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Sunday, September 21, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Feb 11 2012)

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Hey, Lin skeptics: Any more questions? (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:35:39 EDT)
    NEW YORK — At first, people thought he couldn’t play defense. Then, they said he couldn’t shoot. Next, it was that he hadn’t beaten anybody.
    After each breakout performance by Jeremy Lin, people found reasons to doubt what they were seeing.
    That’ll be much harder to do after Lin’s performance Friday night.
    The former Harvard star went for a career-high 38 points against the Los Angeles Lakers (there’s your quality opponent). He did so by knocking down three of his five shots from outside 18 feet (there’s your outside shooting).

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Shumpert sparks Knicks and stops Kobe (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:33:04 EDT)
    NEW YORK — If there’s one thing Iman Shumpert’s been consistently good at all season, even through his transition from the second unit to the starting five to back to the bench, it’s been his defense.
    After Friday’s play, the rookie backup shooting guard is fifth in the league in steals per game (2.04), and tonight he brought that to the Lakers game. He had to because Kobe Bryant was in town, and Shumpert did not disappoint as the Knicks’ lead defensive player on the perimeter in their 92-85 win over the Lakers.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Jeffries, Chandler getting it done on D (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:30:07 EDT)
    NEW YORK — As special as Jeremy Lin has been, especially Friday night scoring 38 points against the Lakers, the Knicks wouldn’t be on a roll right now without the defensive camaraderie developing between Tyson Chandler and Jared Jeffries.
    Carmelo and Amare who? Chandler and Jeffries are earning stripes as a formidable frontcourt duo in New York in Anthony and Stoudemire’s absence. Their combined play was punctuated against the Lakers, holding two of the best big men in the game, Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum, to only 19 combined points.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Kobe: Melo won't need to adjust to Lin (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:28:13 EDT)
    NEW YORK — As the legend of Jeremy Lin grows, the looming questions about Carmelo Anthony’s return are also gaining momentum.
    What’s going to happen when Anthony returns to the lineup? Will he bring the Knicks’ new and exciting ball movement to a screeching halt, or will Mike D’Antoni have to adjust is system to adapt to one of the league’s best scorers?

    Nathaniel S. Butler/NBAE via Getty ImagesWorried about the Knicks’ offense when Melo returns?

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] World Peace to J-Lin: Get some swag! (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 01:40:47 EDT)
    NEW YORK — When the announcer at Madison Square first called Metta World Peace’s name across the arena’s speakers, a sarcastic laughter rained down on to the court, aimed at the Queensbridge product formerly known as Ron Artest.
    The Lakers’ World Peace knows how to leave an impression. And he has some advice on how Jeremy Lin can do the same.
    “Get some swag,” World Peace was quoted as saying by Dave McMenamin of ESPNLosAngeles.com, when asked about the Knicks’ emerging young star.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Lin makes Lakers believe the hype (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 01:35:09 EDT)
    Chris Chambers/Getty ImagesJeremy Lin left the Lakers in his wake on Friday night.NEW YORK — Even though Jeremy Lin torched the Lakers, outplayed Kobe Bryant and practically turned Madison Square Garden upside down, Los Angeles center Andrew Bynum figures his team did Lin a favor.
    “Today, we just added to his hype and kept him in the league for 10 years,” Bynum said.
    It might not be hype anymore. Lin dropped a career-high 38 points, along with seven assists and four rebounds, as the Knicks beat the Lakers, 92-85, for their fourth straight win.

  • [ESPN.com - New York Knicks] Five Lin-sane stats from Lakers game (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 01:14:07 EDT)
    ESPN Stats & InformationThis could very well be a regular postgame column if Jeremy Lin keeps this up. Every game, he’s setting new records and improving the Knicks’ offensive efficiency.
    Here are five eye-catchers after the starting point guard led his team to a 92-85 victory over the Lakers:
    1.) Lin’s 38 points Friday night, the most for any Knick this season, gave him 89 points in three starts. That’s the most by any player in his first three career starts as a pro since the NBA-ABA merger in 1976-77.

  • [New York Post] Knicks’ Lin cites Tebow as ‘inspiration’ (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 05:09:32 -0500)
    Jeremy Lin, who has been compared with Tim Tebow because of his religious bent and underdog role, said the Broncos quarterback has been an inspiration.
    Lin, who often praises God in remarks to the media, said he may become a minister after his NBA career. Tebow is known for his…

  • [New York Post] The Linderella story rolls on: Jeremy drops 38 in Knicks’ win over Lakers (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 05:55:13 -0500)
    Now Kobe Bryant knows his name. Does he ever.
    The day before last night’s Knicks-Lakers showdown, Bryant claimed he had “no idea” what “Linsanity” was. Bryant got belted in the face with it last night as the Knicks new point-guard phenomenon Jeremy Lin ruled the frenzied Garden again, humiliated…

  • [New York Post] Believe the hype, because it’s for real (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:56:39 -0500)
    What happens when the hype doesn’t do justice to the truth? When the breathless hysteria isn’t equal to the black-and-white of a stat sheet, or the relentless roar of an arena in full, epic spasm? When you empty the thesaurus of adjectives and try inventing new ones, like…

  • [New York Post] Yao takes Lin under huge wings (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 05:13:05 -0500)
    After his career-high 38-point night in the Knicks’ 92-85 triumph over the Lakers last night at the Garden, Jeremy Lin revealed he’s close to 7-fooot-5 Chinese basketball legend Yao Ming, who retired more than a year ago because of foot problems and lives in Shanghai.
    “I actually talk to…

  • [New York Post] Impressed Kobe gives Jeremy high marks (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 05:11:43 -0500)
    Kobe Bryant came into the Garden last night having said he didn’t know much about Jeremy Lin and what “Linsanityâ? was all about.
    He left on the wrong side of a 92-85 Knicks victory, saying the young guard played phenomenally and shredded every game plan the Lakers had drawn…

  • [New York Post] Amar’e mourns mentor (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 05:00:51 -0500)
    LAKE WALES, Fla. â?? Hazell Stoudemire was a big brother in every sense of the word and not just because he was such a big man.
    When Knicks star Amar’e Stoudemire was a baby, it was Hazell who would heat up his bottle on the stove, his uncle, Earnest Stoudemire…

  • [New York Post] New star watchers have a ball (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:59:47 -0500)
    When Mike Chen was watching Jeremy Lin play at Palo Alto High School, he couldn’t imagine Lin playing in the NBA.
    “He was good at basketball, but he was a high school player,â? said Chen, 21, who moved to Palo Alto after spending his elementary school years in Taiwan…

  • [New York Post] Loving all the Lin-genious headlines (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:36:05 -0500)
    If you have a Jeremy Lin pun, the Knicks new point-guard sensation wouldn’t mind hearing it.
    While admitting he was overwhelmed by the “Linsaneâ? attention, Lin praised media and fans for the puns swirling through the city. The Knicks upped their “Linning streak” to four with the undrafted Harvard…

  • [New York Newsday] Lin (38 points) leads Knicks past Lakers (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:41:24 EST)
    Jeremy Lin enhanced his status as the NBA's new bright young star and probably earned the respect of Kobe Bryant in the process with another headshaking performance Friday night.

  • [New York Newsday] Lakers can't help noticing Lin (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:32:17 EST)
    Who could better appreciate The Jeremy Lin Story, this pro basketball version of "Rocky" and "Rudy" together, than the team from Hollywood? Yes, the Lakers know a lot more about Lin than they did at this time last week, and yes, they appreciate the script.

  • [New York Daily News] Know me now, Kobe? Lin scorches Lakers (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:30:23 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin apparently is for real. Just ask Kobe Bryant. Lin, if you can believe it, out-Kobed one of the NBA’s all-time great players by scoring a career-high 38 points in the Knicks’ eye-opening 92-85 victory Friday night.

  • [New York Daily News] Linsanity drives Lakers crazy (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:22:14 GMT)
    It’ s officially Linsanity. Officially because Jeremy Lin outdueled Kobe Bryant at the Garden Friday night. That’s not easy to write, nor is it easy if you happen to be a perennial All-Star who wears No. 24 for the Lakers.

  • [New York Daily News] D’Antoni’s move has been a turning point (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:17:22 GMT)
    Three other point guards had to fail while another had to suffer a medical setback before Jeremy Lin finally got his chance. Mike D’Antoni may have found something in the Harvard graduate, but the burning question is: why did it take so long?

  • [New York Daily News] Lin’s brother makes noise for Hamilton College (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:01:42 GMT)
    Two hundred and forty-five miles to the northwest of the World’s Most Famous Arena â?? where his older brother Jeremy was simultaneously schooling Kobe Bryant â?? the more subtle version of “Linsanityâ? unfolded on the hardcourt of Scott Field House at tiny, Division-III Hamilton College.

  • [New York Times] Knicks 92, Lakers 85: With 38 Points, the Legend Grows (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:45:50 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin’s joyride rolled onward as the Knicks defeated the Lakers at Madison Square Garden for their fourth straight victory.

  • [New York Times] At SoHo Bar, Jeremy Lin’s Fans Share His Heritage (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:04:04 GMT)
    Asian-Americans, some of them newly minted basketball fans, gathered Friday at Gatsby’s bar to watch Jeremy Lin’s performance.

  • [New York Times] Eddie Jordan Goes From N.B.A. to High School (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:09:07 GMT)
    Eddie Jordan, 57, fired as coach of the Philadelphia 76ers in 2010, is coaching freshmen at his alma mater, Archbishop Carroll High School in Washington.

  • [New York Times] Sluggish First Quarter Hurt Bryant and Lakers vs. Knicks (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:09:07 GMT)
    Lost amid the unadulterated giddiness in the Garden over Jeremy Lin was the reality that Kobe Bryant’s disappointing game will be his only visit to the area this year.

  • [New York Times] For Knicks, Topic of Conversation Stays Focused on Lin (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 05:42:25 GMT)
    On Friday morning, the news media did not ask Landry Fields about guarding Kobe Bryant later that evening. The questions centered on Jeremy Lin.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Nowitzki Outduels Love As Mavericks Top Timberwolves, 104-97 (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:07:38 GMT)
    Dirk Nowitzki scored a season-high 33 points Friday, winning a matchup of Western Conference All-Star power forwards in Minneapolis and helping the Mavericks stave off a Minnesota rally.

