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Tuesday, September 16, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Dec 24 2011)

  • [New York Daily News] Doc Rivers: Pierce unlikely to start vs. Knicks (Sat, 24 Dec 2011 03:48:06 GMT)
    Paul Pierce has made a career out of terrorizing the Knicks but on Christmas Day he may never get off the bench. The Celtics’ All-Star forward is listed as doubtful for the NBA opener with a nagging heel injury.

  • [New York Daily News] With Woodson, Knicks place emphasis on ‘D’ (Sat, 24 Dec 2011 03:41:41 GMT)
    For nearly a decade, defense was a word chanted at Madison Square Garden but rarely practiced by the home team. Carmelo Anthony has revealed that a greater emphasis is now being placed on defense and claims that the Knicks’ new assistant coach Mike Woodson is spending up to “45 minutes on defensive film sessions.

  • [New York Times] Expectations Take Off Before Knicks Get Acquainted (Sat, 24 Dec 2011 06:09:07 GMT)
    Mike D’Antoni’s challenge with the Knicks is to forge a title contender from a brand-new team that has had little time to develop much-needed chemistry, or perhaps lose his job.

  • [New York Times] Celtics, With New Bench, Seek Another Title (Sat, 24 Dec 2011 06:20:13 GMT)
    Boston, which opens the season Sunday against the Knicks, has a new squad of players to support Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett and Rajon Rondo.

  • [New York Times] As Nets Try to Fill Hole, Avery Johnson Puts On Happy Face (Sat, 24 Dec 2011 06:20:13 GMT)
    Avery Johnson, the ever-optimistic coach, will look to the newly acquired big man Mehmet Okur to replace the injured Brook Lopez.

  • [New York Times] The ‘Willis Reed Tunnel’ Is Gone (Sat, 24 Dec 2011 06:20:13 GMT)
    In a renovation of Madison Square Garden, seats replaced the passageway used by the Knicks center in Game 7 of the 1970 N.B.A. playoffs.

  • [New York Times] Rush to Buy New Air Jordan Sneakers Leads to Arrests (Sat, 24 Dec 2011 05:00:31 GMT)
    Shoppers around the country broke store doors and clashed with the police as Nike’s new $180 Air Jordan basketball shoes went on sale.

  • [New York Times] Injured Bryant Banks on Playing in Season Opener (Sat, 24 Dec 2011 01:18:29 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant plans to play in the Los Angeles Lakers’ season opener against the Chicago Bulls on Sunday despite a torn ligament in his right wrist.

  • [New York Post] Knicks take aim at Celtics and division supremacy (Sat, 24 Dec 2011 03:17:49 -0500)
    Christmas 2011 may go down as the day the Celtics symbolically pass the division torch to the Knicks for the next few years.
    Before the Knicks can dream of winning a championship and hunting down the Heat, they must start with securing the Atlantic Division crown and dethroning the Celtics…

  • [New York Post] Melo backs K-Mart shop (Sat, 24 Dec 2011 01:21:51 -0500)
    The Knicks have one roster spot still open entering tomorrow’s season opener, and Carmelo Anthony hopes it eventually goes to his former Nuggets teammate Kenyon Martin, according to an NBA source.According to the source, Anthony wants Martin in New York, though he is not permitted to sign a…

  • 62 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Dec 24 2011)

    1. Spree8nyk8

      I mean it’s good for us if Pierce is out, but I’ll hate it bc I really expected the Knicks to win either way. And I have a bunch of Celtic Fan friends. And they are the kings of excuses. Now they’ll end up having a reasonable one if they lose, and if they win I’ll never hear the end of it.

    2. daJudge

      You’re right. Lots and lots of Celts fans in upstate. They’re brutal. But don’t worry, we still have to play them 2/3, 3/4, 4/17 and maybe in the post season. I’m sure we’ll all have enough of Paul Pierce’s jump shooting and Tebowing by then! BTW, at this point I’ll gladly I’ll take the win and deal with the gloating. Go Knicks.

