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Wednesday, September 3, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Apr 12 2012)

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Progress for Amare? (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 01:42:24 EDT)
    There’s no clearcut return date for Amare Stoudemire.
    But he appears to be making progress.
    Before Wednesday’s game in Milwaukee, Stoudemire ran a full-court drill for the first time in his pre-game rehab sessions. Stoudemire ran up and down the floor with assistant coach Kenny Atkinson, converting on dunks and layups.
    He also shot from the perimeter and worked in the post against Atkinson.
    The next likely step is for Stoudemire to take contact.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Smith's clutch 3 saves Knicks (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 00:57:55 EDT)
    J.R. Smith called his 3-pointer late in the fourth quarter against the Milwaukee Bucks a “regular shot.”
    Some would call that the understatement of the season.
    Smith’s 3 with 1:07 to play gave the New York Knicks the lead for good in a game they flat-out had to have on Wednesday night.
    The 111-107 victory over Milwaukee gave the Knicks (30-28) a two-game lead for the eighth and final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference. A loss would have put New York in ninth place and out of the playoff picture because the Knicks would’ve been on the wrong end of a head-to-head tie-breaker with the Bucks (28-30).

  • [New York Newsday] Knicks get huge win against Bucks (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 00:23:05 EDT)
    The Knicks improved their chances of making the playoffs last night, playing inspired basketball in what was easily their most important game this season.

  • [New York Newsday] Mike Woodson trusts J.R. Smith and it pays off (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 00:32:00 EDT)
    J.R. Smith had one of those games where you kept waiting for interim coach Mike Woodson to pull him. Smith's shot wasn't falling and he made some costly mistakes on defense, including twice fouling Mike Dunleavy, Jr. as he was taking a three-pointer. But Smith rewarded Woodson for his faith.

  • [New York Times] Knicks 111, Bucks 107: Knicks Beat Bucks to Stay Ahead in Playoff Race (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:17:16 GMT)
    In a messy shootout that finally ended when J.R. Smith hit a 3-pointer to take the lead for good, the Knicks fended off a challenge for the eighth position in the Eastern Conference.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Bynum’s 30 Rebounds Help Lakers Beat Spurs (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:20:06 GMT)
    Andrew Bynum had the most rebounds in the N.B.A. this season as Los Angeles won without the injured Kobe Bryant.

  • [New York Times] Paul Silences Thunder, Bynum Leads Kobe-Less Lakers (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:57:43 GMT)
    Chris Paul scored 24 of his game-high 31 points in a dominant second half display to carry the Los Angeles Clippers to a last-ditch 100-98 road victory over the West-leading Oklahoma City Thunder on Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] Crawford, Matthews Help Blazers Beat Warriors (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:24:00 GMT)
    Jamal Crawford scored a season-high 34 points, Wesley Matthews had two baskets in the final minute and the Portland Trail Blazers beat the Golden State Warriors 118-110 Wednesday night despite missing All-Star LaMarcus Aldridge.

  • [New York Times] Nuggets Hold Off Wolves for 113-107 Win (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:04:38 GMT)
    George Karl was in a foul mood after his team squandered a 24-point lead and nearly the game against a Minnesota Timberwolves squad playing much of the contest without its star player.

  • [New York Times] Paul’s Heroics Push Clippers Past Thunder (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 03:23:59 GMT)
    Chris Paul scored 24 of his game-high 31 points in a dominant second half to carry the Los Angeles Clippers to a last-gasp 100-98 road victory over the West-leading Oklahoma City Thunder on Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] Rondo Carries Road-Weary Celtics to Win Over Hawks (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 03:15:00 GMT)
    Paul Pierce overcame a miserable shooting game with a key jumper in overtime and Rajon Rondo finished with a triple-double with 20 assists, 10 points and 10 rebounds to lift the surging Boston Celtics to an 88-86 win over the Atlanta Hawks on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Smith Hits Late 3, Knicks Beat Bucks 111-107 (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 03:03:41 GMT)
    J.R. Smith hit a 3-pointer for the lead with 1:04 left, and the New York Knicks held on to beat the Milwaukee Bucks 111-107 on Wednesday night in a game that could turn out to be critical to both teams’ playoff hopes.

  • [New York Times] Paul’s Layup Lifts Clippers Past Thunder, 100-98 (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 03:57:45 GMT)
    Blake Griffin’s last visit to his hometown resulted in one of the most forgettable games of a young career that’s already been filled with highlights.