  • [New York Times] Lin Outduels Kobe, Leads Knicks to Another Win (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:13:30 GMT)
    “Linsanity” reigned at Madison Square Garden for another night on Friday as blossoming point guard Jeremy Lin outdueled Kobe Bryant to lead the New York Knicks to a fourth consecutive win with a 92-85 victory over the Los Angeles Lakers.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Upend Jazz 101-87 (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:48:29 GMT)
    Russell Westbrook scored 28 points and Kevin Durant had 19 points to help the Oklahoma City Thunder beat the Utah Jazz 101-87 on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Lin Outduels Kobe to Lift Knicks to Fourth Win in a Row (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:34:43 GMT)
    “Linsanity” reigned at Madison Square Garden for another night Friday as point guard Jeremy Lin outdueled Kobe Bryant to lead the New York Knicks to a fourth straight win with a 92-85 victory over the Los Angeles Lakers.

  • [New York Times] Grizzlies Upend Pacers 98-92 (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:21:49 GMT)
    Rudy Gay scored 21 points, Marreese Speights added a season-high 19 points and nine rebounds and the Memphis Grizzlies defeated the Indiana Pacers 98-92 on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Lin Scores 38 to Lead Knicks Over Lakers 92-85 (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:33:33 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin outplayed Kobe Bryant, ended the mighty Lakers’ dominance of the Knicks and then tried to pretend it was just another game.

  • [New York Times] Mavericks Hold Off T-Wolves 104-97 Behind Nowitzki (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:48:28 GMT)
    Dirk Nowitzki welcomed Kevin Love back from his two-game suspension with a season-high 33 points, winning the matchup of Western Conference All-Star power forwards and helping the Dallas Mavericks stave off a Minnesota rally with 104-97 victory over the Timberwolves on Friday.

  • [New York Times] Crawford Leads Trail Blazers Past Hornets, 94-86 (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:12:55 GMT)
    Jamal Crawford scored a season-high 31 points, and the Portland Trail Blazers snapped a two-game skid while handing New Orleans its eighth straight loss, 94-86 on Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Jennings’ 24 Lifts Bucks Past Cavs 113-112 in OT (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:36:30 GMT)
    Scott Skiles knew the Bucks needed a spark.

  • [New York Times] Pistons Win 4th Straight, 109-92 Over Nets (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:12:53 GMT)
    Greg Monroe had 18 points and 11 rebounds, and the Detroit Pistons routed the New Jersey Nets 109-92 Friday night for their fourth straight victory.

  • [New York Times] Smith Scores 23 as Hawks Slip Past Magic in OT (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:09:58 GMT)
    Josh Smith had 23 points and 19 rebounds, and the Atlanta Hawks hit enough free throws late in overtime to slip past the Orlando Magic 89-87 Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Paul Lifts Clippers Over Sixers 78-77 (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:04:03 GMT)
    Chris Paul had 24 points, including the game-winning 17-footer with 3.2 seconds left, Blake Griffin added 16 points and 11 rebounds and the Los Angeles Clippers defeated the Philadelphia 76ers 78-77 on Friday.

  • [New York Times] DeRozan Scores 21 as Raptors Shock Celtics (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:48:34 GMT)
    DeMar DeRozan scored 21 points, Jose Calderon had 17 points and 14 rebounds and the Toronto Raptors beat Boston 86-74 on Friday for their third win in the past 20 meetings with the Celtics.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Taking Ineptness to New Lows (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 05:19:59 GMT)
    Through Thursday’s games, the Charlotte Bobcats owned the league’s worst record, at 3-22. But that only begins to describe how bad Charlotte has been.

  • [New York Times] TV Sports: Lin’s Powers Are Limited, at Least in the Cable World (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:04:13 GMT)
    Not everyone can watch the Knicks’ Jeremy Lin and join the Linsanity because the MSG Network and Time Warner Cable aren’t talking.

  • [New York Times] #trendingnyc: Jeremy Lin’s Rise, Charted in Tweets (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 05:03:14 GMT)
    Jeremy Lin, the Harvard-educated, undrafted point guard for the New York Knicks, ruled Twitter from the moment he wandered onto the court in a game against the Nets.

  • [New York Times] Celtics’ Pierce a Rare Breed in Ever-Changing NBA (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:31:36 GMT)
    Paul Pierce secured his place alongside the best Boston Celtics of all time this week in the twilight of a possible Hall of Fame career that was almost cut short by a brutal stabbing nearly 12 years ago.

  • [New York Times] Bulls Top Bobcats 95-64, Move to 5-1 Without Rose (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:48:32 GMT)
    No Derrick Rose? No problem.

  • [New York Times] Wade Scores 26, Bosh 24; Heat Beat Wizards 106-89 (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:42:33 GMT)
    Dwyane Wade scored 26 points, putting in more than his share of poetry-in-motion moments during a second-quarter run, and the Miami Heat topped the Washington Wizards 106-89 Friday night.

  • [New York Times] Linsanity Takes Over the NBA After New Knicks Hero (Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:07:37 GMT)
    His university classmates may be thriving in law school, at brokerage houses and on the early rungs up the corporate ladder, but Jeremy Lin is blazing a trail as the sudden savior of the New York Knicks.

  • 145 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Feb 11 2012)

    1. danvt

      My neighbor asked me if we were going to get Nash in the offseason and I thought to myself, “Maybe we don’t need him”. Am I kidding me?

      I just don’t know what to think right now. I have never seen anything like this. He was, by far, the best player on the floor and it was THE LAKERS.

      HE REALLY REMINDS ME OF THE AFOREMENTIONED STEVE AND OF…WAIT FOR IT…JASON KIDD. I’m getting dizzy as I’m typing. This can’t be real, it just can’t. He’s got that other dimension to his game. That same gorgeous creativity. The Knicks are making other basketball teams look conventional and boring right now. I can’t believe this, I won’t believe this. Ten years of Charlie Brown trying to kick the football and now this. The amazing chaos of the universe delivering this savior unto us. Wait a minute, what did I just type?

    2. Gideon Zaga

      KOBE clearly trying to undermine the Knicks and trying to get into Melo’s head. We love this, thank God he was able to handle the scoring load. Guess what when Melo and STAT get back whoooooo they sky is the limit, this basically a steve nash with stat and melo or a d rose with a stat and Melo. Watch out for the Knicks NBA.

    3. Jacob

      Here’s a thought: this Lin frenzy is starting to remind me of the hype surrounding Michael Chang, back when he beat Ivan Lendl at Roland Garros… In 1989.

      Similar storyline: (American-)Asian underdog comes out of nowhere to dominate sport. What’s more – even as the hype builds, he keeps surpassing expectations.

      Just a great narrative.

    4. Gideon Zaga

      The Year of the Dragon, the Dragon breathes fire on the Evil Black Mamba, an anime has already been made LOL

    5. d-mar

      Was at the game, probably the most fun I’ve had at MSG since the David Lee tip in game, but that was just one play.

      One thing that might get overlooked in all the Linsanity is the absolutely ferocious defense we played the entire game, probably our best defensive effort of the season. We made Bynum look like a stiff, and doubled Kobe at freakin’ midcourt! The guys were just into it big time, the defensive rotations were great, and once again Jeffries was the x-factor. You watch a game in person and you appreciate him even more, he’s everywhere on defense, breaking up plays, doubling and quickly recovering. I’m becoming a huge JJ fan, never thought I’d say that!

    6. Jake S.

      Is anyone else deeply unsettled by all this? Minus the tears and seizures, I feel like one of those crazed fans at a Michael Jackson concert in the 80′s.

    7. ess-dog

      Lin reminds me a hell of a lot of John Stockton. His passing is a little less pinpoint as of now, but Lin utilizes the same floaters and fadeaways. He’s a joy to watch.

      I hope Melo gets his outside shooting touch back when he returns, because that is what we’re going to need from him in this new lineup.

      I actually think Melo will mesh pretty well and I’m excited to have him back. The hope is that Lin will essentially take away all the unnecessary dribbling that Melo does and just get him the ball in ideal spots. Also exciting is that whoever gets up an inside shot (Melo on the block, Chandler or Amare off the roll) we will have two or three great rebounders for their position crashing the boards: Melo, Fields and Chandler.

    8. Z

      Not sure if Morey mentioned it in any of his mea culpa tweets, but it’s somewhat ironic that by waiving Lin he may have ruined his chances at getting a lottery pick this coming summer.

    9. hoolahoop

      To all young, and not so young, knicks’ fans.
      I’ve been rooting for the knicks for a long long long long time.
      These past few games have been the most fun it’s been to be a knicks fan since the ’69 knicks won the championship.
      Enjoy.

    10. tastycakes

      So is there a definitive answer on his Early Bird rights? Just wondering if we’re going to get Gilbert Arenas’ed here or something.

      Or we prematurely sign him to a max deal and he takes off his mask and we see that, all along, it was Chris Duhon underneath

    11. hoolahoop

      The big question now is Melo.
      Amare will fit like a glove with Lin. If Melo can find his proper role in this dance, all I got to say to Boston, Chicago and Miami is “Bring it on!”

    12. Z-man

      While I am totally gaga over Lin and swooning in the hype, the truth is that I see it as validation of a point I’ve held fast to all year: the PG play was so historically horrific that you coulod not possibly judge the rest of the team. Lin has proven that he is a legit NBA PG. He has carried us to wins over 2 bad teams and 2 tired teams on road trips (Lakers coming off of a huge OT win on the end of a 5-game road trip, stepping into a Linsanity-frenzied Garden). He has also brought out the best in every other player on the floor, like any good NBA PG should. So now, we don’t have to wait for BD to determine what kind of team we have. Lin will allow us to see that. That’s his most important value to us. Even if the hype about Lin dies down and he comes back to earth and plsys more like a Felton or a Duhon or a poor man’s Nash/Stockton/Kidd/Barea, we now know that it’s not about Amare or Melo, it’s about having a PG that can get out of his own way.

      I wonder if D’Antoni is a religious man, because somehow his fortunes have turned in the unlikeliest of ways. Damn, the games just can’t come fast enough!

