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Thursday, November 27, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Oct 20 2012)

  • [New York Newsday] Amar'e Stoudemire shows flash and rust in return (Sat, 20 Oct 2012 03:41:04 EDT)
    The first time Amar'e Stoudemire got the ball in the post, he spun quickly on Andrea Bargnani and scored on a short turnaround jumper from the baseline.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo drops 24 in 19-point loss to Raptors (Sat, 20 Oct 2012 02:14:03 GMT)
    Andrea Bargnani scored 20 points and the Toronto Raptors beat the New York Knicks 107-88 on Friday night in a preseason game at the sold-out Bell Centre.

  • [New York Post] Stoudemire returns to Knicks lineup but unable to click with Anthony (Sat, 20 Oct 2012 04:02:15 -0500)
    MONTREAL â?? Even in French-speaking Quebec, Amar’e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony didn’t speak the same language.
    Their statistical numbers were good enough, but they each looked best when the other was on the bench. Paired together down the stretch in an attempt to make a rally, Anthony and Stoudemire…

  • [New York Post] Fields off Knicks â??roller coaster’ (Sat, 20 Oct 2012 03:56:46 -0500)
    MONTREAL â?? Everything has changed for Landry Fields as he takes his fledgling career north of the border. He now wears his Raptors jersey proudly, changing from his Knicks No. 6 back to his Stanford No. 2.
    Fields no longer even knows the whereabouts of the famous couch Jeremy Lin slept…

  • 21 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Oct 20 2012)

    1. Z-man

      Two other observations:
      Toronto is clearly improved. Jonas V is a player, should really help in the middle and make Bargnani more able to get out on the perimeter. Lowry is a very nice addition. Fields helps, but continues to clank wide open 3’s. DeRozan is pretty good. Toronto will be a handful for anyone when they hit 3’s like they did in the second half.

      Amare’s D and rebounding was really terrible. I hope Woodson lets him know about it and decreases his minutes if he doesn’t improve. Obviously its the first game back, so no panic yet, but man, it really stands out.

    2. danvt

      Well…

      Getting out rebounded 45-32 is not good. 5 for Stat, 6 for Melo and 3 for Chandler! That’s probably the reason for the loss. Also, their 45% from 3 point range compared to our 18%. Melo was 0-7 from there! I guess you gotta figure he makes three of those most nights.

      The Prigioni steal and the Melo adrenaline 3 point miss in the 4th quarter was the turning point of the game. Melo had success bullying his way to the basket early, which accounts for the 8-20 night despite the Starks-esque performance from deep.

      Prigioni looked good. I think he may find some minutes. Nice little back door play with J Kidd. I just love that Kidd plays for us now, though he didn’t make a difference with the game on the line.

      Felton 4-11, 4ast and 6 TO’s! Not so good but at least a couple of the turn overs were him finding Tyson or Amar’e on the P&R and them fumbling the pass.

      Bad game all around but it’s only pre season right?

    3. daJudge

      right danvt, only preseason. My issue is that Stat is not a fit at power forward. His d is pretty awful and he really doesn’t rebound much. I do not see this changing much. Please, please, please bring him off the bench as a center, second unit. Particularly if he developed some post game, but either way, he will thrive and so will the Knicks.

    4. Frank O.

      I watched last night and was reminded of when Felton used to play for the knicks.
      Whenever he faces a quick penetrating guard, he tries to play like that guard. That isn’t his game, really. He’s a good guard, but not as quick as Lowry. This is Felton’s problem,IMHO. He’s not secure in who and what he does well. Say what you want about Mark Jackson; he never tried to play the other guards’ games. He played his game and tried to impose his will that way. I cite him only because he was always a bit slower than the guards he matched up with.
      Ray hasn’t figured this out yet. He makes it into a one-on-one game with the other guard. Against Lowry and a host of other guards in the NBA, he loses that match up. He’s not a good scorer; he’s a good penetrator and passer. He has great offensive weapons.
      Don’t try to do too much.