  • [New York Times] Gay Scores 32, Grizzlies Top Suns for 4th Straight (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 03:07:18 GMT)
    Rudy Gay scored a season-high 32 points and the Memphis Grizzlies won their fourth straight with a 104-93 victory over the Phoenix Suns on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Lakers Manhandle Spurs Behind Bynum’s 30 Rebounds (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 03:07:25 GMT)
    Andrew Bynum had 16 points and 30 rebounds, the most in an NBA game this season, and the Los Angeles Lakers didn’t need Kobe Bryant to blow out the San Antonio Spurs 98-84 Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Smith Leads Hornets Past Kings 105-96 (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 03:07:16 GMT)
    Jason Smith scored 22 points, hitting 10 of 12 shots, to lead the New Orleans Hornets to a 105-96 victory over the Sacramento Kings on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Hayward Scores 29 in Utah’s Win in Houston (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 03:07:22 GMT)
    Gordon Hayward scored a season-high 29 points and the Utah Jazz helped their fading playoff hopes with a 103-91 win over the Houston Rockets on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Love Suffers Mild Concussion After Blow to Head (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:32:59 GMT)
    An unintentional elbow ended the night early for Kevin Love and sent him to the hospital.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Lakers’ Andrew Bynum Is Front and Center (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 04:12:14 GMT)
    With Kobe Bryant sitting out, Andrew Bynum grabbed an N.B.A. season-high 30 rebounds as Los Angeles surprised the Spurs.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Magic Johnson and Larry Bird Discuss the Play About Them (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 04:36:40 GMT)
    The relationship between Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, which evolved from hatred to friendship, is the subject of the new Broadway play “Magic/Bird,” which opened Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Pacers Outlast Cavs 104-98 in OT (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:15:11 GMT)
    Danny Granger scored 23 points, five in overtime, and George Hill made a dagger 3-pointer in the extra session, lifting the Indiana Pacers to a 104-98 victory over the Cleveland Cavaliers on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Young Scores 17 Points as 76ers Beat Raptors 93-75 (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 01:29:59 GMT)
    Thaddeus Young scored 17 points, Nikola Vucevic had 12 and the Philadelphia 76ers beat the Toronto Raptors 93-75 on Wednesday night, an important victory in their chase of a playoff berth.

  • [New York Daily News] Clutch AnthonyALL has Knicks in playoff drive (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:24:25 GMT)
    The Knicks got what they came here for, eighth place, and then Carmelo Anthony reminded everyone that they still haven’t clinched eighth or anything else, yet. Anthony was absolutely correct.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks edge Bucks, add cushion in No. 8 spot (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 06:42:24 GMT)
    The Knicks didn’t nail down a playoff berth last night but they took one giant step in securing entry into the postseason for the second straight year.

  • [New York Daily News] Add neck injury to Baron woes  (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:17:57 GMT)
    Baron Davis’ health continues to be a major concern. The veteran guard, who injured his neck in Tuesday’s loss to Chicago, played just 19 minutes Wednesday night and had five turnovers.

  • [New York Post] Shumpert steps up with Baron ailing (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:21:42 -0500)
    MILWAUKEE â?? Baron Davis didn’t want to come out.
    The 32-year-old point guard, who is battling knee, neck and hamstring injuries, has continued telling interim coach Mike Woodson that he is going to play through the pain, doing whatever he can to help the Knicks get into the playoffs.
    But…

  • [New York Post] Knicks grab firm control of eighth playoff spot with gritty win (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 04:45:36 -0500)
    MILWAUKEE â?? It looks like the Knicks still will be playing ball in late April, and Carmelo Anthony and J.R. Smith may be the scoring tandem that gives the Knicks a puncher’s chance.
    The Knicks got great shot-making from Anthony and one brilliant moment from Smith, who hit the…

  • [New York Post] Knicks’ Stoudemire out another week (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:42:51 -0500)
    MILWAUKEE — See you in Newark?
    Amar’e Stoudemire is looking good, but not for Sunday against the Miami Dream Team. He has pushed back his return a few days and is eyeing the second night of a back-to-back, next Wednesday in Newark against the Nets, if all goes smoothly…

