Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, August 30, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Friday, Jan 27 2012)

  • [New York Post] Reeling Knicks gear for red-hot Miami (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 06:13:17 -0500)
    MIAMI â?? LeBron James always brings out the best in Carmelo Anthony, ever since their high-school wars.
    The Knicks haven’t seen the best of Anthony in a while. Nobody needs a good-feel night worse than the sore-wristed, sore-ankled, sore-thumbed Anthony. His disastrous shooting slump is the chief cause of the…

  • [New York Post] Heat’s LeBron: Knicks need time to gel (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 04:13:48 -0500)
    MIAMI â?? LeBron James compared the Miami Dream Team’s slow start last season to the Knicks’ current malaise, but stopped short of calling them contenders for the Eastern Conference title.
    “It takes time,” James said Wednesday night from Detroit. “It’s never going to work right overnight, and we were…

  • [New York Post] Knicks’ season still has a long way to go (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 01:31:14 -0500)
    In 1982-83, Bernard King’s first season with the Knicks, the team lost its first seven games.
    So, the Brooklyn native has no problem relating to the slow start of this Knicks team, which is 7-11 heading into tonight’s game with the Heat.
    “But the difference is the expectations…

  • [New York Daily News] Van Gundy: Melo, Amar’e must jell (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 04:51:42 GMT)
    MIAMI â?? Carmelo Anthony forced LeBron James left and directly into Amar’e Stoudemire’s path. The signature moment of the Melo and Amar’e marriage, coincidentally enough, occurred on the defensive end of the court when Stoudemire preserved a victory over the Miami Heat 11 months ago by devouring Le-Bron’s layup.

  • [New York Daily News] LeBron sees Melo, Stoudemire and Knicks lack Heat (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 04:25:38 GMT)
    LeBron James had the same reaction a lot of Knick fans probably had when he found out that Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire couldn’t beat the lowly Cleveland Cavaliers the other night.

  • [New York Times] Celtics Erase 27-Point Deficit, Beat Magic, 91-83 (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 05:15:40 GMT)
    Paul Pierce had 24 points and 10 assists, and E’Twaun Moore added 16 points to help the Boston Celtics erase a 27-point deficit and beat the Orlando Magic.

  • [New York Times] Magic Tricked by Big Celtics Fightback (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:47:15 GMT)
    The Boston Celtics overcame a 27-point deficit with a remarkable second-half rally to stun the Orlando Magic 91-83 at the Amway Center on Thursday, inflicting a second defeat on the hosts in less than a week.

  • [New York Times] Japanese Pitcher Kuroda Joins Yankees (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:35:36 GMT)
    Japanese pitcher Hiroki Kuroda has signed a one-year deal with the New York Yankees after the free agent parted company with the Los Angeles Dodgers, the Yankees said Thursday.

  • [New York Times] Clippers Hold Off Grizzlies for Bounce-Back Win (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 06:46:02 GMT)
    Blake Griffin scored 20 points, Chris Paul added 18 points and seven assists in his second game back from injury, and the first-place Los Angeles Clippers hung on in the fourth quarter for a 98-91 victory over the Memphis Grizzlies on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Early Indicators Point to Stellar Season for 76ers (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 03:26:22 GMT)
    Philadelphia has benefited from playing the N.B.A.’s third-easiest schedule, but most of its wins have been by significant margins.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Can the Blazers Keep All the Pieces? (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:00:01 GMT)
    Portland has a fast, balanced team this season, but Batum, Wallace, Felton and Camby could all depart.

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: For the Knicks, a Delusion of Equality in Triplicate (Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:00:24 GMT)
    A Knicks victory over the Miami Heat last season, five days after the acquisition of Carmelo Anthony, was only an illusion of equality between the teams and their stars.

  • 64 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Friday, Jan 27 2012)

    1. Nick C.

      What’s the latest on Baron Davis? Has Lazarus Bibby laid hands on him or do we have to wait another week before the ‘we need a PG’ ‘wait until Davis comes’ ‘he’s washed up’ ‘he has the most valuable assists in the NBA and a 39 Ast%’ can be put to the test (or to rest).

