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Sunday, December 21, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Jul 15 2012)

  • [New York Post] J.R. Smith’s brother faces uphill battle to stick with Knicks (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 04:15:17 -0500)
    LAS VEGAS â?? Point guard Chris Smith has one big supporter on the Knicks in his brother J.R. Smith, but he will need more than that. He will need a good five games in the Las Vegas summer league that began Saturday for the Knicks.
    He was off to a…

  • [New York Post] Garden brass chose game over glitter (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 03:48:35 -0500)
    Maybe the first reaction will be anger, or sadness, or regret, because we were all there in those early hours of Jeremy Lin’s reign, when it seemed he was equal parts Joe Hardy and Roy Hobbs, when every night brought something new, when Knicks fans learned to fall in…

  • [New York Post] Source: Knicks won’t match Houston’s offer to Lin after trading for Felton (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 05:11:43 -0500)

    The Knicks’ signing of Raymond Felton all but guarantees that Jeremy Lin will join the Houston Rockets, league sources told The Post.

    LAS VEGAS â?? Linsanity got his money, but it looks like it won’t be from the Knicks.
    In a stunning turn of events in the past 24 hours…

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Would you match Rockets' offer for Lin? (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 02:17:17 EDT)
    The Knicks are officially on the clock.

    Jeremy Lin
    #17 PGNew York Knicks
    2012 STATS

    GM35
    PPG14.6
    RPG3.1
    APG6.2
    FG%.446
    FT%.798

    According to ESPN.com’s Marc Stein, the Knicks officially received Jeremy Lin’s 3-year, $25 million offer sheet from Houston on Saturday night, meaning they have until 11:59 p.m. ET on Tuesday to match it or let Lin go to the Rockets.
    At first look, it seems like it makes little sense for the Knicks to match.

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] What's next for the Knicks? (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 01:44:49 EDT)
    At the end of the season and on Thursday in Las Vegas, Mike Woodson said Jeremy Lin will “absolutely” be the starting point guard next season.
    As for matching the Houston Rockets’ three-year, roughly $25 million offer sheet, Woodson said the Knicks would “absolutely” (once again) do so. In fact, he said he didn’t even blink once when the high offer was made.

    Raymond Felton
    #5 PG
    Portland Trail Blazers
    2012 STATS

    GM60
    PPG11.4
    RPG2.

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Sources: Knicks trade for Felton; Lin out? (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 00:50:13 EDT)
    The New York Knicks have agreed to a sign-and-trade deal with the Portland Trail Blazers that will bring point guard Raymond Felton and center Kurt Thomas to New York in exchange for center Dan Gadzuric and forward Jared Jeffries, league sources confirmed Saturday night.

    Raymond Felton
    #5 PGPortland Trail Blazers
    2012 STATS

    GM60
    PPG11.4
    RPG2.5
    APG6.5
    FG%.407
    FT%.806

    The deal, for three years and $10 million according to USA Today, raises the possibility the Knicks will not match the offer sheet Jeremy Lin signed with the Houston Rockets earlier this week.

  • [New York Newsday] Raymond Felton acquired by Knicks, sources say, raising questions about Jeremy Lin's future (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 00:47:34 EDT)
    Raymond Felton is coming back to the Knicks, and it raises questions about the future of Jeremy Lin.

  • [New York Times] Jeremy Lin’s Future With Knicks Seems Uncertain (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 05:30:07 GMT)
    The Knicks struck a deal to reacquire Raymond Felton, the veteran point guard, sparking immediate, furious speculation that the franchise was ready to let Jeremy Lin leave for Houston.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Basketball: Hornets Keep Eric Gordon (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 04:20:05 GMT)
    The New Orleans Hornets have matched the Phoenix Suns’ four-year, $58 million offer to Eric Gordon, a restricted-free-agent guard.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Basketball: Celtics Sign Kevin Garnett (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 05:40:05 GMT)
    The Boston Celtics made it official Saturday more than a week after Kevin Garnett reportedly agreed to a three-year contract.

  • [New York Times] Felton Returning to Knicks as Option if Lin Goes (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 05:26:12 GMT)
    Raymond Felton is returning to New York, calling into question whether the Knicks plan to re-sign fellow point guard Jeremy Lin.

  • [New York Times] NBA Rookie of Year Kyrie Irving Breaks Right Hand (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 04:44:20 GMT)
    Kyrie Irving, the NBA’s reigning rookie of the year, broke his right hand during the Cavaliers’ practice on Saturday in Las Vegas.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: First-Rate Second Option For Nets’ Offense (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 02:37:33 GMT)
    Acquired in a trade with the Hawks in which the Nets did not have to surrender any of the team’s key players, Joe Johnson is an underrated star who may finally have found the right home.

  • [New York Daily News] Last game Lin orange & blue? Jeremy may be out of mix after Knicks look to deal for Felton (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 07:13:50 GMT)
    In a stunning turn of events, the Daily News has learned that the Knicks completed a trade to acquire point guard Raymond Felton from the Portland Trail Blazers

  • [New York Daily News] Raissman: Linsanity can end in a N.Y. minute (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 07:04:22 GMT)
    It’s good being Jeremy Lin. You got a new $25 million contract on the horizon after signing an offer sheet with the Rockets Friday, an ESPY Award and bow tie to boot.

  • [New York Daily News] Lupica: If this leadsALL to Paul, it’s smart move  (Sun, 15 Jul 2012 06:30:24 GMT)
    The Knicks may still buy into the notion that Jeremy Lin is some kind of savior-in-waiting for them. But if they essentially buy Lin off the Rockets for the offer sheet Houston has offered him, maybe they are the ones who are a little bit Linsane.

  • 206 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Jul 15 2012)

    1. yehudi3000

      I think the knicks haven’t decide yet.
      That why they were avoiding the rocket all the weekend.

      They have to do that math, i think that they will end up signing him, but Felton’s comment made me very scared.

    2. daaarn

      If the talk about Lin secretly going back to renegotiate the Houston deal after being told he’d be matched is true, then that changes my opinion on things. If you’re that desperate to get out, then adios. Still, I’d love nothing more for the Knicks to match, if only to just screw over Houston and Morey. I developed an irrational hatred of the Rockets organization after we lost to them in ’94 that abated with time, but something like this will undoubtedly re-ignite it.

    3. Mulligan

      Still doesn’t make sense. We’re talking about a major cap hit 2 years from now. You don’t make this move now when you have at least 2 years to solve that problem. Plenty of teams have found ways to shed contracts that seem untradeable. You don’t do this now, particularly with a player more than worth that contract in terms of revenue for your team. Ain’t happening.
      Meanwhile, we take a flyer on Felton, let him rebuild his reputation and trade him when he has more value when some team’s pg goes down.

    4. garfangle

      Lin was away upfront in getting the max offer possible. The new deal gives him that. It is just structured to be cap unfriendly to the Knicks.

      The Knicks could have made an offer that helped them by either giving him equal amounts per year or front-loaded the contract, but chose not to.

      daaarn:
      If the talk about Lin secretly going back to renegotiate the Houston deal after being told he’d be matched is true, then that changes my opinion on things. If you’re that desperate to get out, then adios. Still, I’d love nothing more for the Knicks to match, if only to just screw over Houston and Morey. I developed an irrational hatred of the Rockets organization after we lost to them in ’94 that abated with time, but something like this will undoubtedly re-ignite it.

    5. garfangle

      always

      garfangle:
      Lin was away upfront in getting the max offer possible.The new deal gives him that.It is just structured to be cap unfriendly to the Knicks.

      The Knicks could have made an offer that helped them by either giving him equal amounts per year or front-loaded the contract, but chose not to.

    6. Z-man

      You guys are getting WAY carried away with Lin. Let me play devil’s advocate. Look carefully at his splits for February (12 starts) and March (13 starts) from last year.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/linje01/splits/2012/

      Remember how Kobe said he had no idea who Lin was before Lin torched the Lakers? After that game, Kobe said, “he will receive judgment next year.” Once the book was out on Lin: make him go left, hammer him if he penetrates, etc., he 1) started breaking down physically and 2) started shooting at a very Felton-like percentage: 40% from the field. His assists went down as well. He went to the line less, a lot less. During the entirety of Linsanity, he consistently shot .325 from 3, but the illusion is that he’s a great 3-pt shooter because of the timely 3’s vs. Lakers and Toronto. And after he went down, the team played some of its best ball of the season…with BARON DAVIS as its starting PG and MIKE BIBBY backing him up.

      Lin just had a very significant knee surgery and no one has seen him play since. If he lost even an iota of quickness, he will very likely play to his post Linsanity numbers. Even during Linsanity, at full health, he was absolutely TORCHED by Jose Calderon. JOSE CALDERON! To the point where Shump had to be switched to guard him. He is not only not a secret anymore, the pressure on him will be immense, and the opposition (especially PGs) are gonna do everything possible to embarrass him and hurt him.

      The 10 games of Linsanity are ancient history, guys. The reality is that Lin is most likely to be a middling starting PG for the next 2 years, probably not very much better than Felton, and much more likely to go down with injury. Also, please take a good look at the Prigioni clips and tell me what Lin has proven he can do that Prigioni can’t.

    7. Z-man

      Continuing, recall that we (me included) were convinced that Fields was the next John Havlicek after he won NBA Rookie of the Month twice in a row. Be honest with yourselves: how many of you would have “jumped ship” if he was packaged in the Melo deal instead of Felton? And then reality set in and Landry was exposed for what he was…a solid second round pick with serious limitations and nothing more. Now imagine Fields making fucking $15 million next year, plus costing between $37 and $47 in ADDITIONAL luxury tax.

      Anybody who jumps ship over this deal is just plain silly. The Knicks will be a very exciting team to watch for the next 3 years, with or without Lin.

    8. daaarn

      Just saw Darko cleared waivers. Given the recent trend, who thinks the Knicks’ll pick him up again haha? [and at this point, I’m only half joking]

    9. thenamestsam

      Z-man I’m with you that Lin still has a ton of questions to answer, and there’s no guarantee that he’s even an average starter in this league going forward. He really only played a quarter of a normal season’s worth of games. That’s not a big enough sample to say anything with certainty.

      But at the same time aren’t we in a position where we have to gamble on his upside? We know what we can be without him, and it’s not good enough. If he turns out to be a star then we have a chance to win a championship. That’s the type of gamble you have to take, especially when you’ve already shown you don’t care about paying the tax with other moves. I mean you could say the same kind of thing about novak: that the league seemed to figure him out and he slowed down once that happened and yet we gave him a 4 year deal. It’s just not consistent with their thinking in everything else they’ve done.

    10. daaarn

      As for the Lin thing, whatever happens, I’m still a Knicks fan, first and foremost. The thing is, it’s really hard to root for a team that’s essentially full of “strangers,” at least from an emotional standpoint. Call me naive, but I like being able to root for players we draft, or players that we acquire that are still young enough to have their “break out” in a Knicks jersey. Melo and Amare made their names elsewhere, so it’s still kinda weird seeing them in a Knicks jersey (this’ll hopefully change with time).

      Obviously, a title would assuage those feelings, but looking at the roster, I just can’t help but feel that most of the main players aren’t really “Knicks” yet. And that’s not to say Lin has “earned” that perception already, but it’s that potential that any young player could become the next Knicks “great” [I’m not saying he’ll approach that level, but I couldn’t think of another word] or what not. And with what’s going on currently, I’m already starting to hitch my wagon to the Shump train.

    11. flossy

      Z-man: Also, please take a good look at the Prigioni clips and tell me what Lin has proven he can do that Prigioni can’t

      Surely you’re joking? For one thing, Lin has already shown he can torch some of the best teams in the NBA, whereas Prigioni is 12 years his senior, never played a minute of NBA ball nor proven he is any better than the illustrious Sergio Rodriguez. For an owner who once committed a combined $60 million to Jared Jeffries and Jerome James to pass on someone whose NBA debut was miles better than any 10-game stretch Raymond Felton has had in his life is just absurd, to say nothing of his otherwordly off-the-court marketing value-add. If Jeremy Lin turns out to be nothing other than an average NBA point guard we’ll pay him $5m/year for 2 years and then he’ll at least be an expiring contract. Worse things have happened. And worse things could happen–such as a capped-out Raymond Felton-run wannabe “contender.”

    12. ABG

      What drives me the craziest is the eventual “24+1/private plane”-esque answer the Garden will give for why they didn’t re-sign Lin. I think at this point its clear he has a rift with management–he isn’t their type of guy and may be too smart to deal with their shit. This reeks of another example of the Garden’s boys club holding petty grudges and focusing on how they want everyone to just shutup and toe the line, as opposed to what’s best for the team.