    13. Z-man

      hoolahoop: To all young, and not so young, knicks’ fans.I’ve been rooting for the knicks for a long long long long time.These past few games have been the most fun it’s been to be a knicks fan since the ’69 knicks won the championship.Enjoy.

      Wow, this is a ridiculous statement, were you awake at all during the 90′s? It’s good times, but we are still not even a playoff seed yet. This is one baby step.

    14. Spree8nyk8

      well, this might sound ridiculous, but I think you can pencil in Lin as next years starting all star pg for the East, because if they put his name on the ballot. China will take care of the rest.

    15. KnicksFanInVA

      D’Antoni should be able to get the most out of Melo now that we have a legit PG. He had Joe Johnson in Phoenix, granted Joe was still developing, but Melo could efficiently play the Joe Johnson role and let Lin and Amare do damage with the PNR.

    16. Mulligan

      hoolahoop:
      The big question now is Melo.
      Amare will fit like a glove with Lin. If Melo can find his proper role in this dance, all I got to say to Boston, Chicago and Miami is “Bring it on!”

      Well, it’s not like Melo won’t shoot it if he’s got an open look. Lin’s penetration and passing will keep opposing defenses on edge enough to create plenty of open looks. Will make it much easier on Melo.

    17. Gideon Zaga

      Stop this Melo wont fit it crap, you’re not a casual fan, like a smartphone you are a smartfan Melo will fit, he has always fit with great players, all star games, olympics, playing with chauncey and cp in the summer league. He will not just fit, he will fit well.

    18. Gideon Zaga

      Yeah this is great cos I’m never a fan of point guard oriented teams where the best player on the team is the pg by far as Isiah was, but im glad how we have a sort of Celtic like feel, where we have a big 4 instead of a Big 3 and he’s not going to take any pressure even if they lose. If they lose all the blame will go on the big guys.

    19. KnickfaninNJ

      I think Lin may have been over looked by a lot of teams. Of because he’s Asian American but because he went to Harvard. GMs just don’t trust stats from weaker. Ollege leagues. The same thing basically happened to Fields.

    20. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I’m just worried that when Melo and Amar’e come back, they’ll be just as effective as they were before. I can’t imagine that that’ll be the case (I would imagine that Amar’e could return to top form, personal issues notwithstanding), but how is Melo going to adjust to team-oriented ball after ten-plus years of being the “alpha dog?”

      Maybe this is why I’m not a GM, but I would trade Melo for a pair of first rounders and a high efficiency SF right about now. Again, we’re playing the risk game with him: does he come back and disrupt this beautiful passing game with his iso bullshit?

    21. Gideon Zaga

      I LIKE what Broussard said about Melo fitting in, Melo knows that NY will either make you or break you and for the sake of legacy he will have to fit in. At the end of the he wants to win so it’s gonna be a give and take.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      I’m just worried that when Melo and Amar’e come back, they’ll be just as effective as they were before. I can’t imagine that that’ll be the case (I would imagine that Amar’e could return to top form, personal issues notwithstanding), but how is Melo going to adjust to team-oriented ball after ten-plus years of being the “alpha dog?”

      Maybe this is why I’m not a GM, but I would trade Melo for a pair of first rounders and a high efficiency SF right about now. Again, we’re playing the risk game with him: does he come back and disrupt this beautiful passing game with his iso bullshit?

    22. Gideon Zaga

      I have to admit that even I not being very fond of stats, took time to look at PAWS in detail last night. I must say im still not sold but it makes very intrigueing arguments.

    23. Gideon Zaga

      Really dude come on or do u just love the drama of the Knicks woes. He will have his big guns soon so he won’t have the pressure of dropping 20+ every night.

      villainx:
      It’s going to be horrible when Lin goes 2-18 in a big game.

    24. The Sominator

      Is there any chance we can lock him up before the season is over. A 3-year at 6.5 mil would seem reasonable. Probably too much now, but he brings so much global exposure to the Knicks. His jersey sales alone could match his contract for the coming years.

      tastycakes:
      So is there a definitive answer on his Early Bird rights?Just wondering if we’re going to get Gilbert Arenas’ed here or something.

      Or we prematurely sign him to a max deal and he takes off his mask and we see that, all along, it was Chris Duhon underneath

    25. Spree8nyk8

      Unless he has a big dropoff he’s gonna get the most we can give him which I think is 3 yrs @ 5m. Which will still be a steal

    26. Z-man

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I’m just worried that when Melo and Amar’e come back, they’ll be just as effective as they were before. I can’t imagine that that’ll be the case (I would imagine that Amar’e could return to top form, personal issues notwithstanding), but how is Melo going to adjust to team-oriented ball after ten-plus years of being the “alpha dog?”Maybe this is why I’m not a GM, but I would trade Melo for a pair of first rounders and a high efficiency SF right about now. Again, we’re playing the risk game with him: does he come back and disrupt this beautiful passing game with his iso bullshit?

      Again, it was impossible to determine anything w/o a legit PG, beyond Melo and Amare don’t have the games to live withot one. Your concerns are fair, but to conclude that the best course of action is to trade Melo before we even see whether this team can flourish as currently constructed is pretty doctrinaire. Having Lin’s coming out party w/o Melo and STAT might make them (really, just Melo) realize the possibilities of playing team ball. I also think that if Melo comes back and disrupts this mania with selfish play, the MSG crowd and the media will run him out of town. Realyl, could you have scripted this any better as a test for whether Melo can adapt?

    27. Z-man

      Also, it is pretty obvious that Tyson Chandler and Jeffries have established themselves as vocal leaders and consummate team players during this stretch, and I can see them, especially Chandler, not taking kindly to any primadonna stuff on Melo’s part. In that regard, I am very optimistic about the chemistry issue.

    28. Z-man

      PS how smart is the decision to ditch Billups and throw the works at Chandler looking now? The decision to go big rather than small suggested that it is harder, and more important, to find a good big than a good PG.

    29. tastycakes

      We certainly know Stat plays better when he has a PG who can run a pick and roll. So we’ll see very soon if he’s still got anything left or if he’s at the beginning of a steep decline.

      Melo has also played on good teams with good guards, so there’s reason to believe that if he’s healthy, he can be good now that there is somebody else who can initiate the offense.

      I’m with THCJ — I’d do the inverse Melo trade today in a heartbeat (Gallo + picks?) or take what the Nets gave up for Deron (even though I don’t think Favors is going to be good)… and there must be another team out there who’d still be willing to trade picks and young talent for Melo. But I wanted that before Lin’s emergence (which still could be a mirage you know).

      God, that was a fun basketball game to watch last night. Rubio-Lin tonight!!!

    30. The Sominator

      Melo was buying into the system and playing good ball movement prior to the injury. After getting injured, Melo has been the biggest superfan during this 4-game stretch. Watching these games you would think that Melo realizes that he does not need to take 27 shots/game. Most importantly, the rise of Lin will demote Melo from being the primary ball-carrier.

    31. villainx

      Gideon Zaga:
      Really dude come on or do u just love the drama of the Knicks woes.He will have his big guns soon so he won’t have the pressure of dropping 20+ every night.

      Haha, I’d have to agree that this is potentially best Knick team since before I was aware of basketball, that’s 1990 onward.

      Combination of plus defense and now plus offense, but also executed in a beautiful and graceful style. So terrific.

      But I’m tempering my excitement. Remembering that even the really bad recent Knicks team went on a couple of good hot streaks only to slide back. I believe in Lin, but players also sometimes buy into their hype too much too.

    32. Z-man

      Melo has also been taking a beating, so playing with a PG like Lin might help him stay healthy if he can pick his spots more.

    33. villainx

      Man, if Melo takes 27 shots per game when he comes back, the only thing I’m thinking he’s going to score a lot and it’s going to be in the flow of the game.

      I think Melo realizes this isn’t his team, per se, as it might have been in the past with his other teams. This is Stat and Chandler’s team as much as Melo. So I don’t think it’s necessarily buying into D’Antoni or Lin, but playing team ball.

    34. LamontWallace

      The Sominator:
      Melo was buying into the system and playing good ball movement prior to the injury.After getting injured, Melo has been the biggest superfan during this 4-game stretch.Watching these games you would think that Melo realizes that he does not need to take 27 shots/game.Most importantly, the rise of Lin will demote Melo from being the primary ball-carrier.

      I don’t think it is a demotion as much as it is an opportunity to narrow his game and improve his efficiency. Melo coming of screens and doing backdoor cuts could be dangerous. I also expect to see him playing give in go with Lin from the low post. I really expect to see great games from him. He is a smart basketball player it is just with his size and skillset expecting him to play pick and roll, drive and dish basketball a la Lebron is a mistake.

    35. rohank

      Slapping 5
      They put on their glasses
      Landry opens a book
      Lin flips through a few pages
      They take off their glasses and put them in their shirt-pockets
      They point to the sky and move on.

      NERDS!

    36. hoolahoop

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      I’m just worried that when Melo and Amar’e come back, they’ll be just as effective as they were before. I can’t imagine that that’ll be the case (I would imagine that Amar’e could return to top form, personal issues notwithstanding), but how is Melo going to adjust to team-oriented ball after ten-plus years of being the “alpha dog?”

      Maybe this is why I’m not a GM, but I would trade Melo for a pair of first rounders and a high efficiency SF right about now. Again, we’re playing the risk game with him: does he come back and disrupt this beautiful passing game with his iso bullshit?

      I agree, but you and I know Melo ain’t going anywhere soon. If he disrupts the team, it will be be blamed on someone else, as usual.

    37. Doug

      hoolahoop: I agree, but you and I know Melo ain’t going anywhere soon. If he disrupts the team, it will be be blamed on someone else, as usual.

      Who could it possibly be blamed on at this point?

    38. Gamecockerbocker

      Not only did Lin prove (for at least one night) that he could shoot, but I just watched a highlight reel of the Lakers game and all of his made jumpers except one were nothing but net. He’s got a really sweet, high-arching jumper.

    39. rohank

      Remember when we lamented how cohesively the Thunder played together, both defensively and offensively? WE HAVE THAT NOW!

    40. Owen

      Lol, Lebron look out, here comes Jeremy Lin….

