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Friday, October 31, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Sep 30 2012)

  • [New York Post] Creaky Knicks look for one last run (Sun, 30 Sep 2012 04:09:28 -0500)
    The sign above the entrance to the Hospital for Special Surgery on York Avenue and 70th Street reads: “Where Amazing Things are Happening.”
    If the Knicks, who do all their medical business there, can stay away from the joint this season, the hospital’s motto might apply to James Dolan…

  • [New York Post] Knicks, Nets in City lights (Sun, 30 Sep 2012 03:31:43 -0500)
    Yes, yes: For the next few days (at the least) and for the next few weeks (if we’re lucky), we are about to remind everyone what a terrific baseball town we are, just how perfect a pairing Yankee Stadium is with autumn. We got a little taste of that…

  • [New York Times] Sun 75, Liberty 62: Liberty Eliminated From W.N.B.A. Playoffs (Sun, 30 Sep 2012 06:00:20 GMT)
    Tina Charles scored 25 points, leading the Connecticut Sun to the Eastern Conference finals after winning their first-round playoff series, 2-0.

  • [New York Times] Sparks Advance in W.N.B.A. Playoffs (Sun, 30 Sep 2012 05:09:58 GMT)
    Candace Parker scored 32 points and the Los Angeles Sparks advanced to the W.N.B.A.’s Western Conference finals with a 101-94 victory over the host San Antonio Silver Stars.

  • 62 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Sep 30 2012)

    1. SeeWhyDee77

      So..Sheed too huh? Seems like were turnin into the GeriatKnicks lol. Honestly, I am encouraged by the skills our senior members bring, even if we’re a few years too late. My only real issue with bringin Sheed aboard is Novak is officially pigeonholed at the 3. We all know he’s MUCH better as a stretch 4. My preference, once Shump is healthy, is to play Brewer behind Melo mainly with Novak behind Stat. But as long as Chandler and Stat stay healthy..we can’t go wrong with a Chandler-Camby-Stat-Sheed rotation either. Maybe we should look at movin JR for someone like Fredette to be a combo guard off the bench. There’s not enough minutes now to share on the bench with Camby, Sheed, Novak, Brewer (once Shump is back), JR and Kidd. I’d move JR and Prigs for Jimmer if possible and roll with it. Unfortunately…Brewer is hurt so we need JR rite now. I’m not bashing him..I like what JR brings..but with Rose, Wade, Lebron, D Will, Rondo, Joe Johnson, Granger, Jason Terry and Paul Pierce in the East on teams who are problee gonna be in the playoffs..there’s more a need for Brewer- especially if we can get a shooter like Jimmer in return. I don’t kno..lol..Woody’s got alot 2 juggle. I am a little worried because I remember how Portland and LA failed years ago with this much depth. I mean..we can easily go 2 deep at every spot..I just hope this group gets along and develops great chemistry- which is something that Portland team and Laker team lacked. Can’t wait to see what comes out..

    2. ruruland

      66 players have played at 38 years of age .

      Here is the list. It’s mostly big men.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=total&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=38&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

    3. ruruland

      WS/48 of players 38

      Parish:.155 (career .154) 2285 minutes
      Willis: .81 ws/48 (career .102)
      Mutumbo .186 (career .153) 1220 minutes
      Jabbar: .197 (career .228) 2700 minutes
      Mahorn — 218 minutes sample too small.
      Malone: .155 (career .205) 3040
      Dream .155 (.178)
      Kurt Thomas: .131 (career .113)

      ** Most similar to Wallace***

      Perkins: .103 (career .138)

      Could go on here. How about this. List the 12th men likely to be better than Wallace next year.

    4. massive

      9/66 = roughly 14%. All that says to me is that there is a slim chance that Rasheed Wallace will be productive. The list also doesn’t account for players that came out of retirement to play, and how they well they performed after doing so.

      The search doesn’t confirm anything other than what I (and a lot of others) expected: Rasheed Wallace will most likely contribute very little, with there being a slim chance of him being a key contributor.

    5. Juany8

      massive:
      9/66 = roughly 14%. All that says to me is that there is a slim chance that Rasheed Wallace will be productive. The list also doesn’t account for players that came out of retirement to play, and how they well they performed after doing so.