    13. njasdjdh

      Felton is getting married this summer and hasn’t even been able to motivate himself enough to get in look good for the wedding shape. I mean…come on…really.

    14. Spree8nyk8

      And whatever % Lin has of being nothing more than average is probably pretty close to the % Lin has of being a star, with the bulk of the numbers lying somewhere above average but below star. It’s worth the gamble either way, but I’d match him and be ok with 2 out of the 3.

    15. SeeWhyDee77

      Everybody is freakin out over adding Felton..and rightfully so. We’d all rather have Lin back. But there’s 2 things we all need to understand:
      1- Lin’s numbers are based on such a small sample size..no one knows if he’ll sustain his momentum. Speaking of numbers..
      2- Woodson doesn’t give his PG’s the rock. We know Felton is gonna give us around 13 and 7 a night..which is right around what Lin is problee gonna end up putting up in Woody’s offense. That said, would u rather pay 3/10 for those numbers or 3/25? Lin’s much better with more freedom (even with the turnovers)..but unless he magically morphs into Nash or CP3- he’s not worth that last year. And if he’s putting up 13 and 7..who’s gonna wanna take his salary? Listen..he ended up with 14 and 6 last season..that’s not much different than 13 and 7. Right now i’m not sure who Lin is out there with Stat and Melo. If he could set them up ala Nash or CP3 and still get us around 13-15 ppg, then hell yes we match. But no one knows if he can do that..and I think that’s why Grunny went after Felton. Let’s be honest..Lin’s not gonna get many chances to score..and that’s his biggest asset. He’s skilled at runnin the PnR..not a staple of Woodson’s offense. And again..Woodson’s not gonna give him the freedom he had under D’Antoni to play his game so we can’t realistically expect a big improvement on 14 and 6. So..it’s understandable y the Rockets’ offer has given Grunny pause. I still say we should match tho because I believe in Lin’s work ethic..especially with Kidd showin him stuff.

    16. Kikuchiyo

      The Jeffries interview is depressing in two ways. First, JJ comes off as a smart, good guy who knows what he’s talking about. This team needs guys without enormous egos. We’ll miss him. Second, he seems pretty sure that Lin is gone. Instead of a Lin-led team, we get a basket of ill-fitting PG parts.

    17. Spree8nyk8

      You say Lin’s sample is too small to know if he’ll sustain but yet you are perfectly fine with predicting that he will regress to Felton? Hypocrite much? The fact that we don’t know what we have is a reason in itself to keep him, especially considering that the only numbers that you do have to measure him by are unbelievable. And as far as the 3/10 vs 3/25 that is moot as well because this isn’t saving us capspace it’s only saving the team a tax hit, which sorry but if you are committed at all to closing the gap and trying to win it’s not the time to bail out on prospects with tremendous upside. If you keep him and six months from now he’s not the guy then you trade him. He is most a potential all star and at the minimum he is a valuable asset.

    18. AlmostFanatic

      I can a agree with the idea that Lin has a LOT to prove in the coming seasons. Everybody knows that after the scouting report came out about him, teams began to attack his weaknesses. But I also think that there is a lot to be said for someone – not just Lin but anyone – to come off the end of the bench after D league stints, being waived twice, and then just being thrown in as a last resort to have the kind of showing he had…in a compressed season no less. And even when he slowed down, he was still quite productive. I think to show that kind of promise and an above average basketball IQ on top of having a full training camp and preseason to work on the flaws in is game he could be a worthy starter, and thats not including his off court marketability. Hes already shown that he can rework his jump shot (done between seasons one and two) and transition from a 2 gaurd to point (from college to the NBA). His learning curve seems to be above average and that is also considering that most of that learning happened on the fly in the actual NBA and not in prep schools and top colleges that feed strait in to the league(and often times a lot of those players still need a few league years to get it together) . As far as his injury, from what I’ve read that was actually a nagging injury that got worse. One that probably would have gotten handled a lot sooner had he been seen as a valuable asset before Feb. Who knows, maybe Houston will be a better fit. Maybe no matter who he signs with he bombs. Who knows? He made the best financial deal for himself once the Knicks decided not to make him an offer immediately. The Rockets seized the opportunity. Now the Knicks will either say F it and fold, or invest in potential. Granted that it is quite an investment. Either way, neither side really owes the other anything. At the end of the day this is still business after all. Hopefully that all made sense since I pretty much just rambled haha

    19. SeeWhyDee77

      (continued)
      If Lin improves then we have a nice trade chip or building block. We make the move for Felton, he’s also a nice trade chip. My hope is Lin improves and finds a way to better utilize Stat while feeding Melo enough to keep him happy. Thas alot to ask of him. Clearly Melo doesn’t have alot of faith in Lin judging by his Kidd comments. He might as well have said “Kidd means more shots for me!!” And this is a big part of why i’m sayin Lin’s problee gonna get 13 and 7. Melo doesn’t trust or respect Lin..AND Woodson won’t give him enough freedom to play his game. If we do match on Lin..he better study hard on Kidd and Nash because he will pretty much hafta be a double digit assist guy to make it work. We do have alot of weapons so it’s possible Lin can..but he’s more likely in that 13 and 7 range. Which is why I can understand Grunny’s thinking on Felton. But..given Dolan’s pockets, I really do think we should match on Lin even though he will be vastly overpaid in year 3. We’ve seen Lin take games over..lead us to victory with no other offensive threats out there..and drive up sales. So keeping him is a smart move even with Felton in the fold. U can always move Felton’s reasonable deal..especially if he’s playin well. Ponder this: we match on Lin..start him and Kidd til Shump comes back. Felton gets good minutes as the back up PG. Shump comes back and then can use Felton or Earl as trade bait to move a big deal (Stat?). Or maybe we match and S&T Lin with Earl for Kevin Martin’s expiring deal and Patterson or Morris..something that can help us move Stat’s deal..Grunny does have options to win now and build for the future..let’s see what he does in the coming days

    20. garfangle

      The problem is that w/o Howard, the Rockets will probably stink next year, so if Lin equals his numbers next year that he did as a starter with the Knicks (18/7+) no one will care when his team loses 95-104 night after night.

    21. SeeWhyDee77

      Spree8nyk8:
      You say Lin’s sample is too small to know if he’ll sustain but yet you are perfectly fine with predicting that he will regress to Felton?Hypocrite much?The fact that we don’t know what we have is a reason in itself to keep him, especially considering that the only numbers that you do have to measure him by are unbelievable.And as far as the 3/10 vs 3/25 that is moot as well because this isn’t saving us capspace it’s only saving the team a tax hit, which sorry but if you are committed at all to closing the gap and trying to win it’s not the time to bail out on prospects with tremendous upside.If you keep him and six months from now he’s not the guy then you trade him.He is most a potential all star and at the minimum he is a valuable asset.

      I get what your sayin..but I think ur missing my point. I’m sayin Lin finished at 14 and 6 last season. 13 and 7 is not a regression..more like a realistic projection in Woodson’s offense. And thanks for pointing out the 3/10 only saves us tax money cuz I didn’t realize that..so now this changes the game. No way we don’t match Lin in that case. Theoretically we should bring in extra money and win some more. And I know I problee did sound like a hypocrite..but i’m only tryina look at both sides

    22. garfangle

      I know if Dolan with match – check out MSG stock over the next two days. If it declines markedly over the next two days, he’ll sign Lin.

    23. AlmostFanatic

      SeeWhyDee77: And I know I problee did sound like a hypocrite..but i’m only tryina look at both sides

      Not hypocritical at all. Its generally smart to look at an issue from all angles, and consider opposing view points you may not have origionally :)

    24. Spree8nyk8

      SeeWhyDee77: I get what your sayin..but I think ur missing my point. I’m sayin Lin finished at 14 and 6 last season. 13 and 7 is not a regression..more like a realistic projection in Woodson’s offense. And thanks for pointing out the 3/10 only saves us tax money cuz I didn’t realize that..so now this changes the game. No way we don’t match Lin in that case. Theoretically we should bring in extra money and win some more. And I know I problee did sound like a hypocrite..but i’m only tryina look at both sides

      He was 19.6 and 8.3 per 36, but if you want to add the ten garbage time games he got to play in to drag his numbers down then by all means. But his 36’s were well above feltons if you want to be honest with yourself.

    25. Z

      Seriously, this contract still isn’t that bad and is tradable even if Lin never plays. The only reason it looks bad to Dolan is because he has to pay $25 mil in tax on it in year three. But he’s not paying it on Lin’s contract alone. he’s paying it on the $24,000,000 owed to both Amar’e and Melo that season. THOSE are the terrible contracts.

      Lin, even if he plays poorly, is guaranteed to be an All Star this year, giving him value. He’s certain to bring a diverse fanbase to whatever team he plays for, which gives him value. And then by year 3 he’s an expiring contract, which gives him value. A team under the tax threshold would love him at this price (including, but not limited to the Rockets).

      The only reason this contract is bad for the Knicks is because of typical wanton spending for players that lack value. Amar’e is one of the worst contracts in the league. So the answer: don’t pay a player that fans actually want to see play?

      This team deserves everything it gets in life: Charles Smith, 2-18, Bernard’s knee, Ewing’s finger roll, Reggie Miller, the ’97 suspensions, EVERYTHING.

    26. tastycakes

      I lost sleep over this shit. I’m so angry right now, it’s completely ridiculous.

      We find this guy in the trash heap, he comes in and gives us some of the most memorable basketball I’ve ever seen, provides a season-saving spark, and now we’re going to jettison him for Ray Felton????? TO SAVE MONEY????? Because he “plays good pick and roll basketball” with STAT? Because this somehow makes it easier to trade for Chris Paul??? Because the change in the offer sheet OFFENDED DOLAN????

      OK, gotta stop freaking out.

    27. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      SeeWhyDee77: I get what your sayin..but I think ur missing my point. I’m sayin Lin finished at 14 and 6 last season. 13 and 7 is not a regression..more like a realistic projection in Woodson’s offense. And thanks for pointing out the 3/10 only saves us tax money cuz I didn’t realize that..so now this changes the game. No way we don’t match Lin in that case. Theoretically we should bring in extra money and win some more. And I know I problee did sound like a hypocrite..but i’m only tryina look at both sides

      What does 13 and 7 mean? Or 14 and 6? Is that 40 mpg? Or 30 FGA per game? “Totals” are meaningless. Posts like these are half the reason that this board has gone to shit. Talk about efficiency or don’t talk at all.

    28. Z-man

      thenamestsam: I mean you could say the same kind of thing about novak: that the league seemed to figure him out and he slowed down once that happened and yet we gave him a 4 year deal. It’s just not consistent with their thinking in everything else they’ve done.

      There is absolutely no comparison here. Novak’s deal is way, way more reasonable than Lin’s is. Also, Novak was the best 3-point shooter in the league, and has been among the top whenever he has had a chance to play. He is getting paid based on a much more realistic appraisal of what he is and could be, whereas Lin has both more upside and downside. We know what we are getting at worst with Novak, we really have no idea with Lin.

    29. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Z:
      Seriously, this contract still isn’t that bad and is tradable even if Lin never plays. The only reason it looks bad to Dolan is because he has to pay $25 mil in tax on it in year three. But he’s not paying it on Lin’s contract alone. he’s paying it on the $24,000,000 owed to both Amar’e and Melo that season. THOSE are the terrible contracts.

      This is an excellent point that I began making a few days ago and thought it not worth my time to hear ruruland lecture me about how beautiful Carmelo Anthony’s body is and how it’s worth every penny of the $22M he’ll be making then..

    30. Z-man

      Z: Lin, even if he plays poorly, is guaranteed to be an All Star this year, giving him value.

      What?! In which universe is this true?

    31. Spree8nyk8

      Thank you knicks franchise for doing this on the weekend when I need to sleep between shifts. Much appreciated.

    32. Gideon Zaga

      YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG PEOPLE! this is not about luxury tax or monetary issues. This is Personal. Lin used his leverage of knowing that the Knicks will match any offer to renegotiate the deal with Houston. Someone probably Dolan feels crossed. One thing about Dolan is that he seems loyal. Heck he’s still loyal to Isiah after all that happened. I don’t blame Lin, gotta give it to the kid, I didn’t think he had it in him but hey it’s a cut throat business. But make no mistake this is personal. Feelings are getting in the way. I’m sure cooler heads will prevail but this is clearly a message to Lin. He better not get too comfortable. I’m still on the fence with this but I want him back either way.

    33. Z-man

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: This is an excellent point that I began making a few days ago and thought it not worth my time to hear ruruland lecture me about how beautiful Carmelo Anthony’s body is and how it’s worth every penny of the $22M he’ll be making then..

