Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Dec 22 2012)
December 22nd, 2012 by Mike Kurylo | @KnickerBlogger | Comments | Permalink |
The Knicks shot ugly, fought ugly and ultimately lost ugly.
In the worst Garden night of the season during which they fell behind by 25 points late in the third quarter, the Knicks fought the referees, fought the Bulls players, but didn’t fight hard enough to win. As the…
Knicks coach Mike Woodson said he will meet with Amar’e Stoudemire this morning and attempt to map out a game plan for his return.
Stoudemire had all but ruled himself out of tomorrow’s homestand finale against Minnesota, though Woodson won’t completely dismiss it until he speaks to…
Carmelo Anthony already was back in the Knicks locker room, having picked up two technical fouls. He heard the Garden crowd roar.
“I walked to the hallway and Woody was walking back. Then I was in the shower and Tyson was in here,â? said Anthony who quickly was joined by…
After a lousy night in Chicago two weeks ago, when he took an unheard-of 30 shots, Raymond Felton again was flummoxed by Tom Thibodeau’s pick-and-roll defense in the Knicks’ 110-106 loss to the Bulls last night.
Felton had no assists by halftime and was 3-of-12 from the field after…
Raymond Felton’s final line on Friday night may look deceiving. He finished with 21 points on 9-for-21 shooting in the Knicks’ four-point loss.
But Felton started the game 3-for-12 and is mired in a shooting slump.
“I couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean tonight,” Felton said.
The point guard is playing with bone bruises in his left and right hand but hasn’t used those injuries as an excuse.
Felton was 11-for-33 in the Knicks’ previous two games, and is shooting 38 percent from the floor in his last five games.
For most of the postgame period, the Knicks repeated themselves, attempting to avoid giving the Bulls credit for their 110-106 win — the second one in their regular-season series.
“We missed some shots,” the players echoed. “We missed some shots.”
It wasn’t until the very final seconds of media availability when Carmelo Anthony finally gave the quote that explained how Joakim Noah changed the Knicks’ game on offense.
“[Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau] let him be very aggressive tonight from the jump,” Anthony said, “and when he’s very aggressive like that and they allow that to happen, then he’s the anchor of that team, he’s the motor of that team.
Down 16 with 4:45 to play, the Knicks finally showed some fight Friday night against the Chicago Bulls.
But it wasn’t the kind of fight that wins you games. It was the kind that often leads to suspensions.
Tyson Chandler and Joakim Noah were ejected for fighting in the fourth quarter of Chicago’s win over New York. The two centers were tangled up near the rim when Chandler appeared to swing his elbow at Noah twice before turning around. Chandler and Noah then exchanged words and Noah appeared to head butt Chandler.
What do the Knicks do when the calls aren’t going their way? The team’s best player and the team’s coach decided it would be better to get ejected and go back to the locker room, rather than stick around and try to fight.
Rasheed Wallace’s mysterious “sore footâ? injury is really a stress fracture, according to a Knicks source. Officially, the team is listing Wallace’s status as day-to-day, but privately it is optimistic that the injury won’t sideline the veteran forward for an extended period of time.
The core of the Knicks this season â?? Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler and head coach Mike Woodson â?? all watched the final minutes of a 110-106 loss to the Bulls at the Garden together after the three were ejected within a span of two minutes and six seconds in a game the Knicks were really never in.
New York’s Carmelo Anthony and three others were thrown out of a foul-filled game as the Chicago Bulls beat the Knicks on Friday night for the second time this season.
The Los Angeles Clippers weren’t ready to celebrate after they set a record for the longest winning streak in the annals of a franchise that has a long and agonizing history of futility.
After the Los Angeles Clippers set a record for the longest winning streak in franchise history, Chris Paul was thinking about Ron Harper, Corey Maggette and other former players who endured all that losing.
The Knicks’ Carmelo Anthony and three others were thrown out of a foul-filled game as the Chicago Bulls beat the Knicks on Friday night for the second time this season.
In explaining the Nets’ 13-12 slump, Joe Johnson said a lack of sticking to defensive plays has hurt them. Coach Avery Johnson pointed to a need for more trust among his players.
Monta Ellis scored 5 of his 27 points in overtime, and the Milwaukee Bucks beat the Celtics in Boston, 99-94, in the teams’ last scheduled meeting of the season.
David Lee had 23 points, 11 rebounds and a career-high 11 assists, Stephen Curry set a career high with eight 3-pointers and the Golden State Warriors extended the Charlotte Bobcats’ losing streak to 14 games with a 115-100 victory on Friday night.
