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Friday, April 18, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Monday, Apr 22 2013)

  • [New York Times] George Bails Out Pacers in 107-90 Win Over Hawks (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:24:09 GMT)
    Paul George offered to do anything it took to win in the playoffs.    

  • [New York Times] Heat Roll, and LeBron Says They Can Play Better (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:14:36 GMT)
    LeBron James looked at the stat sheet, then looked at the cameras and said words that were absolutely not what the Milwaukee Bucks wanted to hear.    

  • [New York Times] Thunder Blast Rockets 120-91 in Game 1 (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 05:26:27 GMT)
    As awkward as he felt going up against his former teammate, Kevin Durant didn’t have a problem quite literally standing in James Harden’s way in the NBA playoffs.    

  • [New York Times] Bucks Left Wondering How to Stop ‘Efficient’ LeBron (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 04:05:26 GMT)
    LeBron James began the Miami Heat’s playoff campaign with a display of deadly efficiency on Sunday, leading the defending NBA champions to a 110-87 win over the Milwaukee Bucks.    

  • [New York Times] Healthier Deron Williams Soars Again (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 02:47:34 GMT)
    With one reverse dunk in Game 1 against the Chicago Bulls, the Nets point guard showed that his ankles are no longer keeping him earthbound.    

  • [New York Times] James Has 27, Heat Top Bucks 110-87 in Game 1 (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 02:14:54 GMT)
    LeBron James has never taken fewer shots in a playoff game than he did on Sunday night, which at first glance might seem like a good thing for the Milwaukee Bucks.    

  • [New York Times] Roundup: Lakers Stifled by Spurs Despite Kobe Bryant’s Advice (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 02:00:05 GMT)
    San Antonio cruised to a 91-79 win in Game 1 of a first-round playoff series, frustrating the Lakers’ injured Kobe Bryant, who offered criticisms on Twitter.    

  • [New York Times] Late Defense Helps Power the Knicks (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 01:58:37 GMT)
    Knicks Coach Mike Woodson said the team’s defense in the fourth quarter of Saturday’s victory against the Celtics was the best performance in a quarter this season. The Celtics were held to 8 points.    

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: McGrady’s Spurs Stint Recalls Magical Game (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 01:46:30 GMT)
    Tracy McGrady once tormented the Spurs by scoring 13 points in 35 seconds. Now, he hopes to help them as a role player in the playoffs.    

  • [New York Times] Bryant a Frustrated Tweeter During Lakers’ Playoff Loss (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 01:17:32 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant was a frustrated television viewer and a passionate tweeter as he watched the Los Angeles Lakers lose 91-79 to the Spurs in their first-round playoff opener in San Antonio on Sunday.    

  • [New York Times] Rockets’ Jeremy Lin Has Focused on Improving His Game (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 01:05:05 GMT)
    The former Knick Jeremy Lin, with a big contract and big expectations, has focused on improving his game with the Houston Rockets, who are now in the playoffs.    

  • [New York Times] Ginobili, Parker Lead Spurs Past Lakers in Game 1 (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 00:05:28 GMT)
    Manu Ginobili cautioned against expecting too much from him in his second game back from a hamstring injury.    

  • [New York Post] Kenyon, Jason Net too old for this (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:31:25 -0500)
    It was Richard Jefferson who said for the record what everyone had been thinking for the better part of three years. This was April 25, 2004, and the New Jersey Nets had just closed out the Knicks at Madison Square Garden, the guys from the suburbs dismissing the city five…

  • [New York Post] Doc: That Kidd’s good (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:24:01 -0500)
    Celtics coach Doc Rivers is a graybeards fan. He said yesterday the Knicks’ offseason signing of antiques “was a very good strategyâ? and pointed to Jason Kidd as proof.
    “He created havoc [in Game 1],â? Rivers said. “I don’t know if I can beat Jason in a sprint, but…

  • [New York Post] Celtics looking to correct mistakes, bad choices made in Game 1 loss (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:24:01 -0500)
    The Celtics’ word for the day is “correctable.â?
    Yeah, the Celtics went with “correctableâ? over “photosynthesis.â? It’s easier to spell and besides, correctable mistakes have far more bearing on the first round Eastern Conference playoff series with the Knicks anyway.
    So while the Metro New York area sang the…

