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Friday, September 19, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Jul 22 2012)

  • [New York Times] 2012 Olympics — Team USA’s International Education, Before the Games (Sun, 22 Jul 2012 05:54:05 GMT)
    Three members of the United States’ 2002 Junior World Championship qualifying team are headed to London for this summer’s Olympics.

  • [New York Times] Krzyzewski Leads Team USA in Practice in Barcelona (Sun, 22 Jul 2012 06:00:26 GMT)
    In 1992, the Dream Team made its run in Barcelona. Now the United States is back with Mike Krzyzewski as coach, this time to train for London.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Kidd Apologizes for Accident (Sun, 22 Jul 2012 02:55:45 GMT)
    The Knicks’ new point guard apologized via Twitter for the July 15 accident that led to his arrest on a charge of driving while intoxicated in the Hamptons.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Landry Fields Gives a Wistful Look Back (Sun, 22 Jul 2012 02:58:54 GMT)
    Landry Fields signed a contract with a new team but says he enjoyed his time in New York. Sound familiar?

  • 87 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Jul 22 2012)

    1. Frank

      I know, it’s horrible. If I were a pro athlete I’m not sure I would have a twitter or FB account, and if I did, I’d probably have someone else curate the comments/mentions for me.

      Again, not to beat a dead horse here, but I’ve been spending a ridiculous amount of time thinking about that whole fateful week before he went to the Rockets. Regardless of the Knicks’ thinking, it feels a bit to me now like either Jeremy thought the Knicks would match anything, and it was a money grab, or that he actually wanted to play for the Rockets. Here’s my thinking:

      1) Many other RFAs (including Hibbert this year) have gone back to their original teams saying “X team offered me this” before signing the offer sheet – that gave the original team not only a heads-up, but also a chance to either make its own best offer before the offer sheet was signed, or set up a sign-and-trade. In Jeremy’s case, he knew the Knicks couldn’t give him as much $ without “matching” the offer sheet, and also knew that it would make no sense to accept a sign and trade because he would be taking less $ AND taking away assets from his new team if he signed with HOU.

      He could’ve gone back to the Knicks and said listen, this is what Houston has offered me. If he wanted to stay, he could’ve done that. Then the Knicks could have said – look we can’t match that, but we can offer you the full EB 4 years 24M with a 4th year player option. But he never gave them the chance – as soon as he signed that offer sheet, the Knicks were in match or release mode. So if you think he wanted to stay with the Knicks, he was counting on the fact they would match anything, and just went for the most $. But if you think he actually wanted to leave, then it makes perfect sense.

      The idea that he signed “the only offer sheet in front of him” is a little misleading. He could’ve gone back to NYK before signing. He would’ve had to take less $ maybe, but he never even made that an option.

    2. nicos

      thailandvc:
      http://www.sheridanhoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Lin-Reaction.jpg

      Wow. Anyone of these assholes one of you guys?

      It’s really incredible how awful the internet can be- makes one realize how fortunate we are to have a place like Knickerblogger where the level of discourse remains high even when things get heated. So thanks Mike, Brian, Jim, Robert, et al… for not making us scroll through endless racist bile that seems to characterize the internet these days.

    3. Z-man

      I’m past Jeremy Lin, he’s a Rocket and I don’t give a shit about them. Totally agree with Frank, he either didn’t care very much about playing here and wanted to max his dollars or played the whole thing stupidly thinking that the Knicks would match anything. Keep in mind that there were reports that he was angry at the Knicks for not pursuing him more vigorously, and that the Knicks had told him they would be pursuing Nash, Kidd and Felton before making him an offer. Seems to me that the situation was mutual…the Knick brass (and coach and players) were not ready to anoint him as a starter. There was definitely a disconnect, and frankly, I think things worked out best for both parties, especially the Knicks, in that both avoided a potential mid-season media circus.

      Moving forward, here’s a good article about Prigioni with some promising video clips. Looks to me like Prigioni can replace most of what Lin does, will be happy being in the proper role (3rd string PG, part-time SG) and will have pressure cooker experience.

      http://sports.yahoo.com/news/quick-look-york-knicks-point-guard-pablo-prigioni-033600486–nba.html

    4. KnickFanInCelticLand

      @2

      Frank,

      And how do you know that he did not do that? Such action would be off the record and refusing to acknowledge such an exchange would put a better spin on the knicks/Dolan position. Evidence seems to point with early communication with Felton (by his own admission). The arguments pro and con Lin have been bantered here ad nauseum.

      Me? I just treat these athlete’s injuries and am not a general manager or own. So, what do I know! IMHO, Lin shows more promise than liability even considering his limited sample metrics and known medical history. The knicks already dug themselves into a hole with too max/over max contracts and minis on athletes 5-7 years into losing speed, quickness, and endurance (VO2 max) . Why not decorate that deep hole with the only point guard they can feasably get in the near future that can potentially improve the team? If you want to win it all rather than be a one and done playoff team, you must take chances.

    5. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Re: Josh Selby

      Find me a player who had a productive career after a rookie season, however short, in which he was -0.100 WS/48.

      WP48? -0.192.

      I don’t care that he played two hundred minutes. He is NOT an NBA player.

    6. bobneptune

      Frank:

      He could’ve gone back to the Knicks and said listen, this is what Houston has offered me.If he wanted to stay, he could’ve done that.Then the Knicks could have said – look we can’t match that, but we can offer you the full EB 4 years 24M with a 4th year player option.But he never gave them the chance – as soon as he signed that offer sheet, the Knicks were in match or release mode.So if you think he wanted to stay with the Knicks, he was counting on the fact they would match anything, and just went for the most $.But if you think he actually wanted to leave, then it makes perfect sense.

      With all due respect, Frank, for the honor of playing for our beloved Knicks, Lin was supposed to pass on 25M for 3 years and take 24M for 4?

      https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQw-5SM_oMW8b6tBYAtsaPQ6EZeF3tRcuZX5kalmcFEdZ21fIwbOA

      So… for one million less and one year more (also save 1.94 million in NY vs Tx state income tax) he was supposed to sign with a team that went nuts to find a replacement for him BEFORE he signed an offer sheet (Nash, Drunk, & Fatty) AND wants to pound the ball to a selfish player (melo) and whose 2 guard is a psychopath who already is jealous of Lin.

      Lin went to Harvard…. he isn’t stupid.

      His only mistake was he should have made CAA his agents. Jimmy would have paid him 100M if that was the case. Or he could have bribed Isiah to put in the good word for him.

    7. formido

      That’s ridiculous. Morey is not an idiot. If Lin was sitting in his office holdimg basically a max offer for his situation, Morey isn’t going to leave the offer on the table after Lin walks out the door. The lengths people are going to rationalize this decision astound me.

      The offer was all Morey. It’s the same deal Houston also offered to Asik.

    8. peanutgallery

      This is my first time commenting. You guys are great so I hope this isn’t annoying.

      I take Lin at his word that he wanted to stay with the Knicks, but it seems to me that his (naive?) agents overestimated Woody’s words and underestimated management’s contingency plans and possibly mishandled Jeremy’s immediate future. Here as in elsewhere, word doesn’t count like the signed bottom line. The Knicks had to prepare that he might (want to) leave, and maybe they even chafed at the first reported offer. Perhaps they had more than one reason for telling him to see what the market offer. Or several. Maybe they bought into the FIsola and SASmith vitriol.