    3. danvt

      “He is totally different, a big agile guy that anchors your defense and talks, chattering up the whole team,” said Herb Williams, the 6-foot-10 Knicks assistant coach who has been around the N.B.A. since 1981 and has learned a few things about the species colloquially known as the big. “Normally, you’re begging guys to do that. He does it with no problem. He even does it on the bench, and hopefully it gets contagious to where everybody talks.”

      Lost the link right now but this is from Howard Beck in the Times. Looks like we have a player who won’t be afraid to get in anyones face who doesn’t hustle. Jeff Van Gundy says it every broadcast he does. When your best player is also your hardest working, that leads to a successful culture. Tyson is certainly our best in terms of defense and rebounding. It makes me think this season will truly be different. I hope so.

    4. jon abbey

      Spree8nyk8:
      I mean it’s good for us if Pierce is out, but I’ll hate it bc I really expected the Knicks to win either way.And I have a bunch of Celtic Fan friends.And they are the kings of excuses.Now they’ll end up having a reasonable one if they lose, and if they win I’ll never hear the end of it.

      it’s just one regular season game, it’s not the Super Bowl. NY lost all 8 times they played Boston last year, I wish Rondo was out tomorrow too.

    5. Spree8nyk8

      Abbey, I know what you’re saying and I agree. No matter what happens tomorrow I won’t be too happy or too sad. But I still am going to hear about it non stop one way or another.

    6. Caleb

      Woodson’s Atlanta teams weren’t much on defense. But spending any practice time on D seems to be new, around here…

    7. Z-man

      To be fair, Celts fans have been hearing form us how we would have beaten them if Amare and Chauncy didn’t get injured and if the refs didn’t rob us at the end of game 1. A win is a win.

    8. Tony Pena

      Mehmet Okur for a second round pick? Not bad at all. Was going to suggest MDA could’ve used him, but realized we can’t afford the contract.

      Re: Yesterday’s thread, John Starks. Sorry but I would rather have above average, defensive, chucker Starks than perfect J, 100 million dollar contract, choker Allan Houston. Can’t remember how many times dude set me up in big time moments. That’s why I’ll also rather have “inefficient” Melo over any wing not named Wade, Bryant, Durant… and I think thats it. Ok maybe Pierce. Man those game winning shots last year were SWEET. How many was that, like 3 in half a season? Dude is big time. And you know what, Stat has a little bit of that too. :)

      Another random: Shumpert reminds me a little of WC. It’s true, expectations should be tempered. But man when he puts all those tools together, in a year or two hopefully, he’s going to be fun to watch.

    9. Tony Pena

      Gmennnnn. I think so man. Besides that running shot against Miami, which barely went in, lol, what else? Ok I’m exaggerating a bit. But idk nothing but bad memories with Houston after that. Feel like it was the beginning of the end.

    10. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Tony Pena:

      Re: Yesterday’s thread, John Starks. Sorry but I would rather have above average, defensive, chucker Starks than perfect J, 100 million dollar contract, choker Allan Houston. Can’t remember how many times dude set me up in big time moments. That’s why I’ll also rather have “inefficient” Melo over any wing not named Wade, Bryant, Durant… and I think thats it. Ok maybe Pierce. Man those game winning shots last year were SWEET. How many was that, like 3 in half a season? Dude is big time. And you know what, Stat has a little bit of that too. :)

      This point has been made over and over again:

      If you have a more efficient player, you’re not in that “do or die” situation as often. Do you concede that point?

    11. BigBlueAL

      Houston scored 30 pts in Game 5 vs Miami the previous season which many dont remember. Plus in 1999 he scored over 30 pts 3 different times (1 each vs Atlanta, Indiana and the Spurs in the only win in the Finals). His Game 6 vs Indiana which got them to the Finals he scored 32 pts on 12 for 17 shooting. The other 2 games I mentioned he scored 34 in both games.

      He had his stinkers in the playoffs of course but he was far from a choker. Plus anyone who can light up Kobe for 53 pts in his house is good enough for me lol

    12. BigBlueAL

      And before someone brings it up yes I know Houston was extremely overpaid and wasnt a very good overall offensive player since he was just a decently efficient player who didnt pass and grabbed no rebounds. But when he was on he was a beautiful player to watch.