    2. Matt Smith

      I’d rather give him more time to rehab than rush him out on the court. Dude’s really rusty, which apparently has shown in practice. I don’t blame him. I’d rather have him come back as a decent player than as someone whose injury makes him crumble on the enormous weight of the expectations every Knicks fan has placed on him. I think most KBers would agree he is a bandaid to a gaping wound, but if he’s at least decent we won’t be screaming “Fire D’Antoni! Trade everyone!” after his first game. Although I’ve thought Mikey D should’ve been fired before we even got A’mare, but that’s neither here nor there.

      Anyway, prediction for tonight’s game: we actually win (we have a tendency to only show up against good, no scratch that, ‘celebrity’ teams), and all of New York forgets that we’re an awful team with a ton of problems for the time being (not what we need). We lose to the worst team in the league? Who cares! Remember that one time we beat Lebron?

    3. TDM

      I’m hoping the Knicks get blown out. I’d like to see some more of Lin and apparently that is the only time MDA will give him burn. Lin is the only penetrating guard on the roster, and while its true he was playing against scrubs the other night, I thought he showed something this team really needs. It reminds me of the way Spree used to play in a sense. Slash to the basket, draw the double or triple, and dish out to the open guy for an open look.

    4. Eternal OptiKnist

      I too would like to see Lin play a bit more, can he really be worse than Toney The Tigress right now? And please…enough with Baron Davis, I’m so tired of hearing about him.

    5. TDM

      Eternal OptiKnist: I too would like to see Lin play a bit more, can he really be worse than Toney The Tigress right now?

      You are being rhetorical, right? Of course Lin couldn’t be any worse. Forget Mike Bibby, Henry Bibby would be an upgrade to TD right now. His turnovers have doubled since last season, his shooting percentages have plummeted, meanwhile he’s carrying a bigger offensive load when he is on the floor. In a word, he is a disaster. The swagger that he displayed last season is long gone.

    6. Eternal OptiKnist

      TDM: You are being rhetorical, right?

      I’m saying i agree with you, if nothing else is working at PG, might as well trot Lin out there.

    7. Juany8

      Toney Douglas has a .401 TS%. That would be by far the worst in history for a player with a usage rate over 25%, which I take to mean Toney Douglas is in the running for single worst player in the NBA that gets minutes and shots, and he’s also our worst defender (I can honestly say I’ve seen people in a rec center who player smarter defense than Douglas). Landry Fields is shooting 20.9% 3FG%, which is insane when you consider he only takes wide open 3′s that the defense leaves him open to shoot. I don’ care how many uncontested drives to the basket he’s capable of making, this team needs him shooting 3′s and playing D, neither of which he seems capable of doing. Even if everyone’s wildest dreams came true about Melo and Stoudemire, if the Knicks are playing those 2 guards like they are key rotation players, they are going to be terrible for the next 4 years, there are lottery teams that wouldn’t offer those guy minimum contracts.

    8. Owen

      Juany8 – Yet least year those two guys were 2/3rds of the starting guard rotation for a 500% team.

      They might be the worst guards ever to play in the NBA but I think the odds are against it…

    9. Z

      About the only fun in reading Knicks morning news these days is learning how many different ways one can spell “gel”.

      (oh, and the occasional non-basketball story that gets peppered in there:)

    10. Bruno Almeida

      Owen:

      (Quote

      yet we played 1/4 of the games on the season already and they still suck… Fields has played better as of late, but his defense is still awful, and Toney Douglas might be the worst player in the NBA averaging more than 20 mpg…

      I can’t wait for Baron to come back so we can start him and Shumpert, and banish TD to the end of the bench.

    11. Owen

      Bruno – Fields had a ts% of 45% last week and is now up to 53%. Douglas will come right eventually. It’s still a small sample.

      He wasn’t the worst player in the NBA his first two seasons. He was actually a pretty solidly average player who played good defense, after having been one of the best guards in college by several statistical measures. It doesn’t make sense that he has suddenly reverted to rec league level right when he should be coming into his own.