      True, but Melo and Amare are done deals, so what good does the hand-wringing do at this point. The reality is that if Lin is not matched, Dolan possibly saves between $62.5-72.5 million over the next 3 years ($25M in salary plus $37.5-47.5 in luxury tax.) That’s what is riding on this signing. And someone made the point in the last thred that expiring contracts are not worth as much as people think. Case in point, what did we get for Fat Eddy’s and Steph’s expirings? What would we have gotten this year for Fields if he had a $15 million expiring?

      THCJ, even as a Berri guy, how would you address the point I made in @9?

    34. Gideon Zaga

      In Asia most definitely and I heard they have a lot of people and are tech savvy too.

      Z-man: What?! In which universe is this true?

    35. Z-man

      Gideon Zaga: YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG PEOPLE! this is not about luxury tax or monetary issues. This is Personal. Lin used his leverage of knowing that the Knicks will match any offer to renegotiate the deal with Houston. Someone probably Dolan feels crossed. One thing about Dolan is that he seems loyal. Heck he’s still loyal to Isiah after all that happened. I don’t blame Lin, gotta give it to the kid, I didn’t think he had it in him but hey it’s a cut throat business. But make no mistake this is personal. Feelings are getting in the way. I’m sure cooler heads will prevail but this is clearly a message to Lin. He better not get too comfortable. I’m still on the fence with this but I want him back either way.

      Really?! then why wasn’t it personal when Melo went back and forth between saying he wouldn’t sign with anyone but the Knicks, then was ready to take a max deal from the Nets? There may be a personal element to it, but if Lin were Steve Nash, he’s be matched in a second. If there is any personal part to it, it’s “who does this kid think he is to cost me $70 million after 25 games as a starter, after being shut down by Mario Chalmers, torched by Calderon, murdered by Deron Williams, missing the stretch run and the playoffs, and shooting 40% from the field and 32% from 3 in his last 12 games during our stretch run?

    36. Z

      Z-man: expiring contracts are not worth as much as people think. Case in point, what did we get for Fat Eddy’s?

      Carmelo Anthony! (though I’m not sure if that refutes your point or proves it:)

    37. Z-man

      If he plays poorly after 25 games, he will most likely not be an all-star and might not be on the ballot, and even if he is, he would become a laughing stock and a punching bag for opposing PGs. In fact, he would be benched by Woodson, who is not going to tolerate poor play from his starting PG when there are other options.

    38. SeeWhyDee77

      Spree8nyk8: He was 19.6 and 8.3 per 36, but if you want to add the ten garbage time games he got to play in to drag his numbers down then by all means.But his 36?s were well above feltons if you want to be honest with yourself.

      True. Felton had a BAD season last year. But lookin at tha on court stuff..we know Felton’s gonna get us 13 and 7 since those r roughly his career numbers. And i’m jus not sure Woody will give Lin the ball enough to match his starter’s numbers because he’s so unproven. So..13 and 7 is problee a good projection in Woodson’s offense even though I think Woodson should give him the ball and Melo should trust him more. Just like Melo says Kidd can make the game easier for him..I believe Lin can. He’s heady and he works hard. The problem isn’t Lin in my projection. It’s Woodson’s reluctance to let his PG’s play and Melo’s lack of trust in Lin. So Lin’s “regression” has nothing to do with his ability. I think Lin is mad nice..definitely in the second tier of PG’s in the league. Think Ty Lawson/Tony Parker level. Maybe Parker seems a little high but I consider CP3/Nash/Williams/Rose/Westbrook/Rondo the elite. With guys like Lawson and Parker being a level beneath..just like Lawson and Parker should be all stars but CP3/Nash/Westbrook are in their way..same goes for Lin with Rose/Rondo/Williams ahead of him.

    39. Z-man

      I’m shocked that not a single person here wants to admit how dead wrong they were about Fields after his first 2 months, and how wrong they therefore could be about Lin. Look, I’s match if I were the owner, but to act like it’s a no-brainer or that the future of the franchise depends on it is just as silly as it would have been to say that about Fields.

    40. AlmostFanatic

      Z-man, I actualy just laughed out loud about the Chalmers comment. I was just thinking about how Lin faired against other point gaurds in the league. And I thought ok he got his ass handed to him by Rondo(which honetly should have happened – I think Rondo is the best point gaurd in the league) but Chalmers!?!?! Chalmers?!?! Chalmers went in to that game with a lot of brovado, as he should have seeing as he had Lebron, DWade, Bosh and Haslem, you had better go in to a game with your chest pushed out when you are with a crew like that. But at the end of the day he’s still Chalmers. NOBODY should be getting handled like that by Chalmers. I still think the Knicks should match the Houston offer, but that Heat game and how Chalmers dog walked him did pop in to my head as well. I felt bad for Lin watching that.

    41. Gideon Zaga

      I think Dolan’s mindset is we gave this kid this opportunity and he turns around and fucks with me in contract negotiations. In other news Carmelo Anthony is his own worst enemy. Dude is not self aware at all. Where’s Nick Ruland when you need him.

      Z-man: Really?! then why wasn’t it personal when Melo went back and forth between saying he wouldn’t sign with anyone but the Knicks, then was ready to take a max deal from the Nets? There may be a personal element to it, but if Lin were Steve Nash, he’s be matched in a second.If there is any personal part to it, it’s “who does this kid think he is to cost me $70 million after 25 games as a starter, after being shut down by Mario Chalmers, torched by Calderon, murdered by Deron Williams, missing the stretch run and the playoffs, and shooting 40% from the field and 32% from 3 in his last 12 games during our stretch run?

    42. AlmostFanatic

      SWD777, VERY VERY true on the Melo point. Melo pretty much admitted to sabotaging plays b/c he wasn’t “comfortable” I’m not sure how anyone is supposed tho thrive when half the team is listening to the coach and trying to run the plays being called and the other half is following one player and deciding that since things aren’t going their way they aren’t gonna play right. On a slightly related note that is very much like Bynum and Howard. When they feel like playing, the crush people, but when their feelings get hurt for some bs reason they decide “I don’t wanna play this game any more!” My 3 year old niece exhibits more maturity

    43. jon abbey

      Melo kind of obviously was never totally on board with the Lin phenomenon, pretty sure we’ll all forgive him when he reels in Chris Paul down the road.

    44. SeeWhyDee77

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: What does 13 and 7 mean? Or 14 and 6? Is that 40 mpg? Or 30 FGA per game? “Totals” are meaningless. Posts like these are half the reason that this board has gone to shit. Talk about efficiency or don’t talk at all.

      U know what? I kinda have a half understanding in the efficiency thing and and advances stats so thas y I look at the totals. But from what I know..based on efficiency ratings Lin IS the much better player. I never said he wasn’t. Look closely at how Woodson historically uses his PG’s. I believe that Woodson will fully install his iso offense this offseason and that will limit Lin’s effectiveness because his game shines when he has more freedom. Maybe he can put up 13 and 7 and keep the same efficiency. Maybe he loses some rhythm inside the new offense and it throws him off enough to hurt his efficiency. I don’t know…but I’m leaning to the latter because of how Woodson uses his PG’s. If Woodson insists on alloving Melo to play hero ball..then Lin’s numbers..advanced or otherwise..won’t really matter I think.

    45. jon abbey

      people citing Lin’s numbers need to remember they were under D’Antoni, and factor that in.

    46. Gideon Zaga

      Will not trust these reporters. Remember words spoken are different when written. Plus he’s right it’s a poison pill. Maybe he shouldn’t have said it but he’s right. It’s ridiculous.

      jon abbey:
      Melo kind of obviously was never totally on board with the Lin phenomenon, pretty sure we’ll all forgive him when he reels in Chris Paul down the road.

    47. jon abbey

      hehe, Kidd arrested for DWI today. go New York, go New York, go!

      at least this will clear the bandwagon of some of the temporary fans.

    48. Degree_Absolute

      Inarguably, it would be a huge mistake to let Lin go both from a public relations perspective and from a business perspective. He is perhaps the most popular NY athlete right now and the most globally marketable. Ownership and management will be (further) brutalized in the media and Dolan is notoriously thin-skinned. Lin may cost you a ton in terms of luxury tax ($62.5 million?) but that is over 3 years and a lot can happen in 3 years. For his notoriety alone, his contract will be tradeable. However, on Wednesday, if Lin is officially a Rocket and MSG share prices dip say 5% on the news that is over $100 million right there. Would you rather pay $100 million on Wednesday when share prices will likely drop (and get shat on in the media) or (maybe- Lin could be traded easily in next 2 years) pay $62.5 million over three years which you will be able to recoup easily through marketing Lin while having the media fawn over the great Knicks off-season? Easy choice. For Dolan though it never is.

    49. jon abbey

      people don’t seem to understand how stock prices work. if a stock price moves, no one makes or loses money unless they’re actually selling that stock.

    50. Z-man

      Not to mention that when the Knicks make money on Lin, that money gets shared with the rest of the league, right? However, the league doesn’t help Dolan pay Lin’s salary or the tax.

    51. Z

      jon abbey:
      people don’t seem to understand how stock prices work. if a stock price moves, no one makes or loses money unless they’re actually selling that stock.

      Sell, sell, sell!

    52. SeeWhyDee77

      jon abbey:
      people citing Lin’s numbers need to remember they were under D’Antoni, and factor that in.

      Thank you lol. And if there’s any truth to the rumors of Lin “taking advantage of the CBA” to renegotiate the offer sheet then it shows he didn’t wanna be a Knick. U can probably say that he was using his smarts to get his money..which is also true. But he would have gotten a 4 year deal if that contract wasn’t changed and another 4 mil total. Sheesh..this is givin me a headache. I do know this much..in Woodson’s offense I am just as comfortable with Felton as I am with Lin. Lin is better runnin the PnR so we will miss that if he goes. I just hope we match an trade now. I guess the tax dollars don’t really matter as much becuz when u win u make more money so u have to spend money to get to that point..but thas alotta dough. If we match and the plan is to swing a trade for CP3 in the future..do we really think Woodson is gonna give Lin the ball enough to make the Clips want him in a deal for CP3? Headache..I trust Grunny rite now, but to think of what could possibly happen roster wise with no real sense of what he’s thinkin is a headache. In any case..i’m good with Felton, Kidd, and Prigs if thas how we go into the season. The more I think about it however, Grunny should match and swing a S&T for Martin and Patterson/Morris for Lin and Smith.

    53. Degree_Absolute

      jon abbey:
      people don’t seem to understand how stock prices work. if a stock price moves, no one makes or loses money unless they’re actually selling that stock.

      Do you think Dolan wants to lose $100 million even if it is unrealized?

    54. flossy

      Z-man: I’m shocked that not a single person here wants to admit how dead wrong they were about Fields after his first 2 months, and how wrong they therefore could be about Lin.

      You seriously think peak Landry Fields was in the same stratosphere as peak Jeremy Lin?

    55. formido

      Stock prices are the investors’ estimate of the net present value of the business. If share prices rise 600 million it’s because a bunch of investors expect MSG to make more actual dollar profits in the future.

      jon abbey: people don’t seem to understand how stock prices work.

    56. SeeWhyDee77

      Even tho I think it’s a steep price to pay..I can see us matching and utilizing a starting backcourt of Lin/Kidd wile sliding Smith to the 3 spot mainly once Shump gets back and using Novak primarily as a stretch 4..or trading Smith- which won’t save us money but it puts ALOT of points on the board. A starting backcourt of Lin an Kidd would make our starting 5 better and create increased opportunities for our “Big 3″ to succeed together as Kidd’s presence as a spot up shooter/facilitator frees up Lin, Stat , Melo and Chandler to get to their spots more. UGH!!! headache comin back…

    57. The Infamous Cdiggy

      Z-man:
      I’m shocked that not a single person here wants to admit how dead wrong they were about Fields after his first 2 months, and how wrong they therefore could be about Lin.Look, I’s match if I were the owner, but to act like it’s a no-brainer or that the future of the franchise depends on it is just as silly as it would have been to say that about Fields.

      I like Lin a lot, but I have to cosign on this.

      Z-man: Really?! then why wasn’t it personal when Melo went back and forth between saying he wouldn’t sign with anyone but the Knicks, then was ready to take a max deal from the Nets? There may be a personal element to it, but if Lin were Steve Nash, he’s be matched in a second.If there is any personal part to it, it’s “who does this kid think he is to cost me $70 million after 25 games as a starter, after being shut down by Mario Chalmers, torched by Calderon, murdered by Deron Williams, missing the stretch run and the playoffs, and shooting 40% from the field and 32% from 3 in his last 12 games during our stretch run?

      This is very fair also. I’ve always said that I look at Lin as essentially a lottery pick, and that $70 million is a LOT of money to invest in a lottery pick that’s only put up numbers in, what, one-third(ish) of a regular NBA season?

