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Thursday, December 18, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Monday, Aug 19 2013)

  • [New York Post] Felton enjoys Pierce stoking NY feud (Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:55:36 -0500)
    Raymond Felton has heard the chatter from Paul Pierce recently about how the Nets are coming after the Knicks and want to take over New York.
    Well, Felton has his own message for Pierce: Not so fast.
    “Well, when you’ve got somebody like Paul Pierce talking every day, every…

  • [New York Post] Strong upticks for Knicks tix (Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:44:43 -0500)
    Despite the perception they have slid in the Eastern Conference power rankings, including behind the Nets, the Knicks maintain business is booming.According to data that will be announced publicly Wednesday on the Garden’s earnings call, the Knicks’ season-ticket renewal rate climbed to more than 97 percent — the highest…

  • [New York Daily News] Isola: Best in NY? There’s no trophy for that (Mon, 19 Aug 2013 03:03:14 GMT)
    The only players who should be debating “who is the best basketball team in the city” are the kids from Lincoln High School and Boys & Girls. It’s a cute argument for teams in the PSAL. When it involves the two professional teams separated by one famous bridge and a few games in the standings, it is beyond silly.    

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Womens Basketball: Moore Leads Minnesota to Rout of Liberty (Mon, 19 Aug 2013 03:16:12 GMT)
    The former UConn star Maya Moore scored a season-high 28 points, including six 3-pointers, and the host Minnesota Lynx beat the Liberty, 88-57.    

  • [New York Times] Again Away From Delaware, but Finally at Home (Mon, 19 Aug 2013 00:03:12 GMT)
    Elena Delle Donne once needed to find herself, and she did. Now she has the Chicago Sky in line for their first W.N.B.A. playoff berth in their eight-year history.    

  • 43 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Monday, Aug 19 2013)

    1. TDM

      There is an unconfirmed report that Jorts may have signed with the Pistons. I read that they were passing on Jason Collins, so there may be something to the rumor.

      If true, we can revisit the Harrellson / Laimbeer comparisons.

    2. Brian Cronin

      Interesting signing. Their roster is going to be fascinating seeing how they fit Asik in there. Morey said the other day that they’re going to try playing Asik at the center with Howard at power forward and see what happens with that.

    3. Z-man

      Brian Cronin:
      Interesting signing. Their roster is going to be fascinating seeing how they fit Asik in there. Morey said the other day that they’re going to try playing Asik at the center with Howard at power forward and see what happens with that.

      I think that’s a great idea, so long as Dwight buys into it. He could certainly guard most PFs but teams might try to draw him away from the basket with guys like…BARGNANI!

    4. yellowboy90

      How would they have enough space in the pnr with Asik & Howard? I still think Morey is grand standing and will trade Asik

    5. massive

      yellowboy90:
      How would they have enough space in the pnr with Asik & Howard? I still think Morey is grand standing and will trade Asik

      How crazy would it be if they traded Asik and Lin for Rondo and Gerald Wallace?

    6. lavor postell

      If they are going to use strictly as the backup 5 it makes sense to keep him because of how atrocious their defense was last year without him. Dwight and Asik taking turns alternately in anchoring 4 out 1 in spread makes the Rockets extremely dangerous.

      If the idea is to use them in tandem I think that’s a fucking terrible idea. I’d pay money to watch Dwight try and defend any kind of stretch 4. On the other end the Asik-Howard pairing makes no sense since the paint will be clogged on every possession. Neither of them has any semblance of a competent mid-range jumper or a sophisticated passing game from the high post.

      In short I think Asik’s value can only be maximized on this Rockets team in a strict back-up role to Howard, which to me has a ton of value. If Howard and Asik are both healthy come playoff time, Houston’s defense will be formidable for a full 48 minutes. I can’t think of another team in the NBA that could boast such a formidable interior defense for a full 48, using a single true big man. Indiana uses West and Hibbert. Houston could potentially anchor a top-10 defense while maintaining their offensive advantage by spreading the floor at all times.

    7. yellowboy90

      massive: How crazy would it be if they traded Asik and Lin for Rondo and Gerald Wallace?

      I was thinking of a trade before the season and I doubt the rockets would take on Wallace contract but who knows.

    8. Brian Cronin

      How would they have enough space in the pnr with Asik & Howard? I still think Morey is grand standing and will trade Asik

      It seems a bit late to trade him, doesn’t it?

      I tend to agree with the theory that Asik will end up “strictly” as Howard’s back-up (although they’re definitely going to try the 4/5 thing), but man, what an under-use of Asik’s talents.

    9. massive

      Brian Cronin: It seems a bit late to trade him, doesn’t it?

      I tend to agree with the theory that Asik will end up “strictly” as Howard’s back-up (although they’re definitely going to try the 4/5 thing), but man, what an under-use of Asik’s talents.

