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Friday, August 1, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Mar 10 2012)

  • [New York Post] Knicks lose fourth straight despite Lin’s strong performance (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 05:44:56 -0500)
    MILWAUKEE â?? The Knicks hit their first 11 shots last night and were still down two points by the end of the first quarter.
    That says everything about the state of the Knicks’ putrid defense and inability to deliver a knockout blow at the beginning and end. They have forgotten how…

  • [New York Post] Linsane chemistry a thing of the past (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 05:12:22 -0500)
    MILWAUKEE â?” Sometimes, it’s the most over-used, over-worked term in sports. Chemistry? You know what the best team chemistry is? Having Babe Ruth hitting third in your lineup, Lou Gehrig fourth. Having Michael Jordan running one side of the floor, Scottie Pippen the other. Terry Bradshaw throwing the football, Lynn…

  • [New York Post] Knicks’ Smith regrets doing nothing but ‘start’ trouble (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 04:30:28 -0500)
    MILWAUKEE — J.R. Smith made his first start as a Knick Friday night, but the way the whole day went, it might be his last.
    With center Tyson Chandler missing his second straight game, Smith was inserted into the lineup because coach Mike D’Antoni wanted to jump-start his…

  • [New York Times] Bucks 119, Knicks 114: Knicks, Unable to Contain Bucks, Lose Fourth Straight (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 06:16:14 GMT)
    With low post defenders Tyson Chandler and Jared Jeffries out with injuries, the Knicks defense continued to struggle in a loss to Milwaukee.

  • [New York Times] Jeremy Lin’s Agent, Roger Montgomery, Is Riding High (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 07:48:03 GMT)
    The sports agent Roger Montgomery had only a few clients when he took a chance on an under-the-radar talent, Jeremy Lin.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Nets Prevail at Charlotte After Injury to Williams (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 05:32:10 GMT)
    Kris Humphries had 20 points and 15 rebounds, and the Nets overcame an injury to the All-Star guard Deron Williams on Friday night to defeat the host Charlotte Bobcats, 83-74.

  • [New York Times] Kings End 10-Game Skid vs. Mavs With 110-97 Win (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 05:26:24 GMT)
    Tyreke Evans and Marcus Thornton each scored 17 points to help the Sacramento Kings end a 10-game losing streak against the Dallas Mavericks with a 110-97 victory on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Afflalo Scores 28 in Nuggets’ Win Over New Orleans (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 04:50:22 GMT)
    Arron Afflalo scored 28 points, Al Harrington had 20 and the Denver Nuggets pulled away for a 110-97 victory over the New Orleans Hornets on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Paul, Williams Put Clippers Past Parker-Less Spurs (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 04:32:32 GMT)
    Chris Paul had 36 points and 11 assists, Mo Williams scored a season-high 33 off the bench, and the Los Angeles Clippers snapped out of their recent funk to beat the San Antonio Spurs 120-108 on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Ilyasova Scores 26, Bucks Beat Knicks 119-114 (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 04:24:42 GMT)
    Ersan Ilyasova scored 26 points, including a critical putback in the final minute, and the Milwaukee Bucks held on for a 119-114 victory over the New York Knicks on Friday.

  • [New York Times] Bryant’s 34 Points Lift Lakers Over Wolves (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 03:57:57 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant scored 34 points and Andrew Bynum added 26 points and 10 rebounds to lift the reeling Los Angeles Lakers to a 105-102 victory over the Minnesota Timberwolves on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Cavaliers Snap Thunder Home Win Streak 96-90 (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 04:17:30 GMT)
    Antawn Jamison scored 21 points and Kyrie Irving orchestrated a decisive run in the final 3 minutes and the Cleveland Cavaliers snapped Oklahoma City’s 14-game home winning streak by beating the Thunder 96-90 on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Pistons Hold Off Hawks 86-85 (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 03:27:07 GMT)
    Tayshaun Prince made a driving left-handed shot with 24.3 seconds remaining, and the Detroit Pistons held on to beat the Atlanta Hawks 86-85 on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Pierce and Allen Lead Way in Celtics’ Rout (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 03:11:31 GMT)
    Paul Pierce and Ray Allen each scored 22 points and the Boston Celtics rebounded from a lopsided loss and handed one to Portland Friday night, beating the Trail Blazers 104-86.

  • [New York Times] Humphries Leads Nets to 83-74 Win Over Bobcats (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 02:53:45 GMT)
    Kris Humphries had 20 points and 15 rebounds and the New Jersey Nets overcame an injury to Deron Williams to defeat the Charlotte Bobcats 83-74 Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Williams, Young Lift 76ers Past Jazz, 104-91 (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 02:44:19 GMT)
    Lou Williams and Thaddeus Young scored 21 points each, lifting the Philadelphia 76ers past the Utah Jazz 104-91 on Friday night.

  • [New York Newsday] Knicks lose to Bucks, 119-114 (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 00:16:00 EST)
    "We're searching," Mike D'Antoni said before Friday night's game against the Bucks.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks late rally falls short (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 10:21:17 GMT)
    The Knicks frantic rally ultimately fell short, about as short as Carmelo Anthony’s fourth quarter air ball. Milwaukee, which is chasing Mike D’Antoni’s club in the standings, hung on for a 119-114 victory.

  • [New York Daily News] Smith ‘regrets’ tweeting picture of naked woman (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 09:19:58 GMT)
    JR Smith said last night that he “regretsâ? posting a photo of a naked woman on his Twitter account. Smith, whose sometimes inappropriate social media content has gotten him in hot water before, hinted that the Knicks officials addressed the issue with him but that the NBA has not contacted him.

  • [New York Daily News] Linsanity brings out opponents’ best (Sat, 10 Mar 2012 04:12:40 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin is a wanted man in the NBA. Opposing point guards and marketing departments all want a piece of the Knicks’ point guard.

  • 209 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Mar 10 2012)

    1. Spree8

      http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=Ao84UGnY4fXGsoeFwmjdnUS8vLYF?gid=2012030915

      >>“I don’t know about the whole `Linsanity’ thing,” Jennings said. “But he’s a good point guard in a great system, if I could put it like that. He should be able to get numbers, should be able to get assists with Amar’e, with `Melo, Landry Fields, J.R. Smith and all those guys. If any point guard goes there, they all should be able to get numbers. But, I mean, he’s a good player.”

      Can you say “Sour Grapes”?

      Bitter much? Jennings will never get over the fact that Knicks picked Jordan Hill over him. Btw Jennings, Lin has better assists number with Knicks’ “bench warmer” squad during their winning stretch.

    2. SangaD

      Might not be nice now, but a losing stretch is just what this team needs. The talent is there, a losing stretch and a couple of injuries, a suspension or two for punching someone in the face and a wilderness survival weekend and this group of guys will turn into the playoff dark horse that stuns everyone with a string of “will not die today” performances. Its ok. The talent is there. Were good enough. Please DONT get Dwight Howard and start this whole process again. I love Amare, he was once a leader of men for half a season in this tough, over zealous city.

    3. GoKnicksGo

      Jennings said earlier in the year that he wants to play for a big market team. Considering his track record…humility is not his strong point. I hope Lin leaves the Knicks for another team, so you the knicks can get Jennings in the offseaon and be a lottery team for the next 10 years.

    4. GoKnicksGo

      If Lin is so terrible…why not just waive him, he’s making the minimum anyways. You still have three other point guards on your team…It’s not like Lin has Melo or Amare’s contracts.

    5. maudlin17

      Spree8:
      http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=Ao84UGnY4fXGsoeFwmjdnUS8vLYF?gid=2012030915

      >>“I don’t know about the whole `Linsanity’ thing,” Jennings said. “But he’s a good point guard in a great system, if I could put it like that. He should be able to get numbers, should be able to get assists with Amar’e, with `Melo, Landry Fields, J.R. Smith and all those guys. If any point guard goes there, they all should be able to get numbers. But, I mean, he’s a good player.”

      Can you say “Sour Grapes”?

      Bitter much? Jennings will never get over the fact that Knicks picked Jordan Hill over him. Btw Jennings, Lin has better assists number with Knicks’ “bench warmer” squad during their winning stretch.

      Jennings also said that Rubio wasn’t very good when he played with him in the Euro league.

    6. ess-dog

      This roster is such a convoluted mash-up. You have to wonder if D’Antoni has any front office input.

      Pre-Melo trade, the roster was being designed for D’Antoni. But despite what you think of them, Melo and Chandler just aren’t right for this system.

      It’s like we started building a Porsche and halfway through decided we wanted a Range Rover instead. Chandler and Melo make sense together – Lin and Amare make sense together. Of course, no one could’ve predicted Lin, but we have a real mess on our hands now.

      Moving Melo to the Wilson Chandler 4 position might help. Stat works best as a center in this offense, but maybe we can bring Chandler out to the top of the key, give the paint to Amare and let Chandler shoot more?

      There’s just a lot of overlap… It’s a real problem. If we fire D’Antoni, we might as well sell high on Lin b/c he won’t be as good in any other system, Jennings is right about that. We should also move Amare too but is that even possible?

    7. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Where’s Jerome Jordan? We’ve got two PF playing center while Jeffries and Chandler are out. Why not give the kid some burn? His numbers were great in the few minutes he got.

    8. Spree8

      ess-dog:
      This roster is such a convoluted mash-up.You have to wonder if D’Antoni has any front office input.

      >If we fire D’Antoni, we might as well sell high on Lin b/c he won’t be as good in any other system,…..

      ..and your theory that Lin won’t have success without D’Antoni’s SYSTEM is based on what? Lin has already proven himself to be a capable scorer since he took over the starter role. He can play both SG and PG position. Most importantly, he is still young and learning as the season progresses. Stop hating man.

    9. hoolahoop

      Anyone know much about cars here? What should he do?

      “Honey, did you get your Porsche running yet?”
      “No, dear. I took it all apart, bought the best parts I could find, put it back together, and it still stalls out. Once in a while it runs like a dream, like a real Porsche”.
      “So what’s next honey?”
      “I’m not sure what to do. I could
      A – take it apart again, and try to put in even better parts, or
      B- maybe it’s me, and I’m not driving the car properly, or
      C – just keep driving it the way it is and maybe it will just start running perfectly.”

    10. Matt Smith

      I honestly wasn’t as down on Amare as you all seem to be. I thought he had a decent game. Granted, he’s an awful defender, but it’s not for lack of trying. I know that doesn’t seem to count for much, but I’d like to believe good defense is contagious. You can see it when Shump comes in an makes a big steal or a good hustle play, the rest of the team steps their game up.

      I spent most of last night’s game ranting about how much I can’t stand Carmelo. I want him off this team, and fast. While I went on last night about how I would just straight up waive him or exile him to the bench, more realistically I would seriously trade him for someone like Deng or Iguodala straight… players that actually care. Last night, Melo lobbed the ball into the stands on one of the worst alley-oop attempts I’ve ever seen, and he went back down the court laughing. I didn’t find it nearly as funny. The dude is great at slashing to the rack (he normally gets fouled or finishes), but does it what, like once a game? And only then, it’s when we’re down and need to make a comeback. Instead, I have to watch him hold the ball for 7 seconds to decide if he wants to pass or, much more likely, take that stupid contested jumper that he loves. I can’t stand him – it’s not that I deny his talent, but he is the antithesis of the hard-nosed, hustle basketball that I love.

      Side note, I actually would like to see Jordan in there. Anyone else remember last year when KBers were raving about him as our potential starting center when Mozzie left? You can’t teach seven feet, and he’s done well in the D league every time he goes down.

    11. jon abbey

      what the hell is wrong with that Jennings quote? seems entirely accurate to me, especially for the version of the Knicks (all offense, no defense) that Jennings saw last night.

    12. Matt Smith

      Agreed Jon – I didn’t think his wording was that caustic at all, and I thought he was right on top of that.

    13. Spree8

      hoolahoop:
      Anyone know much about cars here? What should he do?

      D – exchange the expansive but defective part that stalled the perfectly running Porsche

    14. JC Knickfan

      There’s just a lot of overlap…It’s a real problem.If we fire D’Antoni, we might as well sell high on Lin b/c he won’t be as good in any other system, Jennings is right about that.We should also move Amare too but is that even possible?

      I find comment very BS. PNR every team does. Lin score on creating his shoot.

      Watching his last 17 games Lin very good scorer. He didn’t have Chandler for PNR and he still was 15/29 last 2 games. He also get to line. If get minutes he can score with any team. Question is how much better can he get on defense and increase his court version. Like most PG he one of top steals guys, but needs a lot instruction on fundamentals defense. I do think MDA system helps with assists number and floor generals skill maybe is little above average. Watching BD play lately in same offense – he definitely better passer then Lin. Why can’t lin do PNR with Stat? BD assist per 48min is off the charts right now, but Lin much better scorer.

      But Lin basically a rookie and I think everyone agrees he going get better.

      Stat 29y – never been great interior defense player. His best days offensively are over. Offensive < Defense.

      Melo has soon top notch man to man defense, but continue to refuse play that kind defense on every possession or at all. He refusing make changes like offense game like take page from Laundry field book. He would had 30 plus last night if he decide move without ball.

    15. StevenU

      Matt smith great post, I share those melo feelings.
      I wish I knew why, in the absence of our two best interior defenders, our best perimeter defender was glued to the bench for 43 minutes. Does anyone know why shumpert barely played?
      What a depressing ABA style game to lose to such a lousy team. Either team could literally get any shot jthey wanted except when the Knicks played about five minutes of D in the 4th.
      Lin played Knick killer Jennings to a draw
      Amare looked decent as the primary screener but when the D is that awful he can not be dropping about three easy passes.
      Watching Melo is just totally depressing and uninspiring…I know he is not a ,dumb guy but he has an immature self centered egotistical way about his that does indeed appear to absolutely kill chemistry.
      His body language is awful.

    16. Spree8

      expensive rather.. and if that fails, sell the Porsche to someone who is capable of handling it.

    17. d-mar

      When the Knicks were on their seven game winning streak and Linsanity was at it’s peak, there were 2 things I and a few other posters pointed out over and over:

      1) Pile up the wins now, because the March schedule is brutal. (That’s why the NO and NJ losses were killers)

      2) Chandler is the guy we can least afford to lose

      Then we go out and lose 4 straight road games, including 1 on a 3 point prayer, 1 to the defending champs and another to a team that never loses at home on the 2nd night of a back to back. Chandler plays in only one of those (the Dallas game doesn’t really count, he was obviously not himself) And now we should blow this team up? Take a few positives from last night’s game ( I know that’s not cool on this site): STAT looks like he’s returning to form, B-Diddy and Lin combined for 22 assists.

      Not trying to be a Pollyanna, all is not well with this team, but we knew these games were coming. Unfortunately, all those ugly home losses earlier in the season leave us no margin for error as far as our record goes.

    18. danvt

      Well said. Thanks. I hope you’re right.

      SangaD: Might not be nice now, but a losing stretch is just what this team needs. The talent is there, a losing stretch and a couple of injuries, a suspension or two for punching someone in the face and a wilderness survival weekend and this group of guys will turn into the playoff dark horse that stuns everyone with a string of “will not die today” performances. Its ok. The talent is there. Were good enough. Please DONT get Dwight Howard and start this whole process again. I love Amare, he was once a leader of men for half a season in this tough, over zealous city.