      What the cause of his underperformance is I don’t know. Rust? Injury? Melo? But look for a big mean reversion….

    12. Owen

      Meanwhile, David Kahn and the Timberwolves are giving Knicks fans some solace. We don’t have the absolute worse ownership and management. What a bunch of boneheads. They had to chance to lock Love down for 5 years and threw it away, while antagonizing him in the process.

    13. TDM

      cgreene: Melo out tonight and tmrw night.

      Potential for a Lin sighting has just gone up . . . So does that mean Jeffries will get the start? Walker should get some additional minutes tonight as well.

    14. d-mar

      cgreene:
      Melo out tonight and tmrw night.

      Thank God, now we’ll finally see some ball movement and get open shots for 3 point marksmen Toney Douglas and Landry Fields.

    15. Bruno Almeida

      Owen:
      Bruno – Fields had a ts% of 45% last week and is now up to 53%. Douglas will come right eventually. It’s still a small sample.

      He wasn’t the worst player in the NBA his first two seasons. He was actually a pretty solidly average player who played good defense, after having been one of the best guards in college by several statistical measures. It doesn’t make sense that he has suddenly reverted to rec league level right when he should be coming into his own.

      What the cause of his underperformance is I don’t know. Rust? Injury? Melo? But look for a big mean reversion….

      I agree, they’ll get better, it’s impossible that they simply forgot how to play… but on a compressed schedule, there’s no time to keep waiting for a player to turn it around, if they can’t get it done, they need to play less minutes… try Lin, Bibby, whoever, but Douglas needs to sit.

      if the Wolves had a decent GM, they could have a starting lineup of Ricky Rubio / Ty Lawson / Michael Beasley / Kevin Love / Greg Monroe…

      that’s a playoff team with HUGE upside at least, David Kahn is very, very stupid.

      and I won’t even comment Love’s extension, that’s a botched negotiation if I’ve ever seen one.

    16. Juany8

      The Timberwolves had a chance to lock up their potential star and didn’t, and they’ve bombed about 4 top 10 picks in the last few years. David Kahn is just a sports troll guys, there’s not way anyone seriously drafted Rubio and Flynn back to back without intending it to be a joke… right?

    17. Juany8

      Also if Melo is out, we’re losing by 20+, and that includes being down by 30 at some point before Miami puts in it’s scrubs. This team is 14 points worse per 100 possessions with Melo out of the lineup (either on the bench or injured). With Melo on the floor, we go from a potential 45-50 win lineup (82 game season) to just about the worst team in the league. Melo might not be a “superstar” but he is having an MVP like impact for the Knicks, mostly because when you only have 1 person on your team that can dribble under pressure he’s automatically your most important player.

    18. d-mar

      Juany8:
      Also if Melo is out, we’re losing by 20+, and that includes being down by 30 at some point before Miami puts in it’s scrubs. This team is 14 points worse per 100 possessions with Melo out of the lineup (either on the bench or injured). With Melo on the floor, we go from a potential 45-50 win lineup (82 game season) to just about the worst team in the league. Melo might not be a “superstar” but he is having an MVP like impact for the Knicks, mostly because when you only have 1 person on your team that can dribble under pressure he’s automatically your most important player.

      Yes, we may lose by 20, but we’ll be losing the right way, with great ball movement and missing wide open 3 pointers.

    19. hoolahoop

      Juany8:
      …With Melo on the floor, we go from a potential 45-50 win lineup (82 game season) to just about the worst team in the league. Melo might not be a “superstar” but he is having an MVP like impact for the Knicks, mostly because when you only have 1 person on your team that can dribble under pressure he’s automatically your most important player.

      For your sake, I hope you’re trying to be satirical?

    20. PC

      How excited do you think teams are to play the Knicks? They know they have to exert minimal effort on defense and they’re going to get wide open looks, mismatches after EVERY pick and roll, and anyone who is being guarded by Amare has a free lane to the hoop whenever they so choose.

      What a joke this season has become.

    21. hoolahoop

      d-mar: Yes, we may lose by 20, but we’ll be losing the right way, with great ball movement and missing wide open 3 pointers.