      Anyway, I’m not sure what one should say when presented with more money. He’ll just have to learn the (real life) business aspect as he goes along. We and Lin went through ups and downs this past year, right to the wire, but as I believe he’s a good kid, I wish him much happiness and success. Every team should enjoy the fun we experienced (once in awhile!).

    9. Z-man

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Re: Josh SelbyFind me a player who had a productive career after a rookie season, however short, in which he was -0.100 WS/48.WP48? -0.192.I don’t care that he played two hundred minutes. He is NOT an NBA player.

      In addition to Avery Bradley, this list of players who had a rookie WS/48 less than 0 and played over 100 minutes has some pretty good players on it. Considering that Selby is 21 and only played one partial season with Kansas with pretty good stats, your statement is pretty, well, I want to say idiotic, but then I’d sound too much like you, so I’ll just say poorly researched.

    10. Caleb

      he either didn’t care very much about playing here and wanted to max his dollars ”

      You’ve just described 99+ percent of NBA players… As they should. Their earning life is short, and they can be traded at any point.. Unless you’re 35 and already had 2 max deals, you find and take the biggest odder.

      Re: selby, I could give a guy a pass on 200 minutes, but selby wasn’t much of a college player either (unlike avery bradley, who is a shump-like athlete and was a top-5 guy out of hs)…

    11. Z-man

      Here’s the list:

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1980&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=Y&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=ws_per_48&c1comp=lt&c1val=0&c2stat=mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=100&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

    12. Z-man

      Re: Selby, he shot decently from 3 in college, had very impressive draft measurements (highest vertical, I believe) and is a 21 year old kid. We’re talking about a roster-filler spot, not a rotation guy. I agree, he’s not Avery Bradley, but for a minimum salary flyer at PG under the tutelage of Jason Kidd, I’d be fine with it. I just think it’s way too early to conclude with certainty that he will never be an NBA rotation player.

    13. exel

      For those who still think that Lin went back to the Rockets to get more money, here is more evidence to the contrary:

      “After we came to a rough agreement on that deal (with Lin), Goran (leaving) became certain,” Morey said. “We were all concerned about not having a point guard. It was Mr. (Leslie) Alexander’s idea to get more aggressive.”

      In the next few days, the Rockets reworked the offer to $25.1 million over three years, all guaranteed. Heavily back-loaded, it would force the Knicks to pay $14.9 million in the third season of the contract, the first season of the more punitive luxury tax. For the Rockets, each season will count roughly $8.4 million toward the salary cap and luxury tax.

      “We talked about it internally for a while,” Morey said. “We brought it up to his agents, asking if they would be OK with more money, and shockingly, they were open to it.”

      http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/anatomy-of-a-deal-how-the-rockets-landed-jeremy-lin/

    14. yellowboy90

      exel:
      For those who still think that Lin went back to the Rockets to get more money, here is more evidence to the contrary:

      “We talked about it internally for a while,” Morey said. “WE BROUGHT IT UP TO HIS AGENTS ASKING IF THEY WOULD BE OK WITH MORE MONEY, and shockingly, they were open to it.”

      http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/anatomy-of-a-deal-how-the-rockets-landed-jeremy-lin/

      Doesn’t this point to the idea that Lin was not blind sided by the new deal and could have given the knicks a heads up? Unless you think his agents did not tell him about Houston’s plans. It was not like Lin new offer was on the table as a take it of leave it with Lin in front of Houston’s GM.

      It is what it is and its over now.

    15. Z-man

      Is there anyone who seriously thinks that Lin went back and demanded more money?

      What is clear is that the Knicks weren’t focused on keeping Lin and Lin was not focused on staying. Hence, both sides have nothing to complain about.

    16. SangaD

      thank u and for all the shit we talk JR wanted this uniform just like Stat did and Felton does again.

    17. SangaD

      I saw JR a couple of week ago ballin on Dyckman and he was all smiles ! He likes this New York shit, Trash talkin and everything, and to be honest he was getting cooked from some dude, but it was late as hell and he wasn’t worried about nuthin.. all smiles.

    18. Z-man

      Cousyfan: I am back just to give you guys some reality.If you people would be interested in what really happened,check this out.http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/anatomy-of-a-deal-how-the-rockets-landed-jeremy-lin/This sets the record straight; no more guessing.Cheers

      So what? This is what most here already thought happened. So Houston could have kept proven PGs in Lowry and Dragic for the same or less money, instead, they are rolling the dice on a guy with 25 starts. The Knicks decided that Lin was probably not a starter on a deep playoff team and not worth Steve Nash in his prime money. Good for Houston, good for Lin, and good for the Knicks. Bad for Lin believers in NYC. Bottom line: it’s done, let’s move on already.

    19. ess-dog

      Cousyfan:
      I am back just to give you guys some reality.
      If you people would be interested in what really happened,
      check this out.
      http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/anatomy-of-a-deal-how-the-rockets-landed-jeremy-lin/
      This sets the record straight; no more guessing.
      Cheers

      I thought that was an interesting article. Now that the dust has settled, I see the move from both sides. The Knicks have a window here, and Lin is still learning. They wanted a guy who was ready for the daily grind of the NBA. Lin will be there, but he’s young and has a lot to learn.

      The Rockets get a great piece to rebuild with.

      The problem I have, is that the Knicks let Lin go for nothing. If this was their thinking, they should’ve searched for a deal for a veteran point guard, with a contract that Lin would agree to.

      Of course, the main team in the West that wanted him, we’d just pulled a deal with (Camby) and the only other team was Toronto who had a few pg candidates on their radar. It was a fast moving week, and it actually would’ve been hard to do a Lin deal unless it was right at the beginning of free agency.

      My thinking is, they should’ve assumed the worst in regards to the poison pill contract, especially after the Fields contract.

    20. Caleb

      SangaD:
      thank u and for all the shit we talk JR wanted this uniform just like Stat did and Felton does again.

      JR, Felton and stat all took the biggest money offer, too, just like Lin… That’s just how it works.

      I guess you MIGHT say JR MIGHT have gotten a little more in the short-term but he obviusly thinks he has a bigger deal coming down the road, like next year… That’s part of the knicks calculation letting lin go.

      Stat couldn’t even get a 5-yr offer anywhere else.

    21. Z-man

      Yeah, ess, if Lin was not inclined to accept a max offer from the Knicks, why would they OK a sign and trade? Unless a team offered more than Morey did in such a deal, why would a team want to do a sign and trade? Unless a team was desperate to clear cap space in years one and two, why would they offer Lin more than Houston offered him? Unless Portland had time to see if they could get something better for Felton, why wouldn’t they wait? Unless the Knicks were sure they weren’t gonna get Nash and were gonna get Kidd, why would they say anything other than they would match up to a billion dollars? It takes a great leap of faith to come up with a way that we could have gotten somethig in return for Lin.

      On the other hand, it is very reasonable to suggest that the Knicks could have matched and eventually gotten something in return down the road. Huge risk, though, both in terms of possible financial/cap implications, locker room/chemistry issues, media circus, etc., in the very short Melo/Amare/Chandler window.