  • [New York Post] Mikes on for Game 2 (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:24:01 -0500)
    After sitting out Game 1 for ABC, MSG Network will resume its Knicks telecasts with Game 2 tomorrow â?? which means Kevin Garnett better watch his mouth.
    MSG Network recently has restarted using its court-side microphones to pick up the players’ oncourt utterances, and it’s been a boon for the…

  • [New York Post] Woody loves oldies (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:24:01 -0500)
    Too old? Too good.
    Mike Woodson believes the Knicks’ decision to stock up with aging veterans in the offseason to become the NBA’s most elderly club has proven the right decision.
    Despite the “early-bird special” jokes, the Knicks won the Atlantic Division, netted the second seed in the Eastern…

  • [New York Post] Woodson’s crew to keep defensive mindset (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 01:26:22 -0500)
    The Celtics may have already blown their best shot.
    With the Knicks vulnerable Saturday in Game 1, the Celtics may have lost their only opportunity to seize momentum in the first-round series.
    Evidence suggests the Knicks are only going to get better and it’s only going to get tougher…

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Game 2 plans involve Prigioni (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 05:41:22 GMT)
    As well as the Knicks played defensively in the second half of their Game 1 victory over the Celtics, Mike Woodson has specific ideas to improve on those shutdown efforts for the remainder of the series. Those adjustments rest largely on the return of Pablo Prigioni.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: Woodson saves Amar’e a spot (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 05:40:00 GMT)
    The Knicks still can’t be sure when – if – Amar’e Stoudemire will be available in the playoffs following March knee surgery, but Mike Woodson is certain he will put the $100 million forward right back into the rotation upon his return.    

  • [New York Daily News] Smith: Knicks oldies collection not out of style (Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:48:25 GMT)
    Knicks coach Mike Woodson heard all the jokes about his roster on opening day. The Knicks were so old, when Moses parted the Red Sea they were on the other side playing H-O-R-S-E. They were so old that their first charter flight for a West Coast swing was booked through the Wright Brothers.    

  • 54 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Monday, Apr 22 2013)

    1. Juany8

      Well last night confirmed every nightmare I’ve had about the Rockets in a playoff setting. Harden was basically useless in half court and Lin is just…. Not good. Knicks would be screwed without felton

    2. Juany8

      They might have had a chance to steal a game or two against an older San Antonio team, but OKC is just a better version of the Rockets, and Ibaka seemed particularly set on proving that OKC made the right choice on wholast night.

    3. Frank

      It’s early yet – first playoff game of his career so some jitters/nerves are to be expected from J-Lin. Even so — I think this is what the Knicks brass was worried about when it came to matching his contract last season. Question is can Jeremy step up his game when the intensity goes way up and when teams can game plan for you? I’m rooting for him, but it obviously wasn’t a good start yesterday. He’s still really young and basically is a 2nd year player, so hopefully he’ll keep getting better.

    4. marechal

      Although the Bucks-Heat series was never going to be close, it’s crazy how much contact James and Wade are able to get away with. This will become an annoying thing once they face more competitive teams (and hopefully the Knicks).

    5. Count de Pennies

      I feel no ill will towards Lin. Last year’s contract drama notwithstanding, I still like the kid and hope he enjoys a successful NBA career. I took no pleasure in watching him struggle last night.

      That said, I’m delighted by the apparent extinction of the “OMG WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE LET JEREMY WALK WE’RE TOTALLY FUCKED WITHOUT HIM” posts that would regularly appear here like mushrooms on cow shit at every downturn in the Knicks’ fortunes.

      The recurring drumbeat of that particular hysteria grew old fast. That it’s now all but vanished is just one more reason to be grateful for the team’s late season surge.

    6. jon abbey

      meh, I hope he fails miserably, he got his money.

      congrats to JR Smith on winning 6th Man of the Year!

    7. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      “The leading scorer off the bench has won this award eight times, and only once in the past 12 years has the award gone to a player who didn’t rank in the top three in terms of PPG. The leading win producer off the bench has won it four times; whenever the leading win producer wins the award, they’ve been either first or second in terms of bench PPG. Every player who won in the last 12 years has played on a team that finished with a top ten win-loss record; interestingly enough, the winner has never been on the team with the best record during these twelve years.

