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Saturday, October 25, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Oct 14 2012)

  • [New York Post] Celtics see â??older’ Knicks as Atlantic Division threat (Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:11:19 -0500)
    HARTFORD â?? As the Knicks look to dethrone the defending champion Heat, they also hope to dethrone the five-time defending Atlantic Division champion Celtics. And the Celtics, who met the Knicks last night in a preseason game at the XL Center, aren’t going away like everyone keeps predicting.
    But Boston…

  • [New York Post] Amar’e rests up bad knee (Sun, 14 Oct 2012 00:22:32 -0500)
    HARTFORD â?? Amar’e Stoudemire missed his second straight preseason game last night with a bruised left knee and didn’t even make the bus trip. J.R. Smith, meanwhile, joined the wounded contingent, sitting out the Knicks 98-95 overtime victory over the Celtics with a sprained ankle.The Knicks will…

  • 58 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Oct 14 2012)

    1. er

      the heat are starting bosh and battier at the big man spots

      I do not see how everyone thinks the heat are this unbeatable team.
      The Lakers will destroy them in the post if they meet in the finals. The knicks have a shot at pounding this team as well. also I for one am not so over the top on the rashard lewis and allen moves

    2. ruruland

      Jeremy Lin dazzled in SA this morning: 25 minutes, 1-10, 1 assist, 2 turnovers, 4 pts

      TS: 33.4 (4/19 from field)
      Per 36: 8.47pts, 7.4 assists, 3.7 turnovers

      Ouch

      Lin final 15 games in Knicks uniform: 31.2 mpg, 14.5 pts, 6.5 apg, 3.9 turnovers, .393 fg%

      TS: .519 ORTG: 100

      wow

    3. ruruland

      The above are his preseason numbers: 33.4 TS and the Per 36 of 8.47, 7.4, 3.7

      Time for concern Lin lovers?

    4. H20

      ruruland:
      The above are his preseason numbers: 33.4 TS and the Per 36 of 8.47, 7.4, 3.7

      Time for concern Lin lovers?

      He was also seen on the bench in the 4th quarter with ice on his knee, luckily for the Rockets Machado looks to be a legit Pg with the 11 assts.

    5. massive

      C’mon, it’s only preseason and he’s come out to say that the knee is still an issue. Let’s let him suck in the regular season before we decide he’s no good.

    6. ruruland

      massive:
      C’mon, it’s only preseason and he’s come out to say that the knee is still an issue. Let’s let him suck in the regular season before we decide he’s no good.

      It’s the knee I’d be concerned about. If this turns into a long term deal I wonder if it played a role in the Knicks decision.

      This is five months after he was supposed to be 100 percent.

    7. Brian Cronin

      The above are his preseason numbers: 33.4 TS and the Per 36 of 8.47, 7.4, 3.7

      Time for concern Lin lovers?

      Are you trolling yourself? That’s kind of weird.

    8. jon abbey

      he is never going to be totally healthy for a whole season, it couldn’t be more obvious from watching Linsanity at its peak.

    9. knicknyk

      Well said Brian. Anyway, Ruru it’s pre-season. It is absolute fools gold. Even if he was getting 20 & 10 it would still be fools gold. And Jon if he won’t be healthy for a whole season then that makes him just like pretty much every other NBA player.

    10. BigBlueAL

      Lin had a pretty minor knee surgery over 6 months ago and his knee is still bothering him and apparently bothering him alot. Something is not right about that.

    11. jon abbey

      knicknyk:
      And Jon if he won’t be healthy for a whole season then that makes him just like pretty much every other NBA player.

      no NBA player has ever played a whole season healthy? huh?

    12. knicknyk

      BigBlueAL:
      Lin had a pretty minor knee surgery over 6 months ago and his knee is still bothering him and apparently bothering him alot.Something is not right about that.

      Where did you get this notion that his knee is still bothering him a lot. He has been playing 20+ minutes in the pre-season from what I have heard.

    13. ruruland

      Brian Cronin: Are you trolling yourself? That’s kind of weird.