      When I went to the Garden for a Linsanity game vs. the Hawks, the Gardent was packed with Lin supporters. If Woodson (or Melo, since he gets blamed for everything) relegated Lin to the bench behind Felton and Nash, all those fans who paid premiums on StubHub for tickets just to see Lin, stoked into a frenzy by the media, would be ready to burn the Garden down. I have no indication that this was a factor in not matching, but it should have been. You would have to be relatively certain that Lin would be a better player than Felton, or t least WAY better than Kidd, for the next 2 years to justify the risk of that killer contract. To me, it comes down to Houston wanting Lin way more than the Knicks did, and Lin being convinced that the Knicks didn’t offer enough (money, interest, confidence in his game, whatever) to even think about not signing.

    22. Z-man

      I can also imagine a scenario where all parties benefit…Lin earns his money in publicity, revenue, etc. but just plays so-so as a starter, and Felton plays the best ball of his career and he and Kidd are important cogs for a deep playoff run by the Knicks for two straight years.

    23. massive

      We should have turned Lin into some assets the way we did with David Lee. I guess the problem was that Houston struck first and we didn’t already have Lin’s replacement on the team until Lin had an offer. I think we could have swung a deal for Goran Dragic and (maybe Terrence Jones) if we tried, but it’s all water under the bridge. At least Felton, Melo, and Stat are coming into this season with chips on their shoulders. Hopefully, that leads to a few more wins than their career stats would suggest.

    24. massive

      @28,

      Ben Wallace, Rashard Lewis, Jason Maxiell, Kris Humphries, Lou Williams, Dahntay Jones, Antonio Daniels, and even Al Harrington and Jamal Crawford were on that list of players.

    25. Z-man

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Funny. You pick one player out of dozens and you think you’re vindicated. That sounds, well, idiotic to me.

      Did you read your own post? You said “find a player” which means one. I found one in 2 minutes. And you’re a college professor?

      The dumbest part of your statement is that we are talking about filling a 15th spot on a roster with a 21 year old kid who was picked in the late second round, showed very little in very limited NBA minutes as a 20yo, but is apparently shooting the lights out in the summer league this year. Which is exactly where you put the “one in dozens” prospects.

    26. flossy

      If Josh Selby ends up on the Knicks that will pretty much remove all doubt that Melo is our de facto GM. I’d be fine with the move actually, I think Selby is more talented than his draft position or play last year would indicate and that he’s the perfect low-risk/high reward roster filler for a team with zero untapped upside left. But yeah. He’s practically Melo’s cousin.

    27. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Z-man: Did you read your own post?You said “find a player” which means one.I found one in 2 minutes.

      Look back through the list and realize that none of those players save Michael Redd (who played 35 minutes that season) were in the -0.100 range, which is what I asked for in the first place. Can you read?

    28. massive

      BigBlueAL:
      I like this Prigioni from what Ive seen so far today.

      Yeah, he seems confident, and he hasn’t turned the ball over the way other guards do against the USA full court press.

    29. citizen

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:

      Then, look back through the list and realize that none of those players save Michael Redd (who played 35 minutes that season) were in the -0.100 range, which is what I asked for in the first place. Can you read?

      Actually, for WS48<-.1 if you take out players that were rookies in either 2011-12 or 2010-11 (Bradley, Luke Babbitt, & Dexter Pittman among them) – we don't have enough data on them to know if they'll actually be "productive," you have 11 players:

      Rashard Lewis
      Michael Redd
      DeSagana Diop
      Dahntay Jones
      Dorell Wright
      Earl Barron
      Von Wafer
      Darryl Watkins
      Trey Johnson
      Walter Sharpe
      Sonny Weems

      Of these, I'd say that there turned out to be two good players (Lewis, Redd), an average starter (Wright), two productive bench players (Diop, Jones), and one borderline bench player (Wafer), with the rest being scrubs. 6/11 is not so bad…a retraction is in order

    30. BigBlueAL

      Prigioni getting alot of praise on Twitter for his game today. Dunno the exact stats since I havent found a box score but I know he hit at least 2 3pters that I saw and easily had a few assists.

    31. arthurprescott2

      massive: Yeah, he seems confident, and he hasn’t turned the ball over the way other guards do against the USA full court press.

      Agreed! Unlike some PGs I could name who would have coughed up the rock + $20 on top of that, facing full-court press like that… :P But in case, you could see his experience.

    32. 2FOR18

      WTF kind of apology is that ?

      ““I regret any disruption my accident last weekend may have caused members of the community and want to thank the local authorities,” he said in a post.”

    33. 2FOR18

      Z-man:
      Is there anyone who seriously thinks that Lin went back and demanded more money?

      What is clear is that the Knicks weren’t focused on keeping Lin and Lin was not focused on staying. Hence, both sides have nothing to complain about.

      I don’t know about the 2nd part.
      When your coach is saying that you’re penciled in to start next year, and your team is putting out word (according to “reports”, anyway) that they’re going to match any offer, I would think Lin thought they were going to match.
      Now when they traded for Felton and melo and JR vomited their comments about his contract, then at that point I wouldn’t be surprised if Lin said “I don’t need this crap” and hoped they wouldn’t match. And let’s not forget JR’s opening salvo about wanting to be on the court whenever Kidd is. At the time I felt it was very disrespectful to Lin, and in hindsight I believe JR knew Lin was gone.
      I’m happy for Lin. He got paid and he’s in a healthier environment.

    34. 2FOR18

      Cousyfan:
      I am back just to give you guys some reality.
      If you people would be interested in what really happened,
      check this out.
      http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/anatomy-of-a-deal-how-the-rockets-landed-jeremy-lin/
      This sets the record straight; no more guessing.
      Cheers

      “Within hours, it became clear that delivering the offer sheet to Knicks general manager Glen Grunwald would be a challenge. Grunwald refused to answer the door to his room at the Mandarin Oriental or come to the front desk to accept the offer sheet. The Rockets sent representatives to Knicks practice and later to their game, but Grunwald did not attend and would not set up a time to meet.

      Having just completed the sign-and-trade that sent Marcus Camby to New York, the Rockets had the contract information ready for the Knicks’ attorneys and emailed Lin the offer sheet, also sending it through overnight delivery to the Knicks’ offices in New York. Still, they tried to get a ruling from the NBA about when the offer sheet would be considered to have been received, starting the three-day period for the Knicks to match.

      “We asked the league for help,” Morey said. “They gave us advice. We did what they suggested. They say they consider it a team-to-team issue.”

      The above makes me think Hahn is an MSG stooge. During a SL game, I watched/heard Hahn report that league rules stated that the _______ had to physically receive the offer sheet in their Office, that the Rockets could not simply just walk up to Grunwald and give him the offer sheet.
      If anyone can find the clip I’d love to see it to see if I’m remembering this properly.

    35. hnwingo

      Letting Lin go was a huge mistake and among the most disappointing moments in my forty years as a Knick fan, a time filled with nothing but disappointment. The exact scenario that the Carmelo/Stoudemire/Chandler core needed to possibly contend happened: the Knicks found a player with All-Star potential and the ability to create offense even though the Knicks have no cap room and no good draft picks.
      Their luck continued with the favorable Bird rights ruling.
      To squander this good fortune and possible strong run during the prime of Carmelo and Chandler is exceedingly dumb.
      Lin may not be a top quality point guard but he does have this potential. Felton, Kidd, and EU signee do not.
      Not as disappointing as Bernard’s knee injury, or Charles Smith but in the top ten worst moments in my time as a Knick fan.