      Harden’s award as sixth man of the year is well earned. Unfortunately, when we examine it and how the voters acted on other candidates, we can see not much has changed. To win this award is not about scoring efficiently or helping your team win. It’s about scoring lots of points on a team that is good but not the best. On the plus side, this arbitrary algorithm happened to pick the right player this year.”

      http://wagesofwins.com/2012/05/15/james-harden-is-the-6th-man-of-the-year/

    8. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      http://bkref.com/tiny/rZI9F

      lol

      “J.R. Smith, who was never enthralled with being a back-up, has been named the NBA’s Sixth Man of the Year, according to a league source.

      A formal announcement will be made at 2:30 p.m. today.
      Smith, who will become a free agent this summer, averaged 18.1 points in 80 games while helping the Knicks win 54 regular season games. Smtih also averaged 5.3 rebounds per game to go along with 2.7 assists while shooting 42.2 percent from the floor.
      The last Knicks player to win the award was John Starks following the 1996-97 season. The Clippers’ Jamal Crawford was seen as Smith’s primary competition for the award.

      You don’t say!

    9. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      jon abbey:
      that is what Harden is best suited for, best sixth man in the league.

      You haven’t been following basketball this year, have you?

    10. Garson

      jon abbey:
      that is what Harden is best suited for, best sixth man in the league.

      The man took a very mediocre roster , in a very tough west to the playoffs…

      the team was projected and surely would have been bottom feeders before the trade. I think he deserves more than that.

    11. jon abbey

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: You haven’t been following basketball this year, have you?

      I have actually. I think Asik and Parsons deserve more credit than they get for the mild success that Houston has had. Harden is obviously their best player, but he is closer to JR Smith than he is to Melo IMO.

    12. jon abbey

      JR with the highest scoring bench season since Ricky Pierce in 1990, by the way.

      THCJ, a sixth man’s role is almost always purely scoring, which great non-scorers are being overlooked for this award?

    13. thenamestsam

      jon abbey: I have actually. I think Asik and Parsons deserve more credit than they get for the mild success that Houston has had. Harden is obviously their best player, but he is closer to JR Smith than he is to Melo IMO.

      He’s only 23 years old though and he’s going to be 2nd or 3rd team all-NBA this year. He’s not Melo yet, but he’s already a superstar and he has plenty of room to keep improving. He took on a huge challenge this year, going from a 6th man role with 2 of the ten best players in the NBA on his team to carrying his own team with very little other shot creation and he passed with flying colors.

      I think he may be more suited to being the 2nd best player on a true contender than the best player, but he’s much better than a 6th man contender already, and again, he’s 23 years old.

    14. JK47

      Come on, Harden is obviously one of the best offensive players in the league. Houston was 6th in the NBA in O-Rating– take him off there and replace him with an average SG and they’re probably 20th or worse in O-Rating.

    15. Juany8

      JK47:
      Come on, Harden is obviously one of the best offensive players in the league.Houston was 6th in the NBA in O-Rating– take him off there and replace him with an average SG and they’re probably 20th or worse in O-Rating.

      Then why is the rockets offense even better with him on the bench? Look I have a better opinion of harden than Jon, he clearly is a superstar offensive player and he’s going to keep improving as time goes on, but he chases efficiency in the same way players used to chase high scoring totals, which is awesome for his WP but not so good for the Team. I also cannot stress enough that he has less impact on defense than Chris Copeland, he’s an outright liability on that end. Asik actually matters more to the Houston defense than harden does to the Houston offense, and Asik is actually valuable to the offense because of his rebounding and screen setting. I’ve never thought that harden was quite on the level of guys like Westbrook, Melo, and Kobe, and nothing I’ve seen this season changes that. Didn’t help his cause that the rockets went ahead and fulfilled my prediction that they would have a late season collapse like the past few years. A game or 2 more and they wouldn’t even be in the playoffs.

    16. jon abbey

      yeah, Harden is a great player, but I have always expected his game to be exposed if he is the primary guy on a team, and last night we saw some of that. as Juany8 says, he’s not as good as Westbrook or Melo.

      JK47, some of that is the system also, they played like a Paul Westhead team this year.

    17. jon abbey

      thenamestsam: He’s only 23 years old though and he’s going to be 2nd or 3rd team all-NBA this year. He’s not Melo yet, but he’s already a superstar and he has plenty of room to keep improving. He took on a huge challenge this year, going from a 6th man role with 2 of the ten best players in the NBA on his team to carrying his own team with very little other shot creation and he passed with flying colors.