      ;-)

      I can’t remember people being this excited about the Knicks in my lifetime…

    41. Dan Panorama

      It’s funny, one of my friends who is a professional sports writer has been really skeptical of the Lin phenomenon this week, and keeps asking me why it is that I keep saying this is the most excited I’ve ever been in a lifetime of Knicks fandom. It’s too many factors to ever get down in less than 5,000 words, but it’s amazing how universal it is. I mean this is not a messageboard of blind Knicks boosters, I’ve been commenting with you guys since the early days. And yet so many people here have been articulating exactly he same thing: this is the best week of their basketball lives and they couldn’t be more excited for the future. It’s really just impossible to quantify how crazy this story is, I can’t find any good parallel in the NBA or any other sport. The Tebow comparisons really are more an insult to Lin then they are a reference point.

    42. Owen

      Seriously Dan. I think this is a once in a lifetime thing. I am fully prepared to be a full on Jeremy Lin fanboy….

      They had a quote in the NYT….

      “But out on the court after the Knicks’ so-called junior varsity won its fourth straight game, a gentleman who has seen it all at the self-proclaimed World’s Most Famous Arena — or believed he had — shook his head in giddy disbelief. “I’ve been coming here since high school in 1955,” said Cal Ramsey, leaning on a cane in the runway. “I’ve never seen anything like this in my life, just out of nowhere.”

    43. hoolahoop

      Z-man: Wow, this is a ridiculous statement, were you awake at all during the 90?s? It’s good times, but we are still not even a playoff seed yet.This is one baby step.

      Grow up.

    44. d-mar

      ess-dog:
      Baron’s bumming.He went from Savior to false idol in about 3 games.

      I disagree, I think he’s probably thrilled with the situation. Now he can take his time coming back, and once he does, not have to do much except play decent PG behind Lin.

    45. JK47

      The great thing about Baron Davis’ return (if it ever happens) is that we should have solid PG play for 48 minutes per game. No need to ever give burn to the two worst players on the roster, Mike Bibby and Toney Douglas.

    46. anubav

      Just an observation… Prior to the Boston game, JLin played a total of 48 minutes for the Knicks. Here are his total stats over that (one game) period:

      30 points (47% FG, 82% FT), 16 assists, 8 rebounds, 3 steals.

      I know it was mostly garbage time, and we would need to correct for that, but even so, that’s a pretty impressive line. Maybe there were some signs…

    47. Frank

      I am not a religious man, but if I was, I would definitely agree that he works in mysterious ways. Think about these factors:

      1) If the Knicks weren’t owned by Dolan, we wouldn’t have made that awful (by value that is) Melo trade last year – perhaps we wouldn’t had made it at all.

      2) Without the Melo trade, we may have signed him as a free agent.

      3) Without the Melo trade, we would not have had Billups to amnesty to get Chandler, who is rapidly becoming my favorite Knick (well, 1A with J-Lin).

      4) Without the Billups amnesty, we wouldn’t have seen how terrible Toney Douglas and Melo are at running an offense

      5) Without Toney Douglas being beyond awful, and without the pickup of mummified Bibby (who promptly got hurt), we would never have even thought to pick up Jeremy Lin.

      6) If Kenyon Martin had decided to sign with us last week, we probably would have dropped Lin to make room for him because he hadn’t really played yet.

      7) We would certainly have pulled hard for Martin (and maybe signed him) if not for the fact that Toney Douglas and Landry started out so terribly, making it obvious we needed backcourt, not frontcourt help.

      Just crazy how many things had to fall just right in order for the revelation that is Linsanity.

    48. Dan Panorama

      That’s pretty cool actually. I remember the first time they put him in he looked really nervous, didn’t seem to know what he was doing. That’s one of the reasons I was so shocked to see him turn out to be this ice cold closer in this stretch. I kept saying “Well, once they apply pressure he’ll be too inexperienced to know what to do,” then “Well once he’s starting…” then “Well once they double team,” then “Once it’s Kobe guarding him…” and yet he just doesn’t even seem even slightly rattled.

      anubav: 30 points (47% FG, 82% FT), 16 assists, 8 rebounds, 3 steals.

    49. Owen

      He was solid for GS last year, at least by wins produced, .157 so well above average, in 285 garbage time minutes….

      The signs were there, but he is playing a ton better than that right now…

    50. Jake S.

      Open question: Are the Knicks still interested in JR Smith? Personally, I think they coul use another shooter, but with Novak coming into his own and Baron making strides, that rotation (improbably, miraculously) is getting awfully crowded. If they do sign Smith, look at this top 11:

      Lin
      Smith
      Melo
      Stat
      Chandler

      Davis
      Shumpert
      Fields
      Novak/Jorts
      Jeffries

      Should they leave well enough alone? JR is a knucklehead supreme.

    51. ess-dog

      d-mar: I disagree, I think he’s probably thrilled with the situation. Now he can take his time coming back, and once he does, not have to do much except play decent PG behind Lin.

      I was really just making a joke. I have no idea what Baron thinks about anything, nor do I care, but sure he’s probably going to play point guard better than ____ or Bibbymortis.

      Speaking of Jeffrightened, he still has a measly eFG of .375. He plays pretty damn good D though. I wish he could just teach Stat how to play defense, lol.

    52. Dan Panorama

      I had the same thought about JR — especially assuming Davis comes back he might be redundant. Shumpert is way too valuable on defense to keep from getting serious minutes and Fields is cementing himself back into the rotation. So I think he’d be a great addition, but he may not want to come if he thinks he’s going to be a 15-20 min guy and potentially even lower no rotation.

    53. JK47

      I think JR is worth the risk for the rest of this season. That $2.5M is just sitting there unused, and our two-guards are not any kind of threat from beyond the arc.

    54. Doug

      daJudge:
      Interesting article just appeared in the NY Times on-line re: Linn’s faith.

      “I have struggled to convey to my friends the sense of connection. But it boils down to a welter of emotions from finally having someone I can relate to enter the public consciousness.”

      This is literally me.

    55. KnicksFanInVA

      Dan Panorama:
      It’s really just impossible to quantify how crazy this story is, I can’t find any good parallel in the NBA or any other sport. The Tebow comparisons really are more an insult to Lin then they are a reference point.

      Maybe a more apt comparison would be to Kurt Warner. He went from Arena League/NFL Europe and bagging groceries to being the perfect fit for the Rams and winning the Super Bowl. Took him Trent Green’s injury in the Preseason to get playing time, but I think it’s pretty similar to Lin’s situation.

    56. massive

      Jeremy Lin has seriously changed this fanbase’s outlook on things. Usually, we as Knicks’ fans have this “curb your enthusiasm” overtone about our team. Now, Jeremy Lin has everybody extremely optimistic and not worried about the worst possible outcomes, like we usually constantly remind each other of. If Lin can get back to his Phoenix level play, and if Melo buys into the system here, we can make some serious noise this year.

      BTW, does Mike Woodson assume all credit for the Knicks’ defensive strides this year? We no longer get lit up by guys like Tyler Hansbrough and Jarret Jack, and teams don’t break a century as often anymore. We’re ranked 9th in DRTG this year, and we play at the 3rd fastest pace in the league. When this offense is playing at full strength, we’ll be a nightmare.

    57. Jake S.

      Another open question: Does Jorts take Jeffries minutes when he comes back? How much more does JJ give them defensively? Because Harrellson’s no slouch and he at least looks semi-competent offensively.

    58. Dan Panorama

      Yeah Harrelson at least provides a decent heavy body and six fouls for some of the burlier centers when Chandler gets into foul trouble, plus his 3 shooting usually catches teams off guard.

    59. Jake S.

      Dan Panorama:
      Yeah Harrelson at least provides a decent heavy body and six fouls for some of the burlier centers when Chandler gets into foul trouble, plus his 3 shooting usually catches teams off guard.

      Right. Jeffries has been a trooper, but I have to think Josh is a better fit for this system–especially because he’s not vulnerable on the defensive end.

    60. Dan Panorama

      I still think Jeffries will be useful, just that he’s usually more dangerous harassing perimeter players with his length and lateral speed than guarding, say, Pau Gasol (though damn, he was great yesterday). I mean we put him on Rajon Rondo sometimes.

    61. daJudge

      Doug, that must be very comforting. I am glad for you and others who feel this way. Very, very cool. Massive at #70—To me the difference is Chandler, by a lot, Shump & Jared and maybe Woodson, in that order.

    62. max fisher-cohen

      Jake S.:
      Another open question: Does Jorts take Jeffries minutes when he comes back? How much more does JJ give them defensively? Because Harrellson’s no slouch and he at least looks semi-competent offensively.

      Because he can shoot, Jorts allows Jeffries to play small forward.

      I imagine the minute allocation with a fully healthy squad and assuming we continue to play well and don’t have to gamble with big minutes for starters just to ensure we make the playoffs, will look something like this:

      PG: Lin (35 mins) -> Davis (13 mins)
      SG: Fields (27 mins) -> Shumpert (16 mins) -> Davis (5 mins)
      SF: Melo (35 mins) -> Shumpert (8 mins) -> Jeffries (5 mins)
      PF: STAT (18 mins) -> Harrellson (20 mins) -> Jeffries (10 mins)
      C: Chandler (27 mins) -> STAT (15 mins) -> Jeffries (6 mins)

      That’s a nine man rotation. Depending on matchups, you could see some of Jeffries’ minutes go to Novak. ONe key here is having Harrellson play power forward as often as possible when STAT is playing center, giving the Knicks maximum spacing. This will be particularly effective against other teams’ second units since they won’t have the offensive firepower to do too much damage against the inferior defense of that lineup.

      Anthony, by contrast, will always be on the floor against the opponents’ starters, giving us a backup plan via isolation if the initial screen/roll doesn’t yield a good shot.

      MDA likes two point guard alignments I think particularly because if the defense traps Lin on the PnR, he can rotate the ball quickly to Davis, who can make a good quick pass into the roll man.

    63. Jake S.

      max fisher-cohen: Because he can shoot, Jorts allows Jeffries to play small forward.