      Is it better losing by 20 with your “superstar” in the game going 1-on-1 every play, refusing to pass to his teammates?

    22. Matt Smith

      d-mar: Yes, we may lose by 20, but we’ll be losing the right way, with great ball movement and missing wide open 3 pointers.

      I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but I actually felt myself nodding in agreement to that last sentence… dear lord, we stink.

    23. hoolahoop

      I was talking to my brother who’s a Heat fan (lives in Miami) and he was telling me that the Heat are truly an unselfish team, always passing the ball to the open man. My reply was that if they didn’t do that they’d look like the knicks.

      It came out as a joke but think how true it is. Imagine if Lebron hogged the ball, took almost every shot no matter how many guys were on him, froze out Wade, and smirked the whole time. They’d suck.

      Now, think of Melo and the Knicks.

    24. Matt Smith

      Hollinger’s PER diem is about the Knicks today. Since I got in trouble for posting it last time, I’ll summarize:

      His theory is that the Knicks’ problems are due to shooting, not passing. Our assist ratio is actually pretty decent – almost exactly the same as Miami’s (and higher than good teams like OKC). The issue is, they’re 1st in 2pt fg% and 8th in 3pt, and we’re 18th and 24th. We and the Heat both run ugly-looking isos for their stars, but their shots land and ours don’t.

      I have to disagree, and I think that’s the trouble with looking up stats in a vacuum. Looking at Miami’s games, the plays run for their stars still are set up by good ball movement (I don’t see nearly as many isos without off ball movement on Miami), while we rely on ours because we have no other options. Obviously, their shots will fall more because they take higher quality attempts, even if an assist isn’t credited. The defense has to react to the fact that Lebron or Wade will pass to an open player for the corner 3 (making it easier for LBJ/Wade to score), whereas against us they can put two hands in Melo’s face without worry. I don’t think it’s fair to analyze our assist ratio and say passing/ball movement/off-ball movement is our issue.

    25. flossy

      Juany8: he is having an MVP like impact for the Knicks

      He isn’t even shooting 40%!! His +/- impact on the team can be summed up as such: the Knicks traded away *all* of their depth to acquire him and pay him as much as possible. So, yeah… when you trade an entire team’s worth of players for one player, your team team is going to be worse when that player doesn’t play. Duh. To say that he is having an MVP-like impact is just… wow.

    26. d-mar

      Can we please please stop with the “if we would just move the ball and Melo would stop hogging it, all our problems would be solved”? We were 3-20 from 3 pt. range and the Cavs were 9-20. That’s a difference of 18 points, and that’s why we lost. Period. Our shots were just as open as theirs, we just threw up bricks and they didn’t. It had nothing to do with lack of ball movement or our star being selfish. Enough already.

    27. Z

      d-mar: Thank God, now we’ll finally see some ball movement and get open shots for 3 point marksmen Toney Douglas and Landry Fields.

      Or better yet, Gallinari.

      Wait… Melo’s not playing because he’s hurt?! Damn, I thought we’d just woken up to find it was all just a dream…

    28. Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin)

      The problem with the Kevin Love stuff is that the Wolves are bound by the NBA’s new “you can only extend one of your players for five years” rule.

      Therefore, they did not want to lock up Love while not being able to lock up Rubio when the time comes to do so.

      In addition, the way this works, when Love is finished with his contract, he can re-sign with the Wolves for five years and they can extend Rubio for five years. They just couldn’t extend both Love and Rubio for five years.

      So I totally understand the logic behind the move. It is not good if the move pissed Love off, as that is a sign of poor communication, but the move itself is not a bad idea and it actually should result in Love getting more money than had he been given the five-year extension.

    29. max fisher-cohen

      The Beck article (the last one on the list) pretty much echoes everything people on here have been saying. He’s highly critical of Dolan, essentially blaming him for the last ten years of struggle, which is the first time I’ve heard that kind of directness Beck.

    30. d-mar

      And btw, regarding my earlier post, I’m not saying Melo is having an MVP season by any stretch, he’s been awful lately and obviously his injuries are part of that. But to just keep blaming him over and over for our problems when we have no production night after night from our guards is just not fair.

