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Friday, October 24, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Mar 16 2013)

  • [New York Times] Sue Bird Upbeat Despite Needing Another Surgery (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 07:47:57 GMT)
    Sue Bird is no stranger to surgeries. She’ll have her fourth in six years in early May to remove a cyst from her right knee.

  • [New York Times] Bryant Leaves Early, but Lakers Beat Pacers 99-93 (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 07:39:06 GMT)
    When Kobe Bryant’s playing days end, perhaps he has a future in coaching.

  • [New York Times] Heat Win 21st Straight, Beat Bucks 107-94 (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 07:38:58 GMT)
    Whether this winning streak for the Miami Heat ends with the NBA record or not, Chris Bosh is certain of one thing.

  • [New York Times] Denver Beats Memphis 87-80 for 11th Straight Win (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 05:11:46 GMT)
    The Denver Nuggets plodded along for three quarters before beating Memphis at its own game.

  • [New York Times] Bulls Blitz Warriors in Impressive Rout, 113-95 (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 05:05:38 GMT)
    Luol Deng scored 23 points, Carlos Boozer had 21 points and nine rebounds, and the Chicago Bulls bounced back from their most lopsided loss of the season to whip the Golden State Warriors 113-95 on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Kobe Bryant Returns Against Pacers Despite Ankle Sprain (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 03:50:17 GMT)
    With a win against the Bucks in Milwaukee, the Miami Heat increased their win streak to 21, remaining unbeaten since Feb. 1.

  • [New York Times] Durant, Westbrook Lead Thunder Past Magic, 117-104 (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 03:45:00 GMT)
    Kevin Durant scored 26 points and Russell Westbrook added 23 to help the Oklahoma City Thunder keep up their dominant play at home with a 117-104 victory over the Orlando Magic on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Bench Helps Mavs Beat Cavs 96-86 (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 03:32:34 GMT)
    Rodrigue Beaubois scored 18 points off the bench and keyed a fourth-quarter run to lead the Dallas Mavericks past the Cleveland Cavaliers, 96-86 on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Bryant Leaves Early, but Lakers Beat Pacers 99-93 (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 03:23:48 GMT)
    When Kobe Bryant couldn’t be the tough guy on the court Friday night, he resorted to being an MVP coach.

  • [New York Times] Harden, Lin Rally Rockets Past Minnesota (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 02:41:34 GMT)
    James Harden scored 37 points, Jeremy Lin had 24 and the Houston Rockets rallied from 20 points down in the third quarter to beat the Minnesota Timberwolves 108-100 on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Knicks and Nets Won’t Meet Again, but Race Is On (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 02:19:42 GMT)
    The Knicks’ slump has given the Nets new hope in their pursuit of the Atlantic Division title, and the ensuing playoff advantages.

  • [New York Times] Smith Has Double-Double, Hawks Beat Suns, 107-94 (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 02:11:53 GMT)
    Josh Smith made a strong return to Atlanta’s lineup with 17 points, 11 rebounds and seven assists, and the Hawks led by double figures throughout the final period of their 107-94 victory over the Phoenix Suns on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Johnson Has 21 Rebounds as Raptors Beat Bobcats (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 01:47:44 GMT)
    Rudy Gay scored 28 points, Amir Johnson had 12 points and a career-high 21 rebounds, and the Toronto Raptors beat the Charlotte Bobcats 92-78 on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Wall Has Season-High 29; Wizards Top Hornets 96-87 (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 01:29:50 GMT)
    John Wall put on a rare shooting show Friday night, scoring a season-high 29 points and matching his career high with three 3-pointers as the Washington Wizards ran their home winning streak to four with a 96-87 victory over the New Orleans Hornets.

  • [New York Daily News] Wounded Knicks brought to knees (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 03:58:23 GMT)
    The hope, however far-fetched, is that both Carmelo Anthony and Tyson Chandler will be available for Sunday’s game against the Clippers.

  • [New York Post] Carmelo Anthony must heal up for Knicks to have deep NBA playoff run (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 05:07:29 -0500)
    LOS ANGELES â?? They should know better by now, know better than anyone, in fact, how fragile a basketball season can be. And that doesn’t even account for the various ligaments, cartilages and joints presently afflicted in the M*A*S*H triage unit that also goes by the pseudonym…

  • [New York Post] Anthony to test knee today in L.A. (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 03:13:27 -0500)
    LOS ANGELES â?? Carmelo Anthony leads the Knicks in frequent-flier miles on this nightmare West Coast trip, but is almost last in shooting percentage.
    Perhaps Anthony will get a chance to improve that 7-of-27 Western ledger. He rejoined the reeling Knicks Friday, will try to practice Saturday and hasn’t ruled…

  • [New York Post] West on radar as PG play disappoints (Sat, 16 Mar 2013 00:45:51 -0500)
    LOS ANGELES â?? The Knicks aren’t that desperate yet, but will be one of the teams monitoring the progress of mercurial point guard Delonte West, expected to make his D-League debut tonight when the Texas Legends host the Santa Cruz Warriors.West is a super talent and super headache, but…

  • 66 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Mar 16 2013)

    1. EB

      Two days off in a row?!?! Is the season over or something? We really need a damn rest not just with all the injuries and all the old guys either. I think any team would be exhausted after the number of games we’ve played.

    2. jon abbey

      we have played the least games of anyone in the entire league currently (tied with Minnesota).

    3. jon abbey

      but I do agree and have been saying for years that the regular season should be 70 games max, 82 plus two months of playoffs is just too wearing on the players.

    4. knicknyk

      I don’t know if it has been said before on this board but am I the only person that thinks it is laughably ironic that the Knicks are still looking for a PG. Like does anybody else see the humour in that or is it just me? Like we could have had Lin, had Kidd, had Prigs & had Felton but we chose differently. And in the long run we STILL end up needing to upgrade the PG position. And where are all the people that were saying Felton is a better defender than Lin? I was one of the few people that said last summer that wasn’t the case. Do people see the truth now.