      I imagine the minute allocation with a fully healthy squad and assuming we continue to play well and don’t have to gamble with big minutes for starters just to ensure we make the playoffs, will look something like this:

      PG: Lin (35 mins) -> Davis (13 mins)
      SG: Fields (27 mins) -> Shumpert (16 mins) -> Davis (5 mins)
      SF: Melo (35 mins) -> Shumpert (8 mins) -> Jeffries (5 mins)
      PF: STAT (18 mins) -> Harrellson (20 mins) -> Jeffries (10 mins)
      C: Chandler (27 mins) -> STAT (15 mins) -> Jeffries (6 mins)

      That’s a nine man rotation. Depending on matchups, you could see some of Jeffries’ minutes go to Novak. ONe key here is having Harrellson play power forward as often as possible when STAT is playing center, giving the Knicks maximum spacing. This will be particularly effective against other teams’ second units since they won’t have the offensive firepower to do too much damage against theinferior defense of that lineup.

      Anthony, by contrast, will always be on the floor against the opponents’ starters, giving us a backup plan via isolation if the initial screen/roll doesn’t yield a good shot.

      MDA likes two point guard alignments I think particularly because if the defense traps Lin on the PnR, he can rotate the ball quickly to Davis, who can make a good quick pass into the roll man.

      This basically looks right, but what’s Novak, chopped liver? Have to think his shooting–and the spacing it provides–gets him 12 or so minutes a night.

    64. Frank O.

      Dear friends:
      We live in troubled times. Average Americans today feel disconnected, confused and under appreciated. They feel the system as it exists today no longer looks out for their interests and that no matter how hard they work they’re losing ground. It is harder today than it has been in several generations for an American to work from the bottom to the top. The rich get richer; the successful become more successful. Worse, they’re filled with hubris winning a fixed game. Immigrants and non-whites listen to certain sectors of society cast them as “others.”
      Then from no where a kid from immigrant parents busts his butt, attends a great academic school, and pursues a career in which he is an oddity. Asian ancestry and a Havard pedigree mean ‘undrafted by the NBA.’ It means unguaranteed contracts, the end of the bench and a forever question: am I being asked to quit the kid’s game, as they said in Moneyball? But then two superstars struggle, a passel of mediocre guards collapse and your moment comes.
      Jeremy Lin is a phenomena not just because he exploited that moment to the very best of his ability. Aside from his commitment and hard work, he is what he has become because he embodies our dreams for ourselves, our dreams for our children, and our dreams for our country.
      He is not “other.” He is us. He embodies hope. He embodies hard work. He embodies faith.
      And now, when I look at a new reporter, at the person besides me on the metro, at my sons, and at a kid on the soccer team I coach, I have to wonder: what is the specialness in you? I hope it makes me a better husband, father, colleague, mentor and friend.
      Sorry to be mushy. I’m supposed to be a jaded old reporter. But as excited as I am for the Knicks, I am so happy for this kid. He is succeeding where only giants dare to try.

    65. bobneptune

      Z-man: PAWS

      wow…. just wow!

      ask yourself the same question (how important a point guard is) a week and a half ago.

      also, the next time you figure you are going to find a point guard sporting a 28.7 per and a .281 ws/48 on the scrap pile please let me know. btw…. can i ship you $2 to buy a powerball ticket for me tonight?

      so , yes…. with perfect 20/20 hindsight and playing results, it was a wonderful move putting all the eggs in the chandler basket knowing with metaphysical certitude a hof point guard was going to materialize out of thin air.

      were you just as confident in the out come sitting @ 8 and 15 with toney douglas, the rookie shumpert, the corpse of bibby and a wish that a guy that hasn’t played since april manning the point?

      probably not, ehhh…..

    66. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      bobneptune: wow…. just wow!

      ask yourself the same question (how important a point guard is) a week and a half ago.

      also, the next time you figure you are going to find a point guard sporting a 28.7 per and a .281 ws/48 on the scrap pile please let me know. btw…. can i ship you $2 to buy a powerball ticket for me tonight?

      so , yes…. with perfect 20/20 hindsight and playing results, it was a wonderful move putting all the eggs in the chandler basket knowing with metaphysical certitude a hof point guard was going to materialize out of thin air.

      were you just as confident in the out come sitting @ 8 and 15 with toney douglas, the rookie shumpert, the corpse of bibby and a wish that a guy that hasn’t played since april manning the point?

      probably not, ehhh…..

      To what are you referring to? Z-man said nothing of PAWS in this thread; I checked. This is a friendly tip: improve the coherence of your ideas before you click “Submit Comment.” I really have no idea what you’re trying to say, here.

    67. Z

      Frank O.:

      Jeremy Lin is a phenomena not just because he exploited that moment to the very best of his ability. Aside from his commitment and hard work, he is what he has become because he embodies our dreams for ourselves, our dreams for our children, and our dreams for our country.
      He is not “other.” He is us. He embodies hope. He embodies hard work. He embodies faith.
      And now, when I look at a new reporter, at the person besides me on the metro, at my sons, and at a kid on the soccer team I coach, I have to wonder: what is the specialness in you? I hope it makes me a better husband, father, colleague, mentor and friend.
      Sorry to be mushy. I’m supposed to be a jaded old reporter. But as excited as I am for the Knicks, I am so happy for this kid. He is succeeding where only giants dare to try.

      Nice, Frank. Truly.

      You and I have been gutting through it with this franchise, here at this site, with the other long-time readers and contributors– literally years and years with NOTHING to really cheer about. Yet we tuned in, half out of hope, half out of anger, investing in a team who’s karma seemed to have caught up to it.

      And it’s all been worth it.

      It has been an unbelievable week, and I agree it is having a transcendental effect. Even if it is just a mirage– who cares. “We’ll always have Paris.”

    68. nicos

      People should remember Harrellson is coming off a wrist injury so there’s no guarantee that he’ll be able to shoot the three effectively when he gets back. He was rarely used in the screen and roll so how he’ll mesh with Lin if he can’t hit threes remains to be seen.
      Also, on ball movement- this hasn’t exactly been the ’70 Knicks the last three games. Lin has dominated the ball every bit as much as Melo did. The difference is Lin is constantly moving, forcing the other Knicks to move as well. The ball is moving in and out and side to side but it’s all via Lin, not via the pass. Believe me, I’m not knocking it- Lin has been phenomenal- all NBA level without a doubt- so I’d ride it as far as they can.

    69. Spree8nyk8

      rohank:
      Jeremy Lin: 2012-2013 All-NBA 3rd team.

      Mark my words

      Jeremy Lin, eastern conference starting pg next season….mark mine. If they put his name on the ballot, he’s a lock.

    70. villainx

      Not familiar with D’Antoni rotations when he had legit 8-9 options. Does he spread the minutes or does he lean on heavy minutes for the chosen 7, and the 8/9 guys seems mostly garbage minutes?

    71. Tony Pena

      Ok I’ve seen it in several articles now, Melo and TC were the ones urging MDA to give Lin some minutes. So there.

    72. JK47

      After last night’s game the Knicks now rank 16th in the league in eFG% allowed, which is way up from where it was earlier in the season. Defensively the Knicks are 16th in eFG% allowed, 2nd in turnover percentage (thanks Shump) and 6th in defensive rebounding (thanks Tyson). NYK has sunk to 24th in FT/FGA, but the defensive performance of the team seems highly sustainable.

    73. Frank

      RE: the rotation when everyone is back –

      Hopefully the offense is good enough going forward that we can rest Tyson some — he is now playing almost 34 minutes/game, which is the most he’s played since his New Orleans (and multiple leg/foot injury) days. We’re scratching and clawing for a playoff spot now so there might be no help for it, but I’d like to see his minutes cut to 30 min/game. Between how well Jefferies is playing and how stout Harrellson looked, I hope we can give him some rest. I can see Harrellson out there next to STAT so Jorts can guard the centers and let Amare concentrate on offense.

      Re: the backcourt – I would love to see Baron and J-Lin on the court at the same time a la Felton/Lawson and Lawson/Miller in Denver. I’m not sure how that would turn out necessarily but it certainly would be an interesting look.

      Re: the SF position – I would love to see Novak get spot minutes there and also at the stretch 4. Novak standing behind the 3 point line changes everything on offense. And he did a pretty solid job on defense last night!!

      Re: the Warner – JLin comparison – spot on except J-Lin has the ethnic angle as well. There has literally NEVER been a remotely successful Asian guard in the modern NBA (I’m not old enough to remember Misaka and whoever else back in the 50s), much less one that has dominated like he has for the last 4 games.

    74. bobneptune

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: To what are you referring to? Z-man said nothing of PAWS in this thread; I checked. This is a friendly tip: improve the coherence of your ideas before you click “Submit Comment.” I really have no idea what you’re trying to say, here.

      yes, i mucked it up.

      i was referring to post #33:

      Z-man
      February 11, 2012 at 11:53 am

      PS how smart is the decision to ditch Billups and throw the works at Chandler looking now? The decision to go big rather than small suggested that it is harder, and more important, to find a good big than a good PG.

      >>>>>BN

      i was commenting that i though it pretty funny it is now a genius decision to rape the point guard position in favor of a big, because he “knew” it was easy for a pg with a 28.7 per and a .281 ws/48 to fall out of the sky.

      i’m pretty sure he wasn’t happy at 8 and 15 with the play of td, corpse of bibby. shump-shump and the prayer of davis.

      but playing results is always 20/20.

      sorry i wasn’t clear.

    75. Juany8

      Z-man was pretty spot on, judging the team’s prospects with Toney Douglas and Mike Bibby running the point was pretty short sided, considering they are quite possible the 2 worst players in the NBA (Toney is certainly the worst that got substaintial burn). Even having someone like Goran Dragic would have done wonders for this team (and his best performance was far better than anything Lin’s done so far), although the Lin explosion happened at the perfect moment considering our injuries and record. Now we can give out bench players some burn, and wait for Amar’e, Melo, and Baron to come back without having to rush to make the playoffs.

      Also, Melo’s only season with a solid team, a good point guard, and a healthy coach and team came in 2008, when he went to the conference Finals. Kobe’s teams sucked playing with Smush Parker too, and he was blamed for being a selfish ball hog who could never win without Shaq dominating, but he ended up doing all right for himself.