  • [New York Post] No place like home for Novak (Thu, 12 Apr 2012 04:34:08 -0500)
    MILWAUKEE â?? Steve Novak was glad to be home, even if his home was not quite as happy to have him.
    The Wisconsin native, who starred at Brown Deer High School and later at Marquette, helped bury his favorite boyhood team, scoring 10 points, including seven in the fourth quarter, in…

  • 41 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, Apr 12 2012)

    1. d-mar

      Howard “Buzzkill” Beck can really be a douche sometimes, this is his opening paragraph about the biggest Knicks win of the year:

      “The battle for 8th place was not determined by awe-inspiring defense or smooth playmaking or any of the qualities that typically define playoff teams. This was, after all, a tussle for the Eastern Conference’s last playoff berth, a spot typically reserved for flawed lineups and sacrificial lambs”

    2. Brian Cronin

      I dunno, d-mar, just like 1998, part of the fun with the Knicks right now is that they are underdogs, winning with two of their best players (and their only above average point guard) hurt. So while yeah, you’re right that he likely meant it as a diss and I agree that that is not cool, I don’t think it has to be a diss. This team is impressive because it is winning despite its flaws.

    3. Matt Smith

      I know it will never happen because egos get in the way, but I’m thinking that Amar’e should come off the bench for us. We need a reliable bench scorer (JR =/= reliable), and the stats show that STAT and Melo can’t coexist on offense (Hollinger’s PER Diem a week or so ago on the Knicks showed that). Melo is playing outstanding at the 4 – his opponents can’t guard him, and he seems much more content defending someone who posts up than someone who runs the wing.

      I don’t have stats to back this up, but it also always seemed like Lin (when he’s back) had trouble getting the ball to Amare off of his screen and rolls – he does much better with Chandler. I’m thinking a 2nd string backcourt of Amare and JJ would do us a lot more favors once he’s healthy.

    4. Frank

      One sort of hidden positive over the last few games – Chandler seems to have rediscovered his FT shooting – 15 for his last 16.

      The team was totally gassed last night – a really impressive and heart-stopping win. It’s never easy to play on the road, but to come out with a big W in such a big spot only 20 hours and plane flight after a hard-fought game with the Bulls — this doesn’t feel like any Knick team in the last 10+ years.

      Btw, I think our backup PG should be Shump, or we should put JR in the starting lineup and bring Baron off the bench. That second unit’s offense just looks awful, and could use even a creaky Baron to settle things down.

      Hopefully we get Amare back soon — I’m not sure Melo will be able to stay fresh with all these minutes and taking a pounding against bigger guys every night. Meanwhile – i totally agree with Thomas B – another officiating crew might have fouled out both Mbah a Moute and Delfino by 6 minutes into the 2nd quarter with all the holding/pushing they were doing on Melo when he was trying to establish post position.

    5. Frank

      @3 – a starting lineup of Shump, JR, Fields, Melo, and Chandler with a second unit starring Baron, Novak, Amare, and Jefferies would be really nice. Woodson can dampen the ego hit to STAT by saying it’s just to get him back in shape.

    6. d-mar

      @2 Yeah, I get that, and I know the NY Times isn’t the NY Post, but it just seemed like a real sour way to begin an article about such a huge gut check victory.

      Meanwhile, the Knicks are exactly 4 games back of Orlando, Atlanta and Boston. Chances of moving up are slim, but maybe Orlando or Atlanta free falls and we have a shot. How sweet would it be to move up to 6 and play Danny and the Douches in the 1st round?

    7. ABG

      In the Post today, Berman indicates Amare is looking at the Nets game for his comeback. Of course, in Bermanesque style and in keeping with the Post’s impeccable journalistic standards, no source for the information is provided.

    8. Frank O.

      From Brian:

      What I find ridiculous is that this is not a matter of people coming in here to give Melo shit. This is people going out of there way to give other people shit and then when they respond, it’s like, “Why can’t we just celebrate the win?” If you want to celebrate the win, then do that, don’t be all, “Take that!” to other posters.

      I couldn’t agree more with this statement from last night.
      There is forever an element on this board who instantly take the low road. It’s like you see blood in the water and can’t help with the I told you so meme.
      The level of baiting that goes on is a bit much. Sometimes one needs to just move on. Because at some point, you’re not arguing about Melo, you’re actually saying something entirely different and it’s about yourself more than anything else.

