble. And this being basketball, and basketball meaning you get beat off the dribble more often than not, I expect the “nyah, nyah, Lin sucks at defense” choruses to continue unabated. Irrefutable prior evidence notwithstanding.

      [1] At least, I assume. Maybe Nash’s defense has been unfairly deprecated due to the same biases that are routine in eye test based analaysis[1].
      [2] And, oh, by the way, if statistical analysis of basketball is missing so much, why did John Hollinger make the best predictions last year among 30 ESPN analysts, most of whom cobble together popular stats with their eye testing: http://blog.pundittracker.com/nba-pundits-2011-12-report-card/

    17. knicknyk

      Jafa:
      A reminder of our recent futility:

      http://www.82games.com/futility.htm

      San Antonio putting all the big market teams to shame.LA is 2nd, exhibiting the art of fleecing teams in trades/FA.Cleveland and Orlando show you what can happen if you just draft the right superstar.

      And we are lumped up with Portland, Milwaukee and Toronto at the bottom.It’s just sad, considering those teams have legitimate excuses, like unattractive FA locations (all 3), injuries to key players (Portland) and key players wanting out of your team (Toronto).What’s our excuse?

      Yes I saw this. It is depressing to be honest.

    18. Brian Cronin

      I knew that the Knicks had it rough, playoff-wise, but I didn’t know that they were tied for the longest time since winning a playoff series! Goddamn, that’s really kinda irksome.

    19. Jafa

      Ranking of International Rookie Class: http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/08/15/international-rookie-class-goes-well-beyond-2012-draftees/

      Pablo is ranked #9. Here’s the analysis on him:

      “The 35-year-old Prigioni will be the Knicks’ third-string point guard behind Raymond Felton and Jason Kidd. But Kidd isn’t going to play 82 games, so the Argentine will need to step up at some point. He’s likely to finish the season with more assists than field goal attempts, because you’ll have to dare him to shoot and dare him even more to attack the paint. But he’s a steady hand who will run the offense and get guys the ball where they want it.”

      The good news is that he will be a pass-first PG, especially with all the chuckers we have on this team, and he can run the offense. The bad news is we now have 3 PGs that are shy about attacking the paint. How easy will it be for opponents to defend our PGs?

    20. Jafa

      ruruland: inni

      But he did, once upon a time. Hence, he is fair game for discussion on this board. I will be honest, I didn’t read a thing formido posted – I’m allergic to long-winded posts.

    21. Juany8

      Formido, that was honestly a good post, but you showed literally no evidence that Lin is a good defender, and blasting Pruiti for going from a blogger to an assistant coach in the D-League is ridiculous, the guy is the best basketball analyst on the internet and he’s starting to get great jobs for it. Furthermore, ANY defensive stats are flawed, and the more you go macro (total PPP against, on-off defensive numbers) the more they are influenced by your teammates. Especially since Lin played a pretty significant portion of his games without Amar’e, who was a pretty damn bad defender.

      As far as the defense goes, I saw literally no evidence that he was any better than Nash, someone who’s good at being in the right place in the right time, but will get outright attacked by the offense whenever possible. For all the crap Melo gets, I can’t remember watching a single game the past year where Melo was specifically targeted by the offense (unless he was guarding someone like Lebron or Durant), while Fields, Lin, and Amar’e were put into pick and rolls pretty much every time down the court. Seriously though, Nash’s teams have had better defense with him on the floor than off too, Lin is a smart guy but he’s a weak individual defender at a position with the best offensive players in the league (Name the 10th best point guard, then name the 10th best SG and compare lol)

    22. Juany8

      Jafa:
      Ranking of International Rookie Class:http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/08/15/international-rookie-class-goes-well-beyond-2012-draftees/

      Pablo is ranked #9.Here’s the analysis on him:

      “The 35-year-old Prigioni will be the Knicks’ third-string point guard behind Raymond Felton and Jason Kidd. But Kidd isn’t going to play 82 games, so the Argentine will need to step up at some point. He’s likely to finish the season with more assists than field goal attempts, because you’ll have to dare him to shoot and dare him even more to attack the paint. But he’s a steady hand who will run the offense and get guys the ball where they want it.”

      The good news is that he will be a pass-first PG, especially with all the chuckers we have on this team, and he can run the offense.The bad news is we now have 3 PGs that are shy about attacking the paint.How easy will it be for opponents to defend our PGs?

      Still a lot harder than guarding TD (couldn’t dribble with his head up!!!!), Mike Bibby (corpse) and Baron Davis (coming off major injury). Seriously, a team that would have won around 50 games in a regular season last year dramatically improved their overall performance at their 2 worst spots. JR/Brewer is a lot better than an oft-injured rookie Shump (who was forced to play the point at times) and the suck-fest that was Landry Fields. Considering Melo and Amar’e also had major problems last year and Chandler had no real backup, it wouldn’t be surprising for this team to win 55 games. If everything goes perfectly (I don’t mean career years, more like OKC 2 years ago when none of their players got injured all year and people at minimum play to their expectations)

    23. Juany8

      formido:
      remember the times that Lin gets beat off the dribble. And this being basketball, and basketball meaning you get beat off the dribble more often than not, I expect the “nyah, nyah, Lin sucks at defense” choruses to continue unabated. Irrefutable prior evidence notwithstanding.