      The search doesn’t confirm anything other than what I (and a lot of others) expected: Rasheed Wallace will most likely contribute very little, with there being a slim chance of him being a key contributor.

      Only problem is he’s not exactly a high character guy in the locker room lol. This is seriously just a dumb move for the Knicks, if Wallace barely tried on the Celtics why would he try for the Knicks a few years later?

    6. massive

      Juany8: Only problem is he’s not exactly a high character guy in the locker room lol. This is seriously just a dumb move for the Knicks, if Wallace barely tried on the Celtics why would he try for the Knicks a few years later?

      Well, he did decide to come out of retirement to play for the Knicks, and only the Knicks. Add into the equation that the Celtics, as a team, are known for sleeping through the regular season, giving Sheed an excuse to not care about playing. Woodson won’t allow his players to “save themselves,” and Sheed wants to be here. I think he’ll have some work ethic this time.

    7. massive

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zo7HU6PobUU

      I know it’s not realistic for Carmelo Anthony to play at this level all of the time, but this is the way he needs to play. He needs to take open jumpers, attack the basket hard, and score in the occasional isolation. If he can do this, he’s already a better passer than Kevin Durant, and I’d say their about even on defense.

      It’s a dream of mine for Carmelo Anthony to be a better basketball player than Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is a better athlete and 3 point shooter, but Melo is a more versatile scorer and a better passer. Carmelo has the ability to be a 25 ppg guy 580 TS% guy with 7 rebounds, and 4-5 assists a night. He (or Coach Woodson) just needs to realize it, and for guys to cut to the basket.

    8. massive

      Brian Cronin:
      At least the Knicks have tripled the amount of players on the team who have won titles! Maybe they should bring CUrry back and make it quadruple.

      They need to sign T-Mac and Josh Howard so we can have a championship caliber team from 2006.

    9. ruruland

      massive:
      9/66 = roughly 14%. All that says to me is that there is a slim chance that Rasheed Wallace will be productive. The list also doesn’t account for players that came out of retirement to play, and how they well they performed after doing so.

      The search doesn’t confirm anything other than what I (and a lot of others) expected: Rasheed Wallace will most likely contribute very little, with there being a slim chance of him being a key contributor.

      Actually, I just listed 9 guys off the top of the list. Skipped most of it.

    10. knicknyk

      massive:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zo7HU6PobUU

      I know it’s not realistic for Carmelo Anthony to play at this level all of the time, but this is the way he needs to play. He needs to take open jumpers, attack the basket hard, and score in the occasional isolation. If he can do this, he’s already a better passer than Kevin Durant, and I’d say their about even on defense.

      It’s a dream of mine for Carmelo Anthony to be a better basketball player than Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is a better athlete and 3 point shooter, but Melo is a more versatile scorer and a better passer. Carmelo has the ability to be a 25 ppg guy 580 TS% guy with 7 rebounds, and 4-5 assists a night. He (or Coach Woodson) just needs to realize it, and for guys to cut to the basket.

      They aren’t about even on defense Melo is significantly worse.

    11. ruruland

      Juany, say what you will about Jason Kidd’s issues off the floor going back to Cal, but he’s generally regarded as one of the better leaders in the game. Tyson and Kidd were the backbone and emotional core of a team that won with smarts and moxy over more athletic opponents. Kurt Thomas is typically among the guys bloggers list on their generic high-character lists. Melo and Amare are not complete leaders,and neither are suited to be the vocal, unwuestioned alpha, primary leaders, but I think we can both go over the ways they’ve demonstrated leadership the last decade, from their teams to the Olympic squads.

      The point is that the Knicks have strong leadership core. And I know statistically-inclined folks are wont to disregard championship experience, but were now talking about having a team full of guys who’ve played meaningfull minutes deep in the post-season.

      Wallace has emotional issues. They will flare up regardless of who his teammates are. But low character teammate? I thinkly that’s a highly misinformed opinion. There’s a reason teammates have always stuck up for Rasheed. Go back and read the stories about how Wallace fit in Detroit, one of the closest knit teams of all time.

    12. ruruland

      knicknyk: They aren’t about even on defense Melo is significantly worse.

      Durant is a good help defender, definitely better then Melo there. On the ball? Well, most of you haven’t seen all the games the two have matched up and defended each other. Pretty one sided when they are on the ball matched up.