      I really wouldn’t be surprised if they traded Asik for a better fit at any point before the trade deadline. An Asik for Ryan Anderson trade seems like a good move for both teams.

    10. Brian Cronin

      Fair enough. That would fit pretty well (Anderson’s shot is sick. Can you imagine him, Harden and Parsons surrounding Howard?). I just figure such a deal would have happened by now.

    11. yellowboy90

      I thought they already passed on a Anderson for Asik deal. Also, the Harden deal was pretty late last year. Wasn’t it?

      Anderson would be a nice fit though. He may not be as good but Patrick Patterson may have helped.

    12. Brian Cronin

      I don’t know if they passed on it or if it was just rumored by a lot of people because it seemed to make so much sense with New Orleans not actually currently having a real starting center on the team (I suppose they’re going to go with Davis there).

    13. Brian Cronin

      By the way, just curious – why trade Noel and a pick for Holliday if you’re then going to deal Robin Lopez and then sign Tyreke Evans? How does that make any sense for New Orleans? They are literally paying over $10 million each to three separate combo guards (okay, technically $9.7 to Holliday)! While having to play Anthony Davis at center. How does that make any sense? Okay, the Davis part might actually make sense, but not the three high-paid combo guards part!

    14. yellowboy90

      I thought the Portland and N.O. deal didn’t really make sense for either side. Portland gave up on Hickson because of his D something Robin Lopez has problems with. They could have kept Hickson for a lower price.

    15. Z-man

      Is is too much to ask that Amare become to us at least what Antonio McDyess was to the Pistons? Similar players, no? After years of knee woes, McDyess played all 82 games twice during that team’s title contending years and was a main cog.

    16. Garson

      Z-man:
      Is is too much to ask that Amare become to us at least what Antonio McDyess was to the Pistons? Similar players, no? After years of knee woes, McDyess played all 82 games twice during that team’s title contending years and was a main cog.

      Great comparison!

      Just hearing mcdyess name makes me cringe… Worst trade in knicks history in my opinion… Camby Nene AND Marc Jackson (end of his carreer but still solid) for McDyess and i think it was a second rounder.. uch

    17. lavor postell

      Garson: Great comparison!

      Just hearing mcdyess name makes me cringe… Worst trade in knicks history in my opinion… Camby Nene AND Marc Jackson (end of his carreer but still solid) for McDyess and i think it was a second rounder.. uch

      Worst thing about that trade is we could have just drafted STAT at No. 9 when people were talking about him being a young McDyess. Ugh I cringe everytime I think of Don Chaney leaving McDyess in for 38 minutes in a meaningless preseason game.

    18. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      massive: I really wouldn’t be surprised if they traded Asik for a better fit at any point before the trade deadline. An Asik for Ryan Anderson trade seems like a good move for both teams.

      I love Anderson, but the idea of having two huge defensive big men (I know Howard’s short, but so large otherwise) on the floor at all times (including a 12-minute space where they are denying all penetration and post play on each side of the floor)?

      That’s one scary team, even if there are diminishing returns. Add Brewer to the mix, and baby, you got a stew goin’ on!

    19. Z

      Z-man:
      Is is too much to ask that Amare become to us at least what Antonio McDyess was to the Pistons? Similar players, no? After years of knee woes, McDyess played all 82 games twice during that team’s title contending years and was a main cog.

      Not too much to wish for, but definitely too much to ask for. McDyess missed 2 1/2 straight years of basketball only to come back and be a better player in his 30s than he was in his 20s. That makes him not one but two exceptions to pretty well set rules. If Amar’e can pull a McDyess, the Knicks can win a title. But, if the Knicks need Amar’e to pull a McDyess to win a title, I’ll bet on the field all day long.

    20. custer

      mokers:
      http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2013/8/19/4608166/knickstape-how-should-the-knicks-isolate-carmelo-anthony

      Great look at Carmelo’s isos and the top of shots and starting locations where he is more/less successful.

      Good read, thanks for posting.

      Would be nice to see Melo drive more, but I do feel like he gets called for hooking his arm around defenders about 10000x more often than anyone else in the league. Obviously there’s bias on my part in that I’m looking for it, but it still sucks that we’re losing 2-3 high-efficiency shots (and getting Melo in foul trouble) in a ton of games.

    21. KnickfaninNJ

      It’s interesting that GG hasn’t filled the 15th roster spot yet. The Knicks would clearly like another big man to help at center. Given that we haven’t signed say, Earl Barron and don’t seem to be working anyone out, it may be that some sort of deal is in the works. I say this because when the Knicks clearly needed a third point guard they were working out mostly big men. It turned out they were actively negotiating with Udrih. Maybe something like that is going on now with a big man. This assumes GG isn’t on vacation, which I suspect he needs but isn’t taking.

    22. KnickfaninNJ

      custer: Good read, thanks for posting.