    9. Frank

      Re: how great Melo has been recently:

      Last 10 games:
      28.5 points, 7 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 39% from 3, 80% from the line, TS 58.5, and a TO-rate of only 9, all while being basically double-teamed constantly with no real secondary scorer on the floor, against what has been a very difficult schedule.

    10. Frank

      And meanwhile re: JR — you get the feeling there is this love-fest between him and Woodson. It almost feels like the MDA-JJ relationship. Is there ANY way that relationship can be turned into JR taking the option year on his contract? Because that would be ENORMOUS for our team next year.

    11. Brian Cronin

      I don’t think we’ll know about JR until we see what his market is this offseason. If it is just the MLE, i think there’s a very decent chance he’ll opt in for next year. But if he’s offered more than the MLE, I don’t see how he can turn it down.

    12. JC Knickfan

      Brian Cronin:
      I don’t think we’ll know about JR until we see what his market is this offseason. If it is just the MLE, i think there’s a very decent chance he’ll opt in for next year. But if he’s offered more than the MLE, I don’t see how he can turn it down.

      Brian do know if JR has opt up before negotiating with other teams?

      JR didn’t even make Newsday list.
      http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/2012-nba-free-agent-rankings-1.3444537#1

      He having career low in FG and TS% this year with PER 12.33. He also had attitude issue in past. This definitely should scare some team away.

    13. Doug

      Frank O.: Because at some point, you’re not arguing about Melo, you’re actually saying something entirely different and it’s about yourself more than anything else.

      This definitely goes both ways.

    14. TelegraphedPass

      Matt Smith: I know it will never happen because egos get in the way, but I’m thinking that Amar’e should come off the bench for us. We need a reliable bench scorer (JR =/= reliable), and the stats show that STAT and Melo can’t coexist on offense (Hollinger’s PER Diem a week or so ago on the Knicks showed that). Melo is playing outstanding at the 4 – his opponents can’t guard him, and he seems much more content defending someone who posts up than someone who runs the wing.I don’t have stats to back this up, but it also always seemed like Lin (when he’s back) had trouble getting the ball to Amare off of his screen and rolls – he does much better with Chandler. I’m thinking a 2nd string backcourt of Amare and JJ would do us a lot more favors once he’s healthy.

      I think your analysis is flawed.

      “Stats show that STAT and Melo can’t coexist on offense.”

      That isn’t necessarily true. Stats show that Melo and STAT haven’t complemented each other well on offense. There is no guarantee that it will continue as such forever. You know what helps guys figure out how to play to each others strengths? Court time together.

      Why would New York bring their near $20m forward off the bench for the duration of his contract? You really think that is better for the Knicks in the long run? What effect do you think that would have on STAT’s mental state and performance?

      A big part of Melo playing well at the 4 has to do with him being healthy. It’s not like he’s actually a PF and nobody realized it. He can do this to 3s as well. In fact, he did this in Denver to great success.

      Finally, saying Melo is more comfortable guarding in the post than the perimeter is just not true. He’s holding opposition to 26.5% shooting in isolation and 37.9% guarding the PnR ball handler. He’s been great guarding in most situations, not just the post.

    15. Bruno Almeida

      Frank:
      Re: how great Melo has been recently:

      Last 10 games:
      28.5 points, 7 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 39% from 3, 80% from the line, TS 58.5, and a TO-rate of only 9, all while being basically double-teamed constantly with no real secondary scorer on the floor, against what has been a very difficult schedule.

      yeah, he’s been truly awesome so far, no complains here.

      but somebody else has to step up on the creation and shot making, J.R did it in the last minutes of last game, Novak also, but we’ll need consistent efforts from this guys.

      Baron Davis being alive would help, but I don’t know if we can count on that when things tighten up in the playoffs.

    16. Bruno Almeida

      “Chandler is single-handedly turning the Melo-STAT pairing into some viable semblance of a core by taking care of the point prevention thing along with Iman Shumpert and Landry Fields”

      so, do the “Landry Fields is not even a decent NBA player” guys want to have their say on this subject?

    17. Juany8

      The biggest irony of the year will be if the major struggles of Lin, Douglas, Fields, Davis, JR, and even Jeffries (with injuries, or shooting, or everything) turn out to be a good thing since everyone gets offered small contracts. This board also overrates how much Novak will get paid, the smartest front office in the league let him go for nothing so they could play Bonner at center instead, and Novak has always shot this well from 3 while being bad at everything else. There’s a good chance most of these guys come back, with a full, proper offseason to get into shape and have an actual training camp. Considering Lin, Shump, Fields, and Jorts (as does Davis if this is mostly a health issue, Melo and Amar’e came back pretty strong) all have significant room for improvement, this team is going to have no problem going 9-10 deep next year.