    19. danvt

      I agree about giving Jerome James, I mean Jordan, some run. I mean, what the hell, he actually PLAYS the center position.

    20. danvt

      I’m gonna reserve judgement on Carmelo and coach D’Antoni for another few weeks, after that, as Peter Tosh says,

      “You’re gonna run to the rock for rescue but there will be no rock”.

    21. Gideon Zaga

      OK since you guys have ran Ruruland out of KB town I’ll try the Melo defense today. Blame the Coach Dantoni. He has no use for Melo in the offense. What a waste of talent. Most of you talk of how he should be slashing more and yada yada but MDA wants him to stand in the corner for spacing and roll to the top of the high screen pnr with TC/STAT. Now isnt this stupid. I mean this coach is so stupid that he cant realise that his stupid system does not have the parts to run it. In life we’re not always dealt with the right kind of cards but we have to make it work. How about running some designed plays for Melo/Amare or TC and even Lin/JR/Baron/Novak. I mean come on thats how Rivers does it and his problem a few years back was no different than it is for MDA now. Amare/ Melo occupy the same space that Pierce/KG used to occupy. Only difference is Pierce developed good 3 pt shooting and Im sure that was after Rivers advised him to. Dantoni just sucks, is it any surprise Amare is still a bad defender after playing most of his career with Dantoni and oh btw Nash is also bad defender. I’m sure Dantoni never played much defense as a player either. At this point I dont want him fired only because the replacements are just well, there are really none. Yeah so I blame Dantoni as will as long as we keep losing.

    22. danvt

      Dolan should sell the team. God, I would love to have a good owner for NYK. Look at the Giants ownership/ management.

      If the Knicks win this year it will be because Lin fell to them and right now it looks as if everyone else, that we already purchased at a premium is just getting in his way. We can’t even get it right once we get lucky. That comes down to ownership.

    23. danvt

      As I said before, I reserve my right to change my mind, because, fool that I am, I still believe that Amarmelo can make it work but RIGHT NOW

      I just want Lin, Fields, Jeffries, Novak, and Chandler. I want Shumpert as a 6th man.

      I want Lin and Chandler to run P&R all day with everybody else finding a good fucking spot on the floor.

      On defense I want Tyson causing panic and Jeff with road rash on his ass. God I hope those guys aren’t out long.

    24. thailandvc

      well at least you are reasonable, adding to the dialogue with your opinion. Ruru was straight preachy his opinion like its gospel.

      In a perfect world, if you use paragraphs that would be awesome for ease of reading.

      Gideon Zaga:
      OK sinceyouguyshaveranRuruland outofKB townI’ll trythe Melo defensetoday. BlametheCoachDantoni. HehasnouseforMelointheoffense. Whatawasteoftalent. Mostofyoutalkof howheshouldbeslashingmoreandyadayada butMDAwantshimtostandinthecornerforspacingandrolltothetopofthehighscreenpnrwithTC/STAT. Now isntthisstupid. Imean thiscoach issostupidthathecantrealisethathisstupidsystemdoesnothavethepartstorunit. In lifewe’renotalwaysdealtwiththerightkind ofcardsbut wehavetomakeitwork. Howabout runningsomedesignedplaysforMelo/AmareorTC andevenLin/JR/Baron/Novak. I meancome on thatshowRivers doesit andhisproblema fewyearsbackwasnodifferent than it isforMDA now. Amare/ Melo occupy thesamespace that Pierce/KG used tooccupy. Onlydifference isPiercedeveloped good 3 pt shooting and Im surethat wasafterRivers advised him to. Dantoni justsucks, isit any surpriseAmare isstilla baddefender afterplaying most of his career withDantoni and oh btw Nashisalsobaddefender. I’m sureDantoninever playedmuch defenseasa player either. At thispoint Idontwanthim firedonly because the replacements are just well, thereare really none. Yeah soI blameDantoni aswill aslong aswekeep losing.

    25. danvt

      This is a great post.

      JC Knickfan: here’s just a lot of overlap…It’s a real problem.If we fire D’Antoni, we might as well sell high on Lin b/c he won’t be as good in any other system, Jennings is right about that.We should also move Amare too but is that even possible?

      I find comment very BS. PNR every team does. Lin score on creating his shoot.

      Watching his last 17 games Lin very good scorer. He didn’t have Chandler for PNR and he still was 15/29 last 2 games. He also get to line. If get minutes he can score with any team. Question is how much better can he get on defense and increase his court version. Like most PG he one of top steals guys, but needs a lot instruction on fundamentals defense. I do think MDA system helps with assists number and floor generals skill maybe is little above average. Watching BD play lately in same offense – he definitely better passer then Lin. Why can’t lin do PNR with Stat? BD assist per 48min is off the charts right now, but Lin much better scorer.

      But Lin basically a rookie and I think everyone agrees he going get better.

      Stat 29y – never been great interior defense player. His best days offensively are over. Offensive < Defense.

      Melo has soon top notch man to man defense, but continue to refuse play that kind defense on every possession or at all. He refusing make changes like offense game like take page from Laundry field book. He would had 30 plus last night if he decide move without ball.

    26. danvt

      d-mar: Not trying to be a Pollyanna, all is not well with this team, but we knew these games were coming. Unfortunately, all those ugly home losses earlier in the season leave us no margin for error as far as our record goes.

      I absolutely agree

    27. JLam

      I really tired of watching no defense and poor rebounding. Why didnt Shump play more minutes last night? Why didnt DA give Jerome a chance? Im waiting for Jeffries and Tyler to be healthy before I watch another game. We cant try to score 120 points every night then decide by the 4th quarter to play some D.

    28. Cousyfan

      Just to add a little ancient Chinese wisdom. I am Chinese and a Harvard man from the 1950′s. My hero was Bob Cousy and much later Bill Russell. But I never really understood the game of basketball because it goes so fast.
      Now with HD and Linsanity, I have begun to watch the Knicks on NBA League Pass.
      This blog has taught me a deeper understanding of how basketball is played. I thank you for all your comments.
      Go Knicks!

    29. Gideon Zaga

      I mean if I told you before this season that there was a team with 2 all stars in their prime. One a top 5 scorer in the league, top 3 at his position and the other arguably top 3 scoring at his position, best pnr big man and a good rebounder. And a top 5 center, known for his great defense andoffensive efficiency and also top 5 in the league. AndI asked what their record will be? Im sure some of you would have pegged them to win it all. The weak link is clearly the coaching. Trade Melo and he would be better elsewhere as are the Crawford’s, Lees, Randolphs and all other players that Dantoni failed to maximize because he is hell bent on proving his offense works better than anything known to basketball and pays no attention to defense. At the end of the day defense wins Championships.

    30. Gamecockerbocker

      I don’t know what it’s going to take to get Jordan some playing time. Maybe if we’re forced by injury, or a few players inability to get the job done, to give extended playing time and maybe even start another D-League-er at, oh, I don’t know, the point guard spot, and that player lights up the opposition and starts a maddening craze throughout the sports world, D’Antoni would realize there’s no harm in giving the guy a shot.

      What are the chances of that scenario playing out, though?

    31. thailandvc

      please no. i rather have Duhon back.

      I remember him talk about how him, steph curry, and tyreke evans will be the next big 3. lol. only one of those guys is not toxic.

      GoKnicksGo:
      Jennings said earlier in the year that he wants to play for a big market team.Considering his track record…humility is not his strong point.I hope Lin leaves the Knicks for another team, so you the knicks can get Jennings in the offseaon and be a lottery team for the next 10 years.

    32. Gamecockerbocker

      Gideon Zaga:
      I mean ifI toldyou before this season that there wasa teamwith 2 all starsintheirprime. One a top 5 scorer in the league, top 3 at his position and the other arguably top 3 scoring at his position, best pnr big man and a good rebounder. And a top 5center, known for his great defense andoffensive efficiency and also top 5in the league. AndI asked what their record will be? Im sure some of you would have pegged them to win it all. The weak link is clearly the coaching. Trade Melo and he would be better elsewhere as are the Crawford’s, Lees, Randolphs and all other players that Dantoni failed to maximize because he is hell bent on proving his offense works better than anything known to basketball and pays no attention to defense. At the end of the daydefensewinsChampionships.

      Great points. This team needs a new offensive philosophy. There’s no point in forcing a system on a bunch of players that flat out cannot run it. People say Lin wouldn’t do well in other systems, but a guy at his age with his ability to keep the dribble going, probe the paint and make things happen in transition can certainly adapt to something other than a PnR offense given a full off season to study and practice it.

      Also, like you said, defense wins championships. I mean, people applauded D’Antoni for giving in and allowing the team to hire a “defensive coordinator”… Why not just hire a coach who doesn’t treat defense like an after thought? How pathetic is it that an NBA teams needs a defensive coordinator?

    33. jon abbey

      danvt: You’re gonna run to the rock for rescue but there will be no rock

      not Peter Tosh, the Slickers from the Harder They Come soundtrack.

    34. Bruno Almeida

      with the amount of depth we have built, it’s incredibly idiotic to not consider trades right now.

      we have 3 guys who could be starting at the 2-guard, we have a bunch of cheap, potentially useful guys (Harrelson, Jeffries, Bill Walker even ________ could somehow be better on a different environment)…

      it just makes too much sense to try to get better while we can, in this off-season J.R, Lin, Fields, Baron, Jeffries and Novak all expire, and it’s obviously not realistic that we’ll keep all of them.

      next season we’ll be right at the cap with only Chandler, Melo, Amare, Shumpert, Harrelson, Balkman, ________ and Jerome Jordan under contract…

      I know it sounds better to give those guys some time to play together and get used to each other, and we’ll all tired of endless tradings, but it’s just a dumb decision to stay put when it’s painfully obvious this team won’t win a title with this configuration and the future scenario is grim (specially since we don’t have 1st rounders in 2012, 2014 and 2016 to restock on the cheap).

    35. Owen

      “There’s just a lot of overlap…It’s a real problem.”

      Agreed. It’s the same problem we have had for a decade. We have acquired too many overrated scorers that don’t fit together. It’s easy to have a problem with Wins Produced but Berri’s general conclusion remains correct.

      “I mean if I told you before this season that there was a team with 2 all stars in their prime. One a top 5 scorer in the league, top 3 at his position and the other arguably top 3 scoring at his position, best pnr big man and a good rebounder. And a top 5 center, known for his great defense and offensive efficiency and also top 5 in the league. AndI asked what their record will be? Im sure some of you would have pegged them to win it all. The weak link is clearly the coaching. ”

      Perhaps the weak link is actually how we evaluate player performance and hand out all-star awards? Specifically, the way we rank players based on points per game despite an avalanche of evidence suggesting that the ability to take a bunch of extra shots just isn’t that important. The coaching isn’t great, but trying to make it work with three high usage guys out there seems well nigh impossible.

    36. Gideon Zaga

      Welcome, please read the layman’s guide to advanced statistics at the top of the forum. Believe everything it tells you at your own discretion ha.

      Cousyfan:
      Just to add a little ancient Chinese wisdom. I am Chinese and a Harvard man from the 1950?s. My hero was Bob Cousy and much later Bill Russell. But I never really understood the game of basketball because it goes so fast.
      Now with HD and Linsanity, I have begun to watch the Knicks on NBA League Pass.
      This blog has taught me a deeper understanding of how basketball is played. I thank you for all your comments.
      Go Knicks!

    37. Bruno Almeida

      thailandvc:
      please no. i rather have Duhon back.

      I remember him talk abouthow him, steph curry, and tyreke evans will be the next big 3. lol. only one of those guys is not toxic.

      and his ankles are made of glass.

      I don’t even get that mad anymore about not drafting Jennings, I just don’t think he’ll ever be much better than what he is right now, specially with that whole “I’m Allen Iverson 2.0″ attitude.

    38. Gideon Zaga

      BTW what ever happened with you and empire strikes back. I believed it had a great part to do with the win streak. What happened?

      Spree8:
      expensive rather.. and if that fails, sell the Porsche to someone who is capable of handling it.

    39. Bruno Almeida

      Owen:
      “There’s just a lot of overlap…It’s a real problem.”

      Agreed. It’s the same problem we have had for a decade. We have acquired too many overrated scorers that don’t fit together. It’s easy to have a problem with Wins Produced but his general conclusion remains correct.

      “I mean if I told you before this season that there was a team with 2 all stars in their prime. One a top 5 scorer in the league, top 3 at his position and the other arguably top 3 scoring at his position, best pnr big man and a good rebounder.And a top 5 center, known for his great defense and offensive efficiency and also top 5 in the league. AndI asked what their record will be? Im sure some of you would have pegged them to win it all. The weak link is clearly the coaching. ”

      Perhaps the weak link is actually how we evaluate player performance and hand out all-star awards? Specifically, the way we rank players based on points per game despite an avalanche of evidence suggesting that the ability to take a bunch of extra shots just isn’t that important.

      that’s the point, the problem is calling Carmelo a top 5 scorer and Amare a top 3 on his own position… specially Amare, I mean, the league is loaded right now with very good PFs… I would trade Amare for a heartbeat right now for a lot of guys, anyone from Duncan / Nowitzki / Bosh / Love / Griffin / Aldridge / Randolph, maybe even Paul Millsap, Ryan Anderson, Boozer, Josh Smith, David Lee or the younger guys (Favors, Gibson, etc, salary being considered).

      to still evaluate Amare like such a great player is ignoring that his efficiency is way down and his defense is as terrible as I’ve ever watched on a basketball court.

    40. Owen

      What about KG, Ibaka, Pekovic, Kris Humphries, David West, and Chris Bosh? What about Ersan Iylasova and Amir Johnson?

      What Power Forward isn’t playing better than Stat right now?

    41. KnicksFanInVA

      When we would rather start our very own Jared Jeffries in place of STAT, that’s about all we need to know.

      Owen:
      What about KG, Ibaka, Pekovic, Kris Humphries, David West, and Chris Bosh? What about Ersan Iylasova and Amir Johnson?

      What Power Forward isn’t playing better than Stat right now?

    42. Gideon Zaga

      EXACTLY! same thing is happening with the Lakers, they love Mike Brown’s defensive philosophy but hate his offense. Surprise surprise these players are so used to the triangle and the post offense. Now Brown wants them to run a pnr type offense while they have no pg and also asking Kobe to be a standstill shooter/slasher. Reminds me of how Phoenix tried a post offense with Shaq after Dantoni left, it failed terribly. Use the right tool for the right job, not every one is adaptive like Pierce. The thing that makes James and Wade work so good is that Wade is the best in the league at moving without the ball and Lebron is a great point forward god. This season we’ve asked Melo to be both, before Lin we asked him to be pg and after Lin we want him to be standstill shooter/slasher. And how about Amare, i dont even know what we want him to be. Trade them both to the Bulls and see who wins not 1, not 2 , not well you know how the rest of the song goes or Fire D’antoni. At least us and the Lakers have our top 10 defense to fall back on.

      Gamecockerbocker: Great points. This team needs a new offensive philosophy. There’s no point in forcing a system on a bunch of players that flat out cannot run it. People say Lin wouldn’t do well in other systems, but a guy at his age with his ability to keep the dribble going, probe the paint and make things happen in transition can certainly adapt to something other than a PnR offense given a full off season to study and practice it.