    31. hoolahoop

      Matt Smith: Hollinger’s PER diem is about the Knicks today. Since I got in trouble for posting it last time, I’ll summarize:

      His theory is that the Knicks’ problems are due to shooting, not passing. Our assist ratio is actually pretty decent – almost exactly the same as Miami’s (and higher than good teams like OKC). The issue is, they’re 1st in 2pt fg% and 8th in 3pt, and we’re 18th and 24th. We and the Heat both run ugly-looking isos for their stars, but their shots land and ours don’t.

      This guy, obviously, is not watching the games, and analyzing through spreadsheets. This is a perfect example of misguided analysis bases on limited, or perhaps erroneous, statistics.

    32. hoolahoop

      Juany8: With Melo Melo might not be a “superstar” but he is having an MVP like impact for the Knicks,

      Beware of hackers breaking into our KB accounts and making boneheaded statements using our screen names.

      Juany, contact the internet police immediately.

    33. Bruno Almeida

      Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin):
      The problem with the Kevin Love stuff is that the Wolves are bound by the NBA’s new “you can only extend one of your players for five years” rule.

      Therefore, they did not want to lock up Love while not being able to lock up Rubio when the time comes to do so.

      In addition, the way this works, when Love is finished with his contract, he can re-sign with the Wolves for five years and they can extend Rubio for five years. They just couldn’t extend both Love and Rubio for five years.

      So I totally understand the logic behind the move. It is not good if the move pissed Love off, as that is a sign of poor communication, but the move itself is not a bad idea and it actually should result in Love getting more money than had he been given the five-year extension.

      I get that, but when you are a sorry franchise like the Wolves, where few players want to commit long term, and you have a clear cut superstar who wants to resign 5 years on your team, I think you have to do it…

      I understand wanting to keep flexibility and, in the end, it might be even better financially for Love, but they have no idea what will happen with Rubio yet… he’s looked pretty good, but Love has every right to question a move that saves the 5-year extension to use on a guy who played 18 games with this team instead of him, a proven all-star caliber guy.

    34. Richmond County

      This feels weird to say, but tonight we’re really going to miss Melo’s defense. He really digs in against LBJ. I’m sorry for the traditional statistics, but Lebron’s FG%, 3FG%, and points scored are slightly lower than average while turnovers are up when matched up against Melo’s team in games in which they both played over the course of their careers. Not necessarily a huge decline in stats, but enough to indicate Melo at least bothers him. Melo’s team is also 9-4 against Lebron’s team for whatever that is worth.

      http://bkref.com/tiny/7sdYp

    35. hoolahoop

      d-mar:
      Can we please please stop with the “if we would just move the ball and Melo would stop hogging it, all our problems would be solved”? We were 3-20 from 3 pt. range and the Cavs were 9-20. That’s a difference of 18 points, and that’s why we lost. Period. Our shots were just as open as theirs, we just threw up bricks and they didn’t. It had nothing to do with lack of ball movement or our star being selfish. Enough already.

      One surgeon said to the other, stop saying the problem is a clogged trachea. It’s clear the problem is he’s not breathing.

    36. Matt Smith

      @Hoola

      Agreed. That’s my biggest problem with Hollinger, he gets way too mired in stats without looking at context.

      I wouldn’t say basketball isn’t a game of stats, but because there are so many variables (theoretically, all 10 people on the court can have a separate effect on every stat) that it’s difficult to come up with anything comprehensive. All stats in basketball, unlike baseball, need to be heavily qualified (even advanced ones). That’s not to say at all that they’re not useful, but they absolutely need to be put in context.

      It’s a shame too, because Hollinger actually has some great basketball instincts, and I think a lot of his ‘eye-test’ analysis is spot-on, probably because he enhances it so much with his knowledge of particular stats.

    37. Matt Smith

      Sorry for the double post, but another great point by a commentator on the Hollinger post: a lot of the Heat’s points are from the fast break, where they’re less likely to be assisted and more likely to go in.

    38. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      hoolahoop: Beware of hackers breaking into our KB accounts and making boneheaded statements using our screen names.

