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Thursday, September 18, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Oct 12 2013)

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: DeRozan Leads Raptors Over Knicks (Sat, 12 Oct 2013 05:04:51 GMT)
    DeMar DeRozan scored 20 points to lead the Raptors to a 100-91 preseason victory over the Knicks in Andrea Bargnani’s return to Toronto.    

  • [New York Times] Raptors Beat Knicks 100-91 in Preseason (Sat, 12 Oct 2013 03:54:53 GMT)
    DeMar DeRozan scored 20 points to lead the Raptors to a 100-91 preseason victory over the New York Knicks on Friday night, spoiling Andrea Bargnani’s return to Toronto.    

  • [New York Times] Trail Blazers Beat Jazz 96-86 in Preseason (Sat, 12 Oct 2013 03:42:55 GMT)
    Damian Lillard scored 23 points and LaMarcus Aldridge added 20 to lead the Portland Trail Blazers to their first win of the preseason, 96-86 over the Utah Jazz on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] Heat Beat Bobcats 86-75 in Preseason (Sat, 12 Oct 2013 03:15:47 GMT)
    LeBron James scored 20 points and Norris Cole added 15 to give the Miami Heat an 86-75 preseason victory over the Charlotte Bobcats on Friday night at the Sprint Center.    

  • [New York Times] Cavaliers Beat Magic 110-105 in Preseason (Sat, 12 Oct 2013 02:10:19 GMT)
    Overall No. 1 draft pick Anthony Bennett scored 14 of his 16 points in the fourth quarter and Dion Waiters had 21 as the Cleveland Cavaliers rallied for a 110-105 preseason victory over the Orlando Magic on Friday night.    

  • [New York Times] 76ers Beat Celtics 97-85 in Preseason (Sat, 12 Oct 2013 01:33:53 GMT)
    Thaddeus Young had 20 points and five rebounds to lead the Philadelphia 76ers to a 97-85 preseason victory over the Boston Celtics on Friday night.    

  • [New York Daily News] Carmelo answers Bargnani hecklers in Toronto (Sat, 12 Oct 2013 05:05:53 GMT)
    Andrea Bargnani didn’t torment his former teammates. But Carmelo Anthony did. Three months after he was traded to the Knicks, Bargnani was back in Toronto on Friday with a chance to stick it to his former team.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks GM Mills says to forget about Isiah (Sat, 12 Oct 2013 04:00:26 GMT)
    Glen Grunwald was so quiet during his tenure as the Knicks’ general manager, rarely uttering a public word, that often the only way to tell he was with the club was by the deft moves he made to revamp the roster.    

  • 14 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Oct 12 2013)

    1. SeeWhyDee77

      I know it’s only the 2nd preseason game, but I’m kinda liking the Melo-Bargnani dynamic so far. Sure, they’ve got some kinks to work out but their 2 man game looks to have the making of something dangerous for opponents. It seems to me that they can get whatever they want on the court once they get going. Inside and outside..both guys interchangeable. I can’t wait to see the finished product. What I don’t like right now, however, is the starting backcourt right now. Of course it works now while JR is out..but once he gets back it may prove to be troublesome. Or..Woodson can stick to his guns and make JR earn his spot. TH2 has been refreshing so the backcourt rotation could be interesting. Unless of course this preseason starting 5 sticks and Woodson elects to go small with a 2nd unit of Udrih-Shump-JR-MWP-and a platoon of Kmart and STAT. Hmm…

    2. bockadoo

      Still don’t understand why Grunwald is out. This team seems a. Little better than last year’s – deeper with more quality players, younger, TH2 looks like a good pick… And he did this without much $ to work with. Udrih and MWP were incredible pickups for the $, Bargnani trade makes us better and gives more $ flexibility. I just don’t get it. Why would he get replaced for doing a good job?

    3. Unreason

      DRed: This article is pretty interesting as a companion piece to the Goldsberry study:

      http://www.sbnation.com/2013/10/10/4822810/lebron-james-kevin-durant-nba-scoring-metrics-hook

      Thanks for the link. Didn’t agree with much of it. The first points- ShotScore is too complex & too difficult for most people to reproduce – seem off base or odd. The second points seemed incoherent. The third point about free throws seems valid.

      It doesn’t seem too complex to me. Developing shot region specific weights from league-wide data and using them to partly account for shot difficulty isn’t conceptually or computationally complex. The next iterations of ShotScore that take more factors affecting difficulty into account (e.g. openness) could be significantly more complex depending on what they want out of the analysis.