    18. Bruno Almeida

      one thing that was really impressive last night for me was how controlled Shumpert looked on some of his drives… he really seems to be learning on the fly and adjusting.

      he got blocked a few times on bad drives, but on others he simply abused Milwaukee’s defense.

      with experience he’ll be able to do more of the good and less of the bad… my expectations for his future right now are really sky high.

    19. Caleb

      Bruno Almeida: yeah, he’s been truly awesome so far, no complains here.

      but somebody else has to step up on the creation and shot making, J.R did it in the last minutes of last game, Novak also, but we’ll need consistent efforts from this guys.

      Baron Davis being alive would help, but I don’t know if we can count on that when things tighten up in the playoffs.

      This is true, biggest challenge right now is having no second scorer. J.R. has had years when he was perfect for this microwave role, but it’s been a rough year. And our shooting, save Novak, has been AWOL.

      One thing that hasn’t gotten much comment is how hugely Shump has improved at running the point – it’s been a lifesaver. The first few games of the year, he was constantly running it into traffic, jacking up bad shots, looked like a rookie in his first 5 games. Now it’s night and day. Not that you want him as a starting PG, but to take over when your starter sits? Fine. Without that, we’d be toast, since Baron only looks functional (being generous here) for maybe 20 minutes a game.

      Return-o-Lin will be huge.

    20. Juany8

      Also, it’s Chandler and Stoudemire that have the real problem coexisting, since both can’t be getting all the paint points at the same time and Amar’e is the only one of the two that can space the floor in any form. This isn’t as big a problem as people are making it out to be though, it’s perfectly possible to just stagger the rotations so that Amar’e get most of his playing time with Lin while Melo gets most with Chandler, and you always have good options on the floor while not benching anyone. This team is still going to need Amar’e starting over Fields to have a chance of winning, and considering Melo’s mostly been posting up, I don’t think being a PF is what really made him more effective (although he is fully capable of playing defense there, which is why he’s playing so well)

    21. Bruno Almeida

      Juany8:
      Also, it’s Chandler and Stoudemire that have the real problem coexisting, since both can’t be getting all the paint points at the same time and Amar’e is the only one of the two that can space the floor in any form. This isn’t as big a problem as people are making it out to be though, it’s perfectly possible to just stagger the rotations so that Amar’e get most of his playing time with Lin while Melo gets most with Chandler, and you always have good options on the floor while not benching anyone. This team is still going to need Amar’e starting over Fields to have a chance of winning, and considering Melo’s mostly been posting up, I don’t think being a PF is what really made him more effective (although he is fully capable of playing defense there, which is why he’s playing so well)

      yeah, the mismatches created by Melo playing PF help, but they’re not the reason why he’s been so good.

      one thing though is that Shumpert definitely earned his starting spot, Landry needs to become the backup 3 for now, so when Amare comes back we can limit his minutes to keep him fresh with Landry replacing him and moving Carmelo to the 4.

    22. ABG

      I think the “Melo has to play power forward to create mismatches” theme may be a little overstated. Necessity being the mother of invention, he was forced into the role and happened to thrive there. When Amare comes back, I’d bank the results playing Melo there has gotten–and how its allowed him to get back in rhythm–and return him to small forward. Where, by the way, he hasn’t had any trouble scoring throughout his career.

      I like that going small has become a viable option for the Knicks, but lets not make it out to be the only way they should play. Particularly when we are also bemoaning the team’s inability to grab a rebound against Chicago.

    23. New Guy

      Did JR Smith really reward Woodson’s faith in him, as is the consensus today in the media?

      I suspect if someone measured the cost of his faith (i.e. the boneheaded plays in the 2nd & 3rd that contributed so highly to turning a 14 point lead into a 10 point deficit) vs the benefit of its payoff (his excellent play down the stretch, where his ability to create for himself with the shot clock winding down was invaluable), he’d come out negative. At the very least, his 5 huge points down the stretch didn’t overcome the 6 points he gifted Milwaukee with those indefensible fouls on Dunleavy 3′s.

      Guy is more maddening than Starks. We’re destined to keep him around.