      Juany, contact the internet police immediately.

      No, you just don’t understand stats the way that expert #1 Juany8 does. You know, the guy who says that the scientific process is essentially, “Form hypothesis through eye test. Find statistical model to test hypothesis. If the model doesn’t match the eye test, your model is wrong.”

      /sarcasm

    39. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Matt Smith:
      @Hoola

      Agreed. That’s my biggest problem with Hollinger, he gets way too mired in stats without looking at context.

      I wouldn’t say basketball isn’t a game of stats, but because there are so many variables (theoretically, all 10 people on the court can have a separate effect on every stat) that it’s difficult to come up with anything comprehensive. All stats in basketball, unlike baseball, need to be heavily qualified (even advanced ones). That’s not to say at all that they’re not useful, but they absolutely need to be put in context.

      It’s a shame too, because Hollinger actually has some great basketball instincts, and I think a lot of his ‘eye-test’ analysis is spot-on, probably because he enhances it so much with his knowledge of particular stats.

      Assist rate is not part of the four factors. If a team shoots well, it doesn’t matter whether the shots are being assisted or not. All that matters is shooting efficiency, in that case.

      Of course, a high assist rate could lead to better shooting efficiency, but it really doesn’t matter at all if the team shoots well.

    40. tastycakes

      What the hell are you people talking about?

      The Wolves SIGNED Love to an extension. Who said he was “upset” with his puny 60 million deal? If he’s unhappy in Minny, he can opt out in 3 years. If he’s not, he can land a 5 year max deal while he’s in his prime. It’s a win-win, and unlike an idiot franchise like the Knicks, the Wolves managed NOT to negotiate against themselves.

      Kahn has made some uber-questionable moves over the years (especially in the draft, see also Michael Beasley and Darko Milicic), but he also stockpiled picks and has struck gold with two budding superstars on his team. He has a quality coach in Adelman and that team could conceivably make the playoffs THIS YEAR.

      Would rather be a Wolves fan than a Knicks fan right now. They have a point guard who plays beautiful basketball, and they have room to improve.

    41. iserp

      Hollinger has a point that if all those 3 pointers went in, nobody would be complaining about NY’s ball movement.

    42. Owen

      Brian – Very interesting comment on the Wolves there, hadn’t heard that angle.

      Also, never mind Kareem, how about Dikembe? Smuggling gold for warlords? Did not see that coming….

    43. Frank O.

      I’m not a D’Antoni hater, nor am I an apologist.
      In the case of Melo, D’Antoni should have made the call to shut him down several games ago when it was apparent he was not playing nearly as well as he could. The Knicks suffered through several games, terrible losses, with Melo limping around. Now they will have to wait a period of time before he is healthy enough to go.
      Meanwhile, team confidence – not to mention Melo’s – is trashed.
      You know, baseball managers make decisions to hold out hurt players all the time. In this case, Mike D. needed to see something was off.

    44. Bruno Almeida

      tastycakes:
      What the hell are you people talking about?

      The Wolves SIGNED Love to an extension.Who said he was “upset” with his puny 60 million deal?If he’s unhappy in Minny, he can opt out in 3 years.If he’s not, he can land a 5 year max deal while he’s in his prime.It’s a win-win, and unlike an idiot franchise like the Knicks, the Wolves managed NOT to negotiate against themselves.

      Kahn has made some uber-questionable moves over the years (especially in the draft, see also Michael Beasley and Darko Milicic), but he also stockpiled picks and has struck gold with two budding superstars on his team.He has a quality coach in Adelman and that team could conceivably make the playoffs THIS YEAR.

      Would rather be a Wolves fan than a Knicks fan right now.They have a point guard who plays beautiful basketball, and they have room to improve.

      Love said he pushed for a player option on the 4th year because he wanted a 5th year, and Minnesota refused… so he could be happier, and we’ve seen what can happen with those 3-year extensions with Bosh, LeBron and Wade…

    45. Owen

      “It’s a win-win, and unlike an idiot franchise like the Knicks, the Wolves managed NOT to negotiate against themselves.”