    76. Juany8

      Oh and I forgot, every single GM in the history of basketball, every single one, would take a good big man over a good guard. Even if Lin had never come and Baron continued to be injured, picking up someone like Ray Felton is actually quite easy, as we showed just two years ago. Chauncey for Chandler was a pretty obvious move (although Amar’e for Chandler, while keeping Billups, probably would have made this team a little better than any other scenario haha)

    77. Z-man

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: To what are you referring to? Z-man said nothing of PAWS in this thread; I checked. This is a friendly tip: improve the coherence of your ideas before you click “Submit Comment.” I really have no idea what you’re trying to say, here.

      Thanks for having my back, THCJ. I know that you pay enough attention to attest that I have consistently said that we can’t assess this team, or the Melo trade, until we have at least a competent PG running the team. Since Lin has not played with a healthy Melo or Amare at the same time yet, still think we aren’t there yet.

      There are 2 parts to the Melo trade pro/con argument: the “Melo is not a star worth max $” debate and the “3 stars + filler vs. build a deep, solid team of players that complement each other via the draft and lower profile FA signings” debate. I have consistently disagreed with those (including you) who have concluded that we are screwed for the next 5 years because of the Melo trade. Yes, we seem to have hit the Lotto with Lin, but even apart from that, I think a decent PG was findable at some point, and until we got one, it would not be fair to judge the Melo trade. I have use the term “historically bad” to describe the Knicks PG play, and even if Lin falls back to earth, he is at worst competent enough to enable an accurate assessment of the rest of the team. It’s really B-ball 101, imho.

    78. Z-man

      The other thing that’s bothering me is the over-the-top e3xcitement about this team. In 1990′s, especially in 1994, the city was in an absolute frenzy over the Knicks, and for all the right reasons: we were finals-bound, and kicking ass at home in almost every game. What is going on now is great stuff, but the team is far from the “reality” of those days, and we are still not out of the woods this year. Let’s beat some top teams under neutral conditions before we lose touch with reality. We are just so freakin’ hungry for a break on the level of those the Bulls got by lucking into Derrick Rose, or the Lakers got by lucking into Gasol, or the Heat got by lucking into LeBron James. Between Chandler and Lin, it seems that the Gods are finally smiling on Knicks fans.

    79. Z

      Frank:

      Re: the Warner – JLin comparison – spot on except J-Lin has the ethnic angle as well.There has literally NEVER been a remotely successful Asian guard in the modern NBA, much less one that has dominated like he has for the last 4 games.

      More possible comparisons:

      Sandy Koufax?
      Tiger Woods?
      Eminem?
      The Jamican Bobsled Team?
      Susan Boyle?

      All got a major bump in the media for their fish out of water story as much as their actual performance… Will Lin keep it up and be a superstar a la Woods, Mathers, and Boyle? Or will he just be a cute Disney movie, like the bbobsledders?

      Time will tell… (but I’m 100% sure he’s going to be Tiger Woods, minus all that ugly personal stuff :)

    80. JK47

      The team was just pitifully easy to defend when there was no dribble penetration. There weren’t really a lot of options other than Melo hero-ball. Toney Douglas, Mike Bibby and Iman Shumpert were our point guards. None of those guys can really do anything even remotely point-guardish. Amar’e Stoudemire was rendered useless because all our guards could do was get him the ball 18 feet from the cup.

      If Melo continues to iso the whole game and D’Antoni doesn’t do anything about it, then yes, both of those guys should be banished to basketball Siberia as soon as possible. But I don’t think that’s going to happen. Jeremy Lin has blown up into an overnight superstar– a sports meme. He’s going to be allowed to do his thing, and I will be absolutely shocked if Amar’e and Melo continue to put up TS% of .513 and .506 respectively. This team just got a LOT more difficult to defend. Combine that with our real and clearly sustainable defensive improvements and we should be seeing some good times ahead.

    81. Z-man

      I also think that there are lots of starting caliber PGs on the bench around the league, and that Billups is really not a starting-caliber PG anymore (playing the 2 on a team with CP3 is perfect for him at this point in his career; too bad he got hurt). So “raping” the PG position by ditching Billups in favor of a top-5 center in his prime is hardly something I have to justify in hindsight, bob. Just about everybody here, including always skeptical-cynical THCJ thought that move was a no-brainer.

    82. Z

      Z-man:
      The other thing that’s bothering me is the over-the-top e3xcitement about this team.In 1990?s, especially in 1994, the city was in an absolute frenzy over the Knicks…

      Yeah, obviously a championship within grasp is bigger than the emergence of an unlikely hero for 1 week. BUT, in 1994 we were pretty used to being highly competitive. And there was always the feeling surrounding the team and the league that the only reason the aknicks had a shot at a title was because Jordan wasn’t around.

      1999 is the last time I think most of us remember feeling anything close to this. And Camby was pulling a Lin that spring. And it was a weird lockout year. It was the last time the gods were smiling on us (LJ!!)

      But, again, fans had been used to winning a lot of games and competing For titles that whole decade. This week’s excitement comes after 12 years of absolute misery. I don’t think there is such thing as over-the-top excitement for Knick fans right now. The clouds are lifting. Here comes the sun.

    83. Frank

      Z-man:
      I also think that there are lots of starting caliber PGs on the bench around the league, and that Billups is really not a starting-caliber PG anymore (playing the 2 on a team with CP3 is perfect for him at this point in his career; too bad he got hurt).So “raping” the PG position by ditching Billups in favor of a top-5 center in his prime is hardly something I have to justify in hindsight, bob. Just about everybody here, including always skeptical-cynical THCJ thought that move was a no-brainer.

      Totally agree – we traded an aging not-really-PG and his expiring contract (and a minuscule chance at signing CP3 or D-Will to a less-than-max deal) for a true center in his prime who also happens to be running around with a TS of 74.5 and shutting down Bynum 1-on-1. That was a total no-brainer even if 2011-12 ended up being sort of a downer year until we convinced Nash to come for the MLE.

    84. Z-man

      Believe me, I’m totally on board and eating this all up. It is as exciting as all hell! Just would like to see us win a couple of playoff games before proclaiming this the most excited I’ve been about the Knicks since the Willis Reed days.

    85. bobneptune

      Z-man:
      I also think that there are lots of starting caliber PGs on the bench around the league, and that Billups is really not a starting-caliber PG anymore (playing the 2 on a team with CP3 is perfect for him at this point in his career; too bad he got hurt).So “raping” the PG position by ditching Billups in favor of a top-5 center in his prime is hardly something I have to justify in hindsight, bob. Just about everybody here, including always skeptical-cynical THCJ thought that move was a no-brainer.

      of course it is hindsight even if you agreed with the notion of packing all the teams flexibility into chandler.

      going all in on chandler stuck the knicks with waiver acquisitions and a 2.5 million dollar exception to improve the team this year that had toney douglas as its starting pg. the entire season was banked on td, the corpse of bibby, a rookie who clearly isn’t a pg and the hope a guy who after not playing a game since april with a chronic bad back was going to lead this team into the playoffs.

      the result of that concoction was 8 and 15 playing a relatively easy schedule so far. i call that a complete failure of composing a team.

      the notion that bob cousy fell out of the sky doesn’t mean the strategy was good. that is the definition of playing results.

      the notion that there is somehow a plethora of starting pg’s languishing on benches is moot, because the knicks had nothing left of value to trade for any of them…. if they exist.

    86. Brian Cronin

      Totally agree – we traded an aging not-really-PG and his expiring contract (and a minuscule chance at signing CP3 or D-Will to a less-than-max deal) for a true center in his prime who also happens to be running around with a TS of 74.5 and shutting down Bynum 1-on-1. That was a total no-brainer even if 2011-12 ended up being sort of a downer year until we convinced Nash to come for the MLE.

      Oh yeah, the Chandler move was a no-brainer when Paul became unavailable.

    87. Robert Silverman

      bobneptune: of course it is hindsight even if you agreed with the notion of packing all the teams flexibility into chandler.

      going all in on chandler stuck the knicks with waiver acquisitions and a 2.5 million dollar exception to improve the team this year that had toney douglas as its starting pg. the entire season was banked on td, the corpse of bibby, a rookie who clearly isn’t a pg and the hope a guy who after not playing a game since april with a chronic bad back was going to lead this team into the playoffs.

      the result of that concoction was 8 and 15 playing a relatively easy schedule so far. i call that a complete failure of composing a team.

      the notion that bob cousy fell out of the sky doesn’t mean the strategy was good. that is the definition of playing results.

      the notion that there is somehow a plethora of starting pg’s languishing on benches is moot, because the knicks had nothing left of value to trade for any of them…. if they exist.

      But even before Billups blew out his Achilles, his play had really fallen off a cliff. While I agree that income inequality remains a big problem w/this roster what would you have done in Dec. 2011? (meaning no backsies on the Melo trade).

      Kept Billups and used JJ/Jorts at center?
      If you amnesty Billups and don’t use the $ on Chandler, you’re looking at Sam Dalembert and who exactly? Aside from Billups, Baron Davis was by far the best PG on the market.

    88. Ben R

      We lost most of our flexability when we traded for Melo, we lost the rest when we signed Chandler. The Chandler signing was a better move than the Melo trade so if you want to blame one move for trapping us with mediocre guards and no flexability it was the Melo trade not the Chandler signing.

      I am just thankful for Lin and for the fact that Fields is playing well again, his defense on Kobe was great. TD has been a very good NBA player and will get back to that level when his health or personal issues iron themselves out. I think it is great he is sitting, taking care of things and when he returns he will give us the backcourt shooting we are so badly missing.

    89. Brian Cronin

      I might write about it in the future, but it’s worth mentioning here real quick. The one possible way that the Knicks could still lose Lin is if a team with a lot of cap space decided to basically go all-in on Lin. I mean, obviously no one’s giving him the MAX, but what if a team gave him a four year/$44 million deal? Due to the Gilbert Arenas provision, the way such an offer would work is that the first two years could only be $5 million (or whatever the mid-level is – I think it is roughly $5 million) and then Lin would get a huge raise in the third year so that he would average out to $44 over the four years. The Knicks, therefore, would be able to match the $5 million, but then would be on the hook for the big salary bump in the third year. And when they’re already committed to paying Amar’e and Melo $19 million a year (plus $13.5 to Chandler), such a commitment would put them over the luxury tax cap very quickly. And as we know, being over the luxury tax gets very expensive. I think the Knicks would still match, but that’s the only scenario I can think of where not matching might make some sense (like let’s say they can get Nash at the MLE, would that make more sense than Lin at $11 million for four years?).