      Think of Melo as a terrible defender. Let’s see what happens this year.

    13. ruruland

      massive:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zo7HU6PobUU

      I know it’s not realistic for Carmelo Anthony to play at this level all of the time, but this is the way he needs to play. He needs to take open jumpers, attack the basket hard, and score in the occasional isolation. If he can do this, he’s already a better passer than Kevin Durant, and I’d say their about even on defense.

      It’s a dream of mine for Carmelo Anthony to be a better basketball player than Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is a better athlete and 3 point shooter, but Melo is a more versatile scorer and a better passer. Carmelo has the ability to be a 25 ppg guy 580 TS% guy with 7 rebounds, and 4-5 assists a night. He (or Coach Woodson) just needs to realize it, and for guys to cut to the basket.

      Actually, if you want to know how Melo “should” and will play this year, watch his clips from ’05 and ’06. Less iso, Kidd and Felton will get him the kinds of looks Miller used to.

      I’ve posted a bunch of them here. Check out the 40pt game his rookie year against Seattle. 45 against Iverson in 05. 40+ against Miami and Charlotte. All plus a few more on YouTube.

    14. SeeWhyDee77

      Juany8: Only problem is he’s not exactly a high character guy in the locker room lol. This is seriously just a dumb move for the Knicks, if Wallace barely tried on the Celtics why would he try for the Knicks a few years later?

      What? I’ve never heard anything about him bein bad for the locker room. By all accounts he was a rallying voice on every team..except Boston. They already had KG for that. But I tend to agree with u on it bein a dumb move even though I am encouraged by the skills he and the other “near 40’s” bring to the roster. He’s 38 and hasn’t played since 2010. Our starters better stay healthy and be prepared for 35-38 mpg.

    15. Juany8

      SeeWhyDee77: What? I’ve never heard anything about him bein bad for the locker room. By all accounts he was a rallying voice on every team..except Boston. They already had KG for that. But I tend to agree with u on it bein a dumb move even though I am encouraged by the skills he and the other “near 40?s” bring to the roster. He’s 38 and hasn’t played since 2010. Our starters better stay healthy and be prepared for 35-38 mpg.

      I mean he’s killed coaches before and set the record for technical fouls. Maybe his teammates love him, but teammates love Stephen Jackson too, doesn’t mean coaches and front offices haven’t had issues with them. Look, I love Sheed, if the Knicks were getting the same Sheed from 08-09 or so, I would love this pickup. However he’s been retired for 2 years and looked washed up before he left. I just don’t see any upside to this move whatsoever. I see plenty of downside with Sheed wanting more playing time and picking up technical fouls left and right, while never really bothering to step inside the 3 point line on offense. I’m not calling him a cancer, but he is a distraction and who needs that from their 12th man?

    16. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ruruland: Actually, if you want to know how Melo “should” and will play this year, watch his clips from ’05 and ’06. Less iso, Kidd and Felton will get him the kinds of looks Miller used to.

      I’ve posted a bunch of them here. Check out the 40pt game his rookie year against Seattle. 45 against Iverson in 05. 40+ against Miami and Charlotte. All plus a few more on YouTube.

      Jesus, do you really think that a 28-year-old Melo is suddenly going to play like 21-year Melo? COME ON.

    17. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Jesus, do you really think that a 28-year-old Melo is suddenly going to play like 21-year Melo? COME ON.

      All things considered, shouldn’t he play better? I mean it seems weird to assume that Kidd and Felton are suddenly going to be as good as Andre Miller was in 05 and 06, but I thought the issue was getting Melo to play better than when he was younger, not getting him to play at that level again.

      As far as this season, there are some signs that Melo will adjust his distribution of shots somewhat. Since he really is elite at most categories of scoring, the reason his overall efficiency is low stems more from decision making than a lack of talent. Whether he does remains to be seen, I like Melo but I’m not going to just assume he figured it all out this offseason without seeing some evidence. Either way, the bigger issue is still Amar’e. Everyone can at least agree that Melo should be playing serious minutes, star player or not, but I don’t know that I can say last year’s Amar’e was an overall net postive. I’m optimistic that the lockout impacted different players in different ways, and that guys like Felton, Amar’e, and Kidd should play closer to their 2010 level than their 2011 level. Otherwise this team isn’t even getting to the ECF, much less seriously contending anytime soon

    18. Jafa

      ruruland,

      Is there a move that the Knicks have made (since acquiring Melo) that you have not liked? You come out in support of “every” move they make – I haven’t heard one critique from you about the organization’s personnel moves. Which is it – do you really think all these moves are great or do you just have blind faith in the Knicks front office?

