njasdjdh: It’s not as simple as that.OKC, SAS and LAC (if CP3 is healthy) are all better than any WC-playoff team from that ’08-’09 run with the exception of the ’08-’09 LAL and LAL vs those 3 teams is a good debate.

San Antonio was 2 years removed from winning a championship that year and they’ve been 2-2 in the last 2 playoffs when they started winning big in the regular season. Dallas had the whole “choker” label thing, but they were a very good team that was still in a midst of a decade long run of 50+ wins. Many of the same players that would make up their championship run were on that team, including Kidd, Dirk, Terry, and Barea. Houston had Yao Ming and Ron Artest, both still near the top of their games, and a very nice surrounding core.

That Lakers core made 3 straight Finals and won 2 championships. Up until this point, none of the top 3 WCF teams are even remotely close to those Lakers. Miami might be, but they’re in the East. The Nuggets came the closest to beating those Lakers in 2009, a few mistakes on inbounds passes swung that series in the Lakers favor early on. Furthermore that Nuggets team was the second seed that year, and was winning at a high rate the next year before George Karl went out with cancer and their entire front line was injured. Hell the year the Nuggets made the WCF Melo and Kenyon Martin only played 66 games.

Juany8: If the Nuggets come within a few stolen inbounds passes of making the Finals this year, I’ll start coming on this site and annihilating ruru for his Melo love while singing Harden’s praises every single day. I’ll start backing up any advanced stat you feel like and I’ll actually make good arguments to back them up instead of relying on a childishlevel of debate to make my points. I’ll do anything, because I know for a fact that this Nuggets team isn’t even close to as good as the Melo-Chauncey Nuggets, nor even this Knicks team that has the second best chance in the East of making the Finals. The Nuggets MIGHT win a 1st round series against a non contender, but anyone writing off the Grizzlies should keep in mind that the year they made the playoff run that put them on the map they were an eighth seed missing Rudy Gay.

It’s not as simple as that. OKC, SAS and LAC (if CP3 is healthy) are all better than any WC-playoff team from that ’08-’09 run with the exception of the ’08-’09 LAL and LAL vs those 3 teams is a good debate.

Frank:
And apparently Woodson told his daughter (who went to GaTech like Shump) that “he’ll be right here with me”.

Nothing to see here everyone re: these trade rumors — move on.

whoops. Jared Zwerling just tweeted that Woody told Shump he couldn’t assure him he wouldn’t be moved. Ouch.

Frank: although CP3 is going to run him into about 100 picks.

Owen:
Which Melo team was better than this edition of the Nuggets?

The Nuggets are really good. And really young. Better than the Knicks I think.

Z-man – Win Score is really the game metric I guess. Wins Produced is its translation, adjusted for pace, defense, league average, etc…..

That’s as much as I know anyway….

I

If the Nuggets come within a few stolen inbounds passes of making the Finals this year, I’ll start coming on this site and annihilating ruru for his Melo love while singing Harden’s praises every single day. I’ll start backing up any advanced stat you feel like and I’ll actually make good arguments to back them up instead of relying on a childish level of debate to make my points. I’ll do anything, because I know for a fact that this Nuggets team isn’t even close to as good as the Melo-Chauncey Nuggets, nor even this Knicks team that has the second best chance in the East of making the Finals. The Nuggets MIGHT win a 1st round series against a non contender, but anyone writing off the Grizzlies should keep in mind that the year they made the playoff run that put them on the map they were an eighth seed missing Rudy Gay.

Nothing to see here everyone re: these trade rumors — move on.

Owen: Which Melo team was better than this edition of the Nuggets?

The Nuggets are really good. And really young. Better than the Knicks I think.

I think the argument against the post-Melo Nuggets has always been that without “superstars”, a team that relies so much on running is going to have a tough time in the playoffs. OKC is a running team but they also had 3 absolutely special talents during their playoff run last year that could take a game over even in the halfcourt.

This current Nugget team looks nice, but it very much remains to be seen whether it’s any better than the old Melo-Nugget teams or better than this Knick team.

Re: the whole Shump thing – per twitter, Woodson says Shump is going to start on CP3 today. It’s about time, although CP3 is going to run him into about 100 picks.

The Nuggets are really good. And really young. Better than the Knicks I think.

Z-man – Win Score is really the game metric I guess. Wins Produced is its translation, adjusted for pace, defense, league average, etc…..

That’s as much as I know anyway….

I

ruruland: This is so fucking stupid I have no idea why you continue to post here.

Owen:
I think this is what you are looking for….

http://wagesofwins.com/2012/03/06/introducing-points-over-par/

Thanks, Owen, much appreciated, but I was looking more for a way to look at WP the same way we look at a box score on a daily basis. B-R posts somethig called a Game Score which I don’t understand at all but at least I can look at it and make my own judgments. Why doesn’t WoW or thenbageek.com publish game-by-game WP stats? They don’t seem that hard to calculate.

As to PoP, since we don’t really debate that here, not sure if they are relevant to the current conversation. I guess that because they are derived from WP, there’s a tangential argument, but even in the example they gave, they only give the stats for one team.

BigBlueAL: Dudley is not a marginal player.His TS% on the season is just shy of 60% and for his career its 58%.I love Shump like everyone else but the facts are he continues to be an awful offensive player with the only thing saving him right now is he has made his 3pters this season but who knows how real that is since even Brewer was drilling 3pters early in the season.Shump even with shooting 43% from 3pt range so far has a TS% of only 44%!!

I dunno I just think alot of people here who are fans of Shump have an irrational belief in his offense improving.The facts are he may not look as bad as Brewer offensively but he is just as bad as him.Felton and Brewer get killed for their poor shooting but Shump gets a pass for his just because he is still young and there is a hope he will improve.

I doubt this trade happens and I am not wishing it happens but if it does I certainly wont complain, heck I would actually be a bit excited because it would certainly improve the offense pretty significantly imo.

people….shump is less than a month back from an ACL surgery. he is rusty. he is also a “dog” (in a good way), as he is the exact type of player whose defense could swing a playoff series, especially against a team featuring a deadly, but aging, d wade. Dudley is a decent player, but absolutely nothing great. to give up on shump would be to give up on our one piece that has the greatest chance to improve between now and the end of the season. Im pretty sure Woody knows all of this, so Im not really that concerned about it happening. Its just amazing how so many Knicks fans constantly complain about us giving up on young talent and yet want to do it again and again