Tony Parker had 25 points and Tim Duncan had 15 points and 10 rebounds and the San Antonio Spurs beat the New Orleans Hornets 99-94 on Friday night.
Rudy Gay scored 26 points, and Zach Randolph had 17 points and 13 rebounds to help the Memphis Grizzlies win their fourth straight game, 92-82 over the Dallas Mavericks on Friday night.
Monta Ellis scored five of his 27 points in overtime and the Milwaukee Bucks beat the Boston Celtics in the teams’ final meeting this season 99-94 on Friday night despite blowing a seven-point lead late in regulation.
Through 25 games, the Knicks have maintained the league’s best turnover ratio, a remarkable factor in the team’s turnaround season so far.
Roy Hibbert scored 18 points and Lance Stephenson added a season-high 16 to lead the Indiana Pacers to a 99-89 win over the Cleveland Cavaliers, who lost their sixth straight game Friday night.
Greg Monroe had 15 points and nine rebounds and rookie Andre Drummond added a double-double and the Detroit Pistons ended a six-game losing streak with a 100-68 rout Friday night.
DeMar DeRozan scored 17 points, Jose Calderon had 13 points and nine assists and the Toronto Raptors won their fifth straight game Friday night, beating the Orlando Magic 93-90.
Thaddeus Young had 18 points and 11 rebounds, and Evan Turner scored 21 points to help the Philadelphia 76ers beat the Atlanta Hawks 99-80 on Friday night.
Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).
Kevin Love has an eye injury and is out tomorrow, yay.
also DeMarcus Cousins suspended indefinitely by the team for “unprofessional behavior and conduct detrimental to the team”, we play them next Friday.
I have both Kevin Love and DeMarcus Cousins on my fantasy team lol.
It’s time for JR to start.
I agree. Bench JR when Shump comes back, but we’re getting off to bad starts with Brewer, and it doesn’t help to have two bad shooters on the floor when Ray is off. JR is also playing solid D and maybe it will motivate Brewer to step up and play better. We can bring Novak / Copeland off the bench for offensive scoring punch.
Since Love is out tomorrow I would definitely start Novak tomorrow over Brewer. Keep JR as the 6th man.
It is AWEsome that Love is out tomorrow. That should definitely now be a win where it would otherwise have been a tough matchup.
Geez Harden does again 31 pt on 13 shots.
Lin had good game also 15pt 6reb 11a 2st 1bk 2TO.
At first I was pissed we didn’t match Lin’s offer. Then I like man GM is a genius, Felton was the right choice. Now I’m crossroad again as Lin continue to play better and Felton continue shoot non-stop. If Lin can start gel with Harden, don’t tell me he couldn’t have with Melo.
Also there are 5 players who average FGA >= 16 and shoot under TS% < 0.500. Yes Felton on bottom of that list.
Rudy Gay 0.495
Brandon Jennings 0.490
Kevin Love 0.472
Monta Ellis 0.469
Raymond Felton 0.467
I would start Copeland.
This isn’t playoff-style basketball yet. Lin’s doing well lately, though. Way better than Felton.
I think the Knicks early success went to their heads a bit, they need to play with more urgency. The story is out and teams are gearing up for us now.
I posting this for last 2 games. Reward the guy if he performs. Copeland look good in Chicago game also even though Chicago was playing prevent defense at that point. Still 10pt on shot 7 in minutes 10.
Watching David Lee play recently and its so obvious how excited he is to be playing on a team that is currently winning lol. His energy level and excitement for any positive play by him or a teammate is thru the roof.
Lakers win in OT at Golden St 118-115. Kobe scores 34 by shooting 16 for 41 lol.
Insane. With Gasol/Howard/Nash in the lineup!!!!
The guy is nutcase.
Don’t remember more than a few post-ups for Howard/Gasol.
Has there been a more bizarre basketball experiment?
FWIW, saw someone tweet today that Felton leads the league with 40 “Kobe Assists” as of 12/19, ahead of Kobe’s 35.
I cannot tell you how much it amuses me that the statement I made here this summer about missed shots sometimes being the same as made shots (if they lead to easy putbacks from an open big man after a double team), that THCJ labelled the stupidest thing he’d ever heard, has now turned into a generally recognized stat. :)
haha it must be like the Red Sea parting for him.
Or emerging from the sewers like Shawshank Redemption.