    5. EB

      We haven’t had two consecutive days off this month and have had 3 sets of back to back games

      jon abbey:
      we have played the least games of anyone in the entire league currently (tied with Minnesota).

    6. chrisk06811

      I’m not sure what you are saying. When I became a fan, our PG was Edmund Sherrod, and we’ve been stocked at PG ever since.

    7. JC Knickfan

      Since we are playing this game.
      My college roommates took me to my first Knicks’ game and I’ve follow them every since. Mark Jackson was the starter that year.

    8. jon abbey

      knicknyk:
      I don’t know if it has been said before on this board but am I the only person that thinks it is laughably ironic that the Knicks are still looking for a PG. Like does anybody else see the humour in that or is it just me? Like we could have had Lin, had Kidd, had Prigs & had Felton but we chose differently. And in the long run we STILL end up needing to upgrade the PG position. And where are all the people that were saying Felton is a better defender than Lin? I was one of the few people that said last summer that wasn’t the case. Do people see the truth now.

      we would still need to upgrade the PG position if we had Lin/Kidd/Prigioni, I don’t think Felton would have come if Lin was coming back. if Lin is better than Felton, it’s not by much, and either one is the inferior PG starter in most games.

    9. yellowboy90

      jon abbey: we would still need to upgrade the PG position if we had Lin/Kidd/Prigioni, I don’t think Felton would have come if Lin was coming back. if Lin is better than Felton, it’s not by much, and either one is the inferior PG starter in most games.

      So are you trying to tell me that Houston picked up Aaron Brooks for a reason? :)

    10. ess-dog

      Jeez, how fucked are we next year?
      Assuming Melo is now a pf for good, who plays sf? The sf free agency crop is pretty terrible. Chandler Parsons anyone?
      Oh wait, we have no cap space.
      Well, we have a draft pick right?
      So we’re gonna start: Felton, Shump, X, Melo, Chandler with A’mare, Kidd, JR and garbage off the bench.
      Maybe we can trade Novak for something useful. Camby might help if he’s ever healthy.
      Not gonna cut it…

    11. chrisk06811

      ess-dog:
      Jeez, how fucked are we next year?
      Assuming Melo is now a pf for good, who plays sf? The sf free agency crop is pretty terrible. Chandler Parsons anyone?
      Oh wait, we have no cap space.
      Well, we have a draft pick right?
      So we’re gonna start: Felton, Shump, X, Melo, Chandler with A’mare, Kidd, JR and garbage off the bench.
      Maybe we can trade Novak for something useful. Camby might help if he’s ever healthy.
      Not gonna cut it…

      Ess…..I don’t think so. If the X-Man was available, he’d be here now, instead of martin or thomas

    12. jon abbey

      Brian Cronin:
      Indiana slightly trailing against Philadelphia. How awesome would them losing be?

      NY ending up as the #2 seed is about as likely as me being the next Pope.

    13. knicknyk

      jon abbey: we would still need to upgrade the PG position if we had Lin/Kidd/Prigioni, I don’t think Felton would have come if Lin was coming back. if Lin is better than Felton, it’s not by much, and either one is the inferior PG starter in most games.

      Lin is better than Felton on so many levels I don’t even know where to start. Lin is better defensively which is honestly what this team needs more than anything a PG that can actually play defense & has a modicum of athleticism. And we could have traded him to better this team with the terrible future prospects. And where else would Felton have gone? No other team would have given him the contract we did? Dallas wouldn’t have paid him that much money. Darren Collison is better than Ray & how much money did Dallas give Collison. Even if Felton didn’t come Lin is a lot more tradable than Felton. Name me a NBA team that Felton could start for aside from the Knicks? Maybe Dallas or Utah but that I doubt.

      THis is all besides the point. The fact that the knicks still need to upgrade the PG position & have so few assets to better the situation drives me crazy.

    14. Owen

      It’s the four years that bothers me about the Felton deal. It’s 3.5 for 4 right?

      For a below average starting point guard is that a gross overpay?

    15. sean joh

      Owen:
      It’s the four years that bothers me about the Felton deal. It’s 3.5 for 4 right?

      For a below average starting point guard is that a gross overpay?

      it’s like knicks buying the dead stocks~

    16. knicknyk

      Owen:
      It’s the four years that bothers me about the Felton deal. It’s 3.5 for 4 right?

      For a below average starting point guard is that a gross overpay?

      He isn’t even a starting PG. He would be a good back up PG. So yes we did overpay for essentially a back up PG. And the Knicks are still looking to upgrade the PG spot. It is laughably ironic.

    17. Juany8

      knicknyk: Lin is better than Felton on so many levels I don’t even know where to start. Lin is better defensively which is honestly what this team needs more than anything a PG that can actually play defense & has a modicum of athleticism. And we could have traded him to better this team with the terrible future prospects.And where else would Felton have gone? No other team would have given him the contract we did? Dallas wouldn’t have paid him that much money. Darren Collison is better than Ray & how much money did Dallas give Collison. Even if Felton didn’t come Lin is a lot more tradable than Felton. Name me a NBA team that Felton could start for aside from the Knicks? Maybe Dallas or Utah but that I doubt.

      THis is all besides the point. The fact that the knicks still need to upgrade the PG position & have so few assets to better the situation drives me crazy.

      It’s amazing that you think trading a fairly crappy point guard making little money like Felton for a slightly less crappy point guard (seriously, Houston picked up Brooks for a reason) that makes 3 times the amount of money isn’t particularly smart. The truth is, Felton is worth the mini mid level and Jeremy Lin is worth what Felton is currently getting. Neither is giving this team what it really needs, which is more than anything for Kidd to come back from the dead and for everyone else to get healthy. Either way there are far more glaring needs, there are no backups for Chandler, Melo, JR, or Felton right now that can play at a competent level. Also it would help if Chandler or Melo were actually playing, and if they were playing consistently hard when they did.