      Also, like you said, defense wins championships. I mean, people applauded D’Antoni for giving in and allowing the team to hire a “defensive coordinator”… Why not just hire a coach who doesn’t treat defense like an after thought? How pathetic is it that an NBA teams needs a defensive coordinator?

    43. Gideon Zaga

      That’s why I said COMING INTO THE SEASON!!!! come on spend some quality time reading the posts right.

      Bruno Almeida: that’s the point, the problem is calling Carmelo a top 5 scorer and Amare a top 3 on his own position… specially Amare, I mean, the league is loaded right now with very good PFs… I would trade Amare for a heartbeat right now for a lot of guys, anyone from Duncan / Nowitzki / Bosh / Love / Griffin / Aldridge / Randolph, maybe even Paul Millsap, Ryan Anderson, Boozer, Josh Smith, David Lee or the younger guys (Favors, Gibson, etc, salary being considered).

      to still evaluate Amare like such a great player is ignoring that his efficiency is way down and his defense is as terrible as I’ve ever watched on a basketball court.

    44. ess-dog

      Owen:
      “There’s just a lot of overlap…It’s a real problem.”

      Agreed. It’s the same problem we have had for a decade. We have acquired too many overrated scorers that don’t fit together. It’s easy to have a problem with Wins Produced but Berri’s general conclusion remains correct.

      “I mean if I told you before this season that there was a team with 2 all stars in their prime. One a top 5 scorer in the league, top 3 at his position and the other arguably top 3 scoring at his position, best pnr big man and a good rebounder.And a top 5 center, known for his great defense and offensive efficiency and also top 5 in the league. AndI asked what their record will be? Im sure some of you would have pegged them to win it all. The weak link is clearly the coaching. ”

      Perhaps the weak link is actually how we evaluate player performance and hand out all-star awards? Specifically, the way we rank players based on points per game despite an avalanche of evidence suggesting that the ability to take a bunch of extra shots just isn’t that important. The coaching isn’t great, but trying to make it work with three high usage guys out there seems well nigh impossible.

      Jesus, thanks for showing up, Owen. I feel like I’m in crazyland on this board sometimes.

      For the record, I’m not saying that Lin is no good, just that D’Antoni’s systems magnifies his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses. He would not play as well for the Lakers, for example.

      The great thing about Chandler is that he kind of fits any system, his skill set is pretty priceless: rebounding, rim defense and efficient scoring. So if the logic is that Lin and Chandler work in the current offense at their positions, with the current coach, then you should build around that right? Unless you have a lame-duck coach.

      There’s no way to tell what Dolan is thinking, but I think you have to…

    45. ess-dog

      …pick a direction and head there.

      For instance, Zach Randolph played well once he went to an offense perfectly suited for him: as the primary scorer next to a defensive big.

      The problem is, no one will ever give us good value back for Stat. He’s here, so we have to figure out how to use him to maximum effect.

    46. hoolahoop

      Gamecockerbocker:
      I don’t know what it’s going to take to get Jordan some playing time. Maybe if we’re forced by injury, or a few players inability to get the job done, to give extended playing time and maybe even start another D-League-er at, oh, I don’t know, the point guard spot, and that player lights up the opposition and starts a maddening craze throughout the sports world, D’Antoni would realize there’s no harm in giving the guy a shot.

      What are the chances of that scenario playing out, though?

      dantoni is trying to shortenthe rotation, so Jordan won’t be playing anything other than practice and garbage time.

    47. hoolahoop

      Gamecockerbocker: Great points. This team needs a new offensive philosophy. There’s no point in forcing a system on a bunch of players that flat out cannot run it. People say Lin wouldn’t do well in other systems, but a guy at his age with his ability to keep the dribble going, probe the paint and make things happen in transition can certainly adapt to something other than a PnR offense given a full off season to study and practice it.

      Also, like you said, defense wins championships. I mean, people applauded D’Antoni for giving in and allowing the team to hire a “defensive coordinator”… Why not just hire a coach who doesn’t treat defense like an after thought? How pathetic is it that an NBA teams needs a defensive coordinator?

      I think the ball movement, player motion, tough defense in a sound philosophy to build the team on. The players have to buy in. My problem with Dantoni is not that his philosophy is wrong for the players. It’s that the team leader, Melo, is not fully buying in, they play undisciplined, they come out flat to start most quarters, they’re not focused, and they keep losing.

    48. Gamecockerbocker

      hoolahoop: dantoni is trying to shortenthe rotation, so Jordan won’t be playing anything other than practice and garbage time.

      Then he might as well just let him play games in the D-League.

    49. hoolahoop

      Yeah, Amare needs to tighten up his defense, but I don’t know what you guys are thinking that say he sucks. His offense is getting better, looking a lot more like he did last year. Last night he had a great box score line. Yeah, he missed a couple of passes. that happens. TC, who everyone loves, fumbles more passes than anyone, but people make excuses for it.
      It seems people have their favorite players and players they hate, and see the picture according to their prejudice.

    50. hoolahoop

      KnicksFanInVA:
      When we would rather start our very own Jared Jeffries in place of STAT, that’s about all we need to know.

      JJ happens to be playing very good ball now, better than I’ve ever seen him play. But if he was logging most of the minutes, you’d be pining for Amare to come in the game and score some points.

    51. limpidgimp

      JC Knickfan: Why can’t lin do PNR with Stat? BD assist per 48min is off the charts right now, but Lin much better scorer.

      Setting aside that somewhat vague thing generally called ‘court vision’, my impression is that Davis’ passes to Stat have been more precise, whereas Lin’s are less so, often rather low. Stat has trouble (as if he has a back injury) grabbing passes that are low; passes below his waistline he often just fumbles. There have been some passes from Lin in the paint that Stat would lose, the kind that Chandler would have been able to grab since he has better hands (pre wrist injury) than Stat.

    52. Gideon Zaga

      While I definitely respect Berri’s philosophy and see his point of view, but this is not the first time 3 primary high usage players have been on the same team. Look through History, the Magic, Bird teams, the Dr. J , Barkely teams, the present Celtics Big 3, the current Lakers, Clippers and even the Miami Heat. All these have had at least 2 primary high usage players and now the Celtics have 4 with the Emergence of Rondo. So what are you talking about. The weak link is Coaching. The challenge facing these teams lies in two aspects; how to get these high usage players to play defense and how to design plays to maximize their skill sets. Are these not the responsibility of the coach. The Celtics definitely got it right on offense and on defense. Their offense takes advantage of all their all stars skill sets, seeing how there is constant movement and unison between them. One player does not take a play off by standing in a corner. Every one seems like an option in every play they ran, and not by accident they ran their plays to utilize their players as options. How many countless plays does Rondo call in a game. So its not a case of having too many high usage players or duplicate skill sets, its much to do with the plays, offensive and defensive philosophies of the coach.

      Owen:
      “There’s just a lot of overlap…It’s a real problem.”

      Agreed. It’s the same problem we have had for a decade. We have acquired too many overrated scorers that don’t fit together. It’s easy to have a problem with Wins Produced but Berri’s general conclusion remains correct.

      “I mean if I told you before this season that there was a team with 2 all stars in their prime. One a top 5 scorer in the league, top 3 at his position and the other arguably top 3 scoring at his position, best pnr big man and a good rebounder.And a top 5 center, known for his great defense…

    53. Owen

      Ess-Dog – I think Amare is actually perfectly suited to play center in a run and gun offense that pays no attention to defense. Bold theory I know. As much as we talk about the problems of spreading shots between Melo, Lin, and Stat, I think a bigger issue with our starting lineup is that Amare just isn’t great as a traditional power forward. When he plays center and he beats his man, next stop is the rim. When he plays PF, there is a center there too waiting to block his shot. He has figured out the solution to this issue. A lot of elbow jumpers he makes 40% of the time.

      Vis a vis Lin I have been burned enough with young players to know they are very hard to predict. But I tend to think Lin’s ability to get to the rim and run the PNR would work almost anywhere in the NBA, if the coach simply gives him the reins.

      But Kobe holds the reins in LA pretty tightly….

    54. hoolahoop

      For Amare, Fields, Lin, JR, to be effective, the knicks, as a team, need to move without the ball. Fields is great at this. Amare becomes a beast being fed as he’s moving toward the rim. Nash constantly exploited this on breaks, and pnr’s.
      Melo stands in one spot. It stops the flow of the offense. He’s used to being fed the ball and doing his thing. He never had to work to get the ball. He was the go-to guy. I give him credit for trying to fit in by not shooting, iso’ing so much. But his most brilliant moments were cutting to the hoop – without the ball – and being fed for the easy finish.
      The problem is when he stands still, it restricts other players from moving as much. In a good flowing offense, the ball finds energy. This is why he’s not getting the ball as much.

    55. hoolahoop

      ess-dog:
      …pick a direction and head there.

      For instance, Zach Randolph played well once he went to an offense perfectly suited for him:as the primary scorer next to a defensive big.

      The problem is, no one will ever give us good value back for Stat.He’s here, so we have to figure out how to use him to maximum effect.

      Stat is good for the Dantoni system, if it’s run right.

    56. hoolahoop

      Gamecockerbocker: Then he might as well just let him play games in the D-League.

      Why? They need the best players possible to fill the end of the roster in case of emergency (foul trouble, injuries), and the best players to scrimmage in practice. The guys who never play in games still help the team in ways people don’t see.

    57. Spree8

      There’s something you cannot teach in the game>>>> HEART. Tyson & Lin (JJ, Novak, and our bench squad) have shown theirs during the win streak, but I cannot say the same on behalf of our Superstar(s). Winners work hard. They let it be known that losing doesn’t sit well with them w/their emotion and effort on the court. They are the people you want to build your team around.

      So……..Melo fans, how does it feel when you see him smiling and joking out there when the team is down 15+? What about Stat? How does it feel when you see him stepping away from contact and let opposing team score? Do you guys even care? Because I know they don’t. Why would they? They are still collecting their big fat checks after each lost, giving the same excuses after each lost and laughing at you faithful fans in their million dollar mansion.

      And no sorry, a new coach will not solve those “problems”. Hate to be a downer, but I do not believe the Knicks will ever win a championship with Melo & Amare as our Superstars.

    58. Gideon Zaga

      How cannyou expect him to buy in when all he has him do is be a decoy every single play, actually he only has one play, high screen and roll, MELO you stand in the corner, if your defender helps we kick it out to you open 3. If Lin gets trapped come out and get the ball out of his hands and if its 5 seconds iso. Are you kidding me? Would you buy in. Go and watch the 4th quarter last night, Melo’s defender rotated to help only one time and that one time he touched the ball after what seemed like years of play after play while not even touching the ball to pass guess what he air balled. Now you guys say Melo is a black hole, i don’t blame him , I blame the Coach and his dumb one play system.

      hoolahoop: I think the ball movement, player motion, tough defense in a sound philosophy to build the team on. The players have to buy in. My problem with Dantoni is not that his philosophy is wrong for the players. It’s that the team leader, Melo, is not fully buying in, they play undisciplined, they come out flat to start most quarters, they’re not focused, and they keep losing.

    59. Gideon Zaga

      And who’s fault is all this? You think Melo just goes and stands in the corner and says I’ma stand here and chill. This is for spacing. Come on, look at the root of the problem Dantoni/ Pringlesor my personal favorite the monopoly man.

      hoolahoop:
      For Amare, Fields, Lin, JR, to be effective, the knicks, as a team, need to move without the ball. Fields is great at this. Amare becomes a beast being fed as he’s moving toward the rim. Nash constantly exploited this on breaks, and pnr’s.
      Melo stands in one spot. It stops the flow of the offense. He’s used to being fed the ball and doing his thing. He never had to work to get the ball. He was the go-to guy. I give him credit for trying to fit in by not shooting, iso’ing so much. But his most brilliant moments were cutting to the hoop – without the ball – and being fed for the easy finish.
      The problem is when he stands still, it restricts other players from moving as much. In a good flowing offense, the ball finds energy. This is why he’s not getting the ball as much.

    60. hoolahoop

      Spree8: So……..Melo fans, how does it feel when you see him smiling and joking out there when the team is down 15+? What about Stat? How does it feel when you see him stepping away from contact and let opposing team score? Do you guys even care? Because I know they don’t. Why would they? They are still collecting their big fat checks after each lost, giving the same excuses after each lost and laughing at you faithful fans in their million dollar mansion.

      I’ve always thought this about Melo. The icing was his comments and attitude after the tough Boston loss. Melo’s does not have the heart of a champion leader. I used to think Amare did, but it seems dulled since Melo arrived.
      I give Melo credit for trying to adjust his game. I just don’t think he wants to win enough to do everything he can to fit into the system. Playing with heart means stopping your guy on defense is just as important as hitting the three or getting an assist. It’s about doing everything it takes to win with every ounce of ingenuity you got in you. Bash Kobe all you want, but the guy’s a winner.

    61. hoolahoop

      Gideon Zaga:
      How cannyou expect him to buy in when all he has him do is be a decoy every single play, actually he only has one play, high screen and roll, MELO you stand in the corner, if your defender helps we kick it out to you open 3. If Lin gets trapped come out and get the ball out of his hands and if its 5 seconds iso. Are you kidding me? Would you buy in. Go and watch the 4th quarter last night, Melo’s defender rotated to help only one time and that one time he touched the ball after what seemed like years of play after play while noteventouching theballtopass guess what he air balled. Now you guys say Melo is a black hole, i don’t blame him , I blame the Coach and his dumb one play system.

      Your Dantoni directions to Melo are all conjecture, unless you have the huddles and practices wire-tapped.
      Melo has always spotted up and stood in one spot . . . waiting to be handed the ball. That’s his game. Dantoni didn’t teach him that. Melo needs to be un-taught that.
      “Hey Melo, move without the ball. Get open for easy hoops. Cut to the basket. Lose your man. PNR. Catch and pass. Move the ball….”

    62. danvt

      Right. I got it confused with Downpressor Man. Jeez, I don’t even know music as well as others on this blog :)

      In all fairness he only had Zach and Jamal for 16 games

      jon abbey: not Peter Tosh, the Slickers from the Harder They Come soundtrack.

      Gideon Zaga: Trade Melo and he would be better elsewhere as are the Crawford’s, Lees, Randolphs and all other players that Dantoni failed to maximize because he is hell bent on proving his offense works better than anything known to basketball and pays no attention to defense. At the end of the day defense wins Championships.

    63. Gideon Zaga

      I’m certainly not a Melo fan or an Amare fan or a Gallo fan or a Chandler fan, I’m a New York .Knicks fan and I will continue to defend our players no matter who it is on the team. But what I will not condone is a coach who can’t make his players adjust or adjust to his players. That’s just stupidity and that’s why we lose. 10 years, I’ve sat here and see players slip through our hands and be better elsewhere. I mean if we kept all our draft picks in the past decade, we’d probably be a middle of the pack playoff team. if only these stiffs who call themselves coaches knew better. So yeah I’m sure a better coach will help.

      Spree8:
      There’s something you cannot teach in the game>>>> HEART. Tyson & Lin (JJ, Novak, and our bench squad) have shown theirs during the win streak, but I cannot say the same on behalf of our Superstar(s). Winners work hard. They let it be known that losing doesn’t sit well with them w/their emotion and effort on the court. They are the people you want to build your team around.