      I like Lin. I would have re-signed him. I don’t have the same infatuation with him that former Knicks fans have.

    14. ruruland

      knicknyk: Where did you get this notion that his knee is still bothering him a lot. He has been playing 20+ minutes in the pre-season from what I have heard.

      Lin said it himself

    15. BigBlueAL

      I hope Lin gets healthy and plays well. I dont want him to play too well cause I dont want the Knicks to really regret not signing him and look even dumber than they looked during the summer. But you know maybe this one time the Knicks showing financial restraint for once actually will turn out to be a smart move. Its not inconceivable that Lin might not be as good as he looked last season.

    16. BigBlueAL

      knicknyk: Where did you get this notion that his knee is still bothering him a lot. He has been playing 20+ minutes in the pre-season from what I have heard.

      Actual quotes from Lin talking about how his knee is still bothering him and that he doesnt have the same explosion he had prior to the surgery.

    17. ruruland

      sidestep:
      Irving on 10/12:
      26 min, 2-15 FTM/FTA, 0 ast, 2 TO.

      He’s obviously a bust by the same logic.

      No one is saying Lin is a bust.

      However, If you take a look at Lins trendline dating back to the ASBreak it’s quite disturbing.

      There are two basic issues: 1) does he have a chronic knee issue that was not resolved by surgery 2) was his ability to make unconventional shots in the paint at a very high percentage an anomaly.

      We know he’s quick, relatively fast, a good leader with short arms. He’s going to get contact. But I have questions about his ability to consistently finish like he did last year to go along with some blind spots in his floor vision and the left-handed dribble issues.

      If he does not improve his left, or his shot which I was confident he would, he may not be a starter in this league.

      He still may have all-star potential if he’s the same guy physically we saw in February. But there is more and more reason to believe that’s more of a questionable proposition then it was in just a few months ago.

      Moreover, preseason games provide evidence. Not as strong as regular season games mind you, but generally there is something to be learned from the preseason, particularly when opposing teams starters are going against.

      Dismissing preason play as folly is folly.

    18. cgreene

      I have read several pieces citing concern about Lin’s knee. I also think that Ruru’s point about Lin making very difficult shots at a high rate is true and could very much have been an anomaly. He is definitely good at getting into the paint, finishing and getting to the line. I think his shot will improve. He’s a mediocre passer and poor defender. His ceiling is probably to be moderately better than Felton. The Knicks should have signed him AND Felton. But for where this team is right now with a 2 year window I could care less that Lin might be really good. I am actually coming around that (although it wasn’t an either or) the Knicks are better w Felton/Kidd/Prigs for this year.

    19. BigBlueAL

      Thats from Mitch Lawrence’s article in today’s Daily News. The NY media certainly doesnt hold the same affection for Lin that many Knick fans did and still do.

    20. Frank

      I am as big a Jeremy Lin fan as anyone. I watched every single game from tip off to the end through the whole streak, bought my kid a Jeremy Lin jersey, and my Twitter avatar is a picture of him. I’m also Taiwanese American. And so I have every reason and desire to believe in that fairytale. But even I had to face the fact that after that initial 10 game run, there were really a lot of things that were very worrisome about his play. When he played teams that really tried to take him out of the game, he didn’t have a whole lot in reserve to counter that. The turnover problems persisted and his defensive issues grew more pronounced. I still thought they would resign him regardless of the price for the marketing aspect if nothing else, but I’m not at all surprised they didn’t think he was worth the money. Sure, the Lakers and Knicks print money, but it is hugely different for the Lakers to pay huge luxury tax for a certain first ballot HoFer who is old but just also had one of the most remarkable statistical seasons of his career.

      I think at the end of his 10 year career, he will be more like Flip Murray than the guy who scored more points in the first however many games of his career – much as it pains me to say that. I think his ceiling is probably above average PG, but prob not within the top 10 at any point in his career. It will still be an ok deal for Houston since they are paying him roughly above average $ and will make gobs of money off him for a while. And for J-Lin- It’s nothing to be ashamed of- he would still be by far the best Asian guard ever to play this game, at least in our era.