    18. knicknyk

      The Knicks are just a SF & a PG away from beign true contenders. A SF like Parsons or Delfino that can defend or hit 3’s is ideal. Also a PG that can defend & is consistent offensively as well. Kyle Lowry is that perfect PG who I wanted last year but that ship has sailed now that Houston traded him to Toronto. Jose Calderon is a decent fit, but he isn’t good defensively unfortunately. But he is crazy consistent offensively runs a very effective low turnover offense. Not sure if the Knicks have the money for Calderon.

    19. knicknyk

      Juany8: It’s amazing that you think trading a fairly crappy point guard making little money like Felton for a slightly less crappy point guard (seriously, Houston picked up Brooks for a reason) that makes 3 times the amount of money isn’t particularly smart. The truth is, Felton is worth the mini mid level and Jeremy Lin is worth what Felton is currently getting. Neither is giving this team what it really needs, which is more than anything for Kidd to come back from the dead and for everyone else to get healthy. Either way there are far more glaring needs, there are no backups for Chandler, Melo, JR, or Felton right now that can play at a competent level. Also it would help if Chandler or Melo were actually playing, and if they were playing consistently hard when they did.

      Bwahahahaha You expect me to believe that Brooks is threatening Lins position as the starter? Seriously. Aaron Brooks who has played like what 5 minutes of basketball for the Rockets in the weeks he has been there?

      So I am seriously the only person who thinks that Lin is a significant upgrade over Felton in almost every category aside from Felton being less turnover prone & a better shooter from 3. Felton isn’t a starting PG Lin is. That is all I need to know about the situation. Felton is an inferior passer, defender, athlete, decision maker, PNR ball handler, finisher at the rim, penetrator the list is extensive. The critiscm about Lin was that he couldn’t defend (welp yall were wrong). Then they said he was a high USG PG (welp Lins USG is Houston is lower than Rays & he is still the better player). Lin in Feltons role would be a 15 & 7 guy.

      Honestly the Knicks desperately need a starting PG. Doesn’t have to be Lin but it has to be somebody. And I find it laughable & irksome that the Knicks still do not have one after all this drama over the last several years to find one.

    20. Brian Cronin

      Hey, you know I thought that the decision to dump Lin was indefensible, but whatever, what’s done is done, no use crying over the spilled milk.

      Might as well think of how they still can improve rather than point out their previous mistakes, especially since they’ve made so many mistakes over the last decade or so that they all sort of merge together. I’ve gotten over the Eddy Curry deal, so I can get over anything.

      That said, yeah, the Aaron Brooks argument is weird to me, too. The Rockets picked up a guy who had played really well for them at one point in the past for basically no money to possibly be their back-up point guard. Remember, their back-up point guard right now is Patrick Beverley. Since they’ve gotten Brooks, he’s played once in five games and it was five minutes in a blowout. It says way more about what they think about A. Beverley (they want to see if Brooks would be a better back-up than Beverley) and B. Brooks (they have enough faith in him from having him on the team earlier that they feel he might still be able to contribute) than it says anything about what they think about Lin.

    21. BigBlueAL

      I think its pretty universally accepted here that letting Lin go for nothing was a huge mistake by the Knicks. But lets not kid ourselves, Lin isnt exactly having a very good season. Better than Felton?? Without a doubt, but is that worth the contract he is making now compared to Felton especially in 2014-2015?? I dunno.

      Again Id much rather have Lin than Felton and still wish the Knicks wouldve matched his contract sheet but its not like Lin is making it look like the disastrous decision many here said it was by his play this season. To be honest Ive been pretty disappointed by the lack of improvement in Lin’s play this season and you cant use Harden as an excuse because it wouldnt be that much different here playing with Melo (in terms of Lin having to play with a high usage player who needs the ball alot in his hands).

      At this moment Im bracing for the overreaction in the NY papers when the Knicks most likely lose these next 2 games (assuming Chandler and Melo dont play) and the Nets possibly win their next 2 games and take over 1st place in the Atlantic Division although I predict it will be very short lived. Amazingly with the way Indiana has played lately I think the 2 seed is very much back into play for the Knicks again as long as Melo and Chandler are ready to play when they return home on Wed.

    22. knicknyk

      Brian Cronin:
      Hey, you know I thought that the decision to dump Lin was indefensible, but whatever, what’s done is done, no use crying over the spilled milk.

      Might as well think of how they still can improve rather than point out their previous mistakes, especially since they’ve made so many mistakes over the last decade or so that they all sort of merge together. I’ve gotten over the Eddy Curry deal, so I can get over anything.

      I am still not over using the amnesty on Chauncey. It just really bothers me loosing assets for nothing particularly if you are a team like the Knicks with there financial situation. A “win now” team with Raymond Felton as there starting PG. That is an oxymoron.

    23. Z

      knicknyk:

      So I am seriously the only person who thinks that Lin is a significant upgrade over Felton

      No, not the only person.

      I’ve gotten over the ridiculous “swap” by truly not caring about any Dolan-run entity, but I haven’t really overcome the idiocy of the whole affair (sorry BC!). Age and “rootability” aside, it seems the Knicks really could use a body to take over when the superstars are out, and, well, Linsanity proved there was reason for hope even in the darkest of times…

    24. knicknyk

      BigBlueAL:
      I think its pretty universally accepted here that letting Lin go for nothing was a huge mistake by the Knicks.But lets not kid ourselves, Lin isnt exactly having a very good season.Better than Felton??Without a doubt, but is that worth the contract he is making now compared to Felton especially in 2014-2015??I dunno.