      So……..Melo fans, how does it feel when you see him smiling and joking out there when the team is down 15+? What about Stat? How does it feel when you see him stepping away from contact and let opposing team score?Do you guys even care? Because I know they don’t. Why would they? They are still collecting their big fat checks after each lost, giving the same excuses after each lost and laughing at you faithful fans in their million dollar mansion.

      And no sorry, a new coach will not solve those “problems”. Hate to be a downer, but I do not believe the Knicks will ever win a championship with Melo & Amare as our Superstars.

    64. danvt

      Yeah, but both Chandler and Jeff are out, and, Shumpert might be more dinged up then is being talked about.

      Gamecockerbocker: Also, like you said, defense wins championships. I mean, people applauded D’Antoni for giving in and allowing the team to hire a “defensive coordinator”… Why not just hire a coach who doesn’t treat defense like an after thought? How pathetic is it that an NBA teams needs a defensive coordinator?

    65. Gideon Zaga

      Yeah right same goes for you, how do you know he doesn’t tell him, hey Melo stand here and spot up, come on all we have is the film and action on the floor, unless you’re dumb you’ll know he has always done this for spacing purposes. Come don’t be arguing for argument sakes, let’s debate facts.

      hoolahoop: Your Dantoni directions to Melo are all conjecture, unless you have the huddles and practices wire-tapped.
      Melo has always spotted up and stood in one spot . . . waiting to be handed the ball. That’s his game. Dantoni didn’t teach him that. Melo needs to be un-taught that.
      “Hey Melo, move without the ball. Get open for easy hoops. Cut to the basket. Lose your man. PNR. Catch and pass. Move the ball….”

    66. Owen

      Gideon – Allen, Garnett, and Rondo are not high usage players. None of them have ever had a season over 30%, which is a fair standard for high usage. Carmelo’s average for his career is 31%.

      The reason those three players combine so effectively with Pierce is that they are all very very effective for relatively low usage levels (for star caliber players.) Rondo especially is amazingly productive despite a usage around 20%, which is low for a “star” point guard.

      All your other examples are flawed too. Magic’s career usage average? 22.3%. It’s not hard to field a team when you have a guy producing like a superstar at that low level of usage.

      I don’t think there has ever been a team in the NBA that put out two 30+ usage players like Melo is, and like Lin was when Melo was hurt. The math is just a little difficult. I don’t think any coach could figure it out.

      It’s not the coach. It’s Melo and Amare not being as productive as people think they are.

    67. Gideon Zaga

      Yeah you say that now. Kobe was the same guy who refused to shoot to prove his point and cost his team the playoffs. Truth is we all knkw nothing and are on the outside looking in. That’s why I hate discussing attitudes and personalities, what matters to me is the guy’s play on the floor. Don’t act like you have some exclusive to the guy’s persona.

      hoolahoop: I’ve always thought this about Melo. The icing was his comments and attitude after the tough Boston loss. Melo’s doesnot have the heart of a champion leader. I used to think Amare did, but it seems dulled since Melo arrived.
      I give Melo credit for trying to adjust his game. I just don’t think he wants to win enough to do everything he can to fit into the system. Playing with heart means stopping your guy on defense is just as important as hitting the three or getting an assist. It’s about doing everything it takes to win with every ounce of ingenuity you got in you. Bash Kobe all you want, but the guy’s a winner.

    68. Bruno Almeida

      Gideon Zaga:
      That’s why I said COMING INTO THE SEASON!!!! come on spend some quality time reading the posts right.

      sorry, but thinking Amare was a top 3 offensive PF before the season still makes no sense, the same for Melo as a top 5 player.

      hoolahoop: I’ve always thought this about Melo. The icing was his comments and attitude after the tough Boston loss. Melo’s doesnot have the heart of a champion leader. I used to think Amare did, but it seems dulled since Melo arrived.
      I give Melo credit for trying to adjust his game. I just don’t think he wants to win enough to do everything he can to fit into the system. Playing with heart means stopping your guy on defense is just as important as hitting the three or getting an assist. It’s about doing everything it takes to win with every ounce of ingenuity you got in you. Bash Kobe all you want, but the guy’s a winner.

      this is just so irritating, he has all of Kobe’s bad habits without most of the qualities (Kobe’s incredible drive to be the best, and his supernatural capability of playing through injuries).

    69. Owen

      _______ is a reference to a certain bench combo guard who started the season in the starting lineup and played so badly he may not play again this year. It’s a riff on He who shall not be named from the Harry Potter movies…

    70. Owen

      And I totally take back my 30+ usage level comment, since Durant and Westbrook are doing it this year….

      Although, given the problems they have had playing with each other, it sort of illustrates the point. There is a reason Harden is far and away the best player on that team by +/-.

    71. Bruno Almeida

      Gideon Zaga:
      And who’s fault is all this? You think Melo just goes and stands in thecorner and says I’ma stand here and chill. Thisisforspacing. Come on, look at the root of the problem Dantoni/ Pringlesor my personal favorite the monopoly man.

      yeah, I’m sorry, but actually I do.

      D’Antoni’s offense has always been predicated on movement, fastbreaks, constant pick and roll action and people making cuts or spotting up.

      Phoenix’s starting SF for all those great years was Shawn Marion, a pretty bad 3 pt shooter (around .320 for his career, very similar to Carmelo) who has made an all-star career out of cutting and finding spaces on D after Nash / Amare pick and rolls.

      why can’t Melo do it? do you really think D’Antoni would tell him to stay behind the 3pt line and spot up every single play?

      it’s definitely not because of D’Antoni that Melo stays glued to one spot in the court waiting for the ball to come to him, so he can “create his own shot”.

    72. Owen

      I saw Shawn Marion play back in the mig aughts. I saw him dominate fantasy leagues too. Carmelo Anthony is no Shawn Marion…

    73. EB

      Bruno Almeida: Phoenix’s starting SF for all those great years was Shawn Marion, a pretty bad 3 pt shooter (around .320 for his career, very similar to Carmelo) who has made an all-star career out of cutting and finding spaces on D after Nash / Amare pick and rolls.

      There is a difference between this team and that one. Generally Amare played center and marion played the four. when this happens there is a lot more room on the court to make cuts. Melo is playing the three and when we usually have tc and stat in there we have no room to make cuts to the basket.

      Sometimes I look at Melo and think that he is just out of shape and can’t be constantly in motion. He’s incapable of playing at 100% for the whole game the way other players can.

    74. Bruno Almeida

      Owen:
      I saw Shawn Marion play back in the mig aughts. I saw him dominate fantasy leagues too. Carmelo Anthony is no Shawn Marion…

      definitely not, but he has the talent to at least try to operate in the same way on offense… no way Melo is as smart as Marion was in his prime, but it was just an example to show that it’s not D’Antoni’s fault.

      Carmelo seems to follow a longtime tradition in the NBA, that some players are more “real” than others because they create their own offense… this is maddening, really.

      surely many people in the league (and in the media, also) think that if Ryan Anderson, for example, scores 30 points, all on assisted baskets, he’s less worthy of consideration as “real” than if Kobe scores 30 on mostly isolations and post ups.

    75. Spree8

      Gideon Zaga:
      I’m certainly not a Melo fan or an Amare fan or a Gallo fan or a Chandler fan, I’m a New York .Knicks fan and I will continue to defend our players no matter who it is on the team. But what I will not condone is a coach who can’t make his players adjust or adjust to his players. That’s just stupidity and that’s why we lose. 10years, I’ve sat here and see players slip through our hands and be better elsewhere. I mean if we kept all our draft picks in the past decade, we’d probably be a middle of the pack playoff team. if only these stiffs who call themselves coaches knew better. So yeah I’m sure a better coach will help.

      Melo’s problem is obvious…it’s not hard to see. It’s his EGO. I don’t see him adjusting if the new coach’s system also feature Lin (a rookie) running the point and orchestrating the offense over him (a Superstar).

    76. Gideon Zaga

      Well I agree with you and I was wrong and only by 5% for the Celts and well Rondo’s numbers are skewed its not as if he already had a team where he was the man, he came in as a rookie to play with HOF caliber players and same goes for Magic. Its the coach and you know it. I know this is a players league but coaches add elements too.

      Owen:
      Gideon – Allen, Garnett, and Rondo are not high usage players. None of them have ever had a season over 30%, which is a fair standard for high usage. Carmelo’s average for his career is 31%.

      The reason those three players combine so effectively with Pierce is that they are all very very effective for relatively low usage levels (for star caliber players.) Rondo especially is amazingly productive despite a usage around 20%, which is low for a “star” point guard.

      All your other examples are flawed too. Magic’s career usage average? 22.3%. It’s not hard to field a team when you have a guy producing like a superstar at that low level of usage.

      I don’t think there has ever been a team in the NBA that put out two 30+ usage players like Melo is, and like Lin was when Melo was hurt. The math is just a little difficult. I don’t think any coach could figure it out.

      It’s not the coach. It’s Melo and Amare not being as productive as people think they are.

    77. Gideon Zaga

      Yeah glad you can see into the future. Can you also tell when the Knicks will win a Chamionship or better what the numbers of Tuesday’s Mega lottery are? Id appreciate it.

      Spree8: Melo’s problem is obvious…it’s not hard to see. It’s his EGO. I don’t see him adjusting if the new coach’s system also feature Lin (a rookie) running the point and orchestrating the offense over him (a Superstar).

    78. Owen

      Bruno – We agree on this. But my point re Marion and Melo is that Melo simply does not have the talent or athleticism to do what Marion did in his prime in a D’Antoni offense. Marion scored 22 points per game, with 1.7 turnovers, while being one of the most efficient players in the league 59 ts%. And, ho hum, he averaged 12 rebounds per game too.

      Gideon –

      One theory is that D’Antoni is a bad coach

      The other theory is that Melo and Amare are overrated.

      One seems more plausible than the other….

    79. bluemax

      Gideon Zaga:
      I mean ifI toldyou before this season that there wasa teamwith 2 all starsintheirprime. One a top 5 scorer in the league, top 3 at his position and the other arguably top 3 scoring at his position, best pnr big man and a good rebounder. And a top 5center, known for his great defense andoffensive efficiency and also top 5in the league. AndI asked what their record will be? Im sure some of you would have pegged them to win it all. The weak link is clearly the coaching. Trade Melo and he would be better elsewhere as are the Crawford’s, Lees, Randolphs and all other players that Dantoni failed to maximize because he is hell bent on proving his offense works better than anything known to basketball and pays no attention to defense. At the end of the daydefensewinsChampionships.

      you don’t make any sense, you know that. We have been consistently top 8 defense when Chandler is in the line up all season! This BS line that MDA does not care about defense gets tiresome. Why don’t you just say you don’t like MDA and be done with it. Never mind the BS reasons.

    80. EB

      Anyone else see that Melo seems like he has no energy for the majority of the game? He’ll dominate in spurts but then look exhausted and begin taking pull up jumpers from midrange. Recover for the 4th and go on a tear again.

    81. Caleb

      jon abbey: not Peter Tosh, the Slickers from the Harder They Come soundtrack.

      In truth it’s an old traditional song – first “pop” hit was by The Weavers, as “Sinner Man,” ca. 1950..

    82. Gideon Zaga

      You’re wrong Marion was usually used as PF, sometimes I wander if Dantoni cosiders Jefffries as Marion anyhow yeah and he played that small ball line up, how do you think Marion developed that ugly shot, he actually makes the 3 sometimes too. Dantoni’s offense is not predicated on ball movement, player movement and slashing. Stay true to yourself the man’s offense is about pick and rolls and 3 pointers. Don’t worry you don’t have to agree.

      Bruno Almeida: yeah, I’m sorry, but actually I do.

      D’Antoni’s offense has always been predicated on movement, fastbreaks, constant pick and roll action and people making cuts or spotting up.

      Phoenix’s starting SF for all those great years was Shawn Marion, a pretty bad 3 pt shooter (around .320 for his career, very similar to Carmelo) who has made an all-star career out of cutting and finding spaces on D after Nash / Amare pick and rolls.

      why can’t Melo do it? do you really think D’Antoni would tell him to stay behind the 3pt line and spot up every single play?

      it’s definitely not because of D’Antoni that Melo stays glued to one spot in the court waiting for the ball to come to him, so he can “create his own shot”.

    83. Bruno Almeida

      D’Antoni had pretty good players during his Phoenix tenure, but I don’t think there’s any question he made a pretty big impact with those guys… all the players from that era love him to death and most of them never came close to replicating their numbers and success while in D’Antoni’s system… Diaw, Marion, Barbosa, Amare, Raja Bell, Quentin Richardson… the list is pretty long.

      most of that is Nash, obviously, but I don’t buy that a 60-win team can have a terrible coach.

      I do think coaching is somewhat overrated, and Popovich and Phil Jackson are the only 2 coaches who really seem to turn water to wine, but to say D’Antoni had nothing to do with Phoenix becoming a perennial contender right on Nash’s first year is pretty ludicrous imo.

    84. Gideon Zaga

      Ok I don’t like him. Happy? Ok moving on. So if he cares about defense , how come the Knicks were always known as a good offensive team and a never a defensive team before this season. Weren’t we league bottom in defensive efficiency last season and most seasons. Don’t credit Tyson Chandler’s awesomeness to MDA. The man did the same for Dallas last year and a significant drop off happened after he left. I’m sorry but you don’t have to agree, my eyes tell me the man still can’t coach defense.

      bluemax: you don’t make any sense, you know that. We have been consistently top 8 defense when Chandler is in the line up all season! This BS line that MDA does not care about defense gets tiresome. Why don’t you just say you don’t like MDA and be done with it. Never mind the BS reasons.

    85. Bruno Almeida

      Gideon Zaga:
      You’re wrong Marion was usually used as PF, sometimes I wander if Dantoni cosiders Jefffries as Marion anyhow yeah and he played that small ball line up, how do you think Marion developed that ugly shot, he actually makes the 3 sometimes too. Dantoni’s offense is not predicated on ball movement, player movement and slashing. Stay true to yourself the man’s offense is about pick and rolls and 3 pointers. Don’t worry you don’t have to agree.

      Marion did play at the 4 mostly, but it’s not his position that’s important, it’s the way he played… does it really matter if he starts at PF or SF, specially considering that most of his Phoenix career he played alongside Diaw, who could also play both positions?

      Marion could hit the 3 (inefficiently, he’s a career .320 shooter), but most of his points came through offensive rebounding and moving without the ball, he was never effective at “creating his own shot”.

      it’s what Owen said, he was extremely athletic and smart, and could always find openings on defense while everybody was concerned with the pick and roll.

      that’s something Melo isn’t capable of doing, he’s not smart enough, not athletic enough and thinks too much of himself as a superstar iso-scorer to accept other roles.

    86. EB

      Bruno Almeida: Marion did play at the 4 mostly, but it’s not his position that’s important, it’s the way he played… does it really matter if he starts at PF or SF, specially considering that most of his Phoenix career he played alongside Diaw, who could also play both positions?

      Marion could hit the 3 (inefficiently, he’s a career .320 shooter), but most of his points came through offensive rebounding and moving without the ball, he was never effective at “creating his own shot”.

      it’s what Owen said, he was extremely athletic and smart, and could always find openings on defense while everybody was concerned with the pick and roll.

      that’s something Melo isn’t capable of doing, he’s not smart enough, not athletic enough and thinks too much of himself as a superstar iso-scorer to accept other roles.