      I think he may be more suited to being the 2nd best player on a true contender than the best player, but he’s much better than a 6th man contender already, and again, he’s 23 years old.

      I’d say third best guy on a true contender, since the lower his usage is, the more adequate his D seems to be. this isn’t nearly as insulting as it sounds, this puts him in the category of guys like Bosh and Ibaka, which is where he belongs, not a top 5 overall guy like some claimed after the season. again, if I’m starting a team and have to choose between Westbrook and Harden, I take Westbrook every time.

    18. thenamestsam

      jon abbey: I’d say third best guy on a true contender, since the lower his usage is, the more adequate his D seems to be. this isn’t nearly as insulting as it sounds, this puts him in the category of guys like Bosh and Ibaka, which is where he belongs, not a top 5 overall guy like some claimed after the season. again, if I’m starting a team and have to choose between Westbrook and Harden, I take Westbrook every time.

      That’s fair enough. As I indicated above I think because of his age and how much his role has expanded over the last couple yeas that Harden will continue to improve from here. We already know for sure that he can be the 3rd best player on a contender because he did it last year at 22. I think in his prime if you pair him with another top 10 caliber guy you’ll have a shot at the finals.

    19. mokers

      It was exciting watching Lin last year. People who never ever asked me about the Knicks started asking me questions about the team. Definitely helped lift the spirits of a fanbase looking for something to cheer for. At least he wasn’t good enough to save D’Antoni’s job!

      I do think that it is clear that Lin is a basketball work in progress and he was released mainly for basketball reasons. Lin’s style would have crippled this team as we depend on floor spacing and limiting turnovers, the two things that he arguable needs the most work on.

      Juany, how do like what McHale is doing? I know Houston is a fun team to watch. Is there any chance they get better enough defensively to be a contender in the West in the next couple of years? What would your FA targets be.

    20. MJG1789

      We’ll see what happens, but l did wonder what would happen to James Harden in the playoffs. The thing that really separates him from other players is his ability to get to the foul line a huge number of times consistently by driving into the paint and flailing. Good for him, but it seemed like a strategy that might not work as well in the post-season as a #1 guy.

    21. flossy

      Harden is easily a top 10 offensive player who figures to continue to improve, and anyone who says otherwise is either delusional or just the chronically bitter and contrarian Jon Abbey.

      I guess since one of the youngest teams in the league, who made the playoffs a year ahead of schedule in a brutal Western conference, lost badly to the defending conference champions in their first playoff game, that means Harden is now a glorified sixth man and Lin is just straight garbage. Uh huh. Give me a fucking break. How many tries did it take Melo to lead a team out of the first round? Like 7, right?

    22. thenamestsam

      mokers:
      It was exciting watching Lin last year. People who never ever asked me about the Knicks started asking me questions about the team. Definitely helped lift the spirits of a fanbase looking for something to cheer for. At least he wasn’t good enough to save D’Antoni’s job!

      I do think that it is clear that Lin is a basketball work in progress and he was released mainly for basketball reasons. Lin’s style would have crippled this team as we depend on floor spacing and limiting turnovers, the two things that he arguable needs the most work on.

      Juany, how do like what McHale is doing? I know Houston is a fun team to watch. Is there any chance they get better enough defensively to be a contender in the West in the next couple of years? What would your FA targets be.

      Not directed to me, but they can have max cap space, so target 1A is obviously still Dwight, right? Even with a down year, he has definitely looked better recently, and pairing him with Harden would make for a nice inside outside combo. They’d presumably try to find a taker for Asik in that case, but it shouldn’t be too hard given that he made that look like an awfully good contract this year.

      Josh Smith also might make some sense. Be a little worried about him falling in love with long jumpers more than he already is, but they could use a 4, and he’d look good in a run up and down system. Might also help them shore up that D a bit.

      I think Houston is in a good place, and making the playoffs this year was mostly just a nice little bonus. They can still have plenty of cap room and with the possible exception of Lin they still have nothing but tradeable assets. Morey has a lot of flexibility still and the youth of the roster gives him the chance to keep being patient and waiting for the right guys to pair with Harden.