    21. knicknyk

      cgreene:
      RT @AlTrautwig: Rockets coaches: Jeremy Lin needs to work harder http://fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/340832#.UHtZSCracpY.twitter … That didn’t take very long.

      For a second I didn’t believe this was real. Shocked that Trautwig tweeted this. Particularly since it was written by Lawrence of the Daily News which is trash. Hahn RT it as well. Still pretty surprised by the vitriol that I have been seeing, you never see Trautwig or Hahn commenting like this in regards to the BS articles that are written about Amare & Melo. Very odd. Houston coaches have been reporting that he has been a hard worker. ” I love about him is you look forward to coming in every day with him. Some guys will work grudgingly but Jeremy is a willing worker. He’s been tremendous to work with.”–Assistant coach

    22. Frank

      That being said, I would be so happy if this career just takes off and he becomes the top five point Guard in the league. Just because he is not a Knick anymore doesn’t mean I don’t want to see him succeed. I just kinda don’t think it is going to happen.

    23. cgreene

      BigBlueAL:
      Thats from Mitch Lawrence’s article in today’s Daily News.The NY media certainly doesnt hold the same affection for Lin that many Knick fans did and still do.

      Sports Illustrated wrote the story about the coaches being on him

    24. cgreene

      Lawrence, Isola and Berman are certainly the definition of hacks. BUT their vitriol is usually directed at the Knicks and trying to drum up stories that cause problems for the team. So for them to be highlighting something may make the Knicks decision look “good” would be the opposite of their normal garbage reporting. Obv Hahn and Trautwig work for the Evil Empire so they have a different incentive.

    25. knicknyk

      cgreene: Sports Illustrated wrote the story about the coaches being on him

      Do you have a link for this article.

      “@r0ad2ruin: @AlTrautwig The fact that you re-tweeted that story is pretty pathetic. But I guess you know where your bread is buttered.”????

      Somebody called Trautwig out for his tweet. George Karl did the same thing to Melo when he left Denver, looks lik Lin is getting the same treatment.

    26. sidestep

      ruruland:
      There are two basic issues: 1) does he have a chronic knee issue that was not resolved by surgery 2) was his ability to make unconventional shots in the paint at a very high percentage an anomaly.

      We can only speculate on point 1, no one knows how that will pan out, including Lin himself. As for point 2, this looks to me mostly like a recycled version of the ‘too small of a sample size’ argument, but given a different label. The difference is that you’re not talking about games but a smaller set of that, namely the percentage of in-the-paint and and And-1 shots. I happen to think these are aspects of a person’s game that are less variable than the others. But in the end, this is still the sample size argument, which has been rehashed to death, there’s nothing more to say about it even if repackaged as ‘anomaly’ instead of ‘small sample size.’

    27. ruruland

      sidestep: We can only speculate on point 1, no one knows how that will pan out, including Lin himself. As for point 2, this looks to me mostly like a recycled version of the ‘too small of a sample size’ argument, but given a different label. The difference is that you’re not talking about games but a smaller set of that, namely the percentage of in-the-paint and and And-1 shots. I happen to think these are aspects of a person’s game that are less variable than the others. But in the end, this is still the sample size argument, which has been rehashed to death, there’s nothing more to say about it even if repackaged as ‘anomaly’ instead of ‘small sample size.’

      Except I’m specifically referring to his truly unique shot style in paint. Sort of a bank shot floater from a stop. They look extremely difficult and I was often surprised they went in.

    28. Z-man

      @24
      Good post, Frank. I’ve been as down on Lin as anyone but 3 preseason games don’t mean all that much to me. For the record, I don’t think Lin has a prayer of being an all-star PG ever, and anything in the top 5 in the West would surprise me. I think fortune smiled on him like few others, that Linsanity was mainly predicated on surprise and circumstances, and that once the opposition took him seriously he would become Raymond Felton without the D. Ultimately I think he will settle in to a role as a decent change-of-pace backup PG on a good team, a starter on either an otherwise loaded playoff team or a lottery team, IF he can stay healthy…

      As to his knee, meniscus injuries that don’t heal correctly (i.e. pain free) are not to be taken lightly, and could raise the prospect of microfracture surgery if other things don’t work. We’re 6 months out now and that’s probably not a great sign considering that his original prognosis was to be ready to play if we made the 2nd round back in May.