      You’re ignoring the difference in situation between playing with two threes that the phoenix teams had and essentially playing with two centers like the knicks are.

      And although Melo isn’t as quick as Marion or as high of a leaper he does have a skillset that Marion doesn’t he is stronger and is capable doing certain things that Marion can’t. To say he isn’t smart enough is ignorant, if he isn’t going to get free on the backdoor cut he shouldn’t be crowding the paint.

    87. limpidgimp

      This is really weird: “The league office rescinded the technical foul given to Tyson Chandler on Tuesday at Dallas. That reduces his number of technicals this season to nine. Players receive a suspension after their 13th technical.”
      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/sports/basketball/jr-smith-puts-controversy-aside-and-starts-for-knicks-in-milwaukee.html?ref=basketball&gwh=BED0B98C0DF282E312BD7B71AF91479D

      On one hand, it’s nice that Chandler now has a bigger buffer before getting suspended for too many technicals. On the other hand, it acknowledges the technical was a mistake, AFTER it affected the game.

    88. Gideon Zaga

      Look guys I have never argued with you guys about Melo’s work rate, I agreehe doesn’t have the high energy of a Marion, DWade, Kenneth Faried, Matt Barnes to name a few but come on so what. In life we are not dealt with the right cards every single flop, so what if Melo is not Marion, he doesn’t have to be. Its still up to the coach just like its up to you at your poker table to work with the hand you’re dealt. You guys keep defending the coach while he’s had premium talent slip through his hands and if only he had this and that, all because he couldn’t maximize them or fit them into “his system”. Well fuck his system , I pay good money to see a good team witg orwithout big name players to showcase their talent not to see freaking system. Come on.

      Owen:
      Bruno – We agree on this. But my point re Marion and Melo is that Melo simply does not have the talent or athleticism to do what Marion did in his prime in a D’Antoni offense.

      Gideon –

      One theory is that D’Antoni is a bad coach

      EB:
      Anyone else see that Melo seems like he has no energy for the majority of the game? He’ll dominate in spurts but then look exhausted and begin taking pull up jumpers from midrange. Recover for the 4th and go on a tear again.

    89. Bruno Almeida

      EB: You’re ignoring the difference in situation between playing with two threes that the phoenix teams had and essentially playing with two centers like the knicks are.

      And although Melo isn’t as quick as Marion or as high of a leaper he does have a skillset that Marion doesn’t he is stronger and is capabledoing certain things that Marion can’t. To say he isn’t smart enough is ignorant, if he isn’t going to get free on the backdoor cut he shouldn’t be crowding the paint.

      well, the smart comment is based on my impressions about Melo in this year… it might be a little unfair, but to watch him smile and laugh after terrible losses, to hear his Kobe-like comments, and his insistence on playing inefficient ball… contrast that to Marion, who was always in the right places and knew exactly his limitations and his abilities… Marion definitely looks smarter to me.

      and I’m not ignoring the difference in both team’s playstyles, it’s just that Gideon was putting all the blame on D’Antoni, and I brought up Marion’s example to show that I don’t think MDA would actually tell a talented player to sit behind the 3pt line.

    90. Gideon Zaga

      See this is what I hate, all this absolutism, come on how do you know he is not capable, where is Ruruland when you need him/her, im sure he could have pulled up some history. Anyhow im not goimg to expend energy on this ignorance as Melo has been slashing and beating his man off ball even in the last few games. If you said he is not doing it consistently I’d agree with you but again isn’t it the coaches job to ensure that he keeps employing this.

      Bruno Almeida: Marion did play at the 4 mostly, but it’s not his position that’s important, it’s the way he played… does it really matter if he starts at PF or SF, specially considering that most of his Phoenix career he played alongside Diaw, who could also play both positions?

      Marion could hit the 3 (inefficiently, he’s a career .320 shooter), but most of his points came through offensive rebounding and moving without the ball, he was never effective at “creating his own shot”.

      it’s what Owen said, he was extremely athletic and smart, and could always find openings on defense while everybody was concerned with the pick and roll.

      that’s something Melo isn’t capable of doing, he’s not smart enough, not athletic enough and thinks too much of himself as a superstar iso-scorer to accept other roles.

    91. The Infamous Cdiggy

      ess-dog: …For the record, I’m not saying that Lin is no good, just that D’Antoni’s systems magnifies his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses.He would not play as well for the Lakers, for example.

      The great thing about Chandler is that he kind of fits any system, his skill set is pretty priceless:rebounding, rim defense and efficient scoring.So if the logic is that Lin and Chandler work in the current offense at their positions, with the current coach, then you should build around that right?Unless you have a lame-duck coach.

      There’s no way to tell what Dolan is thinking, but I think you have to…

      This leads me to something I posted on the last thread but I’d like you guys’ opinion on:

      Another thing I’ve been pondering: We know how much Lin’s emergence has changed the complexion of this team, but what about going forward beyond this year? Someone in another thread argued that there are/aren’t 15 PGs in the league now who are better. You may say there probably are 15 better PGs right now, but the huge asterisk to that is the NBA is filled with talented PGs right now. Think about it: we have a lottery pick-level point guard with good size, good first step, a jump shot, passing skills and a high IQ. We now have seen his deficiencies, but if we know it, he definitely knows it (seems he has high self-awareness). Can’t you get a little giddy thinking about how he can improve in a couple years, let alone one year?

      Let’s say Lin is the real deal, and he, within 12-24 months, unquestionably places himself within the top 15 or 12 PGs in the league. We can agree that legit PGs and Cs are the hardest to find (right?) – do we continue to look at this team through the prism and Amar’e/Melo, or dare we say “you know, we have a (potential) top-10 or 12 PG and one of the best centers in the league – maybe we need to look at the construction of this team…

    92. jon abbey

      Caleb: In truth it’s an old traditional song – first “pop” hit was by The Weavers, as “Sinner Man,” ca. 1950..

      that line is specific to the Slickers version, though.

      they rescind technicals later all the time, it matters because guys get suspended after a certain number. people get so riled up about technicals and how they affect the game, but any missed block/charge has a much bigger impact.

    93. jon abbey

      The Infamous Cdiggy: We can agree that legit PGs and Cs are the hardest to find (right?) – do we continue to look at this team through the prism and Amar’e/Melo, or dare we say “you know, we have a (potential) top-10 or 12 PG and one of the best centers in the league – maybe we need to look at the construction of this team…

      of course we need to look at the construction of the team, but PGs and PFs seem to be the easiest to find right now.

    94. The Infamous Cdiggy

      jon abbey: of course we need to look at the construction of the team, but PGs and PFs seem to be the easiest to find right now.

      You know, there’s a quote I think that says in any sport, you want to be strong up the middle. In basketball terms, does that mean you’re best/most important players should be at the 1, 3, and 5? Personally, I think the evolution of the 4 throughout this new century might have changed that a bit. Before I go on, what do you think?

    95. The Infamous Cdiggy

      #95 got cut off.. that last line read: “maybe we need to look at the construction of this team differently”

    96. jon abbey

      well, Miami is built around a big 3 with no C or PG, same for Boston (Rondo of course has improved as the older 3 have aged). I tend to think C is the most crucial on defense, PG on offense, but every situation is different.

    97. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      What a harsh turn for Minnesota. Looking like a playoff team, and poof.

    98. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      jon abbey:
      well, Miami is built around a big 3 with no C or PG, same for Boston (Rondo of course has improved as the older 3 have aged). I tend to think C is the most crucial on defense, PG on offense, but every situation is different.

      Mario Chalmers has a TS% of .644 with a usage of 17%. I’m not saying that playing next to the best player since Michael Jordan doesn’t help, but Norris Cole is putting up terrible shooting numbers in the same system. There’s a reason Chalmers is shooting that well, and it’s not all on his teammates.

      Miami should be looking high and low for a decent center if they want to win a championship. Having someone like Jerome Jordan (a tall seven-footer who can stand in the paint and put his arms in the air) would be a huge upgrade over Joel Anthony.

    99. jon abbey

      “built around”

      and if you really think Jerome Jordan would be even a slight upgrade on Joel Anthony, you should follow a different sport. seriously.

    100. max fisher-cohen

      My theory on wins produced is that it reflects the flaws in the way teams currently build their rosters. They overvalue guys who consume possessions and undervalue guys who do less obvious things like rebound, avoid difficult shots, put themselves in position for easy scores, and defend.

      As a result, these teams have too many possession-users, and that redundancy makes the scorers less valuable and the WP guys, due to the shortage of them and the shortage of minutes they receive on most rosters, more valuable.

      As a result, just about every team in the league would benefit by making their next three roster decisions based entirely on wins produced.

      That said, if every team began building strictly according to wins produced, after some time, its flaws would become apparent. We’d see that there is more value than WP claims to guys who consume possessions, as long as they don’t do it at a horribly inefficient rate.

    101. The Infamous Cdiggy

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Mario Chalmers has a TS% of .644 with a usage of 17%. I’m not saying that playing next to the best player since Michael Jordan doesn’t help, but Norris Cole is putting up terrible shooting numbers in the same system. There’s a reason Chalmers is shooting that well, and it’s not all on his teammates.

      Miami should be looking high and low for a decent center if they want to win a championship. Having someone like Jerome Jordan (a tall seven-footer who can stand in the paint and put his arms in the air) would be a huge upgrade over Joel Anthony.

      I would agree with you, but Joel Anthony did exactly that when the Knicks played them a couple weeks ago, did he not? (had some blks)

    102. Bruno Almeida

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      What a harsh turn for Minnesota. Looking like a playoff team, and poof.

      yeah, pretty rough, without Rubio they’re most likely done… they do have Ridnour and Barea, so they should still be pretty competitive, but Rubio was giving them a different edge that the other 2 can’t bring.

      in my opinion Joel Anthony is terrible, he’s adequate defensively because Lebron, Battier and Wade are such incredible defenders (even if Battier is, even if it became common sense to say it, no longer the elite defender he once was) that his job is so much easier than say, Chandler’s.

      it’s the same thing with Marc Gasol, he’s playing really well on D, but it gets really easy to do it when you have Tony Allen, Mike Conley and Rudy Gay on the perimeter.

    103. Spree8

      Gideon Zaga:
      Yeah glad you can see into the future. Can you also tell when the Knicks will win a Chamionship…

      Look, I am a Knicks fan just like you. By my name you should know I’ve done my share of the “suffering” as a Knicks fan and that I’m no bandwagoner whom just recently aboard the “Linsanity” ship. I’m just telling it as I see it. I hope I’m wrong. The only thing we can hope right now is for Tyson to get well and return to the court soon. It’s obviously too early at this stage of Lin’s career to be the guy, but we need Tyson’s leadership on the court. I do agree with you on one thing. Melo does not listen to D’Antoni nor does he respect him as a coach. Do we blame the coach for being incompetent or Melo for being immature is the question.

    104. bluemax

      To me most of the threads regarding the roster on this blog don’t make too much sense (excuse me for saying so), since almost everybody agrees that the major problem starts with a very simple and untractable fact – our 2 ” superstars” are redundant besides being inneficient considering their pay scale. There is only one way to fix this. get rid of one of them. Anything else, including firing the coach, is a band aid and will not really fix anything.

      To me the obvious candidate is Melo because he simply is the easiest one to trade and get value for. We had a viable team with Amare before, why couldn’t we have one again now that we have all this talent avalaible. A judicious trade with Melo should bring even more talent. So why not do it.

    105. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      jon abbey:
      “built around”

      and if you really think Jerome Jordan would be even a slight upgrade on Joel Anthony, you should follow a different sport. seriously.

      Are your assessments so common sense that you don’t need to substantiate them in the slightest to feel that you’ve won an argument? Am I missing something that you and those of your ilk seem to inherently “get?”

      I’m at the gym four days a week, abbey. Don’t think I’m some fat middle-aged man who doesn’t understand how athletics work “in the real world.”

    106. jon abbey

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Are your assessments so common sense that you don’t need to substantiate them in the slightest to feel that you’ve won an argument? Am I missing something that you and those of your ilk seem to inherently “get?”

      I’m at the gym four days a week, abbey. Don’t think I’m some fat middle-aged man who doesn’t understand how athletics work “in the real world.”

      heh, that last paragraph is the absolute definition of non sequitur. you go to the gym so you understand professional team sports? ok then.

      anyway, Joel Anthony is a superb post defender for a title contender, and Jordan hasn’t shown anything yet past garbage time on a mediocre team. when Amare was dominating the league last year, Anthony was one of the very few guys who was able to shut him down one on one (this year that list is unfortunately quite long).

      here’s a quote from Spoelstra from January, not that this will matter to you:

      “He’s so impactful on the defensive end of the court. He can guard perimeter players on pick-and-rolls, get back to the rim and protect and save some of the mistakes that we make.”

      http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/22/2601853/miami-heats-erik-spoelstra-praises.html

    107. Bruno Almeida

      @111

      yeah, because Spoelstra surely would say that his player is terrible.

      I don’t dispute the fact that he’s important for the team and is a pretty good post defender, but using a Spoelstra quote to say it is pretty useless imo.

      I don’t think it’s too hard to “save some of the mistakes” when you have elite perimeter defenders all around you.

    108. Owen

      Wow, Jon Abbey, collegiate fencer. Why am I not surprised given his rapier wit? Well, actually I am, since your preferred weapon on this blog is a 12 foot broadsword… ;-)

      “That said, if every team began building strictly according to wins produced, after some time, its flaws would become apparent. We’d see that there is more value than WP claims to guys who consume possessions, as long as they don’t do it at a horribly inefficient rate.”

      I think I agree with this. But we are not anywhere near that point yet. We are getting there though, things have changed a lot in the last five years….

    109. Doug

      I wouldn’t say Joel Anthony is “terrible” so much as one-dimensional, and that dimension is team defense. He’s extremely long, great at disrupting the pick and roll, and lightning fast with his rotations. His help blocking is good too, but I’m not sure if it’s exceptional.

      So I think both Bruno and Jon are right, in that Joel Anthony has his strengths, which Spoelstra’s system magnifies in addition to the other 4 guys on the floor making up for his offensive futility. He’s worse than Jared Jeffries in that respect.

    110. Bruno Almeida

      Doug:
      I wouldn’t say Joel Anthony is “terrible” so much as one-dimensional, and that dimension is team defense. He’s extremely long, great at disrupting the pick and roll, and lightning fast with his rotations. His help blocking is good too, but I’m not sure if it’s exceptional.

      So I think both Bruno and Jon are right, in that Joel Anthony has his strengths, which Spoelstra’s system magnifies in addition to the other 4 guys on the floor making up for his offensive futility. He’s worse than Jared Jeffries in that respect.

      I agree… what I meant with saying that he was terrible is that he’s so incredibly inept on offense that he averages 5.2 points per 36 on a .579 TS% even if every single shot he takes is either a put back or a ball fed to him right at the rim.

      he’s a good defender, but not so good to the point that he covers up everything he takes off the table on offense.

      if they had a Center who could at least finish better at the rim, Miami would be even scarier… that’s why they play Haslem on crunch time, because you can’t possibly have Anthony on the court on crunch time on offense.

    111. nicos

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Miami should be looking high and low for a decent center if they want to win a championship. Having someone like Jerome Jordan (a tall seven-footer who can stand in the paint and put his arms in the air) would be a huge upgrade over Joel Anthony.