      I’m supposed to get excited about an old Rasheed Wallace? I’m about excited about Sheed as I am about an old Jason Kidd, and old Marcus Camby, an old Kurt Thomas, a below average (and might as well be old in my book) Raymond Felton, and old rookie PG.

      I don’t mind one old guy with “championship experience” who can contribute a bit on the court, but most importantly, contribute in the locker room as a leader and a calming voice to help us get through tough series in the playoffs. So based on that, sign me up for Jason Kidd (the same way I liked what Chauncey Billups was doing for us). But this love and over-reliance on old, way-past-their-prime-and-should-probably-be-retired-already guys is quiet disturbing.

    19. Jafa

      Juany8: Only problem is he’s not exactly a high character guy in the locker room lol. This is seriously just a dumb move for the Knicks, if Wallace barely tried on the Celtics why would he try for the Knicks a few years later?

      Exactly. At least Kidd has high character (well when compared to Wallace) and was looking forward to mentoring the guys we already had in addition to contributing in clutch situations.

    20. ruruland

      Juany8: All things considered, shouldn’t he play better? I mean it seems weird to assume that Kidd and Felton are suddenly going to be as good as Andre Miller was in 05 and 06, but I thought the issue was getting Melo to play better than when he was younger, not getting him to play at that level again.

      As far as this season, there are some signs that Melo will adjust his distribution of shots somewhat. Since he really is elite at most categories of scoring, the reason his overall efficiency is low stems more from decision making than a lack of talent. Whether he does remains to be seen, I like Melo but I’m not going to just assume he figured it all out this offseason without seeing some evidence. Either way, the bigger issue is still Amar’e. Everyone can at least agree that Melo should be playing serious minutes, star player or not, but I don’t know that I can say last year’s Amar’e was an overall net postive. I’m optimistic that the lockout impacted different players in different ways, and that guys like Felton, Amar’e, and Kidd should play closer to their 2010 level than their 2011 level. Otherwise this team isn’t even getting to the ECF, much less seriously contending anytime soon

      Both Felton and Kidd were better passers than Andre Miller just two years ago. Five of the last six years Kidd was in the top 5 in assists per 36.

      Maybe all that matters is last year.

      When Felton has played on faster offenses he’s consistently been top ten in assists per 36 above Andre Miller.

      How should Melo have figured out how to change his shot distribution last year? He dramatically changed it with Lin.

      Maybe folks are just ignoring me, but we’ve shown how dramatically his shots changed with a passing pg.

      Maybe I’ll come back in a few months but this is a waste of time.

    21. ruruland

      Jafa, hated letting Lin go.

      Do you recognize team is playing in two year window, with likely third year rebuild, with Amare contract?

      Name a back-up center that signed on a contract the size of Cambys that is as good or better? You understand Camby led the NBA last year in block and rebound percentage?

      Find me an 11th and 12th man you’d prefer play over Thomas and Wallace for a short stint in a heated playoff game.

      Was Brewer a bad move at the minimum?

      I get the people unhappy with Felton,but there are things he does very well that fit the team.

    22. ruruland

      Jafa:
      ruruland,

      we are not ignoring you – we simply don’t believe what you are saying.

      see ya guys after 10-20 games then.

    23. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      jon abbey:
      yep. you’re very knowledgable, but you have a very definite agenda.

      It’s easy to sound knowledgeable when you don’t have to substantiate any of your claims.

    24. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ruruland:
      You understand Camby led the NBA last year in block and rebound percentage?

      You argued a few months ago that Camby’s blocking made him a worse defender.

    25. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: You argued a few months ago that Camby’s blocking made him a worse defender.

      way to go, Jowles.

      I said he will often vacate good defensive position to try to block a shot. I argued that both his blocked shots and rebound numbers were inflated. I also acknowledged that he’s still, overall, a very good defensive player but not one deserving of DPOY nomination or in the class of Tyson Chandler.