    36. Z-man

      hnwingo: Letting Lin go was a huge mistake and among the most disappointing moments in my forty years as a Knick fan, a time filled with nothing but disappointment. The exact scenario that the Carmelo/Stoudemire/Chandler core needed to possibly contend happened: the Knicks found a player with All-Star potential and the ability to create offense even though the Knicks have no cap room and no good draft picks.Their luck continued with the favorable Bird rights ruling.To squander this good fortune and possible strong run during the prime of Carmelo and Chandler is exceedingly dumb.Lin may not be a top quality point guard but he does have this potential. Felton, Kidd, and EU signee do not.Not as disappointing as Bernard’s knee injury, or Charles Smith but in the top ten worst moments in my time as a Knick fan.

      Wow, I’ve been a diehard fan for 45 years and this is not even close to a top-10 worst moment. Of course, people have lamented the loss of many a “future great” like Trevor Ariza, David Lee, Nate Robinson, Gallo, Fields amd Lin to name a few in recent years. And here we are, with the best team we have had in more than a decade and massive contracts all expiring at in three years. I still don’t see why anyone thinks that Lin has more potential than Felton, especially in the next 2 years, but I’m sure there will be lots of fun conversations here about that down the road.

    37. bobneptune

      Z-man:
      I can also imagine a scenario where all parties benefit…Lin earns his money in publicity, revenue, etc. but just plays so-so as a starter, and Felton plays the best ball of his career and he and Kidd are important cogs for a deep playoff run by the Knicks for two straight years.

      Z,

      This post was an intricate level, correct?

      You can imagine where Felton plays the best ball of his career? Off of exactly what? His stellar 2012? his lifetime ws/48 of 0.67?

      I marvel at the convoluted logic that is used to justify positions sometimes.

    38. Z

      hnwingo:

      Not as disappointing as Bernard’s knee injury, or Charles Smith but in the top ten worst moments in my time as a Knick fan.

      I don’t go back 40 years. Just to 1988. Bernard aside, I put this as #1.

      Smith’s misses at least came in game 6 of the ECF.
      Reggie’s 25 in the 4th came in game 5 of the ECF.
      Reggie’s 8 pts in 7 secs came in the semis.
      Same as Ewing’s finger roll.

      These were all competitive teams that either had a moment of bad luck or an isolated choke. I can live with this kind of disappointment as a fan.

      What I can’t live with is making the same bone-headed strategic mistakes over and over and over and over again. Ewing’s expiring contract for Glen Rice; Rice’s contract for Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley; Camby and Nene for McDyess; Cap space and picks for Marbury; Cap space and picks for Curry; Cap space and Channing Frye for Randolph; Cap space and Ariza for Francis; Gallinari and Chandler and draft picks and cap space for Carmelo… it’s all part of a blatant and horrible trend that culminated in letting the one bit of good fortune that could possibly erase all the years of horrible decision making.

      I hated losing Gallo for Carmelo. And it really hurt to see him score 39 against us while Carmelo went 3-17. That may have been the beginning of the end for me. But pissing Lin away Lin moved it from the beginning of the end to the end of the end.

      24 years.

      Thousands of lost hours.

      Tens of thousands of lost dollars.

      “Cut and run,” I tell myself. “It’s a sunk cost.”

      So cut and run I plan to do, as far away from this god forsaken franchise as I can.

      For those who opt to stay, have fun “rooting for the laundry”. May I suggest an extra cup of tide and some industrial strength bleach in the next load. To try to wash away the putrid stains of the past twelve years.

    39. bobneptune

      Z-man: I still don’t see why anyone thinks that Lin has more potential than Felton, especially in the next 2 years, but I’m sure there will be lots of fun conversations here about that down the road.

      If you believe advanced statistics give a reasonable representation of the reality on the floor, then I don’t know how one can make that statement.

      You can argue jimmy d doesn’t want to pay the money. You can argue Melo will dump if the ball isn’t force fed to him enough. But it isn’t reasonable to expect Felton to have an epiphany in his 8th nba season when he has been a less than average player for 6 of 7 seasons and Lin will go into the crapper in his second full season.

    40. Z-man

      bobneptune: If you believe advanced statistics give a reasonable representation of the reality on the floor, then I don’t know how one can make that statement…. But it isn’t reasonable to expect Felton to have an epiphany in his 8th nba season when he has been a less than average player for 6 of 7 seasons and Lin will go into the crapper in his second full season.

      Lin has never played a full season, or even a half season, so next year will not be his second full season. He has played 25 games; you think his performance merits a $25 mil contract for 3 years, I don’t. I believe a guy has to go around the league a couple of times before judging potential. I do believe in advanced stats when the sample size is large enough; you think it was, I think it wasn’t.

      I also believe in trends and stability. Lin’s trend was downward, and Felton’s two seasons before last were upward, when he finally played on good teams. Felton played poorly for the first half of a lockout season, but was also woefully out of shape, and played much better the second half. He also played very well for the Knicks for a longer stretch than Lin did. He doesn’t have to have an epiphany, but to play like he did his first time around with the Knicks. On the other hand, if Lin plays like he did for the last 15 games of his Knicks career, he is certainly no better than Felton.

      Lin also shot .325 from 3, consistent with his poor 3-pt shooting for 4 full seasons at Harvard against inferior competition. It also bugged me big time that Lin not only played terribly vs. the Heat, he couldn’t even get the ball upcourt vs. Mario Chalmers. Just like Fields’ performance vs. Celts in playoffs bugged me.

      I guess you’ll be shocked if Felton outplays Lin statistically during the next two years. I certainly won’t.

    41. 2FOR18

      Z-man: Lin has never played a full season, or even a half season, so next year will not be his second full season.He has played 25 games; you think his performance merits a $25 mil contract for 3 years, I don’t.

      I also believe in trends and stability. Lin’s trend was downward, and Felton’s two seasons before last were upward, when he finally played on good teams.

      I guess you’ll be shocked if Felton outplays Lin statistically during the next two years. I certainly won’t.

      - Lin at 25 mil over 3 years seems like a better value than Amare at 100 mil/5 yrs. It’s also a better value than the 18.5 mil melo got paid for that atrocity last season.

      - By saying that Lin was trending downward and Felton was trending upward, you’re penalizing Lin for playing great and giving credit to Felton for sucking. So are you saying that if Lin played like a bad felton early on and then progressed to a regular Felton, you’d be more pro-Lin? You really are reaching now.

      -If you believe that and are not just rationalizing, then I think you’re in for a rough 2 years.

    42. Z-man

      In the second half of Lin’s career as a starter (13 games in March) he shot .406 from the field, .304 from 3 and averaged 14.6, 3.3, and 6.3 in 31mpg. But of course, it was all due to Melo, or injury, or D’Antoni “riding him like Secretariat”, or anything but Jeremy Lin regressing to who he really was projected to be as a player.

      When Felton was with the Knicks, after 3 months of all-star level PG play he had a poor January. Of course, that couldn’t have been due to D’Antoni “riding him like Secretariat” playing him 41 mpg in December, or constant trade rumors re: Melo, or anything but Felton regressing to his mean.

    43. thailandvc

      Feltons sucks period. He had half a good season 2 years ago. Not very good in Denver. Atrocious last year. He did play better than the first half but still crap. He played better when the games didn’t matter and LaMarcus got hurt.

