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Thursday, July 24, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Aug 19 2012)

  • [New York Times] Basketball Star Jonathon Hargett’s Promising Career Derailed (Sun, 19 Aug 2012 05:09:06 GMT)
    Jonathan Hargett was once thought to be the first point guard to jump from high school to the N.B.A., but that was before a tumultuous college career and a prison sentence.

  • 18 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Aug 19 2012)

    1. Z-man

      I have to respectfully disagree with all of the “keep Amare and Melo off the floor together as much as possible” train of thought. While there is considerable overlap in their skillsets, both are multidimensonal offensive players. It is ludicrous to think that it is best for the team to conclude that they CAN’T figure out how to be productive together for 24+ minutes a game + absolutely in crunch time. I would rather see them crash and burn than give in to this nonsense that we’re better when only one of them is on the floor. The same stuff was said about LeBron and Wade, and even LeBron, Wade and Bosh (and some people here say that the problem is Amare vs. Chandler, not Amare vs. Melo.)

      What is best for this team is for the three of these guys to figure it out, with the help of the coach and the leadership of Kidd, Felton, and maybe Camby, Prigioni and Thomas. If they can’t do it, then that is a bigger issue than their “games,” it means they don’t care enough about winning to bring out the best in each other. The only chance we have of making it to the ECFs s for those 3 guys to be on the court for most of every playoff game. The preseason and regular season is ample time to get those guys rolling together.

      Let’s keep in mind that last year, we had a locout, Amare coming off a serious back injury, a black hole at PG, rookies and scrubs playing starter’s minutes at key positions, and a dogmatic coach that had zero interest in adapting to his players. The Amare-Melo-Chandler experiment hasn’t even had a chance to work itself out.

    2. Z-man

      And jon, the Steph analogy really doesn’t apply, he was under new management and in the final year of his contract. And I thought it was a dumb move at the time because he was clearly better than Duhon.

    3. max fisher-cohen

      @z-man, even if they can play together effectively, the team NEEDS two things out on the floor at all times: a shooter and a primary offensive option. If you always have Chandler or Camby out there, that means the only way you can play Novak, our best shooter, is if Amare or Carmelo sits. Further, if Amar’e and Melo are on the bench together, that means you likely have JR Smith out htere as your first option, which is asking for trouble.

      It’s not like such a thing has never been done before. THe Heat does it with James and Wade, and the Knicks used to do it with Sprewell and Houston. Both start, but when one rests, the other is always out there.

    4. Z-man

      Agreed,max, but that’s different than saying we should minimize the time they are on the court together. That’s why I said 24+ minutes, meaning about half of every quarter. So, in effect, each would play w/o the other 12-15 mpg. Which is more or less what Miami does. In that context, discussing the rest of the rotation and secondary lineups makes sense. The reality is that Amare and Melo will be on the floor a lot together, and if not, Woodson will be gone.

    5. Z-man

      Also, while Novak is a great spot-up 3-pt shooter, he can’t defend, rebound, drive, or dribble. – wouldn’t be overly concerned where his 10-15 mpg are gonna fit. Whether he is in for Melo, Amare or plays with both in a small lineup w/ Amare at the 5, or in a big lineup with ,ovak at the 2, or when both guys are out, he’ll get his.

    6. Juany8

      Z-man:
      Agreed,max, but that’s different than saying we should minimize the time they are on the court together. That’s why I said 24+ minutes, meaning about half of every quarter. So, in effect, each would play w/o the other 12-15 mpg. Which is more or less what Miami does.In that context, discussing the rest of the rotation and secondary lineups makes sense.The reality is that Amare and Melo will be on the floor a lot together, and if not, Woodson will be gone.