      Would be nice to see Melo drive more, but I do feel like he gets called for hooking his arm around defenders about 10000x more often than anyone else in the league. Obviously there’s bias on my part in that I’m looking for it, but it still sucks that we’re losing 2-3 high-efficiency shots (and getting Melo in foul trouble) in a ton of games.

      I looked at the article. It was very good. But I think some of Melo’s pull ups that the article complained he took too many of come from failed drives on his part. The example video showed him driving but the defender kept up well and then Melo pulled up and shot.

    23. DRed

      Anyway: What did the location data tell us?

      “Anthony’s best spot, the right wing, also sports the highest percentage of shots – which means the Knicks are somewhat maximizing Melo’s isolation value.”

      Well, not really. There just aren’t enough shots and the difference between the right wing, the left wing, and the left elbow are so small as to seem statistically insignificant. If Carmelo hit 4 or 5 more shots from the left elbow and missed 4 or 5 more from the right wing the results would be reversed.

      These type articles are interesting, but ultimately I don’t think they’re that useful.

    24. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      DRed:
      Anyway: What did the location data tell us?

      “Anthony’s best spot, the right wing, also sports the highest percentage of shots – which means the Knicks are somewhat maximizing Melo’s isolation value.”

      Well, not really.There just aren’t enough shots and the difference between the right wing, the left wing, and the left elbow are so small as to seem statistically insignificant.If Carmelo hit 4 or 5 more shots from the left elbow and missed 4 or 5 more from the right wing the results would be reversed.

      These type articles are interesting, but ultimately I don’t think they’re that useful.

      What would be interesting is to see how his shot distribution changes over the course of his career. That xPPS statistic is a really cool thing, but it doesn’t, as far as I know, give you a lot of options to view data. Just “xPPS” and actual PPS.

    25. Unreason

      DRed:
      There just aren’t enough shots and the difference between the right wing, the left wing, and the left elbow are so small as to seem statistically insignificant.

      Not sure if you literally meant statistically insignificant or – of no practical consequence. If you meant it literally I don’t think you’re right. The p value for a chi square test of the difference in makes and misses across the 5 locations is .00013, i.e. not what you’d expect to see by chance. The attempts per location is well above the minimum N in most rules of thumb (5-10).

      DRed: If Carmelo hit 4 or 5 more shots from the left elbow and missed 4 or 5 more from the right wing the results would be reversed.

      Since the goal was optimization, looking for small advantages to exploit, is it damning that a difference of 4-5 would have a large impact?

      DRed: I don’t think they’re that useful.

      I’m skeptical too; maybe for different reasons. I suspect the things being correlated (location and scoring success) are both partly caused by many other factors. Melo isn’t being randomly assigned to take a shot starting from one of these locations under otherwise equivalent conditions. The samples from each location aren’t independent of all the things that lead to the attempt starting from there and the things the effect the chances of scoring, apart from Melo’s skill. I suspect the task of analytically isolating the effects of location is difficult or impossible because of the number of factors affecting both predictor and outcome and because some important factors aren’t measured.

      Like you I found the article interesting. He could have been more conservative in drawing conclusions, but it’s not a scientific journal.

    26. DRed

      Unreason: Not sure if you literally meant statistically insignificant or – of no practical consequence. If you meant it literally I don’t think you’re right. The p value for a chi square test of the difference in makes and misses across the 5 locations is .00013, i.e. not what you’d expect to see by chance. The attempts per location is well above the minimum N in most rules of thumb (5-10).

      Since the goal was optimization, looking for small advantages to exploit, is it damning that a difference of 4-5 would have a large impact?

      I’m skeptical too; maybe for different reasons. I suspect the things being correlated (location and scoring success) are both partly caused by many other factors. Melo isn’t being randomly assigned to take a shot starting from one of these locations under otherwise equivalent conditions. The samples from each location aren’t independent of all the things that lead to the attempt starting from there and the things the effect the chances of scoring, apart from Melo’s skill. I suspect the task of analytically isolating the effects of location is difficult or impossible because of the number of factors affecting both predictor and outcome and because some important factors aren’t measured.

      Like you I found the article interesting. He could have been more conservative in drawing…

      Not that I have any idea what you’re talking about with all that chi stuff, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what I meant. I can assure you I was not using the phrase as a term of art.

    27. flossy

      DRed: Not that I have any idea what you’re talking about with all that chi stuff

      “The Feng Shui of Carmelo Anthony isolations”

    28. Jack Bauer

      Garson: Great comparison!

      Just hearing mcdyess name makes me cringe… Worst trade in knicks history in my opinion… Camby Nene AND Marc Jackson (end of his carreer but still solid) for McDyess and i think it was a second rounder.. uch

      Ouch, that hurts even after all of these years……..