    90. Brian Cronin

      Fields is playing well again, his defense on Kobe was great.

      I like Fields, but even I was surprised by how good his D was on Kobe. Kobe is such a good bad shot shooter that he was able to still get hot in the second half, but Fields made him work for everything.

    91. Z-man

      @101, I’ll stand by my assessment, which hasn’t changed. Clearly you think that you are right, the Chandler move should not have been made, and if the Knicks wind up in the Finals, it was dumb luck rather than a good move with far more reward than risk. Did it occur to you that the move locked in possibly the best front line in basketball for the next 4-5 years? We didn’t need Bob Cousy, we needed a decent PG who can run the P&R. It is just as likely that Lin will turn out to be fool’s gold as the real deal, yet the fact that he was buried on 3 benches before even getting a shot makes my point…that you are much better off gambling on finding a PG for the mid-level or less to complete your team than a rock-solid in his prime center.

    92. JK47

      Luckily it doesn’t seem like Guitar Jimmy cares much about paying the luxury tax. If Lin keeps up the good play he will generate revenues in other ways for Dolan. He’s a ridculously valuable commodity.

    93. Brian Cronin

      By the way, the way the luxury tax system works, it really might make sense to try to trade Melo for essentially a reverse Melo trade. And I do not mean that as a shot at Melo at all. Like I’ve said before, I think he will mesh in with Lin very well. He already showed a willingness to do so before he got hurt and he was doing it (heck, the play he left the game on was him turning down an open shot to find a cutter at the basket). So I think Melo would fit in very well. However, with the Knicks’ cap situation, I just don’t know how you can pay Melo and Amar’e $19, 21 and then 23 million a year for the next three seasons.

      You could trade Amar’e instead, of course, but since A. He’d get you much less in a trade than Melo and B. His game meshes with Lin’s even more so than Melo, I think Melo is the better bet to deal to get multiple pieces, including draft picks (which are the best way to improve a capped out team).

      I’d let them all play together for the rest of this season first, of course, but I think it is something they’d really have to consider in the offseason.

    94. bobneptune

      Brian Cronin: Oh yeah, the Chandler move was a no-brainer when Paul became unavailable.

      that no brainer move had the knicks exactly at 8 and 15 until a legit pg fell out of the sky. you cannot play winning basketball without an initiator.

    95. Brian Cronin

      Luckily it doesn’t seem like Guitar Jimmy cares much about paying the luxury tax. If Lin keeps up the good play he will generate revenues in other ways for Dolan. He’s a ridculously valuable commodity.

      Yeah, I think he would match as well. But the luxury tax rules do get quite draconian pretty quickly, so even a dude like Dolan might start flinching.

    96. Brian Cronin

      Ugh, Jason Whitlock, dude, that’s just fucked up.

      “Some lucky lady in NYC is going to feel a couple of inches of pain tonight.”

      A. Way racist

      and

      B. Gross

      Man, so messed up.

    97. bobneptune

      Z-man:
      @101, I’ll stand by my assessment, which hasn’t changed.Clearly you think that you are right, the Chandler move should not have been made, and if the Knicks wind up in the Finals, it was dumb luck rather than a good move with far more reward than risk.Did it occur to you that the move locked in possibly the best front line in basketball for the next 4-5 years?

      you are correct. if the knicks move deep into the playoffs this year it will be dumb luck.

      and it did occur to me they locked up a very good front line for years to come. unfortunately, with that excellent front line and no reasonable expectation of getting a plus point guard they were a crisp 8 and 15 against weak competition. the record shows that to be the case.

    98. hoolahoop

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: To what are you referring to? Z-man said nothing of PAWS in this thread; I checked. This is a friendly tip: improve the coherence of your ideas before you click “Submit Comment.” I really have no idea what you’re trying to say, here.

      maybe he clicked the wrong link to quote.

    99. Robert Silverman

      Brian Cronin:
      I might write about it in the future, but it’s worth mentioning here real quick. The one possible way that the Knicks could still lose Lin is if a team with a lot of cap space decided to basically go all-in on Lin. I mean, obviously no one’s giving him the MAX, but what if a team gave him a four year/$44 million deal? Due to the Gilbert Arenas provision, the way such an offer would work is that the first year could only be $5 million (or whatever the mid-level is – I think it is roughly $5 million) and then Lin would get a huge raise the next year so that he would average out to $44 over the four years. The Knicks, therefore, would be able to match the $5 million, but then would be on the hook for the big salary bumps over the next three years. And when they’re already committed to paying Amar’e and Melo $19 million a year (plus $13.5 to Chandler), such a commitment would put them over the luxury tax cap very quickly. And as we know, being over the luxury tax gets very expensive. I think the Knicks would still match, but that’s the only scenario I can think of where not matching might make some sense (like let’s say they can get Nash at the MLE, would that make more sense than Lin at $11 million for four years?).

      Brian – I’m no cap expert, but I’m pretty sure there’s a limit in the NBA on how much you can increase or decrease a player’s salary each year in a long-term contract. I.e. You can’t offer Lin a contract that goes 5mil/11mil/11mil/11mil.

      I’m pretty sure something like a 15% deviation is the max allowed, precisely to stop the kind of front/back-loaded deal you mention. So the max anyone can offer is 5 years at 6 million per, which the Knicks can then match or not. Again, I may be wrong but I don’t think even an under-the-cap team like Indiana couldn’t throw 11 million/year at Lin.

    100. hoolahoop

      Z-man: Did it occur to you that the move locked in possibly the best front line in basketball for the next 4-5 years?

      Do you watch the games? Melo has a great ability to score, but is not a great player.
      Two games of passing after he got embarrassed by Gallo does not a changed man make.
      Don’t blame it on lack of PG. The JV squad played much better when he was on the bench.

    101. xduckshoex

      Robert Silverman: Brian – I’m no cap expert, but I’m pretty sure there’s a limit in the NBA on how much you can increase or decrease a player’s salary each year in a long-term contract. I.e. You can’t offer Lin a contract that goes 5mil/11mil/11mil/11mil.

      I’m pretty sure omething like a 15% deviation is the max allowed. So the max anyone can offer is 5 years at 6 million per, which the Knicks can then match or not. Even an under-the-cap team like Indiana couldn’t throw 11 million at Lin.

      Your raises can only be a certain amount, but you can decrease salary any amount you want. That’s how the Thunder gave Collison a deal that was front loaded 10+ million and then decreased to something like $2 million a year afterward.

      But ultimately you are right, if the most the Knicks can offer Lin is $5 million to start with they can’t go beyond the standard raise for the next season, and the next season, etc.

    102. Owen

      That is gross from Whitlock. Never mind that if Lin is the kind of Christian I knew in college that’s the last thing happening…..

      I don’t share your confidence that Melo will make it work, but I really really hope so….

      I am expecting a massive come down tonight in Minnesota but that’s alright, I can die happy after the last week….

    103. Brian Cronin

      Brian – I’m no cap expert, but I’m pretty sure there’s a limit in the NBA on how much you can increase or decrease a player’s salary each year in a long-term contract. I.e. You can’t offer Lin a contract that goes 5mil/11mil/11mil/11mil.

      I’m pretty sure omething like a 15% deviation is the max allowed. So the max anyone can offer is 5 years at 6 million per, which the Knicks can then match or not. Even an under-the-cap team like Indiana couldn’t throw 11 million at Lin.

      The Gilbert Arenas Provision allows for larger raises than the standard, provided that the team making the offer sheet is under the cap the yearly average of the offer. So, for instance, a team would have to be under the cap by $11 million to offer 4 years/$44 million. The first two years would just be $5 million so that the Knicks would be given the chance to keep their player then the third year would have a huge bump to make the contract work out to be $44 million. The Gilbert Arenas Provision is not about limiting salaries so much as it is about giving teams a chance to re-sign their hidden gems.

    104. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      By the way: the Heat are an awesome team with 3 max players, filler, and no point guard talent. (Chalmers has had a few big games and innumerable mediocre ones.)

      The difference is that the Heat have 2.5 max-quality players, and we have 1 (Chandler). If the two we actually pay like max players can’t be effective without a good point guard, they shouldn’t be getting max money. LeBron and Wade are phenomenal point-scorers, and they deserve every cent they get. I don’t think Carmelo’s even close to that level. Maybe almost as physically gifted as James, but not close to the efficiency/court vision.

      I mean, Chandler’s putting up better numbers cleaning up Amar’e’s 16-foot misses than he did with one of the greatest point guards of all-time throwing him dunk lobs all the time.

      I still think the Melo trade was a bad idea, and the Amar’e signing was even worse. They were directly responsible for unearthing Nash 2.0, so if one of them can be exchanged for someone like Paul Millsap or Ryan Anderson and some picks (never going to happen, but they’re the kind of player who should be on this team), we might actually make out well, here.

    105. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      By point-scorer, I meant a ball controller who’s equally good at “creating” shots for himself as he is for his teammates.

    106. Robert Silverman

      Brian Cronin: The Gilbert Arenas Provision allows for larger raises than the standard, provided that the team making the offer sheet is under the cap the yearly average of the offer. So, for instance, a team would have to be under the cap by $11 million to offer 4 years/$44 million. The first two years would just be $5 million so that the Knicks would be given the chance to keep their player then the third year would have a huge bump to make the contract work out to be $44 million. The Gilbert Arenas Provision is not about limiting salaries so much as it is about giving teams a chance to re-sign their hidden gems.

      Thanks for the 411. Like I said, I’m no Larry Coon

    107. Brian Cronin

      But ultimately you are right, if the most the Knicks can offer Lin is $5 million to start with they can’t go beyond the standard raise for the next season, and the next season, etc.

      You are correct in how much the Knicks can offer, but they can match offers from other teams that are for larger salaries – the starting salary will just always be $5 million.

    108. Brian Cronin

      Thanks for the 411. Like I said, I’m no Larry Coon

      It’s all good. Heck, I had problems with a piece last week because I relied on a mistake by Coon, so sometimes even Larry Coon isn’t Larry Coon!