      Openness and shot region aren’t independent of each other. If they want their analysis to estimate the independent effects of shot region and openness on scoring, valid arguments will inevitably be made for and against the approach they choose since there isn’t one right way to do that. Those arguments will make interpretation more complex.

      If they only want to take shot region and openness into account and aren’t interested in the independent effects of each, that will be a more straightforward and transparent next step.

      It’s reproducability by sport stat hobbyists doesn’t matter to me. I care if it reflects something real and important enough to take into account when measuring shooting effectiveness. This ShotScore approach is surely only one of zillions of new advanced performance measures that will be developed from newly available data. It strikes me as a logical, transparent and intuitive direction…

    4. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Unreason: I missed those conversations. After a quick search, I see they are clearly very similar.

      Still, there’s some kind of explanation for why Tyson Chandler is not a good basketball player, even though he’s ridiculously awesome at shots that other players also take but are not as awesome at.

    5. ruruland

      “Carmelo Anthony said he tore his labrum and his rotator cuff last season. Opted against surgery so he would be ready for start of season….”

    6. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Still, there’s some kind of explanation for why Tyson Chandler is not a good basketball player, even though he’s ridiculously awesome at shots that other players also take but are not as awesome at.

      He’s pretty good at shots most players take. We’ve gone over his shot efficiency by range quite a few times in response to this false claim you keep repeating.

      Do I need to post it again?

    7. DRed

      Unreason: Thanks for the link. Didn’t agree with much of it. The first points- ShotScore is too complex & too difficult for most people to reproduce – seem off base or odd. The second points seemed incoherent. The third point about free throws seems valid.

      Yeah, point one strikes me as being irrelevant. Point 2 strikes me as a valid criticism. If you are better than average at taking low efficiency shots it’s certainly a useful skill. After all, not every possession is going to end in a dunk or an open 3. But there are also obviously times when a player takes lower efficiency shot when they shouldn’t, either because a better shot is actually available or because there’s still time left on the shot clock to find a better one. You don’t want Chris Bosh taking a 19 foot jumper with 18 seconds left on the shot clock, even though he’s better than average at it, because there’s still plenty of time left for someone else to take a more efficient one.

    8. JK47

      I’m no fan of Andrea Bargnani by a long shot. In fact, I think he’s probably going to be a bad player for the Knicks. I think his game is soft, his basketball IQ is atrocious and in general his hangdog demeanor and slumped body language is that of… well, not to be harsh, but kind of a loser.

      But even I have to admit that in a good year Bargnani could probably put up production that isn’t far off from, say, Hedo Turkoglu– .550ish TS%, single-digit TRB%, .360-.380 3PT%, 4 to 5 FTA per 36. In a breakout, career year maybe he could even do a little bit better than that. If you’re relying on him to be a rim protector and to rebound the basketball you’re pretty much screwed, but if you’re using him as a secondary scoring option who can spread the floor a little bit maybe he won’t kill you. Maybe.

    9. Unreason

      DRed: Point 2 strikes me as a valid criticism.

      That surprises me.
      To me, his points in section 2 indicate a clear misunderstanding of what ShotScore measures. And even given that misunderstanding, his discussion seems incoherent.

      He makes statements which indicate that he thinks ShotScore has a proscriptive intent. I.e. that it tries but fails to reward players for taking higher yield shots. E.g. he questions the “value in being a better shooter than the next guy on 16-23 footers on the right side if that shot is still one of the least efficient in your repertoire”. He hyperbolically states that making low percentage shots has “no actual scoring value at [sic] the team”. etc.

      ShotScore isn’t tyring to reward some shots more than others. It is only trying to measure shot making ability better than standard metics by accounting for one aspect of shot difficulty – location.

      The whole subsequent discussion is based on this misunderstanding. He battles a made up “pro-jumper argument” that no one has put forth and insinuates that ShotScore is promoting this idea to the detriment of a truer understanding of the value of high efficiency shots. An understanding that he and his alternative metric – Extra Field Points – can allegedly elucidate.

      Then he ventures into KBer heartland. He tries to describe the superiority of Extra Field Points over ShotScore in measuring and rewarding the value of super efficient guys that stick to high % shots near the rim vs. guys that also shoot from mid-range.

      His description of this seems especially confused and vacuous: “The capacity to expand the paint-only player’s shot frequency is highly limited… Tyson Chandler cannot take 20 shots per game and maintain [his] excellent efficiency. That’s absolute true. But Extra Field Points addresses that by incorporating shot frequency just as ShotScore does.”…

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