    23. er

      flossy: Harden is easily a top 10 offensive player who figures to continue to improve, and anyone who says otherwise is either delusional or just the chronically bitter and contrarian Jon Abbey. I guess since one of the youngest teams in the league, who made the playoffs a year ahead of schedule in a brutal Western conference, lost badly to the defending conference champions in their first playoff game, that means Harden is now a glorified sixth man and Lin is just straight garbage. Uh huh. Give me a fucking break. How many tries did it take Melo to lead a team out of the first round? Like 7, right?

      lol melo is hurt by the fact that he did exactly what you said, “I guess since one of the youngest teams in the league, who made the playoffs a year ahead of schedule in a brutal Western conference, lost badly to the defending conference champions in their first playoff game”

      Melo played in the west with prime kobe,duncan ,dirk etc yet made the playoffs every year unlike lebron in a shit east for 3 yrs

    24. jon abbey

      flossy:
      Harden is easily a top 10 offensive player who figures to continue to improve, and anyone who says otherwise is either delusional or just the chronically bitter and contrarian Jon Abbey.

      I guess since one of the youngest teams in the league, who made the playoffs a year ahead of schedule in a brutal Western conference, lost badly to the defending conference champions in their first playoff game, that means Harden is now a glorified sixth man and Lin is just straight garbage.Uh huh.Give me a fucking break.How many tries did it take Melo to lead a team out of the first round?Like 7, right?

      heh, I am definitely a contrarian but hardly bitter. tell me more about how losing Amar’e will kill the Knicks, remember that back and forth?

      and Lin sucks, are you really still arguing that? seriously Patrick Beverley looks a lot better, not to mention about 50 other PGs in the league.

      and being a top 10 offensive player is great, but being a sieve defensively in conjunction with that means you’re a third guy ideally.

    25. flossy

      er: lol melo is hurt by the fact that he did exactly what you said, “I guess since one of the youngest teams in the league, who made the playoffs a year ahead of schedule in a brutal Western conference, lost badly to the defending conference champions in their first playoff game”

      Melo played in the west with prime kobe,duncan ,dirk etc yet made the playoffs every year unlike lebron in a shit east for 3 yrs

      Melo’s career playoff record is now what, again? 9-30-something? Harden’s got a lot of losing to do to match that kind of prolonged playoff suckitude.

    26. mokers

      thenamestsam: Not directed to me, but they can have max cap space, so target 1A is obviously still Dwight, right? Even with a down year, he has definitely looked better recently, and pairing him with Harden would make for a nice inside outside combo. They’d presumably try to find a taker for Asik in that case, but it shouldn’t be too hard given that he made that look like an awfully good contract this year.

      Josh Smith also might make some sense. Be a little worried about him falling in love with long jumpers more than he already is, but they could use a 4, and he’d look good in a run up and down system. Might also help them shore up that D a bit.

      I think Houston is in a good place, and making the playoffs this year was mostly just a nice little bonus. They can still have plenty of cap room and with the possible exception of Lin they still have nothing but tradeable assets. Morey has a lot of flexibility still and the youth of the roster gives him the chance to keep being patient and waiting for the right guys to pair with Harden.

      Thanks for the thoughts. I was sort of wondering where they were on their rebuilding plan. They are a fun team to watch play O, but I was embarassed by some of the effort on D last night. I wasn’t sure if it was just because they were out of their league last night or if that was par for the course. Surprised by how well Asik can finish in the lane, but it seemed like he was the only one that wanted to contest anything in the lane.

    27. flossy

      jon abbey: heh, I am definitely a contrarian but hardly bitter. tell me more about how losing Amar’e will kill the Knicks, remember that back and forth?

      and Lin sucks, are you really still arguing that? seriously Patrick Beverley looks a lot better, not to mention about 50 other PGs in the league.

      and being a top 10 offensive player is great, but being a sieve defensively in conjunction with that means you’re a third guy ideally.

      Lin’s an average PG who stands to improve. The Knicks have no chance to contend for a title without Amar’e producing for them.

    28. jon abbey

      to be fair, OKC looked super focused and motivated last night, HOU will almost certainly have their moments in the series.