    29. max fisher-cohen

      Lin is going to be an all star just due to China’s vote. Whether he’ll ever deserve it is another question. The knee thing is a bit worrisome, but it’s way to early to make a big deal of it.

      Like I’ve said before, the sample is small enough that he was never a sure bet. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t a good bet given the situation NY was in and the potential he showed. THinking retrospectively is a waste of time because what’s really a small sample is the # of Jeremy Lins we’re looking at. If we looked back at all players with similar track records to Lin in their first 1,200 minutes in the league (as I’m sure someone has done on this board in the past), I think you’d have a pretty good list of players along with some flops.

      But that’s the thing about building in the NBA. Unless you end up with a Tim Duncan — with one of the once every 5 years type players who is a top five player across an entire decade — your only hope is to capture lightning in a bottle, to get the injury prone player and hope he puts together a couple amazing playoff runs, or get the one dimensional player and try to surround him with players who minimize his flaws and maximize his strengths. You’re playing catchup.

      Think about a winner takes all golf game. You’re on the last hole, par five, down 2 strokes. You know if you play it safe you can make par no problem, but you also know that your opponent is just as capable of par, so instead, even though it might only pay off 1 out of 5 times, you go for the birdy. You take out your 1 wood and try to make 350 yard drive across the pond.

    30. Z-man

      Sorry, Max, you lost me. If Lin turns out to be a mediocre player, there is no way anyone can say that it was still a risk worth taking. The Knicks (be it Dolan, GG, Woodson) had a decision to make. For whatever reason, they decided he wasn’t worth the investment. If he continues to play poorly or his knee is a major problem, the only conclusion to reach is that they were right on this one. If Lin plays better than anything they could have gotten for less, then they were wrong.

    31. max fisher-cohen

      Let’s say that Lebron decided after his rookie year, lebron hit his head on a cabinet in his kitchen year that basketball was stupid and he would rather retire with his millions to the Florida Keys and sing Jimmy Buffett songs for the rest of his life.

      Would that make the Cavs stupid to have drafted him?

      Looking at decisions based on how they worked out is a recipe for misery (not to mention failure) because what you’ll end up with is a litany or contradictions. Two decisions founded on the same type of evidence will have contradictory results. One time, you’ll walk up to the hot woman in the bar and tell her a fart joke and she’ll laugh. THe next time, you might walk up to a hot woman in a bar and she’ll slap you. Which decision is the right one? The key is to look at the information you had at the time with both failures and successes. Did both women seem primed for success?

      Did the Knicks have a better chance at winning a championship by choosing Lin over Felton/Kidd? I guess there’s an argument that this core can win a championship, but to me, the only chance the Knicks had at a championship was that Lin’s ten game run wasn’t an outlier and that he might even build on it.

    32. max fisher-cohen

      “Did both women seem primed for success?”

      =

      “did both women seem to have a juvenile sense of humor?”

      That’s what happens when I type and watch TV at the same time.

    33. knicknyk

      ruruland: Yikes.

      Don’t know what you mean’t by Yikes but McHales response was spot on. Lin isn’t a 30 year veteran he is still very much a work in progress. That doesn’t take away from the fact that he is a good player with a lot of potential. I always found it odd that everyone acted like he was a finished product & wouldn’t get better. If he was putting up 20 & 10 in the pre-season would anybody have been saying that he is a superstar, I doubt it the response would have been that it is pre-season.

    34. jon abbey

      max fisher-cohen:
      Did the Knicks have a better chance at winning a championship by choosing Lin over Felton/Kidd?

      absolutely not IMO. the argument for Lin was that in a vacuum he had more of an upside than Felton/Kidd, but not on this team, again IMO.