    5. Frank O.

      Ray should not take 11 shots, and Chandler only 3.
      I was really please with Kurt Thomas’s intensity.
      I think Chris Copeland will be a nice contributor. He needs to work on his D.
      I actually thought Prigioni was flat out better than Kidd. Kidd looks rather slow and his shot is horrifying. Prigioni plays within himself,hits his shots and in 14 minutes fewer than Felton and four minutes fewer than Kidd, had more assists. I see him being the first PG option off the bench, with Kidd primarily playing the deuce.
      I also think the Knicks did a poor job freeing up Novak. With his ability, he needs to become a major weapon offensively. That means guys need to set picks and guards need to look to him.

    6. danvt

      Hey my avatar works woo hoo. Can anyone tell me how to find Knick Avatars like Ken, the animal, Bannister or something?

      Anyone think that an assist off a three point shot should only be .5 of an assist? Not that it can’t be a great pass, sometimes, but it seems like the degree of difficulty on the shot should mitigate some of the credit the passes gets for the points.

    7. StatsTeacher

      First time I have seen extended minutes from Felton (he played 30 last night). He is assuredly better than TD and Bibby.

      Zero free throws from Felton and Kidd — I think that is a problem. As Clyde said, when Melo goes cold, who’s gonna step up? Guess JR will help that. Toronto also didn’t play Gray (~2 minutes), so the rebounding issue could be even worse next matchup.

    8. danvt

      “I thought they were more aggressive than we were,’’ Woodson said. “I thought we played one good quarter. I didn’t like anything about the second, third and fourth quarter. Amar’e played pretty good. He got up and down the floor. But as a unit defensively we weren’t there today. You’re going to miss shots, but your defense has to be a constant and we weren’t there.’’

      “It felt great to get in the swing of things,’’ Stoudemire said. “I felt in better shape than I thought was. My wind was great. Unfortunately we couldn’t get a win. They made all kind of shots. They made every shot you can possibly make.’’

      Notice how Woodson talks about Amar’e and then defense “as a unit”. He doesn’t want to call out his PF but you can see the two issues are connected. Amar’e’s quote is more like “I leave guys alone like that all the time and mostly those shots don’t go in”. He’s gotta get more fouls (and not technicals). He’s got backups that can play, now. He always looks like he’s playing with 5 fouls. We also need our 4 to rebound and it looked like Valinwhatever had his number in terms of strength. I understand the calls for him to come off the bench but that doesn’t matter, IMO. He’s gonna be out there with Tyson and Melo and he’s gonna have to fit in.

      It would help, probably, if he would participate in more of these preseason games. It’s like he’s a museum piece right now. At least his shot looks crisp.

    9. yellowboy90

      danvt:
      “I thought they were more aggressive than we were,’’ Woodson said. “I thought we played one good quarter. I didn’t like anything about the second, third and fourth quarter. Amar’e played pretty good. He got up and down the floor. But as a unit defensively we weren’t there today. You’re going to miss shots, but your defense has to be a constant and we weren’t there.’’

      “It felt great to get in the swing of things,’’ Stoudemire said. “I felt in better shape than I thought was. My wind was great. Unfortunately we couldn’t get a win. They made all kind of shots. They made every shot you can possibly make.’’

      Notice how Woodson talks about Amar’e and then defense “as a unit”.He doesn’t want to call out his PF but you can see the two issues are connected.Amar’e’s quote is more like “I leave guys alone like that all the time and mostly those shots don’t go in”.He’s gotta get more fouls (and not technicals).He’s got backups that can play, now.He always looks like he’s playing with 5 fouls.We also need our 4 to rebound and it looked like Valinwhatever had his number in terms of strength.I understand the calls for him to come off the bench but that doesn’t matter, IMO.He’s gonna be out there with Tyson and Melo and he’s gonna have to fit in.

      It would help, probably, if he would participate in more of these preseason games.It’s like he’s a museum piece right now.At least his shot looks crisp.

      I do know the numbers but it seems the D always suffers when Tyson is playing a player that pulls him away from the basket. Him not being able to anchor and cover up mental lapses by players hurt.

      Like most not a fan of the switching especially with Amar’e and w/o Brewer, Shump, or Smith. I would like it more if they wouldn’t switch so easy and fight through the weaker screens.