    29. jon abbey

      flossy: The Knicks have no chance to contend for a title without Amar’e producing for them.

      well, we’ll see. they are currently 6-0 against their four most likely opponents (BOS, IND, MIA, OKC) since he went down.

      if Chandler is healthy and Woodson wants to keep playing Melo at the 4, there are very few minutes available for Amar’e if and when he returns, although Woodson did say he would be in the rotation if he become available.

    30. flossy

      flossy: Melo’s career playoff record is now what, again?9-30-something?Harden’s got a lot of losing to do to match that kind of prolonged playoff suckitude.

      Sorry, just looked it up, 17-36 after Saturday. He’ll still have a losing career playoff record even if the Knicks win it all this year. But yeah, one playoff loss against a top seed in the West and I guess Harden should head back to the bench lol

    31. er

      flossy: Sorry, just looked it up, 17-36 after Saturday. He’ll still have a losing career playoff record even if the Knicks win it all this year. But yeah, one playoff loss against a top seed in the West and I guess Harden should head back to the bench lol

      i agree with you………i was just saying that melo was in the same position as a 1st and second year player.

    32. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      jon abbey: THCJ, a sixth man’s role is almost always purely scoring

      What are you talking about? Total and utter nonsense.

      Are you saying that the Sixth Man award is about pure scoring? Because if so, you’d know that the winners need to be all about volume scoring (at any efficiency) AND play on a good team.

    33. jon abbey

      actually I asked you really specifically who your sixth man of the year candidates for this season would be if not Smith and Crawford.

    34. Juany8

      mokers:
      It was exciting watching Lin last year. People who never ever asked me about the Knicks started asking me questions about the team. Definitely helped lift the spirits of a fanbase looking for something to cheer for. At least he wasn’t good enough to save D’Antoni’s job!

      I do think that it is clear that Lin is a basketball work in progress and he was released mainly for basketball reasons. Lin’s style would have crippled this team as we depend on floor spacing and limiting turnovers, the two things that he arguable needs the most work on.

      Juany, how do like what McHale is doing? I know Houston is a fun team to watch. Is there any chance they get better enough defensively to be a contender in the West in the next couple of years? What would your FA targets be.

      Asik and harden will continue to improve, and Lin and parsons should round out into solid starters at their position. That’s going to be a solid, 50 win core right there with the right role players, which Morey is awesome at finding. To get to the level of a serious contender (55 wins ish) they’ll need a power forward who can protect the rim and take some offensive pressure off Harden. I think Harden’s ideal offensive role is as a kind of dual first option, where two guys can coexist taking turns using the ball depending on matchup while the other is devastating off the ball. Harden is already the second best player in the league at attacking an unset defense (Lebron is easily first) but he can be totally shut down in the half court if he has to initiate everything. Even Lebron had to add a post game, pick and rolls aren’t enough to dominate against elite defensive teams. Harden would also benefit a lot from a solid mid range game, right now he has nothing and it can be used against him.

    35. Frank

      jon abbey: I have actually. I think Asik and Parsons deserve more credit than they get for the mild success that Houston has had. Harden is obviously their best player, but he is closer to JR Smith than he is to Melo IMO.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: You mean like how WP48 says that Parsons and Asik deserve a ton of credit for that team’s success? Yeah, like how WP48 says.

      It’s interesting if you look at the on/off numbers:

      Harden on-court: O-PPP = 1.10, D-PPP= 1.08 (net +0.02 PPP)
      Harden off-court: O-PPP = 1.09, D=PPP = 1.04 (net + 0.05 PPP)
      So Harden’s on/off court is a net MINUS 0.03

      One man on/off is tough to trust though, so let’s look at Asik, Harden, and Parsons since that’s who we’re talking about:

      Three on or Three off:
      +Harden + Asik + Parsons = O-PPP 1.08, D-PPP= 1.04 (net + 0.04)
      None of the three on floor = O-PPP 1.10, D-PPP = 1.08 (net + 0.02)

      Two on but one off:
      Harden+Asik, no Parsons = O-PPP 1.15, D-PPP = 1.08 (net +0.07)
      Harden+Parsons, no Asik = O-PPP 1.13, D-PPP= 1.14 (net -0.01)
      Asik+Parsons, no Harden = O-PPP 1.09, D-PPP= 0.94 (net +0.15)

      last combos: 1 on 2 off:

      Harden but no Asik/Parsons = O-PPP 1.14, D-PPP = 1.15 (net -0.01)
      Asik but no Harden/Parsons = O-PPP 1.14, D-PPP = 1.04 (net +0.10)
      Parsons but no Asik/Harden = O-PPP 1.05, D-PPP = 1.10 (net -0.05)

      What stands out here is that Asik is basically invaluable – any grouping without him is basically a neg net PPP. The other thing that seems to stand out are that while Harden is definitely a net positive on offense, his defensive horribleness outweighs his offensive greatness — which is impressive since he really does have offensive greatness.