    24. TheXman

      JR was definitely atrocious for a majority of the game. His drives that went nowhere, resulting in getting blocked or losing the ball were god awful. Those phantom fouls on Dunleavy was props to Dunleavy’s ability to flop. I mean fucking, Smith just touched him. Anyways, we did get lucky to pull this out. Monta was scoring at will, Shump looked a tad slower (reasonable as this was a back to back for him).

    25. jon abbey

      Bruno Almeida:
      “Chandler is single-handedly turning the Melo-STAT pairing into some viable semblance of a core by taking care of the point prevention thing along with Iman Shumpert and Landry Fields”

      so, do the “Landry Fields is not even a decent NBA player” guys want to have their say on this subject?

      who wrote that? Melo and JR Smith have a lot more to do with the strong defense than Fields has (some games he helps some, many games he is a major detriment).

    26. ruruland

      Juany8:
      The biggest irony of the year will be if the major struggles of Lin, Douglas, Fields, Davis, JR, and even Jeffries (with injuries, or shooting, or everything) turn out to be a good thing since everyone gets offered small contracts. This board also overrates how much Novak will get paid, the smartest front office in the league let him go for nothing so they could play Bonner at center instead, and Novak has always shot this well from 3 while being bad at everything else. There’s a good chance most of these guys come back, with a full, proper offseason to get into shape and have an actual training camp. Considering Lin, Shump, Fields, and Jorts (as does Davis if this is mostly a health issue, Melo and Amar’e came back pretty strong) all have significant room for improvement, this team is going to have no problem going 9-10 deep next year.

      Matt Bonner got a 4 year 16 million deal from the Spurs in ’10, mind you, and he’s a significantly better player than Novak.

    27. TelegraphedPass

      ruruland: Matt Bonner got a 4 year 16 million deal from the Spurs in ’10, mind you, and he’s a significantly better player than Novak.

      True, but the new CBA squeezes teams and discourages those kind of contracts.

    28. ruruland

      New Guy:
      Did JR Smith really reward Woodson’s faith in him, as is the consensus today in the media?

      I suspect if someone measured the cost of his faith (i.e. the boneheaded plays in the 2nd & 3rd that contributed so highly to turning a 14 point lead into a 10 point deficit) vs the benefit of its payoff (his excellent play down the stretch, where his ability to create for himself with the shot clock winding down was invaluable), he’d come out negative.At the very least, his 5 huge points down the stretch didn’t overcome the 6 points he gifted Milwaukee with those indefensible fouls on Dunleavy 3?s.

      Guy is more maddening than Starks.We’re destined to keep him around.

      Those fouls were bullshit. They were embellished contact plays in what was a ’70s NFL game.

      The way Woodson is handling JR will pay off, and it could pay off huge. This is exactly what JR needed. I’d really be shocked if he left, and I personally think Woodson is handling him this way in part to have him opt in next year.

      The guy has been atrocious all year. His drive game has disappeared. His playmaking has vanished. He can’t make jumpers. Butlike Melo, it’s in there somewhere.

    29. ruruland

      TheXman:
      JR was definitely atrocious for a majority of the game.His drives that went nowhere, resulting in getting blocked or losing the ball were god awful.Those phantom fouls on Dunleavy was props to Dunleavy’s ability to flop.I mean fucking, Smith just touched him.Anyways, we did get lucky to pull this out.Monta was scoring at will, Shump looked a tad slower (reasonable as this was a back to back for him).

      Agreed.

      I don’t think people understand how great a win that was. These guys had no legs — no one could really move. Melo, Shump and Chandler really had nothing. Pure guts that win.

      Also, you beat a team on a night where Ellis and Jennings have their A+ combined shooting game — and it’s not like others guys around them were cold. The Knicks were able to force some of the guys they wanted to take shots in the 4th. That’s how they won.

    30. jon abbey

      ruruland: Agreed.

      I don’t think people understand how great a win that was. These guys had no legs — no one could really move. Melo, Shump and Chandler really had nothing. Pure guts that win.

      Also, you beat a team on a night where Ellis and Jennings have their A+ combined shooting game — and it’s not like others guys around them were cold. The Knicks were able to force some of the guys they wanted to take shots in the 4th. That’s how they won.

      yep, exactly, and Smith finally hit a few shots and Melo kept being Melo on the other end.

      also I think that might have been Shumpert’s most effective game of the year in terms of driving to the basket. I don’t remember him getting there that often and being able to finish before, that one to end the third was a thing of beauty but there were others too.