      He admits that he was out of shape. Ok. If I accept that argument I have to ask why are you still out of shape NOW. I can only assume you gonna suck equally.

      Also, he’s been in the league forever. If people want to baseline his performance, why not look at his Bobcats days where he shot horribly. Why do people focus on the half of a season of in which he shot uncharacteristically career high %s.

      I can accept that FO didn’t like Lin that’s fine but that doesn’t make Felton good. There was a bevy of other PG available too.

      Pure shit execution by the FO.

    44. Z-man

      2FOR18: – Lin at 25 mil over 3 years seems like a better value than Amare at 100 mil/5 yrs. It’s also a better value than the 18.5 mil melo got paid for that atrocity last season.- By saying that Lin was trending downward and Felton was trending upward, you’re penalizing Lin for playing great and giving credit to Felton for sucking. So are you saying that if Lin played like a bad felton early on and then progressed to a regular Felton, you’d be more pro-Lin? You really are reaching now.-If you believe that and are not just rationalizing, then I think you’re in for a rough 2 years.

      So your respons is that since we overpaid for Amare and Melo, we should have no problem overpaying for Lin? Are you not capable of judging Lin’s contract on its own merits?

      Yes, I’d be more comfortable if Lin’s play in his last 13 games was better than in his first 13 games, and not the reverse. And I am way more comfortable with Felton making Felton money…if his deal was for 2years @ 5 mill and a third year at @15 mill, I wouldn’t expect the Knicks to sign him either.

    45. Z-man

      thailandvc: Feltons sucks period. He had half a good season 2 years ago. Not very good in Denver. Atrocious last year. He did play better than the first half but still crap. He played better when the games didn’t matter and LaMarcus got hurt. He admits that he was out of shape. Ok. If I accept that argument I have to ask why are you still out of shape NOW. I can only assume you gonna suck equally.Also, he’s been in the league forever. If people want to baseline his performance, why not look at his Bobcats days where he shot horribly. Why do people focus on the half of a season of in which he shot uncharacteristically career high %s. I can accept that FO didn’t like Lin that’s fine but that doesn’t make Felton good. There was a bevy of other PG available too. Pure shit execution by the FO.

      Really? What other PGs were available that we could sign at the time with the options we had available? And why do you think that Felton is out of shape now, when he was interviewed this week at a summer league game and looked fit and trim?

      Felton played with terrible teams in Charlotte. He shot pretty well his last year there, and pretty well for us and in Denver as well, making for two straight pretty good shooting years. At $10 mill for 3 years, given what our options were, he’s a very solid signing.

    46. bobneptune

      Z-man: Lin has never played a full season, or even a half season, so next year will not be his second full season.He has played 25 games; you think his performance merits a $25 mil contract for 3 years, I don’t. I believe a guy has to go around the league a couple of times before judging potential. I do believe in advanced stats when the sample size is large enough; you think it was, I think it wasn’t.

      I also believe in trends and stability. Lin’s trend was downward, and Felton’s two seasons before last were upward, when he finally played on good teams. Felton played poorly for the first half of a lockout season, but was also woefully out of shape, and played much better the second half. He also played very well for the Knicks for a longer stretch than Lin did. He doesn’t have to have an epiphany, but to play like he did his first time around with the Knicks. On the other hand, if Lin plays like he did for the last 15 games of his Knicks career, he is certainly no better than Felton.

      Lin also shot .325 from 3, consistent with his poor 3-pt shooting for 4 full seasons at Harvard against inferior competition. It also bugged me big time that Lin not only played terribly vs. the Heat, he couldn’t even get the ball upcourt vs. Mario Chalmers. Just like Fields’ performance vs. Celts in playoffs bugged me.

      I guess you’ll be shocked if Felton outplays Lin statistically during the next two years. I certainly won’t.

      I just want to be sure I understand you correctly: you say Lin’s sample size of 26 starts is way to small to make his .140 ws/48 significant, but you want to take a subset of those 26 starts when he was playing with a cartilage tear an say, “ah-ha! I knew he really sucked!”

      Then , you want to take the subset of Felton’s entire career and extrapolate off the games he played in NY in DANTONI’S system and neglect the entirety of…

    47. 2FOR18

      Z-man: So your respons is that since we overpaid for Amare and Melo, we should have no problem overpaying for Lin? Are you not capable of judging Lin’s contract on its own merits?

      Yes, I’d be more comfortable if Lin’s play in his last 13 games was better than in his first 13 games, and not the reverse. And I am way more comfortable with Felton making Felton money…if his deal was for 2years @ 5 mill and a third year at @15 mill, I wouldn’t expect the Knicks to sign him either.

      I think 8.3 mil a yr for 3 years is worth taking a chance on him based on what he’s done. If you don’t like looking at it that way, then fine, I’ll go with Lin being underpaid in the first 2 years and possibly overpaid in year 3.
      Ofcourse it’s relevant to talk about melo and Amare’s contracts, because that is the reason the tax hit comes into play, which is one of your points about why Lin’s contract was unreasonable.

    48. BigBlueAL

      Brian Cronin:
      Is Melo still starting for Team USA?

      Nope, he didnt start the last 2 games after starting the first 2 games (with the way Durant is playing he has to start). He was amazing last game off the bench, scored 19 on 8 for 10 shooting but struggled badly today. Although to be fair he was basically the backup Center today and played all of his 24 minutes covering Scola it seemed. Even when he and Love were on the floor at the same time during the 2nd period Melo was the one covering Scola which I found odd.

    49. Z-man

      No, what I’m saying is that we have no idea whether Lin is good or not, certainly no idea whether he will ever play basketball consistently at a level that would merit a $25 mill backloaded contract. My use of the last half vs. the first half is simply to rebut how stupid it is to use any part of Lin’s 26-game run to conclude anything in the long run, or for the next 2 years. And that the probability is just as high that Lin’s Linsanity run was a once-in-a-career run as it is that Felton’s all-star run in D’Antoni’s system for 40 games was a fluke. There is no way to call the math I used bad math without calling any math used to judge Lin bad math. It is a total crap shoot with him, and that contract was, IMHO, way too big for a total crap shoot. I just don’t get how stats-oriented people who claim to be Knicks fans for years are seeing this deal to be some kind of Armegeddon, or that Lin was our only hope to compete for a championship, or that he was destined to be the future of the franchise. If you choose to be deluded into thinking that 26 games of Lin play are a statistically significant sample but only when taken as a whole, and that averaging everything in is the best way to look at the data, fine. I wonder if you felt the same way about Landry Fields during his first season, when he put up great numbers for the first 50 games, then put up 30 games of mediocrity and a horrific playoff performance vs. the Celts. Would you have thought then that locking him up for 5 years at $8 million a year was a steal, or even smart, based on his solid overall numbers? Well, we have even less data for Lin and that data falls into two very different halves. Skeptics will look at the poor 3-pt shooting and the horrific performance vs. the Heat as warning signs; the Lin-believers will insist that Linsanity was real and that declines here and there had legit excuses, e.g. the knee, Melo vs. D’Antoni, etc.

    50. Z-man

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Look back through the list and realize that none of those players save Michael Redd (who played 35 minutes that season) were in the -0.100 range, which is what I asked for in the first place. Can you read?