      Brian’s post made a lot of sense. But normally you would rather lock an mvp caliber player up for 5 years at 16 per than 3 at 15 per right? Not sure I see your logic….

    46. Juany8

      I totally messed up earlier, I should have clarified that I meant he’s by far the most important player on our team purely because of his skill set (dribbling is kind of important when running a pick and roll), I honestly didn’t mean he’s even close to MVP contention, or will be at any point this season. Just that this team is totally broken without him, mostly because the front office gave the Knicks the most awful players 4-9 in the league. Maybe he shouldn’t be payed a max contract or make all star teams or whatever, but who else can actually handle the ball on this team? Freaking Mo Williams would have an enormous impact on this team, even with Melo out.

    47. Juany8

      Also for the statistical point I made earlier, here’s a link to the 82games.com page and the on/off +/- numbers for the Knicks. Looking around a few teams, the Lakers in particular have similar problems to ours, that they’re a pretty good team with Kobe in the lineup, ball hogging and all, and a horrendous team when he’s off the court. He’s also the only person on that team that can realistically dribble under pressure, so the team utterly collapses without him, and their role players also have a fascinating inability to hit 3′s.

      http://www.82games.com/1112/1112NYK.HTM

      For comparison, here’s the pages for the Bulls, Lakers, and Heat.

      http://www.82games.com/1112/1112CHI.HTM

      http://www.82games.com/1112/1112LAL.HTM

      http://www.82games.com/1112/1112MIA.HTM

    48. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Or it could be that they’ve spent so much money on their overrated “superstar” that they have no available funds to sign a suitable backup.

      +/- does not correlate with wins.

    49. Juany8

      Those are efficiency differentials per 100 possessions when players are off the court versus when they are off. They aren’t meant to convey any kind of absolute value, just show who’s playing well for a particular team. It’s not about correlating with wins, it’s about doing research on general numbers the players have on and off the court, to try to quantify the impact an individual his having on his team, which again is totally irrelevant with respect to total wins. Lebron is way better than Melo, but his team does well enough with him on the bench, even this season when Wade has been constantly injured. Miami would probably be fine if Lebron missed a few games as long as Wade is healthy. A player who’s more indispensable to their team, like say Dwight Howard or Rajon Rondo, is going to have a massive on/off efficiency differential because the team can’t replace what that player brings. Whatever you think of Melo, he’s essential for this particular team to even be competitive.

      Also yes, the Knicks have no role players, but realistically Miami shouldn’t have role players either because of their big 3 taking up a bunch of cap space (they didn’t give up that much…), but they have acquired excellent pieces to surround the team with, like Battier, Chalmers, Haslem, etc… Knicks have Mike Bibby as their only active “true” point guard. We have Jared Jeffries as our third big man. We still play Toney Douglas. That’s not exactly Melo’s fault, if you swapped Miami’s players 4-9 for the Knicks players, I bet the matchup would seem quite a bit less lopsided, although probably still in Miami’s favor. It’s not Melo’s fault we threw away a bunch of assets to free up cap space for Lebron, for instance.

    50. hoolahoop

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: No, you just don’t understand stats the way that expert #1 Juany8 does. You know, the guy who says that the scientific process is essentially, “Form hypothesis through eye test. Find statistical model to test hypothesis. If the model doesn’t match the eye test, your model is wrong.”

      /sarcasm

      The new basketball metric system
      Gather statistics as you see fit. Regardless of how ridiculous the conclusions you come to may be, stick to the results. Under no circumstances whatsoever, believe what you eyes tell you or use any subjective human determinations.
      /sarcasm

    51. Juany8

      hoolahoop: The new basketball metric system
      Gather statistics as you see fit. Regardless of how ridiculous the conclusions you come to may be, stick to the results. Under no circumstances whatsoever, believe what you eyes tell you or use any subjective human determinations.
      /sarcasm

      +1

      I often disagree with you hoolahoop, but I can at least respect the way you form your opinions and the fact that you don’t feel the need to insult everyone who doesn’t agree with you.