Why Mike D’Antoni played Steve Nash 41 minutes in his first game back after a six-week absence and why Nash is
the linchpin to D’Antoni’s system working with the Lakers as well as it did in Phoenix, according to one NBA executive: “Mike sometimes has a hard time explaining exactly what he wants. But he doesn’t have to when Steve is out there, because Steve knows and he can translate for everybody else.”
Getting Nash back does two things. 1. Adds the best PG for running SSOL in the league. 2. Gets Duhon off of the floor – who is not an NBA-level PG now (if he ever was). I expect the Lakers to play at 55 win pace the rest of the way (assuming everyone stays healthy), which gets them to around 47 wins.
Going to be a tough Xmas matchup.
For his sake I hope that the Warriors continue to do well, because what I was fearing the most for him was him wasting all of his prime years for a shitty team. I mean, sure, the dude is making a gazillion dollars so I am not too sad for him, but it is pretty clear that Lee would be the perfect third option for many great teams out there so to see him do the same ol’ same ol’ for a shitty team was such a depressing waste of talent. There are guys like Monta Ellis, Jamal Crawford and Brandon Jennings who “deserve” to be on shitty teams, as their games don’t translate well to good team basketball (until they are past their primes and are suddenly willing to be bench players at which point they instantly become useful) and there are guys like David Lee, Tyson Chandler and Shane Battier who “deserve” to play on good teams because their skills are so conducive to good team basketball and are so wasted on shitty teams.
Some other players whose skills are currently being wasted on shitty teams but would fit perfectly on good teams:
Trevor Ariza
Gerald Henderson
Tayshaun Prince
Anderson Varejao
The depths of your idiocy continue to amaze me.
Classic Cock Jowles!
Classic, but I’m also not sure how Kobe assists are “generally recognized”. Is basketball reference starting to track it? I get the concept, but it’s wothless as an “advanced” (cough) stat as long as it’s impossible to separate how much of it is calculated vs. just chuckery combined with having a big man that is good at making putbacks on the floor. Have Felton’s KA’s istayed in proportion to his FGA’s over his career? Or did having a center like Joel Pryzbilla manning the rim kill that?
I know that your role on this board is to be the smarmy young hipster, but I wouldn’t be happy with being a net zero. Just because you’re not jon “I hate the box score, but Kobe Assists are rad” abbey doesn’t mean anyone gives a shit about your presence here.
If you can make one comment in 2013 that doesn’t read like mediocre Deadspin comment-troll’s puerile retort porn, we’ll all be duly impressed with you, Doug Chu.
“generally recognized” just means that they seem to be mentioned fairly often after that initial article.
THCJ, I hope you’re trolling everyone on Twitter who ever mentions that term also, you’re adorable.
man, is this shit unnecessary. I so wish there was some real moderation here occasionally, THCJ is a shitty shitty shitty poster 98 percent of the time.
For once I hope I’m surprised by the knick medical staff and we actually see amare play tonight. How awesome would it be if he came of the bench and gave us 20 minutes? I mean nash practices twice for the first time in 8 weeks, and is 39, then plays 41 minutes. Plus I don’t like all the minutes Tyson is playing especially with sheed and camby both out. Sheed is probably done for a while, as sore foot has morphed into “stress reaction”.
I really wish you’ll drink bleach for Christmas, you miserable little twat.
aww, that’s sweet, thanks again for your insight here as always. *duh, rebound is good, duh, missed shot is bad, duh, this is advance stat, duh.*
well, I think Felton tries to put it up softly at the rim more often since he knows that Chandler has a good shot to clean it up if he does, so it’s really hard to untangle the two, which is all I’ve been saying all year. Chandler isn’t as good an offensive player as his TS% makes him look, and Felton isn’t as bad as his shooting numbers make him look.
Dude. You might want to take a deep breath and a long look in the mirror and think about whether posting here right now is really a hobby that’s making you happy and improving your quality of life. You’re obviously a smart guy but being so very, very angry and bitter all the time repels anyone who might be sympathetic to your opinions about basketball. Which is all we’re doing here, after all, discussing basketball. Not really something worth getting so heated about.
Even if Felton isn’t as bad as he seems and Chandler isn’t as good as he seems, we all know who the better player is (by a WIDE margin). Felton is an average to below average player because he takes too many shots he simply cannot make on a consistent basis. He also can’t stay in front of his defender consistently, which is why everyone now knows the diar importance of Iman Shumpert’s return. In fact, if Felton was a good offensive player, the return of Amar’e Stoudemire wouldn’t be so necessary to take away from Felton’s absurd usage for a player with his efficiency. He’s a good player when asked to not turn the ball over and get his teammates involved, which been very valuable. But can he shoot? No.