      Selby just got named co-MVP of the summer league, oh, but you already declared that he will never be an NBA player, never mind.

    51. Brian Cronin

      Nope, he didnt start the last 2 games after starting the first 2 games (with the way Durant is playing he has to start). He was amazing last game off the bench, scored 19 on 8 for 10 shooting but struggled badly today. Although to be fair he was basically the backup Center today and played all of his 24 minutes covering Scola it seemed. Even when he and Love were on the floor at the same time during the 2nd period Melo was the one covering Scola which I found odd.

      Too bad. I liked the idea of starting him as a sort of “nod to the vet” thing. I mean, we knew Durant would play more minutes, but I still thought it was nice if Melo got to start.

    52. ruruland

      BigBlueAL: Nope, he didnt start the last 2 games after starting the first 2 games (with the way Durant is playing he has to start).He was amazing last game off the bench, scored 19 on 8 for 10 shooting but struggled badly today.Although to be fair he was basically the backup Center today and played all of his 24 minutes covering Scola it seemed.Even when he and Love were on the floor at the same time during the 2nd period Melo was the one covering Scola which I found odd.

      Not when you consider how good Melo is guarding the post. He’s elite for his size, and Love isn’t much bigger.

      Love is of course a far better rebounder as we know, but Ill take Melo in every defensive situation. Team USA clearly does, too.

    53. ruruland

      Z:

      I hated losing Gallo for Carmelo. And it really hurt to see him score 39 against us while Carmelo went 3-17. That may have been the beginning of the end for me.

      LMFAO

    54. ruruland

      2FOR18: I don’t know about the 2nd part.
      When your coach is saying that you’re penciled in to start next year, and your team is putting out word (according to “reports”, anyway) that they’re going to match any offer, I would think Lin thought they were going to match.
      Now when they traded for Felton and melo and JR vomited their comments about his contract, then at that point I wouldn’t be surprised if Lin said “I don’t need this crap” and hoped they wouldn’t match.And let’s not forget JR’s opening salvo about wanting to be on the court whenever Kidd is.At the time I felt it was very disrespectful to Lin, and in hindsight I believe JR knew Lin was gone.
      I’m happy for Lin.He got paid and he’s in a healthier environment.

      This is hilarious. Sorry, but most NBA players are not as emotionally immature as you, in this instance and most I’ve come across with you.

      Your premise makes ZERO sense in the first place. JR and Melo made their comments (taken out of context with Melo) after Lin had signed his offer sheet. WTF are you talking about?

    55. ruruland

      Z-man: Really? What other PGs were available that we could sign at the time with the options we had available? And why do you think that Felton is out of shape now, when he was interviewed this week at a summer league game and looked fit and trim?

      Felton played with terrible teams in Charlotte. He shot pretty well his last year there, and pretty well for us and in Denver as well, making for two straight pretty good shooting years. At $10 mill for 3 years, given what our options were, he’s a very solid signing.

      Felton was a top 80 defender on a good defensive team in Charlotte, according to Synergy. He can certainly be that in New York and it would be a huge upgrade from last year.

      Secondly, he’s an above average passer and penetrator, both in transition and in the pnr. He’s also an average spot-up player. he’s just a poor finisher and doesn’t get to the line very often.

      there’s this guy named Rose. His ts isn’t near elite, but his penetration creates a ton of offensive rebounds.

      Obviously Felton isn’t going to do what Rose does, but don’t take his TS% at face value. His TS% is not the same as someone who is primarily a jump shooter. He creates plays and movement on offense.

      If he’s worth, say .3- TS% points in Amar’e game, and perhaps .1 to .2% in defense, then he’s clearly a good NBA point guard and HUGE upgrade over what the Knicks had last year…

      the Knicks were on pace for 51 wins last year and outside of Chandler, I think they’ll be better at every single position.

    56. 2FOR18

      ruruland: Felton was a top 80 defender on a good defensive team in Charlotte, according to Synergy. He can certainly be that in New York and it would be a huge upgrade from last year.

      Secondly, he’s an above average passer and penetrator, both in transition and in the pnr. He’s also an average spot-up player. he’s just a poor finisher and doesn’t get to the line very often.

      there’s this guy named Rose. His ts isn’t near elite, but his penetration creates a ton of offensive rebounds.

      Obviously Felton isn’t going to do what Rose does, but don’t take his TS% at face value. His TS% is not the same as someone who is primarily a jump shooter. He creates plays and movement on offense.

      If he’s worth, say .3- TS% points in Amar’e game, and perhaps .1 to .2% in defense, then he’s clearly a good NBA point guard and HUGE upgrade over what the Knicks had last year…

      the Knicks were on pace for 51 wins last year and outside of Chandler, I think they’ll be better at every single position.

      OK, so it’s that time of night when you come on here to insult anyone who has been critical of melo or JR. Fine. No point in even engaging you on anything related to those two.

      But holy fukin shit, after months and tens of thousands of words telling us all how great the ______ are going be this year with a healthy Lin, now you’re gonna come on here and say they will get better PG play this year with Felton (“top 80 defender” – LMAO, that’s world class cherry picking) and Kidd than Lin?
      So now you’re a full blown water carrier for Felton? Why?

    57. Brian Cronin

      I believe the theory is not that Felton is better than Lin, but rather than a full season of Felton/Kidd is better than the totality of the Knick point guard position last season. Which is likely true. 31 games of crap play by Douglas, Bibby and Davis, 25 games of Lin and 10 games of mediocre play from Davis is overall pretty bad.

      So Felton and Kidd only have to be roughly average for the Knicks to improve at the point guard position. They’re not as good as they could have been by keeping Lin, but what they have is not bad.

    58. Robtachi

      Listen I am as unconvinced as anyone in Melo’s capacity for being a true star for this franchise, but they got him for Gallo, Chandler, picks and not much else. And that’s not to ignore the half-season of quality Chauncey which directly resulted in acquiring Tyson. I’m still doing that trade six days of the week and twice on Sunday.

    59. ruruland

      2FOR18: OK, so it’s that time of night when you come on here to insult anyone who has been critical of melo or JR.Fine.No point in even engaging you on anything related to those two.

      But holy fukin shit, after months and tens of thousands of words telling us all how great the ______ are going be this year with a healthy Lin, now you’re gonna come on here and say they will get better PG play this year with Felton (“top 80 defender” – LMAO, that’s world class cherry picking) and Kidd than Lin?
      So now you’re a full blown water carrier for Felton?Why?

      My position on Lin hasn’t changed. the kid is a stud and will probably deserve to play in a few all star games before it’s done. I think his falws will be corrected over time, though I do think he will have some growing pains as a primary option. As I’ve said a million times, he was key to the championship window with at least Amar’e (the Knicks will have to get lucky this year to have a shot), though I think the Knicks can regroup in a few years for a second run with Melo and Chandler.

    60. Brian Cronin

      Do you really think Chandler will be effective in four years? Melo, obviously, will be Melo until he’s 36 or so, but I dunno if I’d put much faith in Chandler still being an elite player when he’s 34. Centers are weird when it comes to aging. They age better in the sense that they last in the league longer, but they lose their elite status a bit earlier.

      Driving guards are still the worst agers in the NBA, though, of course.

    61. ruruland

      2FOR18: OK, so it’s that time of night when you come on here to insult anyone who has been critical of melo or JR.Fine.No point in even engaging you on anything related to those two.