    26. Jafa

      ruruland,

      I’m absolutely shocked! You didn’t like the Lin move? I have to check the transcripts on that one, as I seem to recall you hailing the arrival of Felton to replace him.

      As far as I am concerned, we are NOT on a 2-year window (and if we are we should not be). My primary reason? Our best player (Melo) is 28 years old and in the prime of his career. Our window is basically whatever the duration of his prime playing years are, and I don’t think that number is 2. So, as far as I’m concerned, we are on at least a 5 year window, which should have made keeping Lin a good idea.

      Amare’s contract can be used to reload in 2 years, but we are not going to be rebuilding with a 30 year old in-his-prime Melo on our roster. As far as back-up center at Camby’s salary that is as good or better, I say the key is that it is a “back-up” center, subbing for the current DPOY. We don’t need someone too special, just good enough to give him a breather. I like Camby, but he is OLD.

      11th and 12th men should be saved for young players who have potential (like Lin, Novak, Extra E, etc.). Sure I like Thomas and Wallace toughness and playoff savy, but are you going to take out STAT and Chandler to put them in when a playoff game is close?

      Brewer was a GREAT move! I was one of the first to opine on that move when it broke here. Great defensive player that is YOUNG, low usage and a GREAT price. Only move I loved in its entirety this offseason.

      I’ll wait to hear the “things Felton does well that fit the team”. Are you talking about shooting? You must be talking about dribble penetration? Or defense? Still looking for something he does well…

    27. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Tyson Chandler is so obviously our best player that it hurts my brain to think that people think otherwise. There is absolutely no contest between him and Melo.

    28. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Jafa:
      ruruland,

      11th and 12th men should be saved for young players who have potential (like Lin, Novak, Extra E, etc.).Sure I like Thomas and Wallace toughness and playoff savy, but are you going to take out STAT and Chandler to put them in when a playoff game is close?

      In the playoffs, the top 6 players receive a disproportionately huge number of minutes relative to the regular season. 7-12 are largely meaningless. So yeah, the idea that Wallace is going to be a better move than trying out someone like Scott Machado is laughable. You play the young, upside-laden #12 player in the regular season and hope you hit a home run.

    29. EB

      As far as Rasheed Wallace’s character goes I think Woodson would know, and I assume he had some say in getting him.
      As far as a good move I’m not really sure I could see getting him and other veteran household names as taking media pressure off of Melo and Stat which could arguably help in some ways. The more atten

    30. jon abbey

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Tyson Chandler is so obviously our best player that it hurts my brain to think that people think otherwise. There is absolutely no contest between him and Melo.

      I think you could argue that both ways, and in the playoffs, I’ll take Melo over Chandler (although really you need both and it’s apples and oranges). you seem to still wildly overvalue Chandler’s shooting percentage and ignore how much his deficiencies on offense can hurt a team at times.

      but if I can give either Melo or Chandler a 3/60 deal today and have to lose the other one, I would probably pick Melo. neither one is a real franchise player, though.

    31. EB

      The more scrutiny the veterans get from the media the more freedom Woodson gets to have implementing his offense with Melo and Stat. If the vets say to give it time the media and Melo are more likely to buy into it. Certainly as a player Rasheed probably won’t contribute much but perhaps can play adequate defense on centers and open the floor for Amare on offense.

      Yeah I’d rather have an unproven guy with potential to be a lin, but as far as age goes it doesn’t matter at all (see moneyball) Kidd and Camby are arguably two of the best players at their positions (see WP) and Novak wasn’t exactly young.

    32. Juany8

      jon abbey: I think you could argue that both ways, and in the playoffs, I’ll take Melo over Chandler (although really you need both and it’s apples and oranges). you seem to still wildly overvalue Chandler’s shooting percentage and ignore how much his deficiencies on offense can hurt a team at times.

      but if I can give either Melo or Chandler a 3/60 deal today and have to lose the other one, I would probably pick Melo. neither one is a real franchise player, though.