    13. jon abbey

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: This point has been made over and over again:

      If you have a more efficient player, you’re not in that “do or die” situation as often. Do you concede that point?

      I don’t, it’s far from that simple.

      not much of an Allan Houston fan, though, that game 6 against Indiana was as lopsided a gift game from the refs as I’ve ever seen (the famous Lakers/Kings game included).

    14. jon abbey

      Bibby questionable for tomorrow, hurt himself on a pick in practice on Wednesday, according to Berman.

    15. Tony Pena

      Absolutely THCJ, on that point. You def sink or swim with them. However, when you talk playoffs, when the defense is up, you need players that can make indefensible makes. Of course I’ll rather have D Wade, but the gap between him and let’s say melo, is much more narrower than it looks. Houston vs Starks though, inefficiency for me.

    16. Tony Pena

      JK, that’s whats crazy about that game 7 right? I remember Starks being pretty clutch besides that.

    17. jon abbey

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: This point has been made over and over again:

      If you have a more efficient player, you’re not in that “do or die” situation as often. Do you concede that point?

      you left this really general, so it’s hard to disagree with, but I’d cite the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. if a few baskets go in instead of missing in the second quarter, it could easily change everything that happens after that.

    18. Spree8nyk8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: This point has been made over and over again:

      If you have a more efficient player, you’re not in that “do or die” situation as often. Do you concede that point?

      If you are going to make this a choice between clutch and efficient that I guess I’ll choose clutch. You can be efficient and at some point you’ll still need to be clutch. If you are simply saying that some games you wouldn’t need to be clutch if you were efficient sure I’ll give you that. But it’s a regular season thing. In the playoffs you are going to need clutch. And that being said, how many games did an efficient Heat team lose last year bc Lebron failed at being clutch?

    19. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Tony Pena:
      JK, that’s whats crazy about that game 7 right? I remember Starks being pretty clutch besides that.

      Key word: “remember.” There’s no objective evidence that demonstrates him being any better under pressure than any other time. Clutch is largely a myth at the professional level. Good players are better than bad players.

    20. BigBlueAL

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Key word: “remember.” There’s no objective evidence that demonstrates him being any better under pressure than any other time. Clutch is largely a myth at the professional level. Good players are better than bad players.

      Baseball sabermetricians agree.

    21. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Spree8nyk8: And that being said, how many games did an efficient Heat team lose last year bc Lebron failed at being clutch?

      How did he fail at being clutch? Because he had one bad series during the whole playoffs? Was he not clutch the season before when he had 27-19-10 during the elimination game against the Celts? Was he not clutch when he brought an otherwise awful team to the Finals? I think LeBron’s a petulant brat, but he’s a damn good basketball player. It has nothing to do with “clutch.” It has to do with really good play by a really good team against another team that wasn’t nearly as deep beyond its top 3 players.

      Was LeBron not clutch against the bulls in game 3 of the ECF series last year when he scored 22, dimed 10, and rebounded 6 while having 0 turnovers?

      You can’t just pick individual games and say, “Player X is Y.” That doesn’t work.

    22. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      BigBlueAL: Baseball sabermetricians agree.

      How is baseball any different than basketball? If anything, the individual matchup between pitchers and hitters should demonstrate the highest level of stress on the individual player, yet the numbers show that clutch is a total myth.

      How do professional basketball players make it from a huge pool of talent (high school prep play, which is HIGHLY stressful for young people) to the NCAA (where there are about 3500 players at any given time in D1 basketball, a highly selective pool) to the NBA (approx. 360 players comprised of All-Americans and conference MVPs and leaders on the winningest teams)?

      What I’m saying is that if a player cannot handle pressure, he will show it before he’s given the opportunity to compete at the highest level of competition. This goes for any kind of field that relies on competition. Again, this is the concept of “flow.”

    23. BigBlueAL

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: How is baseball any different than basketball? If anything, the individual matchup between pitchers and hitters should demonstrate the highest level of stress on the individual player, yet the numbers show that clutch is a total myth.