      Again Id much rather have Lin than Felton and still wish the Knicks wouldve matched his contract sheet but its not like Lin is making it look like the disastrous decision many here said it was by his play this season.To be honest Ive been pretty disappointed by the lack of improvement in Lin’s play this season and you cant use Harden as an excuse because it wouldnt be that much different here playing with Melo (in terms of Lin having to play with a high usage player who needs the ball alot in his hands).

      At this moment Im bracing for the overreaction in the NY papers when the Knicks most likely lose these next 2 games (assuming Chandler and Melo dont play) and the Nets possibly win their next 2 games and take over 1st place in the Atlantic Division although I predict it will be very short lived.Amazingly with the way Indiana has played lately I think the 2 seed is very much back into play for the Knicks again as long as Melo and Chandler are ready to play when they return home on Wed.

      How has he not improved? He is a much better passer & defender. He is less turnover prone & his transition game is way better than last year & so is his PNR game. His ball handling has improved as well. This is just off the top of my head. And Harden & Melo are nothing alike. Harden & Lin are both terrific PNR Ball handler’s that is the overlap. Melo doesn’t dominate PNR ball handling duties like harden does. Lin on this Knicks team with Feltons %time as the PNR ball handler (twice as much as Lins) & Feltons FGA is a 15 & 7 guy. He is…

    25. jon abbey

      knicknyk: I am still not over using the amnesty on Chauncey.

      yeah, now you need to just stop talking. Billups is a trillion years old, has barely played since being released, and NY used that cap space to sign Chandler. while I do agree that it was nice to very temporarily have a PG who had a purpose every time he dribbled the ball, amnestying Billups may actually have been the best move NY has made in a decade or two, even factoring in that they then couldn’t use it for Amar’e.

    26. Z

      I think he probably meant he’s still not over using it on Billups, who’s expired by now, instead of, I don’t know, Amar’e?

    27. BigBlueAL

      knicknyk: How has he not improved? He is a much better passer & defender. He is less turnover prone & his transition game is way better than last year & so is his PNR game. His ball handling has improvedas well. This is just off the top of my head. And Harden & Melo are nothing alike. Harden & Lin are both terrific PNR Ball handler’s that is the overlap. Melo doesn’t dominate PNR ball handling duties like harden does. Lin on this Knicks team with Feltons %time as the PNR ball handler (twice as much as Lins) & Feltons FGA is a 15 & 7 guy. He is…

      His numbers are virtually down or the same across the board from last season. Im not just talking about his counting stats which obviously could be attributed to his lower usage (which has alot to do with his lower turnover rate I assume).

      Lower TS%, lower REB%, lower Asst%, lower Stl%, much lower WS/48. His overall FG% is lower, 3pt% slightly better yet still below 33%, FT% slightly lower while getting to the line much less frequently than last season. You say he is a much better defender yet his D rating is much worse this season than last and he was getting benched frequently late in games earlier this season because of his defense.

      Im not arguing he isnt better than Felton because he certainly is and he is much younger so there is still the hope he improves but you may say he is a much better player this season but the numbers say he is actually playing worse this season.

      Also amnestying Billups for Chandler was a great move. Only downside of using the amnesty for Billups was they cant use it now on Amar’e but you cant argue with the reason they amnestied Billups which was to sign Chandler out of nowhere.

    28. jon abbey

      Z:
      I think he probably meant he’s still not over using it on Billups, who’s expired by now, instead of, I don’t know, Amar’e?

      which is great, except we wouldn’t have Chandler now.

    29. jon abbey

      I haven’t seen Lin a huge amount this year, but I’m under the impression he did what I said he needed to do this past summer, which is drastically change his game so he didn’t draw nearly so much contact, modeling himself after Tony Parker. this has hurt his effectiveness but allowed him to stay healthy.

    30. Owen

      I think that’s right Jon. His style of play during Linsanity wasn’t sustainable, as well as the results. But it was awesome…..

      We will always have Linsanity….

    31. knicknyk

      BigBlueAL: His numbers are virtually down or the same across the board from last season.Im not just talking about his counting stats which obviously could be attributed to his lower usage (which has alot to do with his lower turnover rate I assume).

      Lower TS%, lower REB%, lower Asst%, lower Stl%, much lower WS/48.His overall FG% is lower, 3pt% slightly better yet still below 33%, FT% slightly lower while getting to the line much less frequently than last season.You say he is a much better defender yet his D rating is much worse this season than last and he was getting benched frequently late in games earlier this season because of his defense.

      Im not arguing he isnt better than Felton because he certainly is and he is much younger so there is still the hope he improves but you may say he is a much better player this season but the numbers say he is actually playing worse this season.

      Also amnestying Billups for Chandler was a great move.Only downside of using the amnesty for Billups was they cant use it now on Amar’e but you cant argue with the reason they amnestied Billups which was to sign Chandler out of nowhere.

      Like you said lower USG is the main reason. But the lower USG has nothing to do with the lower turnovers becuase the major reason why he was turnover prone last year was because he was an awful transition player. He nearly led the league in turnovers in transition. Like I said his transition game has improved significantly this season less turnovers. Daryl Morey & Kevin McHale have openly praised him about his defense. Morey called it Kyle Lowry like (who everybody acknowledges is a good defender) & McHale praised him & Omer for his defense this season. He was getting benched if anything because of his sub 30 3PT shooting%. All the improvements I listed still stand.

    32. knicknyk

      jon abbey: which is great, except we wouldn’t have Chandler now.

      That was exactly what I mean’t. Not being able to use the amnesty on Amare.
      Serious question is Tyson Chandler worth not being able to use the amnesty on Amare’s contract? Like Amare’s deal is the reason why this team’s prospects are so low. Who will trade for a guy who had to have two knee surgery’s in one season & there body’s can’t even handle a bench role. I love Tyson & this is no insult to him. Just wondering

    33. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, in retrospect, it certainly seems that it would have made more sense to amnesty Amar’e instead of Billups. But that’s just in retrospect, of course.