      +100. You need both a primary scoring option and an elite rim defender to win in the playoffs, and most teams don’t have Lebron James lol. Calling Tyson Chandler a better offensive player than Melo honestly requires dogmatic attention to shooting percentages as the only worthwhile measure of offensive value. He could shoot 90% and I still wouldn’t call him a better offensive player. Simply put, Melo can make things happen with the ball in his hands even if there is defensive pressure on him, Chandler can’t do anything with the ball in his hands unless he’s 2 feet from the rim with some space. He’s a better “garbage” bucket scorer than anyone else in the league, but in a sport where only 1 person can handle the ball, someone who can handle it for extended periods of time has value that is literally not accounted for by any stat. In fact these players are hurt since turnovers are directly correlated to how long the ball is in a player’s hands, so the box score makes it seem like a Jodie Meeks was a superstar at avoiding turnovers lol.

    33. Juany8

      EB:
      The more scrutiny the veterans get from the media the more freedom Woodson gets to have implementing his offense with Melo and Stat. If the vets say to give it time the media and Melo are more likely to buy into it. Certainly as a player Rasheed probably won’t contribute much but perhaps can play adequate defense on centers and open the floor for Amare on offense.

      Yeah I’d rather have an unproven guy with potential to be a lin, but as far as age goes it doesn’t matter at all (see moneyball) Kidd and Camby are arguably two of the best players at their positions (see WP) and Novak wasn’t exactly young.

      By WS they were both average players and are getting older, something even THCJ admits he’s worried about. But anyways my question is, even if we’re going to stick to a box score related linear metric, why is WP better than WS? They both seem silly to me, I just don’t get what the justification is for using one over the other. Berri will rave about the year to year correlation for players, but that just means he values box score stats that happen to correlate from year to year. As far as predictive power goes, both have been worse than Hollinger at predicting win totals anymore, and Hollinger is only half heartedly using PER anymore.

      Regardless of which one is better, shouldn’t the holy grail for any predictive analytic system be to match Vegas? I mean, there is literally zero chance that anything freely available on the internet is going to do a better job than Vegas, so why not create a model that basically tries to copy Vegas? I get that someone like Berri is too arrogant to think that anyone is doing a better job than him, but really the smart thing to do is accept defeat and just emulate them. You’ll do better than the rest of the online stats community lmao!

    34. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Juany8: Berri will rave about the year to year correlation for players, but that just means he values box score stats that happen to correlate from year to year.

      How is this a bad thing?

    35. Juany8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: How is this a bad thing?

      It’s not a bad thing in and of itself, but it doesn’t prove the box score’s value. It’s the old problem of reliability vs. validity. Just because the total number of rebounds for each player stays mostly consistent year to year doesn’t mean that the total number number of rebounds a player gets means anything when it comes to evaluating players. For an analogy, think of a clock that is set half an hour late, but still works perfectly fine. The clock is going to repeat itself admirably each and every day, so you know the clock functions properly. However, looking at the clock doesn’t actually give you what you want, and it in fact reliably gives you wrong information.

      So in conclusion, proving that WP or rebounds or anything correlates year to year isn’t proof that rebounds or WP are actually saying anything value. That’s an entirely separate proof, one that Berri hasn’t bothered discussing much (and no, doing a linear regression does not count as proof lol)

    36. jon abbey

      I am in love with Juany8’s overall perspective on hoops and would like to marry it, please.

    37. Zanzibar

      Tyson reminds me of Chauncey Gardener from the movie Being There. The long-time journeyman was to the Mavs as James Posey was to Miami in their chip years. The following year the Mavs, while playing the toughest schedule in the league, actually improved on defense in terms of Team Drtg and Opp Pts Allowed! Wow, I never realized his replacement Haywood was that good! But wait – didn’t the Knicks really improve at D? Tyson was only one component of that improvement which included:
      (1) The baseline was Amare at center – need I say more?
      (2) Woodson emphasized defense and held players accountable.
      (3) Shump, Jeffries (a lot more minutes), Baron, Landry’s improvement on D, Melo’s effort all helped D.
      (4) Energy elevates D – Linsanity and coaching change clearly affected defensive intensity.
      (5) Knicks played the 5th easiest schedule in the league.