      How do professional basketball players make it from a huge pool of talent (high school prep play, which is HIGHLY stressful for young people) to the NCAA (where there are about 3500 players at any given time in D1 basketball, a highly selective pool) to the NBA (approx. 360 players comprised of All-Americans and conference MVPs and leaders on the winningest teams)?

      What I’m saying is that if a player cannot handle pressure, he will show it before he’s given the opportunity to compete at the highest level of competition. This goes for any kind of field that relies on competition. Again, this is the concept of “flow.”

      Just to let you know I was agreeing with you :-)

      Your point has been made many times by baseball sabermetricians and I agree with them and with you.

    24. iserp

      I think LeBron’s problem is not that he is not clutch, but that he hasn’t a clue about team play and is worse at that than inefficient chuckers. At least inefficient chuckers do what they usually do at the end of games… LeBron is another level of superheroness deciding to do it all by himself in utterly strange ways.

      I mean, LeBron pads his stats in the usual way… but his repertoire is limited. He is not a great pure shooter, and he doesn’t post up. If you don’t allow transition plays (perhaps using fouls intelligently) at the end of games, he becomes much more average. If Lebron doesn’t stick to his role (best transtion player in the world, physical beast), and tries to do hero things (this kind of plays Kobe makes somewhat inefficiently), things become much worse for his team.

    25. Spree8nyk8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: How did he fail at being clutch? Because he had one bad series during the whole playoffs? Was he not clutch the season before when he had 27-19-10 during the elimination game against the Celts? Was he not clutch when he brought an otherwise awful team to the Finals? I think LeBron’s a petulant brat, but he’s a damn good basketball player. It has nothing to do with “clutch.” It has to do with really good play by a really good team against another team that wasn’t nearly as deep beyond its top 3 players.

      Was LeBron not clutch against the bulls in game 3 of the ECF series last year when he scored 22, dimed 10, and rebounded 6 while having 0 turnovers?

      You can’t just pick individual games and say, “Player X is Y.” That doesn’t work.

      LOL, first off, where did I say playoffs where it relates to Lebron? I said games, last year he failed to close in almost every game he was called on. And since you want to bring playoffs into it sure we can do that too. He flat out sucked in the fourth quarter in the playoffs. Do you think the rap on him was plucked out of thin air? He’s developed a reputation as a player that only plays well for 3 quarters. And I’m not even going that far. I think Lebron is a fantastic player. But you dismissing clutch and saying it is a myth is ridiculous. I mean I understand the honor you place on being a math geek but good lord man, to say there is no such thing as clutch is outright stupid. You are wrong here bud.

    26. Tony Pena

      Keyword being “largely” a myth. Even you’re not sure. I don’t think anybody who reads this blog is even close to being anti efficiency or anti statistical evidence. Where’s the evidence that Starks was worse on high pressure situations? Can’t be measured? To me players who are clutch are those whose numbers show that they maintain or increase their level of production when their team is facing elimination, disadvantage or anything that’s going to result negatively towards the ultimate goal: win and win it all. If it can’t be measured then it should be.

      Yours truly,
      1001001001001011

    27. danvt

      Comparing Starks to Allen Houston is apples to oranges. Starks was never considered a foundational player. He was a role player who, by virtue of an outstanding work ethic ended up playing a major role on some of the best teams in NYK history. I started this Starks thread merely by asking if TD or Landry had a possibility of having that type of impact. It was not meant to be “was Starks just ordinary” or a “who was Starks better than” or a “2-18″ post. Now, maybe Shumpert starts tomorrow and I, basically have my answer. From what I read here not too many are sanguine about the prospect of a Starks type career for TD or Landry.

    28. iserp

      BigBlueAL:
      LeBron certainly has his flaws but not having a clue about team play is not one of them.

      I wouldn’t read too much into his assist numbers…

    29. Spree8nyk8

      And also you point to the triple double he had against boston in that elimination game, he also had 9 turnovers that game and he shot 21 times. So was he efficient? I mean I can guarungoddamntee that if melo puts up that exact statline in the playoffs you will not celebrate it as an achievement. You will harp on the # of shots and turnovers. But hey, this guys not a Knick so it’s gotta be good right?