      As long as Amar’e can make his jumpers this year, the frontline fits together fine. The only issue is that both Chandler and Amar’e can’t have their absolute max efficiency (only one can be diving on a pick and roll on any given play) but as long as Amar’e can shoot efficiently, the team offense will be fine. It would also help if Amar’e and Chandler worked on their interior passing, as it is, you can pack the paint against either one and they are more likely to try to jump over the defense than they are to pass it smartly to one another. It also helps that Melo will get chances to spot up off a real PG while not being stuck in a D’Antoni offense that FORCED him to stand in the corner half the game, and apparently had issues with getting Melo trying to post up (seriously, D’Antoni was a crap coach for this team)

    7. AvonBarksdale

      Yeah I don’t know what D’Antoni was thinking and what you said about him just standing in the corner was true…does it justify his lack of intensity/hustle, or excuse his behavior? Either way that’s in the past, my concern is that woodson had novak/amare just standing around on the offense so hope to see NONE of that with any players this upcoming season, i believe everyone can play to their individual strengths and give effort on the defensive end now but i am more nervous woodson is gonna let the inmates run the asylum (melo, dolan, jr smith, amare is clueless but you get my point ).

    8. AvonBarksdale

      also i agree with whoever said STAT looks to be in great shape and i’m fucking stoked he is spending that time with Hakeem, wish Chandler could cram in some time but whatever his effort is unquestionable.

    9. BigBlueAL

      “It also helps that Melo will get chances to spot up off a real PG while not being stuck in a D’Antoni offense that FORCED him to stand in the corner half the game”

      Billups and Lin werent real PGs?? When they werent playing Melo had the ball in D’Antoni’s offense as much as he had it under Woodson.

      Its very easy to forget how good Melo’s numbers were in D’Antoni’s offense after the trade in 2011. Of course it helped they had Billups and a good TD playing PG during that time.

    10. massive

      WS/48 says Melo had a better season this year (.160) than last year’s stint with the Knicks (.157). I just hope Melo can become a player that every evaluation tool (WS/48, WP/48, PER, “the eye test”) thinks is a superstar. If Melo was as good as KD (and Felton as good as he usually is on playoff teams), we’d be one hell of a team.

    11. ruruland

      BigBlueAL:
      “It also helps that Melo will get chances to spot up off a real PG while not being stuck in a D’Antoni offense that FORCED him to stand in the corner half the game”

      Billups and Lin werent real PGs??When they werent playing Melo had the ball in D’Antoni’s offense as much as he had it under Woodson.

      Its very easy to forget how good Melo’s numbers were in D’Antoni’s offense after the trade in 2011.Of course it helped they had Billups and a good TD playing PG during that time.

      with Lin as pg Melo assisted basket attempts increased about 15 percent (I had to watch all of Melo plays with Lin to determine) Melo efficiency on those plays was WAY below normal, however.

      Billups is a combo guard, or score first pg, who is inferior as a passer/penetrator to Felton/kidd

    12. Juany8

      ruruland: with Lin as pg Melo assisted basket attempts increased about 15 percent (I had to watch all of Melo plays with Lin to determine) Melo efficiency on those plays was WAY below normal, however.

      Billups is a combo guard, or score first pg, who is inferior as a passer/penetrator to Felton/kidd

      More importantly, Melo and Lin played about 15 games together. Not much of a chance for them to show anything, and D’Antoni for some reason decided to let Lin take over everything. Under Woodson, they looked great together, unfortunately, that only last 7 games.

    13. Jafa

      Who is Tony Taylor, jr.?

      The next Jeremy Lin. After Felton gets exposed in the first 15-20 games, Woodson will demote him and give the keys to Kidd. Kidd will look good but Pablo will be just average with the 2nd unit. Just before his contract becomes guaranteed, Woodson will give Taylor a shot as the back-up, and he will proceed to outplay all the other PGs. The Knicks will end the season with Kidd starting and finishing games, and Taylor carrying the bulk of the PG load. In the off-season, the Knicks will let Taylor go after his is offered a back-loaded contract by another team, while signing another 35+ PG to the veteran’s minimum contract.

    14. Jafa

      They will call it “Double T Time”. Some will call it “Tonymania” and others will call it “Tony the Tiger”!

    15. Jafa

      He’ll have a TS% of 0.600,will shoot 40% from 3s and 87% from the FT line. He will make Linsanity look like a footnote in history.

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