      And what are these whispers/etc that the Knicks can still make a play for Chris Paul? How the hell could they even afford him at this point?

    58. Z

      flossy: You seriously think peak Landry Fields was in the same stratosphere as peak Jeremy Lin?

      And what makes the initial comment even stranger is that Fields is getting paid almost as much as Lin over the next three years! So it really puts Lin’s relative value on display.

    59. jon abbey

      The Infamous Cdiggy:

      And what are these whispers/etc that the Knicks can still make a play for Chris Paul? How the hell could they even afford him at this point?

      if he wants to come here badly enough, they could theoretically pay him the veteran’s minimum. the current rumors are based on this, from a few days ago:

      Jared Zwerling ?@JaredZwerling

      Melo & Chris Paul walked through media room here in Vegas & Melo said, referring to CP3, “You’ll see him in NY in a couple years.”(smiling).

      https://twitter.com/JaredZwerling/statuses/223176193749426177?tw_i=223176193749426177&tw_e=details&tw_p=tweetembed

    60. yellowboy90

      jon abbey: if he wants to come here badly enough, they could theoretically pay him the veteran’s minimum. the current rumors are based on this, from a few days ago:

      Jared Zwerling ?@JaredZwerling

      Melo & Chris Paul walked through media room here in Vegas & Melo said, referring to CP3, “You’ll see him in NY in a couple years.”(smiling).

      https://twitter.com/JaredZwerling/statuses/223176193749426177?tw_i=223176193749426177&tw_e=details&tw_p=tweetembed

      One way is for Paul to not pull a Howard and not opt in or become a FA.

    61. jon abbey

      right, Paul will be a FA after this season almost no matter what, but the point is that NY won’t have any room to sign him apart from maybe one of the midcap exemptions? (someone can clarify this for me, thanks)

    62. jon abbey

      here’s the thing people need to understand if they don’t already: this is Melo’s team and has been since they traded for him.

      I think it’s pretty reasonable to be less than thrilled about that, but that’s the way it is, so save yourself some heartache if you can’t deal with that and stop rooting for the Knicks for the next few years (at least).

    63. nicos

      Those of you saying Lin’s play really fell off after the initial “Linsanity” period should note that his TS% was actually higher during those last 7 “Woodsanity” games he played than it was in those first 7 games- .579 Linsanity, .590 Woodsanity. His scoring and assist numbers (and minutes played) dropped but he still played pretty well during that stretch. I certainly hope they re-sign him but I’m definitely not going to stop following the Knicks if they don’t.

    64. yellowboy90

      jon abbey: t

      You are right but As we see Gruny makes a way. Who the heck saw this offseason’s events and getting Kidd, Felton, and Camby on top of being able to resign everyone. (Being able is the key phrase) lol.

    65. Z

      The goons at MSG seem to have gotten to Hahn. He’s gone from saying he’d be “shocked” if the Knicks don’t match 12 hours ago, to asking “who doesn’t think that contract is ridiculous?”. (This from a guy who wrote a lengthy article two days ago saying the poison pill wasn’t even poisonous and that it Lin even at $15 mil would be very tradable).

    66. Z

      jon abbey:
      here’s the thing people need to understand if they don’t already: this is Melo’s team and has been since they traded for him.

      I think it’s pretty reasonable to be less than thrilled about that, but that’s the way it is, so save yourself some heartache if you can’t deal with that and stop rooting for the Knicks for the next few years (at least).

      A growing part of me hopes the Knicks do in fact let Lin go, so that I can be liberated from this flawed sport, corrupt league, and pitiful ownership forever.

    67. DRed

      Z:
      The goons at MSG seem to have gotten to Hahn. He’s gone from saying he’d be “shocked” if the Knicks don’t match 12 hours ago, to asking “who doesn’t think that contract is ridiculous?”. (This from a guy who wrote a lengthy article two days ago saying the poison pill wasn’t even poisonous and that it Lin even at $15 mil would be very tradable).

      The NY media lack of outrage is certainly very interesting, because replacing Lin with fat Ray Felton is such an indefensibly stupid basketball move. It’s almost as dumb as thinking it’s all part of our master plan to get Chris Paul

    68. tastycakes

      Rod Boone @rodboone

      Melo on #Knicks Lin saga: “It’s not up to me. It’s up to the organization to say that they want to match that ridiculous contract.”

      More Melo on Lin: “I’d love to see him back, but I think he has to do what’s best for him right now.”

      I asked Melo if #Knicks would be OK at PG with J-Kidd & Felton: “I mean, what other point guards are we going to get at this point?”

    69. tastycakes

      To be fair, it IS a ridiculous contract.

      It’s just that we’ve never seen ridiculous contracts stop the Knicks from doing anything.

    70. er

      Lol it is really rediculous…good for Lin tho make ya money. But this melo stuff gotta stop, people hang on every word he says so they can pick it apart….he doesnt have the greatest media skills so what? He’s paid to play bball

      tastycakes:
      To be fair, it IS a ridiculous contract.

      It’s just that we’ve never seen ridiculous contracts stop the Knicks from doing anything.

    71. arthurprescott2

      tastycakes:
      To be fair, it IS a ridiculous contract.

      It’s just that we’ve never seen ridiculous contracts stop the Knicks from doing anything.

      Right. Fiscal responsibility at this point?
      Oh well. Good luck to Lin in Houston. Maybe he’ll develop better when out of the media scrutiny. It was always Melo’s team anyway. Let’s go Knicks!

    72. Count de Pennies

      Meh.

      I’ve always been agnostic on Lin – neither true believer or full-on skeptic. During the height of Linsanity, I had more than a few arguments in which I advanced the then unpopular position that what Lin was doing was not sustainable. I figured his uppermost ceiling was somewhere outside the Top-10 PGs (CP3, DWill, Westbrook, Rondo, Rose, Nash, Parker, Lawson, Irving, Rubio)

      Best case, I thought he might level out somewhere in that next tier which includes the likes of Conley, Lowry, Wall, and Curry. But it was hardly a certainty that he would even attain that level, long term.

      Linsanity aside, Lin’s value to the Knicks was artificially inflated by the fact that his understudies last season were so epically awful. The atrocious play of Baron, Bibby, and Douglas after Lin was lost only made his absence that much more acutely felt.

      If Grunwald had to base his estimation of Lin’s worth on how he stacked up relative to his 2011-2012 replacements, the the kid would be worth every penny of the Rockets offer and more. But seeing as how the Knicks have (presumably) upgraded their talent at PG for the upcoming year, GG now has the luxury of basing his calculus on how Lin ranks relative to his counterparts around the league. And, as I noted earlier, best case scenario would be somewhere around 11-15 – and quite possibly a few notches below that.

      In other words, we’re talking about a PG who likely ranks squarely in the middle of the pack, barring some unforeseen miracle. When looked at in that rather harsh light, the decision to not go over the luxury tax to retain him starts to make a good deal more sense.

      But as I’ve said, I’m agnostic on the subject. If Grunwald ultimately decides that Lin is worth the Houston offer and opts to match, I won’t quibble either. I guess I just don’t see the point in getting all hot and bothered over a player who I regard as around league average at his position.

    73. jon abbey

      exactly, Count, very well said.

      as for ‘fiscal responsibility’, it’s a new CBA and the luxury tax penalties are much harsher, so it’s silly to compare to deals like Jerome James etc.

    74. bob cook

      Granted, Dolan’s intelligence is on par with a sea slug but we can discern some habits in its behavior.
      (A) He’s star struck. He’ll pay for bad stars and or good stars.
      (B) Even his dim little brain wants to win. He’s made so many bad moves that desperation must be setting in.
      (C) The money he can make from Lin’s stardom among the world wide Asian community will nicely counteract the luxury tax.
      So…he will match or even Sea Slugs will not hang out with him.

    75. JK47

      STOP SAYING FELTON WILL GIVE US 13 AND 7. It’s driving me insane.

      Yeah, he’ll give us 13 points on 6-20 shooting every night. AWESOME. Ray Felton sucks ass. Period.

    76. KnickFanInCelticLand

      The Infamous Cdiggy:

      Z-man: Really?! then why wasn’t it personal when Melo went back and forth between saying he wouldn’t sign with anyone but the Knicks, then was ready to take a max deal from the Nets? There may be a personal element to it, but if Lin were Steve Nash, he’s be matched in a second.If there is any personal part to it, it’s “who does this kid think he is to cost me $70 million after 25 games as a starter, after being shut down by Mario Chalmers, torched by Calderon, murdered by Deron Williams, missing the stretch run and the playoffs, and shooting 40% from the field and 32% from 3 in his last 12 games during our stretch run?

      This is very fair also. I’ve always said that I look at Lin as essentially a lottery pick, and that $70 million is a LOT of money to invest in a lottery pick that’s only put up numbers in, what, one-third(ish) of a regular NBA season?

      First of all, any luxury tax should not be blamed on the last contract to sign. It should be amortized over the whole roster for EVERY contract is to blame for going over the luxury threshold.

      Secondly, Lin’s production tail-off likely had more to do with his chronic meniscus injury than defenses figuring him out. The “can’t go to his left” defense was common knowledge early in Linsanity but that did not stop him. I seem to remember the Knicks kicking good teams butts in the early Woodson days.

      To those people worried about his knee. Then be VERY worried about Shump because ACL repairs have higher morbidity rates than meniscus surgery.

      The head to head argument is skewed because of the sample size with Chalmers. With Deron it is 2 games but Lin torched Deron in the other game. By the same right, I could claim to be the worlds best runner because I have beaten Blly Rodgers, Nourdine Morcelli & Joseph Nzau(midddle distance world record holders). I’m good…

    77. Z

      jon abbey:

      as for ‘fiscal responsibility’, it’s a new CBA and the luxury tax penalties are much harsher, so it’s silly to compare to deals like Jerome James etc.

      The new CBA requires contracts to be shorter. It’s more favorable to owners.

      Besides, the aggregate tax on Lin + Melo + Amer’e in 2015 is still less than the $40,000,000 Dolan paid in tax for just 23 wins in 2006. (and of the three, Lin at $15 mil will probably be e best contract of the three considering it’s $10,000,000 less and he won’t be over the hill).

    78. 2FOR18

      jon abbey:
      people don’t seem to understand how stock prices work. if a stock price moves, no one makes or loses money unless they’re actually selling that stock.

      LOL, thanks for posting that. Every time someone posts about how much money Dolan made on Lin “today” I laugh.

    79. MeloDrama

      It’s obviously personal, and a call by James Dolan. That we could get nothing for Lin is just insane.

    80. er

      Lin supposedly went behind the Knicks back to rework the dealto make it more of a cap hit in year three so yes it can be blamed on lin

    81. JK47

      Without Lin, this team is just impossible to root for, and I will jump ship. The next three seasons will be a miserable black hole of mediocrity. The team will have NO chance to improve from its current position of low playoff seed, first round exit. They might squeeze out one year of 45+ win ball, but by year two they will be worse and by year three they will be dreadful. And they’ve traded away every draft pick you can possibly trade away to assemble this awesome juggernaut.

      The #1 reason for hope, the #1 reason to root for this team, is gone. Letting him walk and getting nothing in return is utterly indefensible. I’ve lived in Los Angeles since 1998 and we have two far better basketball teams right here in this city. I don’t need this crap anymore. I’ve suffered enough abuse from this idiotic team. This is the last straw. The Knicks are a lost cause.

    82. arthurprescott2

      Z: Because Melo woke Dolan up the fact that there IS such thing as throwing money away.

      Z: Because Melo woke Dolan up the fact that there IS such thing as throwing money away.

      Stephen A. is saying he talked to players and some in the locker room had turned against Lin… I’m guessing that means Melo.

    83. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Z-man:
      Continuing, recall that we (me included) were convinced that Fields was the next John Havlicek after he won NBA Rookie of the Month twice in a row. Be honest with yourselves: how many of you would have “jumped ship” if he was packaged in the Melo deal instead of Felton? And then reality set in and Landry was exposed for what he was…a solid second round pick with serious limitations and nothing more. Now imagine Fields making fucking $15 million next year, plus costing between $37 and $47 in ADDITIONAL luxury tax.

      Anybody who jumps ship over this deal is just plain silly. The Knicks will be a very exciting team to watch for the next 3 years, with or without Lin.

      I’m not sure what you’re asking me.

    84. 2FOR18

      jon abbey:
      here’s the thing people need to understand if they don’t already: this is Melo’s team and has been since they traded for him.

      I think it’s pretty reasonable to be less than thrilled about that, but that’s the way it is, so save yourself some heartache if you can’t deal with that and stop rooting for the Knicks for the next few years (at least).

      Yup.