      But holy fukin shit, after months and tens of thousands of words telling us all how great the ______ are going be this year with a healthy Lin, now you’re gonna come on here and say they will get better PG play this year with Felton (“top 80 defender” – LMAO, that’s world class cherry picking) and Kidd than Lin?
      So now you’re a full blown water carrier for Felton?Why?

      And Brian is correct. From 2009 through 2011, on three different teams, Felton was a quality NBA point guard. And much with Synergy and any advanced statistic measuring defense, team defense will always significantly imrpove your numbers.

      I watched Felton in Denver and New York, the guy is a good fit and can play both ends.

      of course, it would have been great to see a Felton/Lin backcourt together, but alas we must move forward.

    62. BigBlueAL

      ruruland: Not when you consider how good Melo is guarding the post. He’s elite for his size, and Love isn’t much bigger.

      Love is of course a far better rebounder as we know, but Ill take Melo in every defensive situation. Team USA clearly does, too.

      The only thing I dont like about Melo when he guards the post (or on the perimeter for that matter) is he flails with his arms way too much which leads to alot of silly fouls. Also Manu absolutely torched him on a PnR which lead to an And1 for Manu. It was Amar’e type D by Melo lol

      Like I said I wasnt criticizing Melo’s D just that if Love is your backup big guy and is arguably the best rebounder on the planet its pretty sad that when he is on the floor with Melo that Melo covers the opposing center and not Love. It happened against Great Britain too with Melo having to bang in the post with Mensah-Bansu or however you spell it and not Love. Actually when Melo is in even with Durant and LeBron he is stuck covering the opposing center as well Ive noticed. Must not be physically easy for Melo to have to deal with that all summer long.

    63. BigBlueAL

      Brian Cronin:
      Do you really think Chandler will be effective in four years? Melo, obviously, will be Melo until he’s 36 or so, but I dunno if I’d put much faith in Chandler still being an elite player when he’s 34. Centers are weird when it comes to aging. They age better in the sense that they last in the league longer, but they lose their elite status early. Shaq, for instance, stopped being an elite player at 33.

      Chandler is not an offensive center though. I can easily see Chandler having a career as long and effective as Camby. Granted he came into the NBA straight out of high-school so he might not play until he is 40 but I can easily see Chandler being solid until his mid to late 30′s. As long as he stays healthy of course.

    64. 2FOR18

      BigBlueAL: Chandler is not an offensive center though.I can easily see Chandler having a career as long and effective as Camby.Granted he came into the NBA straight out of high-school so he might not play until he is 40 but I can easily see Chandler being solid until his mid to late 30?s.As long as he stays healthy of course.

      Mutombo is another defensive C that lasted forever.

      But wait, is everyone saying that melo is going to re-sign here when his contract is up? Is this a done deal?

    65. Brian Cronin

      I don’t believe Melo will ever willingly leave New York. If he doesn’t win a title, he’ll want to win a title before he goes elsewhere. If he wins a title, then, well, he’ll have won a title and won’t want to go elsewhere. I could see a situation where he gets dealt in two or three years, but I think that’s unlikely. He’s likely going to be a Knick until he retires.

    66. Brian Cronin

      Chandler is not an offensive center though. I can easily see Chandler having a career as long and effective as Camby. Granted he came into the NBA straight out of high-school so he might not play until he is 40 but I can easily see Chandler being solid until his mid to late 30?s. As long as he stays healthy of course.

      Health issues, though, are what worry me as he gets into his 30s.

      I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have Chandler on the Knicks until he retires. I just dunno if I would count on him as being a core player in four years.

    67. BigBlueAL

      Heck Ewing in his final 2 seasons with the Knicks as banged up and old as he was (36 and 37) still was an above average player due to his still excellent defense and rebounding. His age 34 and 35 seasons prior to breaking his wrist he was having much better seasons than he had in his age 32 and 33 seasons.

    68. 2FOR18

      ruruland: My position on Lin hasn’t changed. the kid is a stud and will probably deserve to play in a few all star games before it’s done. I think his falws will be corrected over time, though I do think he will have some growing pains as a primary option. As I’ve said a million times, he waskey to the championship window with at least Amar’e (the Knicks will have to get lucky this year to have a shot), though I think the Knicks can regroup in a few years for a second run with Melo and Chandler.

      Fair enough if you’re saying that a full season of Felton and Kidd is better than a third of a season of Lin plus last year’s crap.

    69. yellowboy90

      BigBlueAL: The only thing I dont like about Melo when he guards the post (or on the perimeter for that matter) is he flails with his arms way too much which leads to alot of silly fouls.Also Manu absolutely torched him on a PnR which lead to an And1 for Manu.It was Amar’e type D by Melo lol

      Like I said I wasnt criticizing Melo’s D just that if Love is your backup big guy and is arguably the best rebounder on the planet its pretty sad that when he is on the floor with Melo that Melo covers the opposing center and not Love.It happened against Great Britain too with Melo having to bang in the post with Mensah-Bansu or however you spell it and not Love.Actually when Melo is in even with Durant and LeBron he is stuck covering the opposing center as well Ive noticed.Must not be physically easy for Melo to have to deal with that all summer long.

      On top of that he lost weight supposedly so that probably hurts him now too but can so one tell him to stop face guarding his man when rebounding. It’s terrible lazy technique and annoying to watch. lol. Seriously who else does that. Melo is my boy but dang.

    70. thailandvc

      Can you link me to the latest picture you have? I have one of him in May, still fat and holding a freakin cupcake.

      Lowry, Collison, DJ, Brooks, Goran, Calderon, Session, Dre Miller, Nelson, and Mo Williams.

      All of them were/is available at some point. Not saying they are all a good fit or would’ve cost the same but those were the options.

      Living in the WC, I’ve seen plenty of Blazers games. He sucks. And the word “slow” was used often to describe him by local media.

      Top 80 defender? LMFAO. People gameplan around attacking him.

      Z-man: Really? What other PGs were available that we could sign at the time with the options we had available? And why do you think that Felton is out of shape now, when he was interviewed this week at a summer league game and looked fit and trim?

      Felton played with terrible teams in Charlotte. He shot pretty well his last year there, and pretty well for us and in Denver as well, making for two straight pretty good shooting years. At $10 mill for 3 years, given what our options were, he’s a very solid signing.

    71. Brian Cronin

      Bayless would have been a really nice signing.

      I can’t believe he went for just $3 million. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I suppose that the Knicks never really had a chance at him because his QO was rescinded after Kidd signed with the Knicks (and the Knicks likely felt that he would have received more than $3 million from another team if his QO was rescinded) but it still irks to see a good, young point guard who can also play an adequate 2 sign for $3 million and the Knicks not even being in on him.

    72. Brian Cronin

      Can you link me to the latest picture you have? I have one of him in May, still fat and holding a freakin cupcake.

      Lowry, Collison, DJ, Brooks, Goran, Calderon, Session, Dre Miller, Nelson, and Mo Williams.

      All of them were/is available at some point. Not saying they are all a good fit or would’ve cost the same but those were the options.

      Dragic signed for nearly three times as much as the Knicks signed Felton for. Nelson signed for more than twice as much as the Knicks signed Felton for. Andre Miller and Ramon Sessions signed for nearly twice as much money as Felton.