    30. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      BigBlueAL:
      LeBron certainly has his flaws but not having a clue about team play is not one of them.

      Sorry; I’m so used to the antagonism I thought you were saying that baseball and basketball aren’t analogous in this scenario.

    31. BigBlueAL

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Sorry; I’m so used to the antagonism I thought you were saying that baseball and basketball aren’t analogous in this scenario.

      lol

      I certainly disagree with alot of things you say but I do agree with you at times too and this is one of those times.

    32. BigBlueAL

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: Why?

      I assume he is referring too Hollinger’s analysis that LeBron had one of the lowest average assist value. Its something about an assist quality formula he came up with. Ironically Baron Davis had the highest average assist value.

    33. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Spree8nyk8: Do you think the rap on him was plucked out of thin air?He’s developed a reputation as a player that only plays well for 3 quarters.And I’m not even going that far.I think Lebron is a fantastic player.But you dismissing clutch and saying it is a myth is ridiculous.I mean I understand the honor you place on being a math geek but good lord man, to say there is no such thing as clutch is outright stupid.You are wrong here bud.

      This isn’t intelligent discourse, spree.

    34. Spree8nyk8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: This isn’t intelligent discourse, spree.

      How? You are completely dismissing one notion that an overwhelming majority would say does in fact exist and backing it up with positive stats while leaving out the negatives (you leaving out the turnovers for lebron and the inability to hit game winning shots).

    35. BigBlueAL

      Tony Pena:
      I really didn’t want to mention the Giants and clutch, second half swoon, etc… But, safety!

      Yes sir!! Gotta give the D credit, they played great today. Of course it was vs the Jets offense so not exactly something to brag about lol

    36. danvt

      I believe in clutch simply because I’ve seen so many who don’t have it. I mean, you know, the times you can barely stand to look at the situation. It can’t be that the jocks don’t feel that pressure too. I think some players get the sense, at moments like that, that they’re the best on the court and everyone else is more scared than them. This psychology can be very powerful and can result in Jordan and Bird like performances.

      Most of the time I think pro athletes have their emotions mastered and that’s what makes them pros. In Lebrons case, I think, he’s just not had that great game in the ultimate situation yet, but I don’t think he’s ever really shrunk from anything emotionally, though that’s the rap on him. He just needs to develop a corner three.

    37. nicos

      Scroll through the clutch stats for the last few years at 82games.com- the idea that Lebron sucks in the clutch is ridiculous. Even in a down year (for him) he was still better than Wade last year: http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
      His numbers with the Cavs were pretty amazing considering that everyone knew what was coming and still couldn’t stop him. He had a bad series against the Mavs, one bad game against the Celtics a couple of years ago and people want to label him a choker which considering how much success he’s had in playoffs seems crazy to me.

    38. nicos

      And Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and happy whatever else you may celebrate to everyone here at Knickerblogger! Hopefully there will be lots of wins to celebrate this year!

    39. daJudge

      Doesn’t clutch just mean that some players perform better under pressure and some don’t? Isn’t this measurable with a proper sample and controls? Surely this can be quantified. Of course this human phenomenon is not just measurable in sports, right? My own history with women would demonstrate the effect. Just a joke.

    40. tastycakes

      LeBron has had a few situations where he has LOOKED like a person who was shying away from the moment, when everything was on the line, not demanding the ball, not executing his will the way he does ALMOST EVERY NIGHT. So it makes perfect sense that he has this reputation, no matter what his larger body of work says.

      Dude is gonna be in the Finals between 4-8 more times in his career, I would think. He’ll most likely reverse that perception.

    41. jon abbey

      daJudge:
      Doesn’t clutch just mean that some players perform better under pressure and some don’t?Isn’t this measurable with a proper sample and controls? Surely this can be quantified.

      part of the problem is that every situation is a bit different. even if the score is exactly the same, the opponent is the same, the shot is the same, the defense is the same (and of course that never happens), the team’s record and position in the season is different.