    85. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      JK47:
      Without Lin, this team is just impossible to root for, and I will jump ship.The next three seasons will be a miserable black hole of mediocrity.The team will have NO chance to improve from its current position of low playoff seed, first round exit.They might squeeze out one year of 45+ win ball, but by year two they will be worse and by year three they will be dreadful.And they’ve traded away every draft pick you can possibly trade away to assemble this awesome juggernaut.

      The #1 reason for hope, the #1 reason to root for this team, is gone.Letting him walk and getting nothing in return is utterly indefensible.I’ve lived in Los Angeles since 1998 and we have two far better basketball teams right here in this city.I don’t need this crap anymore.I’ve suffered enough abuse from this idiotic team.This is the last straw.The Knicks are a lost cause.

      League Pass calls my name… it says, “Monsieur Jowles, the Spurs and Nuggets are here for you. They love you unconditionally, Jowles. Dolan only wants to hurt you.”

    86. Bruno Almeida

      Oh great, here comes the fucking Chris Paul stories all over again… “just wait until next year when we get CP3 blah blah”… I’m absolutely tired of it, I’d rather have Ray fatty Felton as the starting PG for the next 3 years and become the NY Hawks then go over all the “wait for a superstar free agent to fall on our laps” crap again.

      Felton sucks and with him we are definitely the new Hawks, if you ask me. Our only shot at contending was hoping Lin would become a superstar and the core would gel around him, but that seems pretty much dead right now… Ill still watch and love the team no matter what, but I’m pretty sure in 5 years time I’ll still be hoping for a time when the knicks are true contenders.

      Again, I hope I’m wrong, but just thinking of those 20 footers Felton loves makes me want to vomit.

    87. DRed

      arthurprescott2:
      Stephen A. is saying he talked to players and some in the locker room had turned against Lin… I’m guessing that means Melo.

      And just when you think this story couldn’t get any fucking dumber.

    88. Z

      JK47:
      Without Lin, this team is just impossible to root for, and I will jump ship.The next three seasons will be a miserable black hole of mediocrity.The team will have NO chance to improve from its current position of low playoff seed, first round exit.They might squeeze out one year of 45+ win ball, but by year two they will be worse and by year three they will be dreadful.And they’ve traded away every draft pick you can possibly trade away to assemble this awesome juggernaut.

      The #1 reason for hope, the #1 reason to root for this team, is gone.Letting him walk and getting nothing in return is utterly indefensible.I’ve lived in Los Angeles since 1998 and we have two far better basketball teams right here in this city.I don’t need this crap anymore.I’ve suffered enough abuse from this idiotic team.This is the last straw.The Knicks are a lost cause.

      +1 (and I mean +1 on everything. I also moved to LA in 1998. Care to catch a Clipper game next season?:)

    89. Gideon Zaga

      WOW! Hahn just went in on Lin on Espn New York Radio. I thought he was Pro Lin. He said he believes Lin’s ceiling is a back up pg. He also talks about Lin’s attitude and feeling like he’s entitled. I just couldn’t believe how we’re treating this guy. It’s almost like Tebow. One point that Hahn made that got me thinking though, he said the Knicks are in win now mode and are condensers but to be true contenders we can’t have a 23 year old pg with only 23 games under his belt. This whole issue is just becoming too much of a mess. Tuesday can’t come quickly enough. Lin’s actions as a shrewd operator cost him. Like Landry he doesn’t deserve that 15 mil in yr three but that doesn’t mean he’s not good. He’s clutch, gets to the line in crunch time and rallies the whole team around him. I still think we match even if for nothing but trade purposes.

    90. DRed

      JK47:
      Without Lin, this team is just impossible to root for, and I will jump ship.The next three seasons will be a miserable black hole of mediocrity.The team will have NO chance to improve from its current position of low playoff seed, first round exit.They might squeeze out one year of 45+ win ball, but by year two they will be worse and by year three they will be dreadful.And they’ve traded away every draft pick you can possibly trade away to assemble this awesome juggernaut.

      The #1 reason for hope, the #1 reason to root for this team, is gone.Letting him walk and getting nothing in return is utterly indefensible.I’ve lived in Los Angeles since 1998 and we have two far better basketball teams right here in this city.I don’t need this crap anymore.I’ve suffered enough abuse from this idiotic team.This is the last straw.The Knicks are a lost cause.

      Yeah, but some idiot on the radio says that Lin lost the locker room and Lin might never be a top tier clutch champion point guard (FACT: He’s never even won a playoff game), so you can see how it makes perfect sense to replace him with a fat chucker who only ever played well for the coach that we fired last year because his style didn’t fit our players.

    91. JK47

      Z: +1 (and I mean +1 on everything. I also moved to LA in 1998. Care to catch a Clipper game next season?:)

      Ha. I think I’m going Lakers. The Clippers have a little too much Knick in them. I’ve learned my lesson. I’m not gonna go from James Dolan to Donald Sterling.

    92. Gideon Zaga

      The Knicks define logic. Lin is worth 30 mil off the court. At least we know Dolan is thinking championship instead of cash. But they owe to the guy to show what he’s learned in the offseason.

    93. arthurprescott2

      NY media turning on Lin in a split-second… feel bad for the kid. He didn’t do anything wrong. So NYK taking Felton. That’s fine. Whatever. Why does Lin have to get blasted for this?

    94. JK47

      Gideon Zaga:
      The Knicks define logic. Lin is worth 30 mil off the court. At least we know Dolan is thinking championship instead of cash. But they owe to the guy to show what he’s learned in the offseason.

      The Knicks “define” logic? No, I think you mean that they “defy” logic. They “define” asshattery.

    95. 2FOR18

      er:
      melo supposedly went behind the Knicks back to work out a max deal with the Nets so yes it can be blamed on melo

      FIFY

    96. Gideon Zaga

      Trust me I root for Arsenal FC, the Knicks of football and my year in sports is just full of I dunno what word qualifies for their helter skelter nature. Its just baffling.

      JK47: Ha.I think I’m going Lakers.The Clippers have a little too much Knick in them.I’ve learned my lesson.I’m not gonna go from James Dolan to Donald Sterling.

    97. 2FOR18

      Gideon Zaga:
      WOW! Hahn just went in on Lin on Espn New York Radio. I thought he was Pro Lin. He said he believes Lin’s ceiling is a back up pg. He also talks about Lin’s attitude and feeling like he’s entitled. I just couldn’t believe how we’re treating this guy. It’s almost like Tebow. One point that Hahn made that got me thinking though, he said the Knicks are in win now mode and are condensers but to be true contenders we can’t have a 23 year old pg with only 23 games under his belt. This whole issue is just becoming too much of a mess. Tuesday can’t come quickly enough. Lin’s actions as a shrewd operator cost him. Like Landry he doesn’t deserve that 15 mil in yr three but that doesn’t mean he’s not good. He’s clutch, gets to the line in crunch time and rallies the whole team around him. I still think we match even if for nothing but trade purposes.

      They got to hahn

    98. KnicksFanInVA

      This might be a stupid question, but would things be different if we had LOST the Bird Rights case? Would we be better off if we had used the MLE on Lin?

    99. Gideon Zaga

      Thanks for catching the error, the emotion high is crazy haha

      JK47: The Knicks “define” logic?No, I think you mean that they “defy” logic.They “define” asshattery.

    100. BigBlueAL

      I know it doesnt mean much to the people who visit this site (and rightfully so) but the reaction to Lin possibly leaving in the NY media and with what seems like the majority of Knick fans (at least non-Knickerblogger Knick fans lol) is not that big a deal. I say this because many here talk about how this will turn Knick fans into Net fans and stuff and thats just not the case at all.

      Not saying its right or wrong just saying dont talk like this move will really piss off the majority of Knick fans because it wont and it certainly wont hurt the team attendance wise.

    101. JK47

      @117

      You’re probably right. People have stuck with this shit sandwich of a franchise through a lot worse than this.

    102. DRed

      formido:
      In cases anyone was under the misimpression that Felton can be a serviceable replacement:

      http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/47791/felton-over-lin-are-the-knicks-lin-sane

      This doesn’t say anything about locker room chemistry, though. It doesn’t point out that Lin felt entitled. You only get to be entitled after you get a max deal. Then you can get your coach fired, admit you weren’t playing hard, and then run your mouth about how it’s your time for a championship.

    103. Z

      BigBlueAL:
      I know it doesnt mean much to the people who visit this site (and rightfully so) but the reaction to Lin possibly leaving in the NY media and with what seems like the majority of Knick fans (at least non-Knickerblogger Knick fans lol) is not that big a deal.I say this because many here talk about how this will turn Knick fans into Net fans and stuff and thats just not the case at all.

      Not saying its right or wrong just saying dont talk like this move will really piss off the majority of Knick fans because it wont and it certainly wont hurt the team attendance wise.

      I thinkthe majority of people who follow the likes of Hahn on twitter

    104. yellowboy90

      I blame STAT. He saw the stats and knows how Felton likes to dish to the roller more than Lin does and he orchestrated getting Felton back. He said Lin only played with Tyson. LOL.

    105. Z

      BigBlueAL:
      I know it doesnt mean much to the people who visit this site (and rightfully so) but the reaction to Lin possibly leaving in the NY media and with what seems like the majority of Knick fans (at least non-Knickerblogger Knick fans lol) is not that big a deal.I say this because many here talk about how this will turn Knick fans into Net fans and stuff and thats just not the case at all.

      Not saying its right or wrong just saying dont talk like this move will really piss off the majority of Knick fans because it wont and it certainly wont hurt the team attendance wise.

      I think the majority of people who follow the likes of Hahn on twitter during the offseason are fanboys/sport geeks who are not indicative of the population on the whole. I know that my (very large) family of casual sports observers will never understand how the Knicks could let go of Lin, or be able to understand why anyone would continue to follow them. I think that will go for a lot casual fans– and those people spend more money in the whole watching sports than the diehards.

    106. Count de Pennies

      @117 & 118:

      Yep; compared to the many shit sandwiches that were forced down our throats during the Layden/Isiah years, the possible departure of Lin seems like filet mignon.

    107. ABG

      For all of the castle drama, is there anyone out there making a case that Lin isn’t by far the Knicks best option at the point?

    108. Frank

      This whole thing just sucks. From a basketball standpoint, I’m not even sure whether this is a good thing or bad thing. It is entirely possible that the team will function better without a ball-dominating point guard like Lin. That being said, I feel like if this really happens the way it seems to be happening, it’ll be one of those rare situations in which no one wins.

      1) Knicks lose a charismatic world icon and get Ray Felton instead.
      2) This, I think will really hurt Lin – at the end of the day, it appears that he basically used his certainty that NYK would match to try to squeeze some more guaranteed $ out. Whether that was his agent’s call or not, it was still obviously a move that he knew was not going to make people at MSG happy. His story was built on him being the underdog, the wide-eyed kid who overcame odds and went from the end of the bench to worldwide fame. Now he’s still the guy who overcame all odds, but used a cold-blooded business move that will land him in Houston surrounded by Omer Asik and Kevin Martin rather than Melo/STAT/Chandler/JR/Novak. I don’t think even a Lin apologist could argue that this wasn’t a move meant to extract a LOT of $$ out of MSG and Dolan, that he knew for sure would cost Dolan tens of millions of dollars. I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve to make everything he can make – I’m just saying that some things are more important than $5MM more in guaranteed dollars – like your brand and your image. It’s already happening– the leaks, the backhanded comments –before MSG is done with Lin, he will definitely be portrayed as a guy who basically tried to extort $ out of the franchise that gave him the world stage.

      3) the Rockets – if Chicago doesn’t match Asik, I don’t see how Houston can make a good offer for DH12 anymore. And as much as I love Lin, he is not a game changer in the same stratosphere as Dwight/LBJ. Houston will be in the same place as they have been – fighting for 7-8 seed

    109. Caleb

      Letting Lin walk is indefensible – completely indefensible.

      Lin (and maybe Shumpert) are the only chance this franchise has of improving from a 5 or 6 six seed. We saw last year what this team is. We have no other young players – we’re not getting better with the same roster. Our +38 brigade is fine as minor role players but they’re not pushing us to the next level. We can’t pay a free agent more than $3 million until 2015.

      So either we’re counting on trading Amare to the Clippers for Chris Paul, or we’re going to chew on our 6 seed for the next three years. Pathetic.

      Unlikely as it looks, I hope this is all an elaborate head-fake.

    110. njasdjdh

      Frank: It is entirely possible that the team will function better without a ball-dominating point guard like Lin.

      It’s almost like you have no idea who Ray Felton is.

    111. Caleb

      And I’m not even talking about the financial aspect (which might be overrated – I don’t think he bumps the team income & value all that much, beyond his actual play)… and I’m not talking about the emotional investment/general excitement standpoint, which is obvious…

      I’m talking about from a pure basketball standpoint – are we trying to build a championship team or not?