    31. New Guy

      ruruland: Those fouls were bullshit. They were embellished contact plays in what was a ’70s NFL game.

      The way Woodson is handling JR will pay off, and it could pay off huge. This is exactly what JR needed. I’d really be shocked if he left, and I personally think Woodson is handling him this way in part to have him opt in next year.

      The guy has been atrocious all year. His drive game has disappeared. His playmaking has vanished.He can’t make jumpers. Butlike Melo, it’s in there somewhere.

      I think you’re right. But currently we have to endure a lot of shenanigans before the brilliance appears. We Knick fans have been burned by the promise of volatile players before, so I’m hesitant to trust him. I do agree that Woodson is handling him perfectly, though. But I’m not sure what’s best for JR is best for the Knicks yet.

      Re: the option, do you think he’s wise enough to know how much he needs what Woodson is doing for him? I kind of see him has willing to walk away from what he needs in the long run for a greater short term payoff.

    32. ruruland

      New Guy: I think you’re right.But currently we have to endure a lot of shenanigans before the brilliance appears.We Knick fans have been burned by the promise of volatile players before, so I’m hesitant to trust him.I do agree that Woodson is handling him perfectly, though.But I’m not sure what’s best for JR is best for the Knicks yet.

      Re: the option, do you think he’s wise enough to know how much he needs what Woodson is doing for him?I kind of see him has willing to walk away from what he needs in the long run for a greater short term payoff.

      No one really knows how or what JR thinks. But he’s definitely not conventional and I don’t believe money will be the only determining factor. Playing for Karl and Scott was hell most of the time.

      It wasn’t just dictatorial, he was scapegoated and run under the bus time and again.

      IMO it led to emotional problems and poor floor habits. To have a coach trust and praise him could be one of the biggest deals of his career, and I know for a fact it’s not lost on him.

      People confuse his uh, eccentric nature, for stupidity. he’s not stupid. He’s just really damaged. Woodson could, I don’t to say heal JR, but allow him to really repair himself mentally and emotionally.

    33. New Guy

      And I think that’s great for JR. I just don’t know if I want to endure many more 2nd quarters like last night’s and Sunday’s to move along his healing process. Especially when it’s at least possible, if not probable, that another team gets to experience the payoff.

    34. ruruland

      New Guy:
      And I think that’s great for JR.I just don’t know if I want to endure many more 2nd quarters like last night’s and Sunday’s to move along his healing process.Especially when it’s at least possible, if not probable, that another team gets to experience the payoff.

      I don’t think every coach will treat JR like Woody’s treated him. I’m not so sure he’ll find a team — both structured and winning– where his good habits and “team-ness” will get rewarded like they do here.

      The market I see for him are the bad teams willing to offer a starting role.

      But right now,actually, the Knicks don’t have any other options but to ride Smith. Our point guards can’t get below the three point line or create their own shot. And Fields.

    35. New Guy

      Well if we lose in the first round, it wouldn’t surprise me if Dolan lets Woodson walk, another team rightfully hires him based on the solid work he’s done here, and that team signs JR.

    36. ruruland

      New Guy:
      Well if we lose in the first round, it wouldn’t surprise me if Dolan lets Woodson walk, another team rightfully hires him based on the solid work he’s done here, and that team signs JR.

      Haha. Creatively torturous scenario — some of you longtime Knicks fans are good at this.

    37. maxwell_3g

      Hey guys. I think that we need to keep starting Baron and getting early minutes from him. reason being, as woodson has correctly decided IMO, it shump and JR in crunch time at the end of games. its amazing how woodson has been forced to give shump the keys at the end of big games and it hasnt been a comlete disaster. i love shump and dont think he will ever be a true point guard, but he may develop to be a dynamic shooting guard on both ends of the court who can also play point guard for stretches during games. that will only give us more flexibility with lin next year (im assuming that baron and bibby will not be back and we cant count on chucky douglas at this point).

    38. maxwell_3g

      ruruland: Haha. Creatively torturous scenario — some of you longtime Knicks fans are good at this.

      never put anything past dolan’s ineptitude. he single handedly makes it hard to root for this franchise, because when we finally win it all, he will undoubtedly get some kind of credit

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