    29. dtrickey

      On a bit of a side note to the above, there’s been an interesting piece on Grantland ranking best NBA nicknames. FYI Brooklyn came it at #30 whilst the Knickerbockers too #5. I quote:

      “The franchise with aspirations of unmatched hipness, sporting killer black jerseys and a sleek new arena in the coolest borough of the coolest city, is named for an assemblage of string that hangs lifelessly below the rim. You might as well call them the Basketballs, or the Shoes, or the Wood-Paneled Floors.”

      Again it doesn’t really contribute to the thread, but sucked in anyway Brooklyn!!!!! Already 1-0 and the season hasn’t even started.

    30. Donnie Walsh

      Garson:
      Just hearing mcdyess name makes me cringe… Worst trade in knicks history in my opinion… Camby Nene AND Marc Jackson (end of his carreer but still solid) for McDyess

      And it wasn’t just what we gave up: McDyess’s expiring contract begat the Vasoline-Eating era.

    31. lavor postell

      Donnie Walsh: And it wasn’t just what we gave up: McDyess’s expiring contract begat the Vasoline-Eating era.

      I generally try and block out everything Knicks related from 2002-2009. It’s pretty hard though to forget the glut of morbidly obese big men we collected during that from Sweetney, to Eddy Curry, to the living legend Jerome James.

      http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hughes_frank&id=2249672

      Earlier this season, on this very Web site, it was opined that the five-year contract James inked was the worst free-agent signing of the summer, given his history.

      Said James in response: “It’s early. Before it is all over, they will be chanting my name and lifting me up on their shoulders and carrying me around the building.”

    32. Z-man

      I know it hurts, but putting that aside, McDyess was a highly valuable player for the Pistons. We have so far gotten pennies on the dollar by investing in Amare Stoudemire. My sincere hope is that, like McDyess, he will get back to a reasonable level of knee health this year, play 2 consecutive full seasons for us, anchor the best 2nd unit in the NBA, and be a force in the playoffs. Who would have bet on that happening to McDyess at age 30?

      Or will Amare be more like Allan Houston, and keep spiraling downward until he is completely useless?

      I’m not gonna bet against a guy who has come back from so many devastating injuries, and who keeps himself in the kind of condition he does, and who has been actively seeking to reinvent his game so that he is a better match for his current situation. Not at age 30. I would just love to se Amare demolish KG, Evans, Boozer, Bosh, etc. down on the block.

    33. thenamestsam

      lavor postell: I generally try and block out everything Knicks related from 2002-2009.It’s pretty hard though to forget the glut of morbidly obese big men we collected during that from Sweetney, to Eddy Curry, to the living legend Jerome James.

      Whenever I think of Jerome James this one game comes to mind: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/200603130NYK.html

      I was watching with a buddy and Jerome James opened up the game just dominating. Looking back at the recap now it’s actually almost as impressive as my memory of it. Made his first two shots, then an and-1 off an offensive rebound, 2 more buckets, 2 more offensive rebounds (one off his own miss) followed by another bucket. That’s 11 points and 3 offensive rebound all within the first 4 minutes of the game. The announcers were going nuts, but unfortunately Jerome was already calling to the bench for a sub. He was so exhausted after 4 minutes of good play that he was barely making it up and down the court. The Knicks called a full timeout to try to let him catch his breath but he missed his next shot and called for a sub again. The look of disgust Larry Brown gave him as he walked to the bench perfectly encapsulated that whole era of Knicks basketball.

      He came back in to start the 2nd quarter: 1st possession: travel. 2nd possession: offensive foul. The magic was gone. He scored 2 more points in the game. Jerome James – so tantalizing at times, but so, so bad.

    34. Donnie Walsh

      thenamestsam: …11 points and 3 offensive rebound all within the first 4 minutes of the game. The announcers were going nuts, but unfortunately Jerome was already calling to the bench for a sub. He was so exhausted after 4 minutes of good play that he was barely making it up and down the court.

      Maybe James should have said: “It’s early. Before it is all over, they will be chanting my name and lifting me up on their shoulders and carrying me off the court”

    35. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      thenamestsam: I was watching with a buddy and Jerome James opened up the game just dominating.

      Ugh, I remember this too. I remember him signalling for a sub. It was glorious. That’s all I remember of Big Snacks.

    36. BigBlueAL

      Nothing tops Isiah’s 11-game experiment of starting both Eddy Curry and Jerome James together during the 2006-07 season. The Knicks actually went 7-4 in those games.

    37. Brian Cronin

      Nothing tops Isiah’s 11-game experiment of starting both Eddy Curry and Jerome James together during the 2006-07 season. The Knicks actually went 7-4 in those games.

      Ugh, I can clearly recall trying to talk myself into that team. Just like I tried to convince myself “Eddy Curry/Z-Bo/David Lee is a dominant frontcourt!”

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