      If we had put Dalembert at $7m at center we still would have seen a dramatic improvement. Tyson’s individual stats were not even that great. He was #19 in blocks/game, #22 in defensive rebounding rate among centers, #18 in total rebounding rate among centers, tied for 9th in Drtg among centers. Don’t get me wrong – Tyson’s a good center (probably around #10 in league) but overrated by fans. If we’re being honest, a main reason Chandler is so revered is that our two high-priced stars leave so much to be desired. But it’s sheer lunacy, for the same amount of money, to pick Tyson over Melo. Or to argue Chandler/Shumpert for Chris Paul would not be a good deal for the Knicks.

    38. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      There’s a whole lot of assumptions going on in that post, Zanzibar. “Energy” and “intensity” are so subjective they’re not even worth mentioning. Arguing that players were “held accountable” is pure conjecture.

    39. Juany8

      lol I appreciate the support Jon, although I will go ahead and point out that I won’t take it personally if anyone (or everyone) else thinks I’m full of shit. This is all just a fun discussion on a blog message board lol, I would at least make my own blog if I really wanted people to take my opinions seriously.

      Zanzibar, you are underrating Chandler as a defensive player. Only Dwight Howard is capable of being an elite pick and roll defender, a great post defender, and a solid shot blocker all in one. The only two players in the league in his stratosphere defensively are Dwight Howard and Omer Asik (and I absolutely stand by this comment) Those guys are literally the perfect defensive players for today’s NBA, guys like Noah and KG will still get abused by strong post players like Bynum, Howard, and the Gasols.

      I do agree that the Knicks would have seen a dramatic improvement even with someone like Dalembert, but that’s because Shump and Melo would still have been dramatic year long improvements over Fields and Gallo, and Amar’e would no longer be the Center with Wilson Chandler at PF lmao. Even then, Tyson Chandler is still an elite player in this league, and I could certainly see a case for preferring him over Melo, although Jon Abbey was right, it’s apples and oranges and you’d need both to contend. The real problem is, and will continue to be, Amar’e’s complete lack of attention for the fundamentals of basketball. If he even consistently boxed out the Knicks would become a top 3-4 rebounding team in the league, and all of the sudden it wouldn’t matter as much if Melo was bricking jumpers. Derrick Rose and the Bulls have done this to perfection the past 2 years, and Rose’s overall efficiency hasn’t been better than Melo’s.

    40. Brian Cronin

      I know he got paid a lot of money so the fear of a backlash is there, but are there really people out there who don’t appreciate how great of a defender Asik is? I think he can learn to be a passable offensive player, but his defensive abilities are really beyond reproach.

    41. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      I know he got paid a lot of money so the fear of a backlash is there, but are there really people out there who don’t appreciate how great of a defender Asik is? I think he can learn to be a passable offensive player, but his defensive abilities are really beyond reproach.

      Well I’m calling him a top 3 defender in the league lol, people who haven’t watched the Bulls much might look at me and say “WTF?” lol. Serge Ibaka somehow finished second in DPOY voting while Asik didn’t even make an All-Defense team, so it’s clear that high block and rebound totals have become the Points Scored for defensive evaluations lol. I personally think Ibaka would be a better defender if he went for less blocks (which might decrease his totals) and played with more control. Miami repeatedly took advantage of him in the playoffs by realizing he would jump at everything, a guy who’s still chasing flashy blocks over forcing missed shots shouldn’t be considered a top 5 defender in the league… and Asik is the best player in the league at staying down on fakes and forcing people to shoot over his extended arms.

    42. flossy

      ruruland:
      Im not explaining my reasoning again. Good luck

      Oh no! If we clap hard and really, really believe in the Knicks, will you come back?!

    43. nicos

      I’d say the difference between Dalembert and Chandler is vast. These days the ability for a big to rotate and recover, esp. in the pnr is as important as defending the rim- if not more so. I’d take Garnett over Ibaka all day, every day on defense. Chandler does both, Dalembert isn’t anywhere close in guarding the pnr. Chandler is also as vocal a defender as there is in the league- one of the few guys who you really can call “the quarterback” of the defense- he was integral in creating a defensive culture on the team in a way I can’t imagine Dalembert ever being.

    44. Brian Cronin

      Well I’m calling him a top 3 defender in the league lol,

      Ha! True. Good point.