    35. AvonBarksdale

      pretty sure all the lin lovers haven’t even been posting or were ever real knicks fans for the most part…all this lin talk is lame, obviously he sucks without d’antoni, chandler, novak, the circumstances, his career on the line, new york crowd, and he was in a groove…i’m a huge fan of his no matter what happens cause that linsanity run was the antithesis of what melo/stat/dantoni drama we were enduring at the time…..now your seriously hating on him during preseason to defend your arguments with whom? remember they all left to go be nets fans or something….surprised at some of you guys postings today! i always knew felton was a supremely much better fit with much more durability and potential for chemistry…anyone who doubted that ever hasn’t been following the knicks for more than five minutes last year. the west is gonna eat his ass alive and they’ll have to put his little bruised knee on royce whites bus back to landry fields couch but stop hating he lifted up the whole team last year, not luck just no scouting reports and NO ONE was taking the knicks seriously at that moment. Let’s talk shumperts new early 90’s style instead, anything but this garbage.

    36. ruruland

      No one, not even Z-man, has “hated on” Lin post signing. Just like discussion of Denver’s success was not going away post trade, at least for a year and a half, neither will Lin talk, at least on days without practice or game. I’m not a big fan of it either.

    37. Nick C.

      ruruland:
      No one, not even Z-man, has “hated on” Lin post signing. Just like discussion of Denver’s success was not going away post trade, at least for a year and a half, neither will Lin talk, at least on days without practice or game. I’m not a big fan of it either.

      Then why did you initiate it?

    38. flossy

      Nick C.: Then why did you initiate it?

      Seriously! If you don’t like it, do your part and STFU, quit trolling Knicks blogs with the latest Lin boxscore and “time for concern, Lin lovers?” Jesus.

    39. Z-man

      flossy: Seriously! If you don’t like it, do your part and STFU, quit trolling Knicks blogs with the latest Lin boxscore and “time for concern, Lin lovers?” Jesus.

      You guys are kidding, right? Like the Lin story is not worthy of further commentary? Many prominent people here trashed Knicks ownership/management for not matching Lin’s offer sheet. Those like myself who defended the decision were bashed from pillar to post, not just by Lin fanboys but by regulars. It’s not trolling to bring up this very current event, nor is it premature gloating. It just is what it is. The guy people were dying to throw boatloads of Dolan’s money at is currently playing like shit and his knee is still not right after 6 months. That’s a story worthy of this blog. Deal with it. You can bet that I’ll be revisiting this topic frequently as we go forward. And if I have to eat a lot of crow if Lin turns things around, so be it. THCJ certainly has not tired of bringing up how stupid we were to pass on Faried, and I have absolutely no problem with that; it’s not trolling.

    40. er

      Yup

      Z-man: You guys are kidding, right? Like the Lin story is not worthy of further commentary? Many prominent people here trashed Knicks ownership/management for not matching Lin’s offer sheet. Those like myself who defended the decision were bashed from pillar to post, not just by Lin fanboys but by regulars. It’s not trolling to bring up this very current event, nor is it premature gloating. It just is what it is. The guy people were dying to throw boatloads of Dolan’s money at is currently playing like shit and his knee is still not right after 6 months. That’s a story worthy of this blog. Deal with it. You can bet that I’ll be revisiting this topic frequently as we go forward. And if I have to eat a lot of crow if Lin turns things around, so be it. THCJ certainly has not tired of bringing up how stupid we were to pass on Faried, and I have absolutely no problem with that; it’s not trolling.

    41. Frank

      Gotta agree with Z-man and er here – this is the same board that STILL is debating the wisdom of the Carmelo Anthony trade at times which happened 1.5 years ago. Like it or not, the decision to let Lin go will be dissected up/down/left/right by all the mainstream papers and websites, and every Knicks/Rockets-related blog until he shows us what kind of player he really will be — and if he turns out to be anywhere near the player that had a PER of 25 for a few weeks, then those same outlets (and this board) will kill the Knicks for it for several years.