      While I wish D’A would have played Jordan some last night, I’m not sure how much of an upgrade he’d be over Anthony- Anthony really is pretty good defensively on both centers and power forwards. His TS% is higher than Jordan’s but he turns it over more so his ppp is slightly less. Jordan is a little bit better on the boards but enough to make up for the defensive versatility? Maybe, but hardly a sure thing. A guy like Koufos would be absolutely perfect but probably unattainable.

    112. A Voice of Reason

      Joel Anthony is a product of consistent defensive coaching and training in practice. He has really evolved as a post defender, and is very agile which allows his time in practice to translate into big anticipation plays in the games.

      The Heat are a hell of a defensive team, and its mainly because of the ground the big 2 can cover. Wade and James are the best two defenders at their positions (Tony Allen? Iman Shumpert?). Hypo: Amare for Bosh straight up. Amare becomes an awesome help defender, Bosh becomes the new NY ragdoll.

      Antoni is equally as stubborn a coach as Melo is a player. I happen to love Melo, and don’t care about being in the minority here. If we win a championship, it will be because Melo closed out at least 4 playoff games for us, not because the coach’s system was superior. Sure I scream at my TV each time he takes a contested jumper, but how many of those has he hit in his career? I saw him put up 33 points in a quarter. He’s got the game. He just needs to work inside out, not outside in. And he needs to start hitting his free throws again. He is a +passer and a +rebounder at his position. He will be here. He wanted to be here. Let’s support him, instead of destroy every little thing we don’t like.

    113. Bruno Almeida

      @120

      if Amare refuses to jump or to close out on shooters like he’s doing right now, I seriously doubt it.

    114. A Voice of Reason

      The point I am trying to make is that the Heat practice defense ad nauseum. It would rub off on Amare, just as its rubbed off on Bosh, who has become a pretty good help defender in his own right; learning to use his length to make entry passes tougher and tip rebounds. We don’t have a defensive culture. The Heat do. I am not saying Chris Bosh is KG in his prime, but he has gotten better defensively because of the philosophy of the coach.

    115. ruruland

      Not going to discuss anything Melo for the time being, but Knicks fans need to be aware that the Knicks changed their pick and roll defense last night just as I figured they would. They trapped the ball, cut way down on the initial scoring opportunities for the ball handler.

      They also helped A LOT better on penetration and action towards the basket.

      Of course, the weakness of that strategy, as we talked about two nights ago, was helping off shooters.

      Naturally, the Bucks got really hot last night shooting the ball — 13/26 from 3. Maybe 5 percent of teams that allow that kind of 3pt shooting win in regulation (it’s probably less than that).

      See for yourself (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_overtime=&c1stat=fg3&c1comp=gt&c1val=13&c2stat=fg3_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=.40&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts)

      Their were some rotation issues with each unit — those happen when once again we’re talking about guys not playing with each other. We saw miscummunication on rotations between Novak, Harrelson, JR, Melo, etc al.

      A lot of new combinations on the floor and when combined with a new strategy on defense, lead to more breakdowns than normal. We’re talking about the kind of breakdowns that occur in split-seconds — guys making insitinctive decisions.

      For all the certified morons who don’t think practice and reps matter, that’s probably on of the areas it matters most, especially when you’re trying to play defense without rim protection or plus interior rebounder.

    116. jon abbey

      one thing that THCJ and I agree on is that I’d like to have seen Jordan get some minutes with Chandler out.

      the depressing thing about Melo’s game last night was that in a game where there was virtually no D being played by either team, he somehow shot 4-14 in the final 41 minutes of the game.

    117. ruruland

      A Voice of Reason: The point I am trying to make is that the Heat practice defense ad nauseum. It would rub off on Amare, just as its rubbed off on Bosh, who has become a pretty good help defender in his own right; learning to use his length to make entry passes tougher and tip rebounds. We don’t have a defensive culture. The Heat do. I am not saying Chris Bosh is KG in his prime, but he has gotten better defensively because of the philosophy of the coach.

      I agree wholeheartedly. Defensive culture is everything.

      Their is so much offensive talent on this team, much of that doesn’t necessarily need MDA’s offense to be really succesfull.

      I don’t want to talk about that right now, but MDA is gone, let’s be honest.

    118. jon abbey

      glad to see you back, ruru. don’t let the haters get you down. I will say that one reason the Bucks “got really hot” is that a lot of those shots were WIDE open, no one within five feet of the shooters.

      Chandler is supposed to be back tomorrow, according to a one-line item in today’s Post.

    119. A Voice of Reason

      “For all the certified morons who don’t think practice and reps matter, that’s probably on of the areas it matters most, especially when you’re trying to play defense without rim protection or plus interior rebounder.”

      welcome back ruru, I am glad you didn’t leave.

    120. ruruland

      Also, Shumpert was once again lost on defense, getting beat off the dribble. His reputation, at times, far exceeds his impact.

      I think some of that is consistent role, I don’t think the defensive philosophy suits his strengths, nor do I think the right kind of defensive culture is in place to really get the most out of him — he’s a rookie, yes, that matters, too.

    121. A Voice of Reason

      jon abbey:
      glad to see you back, ruru. don’t let the haters get you down. I will say that one reason the Bucks “got really hot” is that a lot of those shots were WIDE open, no one within five feet of the shooters.

      Chandler is supposed to be back tomorrow, according to a one-line item in today’s Post.

      Where was our beloved Shump Shump on those rotations?? Oh yea, he played 5 minutes, including a minute late in the game which was laughable on the part of the coach..

    122. ruruland

      A Voice of Reason: “For all the certified morons who don’t think practice and reps matter, that’s probably on of the areas it matters most, especially when you’re trying to play defense without rim protection or plus interior rebounder.”welcome back ruru, I am glad you didn’t leave.

      I’m back under the condition that I don’t argue the whole Melo thing for the time being. I don’t think it’s constructive nor do I think we’re really getting anywhere. I have a lot of thoughts on it that I will share at a future time.

      A lot of other things to talk about.

      And I sort of lost it last night with the negativity. I’m going to try to stay away from the game threads. Glad to be back.

    123. jon abbey

      Shumpert has been better after halftime all season (and especially in the 4th), D’Antoni never gave him a chance after halftime yesterday.

    124. A Voice of Reason

      ruruland:
      Also, Shumpert was once again lost on defense, getting beat off the dribble. His reputation, at times, far exceeds his impact.

      I think some of that is consistent role, I don’t think the defensive philosophy suits his strengths, nor do I think the right kind of defensive culture is in place to really get the most out of him — he’s a rookie, yes, that matters, too.

      We need defined rotations! Shumpert needs to start, JR is historically a 6th man, and thrives in that spot. Fields needs to be 3rd string 2, second string 3

    125. jon abbey

      JR Smith looked pretty lost again after his good game in SA, and he is certainly no rookie.

    126. jon abbey

      A Voice of Reason: We need defined rotations! Shumpert needs to start, JR is historically a 6th man, and thrives in that spot. Fields needs to be 3rd string 2, second string 3

      wow, you really are “A Voice of Reason”. I couldn’t agree more.

    127. ruruland

      A Voice of Reason: Where was our beloved Shump Shump on those rotations?? Oh yea, he played 5 minutes, including a minute late in the game which was laughable on the part of the coach..

      I don’t see anything happening by the deadline, but their are too many pieces to bring aboard twith deferent skillsets.

      JR SMith is clearly the best for MDA’s offense, but he’s still a long way from being in a good place.

      Fields played very well last night, but again, he was playing the 3.

      Things will get better, a lot better, but it’s a lot to ask this assemblage of talent to play to its full talent with as many moving parts, changes and lack of reps.

    128. ruruland

      jon abbey: JR Smith looked pretty lost again after his good game in SA, and he is certainly no rookie.

      Yes, he did.

      No disagreement there.

    129. A Voice of Reason

      ruruland: I’m back under the condition that I don’t argue the whole Melo thing for the time being. I don’t think it’s constructive nor do I think we’re really getting anywhere. I have a lot of thoughts on it that I will share at a future time.

      A lot of other things to talk about.

      And I sort of lost it last night with the negativity. I’m going to try to stay away from the game threads. Glad to be back.

      Agreed on the negativity, and the continuous Melo bashing. It’s really disheartening because I have seen him play for years. The dude is a stud. Game threads are for reading only. I don’t post too much, but I read this blog daily. I personally enjoy your perspective.

    130. ruruland

      Also, Steve Novak is the biggest black hole on this team. Unbelivable shooter of course, but over the last two games he’s taken some really tough, bad shots, early in the clock or in transition when he had a couple of guys open for clean looks– guys that can actually shoot, too.

    131. A Voice of Reason

      jon abbey: wow, you really are “A Voice of Reason”. I couldn’t agree more.

      Well thank you Mr. Abbey. I appreciate that from you.

    132. A Voice of Reason

      ruruland:
      Also, Steve Novak is the biggest black hole on this team. Unbelivable shooter of course, but over the last two games he’s taken some really tough, bad shots, early in the clock or in transition when he had a couple of guys open for clean looks– guys that can actually shoot, too.

      He should not be allowed to dribble. When he puts the ball on the floor its a turnover every time. Has he hit a shot while moving at all this season?? Catch and Shoot and Sit. Thank you Mr. Novak

    133. ruruland

      A Voice of Reason: Agreed on the negativity, and the continuous Melo bashing. It’s really disheartening because I have seen him play for years. The dude is a stud. Game threads are for reading only. I don’t post too much, but I read this blog daily. I personally enjoy your perspective.

      Well, thanks. And I enjoy so many perspectives on this board, too. Even the ones I disagree with and those that I feel sort of underplay the nuances of things at times.

      But, it’s just really getting way outwith the level of vitriol with the Melo thing that I really don’t want to bring the issue up right now because there’s not a whole lot of room for rational discussion with some people.

      And, trust me, I understand the rational criticisms. the Knicks needed his activity on the flass last night and he didn’t bring it. While he and the other guys on the floor showed the kind of defense they can play when they turn it up, that might have been the turning point in the game–if he gets fouled a little lower on the arm that dunk goes in, however. Gooden fouled his hand and wrist, jarring the ball loose…. That’s another one of those plays that could have changed the season around (just as his shots in Boston had that potential).

      This team just needs a couple of wins…

    134. ruruland

      A Voice of Reason: He should not be allowed to dribble. When he puts the ball on the floor its a turnover every time. Has he hit a shot while moving at all this season?? Catch and Shoot and Sit. Thank you Mr. Novak

      Yeah, agreed. it can be tough too because if a defender closes on him, he can’t dribble the ball out to reset the offense– that hurs a lot because it means someone needs to come to him get and get the ball back– the spacing is screwed at that point.

    135. ruruland

      jon abbey: wow, you really are “A Voice of Reason”. I couldn’t agree more.

      Agree, Abbey, I’m all for starting Shump moving forward. I’m hoping that’s what we’ll see.

    136. Bruno Almeida

      ruruland:
      Also, Steve Novak is the biggest black hole on this team. Unbelivable shooter of course, but over the last two games he’s taken some really tough, bad shots, early in the clock or in transition when he had a couple of guys open for clean looks– guys that can actually shoot, too.

      that’s true, the whole “Novak is awesome” thing has apparently gone to his head, he’s taking some terrible shots as of late… he needs to adapt, he won’t get so many open looks anymore now that he’s “famous”.

    137. ruruland

      Bruno Almeida: that’s true, the whole “Novak is awesome” thing has apparently gone to his head, he’s taking some terrible shots as of late… he needs to adapt, he won’t get so many open looks anymore now that he’s “famous”.

      I’m not sure that he can.

      I mean, it’s not like his shooting is a secret. There’s a reason coaches opted to keep him off the floor. His defense and total inability to put up a fight down low have really hurt the last couple of games.

      I think you can hide him with Chandler or Jeffries for 10-15 minutes a game.

    138. A Voice of Reason

      He should be played exclusively at the 4. Anytime he’s on the perimeter, offense or defense, its a 3 ball or a disaster.

      JR Smith is the proverbial X factor. We need to get a few 16-24 point games from him. He’s probably our most well rounded playmaker. BD can’t finish, although he looked very good in spots last night. Lin drives too far, and gets trapped to easily. He needs to develop that D Rose/Wade/Parker floater from 7-12 feet. JR can slash, pass, and rise for the finish or shooting foul

    139. thenamestsam

      ruruland:
      Also, Steve Novak is the biggest black hole on this team. Unbelivable shooter of course, but over the last two games he’s taken some really tough, bad shots, early in the clock or in transition when he had a couple of guys open for clean looks– guys that can actually shoot, too.

      As much as we’ve all fallen in love with him, there’s a reason a guy like that is easily available. When he hits 65% of his threes for two weeks he looks amazing obviously, but anyone who thought that represented his actual talent level was deluding themselves. Once he starts hitting a more reasonable percentage he starts to look pretty…bad I guess is the only word for it. The guy is a 12th man type unless he’s hitting an unreal percentage from deep. His skillset is a good fit for this o, so maybe he’s a bit more than that for this team, but he’s not a guy who should play serious minutes for a team with any real ambitions.

    140. Bruno Almeida

      ruruland: I’m not sure that he can.

      I mean, it’s not like his shooting is a secret. There’s a reason coaches opted to keep him off the floor. His defense and total inability to put up a fight down low have really hurt the last couple of games.

      I think you can hide him with Chandler or Jeffries for 10-15 minutes a game.

      yeah, it’s been a big problem… probably we’re better off playing around 10 minutes a night on some specific lineups.

      I hope Harrelson comes back well, if he can hit the 3 consistently he’s much better than Novak.

    141. jon abbey

      I would cut Novak some slack for last night, as he was playing in his hometown in front of a lot of his family and friends, and so he left his comfort zone more than usual.

      but yeah, he needs a real defensive big man beside him or he gets exploited over and over on D.

    142. ruruland

      A Voice of Reason: He should be played exclusively at the 4. Anytime he’s on the perimeter, offense or defense, its a 3 ball or a disaster.JR Smith is the proverbial X factor. We need to get a few 16-24 point games from him. He’s probably our most well rounded playmaker. BD can’t finish, although he looked very good in spots last night. Lin drives too far, and gets trapped to easily. He needs to develop that D Rose/Wade/Parker floater from 7-12 feet. JR can slash, pass, and rise for the finish or shooting foul

      It’s there. There’s so much latent production that I have to believe is going to pop up at some point.

      It’s really unbelievable to me, at times, the things that have happened to this team since everyone came back. Maybe it’s karma for some of the breaks it caught during that win streak, but man, it’s so frustrating.

      Yeah, the Bucks got some good looks last night — but the Knicks made the proper defensive adjustment from the previous game. Their interior help defense was much improved. Some of those shots they hit were tough, contested.

      They were just hot, it’s not like they shoot that percentage often with those kind of looks.

      And, when you go back and look at that last play by Illyasova on the offensive rebound— Melo had come over to the weakside of the basket.

      First, Gooden had Amar’e about a foot outside of the basket– horrible position for a rebound.

      70 + percent of shots are going to come off the far side of the rim– and given where Amar’e was it was actually the right play for Melo to make, because if he’s not there helping out on Gooden, Gooden is clearly in position to get that rebound.

      But, of course, Melo gets a hand on it but tips it to Illyasova who goes to the front of the rim— just stuff like that there’s not a whole lot of explanation for.