And his leading the league in Kobe Assists is also bullshit. Can we see a list of players who lead the league in this stat? The last I remembered, it was Dion Waiters, Kobe
Wow. And you’re allowed to shape young minds?
That said, jon, I’m not on board with the whold “Kobe assist” thing. If your argument is that it is some kind of measure of a PG’s ability to penetrate and get to the rim, fine. The bottom line is that it’s a cop-out for Felton being unable to finish. I suppose you can say that having a great garbage man like Tyson makes it tolerable to continue to let Felton brick shot after shot at the rim, but that would be the case for any PG in the D-league with ball skills and quickness.
(cont.)
and Melo. The guys grabbing their rebounds are Anderson Varejao, Dwight Howard, and Tyson Chandler. In my opinion, it’s more about the rebounders’ ability to clean the glass than it is the shooters’ ability to shoot a ball that will fall easily into the rebounders’ hands. The Kobe Assist is a rather dumb stat whether people site it or not, just like how people believe WP/48 and other linear metrics are stupid.
cite*, not site.
Exactly. We’re lucky to have Tyson to flush those turd floaters Felton keeps squeezing out. With Melo out, it’s really scary that our offensive options are basically Felton floater on the P&R (because teams know better than to leave Tyson) or JR dribble dribble dribble stepback. Amare hopefully will alleviate some of this.
my argument continues to be that Chandler isn’t as good an offensive player as his TS% makes him look, and Felton isn’t as bad as his shooting numbers make him look.
I’m not saying Felton is great or even an average NBA starter, just that he is forced into some bad shots by the inability of many of the guys around him to do much on their own. Chandler, Kidd, Brewer, Novak, none of these guys are capable of getting their own shots on offense, so if Melo or JR aren’t in the game or are going badly, the offense would end up with a lot of 24 second violations or air balls if Felton didn’t shoot.
he should shoot less, he hasn’t shot well, but he also shouldn’t be as much of a scapegoat as he’s been when the failings are often team-wide.
I think that’s pretty reasonable- but 19 shots per game or whatever it’s up to now is just way to many. I think though that the real problem is the long 2′s, and I think Prigioni could play more, not because he’s better, but because he does have a different mentality – pass and create first, and probably has better court vision.
And, I’m not on board with the Kobe assist thing either, mostly this idea has been ridiculed, for good reason.
OTOH IF Felton can learn to make that floater much more consistently then that’s a different matter – that’s a shot that always frustrates otherwise good defense, and if it’s a real threat then other things open up. But, it’s a really tough shot, which is why so few PG’s really have had a good one.
google “Kobe assist”, there are some good pieces out there from the past few weeks attempting to investigate and analyze this phenomena, of course with a typical not-worth-reading WoW dismissal of it.
http://courtvisionanalytics.com/the-kobe-assist-deleted-scenes/
“I do however absolutely believe that teams are units, and good schemes that align shot timing, shot locations, and rebounding positioning can increase second chance points. Exhibit A this season is Felton and Chandler in New York. Many astute Knicks fans pointed this out, and the numbers back it up. ”
I see our own Frank has a comment there, this writer says he is presenting this with much more data behind it at the next Sloan conference.
*phenomenon, not phenomena
Felton is definitely being hampered by the sore hands, anyone who’s had bone bruises knows they are a bitch and last forever. However, he shouldn’t be shooting as much, I’d rather see JR launch step-back 3′s than Felton shoot clanger after clanger.
In jon’s defense, I think an interesting stat would be the net score change between a player’s shot and his team’s next possession, or something like that. For example, if a certain type of miss triggers a fast break so that the overall result is a minus in point differential, then the “Kobe assist” might have more validity. I also think that when a player takes a shot and misses but gets the foul call, it’s still a missed shot in theory in that it doesn’t lead directly to points but to the opportunity to shoot FTs for points. So if Felton misses a layup/floater but either 1. he gets fouled, 2. the player coming in for the offensive rebound gets fouled, 3. the ball is ORebounded or tapped out for another possession or 4. the team has a better opportunity to get back in transition after a miss, these are all better results than a shot that leads to an easy rebound or a good shot in transition for the other team. Not sure if I’m articulating this well, but it would be sort of a +/- for all shot attempts, including misses when a player is fouled in the act.