      [1] At least, I assume. Maybe Nash’s defense has been unfairly deprecated due to the same biases that are routine in eye test based analaysis[1].
      [2] And, oh, by the way, if statistical analysis of basketball is missing so much, why did John Hollinger make the best predictions last year among 30 ESPN analysts, most of whom cobble together popular stats with their eye testing: http://blog.pundittracker.com/nba-pundits-2011-12-report-card/

      If you ask THCJ, PER barely counts as an advanced stat. Hollinger’s real strength is that he no longer just looks at numbers. Just 2 years ago he called that the Hawks would beat the Magic in the playoffs because of their secret Dwight counter, a super old Jason Collins!!!! Seriously though, Hollinger’s opinions are no longer determined by pure statistics, he watches a lot and listens to coaches a lot to inform his opinion, and he’s not at all scared of saying his beloved PER has serious flaws and shouldn’t be followed dogmatically. Especially since PER is basically a fancier fantasy basketball score

    24. Jafa

      @27,

      You left out Lin in your PG rotation comparison :)

      Also, I’d take a healthy Shump over Brewer – at least there is hope that Shump can get better offensively.

      And I think Fields as a bench player, playing with Kidd/Pablo as his PG, would be very effective.

      I would not be surprised if we win 50+ games either – after all, our star player is Melo, whose Denver teams won 50+ games in almost every season he played there.

    25. jon abbey

      Jeremy Lin is never going to play 60 games in a NBA season if he plays 35+ minutes per game. that is my prediction.

    26. ruruland

      Jafa:
      @27,

      You left out Lin in your PG rotation comparison :)

      Also, I’d take a healthy Shump over Brewer – at least there is hope that Shump can get better offensively.

      And I think Fields as a bench player, playing with Kidd/Pablo as his PG, would be very effective.

      I would not be surprised if we win 50+ games either – after all, our star player is Melo, whose Denver teams won 50+ games in almost every season he played there.

      And I’d argue two things.

      1) It’s the best supporting cast he’s ever played with on both ends of the floor (maybe not quite the best offensively compared to the Afflalo, Billups, Nene, Lawson supporting cast, but far and away the best defensively)

      2)He’ll have the most efficient year of his career next season

      Two other predictions. The Knicks will finish top seven in offensive efficiency and top five in defensive efficiency, winning between 55 and 60 games.

    27. Jafa

      ruruland: And I’d argue two things.

      1) It’s the best supporting cast he’s ever played with on both ends of the floor (maybe not quite the best offensively compared to the Afflalo, Billups, Nene, Lawson supporting cast, but far and away the best defensively)

      2)He’ll have the most efficient year of his career next season

      Two other predictions. The Knicks will finish top seven in offensive efficiency and top five in defensive efficiency, winning between 55 and 60 games.

      Where do we make this bet?

      I want the under on finishing in the top 7 in offensive efficiency and the under on winning 60 games.

      I’m totally with you on to 5 defensive efficiency. On Melo’s efficiency, exactly what metrics are we using for this valuation?

    28. ruruland

      Jafa: Where do we make this bet?

      I want the under on finishing in the top 7 in offensive efficiency and the under on winning 60 games.

      I’m totally with you on to 5 defensive efficiency.On Melo’s efficiency, exactly what metrics are we using for this valuation?

      >.175 WS/48

      > .570 TS

    29. cypes

      hey wats up nyk fans i like this site alot its good to know that im not the only nyk junkie/fan been following the team since 1980.im so ready for the seasonto start.i think we have as much talent as anybody.im thinking championship y not?we are waaaaayyyyy overdue

    30. ruruland

      Jafa:

      The good news is that he will be a pass-first PG, especially with all the chuckers we have on this team, and he can run the offense.The bad news is we now have 3 PGs that are shy about attacking the paint.How easy will it be for opponents to defend our PGs?

      This is a claim that keeps getting throw out there that is really hard to understand for me.

      Somehow Felton has a higher career assists per 36 than most pgs in the NBA, and that includes the vast majority of penetrating guards like Parker, Lawson, Collison, Rose, Jennings, etc al.

      He has a higher assists/48 than de facto point guard Lebron James on much less usage, and he is obviously considered one of the game’s best passers.

      Is he an elite passer/penetrator? If not, he’s in the next tier. (he simply doesn’t finish like the game’s great pgs, but he gets inside the paint like them)

      Check out where Felton has ranked among all NBA players in assists per 48 minutes sinceh came into the league…. Note the pace of the team’s he’s played.

      It’s not difficult to argue Felton is one of the top 10 assist men in the NBA when pace is taken into consideration — and it’s not as if he’s playing with Rip Hamilton and Ray Allen.