      Billups
      Shump
      Fields
      Melo
      Chandler

      with a bench of…

      TDDWTDD
      Baron Davis (when he recovered)
      Bill Walker
      Jared Jeffries
      Josh Harrelson
      Ronny Turiaf (getting rid of STAT would have given them enough cap room to keep ol’ Beardy)
      Steve Novak
      Renaldo Balkman (until JR Smith became available)

      That’d be a solid enough team. Probably end up where they ended up anyways (#6/7 seed).

      And then they’d have Billips’ cap room to sign someone else for this season (plus they’d have the full MLE, I believe). I dunno who was available.

      But again, that’s just all hindsight. The outcry over them amnestying Amar’e would be nuts. They’d never do it (unless he got hurt again, of course).

    34. jon abbey

      “Serious question is Tyson Chandler worth not being able to use the amnesty on Amare’s contract? ”

      yes.

      “Like Amare’s deal is the reason why this team’s prospects are so low. ”

      no.

    35. Brian Cronin

      By the way, it is pretty darn hilarious that the Knicks have only five guys on the current team who began last season with the team!

      Melo, STAT, Chandler, Shump and Novak.

      Hell, only six who played on last year’s team at all!

      Really makes you wonder how they had all of that roster space and yet the best they could come up with was Cope, White and THomas for the back of their bench.

    36. ruruland

      Half a game out of second in the east and $40 million has been on the bench more than 40 games. Find me a few examples of a team contending with that kind of injury situation to that significant part of the payroll.

    37. Juany8

      Brian Cronin:
      Hey, you know I thought that the decision to dump Lin was indefensible, but whatever, what’s done is done, no use crying over the spilled milk.

      Might as well think of how they still can improve rather than point out their previous mistakes, especially since they’ve made so many mistakes over the last decade or so that they all sort of merge together. I’ve gotten over the Eddy Curry deal, so I can get over anything.

      That said, yeah, the Aaron Brooks argument is weird to me, too. The Rockets picked up a guy who had played really well for them at one point in the past for basically no money to possibly be their back-up point guard. Remember, their back-up point guard right now is Patrick Beverley. Since they’ve gotten Brooks, he’s played once in five games and it was five minutes in a blowout. It says way more about what they think about A. Beverley (they want to see if Brooks would be a better back-up than Beverley) and B. Brooks (they have enough faith in him from having him on the team earlier that they feel he might still be able to contribute) than it says anything about what they think about Lin.

      I thought it was indefensible when I thought the Knicks were going to have both Lin and Felton, when picking one or the other it’s much harder to say which is right. Lin is a better player, but not by enough that trading him for Felton would make this team’s prospects any better. Lin’s simply not worth the contract he’s getting and I think part of the reason he got it in the first place is because Morey wasn’t sure he would get Harden. As far as the Brooks thing, considering both Beverly and Toney Douglas have gotten crunch time minutes for the Rockets this year, I’d say the Rockets are kicking the tires on point guards who could play well off Harden for extended periods. Rockets still better with Lin off the court…

    38. ruruland

      They’re also better with Harden off the court, fwiw. Speaking strictly in basketball terms, it’s very challenging to argue that not signing Lin was a good move.

      Overpaid in a couple years? That’s definitely possible.

      Does he run the pick and roll as cleanly as Felton does, in terms of taking direct angles to the basket and making quick passes when he sees converging defenders? I don’t think so, but i also think Lin’s pick and roll play has improved this year.

      He’s not finishing like he did last year, which was sort of expected, but he would have brought a transition element to the Knicks that they don’t really have now, because he is really fast in the open floor, and he gets to the line more than Felton.

      All the chemistry stuff and Melo talk was all pure rubbish. Anyone who thinks Melo doesn’t want help is an absolute imbecile.

      Were some of the guys a little jealous of the attention Lin got and the ego he kind of developed in a really short period? Of course.

      Are those things rare in locker rooms? Of course not.

      Guys that can play and go to battle are guys that everyone wants to play with.

      To me, Raymond Felton is a motor player, like a Kenyon Martin of point guards. When he is in attack mode he’s very effective. But he simply isn’t genetically capable of being in that mode for 30 minutes a game.

      I think Lin is the same way, which is why having both of them to split 48 minutes really could have been ideal.

      I really don’t think there’s much merit to debating those facts anymore. I was with most people in saying signing Lin from a basketball perspective was a no-brainer.

      Who knows how much politics from the very top played a role in all of this…….

      Here’s my thing: Delonte West might be a better player than Lin when he’s right and the Knicks could and should sign him.

      But who wants to talk about that? Is he any more a “mercenary” than Lin was (the shotgun/motorcycle imagery is not lost on me right…

    39. Darrell H.

      knicknyk: Bwahahahaha You expect me to believe that Brooks is threatening Lins position as the starter? Seriously. Aaron Brooks who has played like what 5 minutes of basketball for the Rockets in the weeks he has been there?

      So I am seriously the only person who thinks that Lin is a significant upgrade over Felton in almost every category aside from Felton being less turnover prone & a better shooter from 3. Felton isn’t a starting PG Lin is. That is all I need to know about the situation. Felton is an inferior passer, defender, athlete, decision maker, PNR ball handler, finisher at the rim, penetrator the list is extensive. The critiscm about Lin was that he couldn’t defend (welp yall were wrong). Then they said he was a high USG PG (welp Lins USG is Houston is lower than Rays & he is still the better player). Lin in Feltons role would be a 15 & 7 guy.

      Honestly the Knicks desperately need a starting PG. Doesn’t have to be Lin but it has to be somebody. And I find it laughable & irksome that the Knicks still do not have one after all this drama over the last several years to find one.

      Felton is a much better drive and kick point guard. Lin drives with blinders on always looking to score.

      Felton is also a much better PnR point guard.

      I’ll give Lin the nod on finishing at the rim (although everything still looks like a heave to me).