Do you think I actually get angry at my keyboard? Last season, I would get off Knickerblogger, turn to Ms. Jowles and say, “Man, some people are really dumb,” and then we’d go play with kittens at the local cat rescue. If you think that I actually get upset about these things, you are imagining something very different from what happens in front of my keyboard.
And for the record, I would never wish such a quick end as jon abbey drinking bleach; I’m guessing, given his mental acuity, that he’s been eating lead paint chips for years already, which is a much slower and gradual self-elimination method. I do wish him all success in his endeavor.
My official performance evaluation, from both students and superiors, is absolutely remarkable. I have many ratings on “Ratemyprofessor.com,” and a 4.6 overall rating. If you think I’m some crotchety “my way or the highway” asshole in my professional life, you are imagining the wrong guy behind this keyboard. Here’s a fun little anecdote: One of my former students is on the advisory panel with the dean of liberal arts at my institution, and he actually told the dean that my class was the most important he’s taken at the university so far because I help my students develop the tools to think critically, rather than promote my own agenda re: political, social, or ethical matters. A class, he told the dean (who told me), where he felt comfortable to voice his opinions (and this student has political and epistemological views that run diametrically opposite to mine). Isn’t it ironic? Dontcha think?
Would you care to continue judging my professional performance based on the way I e-treat a fawning Carmelo Anthony seed-rag, a denier of economics, and a blithering fuckwit?
heh, again, I’ve taken shits that are smarter than you come across here, and I don’t believe a single thing you say about yourself anonymously. for all we know, you’re a 14 year old in your mom’s basement.
Hah, okay. If you say so. Does your lovely wife know you call people twats and tell them to drink bleach before the two of you go frolic with kittens?
Shit, how did you know? I hope you come to a Knickerblogger meet-n-greet so I can hold you down and spit half-chewed bar wings in your mouth to simulate you swallowing ruruland’s bullshit at every opportunity.
I hope someday you’re able to “think critically” about basketball, or you find another way to spend your spare time.
I want to vomit in your mouth. Erotically.
heh, I will enjoy continuing to methodically dismantle your entire basketball belief system in post after post after post to the point where you have nothing intelligent to say in response.
“You know, even Alan Hahn believes the Kobe Assist could really change the way we–”
[puts fingers deep in throat]
[jon abbey gasps, coughs, chokes, and swallows]
[exeunt]
24/7/365, I will be here kicking your ass, 366 days in leap years.
Imagine the reactions of of Cock Jowles’ students if they ever stumbled on his Knickerblogger “oeuvre.”
O CAPTAIN MY CAPTAIN
THCJ, I have no doubt that when in a forum where you are undoubtably the ultimate authority on whatever is being discussed, and clearly the most intelligent guy in the room, and the room is one where the odds that a student would seriously challenge your views are nil, and the odds that any student that had the audacity to challenge your views would be intellectually capable of getting the upper hand are double nil, that you could charm the students into thinking that you are a great professor/teacher doesn’t surprise me, or impress me. (continued…)
I wonder what your students would think if they knew that you went on record wishing a slow and painful death upon someone who had the temerity to disagree with your take on NBA basketball players, teams and stats. There is something very twisted about those posts that can’t be explained away by the “professional performance” stuff you offer. Would it matter to you if Jerry Sandusky’s former player raved about his positive influence on their lives (and flocks of them did), or if a Catholic priest was a pillar of his community to all in his parish despite being a monster in his private life?
As someone who is responsible for screening, hiring, and evaluating educators, I can say without reservation: if I became aware that a teacher at my school was the author of the posts you made in this thread, it would raise some character concerns about that person.
Calling someone stupid, ignorant, an a-hole, etc. is one thing. Being unable to express frustration with a nemesis on the topic of NBA basketball without resorting to crudest, vile, boundary-less invective is inexcusable for anyone professing to be learned abour anything important. Honestly, I feel sorry for you, and for the students that only know the sanitized facade you display to them when unthreatened by intelligent dissent.
seriously, I’ve been in more than my share of internet forum squabbles over the past fifteen years or so, but some of these posts are way beyond the pale, and Mike K should be ashamed for letting this kind of behavior continue here (I assume he just hasn’t seen this thread, but I am probably going to bring it to his attention after the holiday if no one ele has already).
*no one ELSE, argh
Also, a professor citing his ratemyprofessor score trying to impress strangers on the internet is painfully embarrassing.