      Parsons looks very much like a secondary/tertiary player.

    36. Nick C.

      Hahah this board, not just Jon, is classic. Yesterday when the topic was “the Nets are for real” after the ass kicking of Chicago and the Knicks are a popular meme was people have “short term memory”. Not some pet bashees on this board Lin and Harden have crap games or team results and “they suck” “can’t carry a team”. The internet is a wonderful funny place.

    37. mokers

      Juany8: Asik and harden will continue to improve, and Lin and parsons should round out into solid starters at their position. That’s going to be a solid, 50 win core right there with the right role players, which Morey is awesome at finding. To get to the level of a serious contender (55 wins ish) they’ll need a power forward who can protect the rim and take some offensive pressure off Harden. I think Harden’s ideal offensive role is as a kind of dual first option, where two guys can coexist taking turns using the ball depending on matchup while the other is devastating off the ball. Harden is already the second best player in the league at attacking an unset defense (Lebron is easily first) but he can be totally shut down in the half court if he has to initiate everything. Even Lebron had to add a post game, pick and rolls aren’t enough to dominate against elite defensive teams. Harden would also benefit a lot from a solid mid range game, right now he has nothing and it can be used against him.

      Thanks. The only team I really follow besides the knicks is the local team (Warriors). I’ve really liked what the warriors did with Monta Ellis trade as I like the Curry / Thompson backcourt. I also like Bogut, but he didn’t have enough games to be integrated into their offense. Barnes appears to be decent and will improve, but their cap situation is not great and I am not sure where they will be since I suspect Jarrett Jack to leave. Then again, they will get Brandon Rush back, so maybe they won’t actually lose that much on the offensive end.

    38. jon abbey

      Nick C.:
      Hahah this board, not just Jon,is classic. Yesterday when the topic was “the Nets are for real” after the ass kicking of Chicago and the Knicks are a popular meme was people have “short term memory”. Not some pet bashees on this board Lin and Harden have crap games or team results and “they suck” “can’t carry a team”. The internet is a wonderful funny place.

      I’ve been really consistent with this actually, but last night was an extreme example. I’ve also thought the Nets were for real (meaning dangerous if they all click) all season long.

      and Harden backers should check out Frank’s data/conclusions above, let me just repeat for you:

      “The other thing that seems to stand out are that while Harden is definitely a net positive on offense, his defensive horribleness outweighs his offensive greatness — which is impressive since he really does have offensive greatness.”

    39. Frank

      jon abbey: I’ve been really consistent with this actually, but last night was an extreme example. I’ve also thought the Nets were for real (meaning dangerous if they all click) all season long.

      and Harden backers should check out Frank’s data/conclusions above, let me just repeat for you:

      “The other thing that seems to stand out are that while Harden is definitely a net positive on offense, his defensive horribleness outweighs his offensive greatness — which is impressive since he really does have offensive greatness.”

      I got my #s from nbawowy, but 82games basically says the same thing about his net +/- (one man) –> -3 points/100 possessions.

      What’s interesting is that it doesn’t seem to be Harden’s man that is killing them on D when he’s on the floor — his PER-against is only 14.6. It must be his team/help D that is just horrific. I don’t watch the Rockets — Juany any thoughts?

    40. Nick C.

      Jon, Franks points came out while I was typing. I just found it funny how one game matters depending upon whether it supports your POV. On Lin I’ll admit you were harping on his TOs and less wowed than the rest of us during the height of Linsanity.
      Even with our team sometimes it’s they have so many weapons or it was (even sans Amare) and now its “if Melo or sux we’re pretty much doomed.”

    41. Frank

      jon abbey: I’ve also thought the Nets were for real (meaning dangerous if they all click) all season long.