      If anything, I would be very very concerned about his knee. If he was 85% ~5 weeks after the surgery, why isn’t it 100% now ~5 months later? There was a fair amount of talk around the time of the surgery that he had “by definition” chronic arthritis based on what the surgeon saw in there. He’s still really young so I would imagine that it’ll continue to get better, but if a whole offseason isn’t enough, I’m not sure what will be.

      The other thing I’d be concerned about if I were Houston is his defense. If y’all remember, there were many articles written even during Linsanity that the Knicks’ offense actually wasn’t really that great with Lin running the show – rather, it was the defense that got a whole lot better. Some of that most likely had to do with the level of competition, and a lot of that had to do with no Amare/Melo on the floor. There was lot of Jeffries/Chandler/Shump combos on the floor, with Shump taking on the best backcourt offensive player during important possessions (remember when he completely shut down Calderon after he scored 241209 points against Lin?). And in fact, PG after PG just torched my man Lin. Some of this might be blamed on the fact that his knee was flaring up, but if his knee isn’t completely 100%, it’ll just keep happening.

    42. knicknyk

      ruruland:
      http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=alhnuwnc8ws
      Lin vs SA

      Who creates Lowlights of a player lmao and the fact that your using this as evidence ruru really defeats your arguments. For everyone talking about Lin’s health & dinging him for it, there is no shortage of irony in that when we are paying Amare 20 million. Anyway I wish Lin the best of luck with the Rockets & will try to catch as many of his games as I can. I am over Lin as a Knick.

    43. ruruland

      knicknyk: Who creates Lowlights of a player lmao and the fact that your using this as evidence ruru really defeats your arguments. For everyone talking about Lin’s health & dinging him for it, there is no shortage of irony in that when we are paying Amare 20 million. Anyway I wish Lin the best of luck with the Rockets & will try to catch as many of his games as I can. I am over Lin as a Knick.

      You don’t often get to see video of a guy struggling. This thread is about Lin struggling. I wish no ill will, nor am I trying to prove he will suck the rest of his career. Seems to fit my originsl post. People are showing their true colors and they arent orange and blue.

    44. ruruland

      flossy: Seriously!If you don’t like it, do your part and STFU, quit trolling Knicks blogs with the latest Lin boxscore and “time for concern, Lin lovers?”Jesus.

      Nick C.: Then why did you initiate it?

      I was interested in talking about what it could mean for Lin. I’m less interested in going over what happened in August.

    45. Nick C.

      I find kinda sad that you post about Lin and there are 40-50 posts, but almost every other day up top is an Amare knee article and crickets.

    46. Brian Cronin

      Gotta agree with Z-man and er here – this is the same board that STILL is debating the wisdom of the Carmelo Anthony trade at times which happened 1.5 years ago. Like it or not, the decision to let Lin go will be dissected up/down/left/right by all the mainstream papers and websites, and every Knicks/Rockets-related blog until he shows us what kind of player he really will be — and if he turns out to be anywhere near the player that had a PER of 25 for a few weeks, then those same outlets (and this board) will kill the Knicks for it for several years.

      We can simply avoid that by, you know, not doing that.

      Yes, I know that even if you, me and most every other regular does avoid it, some new poster will stop by to gloat one way or the other, but it doesn’t mean we should.

      For instance, if Lin has a great year in Houston, I assure you that I am not going to say shit about it, because what’s done is done. Gloating is for guys like Frank Isola and Marc Berman.

      I’m all about the present and the future of this Knicks team (well, except for celebrating the past, of course. Just not going over what ifs).

      Of course, if the topic does come up, I can’t say that I won’t respond to it. I’m only human, after all. ;)

    47. flossy

      Z-man: You guys are kidding, right?

      Are *you* kidding? The same guy who brought up Jeremy Lin on this thread in the first place, unprompted, then turns around some 40 comments later and says “he’s not a fan of all the Lin talk.”

      Trolling 101.

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