      Lowry was dealt for a lottery pick. The Knicks had none to trade.

      Mo Williams was acquired for Lamar Odom. The Knicks did not have someone of that caliber to deal for Williams.

      Darren Collison was acquired in a trade for a re-signed Ian Mahinmi, who the Pacers apparently actually really wanted. The Knicks had no one as good as Mahinmi to trade.

      Calderon is still a Raptor. He could only be acquired by trade (someone good). The Knicks have no one to trade for him.

      Only Brooks and Augustin were really available for the Knicks.

      Brooks has had good NBA seasons, but never a great one. Plus, he missed the entirety of last season and was terrible the season before that (for two separate teams).

      Augustin is the only guy left over that you could make a good case is better than Felton, but if he is better, it is not a clear decision at all.. I’d say it was pretty darn close. I’d certainly prefer Felton, but Augustin does have the advantage of youth. They would have had to make a deal with Charlotte for him, though, and I dunno if that would even be feasible.

    73. Brian Cronin

      So with that said, if the Knicks were insistent on being dumb and not matching Lin’s offer sheet, Felton was likely the “best” bet to replace Lin. And if Grunwald was seriously dealing with a situation where he couldn’t get Lin, then getting Felton was really quite inspired. I mean, Gadzuric and a re-signed Jared Jeffries? That’s some clever GMing right there. And to get Kurt Thomas just for the heck of it? Very cool.

    74. Frank

      Brian Cronin:
      So with that said, if the Knicks were insistent on being dumb and not matching Lin’s offer sheet, Felton was likely the “best” bet to replace Lin. And if Grunwald was seriously dealing with a situation where he couldn’t get Lin, then getting Felton was really quite inspired. I mean, Gadzuric anda re-signed Jared Jeffries? That’s some clever GMing right there. And to get Kurt Thomas just for the heck of it? Very cool.

      Yeah, I am very impressed with Grunwald as a GM, especially if you give him the benefit of the doubt on the Lin situation. That situation obviously was a tough decision, but to come out of this offseason with a bunch of proven (grizzled) vets to shore up the biggest weaknesses on this team really is good job, especially considering we did not have much in the way of flexibility. If he can just sign one defensive wing player (who hopefully can shoot), I feel comfortable saying that we are a much better team now than the one that went 18-6 at the end of last season.

      I’ll miss Jeremy as much as anyone, but Felton is really not a bad pickup for ~1/3 the price, especially if he’s in shape (which is sounds like he is, and with a huge chip on his shoulder to boot!). The backup C position was a HUGE weakness for us last year, and I can imagine them playing the two of them together at times with Tyson guarding the 4. We can play big against the Utahs of the world, we can play small ball against Miami, we can run, etc. I think 55 wins is a very reachable goal.

    75. Frank

      Re: our Four Factor weaknesses last year on offense – clearly the 2 most glaring things were our EFG and TO-R. Our eFG actually got much better as the year went along (Novak’s increased minutes, Melo getting on track in March/April, Amare getting better) and we actually ended up middle of the pack – but TD and Fields REALLY killed us in the beginning of the year. Our turnover rate was just horrible – 4th worst in the whole league. And that has everything to do with PG play since our 3 PGs (TD, Lin, Baron) averaged 3.1, 4.8, and 4.6 TOs per 36 respectively. This year, we’ll have Felton (career 2.7 TOs/36) and Kidd (career 2.9 TOs/36) – that in and of itself may gain us 2 points on offense and 2 points on defense per game (net +4). Obviously Lin brought his tremendous free throw rate to the table on offense, which will get much worse with Felton, who gets to the line about 1/2 as often.

      We were also not so good on the rebounding side – as I remember it we were in the top 5-6 in DRR for much of the year before completely falling apart at the end (ended up 12th), and were never a good offensive rebounding team. Camby can’t help but improve that, at least for the 15-20 min/game or so that he is there, and Kidd should make some tangible difference as well.

    76. Z-man

      Brian Cronin: Dragic signed for nearly three times as much as the Knicks signed Felton for. Nelson signed for more than twice as much as the Knicks signed Felton for. Andre Miller and Ramon Sessions signed for nearly twice as much money as Felton. Lowry was dealt for a lottery pick. The Knicks had none to trade.Mo Williams was acquired for Lamar Odom. The Knicks did not have someone of that caliber to deal for Williams. Darren Collison was acquired in a trade for a re-signed Ian Mahinmi, who the Pacers apparently actually really wanted. The Knicks had no one as good as Mahinmi to trade.Calderon is still a Raptor. He could only be acquired by trade (someone good). The Knicks have no one to trade for him.Only Brooks and Augustin were really available for the Knicks. Brooks has had good NBA seasons, but never a great one. Plus, he missed the entirety of last season and was terrible the season before that (for two separate teams). Augustin is the only guy left over that you could make a good case is better than Felton, but if he is better, it is not a clear decision at all.. I’d say it was pretty darn close. I’d certainly prefer Felton, but Augustin does have the advantage of youth. They would have had to make a deal with Charlotte for him, though, and I dunno if that would even be feasible.

      Thanks, Brian, I couldn’t have said it better.

    77. Z-man

      Robtachi: Listen I am as unconvinced as anyone in Melo’s capacity for being a true star for this franchise, but they got him for Gallo, Chandler, picks and not much else. And that’s not to ignore the half-season of quality Chauncey which directly resulted in acquiring Tyson. I’m still doing that trade six days of the week and twice on Sunday.

      Yeah, people conveniently forget that we really traded all that stuf for Melo AND Chandler. I mean, we went from having the worst interior defense in the league to having the DPOY manning the middle.

    78. thailandvc

      1) Shouldn’t we compare the salaries with the salary Lin would’ve gotten pre poison pill if you want to do an analysis whether they can be had. Comparing that them to Felton’s salary is just comparing “value.” If, you want to analyze what could’ve been had in lieu of Felton then its the hurdle price FO said they were willing.

      2) MO would’ve been nice. Played with Lebron. Strong shooting%s. Also, we didn’t have someone as good as Odom? Maybe, but it’s debatable. When it’s a debatable case, wouldn’t a good GM be able make the final push?

      Brian Cronin: Dragic signed for nearly three times as much as the Knicks signed Felton for. Nelson signed for more than twice as much as the Knicks signed Felton for. Andre Miller and Ramon Sessions signed for nearly twice as much money as Felton.

      Lowry was dealt for a lottery pick. The Knicks had none to trade.

      Mo Williams was acquired for Lamar Odom. The Knicks did not have someone of that caliber to deal for Williams.

      Darren Collison was acquired in a trade for a re-signed Ian Mahinmi, who the Pacers apparently actually really wanted. The Knicks had no one as good as Mahinmi to trade.

      Calderon is still a Raptor. He could only be acquired by trade (someone good). The Knicks have no one to trade for him.

      Only Brooks and Augustin were really available for the Knicks.

      Brooks has had good NBA seasons, but never a great one. Plus, he missed the entirety of last season and was terrible the season before that (for two separate teams).

      Augustin is the only guy left over that you could make a good case is better than Felton, but if he is better, it is not a clear decision at all.. I’d say it was pretty darn close. I’d certainly prefer Felton, but Augustin does have the advantage of youth. They would have had to make a deal with Charlotte for him, though, and I dunno if that…

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