      Obviously, Dolan or whoever thinks Felton & Kidd are all we need at the point, and that Carmelo Anthony is a superstar who can carry the team to a title.

      That’s all you need to know.

    112. DRed

      Caleb:

      Obviously, Dolan or whoever thinks Felton & Kidd are all we need at the point, and that Carmelo Anthony is a superstar who can carry the team to a title.

      That’s all you need to know.

      Carmelo’s bullshit from his flack Stephen A is really hard to take.

    113. jaredrutledge

      if lin walks, i’ll give it a few months. but if he blows up in houston and ray felton shoots 35%, i’m out, i think.

      sports is supposed to be fun, and this isn’t fun.

    114. Caleb

      Even from a PR standpoint it just seems insane, with Deron Williams moving in across the river.

    115. er

      boo hoo…everyone crying over lin……knicks fans are so rediculous and we wonder why everyone mocks us

    116. DRed

      er:
      boo hoo…everyone crying over lin……knicks fans are so rediculous and we wonder why everyone mocks us

      Because we can’t spell?

    117. er

      aww poor baby

      jaredrutledge:
      if lin walks, i’ll give it a few months. but if he blows up in houston and ray felton shoots 35%, i’m out, i think.

      sports is supposed to be fun, and this isn’t fun.

    118. taggart4800

      The point is that the Lin debate boils down to hearsay and conjecture because there isn’t enough data to support either argument. I am really ambivalent over the whole thing as I don’t think this team needs Lin the same way last years team did.
      Really liked the figures THCJ posted on Kidd and Camby’s Berri numbers (WP/48 i believe), It just highlights the strength of this years roster.

    119. Degree_Absolute

      I should not be surprised by any of the stupid shit that this farkakt organization peddles, but this “Lin is entitled”/”He lost the locker room” garbage is low. Hahn and company are doing a complete 180 on Lin. He is somehow a locker room problem because he got the best deal he could? Melo did the same fucking thing and gutted the entire organization and Melo has the gall to call Lin’s contract “ridiculous”? Earth to Melo, you make $20 million and you are a fat shit who makes no one around you one better. You won one playoff game in a NY uniform. Shut your mouth.

      Now we could match Lin without losing anything but money and you get the MSG mouthpiece to throw him under the bus? Holy hell. I understand that deep pockets have always been more of a detriment than a benefit for the Garden idiots, but the ONE time you can take a less than desirable contract (but still extremely tradeable) for a promising and marketable young player, you fucking don’t? I may be a sports masochist (Mets, Knicks and Browns fan), but this is too much. What is the goddamn safe word???

    120. johnlocke

      I liked Lin and was curious/excited about his potential, but this move he pulled just has me saying good riddance, enjoy playing with really crappy teammates in Houston. This organization claimed him off waivers, gave him a chance to play, and made him a starter on the world’s greatest stage. He got a BIG contract (the initial one), the Knicks privately told him they would match it, in order to breed trust and loyalty, then he uses that information to secure an even larger contract from Houston. Business is not just about extracting the most value you can, trust and loyalty and EARNING what you get matter. Going to miss Lin from a basketball perspective, but there is no way I’m going to blame the Knicks for losing him. Dolan has to be thinking what an ungrateful bastard.

    121. er

      thank you sir ….someone is making sense

      johnlocke:
      I liked Lin and was curious/excited about his potential, but this move he pulled just has me saying good riddance, enjoy playing with really crappy teammates in Houston. This organization claimed him off waivers, gave him a chance to play, and made him a starter on the world’s greatest stage. He got a BIG contract (the initial one), the Knicks privately told him they would match it, in order to breed trust and loyalty, then he uses that information to secure an even larger contract from Houston. Business is not just about extracting the most value you can, trust and loyalty and EARNING what you get matter. Going to miss Lin from a basketball perspective, but there is no way I’m going to blame the Knicks for losing him. Dolan has to be thinking what an ungrateful bastard.

    122. er

      all good points sir….look at the pgs we started the season with

      melo
      td
      shump
      injured baron

      so lin was needed ALOT….This year we got felton who has some familiarity with stat….kidd who has familiarity with chandler and melo
      and a solid 3rd man in the Argentine…i think we will be ok at pg….shooting guard i think is more of an issue

      taggart4800:
      The point is that the Lin debate boils down to hearsay and conjecture because there isn’t enough data to support either argument. I am really ambivalent over the whole thing as I don’t think this team needs Lin the same way last years team did.
      Really liked the figures THCJ posted on Kidd and Camby’s Berri numbers (WP/48 i believe), It just highlights the strength of this years roster.

    123. Caleb

      without Lin this roster is the same as last year’s first -round blowout roster.

      I mean, I know it looks like a sleazy move (at least from the outside) but why cut off your nose to spite your face?

      And it’s basically just playing hardball – hurts the team less than Melo insisting the Knicks gut the roster instead of waiting to sign as a FA (or in a more reasonable trade).

    124. Caleb

      I don’t know about Prigioni, but he’s 35 and he’s been backing up Sergio Rodriguez so let’s just say my expectations are guarded.

      At this point in his career Kidd is barely an upgrade over Baron Davis – ok as your backup point but not the guy you’re going to ride. Felton, we’ll see.

    125. yellowboy90

      Wow looking at the Anthony interview and reading the quotes are totally different. The media is a beast.

    126. er

      please stop this lin worship foolishness…how the heck is this roster anywhere near last years roster?

      starting line up last year to begin the season

      td
      fields
      melo
      stat
      chandler

      we had no lin…shump was injured at the beginning of the season and when he came back couldnt hit a shot
      melo was playing point forward and was hurt/couldnt make a shot

      novak didnt play
      lin didnt play
      stat was bad too

      we started 8-15

      Caleb:
      without Lin this roster is the same as last year’s first -round blowout roster.

      I mean, I know it looks like a sleazy move (at least from the outside) but why cut off your nose to spite your face?

      And it’s basically just playing hardball – hurts the team less than Melo insisting the Knicks gut the roster instead of waiting to sign as a FA (or in a more reasonable trade).

    127. Degree_Absolute

      johnlocke:
      I liked Lin and was curious/excited about his potential, but this move he pulled just has me saying good riddance, enjoy playing with really crappy teammates in Houston. This organization claimed him off waivers, gave him a chance to play, and made him a starter on the world’s greatest stage. He got a BIG contract (the initial one), the Knicks privately told him they would match it, in order to breed trust and loyalty, then he uses that information to secure an even larger contract from Houston. Business is not just about extracting the most value you can, trust and loyalty and EARNING what you get matter. Going to miss Lin from a basketball perspective, but there is no way I’m going to blame the Knicks for losing him. Dolan has to be thinking what an ungrateful bastard.

      It is a business. The Garden idiots lived up to their reputation if they thought otherwise. They made millions off of a guy they paid $800k last year. He is a cash cow with potential to get better. Without Lin, the Knicks need to win this year, because no else (save Shump if he can recover) is getting better on this team. Lin is a potentially good player, a financial asset, and a decent bargaining chip. Letting him leave for nothing because he secured the best contract he could is moronic.

      Best case scenario – this is a ploy to have the Rockets plan their future with Lin only to match at the last minute and leave them floundering. Do I have faith this will happen? No. Dolan owns the team.

    128. er

      i dont care about any media quotes from players…but some ppl hang on all the guy’s words so its whatever

      yellowboy90:
      Wow looking at the Anthony interview and reading the quotes are totally different. The media is a beast.

    129. hoolahoop

      Let Lin walk.
      Third year at $15 million plus luxury tax is too much for too little. I understand that Lin wants to maximize his $$$contract. That’s fine – that’s his business.
      Lin has not proven that he’s an elite PG. High turnovers, can’t go left, weak defense, injured . . . too many question marks to throw big bucks at.
      Bottom line, if the knicks are patient, better opportunities will come along. Raymond Felton may be one them.

    130. Caleb

      er:
      please stop this lin worship foolishness…how the heck is this roster anywhere near last years roster?

      starting line up last year to begin the season

      td
      fields
      melo
      stat
      chandler

      we had no lin…shump was injured at the beginning of the seasonand when he came back couldnt hit a shot
      melo was playing point forward and was hurt/couldnt make a shot

      novak didnt play
      lin didnt play
      stat was bad too

      we started 8-15

      Who cares about opening day? Look at our non-competitive playoff wipeout – the roster is virtually identical, except the key guys are all a year older.

      Only changes:
      – Kidd for Davis.
      – Prigioni for Fields
      – Camby for Jeffries/Harrelson
      – Shumpert hurt

      If Camby can stay out of a walker that might be a little boost off the bench, but otherwise…

      Dont feed the trolls, I know, I know.

    131. Caleb

      hoolahoop:

      Bottom line, if the knicks are patient, better opportunities will come along. Raymond Felton may be one them.

      There are no new opportunities coming that we wouldn’t have anyway… we have the same mini-MLE available the next three years, and the vet minimum. And we have all the same players to trade, or not. Except we now no longer have a starting-quality PG who would have been our best (only?) trade chip.

    132. yellowboy90

      Caleb: Who cares about opening day? Look at our non-competitive playoff wipeout – the roster is virtually identical, except the key guys are all a year older.

      Only changes:
      – Kidd for Davis.
      – Prigioni for Fields
      – Camby for Jeffries/Harrelson
      – Shumpert hurt

      If Camby can stay out of a walker that might be a little boost off the bench, but otherwise…

      Dont feed the trolls, I know, I know.

      SO you can honestly say that you see Kidd making the ridiculous passes time and time again like Baron did? Those are the things that made Baron look bad. He would play ok then try a stupid alley or jump in the air for no reason. Kidd plays smarter. So that comparison doesn’t work for me.

    133. Caleb

      Jason Kidd is 39 years old (and a repeat DWI offender). He was a backup last year and he’s not getting any younger. And he’s only playing 15-20 minutes a game, so even if he stays healthy and holds off time, it’s a minor improvement – and he’s not gonna be as good as Lin was last year.

    134. SeeWhyDee77

      JK47:
      STOP SAYING FELTON WILL GIVE US 13 AND 7.It’s driving me insane.

      Yeah, he’ll give us 13 points on 6-20 shooting every night.AWESOME. Ray Felton sucks ass.Period.

      I don’t think or rather hope he’s not dumb enough to shoot that often on a team with 2 players who can and should be top 10 scorers..lol. I think he shot alot with D’An cuz he allowed him 2 and we really didn’t have a 2nd option.

    135. er

      Well sir if we didn’t have that opening day lineup we wouldn’t have started 8-15 and wouldnt have been a 7 seed

      Caleb: Who cares about opening day? Look at our non-competitive playoff wipeout – the roster is virtually identical, except the key guys are all a year older.

      Only changes:
      – Kidd for Davis.
      – Prigioni for Fields
      – Camby for Jeffries/Harrelson
      – Shumpert hurt

      If Camby can stay out of a walker that might be a little boost off the bench, but otherwise…

      Dont feed the trolls, I know, I know.

    136. er

      Lmao wow I doont think anyone said that but we have 3 PGs as opposed to 1 last yr

      Caleb:
      Jason Kidd is 39 years old (and a repeat DWI offender). He was a backup last year and he’s not getting any younger. And he’s only playing 15-20 minutes a game, so even if he stays healthy and holds off time, it’s a minor improvement – and he’s not gonna be as good as Lin was last year.

    137. Brian Cronin

      I don’t think or rather hope he’s not dumb enough to shoot that often on a team with 2 players who can and should be top 10 scorers..lol. I think he shot alot with D’An cuz he allowed him 2 and we really didn’t have a 2nd option.

      I don’t even have much of a problem with Felton overall (I mean, him “replacing” Lin is terrible, but that’s on losing Lin not gettign Felton), but guys like him don’t suddenly stop thinking that they can hit every shot they take.

    138. Caleb

      yeah it’s no knock on Felton.

      But you look at last year’s roster and this year’s and you can’t see any reason this year’s team will be better. I mean, they’ll probably have a slightly better record, since they shouldn’t have the terrible start, and last year’s team won fewer games than the point differential would predict. And if they get to a 6-seed or higher, they should have a more competitive 1st-round series, or conceivably win a first-round series. But as far as making a serious run, they’re letting their only chance walk out the door. And next year will only be worse..

      I mean, nothing’s impossible – they could find another starting-quality PG on the waiver wire, or Shump could blow up into a star, but those are things that could happen anyway. There is just no way to defend this move, from a basketball standpoint.

    139. Caleb

      er:
      Lmao wow I doont think anyone said that but we have 3 PGs as opposed to 1 last yr

      We have 3 backup PGs, yes.