      Felton is a much better ball handler than Lin.

      Lin is horrendous on the defensive end. All teams do is run him into picks which he appears to NEVER be able to see. Felton has sucked on D since he returned from injury so I’d call this a wash. Lin has better hands though.

      Lin is a better athlete with his combination of size and quickness.

      Felton has the better contract.

      Lin will be a backup PG in the next couple of years as will Felton. Basically, if I were GM, I’d…

    40. d-mar

      So today’s topic during this Knicks slump is the inevitable rehashing of the Lin non-signing (as opposed to Friday’s inevitable rehashing of the Melo trade). I just want a Lin supporter to tell me what they think the Knicks record would be right now if you swapped Lin for Felton this season (and assume Lin misses a bunch of games like Felton did) Do you honestly think we’d be that much better off? Which games in particular do you think Lin would have been the difference between a loss and a win?

      Just wondering.

    41. bobneptune

      Juany8: I thought it was indefensible when I thought the Knicks were going to have both Lin and Felton, when picking one or the other it’s much harder to say which is right.

      Not really:

      R Felton 20,299 minutes played WS/48 = .67

      J Lin 3367 minutes played WS/48 = .108

      and I’m guessing the guy who had a total of 1300 minutes played coming into this season has a bigger up side.

    42. jon abbey

      bobneptune: Not really:

      R Felton 20,299 minutes played WS/48 = .67

      J Lin3367 minutes playedWS/48 = .108

      and I’m guessing the guy who had a total of 1300 minutes played coming into this season has a bigger up side.

      wow, is that misleading. not sure what Felton’s first few subpar seasons have to do with anything, just as I’m not sure what Linsanity has to do with anything. as we discussed above, Lin’s style in NY was physically unsustainable, which he was smart enough to understand and change to a less productive but safer way of playing.

    43. bobneptune

      d-mar:
      So today’s topic during this Knicks slump is the inevitable rehashing of the Lin non-signing (as opposed to Friday’s inevitable rehashing of the Melo trade). I just want a Lin supporter to tell me what they think the Knicks record would be right now if you swapped Lin for Felton this season (and assume Lin misses a bunch of games like Felton did) Do you honestly think we’d be that much better off? Which games in particular do you think Lin would have been the difference between a loss and a win?

      Just wondering.

      yeah, you are right… they’d probably be worse because Melo wouldn’t play nice with Lin and sabotage the offense, just like last year :-)

    44. bobneptune

      jon abbey: wow, is that misleading. not sure what Felton’s first few subpar seasons have to do with anything, just as I’m not sure what Linsanity has to do with anything. as we discussed above, Lin’s style in NY was physically unsustainable, which he was smart enough to understand and change to a less productive but safer way of playing.

      Seriously, Jon? How is that misleading?

      Felton’s WS/48 for career = .067

      Felton’s WS/48 this season = .066 !

      Felton is a well below average NBA player for his career and this season. Lin is statistically average with about a full season under his belt for his career and this season.

      Facts are damn nasty things.

    45. Owen

      I do think Melo and Lin are incompatible. It’s not really a question of help. The Lin of Linsanity had a usage rate over 30. You can’t field two 30+ usage players on the same team.

      And Ruru, it didn’t look good with Melo and Lin. It just didn’t. Melo looked like he wanted the ball all the time. Lin looked lost, he looked like he wasn’t following his instincts, which are to score and dominate the ball. Instead he was trying to keep everyone happy.

      I think Lin is better and will be better. But it’s a small difference in production in the end. Maybe we win another game in a season because of Lin?

      I just think if I were in Knicks mgmt, and i was looking at spending essentially another 30-40 million for at best 5-6 more wins spread over 3 seasons, I probably would have blanched too.

    46. jon abbey

      bobneptune: Seriously, Jon? How is that misleading?

      Felton’s WS/48 for career = .067

      Felton’s WS/48 this season = .066 !

      Felton is a well below average NBA player for his career and this season. Lin is statistically average with about a full season under his belt for his career and this season.

      Facts are damn nasty things.

      you’re grouping together wildly different scenarios/situations for both players, look at it year by year. Lin isn’t as good as his numbers from last year look, and Felton isn’t as bad as his first few seasons or last year make him look.

      but again, NEITHER OF THEM IS VERY GOOD, SO WHO CARES?

    47. max fisher-cohen

      I’ll agree that the Lin connection is more emotional than logical. There was the excitement of Linsanity, but also I think it was the irony that gave it that emotional punch: For a decade of crappy basketball, the one thing it seemed you could count on from Knick ownership/management was that they would SPEND any amount on players even if those players were only marginal upgrades. In the past, this was really stupid since the Knicks really needed to be creating cap space so as to sign players who were actually good.

      However, now that the Knicks were already in a situation where they were decent enough to at least imagine they had some kind of playoff run in them and clearly capped out regardless of whether they signed Lin, they opted to go with the cheaper option.

      And if you think in terms of just cap space and not luxury tax stuff, Lin’s contract is actually BETTER for NY than Felton’s. How bad will Felton be in 2015, when he’s 31? Most PGs fall off the map quickly after at around 30, and Felton doesn’t offer much to begin with yet we’ll be stuck paying him $4.5m in 2015/16 whereas Lin’s contract will have expired.

      I also think there was and continues to BE good reason to hope that Lin will get significantly better, especially if you look at MP instead of straight up age. Lin still has played only about one season’s worth of NBA minutes in his career. Those first 2 seasons are usually when players grow the most, so Lin still has another 2500 minutes or so of NBA PT wherein he is likely to get better. He may NOT get better. That’s true. However, that’s the truth for any young player. That doesn’t mean you give up on them in advance.

    48. bobneptune

      jon abbey: out

      Felton WS/48 this season = .066

      Lin WS/48 this season = .099

      If that is a trivial difference, then I don’t know what to say.