    52. hoolahoop

      Frank O.:
      I’m not a D’Antoni hater, nor am I an apologist.
      In the case of Melo, D’Antoni should have made the call to shut him down several games ago when it was apparent he was not playing nearly as well as he could. The Knicks suffered through several games, terrible losses, with Melo limping around. Now they will have to wait a period of time before he is healthy enough to go.
      Meanwhile, team confidence – not to mention Melo’s – is trashed.
      You know, baseball managers make decisions to hold out hurt players all the time. In this case, Mike D. needed to see something was off.

      Not only that, he often leaves the big guns in during garbage time, even when they’re hampered with injuries. It’s dumbfounding.

    53. hoolahoop

      Juany8:
      I totally messed up earlier, I should have clarified that I meant he’s by far the most important player on our team purely because of his skill set (dribbling is kind of important when running a pick and roll), I honestly didn’t mean he’s even close to MVP contention, or will be at any point this season. Just that this team is totally broken without him, mostly because the front office gave the Knicks the most awful players 4-9 in the league. Maybe he shouldn’t be payed a max contract or make all star teams or whatever, but who else can actually handle the ball on this team? Freaking Mo Williams would have an enormous impact on this team, even with Melo out.

      I’m glad you got your KB account back.

    54. hoolahoop

      Juany8:
      Also for the statistical point I made earlier, here’s a link to the 82games.com page and the on/off +/- numbers for the Knicks. Looking around a few teams, the Lakers in particular have similar problems to ours, that they’re a pretty good team with Kobe in the lineup, ball hogging and all, and a horrendous team when he’s off the court. He’s also the only person on that team that can realistically dribble under pressure, so the team utterly collapses without him, and their role players also have a fascinating inability to hit 3?s.

      http://www.82games.com/1112/1112NYK.HTM

      For comparison, here’s the pages for the Bulls, Lakers, and Heat.

      http://www.82games.com/1112/1112CHI.HTM

      http://www.82games.com/1112/1112LAL.HTM

      http://www.82games.com/1112/1112MIA.HTM

      Another variable to consider – when a team usually plays with a ball hogging, iso player, it’s not like the team can just turn on another system of playing whenever their chucker is on the bench. . . and expect to execute as well as if they were playing that style all the time.
      Anyone who OVER-relies on stats (HCJ) simply does not understand basketball.

    55. Juany8

      Haha yea I realized how bad that sounded afterwards. I might even say Chandler is more valuable overall, mostly because of the scarcity of good centers and the fact that he’s a total game changer on defense, behind only Howard and Omer Asik (seriously watch him he’s the smartest defensive big I’ve ever seen), although I still firmly think you need a player like Melo to win a championship, and that our core 3 is nowhere near as bad as it’s looked so far. If Baron Davis’ biggest impact is that Douglas and Bibby can be put down, we’re gonna be much better when he comes back.

    56. hoolahoop

      Juany8: +1

      I often disagree with you hoolahoop, but I can at least respect the way you form your opinions and the fact that you don’t feel the need to insult everyone who doesn’t agree with you.

      If you’re trying to use psychology to make me act like a better person, it’s working.

    57. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      hoolahoop:
      Anyone who OVER-relies on stats (HCJ) simply does not understand basketball.

      What if I told you I was the coach of a travelling team that has a win percentage of .800 over the last five years?

    58. afrikan_hermis

      Folks, truth is coach D’AnPHONi is happy to have Melo sit out for those 2 games which we gonna lose anyway. This way he gets an excuse for loosing 2 more games which could arguably call for his being fired right away. Wake up guys! I hope he will be wise to stop playing his favorites and give Lin ( THE ONLY point guard with DRIBBLE PENETRATION ) and Jordan ( THE ONLY big man with TURNAROUND FADE AWAY ) on the team. Fields is a natural 7, and Shump is a natural 2 ). When will this coach learn to use players to their best potentialities instead of WASTING big men because they cannot shoot 3s a la Darko, Randolf, Mozgov, and now Jordan ( with a great upside )? I repeat D’AnPHONi IS THE PROBLEM. Fire him NOW!!!

    Comments are closed.