      Honestly, defensive tier-wise, once you get past Howard, who is clearly in a class all by himself (I mean, good god, the effect that dude has on defense is astohishing), I think the next tier is fairly large. I feel confident with Chandler. Asik, Ibaka, Garnett, Noah and Duncan (when healthy) all being on that second tier. As far as ranking the guys on that second tier, I think Chandler has the best case for the top of the tier while Asik has as good of a case as anyone for second on that tier.

    45. Juany8

      Brian Cronin: Ha! True. Good point.

      Honestly, defensive tier-wise, once you get past Howard, who is clearly in a class all by himself (I mean, good god, the effect that dude has on defense is astohishing), I think the next tier is fairly large. I feel confident with Chandler. Asik, Ibaka, Garnett, Noah and Duncan (when healthy) all being on that second tier. As far as ranking the guys on that second tier, I think Chandler has the best case for the top of the tier while Asik has as good of a case as any on for second on that tier.

      I’d replace Ibaka or Duncan with Taj Gibson, or at least add him in, but overall I’d agree with your rankings, those guys are clearly a cut above the rest of the league in terms of defense. Howard truly is a monster defensively, he’s such a huge upgrade over Bynum on that end I think it’s going to make the Lakers unstoppable (especially since Miami is screwed against Gasol and Howard down low, and Miami’s vaunted defense is going to look weak against Nash-Howard pick and rolls)

    46. Brian Cronin

      I really like Gibson, I just would first like to see a season where he doesn’t play alongside Asik so much to see if Gibson’s defense stands on its own. He spent a lot of time paired with Asik last season. 82games only has the 5-man unites with minutes over 42 minutes, but in those 20 units, Gibson played 613 minutes, 513 of which came with Asik (although yes, I guess you could make the same argument the other way with regards to Asik playing without Gibson’s support).

    47. nicos

      Gibson has been a good defender since he came into the league- he was excellent in 2010-2011 when Asik didn’t play much so I don’t think he’s been overly dependent on Asik.

    48. EB

      I’d probably take Chandler over Melo but a lot of that has to do with the fact I think it would be easier to get a useful small forward than it is to get a useful center.

      Also, earlier I wasn’t really advocating for WP, but if it is even close to accurate we got a steal with those two and at worse they’re probably average. Its better than basically anyone else available on the market we could have gotten, low risk high reward assuming WP gives us at least some useful information.

    49. Brian Cronin

      Wait where does Bynum fall in on your ranking Brian?

      A tier below those guys. I think that the next tier is actually not that big. Guys that can definitely affect a game from a defensive standpoint, but not game-changers like Garnett. Camby likely falls into this category (he used to be a second tier guy but likely not any more).

    50. Brian Cronin

      LeBron has to be on that second tier

      Oh, I was just ranking big men defensively. Lebron is so amazing that he can at least passably defend the post, but that’s not his game. He’s a dominant perimeter defender, though. I’d say he’s a top tier perimeter defender (I don’t think there is a single player who dominates the perimeter like Howard dominates the paint, so that top tier has a lot of guys on it, like Allen and Iggy and soon Bradley and Shump).

    51. knicknyk

      Brian Cronin: A tier below those guys. I think that the next tier is actually not that big. Guys that can definitely affect a game from a defensive standpoint, but not game-changers like Garnett. Camby likely falls into this category (he used to be a second tier guy but likely not any more).

      Wow so you think Chandler. Asik, Ibaka, Garnett, Noah and Duncan (when healthy) are all better than Andrew Bynum? How come.

    52. SeeWhyDee77

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Tyson Chandler is so obviously our best player that it hurts my brain to think that people think otherwise. There is absolutely no contest between him and Melo.

      Agreed..but maybe not our best in the truest sense..but by far our most indispensible.

    53. Brian Cronin

      Wow so you think Chandler. Asik, Ibaka, Garnett, Noah and Duncan (when healthy) are all better than Andrew Bynum? How come.

      Have you seen Bynum take control of a team defensively the way all of those guys have? I mean, Bynum is fine, like i said, I have him just a tier below those guys, but he doesn’t dominate on defense like those guys do. There’s a reason why everyone is freaking out over the impact of the addition of Howard to the Lakers’ defense. Partially, yes, it is that Howard is one of the most amazing defenders out there, but also a good chunk is that Bynum is not a dominant defender in the middle so adding a dominant defender greatly improves the Lakers’ D.

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