    49. Z

      ruruland: All the chemistry stuff and Melo talk was all pure rubbish. Anyone who thinks Melo doesn’t want help is an absolute imbecile.

      It may not be accurate, but I don’t think it’s imbecilic to draw that conclusion. We don’t all know Carmelo as well as you do. To the layman, especially in the Lin/D’Antoni v Carmelo Anthony context, Anthony came across as a selfish and unlikable figure. Maybe that interpretation is wrong, but just because you call it imbecilic doesn’t make it go away.

    50. Z

      d-mar:
      I just want a Lin supporter to tell me what they think the Knicks record would be right now if you swapped Lin for Felton this season (and assume Lin misses a bunch of games like Felton did) Do you honestly think we’d be that much better off? Which games in particular do you think Lin would have been the difference between a loss and a win?

      Just wondering.

      I don’t think you’re asking the right question. A huge part of the Lin v Felton debate centers around age. The Knicks turned the money budgeted for Lin into Kidd, Felton, and Camby. That is an investment in age over youth, which is fine in the short run but bad in the long run. As the years pass, that package will likely get worse, while Lin likely gets better (or stays the same).

      (But to answer your question, I guess you could point to the two losses to Houston :)

    51. lavor postell

      Owen:
      I do think Melo and Lin are incompatible. It’s not really a question of help. The Lin of Linsanity had a usage rate over 30. You can’t field two 30+ usage players on the same team.

      And Ruru, it didn’t look good with Melo and Lin. It just didn’t. Melo looked like he wanted the ball all the time. Lin looked lost, he looked like he wasn’t following his instincts, which are to score and dominate the ball. Instead he was trying to keep everyone happy.

      I think Lin is better and will be better. But it’s a small difference in production in the end. Maybe we win another game in a season because of Lin?

      I just think if I were in Knicks mgmt, and i was looking at spending essentially another 30-40 million for at best 5-6 more wins spread over 3 seasons, I probably would have blanched too.

      You can certainly have two 30% usage guys on the same as long as they both decrease their usage. Just look at Pierce, Allen and Garnett’s usage rates before and after their coming together in Boston. I think it may have been a feeling out period for two guys more accustomed to being on the ball rather than playing off of each other.

      That being said I think you’re right that financially the payoff in resigning Lin was minimal. He certainly is not the missing piece and the fact of the matter is he is still struggling when paired with another high usage player like Harden. He simply is not a very good player off the ball and really lacks in his movement in that regard. Maybe it’s because when he has the ball he expends so much energy.

      It would be interesting though to see how good our team would be if we had Lin coming off the bench. That unit with him and STAT off the bench would definitely be an upgrade on what we have now. JR would be playing off the ball much more which would be great for him and the team. The trade off in Lin using…

    52. BigBlueAL

      No Melo or Chandler today. Not disappointed cause I want them to get healthy and at this point think they should sit out tomorrow too and be ready for Wed but it sure doesnt make me look forward to watching the game today.

    53. lavor postell

      BigBlueAL:
      No Melo or Chandler today.Not disappointed cause I want them to get healthy and at this point think they should sit out tomorrow too and be ready for Wed but it sure doesnt make me look forward to watching the game today.

      I plan on watching college hoops. Today could get really ugly for the Knicks if the last couple of games are any indication.

    54. Z-man

      I’m looking for the Knicks to rise to the occasion today, like they did vs. Miami and San Antonio earlier this season. Kind of a trap game for Clips.

      Re: Lin vs. Felton, IMO still way to early to judge. Knicks are in a funk right now, so every move they have made is going to look bad at this time. For example, how is the Novak signing looking these days?

      Lin has played better than Felton this year and especially lately, no doubt about it. But twice the salary better? Twice the salary plus luxury tax better?

      Also, you can’t just forget that Lin missed the end of the season and playoffs and optedd out of Olympic stuff, adding another level of risk to his signing. He’s stayed healthy, good for him. Felton has not, that’s his problem.

    55. jon abbey

      bobneptune: Felton WS/48 this season = .066

      Lin WS/48 this season = .099

      If that is a trivial difference, then I don’t know what to say.

      CONTEXT
      CONTEXT
      CONTEXT
      CONTEXT
      CONTEXT

    56. jon abbey

      and yes, Lin is probably better, but for the umpteenth time in recent days, he isn’t actually good.

      and yeah, if you want to complain about something, 3 years each for Novak, Kidd and Camby all look pretty dreadful right now.

    57. knicknyk

      Juany8: I thought it was indefensible when I thought the Knicks were going to have both Lin and Felton, when picking one or the other it’s much harder to say which is right. Lin is a better player, but not by enough that trading him for Felton would make this team’s prospects any better. Lin’s simply not worth the contract he’s getting and I think part of the reason he got it in the first place is because Morey wasn’t sure he would get Harden. As far as the Brooks thing, considering both Beverly and Toney Douglas have gotten crunch time minutes for the Rockets this year, I’d say the Rockets are kicking the tires on point guards who could play well off Harden for extended periods. Rockets still better with Lin off the court…

      Lin is significantly better than Felton defensively & offensively. Felton isn’t a starting PG Lin is a solid starting PG that is all there really is to it & we could have had both. And the same Douglas that got traded to Sacramento? McHale has also not played Omer Asik his best defender for some absurd reason in crunch time also. You yourself have said that McHale isn’t a great coach. And the Rockets are also bettter with harden off the floor as well & we all know that isn’t accurate.

    58. yoda4554

      I don’t know why I’m wading into this, because there’s tons of stupidity waving around here, but how about we just look at it this quick, back-of-the-napkin way–

      The biggest and most obvious difference between Lin and Felton this season is TS%: otherwise, they’re both decent defenders and pretty good passers (Lin turns it over more, but more of his assists tend to be on high-percentage dunks and corner 3s), who tend to score better on drives to the rim than from shooting. Felton’s TS% is .487; Lin’s is .535. If Felton scored at Lin’s efficiency, though, he’d be scoring 15.9 PPG instead of 14.5.