    10. Z-man

      My guess is that switching is a preseason thing, something importane to practice and also less stressful on the body than fighting through screens. Woodson went away from swtiching last year (to be fair, MDA got away from it towards the end of his tenure.)

      I also wondered why Chandler was on Bargnani and Amare was on JV. Would seem that the other way around would be better.

    11. Z-man

      The thing about Prigioni is that he looks to be in incredible shape, kinda like a lanky, cagey welterweight boxer. Kidd just seems to be biding his time our there, he’s moving OK, which is all I care about for now. That touch pass to Novak was sweet.

    12. chrisk06811

      I’m not sure what I think about Amare coming off the bench. If he sits, who starts? Camby or thomas at the 4? Neither one of them will get guarded. Novak at the 3 and Melo at the 4? I don’t think that works either.

      JR comes off the bench, but at the end of the game, when we need our best 5, he plays. If the Amare problem is that he/ chandler play the same position, we still have that problem at the end of the game.

      I agree that Melo/Amare should not sit at the same time. Melo sits 10 mins / game, Amare 12, so that’s 22 mins where we get the advantage or not playing them together.

      I think the real issue is coach has to change Amare’s expectations, and Chandlers. No 3’s for Amare..strong to the hoop. Block shots, attempt to rebound. Maybe we only want him scoring 15 a game. Maybe he runs some P&Rs instead of Chandler?

      He’s not trade-able, and he doesn’t suck, it’s more an issue of not being a great fit and age taking away some of his explosiveness.

      I know none of this is new news. Maybe the best way to handle is to start the guy and lower our expectations. Maybe he’s simply an above average offensively / below avg defensively PF? That’s not the end of the world. It’s better than trying to make him something he’s not.

    13. ruruland

      Whoa. Looks lIke a little confirmation bias in this thread.

      Defensively, Amare was not good at all, but Chandler might have been worse.

      More importantly, it was the second or third rotation that was killing the Knicks– that is a team-wide problem that will take time to develop.

      So, Woodson wasn’t covering for Amare, he was being honest.

      James White was very poor defensively. They got more in transition than the Knicks. And so e of what they did was just unguardable shot making.

    14. daJudge

      Can’t disagree much with chrisk…I guess it’s just the type of game that I really enjoy features guys who play to the strengths of their position. BTW, I do not think Stat sucks at all. It’s very frustrating to me that he kind of sucks relative to the more important aspects of being a power forward. I also think he would absolutely school second unit Centers. Maybe having a power forward on the first unit that just gets 8-10 boards, plays tough D and doesn’t worry about scoring really would help the first unit and perhaps moot the Melo/Stat issue at the same time. Ruru-even if it were true that Chandler was worse than Stat last night, that result is quite a striking aberration.

    15. chrisk06811

      daJudge…I agree that Amare would school most backup centers, but the problem is, how many minutes a game is that? 12 – 15? some teams have defensive minded backup centers that he may have that much of an advantage against. And, who starts at PF if Amare sits? Camby would be out of position; you are taking Thomas then. As a matter of fact, if Stat takes the BU center minutes, why did we sign camby at all? And…..can stat protect the rim like Camby can? I think we are stuck.

    16. Z-man

      I think that Amare was trying our post moves as part of preseason. He made both of his mid-range shots, so that’s a good sign. He’s at his best either in the P&R or in iso when he makes guys pay for laying off of him from 15-18 feet. I would like to see him play sort of a Horace Grant-style PF (with better offense), concentrating more on rebounding and defense and less on 1-on-1 power moves, i.e. take what the defense gives him.

    17. daJudge

      chris–sorry, been out with my dog (big ass Newfie pup (80 lbs))…I know what you mean about who starts. I’m not sure, but I don’t think this formula works. If Stat is a negative defensively and rebounding- wise, someone else with that skill set should start. My view is that the other starters have the skill set that corresponds to their position. Whatever critique might be leveled against Melo, the _____shooting guard, point guard(s) and center(s), they all fit the roles they are designated to fill. One guy out of that mix can disrupt the formula. JK47….what you say is a reasonable expectation, but Stat is not IMO a power forward as traditionally understood. Forcing him in that role will only disappoint. The Knicks have depth. Maybe they should consider that and utilize players accordingly.

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