    140. Caleb

      To continue my rant…

      If you (Dolan) hate Lin and never want to see him again… forchrissakes, match the offer and trade him in December. You’ll have a dozen teams bidding and you could get something in return, and still roll out the FelKiddioni backcourt of your dreams.

      It’s not a crazy contract – forget the 3rd year; it’s a 3-year, $25 million contract. Goran Dragic got 4 years and $35 million.

      The big tax is two years away – you have plenty of time to maneuver out of it, if Lin is disappointing. And if he meets expectations, he’s worth it.

    141. Brian Cronin

      Obviously, Caleb. And the stupidity of the situation makes you think it just has to be Dolan behind it, right? Grunwald wouldn’t just let an asset get away like this, right?

    142. SeeWhyDee77

      njasdjdh:
      Maybe Felton is a better fit than Lin:

      http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/47791/felton-over-lin-are-the-knicks-lin-sane

      wow..jus read that article. BACK OUT OF THE TRADE AN MATCH ON LIN IMMEDIATELY!! Wow..I knew Felton wasn’t the best..but I on’t kno..i’m eatin crow on not have a huge problem with Felton instead of Lin. Statistically, Lin is far more superior in the things he would likely be asked to do in Woody’s offense than Felton is. I guess I was blinded by Felton’s early season run with D’Antoni. @JK47…yup Felton will suck ass. I did say earlier tho, that I’d rather have Lin because I’ve seen him take over games. Those stats in that article really cements how much we need Lin on the court as much as off. Like I said..maybe we add Felton and still match on Lin and start a Lin/Kidd backcourt while Prigs and Felton battle it out for back up minutes. The only question in that scenario is how do we ease Shump in? Do we now look to trade Smith? Or can Smith play primarily as a sf? But isn’t that Novak’s spot? I do think at 6’10” he should be a stretch 4. Y we continue to use him at SF is puzzling

    143. Degree_Absolute

      Caleb: The big tax is two years away – you have plenty of time to maneuver out of it, if Lin is disappointing. And if he meets expectations, he’s worth it.

      Yes, exactly!!!

    144. JLam

      Caleb:
      To continue my rant…

      If you (Dolan) hate Lin and never want to see him again… forchrissakes, match the offer and trade him in December. You’ll have a dozen teams bidding and you could get something in return, and still roll out the FelKiddioni backcourt of your dreams.

      It’s not a crazy contract – forget the 3rd year; it’s a 3-year, $25 million contract. Goran Dragic got 4 years and $35 million.

      The big tax is two years away – you have plenty of time to maneuver out of it, if Lin is disappointing. And if he meets expectations, he’s worth it.

      I agree
      He’s making 5 million on the first two years
      Sorry to see Lin go and get nothing in return

    145. SeeWhyDee77

      Maybe once Shump comes back we move Smith for somethin like Daye and a pick? That’s IF we match on Lin and go with a Kidd/Lin backcourt. I don’t know…headache this is..

    146. max fisher-cohen

      Z-man:
      Continuing, recall that we (me included) were convinced that Fields was the next John Havlicek after he won NBA Rookie of the Month twice in a row. Be honest with yourselves: how many of you would have “jumped ship” if he was packaged in the Melo deal instead of Felton? And then reality set in and Landry was exposed for what he was…a solid second round pick with serious limitations and nothing more. Now imagine Fields making fucking $15 million next year, plus costing between $37 and $47 in ADDITIONAL luxury tax.

      Anybody who jumps ship over this deal is just plain silly. The Knicks will be a very exciting team to watch for the next 3 years, with or without Lin.

      So by this logic, Monta Ellis, Manu Ginobili, Marc Gasol, Mehmet Okur, Rashard Lewis, Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer, Gilbert Arenas, and Willis Reed should all have been waived or traded after their rookie seasons. They were all second round picks, so they lacked the pedigree. Better not to trust our eyes and to go with some guys who aren’t too far from needing wheelchairs.

      Seriously though there is risk with every young player who shows promise that he will turn into a pumpkin. Sometimes it’s injuries, sometimes it’s just psychological. That said, if you build a team like an anal retentive person, only signing the ultimate sure thing type players, you basically rule out a championship since you’ve got 29 other teams who ARE going to take those risks and some of them are going to pay off.

    147. Frank

      Brian Cronin:
      Obviously, Caleb. And the stupidity of the situation makes you think it just has to be Dolan behind it, right? Grunwald wouldn’t just let an asset get away like this, right?

      Seriously -if nothing else, you could always trade him this year or next to Sacramento for Jimmer and Isiah Thomas- they definitely won’t be in the tax, and need someone like Lin to draw fans. He would be a huge draw even 2 hours outside the Bay Area.

    148. Brian Cronin

      Seriously -if nothing else, you could always trade him this year or next to Sacramento for Jimmer and Isiah Thomas- they definitely won’t be in the tax, and need someone like Lin to draw fans. He would be a huge draw even 2 hours outside the Bay Area.

      Exactly. This just screams Dolan either A. Got pissed or B. As ephus guessed, just figured out the luxury tax hit, like, Friday (and as absurd as that sounds, remember that New Jersey did not understand their cap situation either when they first signed Teletovic).

      Because Grunwald was playing this a very specific way that was based entirely on Lin coming back no matter what (letting Lin set his own market and signing Kidd to be Lin’s back-up/mentor). And then suddenly, that wasn’t the case.

    149. Caleb

      I don’t want to trade him but if we did, Dallas would take him in a heartbeat, off the top of my head. Beabois, pick or picks, trade exception, whatever.

    150. SeeWhyDee77

      Frank: Seriously -if nothing else, you could always trade him this year or next to Sacramento for Jimmer and Isiah Thomas- they definitely won’t be in the tax, and need someone like Lin to draw fans. He would be a huge draw even 2 hours outside the Bay Area.

      I like that idea..but would Sac go 4 it?

    151. Brian Cronin

      I don’t want to trade him but if we did, Dallas would take him in a heartbeat, off the top of my head. Beabois, pick or picks, trade exception, whatever.

      Yeah, I don’t want to trade him either, but fuck, you have two years to trade the guy before the balloon payment, just match and then trade him if you really don’t want him around. Don’t let one of your biggest assets walk for nothing when you’re ostensibly trying to put the best possible team on the floor.

    152. Glew

      I really don’t understand the felton trade we are still without another sg and essentially out of trading pieces granted there will prob be someone decent enough to pick up on the vet min but if we could have gotten a slightly better than vet min shooter why didn’t we? And match on Lin. correct me if I’m wrong but wouldnt all our big contracts including Lin if we match be expiring by the 3rd year and would be attractive to other teams looking to clear cap? Also people are saying what did Lin do on the court? The guy had the most points in 1st 5 games in league history. More than jordan, magic, kareem. Also didn’t the coaching staff keep Lin out of the playoffs not Lin himself? I like felton but yeah dude needs to drop some lbs. Also did n e one think the whole summer league team needs to pump some iron? Didn’t look like any of them including flight white could handle the physicallity of the NBA

    153. Brian Cronin

      I imagine that if the Knicks don’t match, they feel someone decent will be available for the vet minimum when the free agent merry go round stops.

    154. Caleb

      Brian Cronin:
      I imagine that if the Knicks don’t match, they feel someone decent will be available for the vet minimum when the free agent merry go round stops.

      I think they’re thinking, “The hell with the kid -we have Jason Kidd, hall-of-Famer! And Ray Felton – weren’t people talking about him on ESPN? And Carmelo Anthony! How could we possibly lose? Anyway, we already sold out season tickets at our new prices so it’s all water under the bridge. Isiah’s gonna love this when I tell him. Get him on the phone, stat!”

    155. Brian Cronin

      This is why I keep saying we should wait until Tuesday night before jumping to conclusions.

      By the way, I totally get that, but when you have pretty much every reporter that there is stating it with a certainty, it sure makes you think that there’s fire where all this smoke is coming from, ya know?

    156. Caleb

      Brian Cronin: By the way, I totally get that, but when you have pretty much every reporter that there is stating it with a certainty, it sure makes you think that there’s fire where all this smoke is coming from, ya know?

      Yeah, obviously all this ranting assumes they let Lin walk.. otherwise, hey, we’re all good. Shalom.

      I don’t think it’s necessarily a done deal.

      a) Dolan could be having a hissy fit and Grunwald is waiting until Tuesday night, crossing his fingers that the boss will calm down.

      b) Dolan is pathetic enough to do a big song and dance just to get Lin some bad press and make him sweat, as “revenge.” Even if he bites the bullet at the end.

      By the by, if Knicks and Bulls don’t match, and Houston swings a Dwight Howard trade, they’re looking at paying about $52 million to Lin, Asik and Howard for the 2014-2015 season.

      Anyone who thinks Lin’s contract is ridiculous, Asik got a near-identical offer sheet.

    157. jon abbey

      I don’t think I’ve ever seen Caleb this pissed before, definitely my favorite development in Knicks-land today.

    158. bobneptune

      daaarn:
      Just saw Darko cleared waivers. Given the recent trend, who thinks the Knicks’ll pick him up again haha? [and at this point, I’m only half joking]

      he isn’t over 40 yet

    159. Brian Cronin

      I don’t think I’ve ever seen Caleb this pissed before, definitely my favorite development in Knicks-land today.

      No doubt that one of the things that makes this a whooooooooole lot more bearable is having Knickerblogger here to talk/rant/whatever.

    160. Caleb

      Brian Cronin: No doubt that one of the things that makes this a whooooooooole lot more bearable is having Knickerblogger here to talk/rant/whatever.

      all true. Nets aren’t that scorching… yet!

    161. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Caleb:

      Anyone who thinks Lin’s contract is ridiculous, Asik got a near-identical offer sheet.

      Asik posted a .225 WP48 last season. Too many fouls and turnovers, but those rebounding numbers don’t lie.

    162. Caleb

      I’ve been giving Dolan a lot of crap, so in memory of the Fairness Doctrine, I will give some well-deserved crap to Lin, his agent and Daryl Morey, who did in fact pull a bush-league move.

      Basically, IF they offered this deal on the up and up and IF Dolan didn’t want to match, they would have done a sign and trade for Marcus Camby… and the Knicks would have put Harrelson, Jordan and the 2nd round picks, in a trade for Jason Kidd (Dallas was reportedly willing). Now the Knicks would still have the mini-MLE available.

      Instead, Team Morey threw a sucker punch.

      Now, I know that changing the terms of Lin’s offer is legal, and there’s a fine line between good GM’ing and being unethical, but based on everything I’ve heard, verbal deals struck in the first days of free agency, are deals. Look at Landry Fields… and that’s why people were so ticked at Elton Brand when he backed out of his Clippers agreement.

      So… I don’t blame Dolan and Grunwald for being furious. But like I said, you only hurt yourself if you don’t match. Get revenge another day..

    163. er

      Fair points

      Caleb:
      I’ve been giving Dolan a lot of crap, so in memory of the Fairness Doctrine, I will give some well-deserved crap to Lin, his agent and Daryl Morey, who did in fact pull a bush-league move.

      Basically, IF they offered this deal on the up and up and IF Dolan didn’t want to match, they would have done a sign and trade for Marcus Camby… and the Knicks would have put Harrelson, Jordan and the 2nd round picks, in a trade for Jason Kidd (Dallas was reportedly willing). Now the Knicks would still have the mini-MLE available.

      Instead, Team Morey threw a sucker punch.

      Now, I know that changing the terms of Lin’s offer is legal, and there’s a fine line between good GM’ing and being unethical, but based on everything I’ve heard, verbal deals struck in the first days of free agency, are deals. Look at Landry Fields… and that’s why people were so ticked at Elton Brand when he backed out of his Clippers agreement.

      So… I don’t blame Dolan and Grunwald for being furious. But like I said, you only hurt yourself if you don’t match. Get revenge another day..

    164. thenamestsam

      Caleb:

      Now, I know that changing the terms of Lin’s offer is legal, and there’s a fine line between good GM’ing and being unethical, but based on everything I’ve heard, verbal deals struck in the first days of free agency, are deals. Look at Landry Fields… and that’s why people were so ticked at Elton Brand when he backed out of his Clippers agreement.

      So… I don’t blame Dolan and Grunwald for being furious. But like I said, you only hurt yourself if you don’t match. Get revenge another day..

      Got to disagree with this. The two other scenarios you bring up, Brand and Fields are COMPLETELY different for one critical reason. In both of those situations one of the parties either did (Brand) or would have (Fields) been pulling out of a previously agreed upon agreement at the expense of screwing the other party to the agreement. That’s unethical as all get-out.

      With Lin that’s not what happened at all. Two parties reached an agreement. At a later date they mutually agreed to put that agreement aside and reach an agreement that was better for both of them (Houston gets their PG, Lin gets more cash). The fact that the Knicks got hurt in all this is completely irrelevant. They’re not a party to the agreement. It’s not a comparable situation.