      That’s a significant difference. In fact, eyeballing it and adjusting for injury, adding that difference to our point differential would mean something like 4-5 more wins over the course of a season. That’s the difference between 47 wins and 52 wins, which is very possibly the difference between the #2 seed and home court to the ECF and the #5 seed and being likely to lose in the first round.

      So let’s not have any more of this nonsense about how there’s no real difference between having an average player starting on your team and a below-average player starting on your team. There is.

    59. knicknyk

      Darrell H.: Felton is a much better drive and kick point guard.Lin drives with blinders on always looking to score.

      Felton is also a much better PnR point guard.

      I’ll give Lin the nod on finishing at the rim (although everything still looks like a heave to me).

      Felton is a much better ball handler than Lin.

      Lin is horrendous on the defensive end.All teams do is run him into picks which he appears to NEVER be able to see.Felton has sucked on D since he returned from injury so I’d call this a wash.Lin has better hands though.

      Lin is a better athlete with his combination of size and quickness.

      Felton has the better contract.

      Lin will be a backup PG in the next couple of years as will Felton.Basically, if I were GM, I’d…

      Felton isn’t a better drive & kick PG nor is he a better PNR guard synergy stats say otherwise. No Lin will not be a back up at worst he will be a Mike Conley type PG solid starter. No he isn’t horendous on defense Morey has openly said differently (said his defense was Conley like). Lin does a good job of funnelling his man towards help defense & is a smart team defender with a knack for for forcing turnovers & taking charges. I have never seen Ray take a charge. Felton sucked on D in portland too what was his excuse? Oh yeah that he was fat & out of shape. Felton isn’t a good defender Lin is much much better.

    60. knicknyk

      jon abbey:
      and yes, Lin is probably better, but for the umpteenth time in recent days, he isn’t actually good.

      and yeah, if you want to complain about something, 3 years each for Novak, Kidd and Camby all look pretty dreadful right now.

      Lin is a average PG. Solid starting PG which is exactly the salary he is getting paid. Felton is a back up PG & one of the worst starting PG’s in the NBA. Lin is good Felton is shit.

      And I am not bringing this up because the Knicks are loosing. I said in the summer that this knicks team is a second round exit. I also said that they are at best a 4th seed (which I admitted to being happily wrong about). I am bringing this up because Felton has been exactly what I said he would be in the summer crap. Mediocre offensively nash like defensively. I just want a PG that doesnt’ get dusted by every starting PG in the NBA. The Knicks recent slump has nothing to do with my issue with Ray. Ray is awful. People pretending that Lin isn’t very good & MUCH better than Ray & there isn’t much of a difference between the two players are kidding themselves.

    61. Juany8

      knicknyk: Lin is a average PG. Solid starting PG which is exactly the salary he is getting paid. Felton is a back up PG & one of the worst starting PG’s in the NBA. Lin is good Felton is shit.

      And I am not bringing this up because the Knicks are loosing. I said in the summer that this knicks team is a second round exit. I also said that they are at best a 4th seed (which I admitted to being happily wrong about).I am bringing this up because Felton has been exactly what I said he would be in the summer crap. Mediocre offensively nash like defensively. I just want a PG that doesnt’ get dusted by every starting PG in the NBA. The Knicks recent slump has nothing to do with my issue with Ray. Ray is awful. People pretending that Lin isn’t very good & MUCH better than Ray & there isn’t much of a difference between the two players are kidding themselves.

      No the issue, as Jon Abbey put so eloquently, is that you’re complaining about replacing one crappy point guard with a slightly less crappy one that gets payed 3 times as much. Now, if the Knicks had been able to keep Lin AND Felton, that would have been a perfect situation, because Jeremy Lin and Raymond Felton are both better that Prigioni. And yes, if Lin was on the Knicks, I would say they should be starting him, although there have been enough spacing issues lately without another player useless from 3.

      When forced to choose one or the other at their respective salaries though, it’s not such a clearcut choice. Lin wouldn’t make this team much better (seriously maybe they win 1 or 2 more games this year?) and he’d cost a lot more. It’s simply not worth worrying this much about. Plus Lin sucked at the beginning of the year so the hot start probably would have been less exciting. Felton was the reason the Knicks won the second Miami game.

    62. knicknyk

      Juany8: No the issue, as Jon Abbey put so eloquently, is that you’re complaining about replacing one crappy point guard with a slightly less crappy one that gets payed 3 times as much. Now, if the Knicks had been able to keep Lin AND Felton, that would have been a perfect situation, because Jeremy Lin and Raymond Felton are both better that Prigioni. And yes, if Lin was on the Knicks, I would say they should be starting him, although there have been enough spacing issues lately without another player useless from 3.

      When forced to choose one or the other at their respective salaries though, it’s not such a clearcut choice. Lin wouldn’t make this team much better (seriously maybe they win 1 or 2 more games this year?) and he’d cost a lot more. It’s simply not worth worrying this much about. Plus Lin sucked at the beginning of the year so the hot start probably would have been less exciting. Felton was the reason the Knicks won the second Miami game.

      I am talking about replacing a back up pg with a starting pg. I am talking about replacing a PG that is awful on defense with another PG that is a good defender. And the Knicks could have had both those PG’s as you said yourself & eventually traded Lin down the road to help better this team. The fact that the Knicks are still searching for a PG & have Felton & Prigs in that position as there only PG assets is comical.

      Felton is not a starting PG in the NBA. He just isn’t. Would ray start on the Mavs? Darren Collison is better than him & Carlisle doesn’t even start DC because he is a poor defender & Ray is worse on D than DC. Would Ray start on Utah? Like I seriously have to think long & hard to pick between Felton & Steve Blake.

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