    143. art vandelay

      Novak has singlehandedly won a couple of games for us this year (e.g. Dallas at home, Minnesota in Minny), so I wouldn’t be too hard on him folks….we as fans have been so fickle with this team and its players all season….one minute worshipping a player, next second wanting to send him to the scrap heap….this could be said about just about every player on the roster so far this season (sans chandler), though part of that is due to the inconsistent play we have seen across the board from everyone minus Chandler, resulting in a very mediocre record thus far.

      I think Novak will be quite useful, but only as that great stretch 4 burying money 3′s…his lack of rebounding and defense hurt us more I think than his shooting helps, however, without Jeffries and Chandler in (or at least one of those 2). I would limit his minutes until chandler returns (hopefully tomorrow), then return to 15 or so when they are back.

      Oh, and Shump absolutely has to be in the starting lineup and Fields moved to back-up role.

    144. Frank O.

      Glad to see all the love.
      I think Amare looked strong offensively.
      I have to think Shump needed the time. There’s no other reason I can imagine to keep him out.
      Fields played very well.

      Abbey, given your conversational style, I’m not surprised you fenced. Indeed, as soon as I read that, it made all the sense in the world. Interesting how character traits are reflected in words…lol

      Ruru, I think Melo is a stud, but he’s not fitting well in this system and his body language is bad. I think if he adapts to this system he could bump his efficienc into rarified air. God knows, if he moved off the ball, he’d be virtually undefendable. But his old habits will die hard.

    145. nicos

      ruruland:
      Not going to discuss anything Melo for the time being, but Knicks fans need to be aware that the Knicks changed their pick and roll defense last night just as I figured they would. They trapped the ball, cut way down on the initial scoring opportunities for the ball handler.

      They also helped A LOT better on penetration and action towards the basket.

      Of course, the weakness of that strategy, as we talked about two nights ago, was helping off shooters.

      Naturally, the Bucks got really hot last night shooting the ball — 13/26 from 3. Maybe 5 percent of teams that allow that kind of 3pt shooting win in regulation (it’s probably less than that).

      The problem was that guy’s were cheating in on the weak side (esp. Fields and Smith) for no good reason, or as often as not, just got caught looking at the ball and left Delfino and Dunleavy open for wide open shots or easy cuts. Amar’e and Lin actually played the pnr fairly well- I think Jennings only got into the lane once off of a screen and the roll man never killed them either. They trapped out too high and too long a couple of times but it was okay overall. I think guys were just so conscious that they might have to help that they lost track of their men. The last couple of years D’A's generally had one designated help guy- Jeffries, then Wilson Chandler after Jeffries was traded, now Chandler and Jeffries this year. Everyone else pretty much stays at home- so now with both of the helpers out, it’s clear the guys playing are struggling both with knowing when and where to help and whatever subsequent rotations are needed.

    146. A Voice of Reason

      Baron Davis needs to increase the volume on his leadership vocal. He sees the floor like Nash/Kidd/Lebron/ He knows where we need to be on the floor. Lin needs to learn what he can from the bearded sage.

      Lets Go Knicks!

    147. ruruland

      art vandelay: Novak has singlehandedly won a couple of games for us this year (e.g. Dallas at home, Minnesota in Minny), so I wouldn’t be too hard on him folks….we as fans have been so fickle with this team and its players all season….one minute worshipping a player, next second wanting to send him to the scrap heap….this could be said about just about every player on the roster so far this season (sans chandler), though part of that is due to the inconsistent play we have seen across the board from everyone minus Chandler, resulting in a very mediocre record thus far.I think Novak will be quite useful, but only as that great stretch 4 burying money 3?s…his lack of rebounding and defense hurt us more I think than his shooting helps, however, without Jeffries and Chandler in (or at least one of those 2). I would limit his minutes until chandler returns (hopefully tomorrow), then return to 15 or so when they are back.Oh, and Shump absolutely has to be in the starting lineup and Fields moved to back-up role.

      I wasn’t trying to be too hard on him. He’s been fantastic this year, huge boost.

      But as you mentioned, has to be on the floor with a defensive 5, or you’re going to give up as much or more than you get.

      On the bright side, the offense was fantastic last night, and there were some really good defensive possessions sprinkled throughout the game, many late— when you add in a Chandler to those plays the team can be pretty good defensively (as they’ve been most of the year).

      Yes, the spacing was better for Amar’e, and we know that the C is the primary PNR guy in this offense, but the playmaking was great last night– and Amar’e is moving better. Should we have expected fifferent for a guy getting back to his proper weight?

    148. ruruland

      nicos:

      Nicos, to me the PNR defense improved primarily because of the shift in stratgey.

      it was clear the Knicks were cognizant of clogging the paint as much as possible given the struggles of the previous game– of course, they run up against a team with a good stretch 4 and they shoot lights out.

      yes, there were issues getting back to shooters, but to me, there was a huge shift in focus on what they would give up..

      So, yeah, I agree with you for sure.

    149. A Voice of Reason

      What about a double pick and roll? WE all know that Amare is great as a roll man, and Chandler is also. WE also know that Amare’s pick and roll range is about 10 feet deeper than Chandler’s. Run a two pronged, two planed pick and roll first with Amare at 20 feet, then a quick second pick by Chandler. Amare pops to the elbow as Chandler rolls to the cup. As Amare pops, Melo cuts, JR spots up. Many options here, as each player draws attention from their primary defenders

    150. ruruland

      It’s funny because in 3 of these four games we’re mostly looking at totally disparate defensive issues..Some overlap, yeah, but pretty much totally different issues and strategies each game.

    151. nicos

      On Novak- he does lead the league in points per possession so I’d green light just about whatever shots he wants to take. I remember being pleasantly surprised that he was competing on the boards his first few games but it seems he’s completely given up even trying to get to the boards- his rebound rate is just a bit higher than Mike Bibby’s, that’s horrific for a 6’9″ player.

    152. Frank O.

      ruruland:
      It’s funny because in 3 of these four games we’re mostly looking at totally disparate defensive issues..Some overlap, yeah, but pretty much totally different issues and strategies each game.

      Coaches are casting about to find solutions for the absence of their two best interior defenders?

    153. art vandelay

      Also, I fully believe we will see at least one more big surge from this team between now and end of season to get solidly over .500…will it be enough to at least reach the 6th seed? Only time will tell….but this team’s modus operandi over the last season and a half has been to underachieve at first, struggling horrendously only to follow it up with a big winning streak (last season starting 3-8 including 6-game losing streak; then win 13 of next 14 games; then lose 6 straight in January and another 9 out of 10 after Melo trade; end season winning 7 straight). This season the ups and downs have been well chronicled (losing 11 of 13 in january; then 7-game winning streak during Linsanity; now having lost 7 of last 10).

      In other words, this team has been remarkably volatile when we chart its win-loss curve…I expect another big uptick in the near future, especially with a bunch of home games coming up again.

    154. The Infamous Cdiggy

      ruruland: …And, trust me, I understand the rational criticisms. the Knicks needed his activity on the flass last night and he didn’t bring it. While he and the other guys on the floor showed the kind of defense they can play when they turn it up, that might have been the turning point in the game–if he gets fouled a little lower on the arm that dunk goes in, however. Gooden fouled his hand and wrist, jarring the ball loose…. That’s another one of those plays that could have changed the season around (just as his shots in Boston had that potential).

      This team just needs a couple of wins…

      I really enjoy your statistical and evidence-filled breakdowns on your pro-Melo reasoning and observations of our rotations on D.

      If it means anything, Bill Simmons basically agrees with you – http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7666048/nba-trade-value-part-2 (scroll about a third down the page for his Melo ranking). What do you think of Simmons’ assessment?

    155. ruruland

      The Infamous Cdiggy: I really enjoy your statistical and evidence-filled breakdowns on your pro-Melo reasoning and observations of our rotations on D.If it means anything, Bill Simmons basically agrees with you – http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7666048/nba-trade-value-part-2 (scroll about a third down the page for his Melo ranking). What do you think of Simmons’ assessment?

      Yeah, I read that yesterday.I listn and read Simmons, so I kind of knew that was his perception, but I have quite a few thoughts on this but I want to see a few things play out first.

      One thing Art just mentioned was the up and down play the last two years…..

      The difference is that when you have a really talented team like the Knicks, when they start winning, when they finally get a couple of break and start believing… I think there’s sort of a psychological bar that gets raised that you always come back to. Doesn’t mean they won’t lose games, or a few in a row, but you never go back to prolonged losing streaks (sans injury).

      It’s not just that this team is talented. They have the right kind of mix of personalities— they have a smart humble point guard who we’ve seen can adapt his game in short order (what I saw last night defensively was very encouraging.), they have tough, defensive-minded center that’s been there. Their back-up point guard has been there, he’s a leader and a guy who is as good as anybody at both changing momentum and capitalizing on it. I absolutely believe everyone else’s personality can assimilate into that structure– but there are a lot of personalities, egos, and guys trying to live up to certain things.

    156. ruruland

      Melo has the world on his shoulders right now. When things go bad, he’s used to carrying the offense to bring it back– there’s a frustration and an anxiety there that’s troubling. It’s impacting his confidence and the rest of his game. Whenever he’s felt unwanted before, he goes through these kinds of things (but there’s a tremendous upside when he starts feeling better about himself within the team structure)… I think a lot of things are affecting his head. I think he sees that the Knicks function well with Lin running middle screen and roll. I think he understands that what he used to primarily do doesn’t fit into that offense s the first option– he’s played very well off the ball before, but it’s been quite some time.

      That kind of mindset is fitting into the cracks and crevasses and hoping your point guard delivers– Lin has missed Melo moving to the basket, particularly the first 3 or 4 games, quite a bit.

      You put yourslef in Melo’s position and you can understand– the guy is trying to figure out where and how he’s supposed to contribute. He wants so badly to do do what he’s always done, which is be the guy that is the horse on offense that wins you games. He wants to win badly, and he’s not quite sure how he can deliver for his team under the high expectations when he’s off the ball most of the time– that’s where I see the lack of certainty and confidence issues stemming from.

      Amar’e is somewhat similar. The guy has taken a back seat personality wise because, first, he had the athletic issues with his weight. When you aren’t dominating your opponent it’s pretty easy to lose the edge Amar’e had last year.

      The great thing is that both of those guys can recapture their super-egos, and there’s much more reason to believe they will than they won’t.

      I really like the combination of roles and personalities behind the main guys, too.

      This is more about guys figuring out exactly when and how they need to contribute.

    157. ruruland

      This team reminds me a lot of a couple of Nuggets teams, one in ’05 that started the year 15-24 and won 26 of its next 30 games, and the one in ’08 that played up and down until the end of the year.

      This team is undeniably more talented than either of those teams, signifcantly more so than the one in ’05.

      On both squads, Melo was right in the middle of the storm in terms of the negativity, the seemingly bad body language, just the palpable sense of frustration, disappointment, uncertainty and timid reactions you see when you watch this team (finger pointing, too)

      There are a lot of reasons for those issues, but they always compound when you lose.

      But, he and Amar’e have always come out of it– it may have taken longer in ’05 than it has this year.

      When this team gets a couple of wins and starts believing in itself — there’s a certain energy and assertiveness that the teams that believe in themselves display on both ends of the floor—it’s going to be wicked good.

      Frankly, this team is talented enough to beat Chicago or Miami or Indiana twice on back to back.

      You’d be a fool to ignore the flashes– the first half against Boston (the score was quite misleading) the run in the second half against Boston and Dallas, the offensive dominance in the first half against the Bucks, the last 8 minutes against the Bucks, the 70 point second half against Cleveland (a team that, btw, just won in Denver and OKC).

      What’s making it more challenging to get over that hump, besides the constant change of players on the floor and the lack of sustained continuity in lineups, is the fact that, as Simmons mentioned, the Knicks have a big target on their backs and are getting A efforts from teams.

      The Knicks just need one or two of those wins against a really good team to get over that hump.

      Melo’s used to winning, Amar’e is used to winning, Chandler, Baron was the undisputed leader of one of the great NBA runs– it will happen.

    158. The Infamous Cdiggy

      ruruland:
      Melo has the world on his shoulders right now. When things go bad, he’s used to carrying the offense to bring it back– there’s a frustration and an anxiety there that’s troubling. It’s impacting his confidence and the rest of his game. Whenever he’s felt unwanted before, he goes through these kinds of things (but there’s a tremendous upside when he starts feeling better about himself within the team structure)… I think a lot of things are affecting his head. I think he sees that the Knicks function well with Lin running middle screen and roll. I think he understands that what he used to primarily do doesn’t fit into that offense’s the first option– he’s played very well off the ball before, but it’s been quite some time.

      You’d have to be following Melo *very* closely throughout his career to make such observations. Apparently though, you have.

      ruruland:
      That kind of mindset is fitting into the cracks and crevasses and hoping your point guard delivers– Lin has missed Melo moving to the basket, particularly the first 3 or 4 games, quite a bit.

      I can agree, though I think he needs to have some patience with adjusting to new point guards (via Bill Simmons’ comments)

      ruruland:
      I really like the combination of roles and personalities behind the main guys, too.
      This is more about guys figuring out exactly when and how they need to contribute.

      I believe the ingredients are mostly here… then the question becomes is D’Antoni the right chef to mix n blend it all together?

    159. Doug

      ruruland your lnsight from your years following Denver are super valuable. It’s so easy for us as fans to project all sorts of good and evil onto players with limited information, simply because it creates a more palatable and less dissonant meta-narrative for us to follow.

    160. art vandelay

      Yes, I also really appreciate ruruland’s very nuanced and detailed analyses in defense of Melo, …the vitriol leveled ru’s way in the game thread last night (which I just read some of now) was completely out of line.

    161. A Voice of Reason

      Doug:
      ruruland your lnsight from your years following Denver are super valuable. It’s so easy for us as fans to project all sorts of good and evil onto players with limited information, simply because it creates a more palatable and less dissonant meta-narrative for us to follow.

      Agreed. I lived in the springs for three of Melo’s years in Denver, and I concur with ruru because I have seen what Melo can do. He has to find his place in this offense, but he’s a savvy offensive player that will get more comfortable as he figures out the strengths and weaknesses of his teammates.

    162. Loathing

      Last night at home:

      Me: Hey honey, you want ‘Melo?

      My wife (Celtics fan): Oh GOD no! I wouldn’t take ‘Melo if you paid me!

    163. ruruland

      Doug: ruruland your lnsight from your years following Denver are super valuable. It’s so easy for us as fans to project all sorts of good and evil onto players with limited information, simply because it creates a more palatable and less dissonant meta-narrative for us to follow.

      Right, and it gets very hard to convey those insights into easily digestable anecdotes or statistics.

      The criticism Melo faces now, certainly warranted in many respects, he’s received before– certainly not on this scale or amplified to this degree by a long shot.

      He’s an interesting kind of athlete in a sense because of how he reacts to challenges and the kind of challenges he’s faced. it seems like they’ve been perfectly incremental in some way.

      First, it was trying to live up to the billing of the No.3 choice in the draft, his name was mentioned alongside Lebron most of his early career– they were supposed to be the next Magic/Bird.

      He has a very good rookie year, but had some struggles early and just beyond the All-Star break. He was lost on defense (he played his whole career in the zone), and had a tendency for bad shots.