      That said, I understand why Grunwald and Dolan are pissed. They’re the ones getting hurt and Lin a guy who they gave a big break to is one of the parties doing the hurting. I’d be pissed to. But making decisions emotionally is not a good way to run a successful business long-term. Yes, Lin hasn’t exactly endeared himself to Knicks management, but he’s still a positive asset even with that contract and you don’t let positive assets leave because you’re annoyed.

    165. bobneptune

      Caleb:
      yeah it’s no knock on Felton.

      But you look at last year’s roster and this year’s and you can’t see any reason this year’s team will be better.

      Assuming Lin is not resigned, I think the current roster will have difficulty scoring as odd as that sounds.

      the Felton Kidd pg slot both had awful years from the floor scoring. Chandler isn’t a threat to score more than 3 feet from the rim. The new starting 2 guard is erratic to say the least and extra minutes are going to exacerbate that tendency. Melo can certainly score with the best of them, but which Amar’e are we getting, the pre or post Melo one?

      The bench features exactly (Novak) one player that can score in a singular fashion and who plays a position where 38 minutes are accounted for on a nightly basis. Camby and Kurt Thomas account for the non starting 4-5 minutes and neither are scorers.

      And that doesn’t address the back up 2 spot for the first 3 months of the season , either.

      They have to resign Lin and worry about the finances later, even though it is a crazy price in year 3.

      But that is what happens when you overpay other players.

    166. bobneptune

      thenamestsam:

      That said, I understand why Grunwald and Dolan are pissed. They’re the ones getting hurt and Lin a guy who they gave a big break to is one of the parties doing the hurting.

      They have zero reason to be pissed.

      They didn’t give Lin a big break or anything. They made a desperation move that worked out exceedingly well for both parties. Linsanity saved the Knick’s season from the abyss, Dolan sold a bunch of jersies, seats and 2 home playoff games. Lin EARNED a 25million contract.

      Dolan and GG had the chance to offer Lin a contract lin might have agreed to, but they were cute and underestimated his market value.

      So now they have to pay to play. They should look in the mirror rather than being faux pissed.

    167. Caleb

      thenamestsam: Got to disagree with this. The two other scenarios you bring up, Brand and Fields are COMPLETELY different for one critical reason. In both of those situations one of the parties either did (Brand) or would have (Fields) been pulling out of a previously agreed upon agreement at the expense of screwing the other party to the agreement. That’s unethical as all get-out.

      With Lin that’s not what happened at all. Two parties reached an agreement. At a later date they mutually agreed to put that agreement aside and reach an agreement that was better for both of them (Houston gets their PG, Lin gets more cash). The fact that the Knicks got hurt in all this is completely irrelevant. They’re not a party to the agreement. It’s not a comparable situation.

      That said, I understand why Grunwald and Dolan are pissed. They’re the ones getting hurt and Lin a guy who they gave a big break to is one of the parties doing the hurting. I’d be pissed to. But making decisions emotionally is not a good way to run a successful business long-term. Yes, Lin hasn’t exactly endeared himself to Knicks management, but he’s still a positive asset even with that contract and you don’t let positive assets leave because you’re annoyed.

      Obviously I don’t know first-hand but based on reports this is exactly what happened – rockets and lin struck a deal, then reneged. In this case it was a team and not a player doing the double-cross, but I don’t see why its any better.

      For an example of a clean, honest fake-out, look how orlando got brandon bass away from dallas … Without backing out of an agreed-deal.

    168. Brian Cronin

      Does Utah regret swallowing the poison pill on Milsap’s contract?

      Milsap had played three very good years in the league by the time they had to face that contract. And it did not have a poison pill, it was more a matter of “Can you afford to pay luxury tax to keep Millsap and Boozer?” and Utah said, “For now, we will.”

    169. hoolahoop

      Caleb: There are no new opportunities coming that we wouldn’t have anyway… we have the same mini-MLE available the next three years, and the vet minimum. And we have all the same players to trade, or not. Except we now no longer have a starting-quality PG who would have been our best (only?) trade chip.

      That’s the same short-sighted approach that this franchise has been taking for years. Nothing is further from the truth – with patience comes many opportunities (i.e. Deron Williams, Dwight Howard. The knicks could have made a play for these guys if they were in the right position. Howard probably would have loved coming to the knicks.)

    170. Caleb

      hoolahoop: That’s the same short-sighted approach that this franchise has been taking for years. Nothing is further from the truth – with patience comes many opportunities (i.e. Deron Williams, Dwight Howard. The knicks could have made a play for these guys if they were in the right position. Howard probably would have loved coming to the knicks.)

      That’s pretty lame – it isn’t 3 years ago… Dropping lin offers no salary cap benefit (unless we’re planning to dump melo AND Chandler, too) and offers no added flexibility.

      Btw, I don’t actually think the asik deal is “ridiculous” as he’s a pretty good player but he’s not as valuable as lin. Plus his 15m salary will look a little silly if they’re also giving 20+ to dwight howard in 2015. That team would be paying some mega-luxury tax or fielding a pretty mediocre team.

    171. hoolahoop

      BigBlueAL:
      I know it doesnt mean much to the people who visit this site (and rightfully so) but the reaction to Lin possibly leaving in the NY media and with what seems like the majority of Knick fans (at least non-Knickerblogger Knick fans lol) is not that big a deal.I say this because many here talk about how this will turn Knick fans into Net fans and stuff and thats just not the case at all.

      Not saying its right or wrong just saying dont talk like this move will really piss off the majority of Knick fans because it wont and it certainly wont hurt the team attendance wise.

      I agree.
      The majority of knicks fans are not fanatics like us. They turn on the tv after a long day of work and catch part of the game, sometimes. They don’t lose sleep over who’s on the team and who gets traded. . . . and they think Melo really is a superstar.

    172. Caleb

      To contiue that thought.. Dropping lin creates LESS flexibility. It’s one less piece to include in a trade. I’m sure yore having fantasies about chris paul… When he plays hardball w/the clips, are we in better shape having lin to offer? Or when our best offer is amare stoudemire and Jason kidd?as without lin, we’re the joe johnson nets trying to swing a Howard deal.

      Nott to mention. At 8m per, Lin’s offer sheet isn’t even a bad deal… It’s about even with expectedd production, for a 23 y/o who actually has a decent chance to grow beyond that… At a position of need.. And where we otherwise have no good options, either at PG or for young players with upside.

    173. AlmostFanatic

      Not sure if this is even relavent at this point. But, I just walked by my tv and fox news was doing their sports spot, and pointed out that in the short time Lin went from nobody to phenom, MSG and the Knicks organization made somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 million. I’d say given the fact that his salary isn’t the only one pushing them over the luxury tax, but his presence most definitely made the majority of that 500 mil (I think Tyson Chandler and Shump deserve a bit of credit too. They are both players that commit to every posession, as well as being awesome enough in general to make people want to get behind them) increase in revenue. Maybe its just me, but if someone made me 500 million dollars over the span of something like 3-4 months at most, I might be willing to gamble on eating the luxury tax to see how much money he would make me in a full season. Then again, its not my money or my team. I can see why Dolan would be hesitant, but if this is more about hurt feelings than basketball or finances, then thats just pathetic

    174. MeloDrama

      If Dolan wants to be petty and get revenge, he’d seriously be better off matching the deal, then just ordering the benching of Lin until December, when they can deal him.

      I mean that’s awful too, but it’s better than what they’re talking about doing (which is turning the luckiest thing the Knicks have had in years into a massive sore spot among fans)

    175. johnno

      I am STUNNED that people are pissed at the Knicks and not at Lin. Let’s look at what happened — he made a deal with the Rockets and the terms were made public. Woodson then immediately told Lin that the Knicks would match and announced that Lin would be his starting point guard. Lin then sneaked behind the Knicks’ back and squeezed more money from the Rockets, apparently because he was so sure that the Knicks would match it and essentially made Woodson look like an idiot. Can you imagine how pissed Woodson is? The bottom line is that, if he really wants to play for the Rockets, he played things perfectly and will get his way. If he really wanted to play for the Knicks, then he is a world class jerk. By the way, all of you guys who are trashing Felton — aren’t you the same ones who were screaming when they traded him away?

    176. MeloDrama

      Also, LOL at reporters saying this opens the door for Paul. How?!?!

      Paul’s a longshot, but at least if Paul wanted to leave LA next season, you might be able to convince the notoriously cheap Sterling to accept Lin for him based on all the international interest and money he’d generate for his franchise.

    177. Brian Cronin

      By the way, all of you guys who are trashing Felton — aren’t you the same ones who were screaming when they traded him away?

      I didn’t like throwing Felton in when the Knicks “needed” him for a future deal for Paul. But once that dream was gone, I had no problem dealing him for Billups, as Billups was a lot better than Felton. In fact, I just looked back at my posts from the trade and that was pretty much exactly what I said at the time.

    178. AlmostFanatic

      johnno:
      I am STUNNED that people are pissed at the Knicks and not at Lin.Let’s look at what happened — he made a deal with the Rockets and the terms were made public.Woodson then immediately told Lin that the Knicks would match and announced that Lin would be his starting point guard.Lin then sneaked behind the Knicks’ back and squeezed more money from the Rockets, apparently because he was so sure that the Knicks would match it and essentially made Woodson look like an idiot.Can you imagine how pissed Woodson is?The bottom line is that, if he really wants to play for the Rockets, he played things perfectly and will get his way.If he really wanted to play for the Knicks, then he is a world class jerk.By the way, all of you guys who are trashing Felton — aren’t you the same ones who were screaming when they traded him away?

      I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that the Knicks were going to match whatever Lin was offered, atleast thats the impression I was under, I wasn’t aware that it was a secret. As far as the underhandedness of changing the offer, had the Knicks made him an offer to begin with, they could have avoided this drama. I’m definitely not one of the people mad about it at all. There are two sides to every story and often times 3,4 and 5. I can see it from both sides as I am on the WAY outside looking in. I just think this is a very interesting situation. Maybe so many people, especially the media are focusing even more on this, in order to pay attention to something other than the Dwightmare in Orlando. No?

    179. AlmostFanatic

      side note: all this is talking about Lin for Felton just made me think to myself Dear God, they must have been shitting frisbees in Denver when Nene was traded for Javale McGee! HAHAHA

    180. thenamestsam

      Caleb: Obviously I don’t know first-hand but based on reports this is exactly what happened – rockets and lin struck a deal, then reneged. In this case it was a team and not a player doing the double-cross, but I don’t see why its any better.

      For an example of a clean, honest fake-out, look how orlando got brandon bass away from dallas … Without backing out of an agreed-deal.

      No, you’re not understanding me. There is no double-cross. The agreement is between the Rockets and Jeremy Lin. The Rockets did not double cross Lin, and Lin is the only person they can double cross. He is THE ONLY person with whom they had an agreement. They reached an agreement with him and then mutually agreed to set aside that (verbal) contract and negotiate a new one. You can only double-cross (to use your terminology) someone with whom you have an arrangement in the first place. There is no deal between the Rockets and the Knicks to renege on. A double-cross would be if Toronto went to Fields (with whom they had a deal) and reneged on that deal without Fields’ consent. In this case Houston improved the deal, making both themselves and Lin better off. Both parties are happy. How the Knicks feel is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether Houston acted ethically.

      If both parties agree to dissolve a (verbal) contract before its completion there is nothing unethical about that. It is actually extremely standard.

    181. johnno

      Lin’s agent made it clear before free agency started that Lin would not accept the max deal that the Knicks could have offered, so you are dead wrong when you say that the Knicks could have avoided this mess if they had offered Lin a contract. According to a lot of reports, Lin really wants to come back to the Knicks. If that is the case, he really screwed up. He gambled that the Knicks wouldn’t mind being double-crossed and it appears that he will end up in Houston.

      AlmostFanatic: I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that the Knicks were going to match whatever Lin was offered, atleast thats the impression I was under, I wasn’t aware that it was a secret. As far as the underhandedness of changing the offer, had the Knicks made him an offer to begin with, they could have avoided this drama. I’m definitely not one of the people mad about it at all. There are two sides to every story and often times 3,4 and 5. I can see it from both sides as I am on the WAY outside looking in. I just think this is a very interesting situation. Maybe so many people, especially the media are focusing even more on this, in order to pay attention to something other than the Dwightmare in Orlando. No?

    182. klownboy

      As much as I liked Lin and what he did for us, he is NOT worth the $14.5 million in the last year of that contract. Not even close. If Dolan doesn’t get in the way and screw this up, this will be a sound business move for the Knicks.
      http://wp.me/p1gCK6-qG

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