      Felton gets his assists in transition, pnr and penetration and kick.

      Felton’s league rank in assists/48
      2011:12th Pace:15th
      2010:8th (Kidd was 6th) Pace:3rd
      2009:23rd (Kidd was 5th) Pace:26th
      2008:20th (Kidd was 6th) Pace: 27
      2007:9th (Kidd was 4th) Pace: 23rd
      2006:13th Pace:15th
      2005:10th Pace:3rd

    31. ruruland

      It also should be noted that Felton’s assists per 36 was higher than Lin’s in MDA’s offense: 8.7 to 8.3

      Is Lin a good penetrator?

    32. AvonBarksdale

      I agree with post #20. I’d also like to steer this thread back towards the STAT article somehow and his ability to play extremely effective minutes on the court without melo and chandler somehow without losing his “star” status. Woodson seemed to use a lot of great substitutions and keep throwing a wide array of lineups for his brief run prior to the playoffs but once the real deal games started up against the heat it was entirely too much JR Smith, no accountability on hustle plays, no attempt to run any plays whatsoever and i have a feeling no matter what happens in the regular season by the time the playoffs come around whether through injury or straight decision he will shrink coaching-wise. Stat was on fire at least one of those games (possibly fire extinguisher game ) and no one really got him the ball even though he was knocking down shots and drawing fouls…that was a coaching issue, woody didn’t really try to do much, i don’t like the idea that due to chandlers flu and shumps injury, lins injury, jefferies limitations, baron davis injury he just let the team kinda give up…whatever fuck lin he’s not on the team go speculate about his season on the rockets blog, which i’ll also be reading but they’ll be plenty of time to talk about lin when kidd/melo/stat get injured or something.

    33. SeeWhyDee77

      2 bad we can’t bring Jorts back this season…sucks. I think he could learn tons from Kurt Thomas, who pretty much is the same type of player. Big, tough, gritty, not very athletic, nice J, uses position defense very well, great at the pick & pop..o well..no use cryin over spilled milk I suppose- but is it ok to miss it?

    34. knicknyk

      SeeWhyDee77:
      2 bad we can’t bring Jorts back this season…sucks. I think he could learn tons from Kurt Thomas, who pretty much is the same type of player. Big, tough, gritty, not very athletic, nice J, uses position defense very well, great at the pick & pop..o well..no use cryin over spilled milk I suppose- but is it ok to miss it?

      Yeah for real. I hope he finds a spot and sticks. Someone brought up the fact that he would be a good fit in Miami.

    35. ruruland

      Jorts is a nice story, but his jumper will have to improve before he can be relied upon for meaningful minutes.

    36. Brian Cronin

      >.175 WS/48

      > .570 TS

      The great thing is that both options are very much in play for Melo this season. I mean, he was well over those levels during the hot streak at the end, so I think there is a very good chance he beats both those levels this season. Which would be great to see.

    37. Brian Cronin

      I really think that they should change the waived player rule to something like an age requirement. Something like “if you’re under 30 years old, you can be picked up again by the team that traded you after you’re waived.” Or “if your contract is non-guaranteed, you can be picked up by the team that traded you.”

      The reason the current rule is in place is for stuff like Ilgauskus and Antonio McDyess getting traded, clearing waivers because of their big salaries and old age and then re-signing with the teams that traded them. The rule was not designed to essentially fuck over guys like Jorts and Jerome Jordan and yet that’s exactly what it does. It is a really dumb rule.

    38. flossy

      SeeWhyDee77: who pretty much is the same type of player.

      Maybe 40 year-old Kurt Thomas is equivalent to 23 year old Josh Harrellson, but KT led the NCAA in scoring. They are not really comparable, talent-wise.

    39. ruruland

      Brian Cronin: The great thing is that both options are very much in play for Melo this season. I mean, he was well over those levels during the hot streak at the end, so I think there is a very good chance he beats both those levels this season. Which would be great to see.

      Yep

      Key factors

      1) First time Melo has played with drive and kick pg since Iverson/Carter in 2008. Melo had .568 TS that year, and .585 TS in final 62 games (Iverson adjustment) Drive and kick is one of the primary ways Melo scores off the ball, where he like virtually all players , is more efficient

      2)Melo had very low 3pa when he shot .568 in 2008…. His 3pt shot is better and a much bigger part of his arsenal.

      3) Melo will be playing with the best combination of passing pgs that he’s ever played with….Kidd/Felton are superior to Miller/Boykins, Iverson/Carter, Lawson/Billups by all statistical measures.

      Passing allows Melo to cut, run the wing in transition, dive as roller, spot up shoot– it won’t take a huge distribution change with these shot types to see Melo’s efficiency spike up.

      And of course there’s the fact that he’s had probably the best offseason of his career and is just a touch motivated for next season, beyond being at a prime age and in free from any offseason surgeries are lockouts….Melo was off the charts good going into 2009, and 2006 when he was in the kind of shape hes in now.

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