      Yeah the Nets with a healthy Deron Williams are a totally different team. They were 19-11 (0.633) post-ASB and 30-22 (0.576) pre-ASB. And FWIW, they got blown out by Miami every time they played this year, but that was all pre-ASB with gimpy Deron. I still think Chicago might win this series in 6 or 7 but I wouldn’t count out the possibility that the Nets could stretch Miami to 6 games. I think they have zero chance to upset Miami though.

    42. Juany8

      Nick C.:
      Hahah this board, not just Jon,is classic. Yesterday when the topic was “the Nets are for real” after the ass kicking of Chicago and the Knicks are a popular meme was people have “short term memory”. Not some pet bashees on this board Lin and Harden have crap games or team results and “they suck” “can’t carry a team”. The internet is a wonderful funny place.

      The problem is I’m not looking at the result of the game but at how they actually played. What I saw was Lin looking like he didnt belong in the court and harden only being able to score with any kind of consistency when the thunder’s defense wasn’t set. I didn’t watch the bulls game so can’t comment in that, but it does seem like the bulls could stand to just play better defense, they were supposed to be a lot more evenly matched up with the nets than the rockets were with the thunder.

      On the other hand, when people were saying That “bad” JR showed up against the celtics, they were vastly overreacting to the fact that he was missing some wide open 3′s. the team WANTS him taking wide open 3′s, you can be upset that he missed them but you can’t call him dumb for taking good shots. They just don’t fall sometimes, even for the best shooters.

    43. Juany8

      Frank: I got my #s from nbawowy, but 82games basically says the same thing about his net +/- (one man) –> -3 points/100 possessions.

      What’s interesting is that it doesn’t seem to be Harden’s man that is killing them on D when he’s on the floor — his PER-against is only 14.6.It must be his team/help D that is just horrific. I don’t watch the Rockets — Juany any thoughts?

      Everyone but asik sucks at help defense. Also per against doesn’t take into account that shooting guards are generally the weakest position, so you would have to adjust for the fact that it’s not impressive to hold Jason Kidd to a low PER. But yea when everyone sucks at defense you tend to get evenly dispersed efficient scoring, lots of layups and open 3′s.

      For instance, if harden is guarding wade, and the heat post wade up to take advantage, parsons/random crappy PF will send an awful double team and shane battier will rush to take the open space. Even if someone gets back to him, harden and the helper are now just flailing around on defense (parsons with more intensity than Harden) so battier bounces it around the perimeter to find the open 3 point shot. In this scenario wade and even battier get little to no credit in terms of PER, but the weakness started with Harden. But really every starter but asik is totally undisciplined on defense, and parsons is the only one with the athletic talent to at least make him passable

    44. Nick C.

      Anyone buying that Tyson just needed to get his wind back as he says (paraphrase). I certainly hope that is all it was with him because Kidd and K-Mart are not going to look like New Jersey Nets circa 2002, or whenever that was, every night.

    45. thenamestsam

      Nick C.:
      Anyone buying that Tyson just needed to get his wind back as he says (paraphrase). I certainly hope that is all it was with him because Kidd and K-Mart are not going to look like New Jersey Nets circa 2002, or whenever that was, every night.

      I’d be more hopeful if I could remember any game since like December where we saw awesome destructo-Tyson. I guess he had that string of 20 rebound games in February that was pretty awesome, but we really haven’t seen him at his alley-oop slamming, affecting every shot, tip out after tip out best much in at least the last few months.

    46. jon abbey

      didn’t Chandler play really well in that OKC win? that is just from memory, maybe I’m wrong.

      Lin last night looked like he did in that game last year where Miami abused him, just really overmatched. admittedly Westbrook is a really tough matchup, but Beverley looked a lot better.

    47. DRed

      82 games has Novak with the best on/off numbers on the knicks. I think you have to take that info with a big dose of salt

      Frank: I got my #s from nbawowy, but 82games basically says the same thing about his net +/- (one man) –> -3 points/100 possessions.

      What’s interesting is that it doesn’t seem to be Harden’s man that is killing them on D when he’s on the floor — his PER-against is only 14.6.It must be his team/help D that is just horrific. I don’t watch the Rockets — Juany any thoughts?

    48. Frank

      DRed:
      82 games has Novak with the best on/off numbers on the knicks. I think you have to take that info with a big dose of salt

      right — i noted that in my original post that one man on/off is not that useful — which is why i expanded to 3 man on/off in the Harden post.

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