      But he starts to figure things out around March and comes up huge in the biggest games of the season as his team is trying to make the playoffs for the first time in nearly a decade– coming up big against the teams the Nuggets had to beat to make the playoffs.

      First it was Seattle, a game I was at, 19/29 for 41 points, clutch basket with under a minute left http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?
      gameId=240330007

      Then it was Portland, a team that was tied for the eight spot with Denver, basically a playoff game. With under a minute left, Melo ties the game twice with clutch jumpers, sending it into overtime, he scores 12 points in the final 6 minutes to lead his team to a playoff berth– a crowning achievement in those…

    164. limpidgimp

      Random comment: I really want to see JR Smith get into his groove and do well. Dude is ‘freakishly athletic’ and is such a complete offensive player. He is also human (all too human) in his emotional volatility, which endears him to me. Mad energy on the court.

    165. ruruland

      Most people know what he did at “Cuse, how he lead that team in the tournament — the level he played at… So again, some big swings in his rookie year, but he comes back in the biggest games of the year with his best.

      But, as so often been the case with Melo (career swings or in-year swings), he comes back in ’04 in horrible shape( the worst shape he’s ever been in)

      Through January of that year he shoots around 38 percent, the team is 15-24, it fires its coach (Jeff Bzedelik), it lets go of its interim coach (Michael Cooper), and hires George Karl.

      Remember, this is a team that had just traded for Kenyon Martin (3 first round picks and a max deal) and was expected to compete with Minnesota ( a team they showed really well against in the playoffs at home).

      The team was facing the same kind of questions this Knicks team faces, why are they underachieving to this extent and what’s wrong with Melo?

      Karl’s first game was at Milwaukee, ironically enough, a seemingly innocuous victory over the Bucks… But, something happened late in the third quarter of that game—-

      The team was getting it handed to them, down 12 points going into the fourth quarter.

      Those 12 minutes, to me, are what can make sports an almost mystical experience at times. There was no way to predict that those 12 minutes would lead to one of the great 40 game runs in NBA history… but it happened. A 26-4 run.

      Guys were just sick of losing, just fed up with it. The picked up their energy to a level they hadn’t been able to previously sustain for more than a few possessions at a time (sound familiar?) shots started to drop, guys started to feel good about each other and themselves—

      Melo scores 8 points in the fourth, goes 10-18 for 25, the Nuggets outscore the Bucks 38-20 in the fourth quarter, and it was on from there.
      http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=250128015

    166. The Infamous Cdiggy

      limpidgimp:
      Random comment: I really want to see JR Smith get into his groove and do well. Dude is ‘freakishly athletic’ and is such a complete offensive player. He is also human (all too human) in his emotional volatility, which endears him to me. Mad energy on the court.

      This is something that hasn’t been really touched on. He’s struggled or has been too quiet on O.

    167. A Voice of Reason

      @179 I touched it…146…

      He can be the best 6th man in the league. He’s truly James Harden with more toughness and less facial hair.

    168. jon abbey

      I’m actually getting pretty worried about the Smith situation, he’s obviously been trying hard to not be labelled as selfish in this new situation, but that’s led to both his own tentativeness and D’Antoni cutting his minutes at times.

      as I’ve said since the start, I’d have so much more confidence that good things were going to happen here if I had more confidence in D’Antoni.

    169. A Voice of Reason

      jon abbey:
      I’m actually getting pretty worried about the Smith situation, he’s obviously been trying hard to not be labelled as selfish in this new situation, but that’s led to both his own tentativeness and D’Antoni cutting his minutes at times.

      as I’ve said since the start, I’d have so much more confidence that good things were going to happen here if I had more confidence in D’Antoni.

      Agreed. Even in his interviews, there is the same sense of entitlement he had when answering if his system could win in Phoenix. He’s been drinking his own Kool-Aid for too long. No other coach needs a certain group of players…you get the players that management pays, and you coach them. The idea that these great basketball players have to adjust to a coach is appalling, IMO. Nowhere else in the NBA do you hear that. Doc saw what he had, and he coached to their strengths. We aren’t running the triangle. Coach your players, not your style.

    170. hoolahoop

      EB: Sometimes I look at Melo and think that he is just out of shape and can’t be constantly in motion. He’s incapable of playing at 100% for the whole game the way other players can.

      I sometimes think the same thing.

      Spree8: Melo’s problem is obvious…it’s not hard to see. It’s his EGO.

      And that’s a big problem.

      Owen: But my point re Marion and Melo is that Melo simply does not have the talent or athleticism to do what Marion did in his prime

      I think Melo has much more athleticism than Marion ever did, just not smart about how he uses it. Melo is deceptively strong and as smooth as anyone. Unfortunately, he’s selfish and stupid (b-ball IQ).

    171. ruruland

      Over the course of that amazing run on a really just average talent team, everything it was doing poorly in the first part of the year it did well. Something this Knicks team is more than capable of doing, but with much higher potential. Sure it got some breaks, but it was completely different team collectively, psychologically.

      In that 32-8 run, Melo went from shooting around 38 percent to shooting near 50 percent over the final two months– he defended MUCH better, as did everyone.

      http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/1975/year/2005/carmelo-anthony

      Those final two months carried over into the following season — but it was a brand new challenge–can this guy be a “superstar”, the top option on offense, the guy teams tilt towards and zone up? Can he produce like he did in the final two months of the year under those conditions?

      Once again, after struggling to adapt to being the primary offensive option early on, Melo figures it out — from 2005 to pre-Iverson 2006, it was as diverse as Melo’s offensive game has ever been, and as efficient and productive as its ever been over the course of around 100 contests.

      I personally think it started with a game against Dallas, where he hit the game-tying 3, lost in overtime– but he tore up one of the better teams in the league out to stop him– two games later he goes for 43 points against the Marion Suns, sinking the game-winning shot in overtime (the iconic shot of him with a bloody nose shooting a fadeway over Marion at the buzzer) (http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260110007)

      Melo hit the game-winning shot on the Rockets two days earlier. Over the course of 95 games between December of ’05 and December of ’06, Melo averages close to 30ppg on nearly 50 percent from the field (57.3TS%)

      Here’s an old gallery of some his gamewinners up until ’09 or so,

      http://cache.nba.com/nuggets/news/melo_winners_11_27_2010.html

      montage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM3vFs-DcSg

    172. hoolahoop

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I’m at the gym four days a week, abbey. Don’t think I’m some fat middle-aged man who doesn’t understand how athletics work “in the real world.”

      Good to clear that up. I always thought you were a fat middle aged guy.

    173. hoolahoop

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Having someone like Jerome Jordan (a tall seven-footer who can stand in the paint and put his arms in the air) would be a huge upgrade over Joel Anthony.

      I’m trying to think of a word that’s more extreme than “ridiculous” to describe that statement.

    174. BigBlueAL

      “No other coach needs a certain group of players…you get the players that management pays, and you coach them.”

      Which is why NBA coaches get fired all the time.

    175. jon abbey

      hoolahoop:

      I think Melo has much more athleticism than Marion ever did, just not smart about how he uses it. Melo is deceptively strong and as smooth as anyone. Unfortunately, he’s selfish and stupid (b-ball IQ).

      Marion was maybe the best athlete in the league for a few years early on in his career. his rebounding numbers as a thin and undersized guy were a tribute to his insane jumping ability as well as his incredibly quick second jump (jumping, landing, taking off again). interestingly his closest win share similarity score is Scottie Pippen, a similarly superior athlete.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mariosh01.html

    176. BigBlueAL

      Yeah, Shawn Marion his first few years in the NBA was a freakish athlete. Melo is strong and quick but I wouldnt call him a great athlete compared to someone like Marion.

    177. hoolahoop

      ruruland: Knicks fans need to be aware that the Knicks changed their pick and roll defense last night just as I figured they would. They trapped the ball, cut way down on the initial scoring opportunities for the ball handler.

      They also helped A LOT better on penetration and action towards the basket.

      Where do you come up with this stuff. All, but the astute observer, would read a comment like that and think it’s actually true and you’re a basketball genius.
      I saw no evidence of what you described. Lin was chasing Brandon, and the switching, causing temporary double teams has been going on for over a month.
      Just like I don’t see all the incredible things you say about Melo everyday since you got here.
      You have a gift the same as Mike Francesca. You say things with the utmost confidence, sounding completely believable – but are completely wrong.

    178. ruruland

      hoolahoop: Where do you come up with this stuff. All, but the astute observer, would read a comment like that and think it’s actually true and you’re a basketball genius.I saw no evidence of what you described. Lin was chasing Brandon, and the switching, causing temporary double teams has been going on for over a month.Just like I don’t see all the incredible things you say about Melo everyday since you got here.You have a gift the same as Mike Francesca. You say things with the utmost confidence, sounding completely believable – but are completely wrong.

      If you have NBALP we can go through one play at a time if you want. The Knicks did a lot more trapping of the ballhandler in the PNR, something they hadn’t done much of previous to that game, certainly not against the Spurs — they were killed by dribble penetration against that play.

      That’s why, facing a player somewhat similar in his ability to use the pick to get to the basket, they changed their strategy in that play, specifically aginst the point guard.

      They didn’t switch nearly as much as they did in the Boston game either. They’ve switched a lot less in the last three games (they still switch a lot). Maybe that’s becaue they couldn’t stay in front of Rondo, but it doesn’t take a basketball genius to see they’ve changed their pick and roll defense against the Bucks, espeically when AMar’e was involved (remember when I said that’s exactly what they needed to do after the Spurs game).

      The breakdown, of course, lead to open 3pt shots, which is something a few ofus talked about after the Spurs game as well.

    179. ruruland

      hoola” Frank, Nicos and I all talked about changing their pick and roll defense after the Spurs gam

      here was my post:

      “Woodson switched for a long time in Atlanta, and it’s a team-wide thing, which gives me the impression that it’s more philosophical and not necessarily strategic or tactical based on personnel.

      I think your analysis is spot on and I had the same interpretation. To me, given the inability to hedge and recover when Amar’e is involved, I’d like to see more outright double teams or blitzing of the ballhandler, helping off of the worst shooter, when the second big rotates to the roll man.

      You just have to get the ball out of the point guards hands at this point because we’re looking at a layup line.

      Amar’e is fast enough to do that, when he doesn’t have to worry about a recovery. Just has to stay really wide and allow the big to slip the screen.”

      If you don’t think the Knicks adjusted their pick and roll defense and started trapping with Amar’e, let’s go play by play with the video.

    180. hoolahoop

      Doug:
      ruruland your lnsight from your years following Denver are super valuable. It’s so easy for us as fans to project all sorts of good and evil onto players with limited information, simply because it creates a more palatable and less dissonant meta-narrative for us to follow.

      That’s assuming his analysis is correct. I think his whole Melo perception is completely misguided. We all see what’s been happening since he got here. Denver fans knew it, too.
      He’s been a big big bust – ruru always has an excuse for him.

    181. JC Knickfan

      Melo is averaging only 1 shoot below career average, but career worst % FG and %True Shooting. He shooting worst then the league average. Also beside for rookie he having career low on getting to foul line.

      He surgery during off-season. The first of NBA career.
      How much did surgery affect him? Did he train during off-season?

      At this point if I was Knick GM I would wait out until he returns to form. His trade value is way down. When he does return to form and Knicks are not a major contender, I would trade him.

      In meantime I like see Melo do PNR with Lin or Davis.

      http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/9/26/2450027/carmelo-anthony-surgery-new-york-knicks

    182. ruruland

      hoolahoop: That’s assuming his analysis is correct. I think his whole Melo perception is completely misguided. We all see what’s been happening since he got here. Denver fans knew it, too.He’s been a big big bust – ruru always has an excuse for him.

      Denver wanted to re-sign Melo…. Pay him a max contract and continue to build the offense around him… So that doesn’t quite fit your theory.

      Now, if you’re talking about the Denver fanbase, that’s the same fanbase that turned on John Elway when he said a few bad things about Tim Tebow– these are the kind of people you’re talking about.

      The same fans who turned on Jay Cutler when he was traded, and just a year later changed their tune on Cutler once McDaniels was fired.

      This is the same fanbase that booed Jake Plummer a year after leading his team to the AFC championship game, that booed Antonio McDyess when he came back, and that will turn on any player, regardless of their historical contribution, if they show the slightest desire to, regardless of circumstance,play elsewhere.

    183. Doug

      hoolahoop: That’s assuming his analysis is correct. I think his whole Melo perception is completely misguided. We all see what’s been happening since he got here. Denver fans knew it, too.
      He’s been a big big bust – ruru always has an excuse for him.

      To be quite honest I haven’t seen much of the same level of analysis from you, other than a tendency for sweeping value judgments and pithy sportswriter rhetoric. It’s pretty ironic you would accuse someone else of sounding like Mike Francesa.

    184. jon abbey

      watching David Lee and Nate Robinson take apart Dallas, why can’t we get guys like that? :)

    185. 2FOR18

      ruruland: Denver wanted to re-sign Melo…. Pay him a max contract and continue to build the offense around him… So that doesn’t quite fit your theory. Now, if you’re talking about the Denver fanbase, that’s the same fanbase that turned on John Elway when he said a few bad things about Tim Tebow– these are the kind of people you’re talking about.The same fans who turned on Jay Cutler when he was traded, and just a year later changed their tune on Cutler once McDaniels was fired. This is the same fanbase that booed Jake Plummer a year after leading his team to the AFC championship game, that booed Antonio McDyess when he came back, and that will turn on any player, regardless of their historical contribution, if they show the slightest desire to, regardless of circumstance,play elsewhere.

      Your posts are very detailed with statistical back-up, but it seems that you feel that you are the only person in the world who understands basketball. Your post comparing Melo to Durant jumped the shark – I lost respect for your objectivity with that post – please retract that comparison. Melo is a poor man’s Bernard King, and he is as dumb as a brick.
      Side note – I was there when they beat Seattle in the playoffs a million years ago – just wondering if you were there for that, as it was the best sports experience of my life. Deke, Mahmoud, Fonz, Pack, Stith,,,, that team was my fav of all time, and I’m a Knicks fan.
      “NO ONE SCORES IN THE HOUSE OF MUTOMBO!!!!”
      “RAUF THERE IT IS!”

    186. ruruland

      2FOR18: Side note – I was there when they beat Seattle in the playoffs a million years ago – just wondering if you were there for that, as it was the best sports experience of my life. Deke, Mahmoud, Fonz, Pack, Stith,,,, that team was my fav of all time, and I’m a Knicks fan.“NO ONE SCORES IN THE HOUSE OF MUTOMBO!!!!”“RAUF THERE IT IS!”

      Haha, yeah that was a lot of fun.

    187. Brian Cronin

      watching David Lee and Nate Robinson take apart Dallas, why can’t we get guys like that? :)

      Golden State wanted STAT a few years back, right? Come on, Lee for STAT! It would be a good move for the Knicks and it might maybe kinda sorta be a good move for the Warriors! It’s not like Lee is some under-the-radar guy, he’s making $11.6 million this year (by the way, I had no idea that the difference in salary between he and STAT was that significant) and the Warriors are on the hook for his contract for a full year longer than STAT’s contract, meaning the tail end of the Lee deal will likely be pretty brutal, so the Warriors have some reason for making the trade! Aw, who am I kidding? STAT is untradeable (for anyone good, that is).

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