    42. Spree8nyk8

      nicos:
      Scroll through the clutch stats for the last few years at 82games.com- the idea that Lebron sucks in the clutch is ridiculous.Even in a down year (for him) he was still better than Wade last year: http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
      His numbers with the Cavs were pretty amazing considering that everyone knew what was coming and still couldn’t stop him.He had a bad series against the Mavs, one bad game against the Celtics a couple of years ago and people want to label him a choker which considering how much success he’s had in playoffs seems crazy to me.

      You’re right he’s being labeled that way for no reason at all…../sarcasm

      He didn’t get that label in the post season last year, he got it during the regular season when Miami really never seemed to win any close games.

    43. tastycakes

      I seriously distrust ‘clutch’ stats. The sample size is so small, and furthermore, I think the determing statistical factors can’t do a good job of describing a situation that actually requires clutch play.

      82 games describes it as “4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points”. Doesn’t that seem a bit broad? The first basket of overtime is “clutch?”

      Ultimately it’s a label that we create and assign subjectively. Michael Jordan WAS clutch because he won REPEATEDLY when everything was on the line. Patrick Ewing was not, because he missed an easy finger roll and got dominated by Hakeem in 94. Maybe if Jordan didn’t play with Pippen and Grant/Rodman, and Ewing did, we’d think the opposite.

      Who cares? Part of the fun of sports is assigning hero (or goat) status to these humans because we can. Not everything needs to be reduced to a statistical observation, ffs.

      It’s only a problem if you’re making personnel decisions based on ‘clutchness’ which seems so subjective as to be potentially harmful.

    44. Spree8nyk8

      Also, I think maybe an easier way to look at their clutch stats is to compare it to what they do normally. I think a great player in the clutch performs fairly close to the level they normally perform at. Carmelo shoots pretty close to the same % in both situations. Lebron’s shooting % drops 11% in the clutch. THAT is what people are talking about. 11% is a lot imo. He goes from being a more efficient player during the first 43 mins than Carmelo to being a much less efficient player.

    45. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Spree8nyk8: You’re right he’s being labeled that way for no reason at all…../sarcasm

      He didn’t get that label in the post season last year, he got it during the regular season when Miami really never seemed to win any close games.

      Cherry-picking.

    46. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      danvt:
      I believe in clutch simply because I’ve seen so many who don’t have it.I mean, you know, the times you can barely stand to look at the situation.It can’t be that the jocks don’t feel that pressure too.I think some players get the sense, at moments like that, that they’re the best on the court and everyone else is more scared than them.This psychology can be very powerful and can result in Jordan and Bird like performances.

      Most of the time I think pro athletes have their emotions mastered and that’s what makes them pros.In Lebrons case, I think, he’s just not had that great game in the ultimate situation yet, but I don’t think he’s ever really shrunk from anything emotionally, though that’s the rap on him.He just needs to develop a corner three.

      Oh god. This is armchair psychology. I’m trying so hard not to sound arrogant, but “flow” is an observed phenomenon, and your individual “I think” is not.

    47. bobneptune

      iserp:
      I think LeBron’s problem is not that he is not clutch, but that he hasn’t a clue about team play and is worse at that than inefficient chuckers. At least inefficient chuckers do what they usually do at the end of games… LeBron is another level of superheroness deciding to do it all by himself in utterly strange ways.

      I mean, LeBron pads his stats in the usual way… but his repertoire is limited. He is not a great pure shooter, and he doesn’t post up. If you don’t allow transition plays (perhaps using fouls intelligently) at the end of games, he becomes much more average. If Lebron doesn’t stick to his role (best transtion player in the world, physical beast), and tries to do hero things (this kind of plays Kobe makes somewhat inefficiently), things become much worse for his team.

      agree and disagree. he certainly is a good and willing passer, but he disdains the post like meat shuns the grinder.

      he has a karl malone upper body and runs the floor like james worthy, but he wants to play like alex english instead of playing like bob pettit.

      with his physicality he should have every 3 in the league in foul trouble 2 minutes into the game. how does a 3 guard a guy who can pass like james and has his power and lift? unpossible.

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