    109. daJudge

      THCJ–If you will, assume this just for argument’s sake: what happens if the team makes a deep playoff run. I know that you are a big time fan and that you will be happy. I am not questioning that part. My question is what happens to your belief in the predictive metrics that make this scenario so highly unlikely. How would you resolve the conflict between the abstract prediction and concrete result?

    110. DRed

      hoolahoop: Do you watch the games? Melo has a great ability to score, but is not a great player.
      Two games of passing after he got embarrassed by Gallo does not a changed man make.
      Don’t blame it on lack of PG. The JV squad played much better when he was on the bench.

      “Do you watch the games” is a rather poor riposte this year. Fuck you again, Jimmy Dolan.

    111. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      If they make a deep playoff run, the competency of our players will be verified by the stats. My argument is that Amar’e’s awful WP48, WS48, TS%, eFG%, TRB%, etc. is indicative of his piss-poor play. If the team makes a deep run, it will likely be because he (in this example, that is) is playing well (which will be reflected in the stats).

      Then I might eat some crow. But the odds are that if we do make a deep playoff run, it will be 1) Chandler continuing to be awesome; 2) Fields continuing to revert to his efficient ways; 3) Lin continuing to play like a top 5 player; and 4) refusing to play the shitty players who null the potency of our best.

      No deep playoff team has players with shitty statistics. It simply does not happen. Sometimes players get “hot,” like J.J. Barea, but most of the time, it’s consistently good play from consistently good players. Neither Carmelo nor Amar’e will likely be responsible for the wins, but if their numbers reflect outstanding play, I will be the first one to admit it.

    112. nicos

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      By the way: the Heat are an awesome team with 3 max players, filler, and no point guard talent. (Chalmers has had a few big games and innumerable mediocre ones.)

      The difference is that the Heat have 2.5 max-quality players, and we have 1 (Chandler). If the two we actually pay like max players can’t be effective without a good point guard, they shouldn’t be getting max money. LeBron and Wade are phenomenal point-scorers, and they deserve every cent they get. I don’t think Carmelo’s even close to that level. Maybe almost as physically gifted as James, but not close to the efficiency/court vision.

      so if one of them can be exchanged for someone like Paul Millsap or Ryan Anderson and some picks (never going to happen, but they’re the kind of player who should be on this team), we might actually make out well, here.

      The thing is that if Lin “is” a great point guard and you can get Amar’e back to 2009/10 numbers then moving him for spare parts just because he’s no good without a point guard makes no sense. With solid point guard play, he’s as efficient a volume scorer as there is in the league- even last year he was dominant in the small window when Felton was playing great. I’d agree that if Lin is at least close to what he’s been so far then moving Melo if you can get real value, not spare parts, might make sense.

    113. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      DRed: “Do you watch the games” is a rather poor riposte this year.Fuck you again, Jimmy Dolan.

      hahahahahahaha

      Yet another reason to “work around the system.” Die, old media! Die!

    114. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      nicos: The thing is that if Lin “is” a great point guard and you can get Amar’e back to 2009/10 numbers then moving him for spare parts just because he’s no good without a point guard makes no sense.With solid point guard play, he’s as efficient a volume scorer as there is in the league- even last year he was dominant in the small window when Felton was playing great.I’d agree that if Lin is at least close to what he’s been so far then moving Melo if you can get real value, not spare parts, might make sense.

      He’s on the wrong end of 25. That’s my problem. Even if the PG play helps, he’s not 23 and playing a Shawn Kemp body double anymore. That said, if he can bring his TS% up to 60 or so, this team could make the ECF.

    115. daJudge

      THCJ-Thank you for your response. I’m not saying you should or would eat crow, but a reasonable explanation could be that these folks could not thrive w/o a competent 1. My point is that the stats are interactive, reflective and can not be viewed in isolation. Their predictability depends on looking at an entire set of factors. IMO, a competent 1 makes all the difference with really any player in this league, particularly with D’Antoni ball. Further, in the absence of a competent 1, stats are tainted and by definition incomplete.

    116. Juany8

      As much as I absolutely love Chandler and admit he’s at least as valuable overall as Carmelo, if not more, I continue to find it incredible that he’s described as a statistical star because of his offensive play. Chandler is a competent offensive center who can get you extra opportunities through his offensive rebounds and play excellent in the pick and roll, but the only thing that means is that he’s not an offensive liability. He has played with several brilliant point guards and intelligent coaches/front offices, who obviously recognize his efficiency. Yet not one of them has ever called for Chandler to be the centerpoint of their offense, even though the league’s centers are weaker than ever. Rick Carlisle was a brilliant coach and Jason Kidd a really smart point guard, why didn’t they try to finish possessions through Chandler as often as possible? Better yet, why did no one on that team, a team as statistically oriented as any, refer to Chandler as an offensive monster? Why was the main noticeable team improvement on defense, considering they had Brendan Haywood taking Chandler’s minutes the year before? Both WP and WS said Chandler was substantially better than Dirk during the regular season, why did no one on the Maverick’s even contemplate that Chandler might be better?

      High efficiency is incredible from a high usage player who’s an offensive focal point, for low usage players like Chandler and Fields, high efficiency is required for them to be credible starters. They’re taking open shots, you’d think they would be able to make them. The problem is those open shots don’t come by themselves. Opponents also notice how efficient Chandler and Fields have been and still reliably leave them open, mostly because while it’s hard to force them to take a low percentage shot, it’s really easy to stop them from taking a shot at all, which means wasting shot clock and bad shots for the players whose responsibility it is to take them

    117. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      A competent 1 is not really that important. LeBron has made two finals without one. Tim Duncan won 4 finals and only had a good point guard in the last one (Tony Parker wasn’t that good before then). Kobe and Shaq never had a good point guard (Gary Payton was way over the hill when they made the finals). I can’t even name the point guards on the Jordan championship teams. Steve Kerr? I have no idea. The triangle may be an exception (PG play is evidently needless, as the 1 plays the two-man game on the weakside), but if that’s the case, why aren’t the Knicks hiring someone who can teach it? If PG is their lack, why isn’t D’antoni changing the structure of his offense to suit his team’s abilities?

      Good basketball teams can overcome a “lack” at a given position, but usually, it’s more important that you have exceptional play at the PF/C positions than at PG/SG. LeBron played with a bunch of scrubs for years and consistently found success in the playoffs because he is a ridiculously awesome player. He obviously wasn’t good enough to overcome the deeper teams, but he showed that you can have a deep playoff contender with one awesome player and a few decent players.

      Kobe Bryant. Great player? For a few years, sure. But what happened when he lost his big man? First-round exits until he got a new one (and then another one). Point guard play didn’t matter much at all.

    118. Veal Scalabrine

      Hi everyone; it feels so awkward to post anything that doesn’t directly comment upon the astonishing ascendance of Jeremy Lin, but I wanted to thank everyone who completed my survey after I posted the link on the Knicks/Wizards game thread this past Wednesday. If anyone here who didn’t already do so has 2 or so minutes to spare (amidst all the Linsanity!) to take the survey, I’d again be very grateful (link below). The survey data I’ve gathered thus far has already revealed some intriguing trends that will serve my project on advanced sports analytics quite well. I honestly could not be doing this without your help. Enjoy the game–Lin vs. Rubio, coming on the heels of last night’s transcendent bliss, is the next chapter in a Hollywood script that is writing itself before our very eyes.

      http://edu.surveygizmo.com/s3/804008/Who-Is-the-Best-NBA-Center-of-the-Last-25-Years

    119. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I completely disagree with your post, juany8.

      If players like Chandler are “expected” to be highly efficient, why has no center ever done what he’s doing?

      You imply that somehow Carmelo or Amar’e is responsible for Chandler’s “ability” to be that efficient. There are plenty of high-usage chuckers across the league, but none of their teammates is even CLOSE with regard to efficiency as Chandler. Can you explain that one to me?

      My argument is that Chandler, who is a massive 7’1″ and very athletic for his height, DOES have the ability to create his own shot in a way that few players do. He’s tough in the paint, and he gets high-efficiency shots through sheer athleticism and size. Why should we discredit his ability? Because he’s not as flashy or quick or nifty as Carmelo?

      The argument that I seem to hear is that players like Carmelo and Amar’e need (and have not yet had) the right system to be effective (i.e. needing an outstanding point guard), yet players like Chandler and Fields do not (and that’s been clear, according to the stat sheet). It would seem to be that Chandler would be “better” at “creating” his own shot, in that case, since he’s had no point guard this year to “create” for him. Do you follow my logic? I’m not sure if I’m being clear.

      Again, I question why Fields (last year, at least) and Chandler are able to “hit the open shots” that their high usage “stars” create for them, yet so many players on other teams have similar circumstances (the teammates of Monta Ellis, Jennings, Iguodala, Kevan Martin, et al.) but are unable to replicate those numbers.

    120. daJudge

      THCJ–I need some time on this, but I will respond. Briefly though, good and competent are different–I’m sure you would agree. And just so I’m clear, you think that a competent point guard is not that important and your main case in point is LeBron. Outlier.

    121. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      There aren’t many teams at all that win without average play at at least every position.

    122. Juany8

      THCJ, Did you actually read my post? The all time leader in offensive rating is Steve Kerr if I’m not mistaken (he’s up there). You yourself just pointed out he was a mediocre point guard. Furthermore, you completely missed my point that, if Chandler was really a super star offensively, some team at some point would have tried to make him the focal point of the offense. Not an occasional pick and roll, Chandler should have had more shots than David West, Dirk Nowitzki, and Amar’e Stoudemire, especially when paired with brilliant coaches and point guards like Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, and Rick Carlisle. The problem is that it is really easy to simply prevent Chandler from taking a good shot in the half court, you need the ball in your hands to score and Chandler can’t do much with the ball in his hands other than finish, even a jump shot would make him near dominant. That’s very different from someone like Shaq, who you could post up and let him work a defender for a good look.

      If for some reason you’re going to totally misrepresent my point again it’s pretty simple. It’s a lot easier to get someone like Amar’e a good look than it is to get Chandler a good look, regardless of their ability to make those shots. That doesn’t automatically make one player better than the other (I think Chandler is better than Amar’e overall), but you can’t ignore that even Chris Paul preferred to pass to David West over Chandler. I’m going to go ahead and trust his judgement over yours.

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